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Host Mikki Paradis, a longtime drywall and paint contractor and licensed North Carolina general contractor, and co-host Jessica Abreu explain the purpose of their Chicks in Construction podcast: sharing construction “shenanigans” and teaching homeowners what’s normal, what’s not, and how to protect themselves. After a personal “chickychat” about Mickey’s severe insomnia and strange social media feeds, they introduce a major construction defect story involving the Del Webb 55+ community developed by Pulte Group outside Las Vegas, where homeowners allege homes are sinking due to issues tied to soil grading and retaining walls. They discuss warning signs beyond typical settling—recurring cracks, separating patios, doors not latching, uneven floors—why homeowners should compare notes with neighbors, and why geotechnical reports, drainage, slopes, and retaining walls matter. They urge asking follow-up questions, documenting everything, and submitting stories at chicksinconstruction.com.
00:00 Meet the Hosts
00:20 Mickey Construction Backstory
03:09 Why This Podcast Exists
05:08 How to Submit Stories
07:06 Jess Homeowner Perspective
07:56 Podcast Style and Chicky Chat
11:12 Sleep Deprivation and Weird Algorithms
19:49 Del Webb Sinking Homes Setup
21:53 Cold Open Retirement Nightmare
24:57 Neighborhood Defects and Red Flags
29:21 Talk to Your Neighbors
30:13 Compare Notes Neighbors
31:21 Settling Versus Movement
33:56 When Cracks Mean Trouble
37:09 Ask Better Followups
40:12 From Facebook To Lawsuits
43:09 Why Soil Matters
46:01 Permits And Soil Tests
49:48 Retaining Wall Red Flags
51:12 Smart Questions Buyers
53:16 Protect Yourself Proactively
56:46 Document And Communicate
01:00:10 Share Stories And Subscribe
01:02:27 Final Wrap And Goodbye
Creators and Guests
Host
Jessica Abreu
As a social media expert, Jessica has a knack for identifying what makes each business unique and translating that into powerful, engaging content that resonates with clients and customers. From crafting tailored strategies and managing accounts to recording on-site content and boosting engagement, Jessica and her team handle it all so their clients can focus on what they do best.
Host
Mikki Paradis
President & CEO at PDI Drywall Inc. Mikki founded her first construction company, PDI Drywall Inc, in 2005 while she was still a student at NC State. After growing PDI into a multimillion dollar company, she has become an accomplished entrepreneur, speaker, and advocate for innovation in business and leadership. With a passion for empowering others, she has built a reputation as a forward-thinking professional dedicated to driving growth and fostering meaningful connections. Known for her dynamic energy and ability to inspire, Mikki is deeply committed to creating positive change in her industry and beyond. Whether through her entrepreneurial ventures or speaking engagements, she consistently challenges the status quo and encourages others to reach their full potential.
What is Chicks in Construction?
You plan your renovation with excitement, trust your contractor, and hope for the best...until things start going sideways. That’s when most homeowners realize they didn’t know what they didn’t know.
From permits that were never pulled to “contractors” who ghost after demo day, the construction world can feel like a maze of hidden costs and shady shortcuts. Too many homeowners end up confused, overwhelmed, and out of a lot of money.
The Chicks in Construction Podcast is here to change that. Hosted by Mikki Paradis, a licensed general contractor with 20+ years of experience, and Jess Abreu, a homeowner turned construction content creator, this show breaks down real renovation horror stories and teaches you how to protect your time, money, and home.
After building a multimillion-dollar drywall business and helping countless homeowners recover from construction nightmares, Mikki is on a mission to make sure you go into your next project informed, not blindsided. And Jess brings the perspective of someone who’s been in your shoes and now knows exactly what questions to ask.
Submit Your Construction Horror Story: https://chicksinconstruction.com/
[00:00:03] Speaker 2: Well, hello, and welcome back to another episode of Chicks in Construction. I'm your host, Mickey Paradise, and this is my amazing co-host...
[00:00:10] Speaker: Hi, I'm Jessica Abreu.
[00:00:12] Speaker 2: And if you're wondering, "Chicks in Construction? What's that about?" Let me tell you. Let me tell you what that's about. So, the s- the story goes like this. I am a contractor. I have owned a drywall and paint construction company for 21 years. Um, I've, we haven't done a backstory in a while, so if you're new here, or if you've been here for a while and you haven't seen the older podcasts where we kind of explain our credentials, I'm giving it to you now.
I'm a drywall contractor. I've been a drywall contractor since I was 22 years old. I started my business when I was a senior at NC State because I realized I would be the world's worst lawyer, which is what I was going to school for, and I did not wanna continue to pay my way through college for an even more useless degree.
So, I decided I was gonna be a drywall contractor. And I know what you're thinking. You're like, "Mickey, you talk all the time about how you can't just wake up one day and decide," and you're right. I didn't just decide like that. I did two summer internships with a drywall company. I realized I could do drywall, but I would absolutely never do it while working for that company, because they were very anti-woman.
They were... They loved that I knew how to use a computer, but they didn't love the fact that I had lady parts, and that was a real problem for them. Hmm. And I was like, okay, so in figuring out what I'm gonna do other than being a lawyer, it wasn't gonna be working for them. 'Cause I, that's how I would need a lawyer, 'cause I probably would end up in jail.
Mm. So-
[00:01:39] Speaker: HR would have a real, real-
[00:01:40] Speaker 2: It'd be a real problem ... real big
[00:01:41] Speaker: file on Mickey.
[00:01:42] Speaker 2: Real big file. It'd be a binder. So, I started my company when I was tw- I was still, still a senior at NC State. I was, it was, like, pre-recession. I was doing, like, a million dollars a year, and then the recession hit and I went from doing a million dollars a year to zero dollars.
Zero. In, in some cases, negative dollars. And transitioned, you know, just learned how to s- do things different. So, that's kinda how I got into multifamily, is because, so the r- the single family residential construction was hit really hard by the recession. Um, but multifamily, which is apartment complexes and, like, senior housing and student housing, they all, um, were booming.
So, I got into multifamily and I've been in that ever since, which, I don't know, y- you guys know when the recession was. I don't r- I don't know how- It doesn't matter ... it was a lot of years ago. So, I've been doing that- For all of those years. Um, I also am a licensed general contractor in the state of North Carolina.
I do not practice being a licensed general contractor in the state of North Carolina 'cause I don't necessarily feel like I have all the skillsets in order to do that. So I have that credential, I have that knowledge, but I, I don't, I don't be out here acting like I know all the things when it comes to building a house.
But what I do know is that part of why I got my general contractor's license was because being in construction for 20-plus years, I heard so many stories from people, from homeowners-
[00:03:20] Speaker: Mm-hmm ...
[00:03:20] Speaker 2: everyday people, of these horrible situations that they experienced when they were dealing with contractors, whether it was renovating their kitchen or it was getting a new roof, or whatever it was.
Just like, I don't know, because I was in the construction space- Mm-hmm ... I would kind of, these stories would just gravitate to me, and they were al- always horrible. Like, just You can't believe this is happening to people. It's so unethical. It's so un- um, realistic to like what's actually happening in construction and how construction acts- actually works.
So I decided, okay, well, I should become a general contractor in order to help people to have better experiences, and then just realized we did a renovation, realized, ooh, no. That's not my life journey. But I still really wanted to help homeowners have better experiences. I still wanted to help homeowners understand like what's normal and what's not normal, and what's okay and what's not okay, and what they can expect, and how they can protect themselves.
And so that's kind of how the podcast came to be. Mm-hmm. When I realized that, yeah, me renovating your kitchen is not the best idea for anybody. But we have this platform. I've owned the trademark on Chicks in Construction for a really long time. I was like, let's just turn it into a podcast. Let's just help homeowners, or potential homeowners- Homeowners, mm-hmm
or just like, you know, people who like, who like the tea. All the tea. Let's just do a little podcast. We'll talk about shenanigans that happen in the construction space. Mm-hmm. And we will educate homeowners on what's normal and what's not normal, um, w- so they can avoid those things happening to them. So this podcast, that's what we do.
We talk about, we, either we share with you stories that we've found online- Mm-hmm ... or homeowners like you, like you right there, watching me right now. You can submit your story. You can go to chicksinconstruction.com. There's a little form. You can fill it out. You can share your story with us, and we will read it and kinda just break it down.
Like, a, I will say, it feels like by the time somebody's writing in to us, they know exactly what went wrong. Mm-hmm. So they kinda pull out the red flags for us. We just highlight them. We'll add a little backstory. We add a little, little context, if you will, to those stories so that you the homeowner, or you the future homeowner, or you somebody who's considering a remodel, or building a custom home, or whatever it is, have a little bit more knowledge going into a situation.
You're armed with a little bit more of a like, "Hey, wait, I saw this on that podcast and they said, 'No, absolutely don't pay a 50% deposit.'" So we just wanna help you have a better experience. The reality is we're all gonna have to bring in tradespeople to our house. Eventually- Mm-hmm ... you're gonna need a new hot water heater.
Eventually you're gonna need a new roof. We, we know it's gonna happen, so we wanna help you to learn how to source those things. We wanna help you know how to negotiate those contracts, know how to look out for certain things that are just like, mm, that's weird.
[00:06:33] Speaker: Yeah. That doesn't seem quite normal.
[00:06:35] Speaker 2: Yeah.
So that's what the podcast does. Now, you might wonder, one, why are they so long? Because we like to talk. And when I say we, I mean me. Jess is just, she's here and she tolerates my shenanigans, and she's here for a good time, but it's mostly me, okay?
[00:06:54] Speaker: I'm here for the tea.
[00:06:55] Speaker 2: She's here for the tea, but she's also, you know, the, don't, don't get it twisted.
She's rolling her eyes just as much as you guys are in the background at my shenanigans.
[00:07:03] Speaker: I
[00:07:04] Speaker 2: would never. Jess brings the homeowner side to this. So Jess does not work in construction, though she does work with a lot of contractors- I do ... in her other job as a social media expert, if you will. So she does work with other contractors, but she is not a contractor.
She's here- Because sometimes I as a contractor make assumptions that people know what certain things mean.
[00:07:30] Speaker: Or what they are
[00:07:31] Speaker 2: or- Or what they are or, like, what is that? So Jess brings you to the table, you the homeowner, front and center. So we're speaking directly to you, we're helping you understand and not...
We're using layman's terms essentially. Mm-hmm. Is, uh, j- and also Jess is a fantastic human and she's a great time, so that's also why she's here.
[00:07:52] Speaker: Bringing
[00:07:52] Speaker 2: the fun. I- All
[00:07:53] Speaker: the fun.
[00:07:54] Speaker 2: All the fun. Literally all of it. I modeled the podcast after m- one of my favorite podcasts, which is My Favorite Murder. I don't know if I've ever told you this specific story.
So I was looking for a new podcast- Mm-hmm ... 'cause my absolute favorite of all time podcast, Revisionist History from Malcolm Gladwell, he stopped making it and I was like, "What am I gonna do with my life without this podcast?" I don't know. "I need this in my life." Hmm. It's a quality, quality podcast, I'm gonna tell you right now.
Um, but he stopped making them and I was like, "Hey, friends. I need a new podcast. Give me sug- some suggestions." And somebody suggested My Favorite Murder and I was like, "Well, that's a little dark. My Favorite Murder? That's weird." "But let me check it out," 'cause you know I like weird stuff. So I turned it on the first time and th- it's Georgia and, oh, I can't remember the other one's name.
I'm sar- I'm sorry. I, I know they're not gonna watch this 'cause they have a lot going on with their life. But if they do, I'm real sorry. That's fine. I know Georgia. So it's two chicks, they're friends, and they f- start the podcast off just, just chatting. Little chicky chat. Chatting about their life. That's where chicky chat came from.
And I know you're like, "I don't care," and here's the thing. We
[00:09:07] Speaker: do.
[00:09:07] Speaker 2: If you don't care, and I, I hate to exclude anybody here, this probably isn't the podcast for you. But l- but, but let me challenge you on this, because when I first turn- tuned into My Favorite Murder and they were just talking about their lives-
[00:09:22] Speaker: Mm-hmm
[00:09:23] Speaker 2: I was like, "Absolutely not. I don't have time for this."
[00:09:25] Speaker: Mm-hmm.
[00:09:26] Speaker 2: Turned it off. Called my friend, I was like, "Why did you recommend it?" She was like, "Mickey, just give it a minute. Give it a minute." Next thing you know I'm hooked. So I'm just saying you might be a little turned off by the copious amounts of chatting that we do in the beginning, and I get it 'cause I've been there.
But also we're a good time.
[00:09:44] Speaker: Yeah. Give a- And if you
[00:09:45] Speaker 2: real- Give us
[00:09:46] Speaker: a minute ... if you really need the info, just zzz. Right. You can
[00:09:50] Speaker 2: always fast-forward. But I'm just- Make us talk a little faster ... I do think we're delightful.
[00:09:55] Speaker: We are.
[00:09:56] Speaker 2: And that's the point is- Let's chat. Let's get to know each other. Mm-hmm. I want you to feel comfortable taking my advice, so I want you to know a little bit about me.
I want you to know what's happening in my life. Al- also, I love to complain about things. I'm not gonna lie. So I li- I would like to frame it in a different way, but the truth is I'm just complaining sometimes, a lot of times about stuff. So there is that. That is, that is a very overly explained explanation of what this podcast is.
But, but we- So now you know. You know the origin story of the podcast. You know what we're trying to do, and now we're gonna do Chitty Chat. Or it's called Chicky Chat. Chicky Chat. Uh, which was named by Nicole. It was funny. We had a... We have a, we have a favorite general renovation, general contractor here in North Carolina.
Her name's Nicole. She owns, um-
[00:10:51] Speaker: The Bath Remodeling Center ...
[00:10:52] Speaker 2: The Bath Remodeling Center. She's fantastic. We had her on the pod- We've had her on a couple times, but the first time we had her on she's like, "You know, you guys are really missing the opportunity to call this Chicky Chat." And I was like, "Oh, my God.
It was right there."
[00:11:04] Speaker: Yeah, it was right there in front of us. And we just, we- We just, whoop.
[00:11:07] Speaker 2: If it was a snake, it would've bit us.
[00:11:08] Speaker: Mm-hmm.
[00:11:09] Speaker 2: So she- Named it ... actually named it Chicky Chat. Um, I want you guys to know, 'cause listen, we're doing this, so I want you to know one thing, which is I have not slept more than, like, two hours a night in almost 30 days.
So if I seem delirious or high, it's not 'cause I'm having a great time- ... and I'm high right now or, or that this is some kind of delicious alcoholic beverage. It's that I- I might be on the cusp of death. I have had no sleep. I do think the body actually needs it.
[00:11:43] Speaker: It does need it. It 100% needs six to eight hours a night.
[00:11:46] Speaker 2: Yeah, she's-
[00:11:46] Speaker: Bare minimum ...
[00:11:47] Speaker 2: she's not doing that. Mm. She's like, "You know what? It's fine. We're just gonna w- we'll get that little hour in, and then we're up. It doesn't matter what I do." I've even tried, we were talking about this before we pressed record, I've y- like, they prescribed me Ambien. It did nothing.
[00:12:06] Speaker: Mm.
[00:12:06] Speaker 2: It... So I don't know what this is, but I'm a little out of it. I will tell you, when you're up for, like, 23 hours a day consistently- Uh-huh ... the algorithm really starts serving you some real weird stuff. So
[00:12:22] Speaker: are you going on your phone when you wake up in the middle of the night?
[00:12:25] Speaker 2: So I will wait, like, two or three hours of, like, just laying there, but then it just gets to this point where you're like, "I, I can't stare at the ceiling one more time."
Like, I can't, I can't spend one more second looking at this ceiling. Mm-hmm. Or c- just keeping my eyes closed hope and a prayer that I'll just fall asleep. Like, I've tried, like, listening to stuff that will make you fall... Just absolutely nothing. So eventually I end up on, on the Instagram, which is where I really do the most damage.
Um, and it has been serving me just the most delightful things. I was trying to keep a... Oh, sorry, Joe. I was trying to keep a list of just the most ridiculous things that Instagram has served me. It started serving me, I know it's not a rock, but it looks like a rock on the outside, rock cutting videos where, like, it looks like a rock, and they put it in a wet saw, and then they crack it open, and it's one of those, like, I don't know-
[00:13:22] Speaker: Gemstones?
[00:13:23] Speaker 2: gemstone things on the inside. And you're just like, "Oh my God." I probably watched an hour worth of those videos. 'Cause every time you're like, "What's it gonna be inside?" Have...
[00:13:33] Speaker: Wait. Have you seen... I don't know what I did- ... to deserve to be served- This
[00:13:39] Speaker 2: algorithm?
[00:13:41] Speaker: So it was on, it was act- it was on TikTok, 'cause I was looking at, I was responding to some comments.
[00:13:47] Speaker 2: Which, screw y'all. Screw all y'all.
[00:13:49] Speaker: Yeah.
[00:13:50] Speaker 2: I will fight you. You will catch these hands. Ah. You will catch these hands.
[00:13:54] Speaker: It's amazing how... Anyway.
[00:13:57] Speaker 2: Thank God I don't have TikTok.
[00:14:00] Speaker: So I went on there to respond to comments and thank the people who had something nice to say- Yeah ... or wanted to share a story and all these things.
And then I was like, "Oh, let me..." 'Cause, like, I don't have my own personal one. Yeah. I'm like, "Oh, let me just scroll."
[00:14:14] Speaker 2: Let me just look. Let me just see.
[00:14:15] Speaker: Let me just see. And it served me a adult, I believe it's a woman, but I'm not entirely 100% sure it's a, a real- Could be AI. Okay ... no, a real wom- like, it could be a man- Oh.
[00:14:25] Speaker 2: Oh, okay ... woman.
[00:14:27] Speaker: But- with baby dolls- What? ... that look like real babies, and she cares for them as though they are real babies.
[00:14:40] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[00:14:41] Speaker: Like, and I was like- Yeah ... "No,
[00:14:43] Speaker 2: wait. Is that-" No, it's a thing.
[00:14:43] Speaker: No,
[00:14:44] Speaker 2: it's a thing.
[00:14:46] Speaker: And I was like, "What is wrong?" And then I- I went to the... I made the-
[00:14:50] Speaker 2: This is so funny that you're-
[00:14:51] Speaker: I made the mistake of going to the page.
Oh, God. And I, God, I didn't watch. Now
[00:14:55] Speaker 2: it's over for you. No.
[00:14:56] Speaker: You
[00:14:56] Speaker 2: clicked on
[00:14:57] Speaker: it? I, I didn't watch anything else. I just looked at how many people have- Yeah ... watched this person take care of-
[00:15:03] Speaker 2: Baby dolls ...
[00:15:03] Speaker: dolls.
[00:15:04] Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. On my- No, that is a whole thing. So my niece, ironically, you bring this up, my niece works at the airport.
[00:15:11] Speaker: Yeah.
[00:15:12] Speaker 2: She was telling me yesterday about how this lady, very, like a very, like older lady, like 56 years old, had a baby doll that looked like a real baby.
[00:15:23] Speaker: Mm-hmm.
[00:15:23] Speaker 2: And she was in the airport with a baby doll and was, like, treating it like a real baby, and when she checks in she says, "I just, um, I'm gonna l- just wanna let you guys know I'm gonna have my infant on my lap."
And Al- Alyssa was like, "This seems like a- Mm ... like a medical issue. I'm not gonna mention- ... the fact that that is not a real baby. I don't know what's happening right now."
[00:15:49] Speaker: I had to take care of a, of a baby doll- ... pretend one when I was in high school- ... for a class where, 'cause I took child development. Yeah. So, like, you had to take it home for a week- Yeah, yeah
and, like, care for it and not kill it. Um, you had this- It's
[00:16:03] Speaker 2: harder than you think.
[00:16:04] Speaker: Oh my God, it would cry, and you had to take the key and put it in its back and hold it. Because if you let it go, it would keep crying. And so, like, you held it until it made a cooing sound.
[00:16:14] Speaker 2: You guys.
[00:16:15] Speaker: And it ha- and it was, you know...
But it looked real, so people thought, like, as-
[00:16:19] Speaker 2: You were a teen mom? ... that I was a teen mom. That's the image we need. See-
[00:16:23] Speaker: Yeah, my parents were real thrilled of going to the restaurant and being like, "No, no, it's a doll." Y-
[00:16:28] Speaker 2: that's how you know you went to a school that had, had some tax dollars, because we, ours, our version of that was a egg shell.
So- Oh,
[00:16:39] Speaker: you didn't have a fat pound bag of sugar? They,
[00:16:40] Speaker 2: they made us hollow out an egg shell, like an egg, get the egg, the egg out of it, and we had to carry it around for a week, and don't crush it or you killed your baby. And I was like, "And that's why I don't have children."
[00:16:56] Speaker: They're not that delicate. If you drop a child, they won't crack.
[00:17:00] Speaker 2: Jess is like, "Don't quote me on that, but..."
[00:17:02] Speaker: Oh, no, you can. They've been dropped. Quotable. Quotable.
[00:17:07] Speaker 2: Yeah, so, um, rocks. Jess is getting women taking care of fake babies. I- Um-
[00:17:14] Speaker: And the guy, have you seen the guy that puts his dogs in pajamas?
[00:17:18] Speaker 2: I do get a lot of dog in pajama. I don't know if it's the same guy, but I get a lot of dog in pajamas.
Oh, he
[00:17:22] Speaker: has, he
[00:17:23] Speaker 2: has
[00:17:23] Speaker: five big, like, Golden Retrievers.
[00:17:26] Speaker 2: Oh, I haven't seen that.
[00:17:27] Speaker: And he, every... I mean, I've seen three of them. And he's like, "All right, guys, we're going to bed." And they all go, they have their own room with bunk beds.
[00:17:35] Speaker 2: Oh my God.
[00:17:36] Speaker: And he has a little- 100% my style ... he has a little doll closet-
[00:17:39] Speaker 2: Stop
[00:17:40] Speaker: with the hanging up. And he puts them all in the, and the dogs are just like, "
[00:17:44] Speaker 2: Mm." They're like, "All right, this is my life now."
[00:17:46] Speaker: And then he goes in, he lays them down. He puts the blanket and a little stuffy for all of them- Stop it ... and he shuts off the light. Now, I don't know if they actually stay in it. My thought is, like, as soon as lights go off, these dogs are getting out of this bed and he's tucking
[00:17:56] Speaker 2: them back into pajamas.
I'm not gonna lie to you. That would be Frankie's dream. Frankie's a little pit bull we sat, found on the side of the road, and he would 100% let me put him in paja- PJs and tuck him in with a little stuffy, and he probably wouldn't move all night long.
[00:18:10] Speaker: I'm like, this guy obviously doesn't have kids, because if you did and you had to wrangle children- He would never
into pajamas, you would never then go put your five dogs into pajamas. Yeah. Or even one dog, you would just not do it.
[00:18:21] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[00:18:21] Speaker: You'd be like, "Peace out. I'm gonna go for my wine."
[00:18:24] Speaker 2: Like, like, "And on that note, I'm going to bed."
[00:18:29] Speaker: At this point in my life, I just get them to bed and I'm like
[00:18:32] Speaker 2: And
[00:18:32] Speaker: I'm out.
[00:18:33] Speaker 2: Yeah, I, I, maybe that's the problem that I need, I need to s- to sleep is to put something to bed.
I'm not sure. I have no idea. I'm just out here- Put Hector
[00:18:44] Speaker: in.
[00:18:45] Speaker 2: I'm just, I'm gonna put Hector in his jammies and tuck him in and go to bed. I don't know. I just know that I can't sleep, my body won't allow it, and I'm low-key delirious, and Instagram is serving me up some very interesting things. One of them this morning was a guy who planted a bunch of...
Or plant, took a potato, put it in a container with some soil, and made more potatoes out of it, and it was some thrilling Instagram reels. I'm like- To watch the development of these potatoes, and the one potato turned into, like, 50 potatoes. And I was like, "What am I doing with my life? I could be growing potatoes."
So that happened. I know.
[00:19:23] Speaker: That's just how things work when you
[00:19:24] Speaker 2: plant them. Listen, I don't know. I don't grow things. I mean, I figure, I don't, I didn't realize one potato could turn into 50 potatoes. I'm not a farmer. I'm a drywall contractor. We've discussed this. So that's our chicky chat. Oh, my God. I'm exhausted, mentally ill, 100%, and, uh, getting some real, real interesting things on the Instagram.
All
[00:19:48] Speaker: right. So, um, we got, we got stories for you today. We
[00:19:52] Speaker 2: got stories for you today. Um, we're starting. Well, so listen, I've, I've changed up the format of our script writing, but this is a, was from our last podcast 'cause we were not able to record all of our episodes that day. So this is our old format, and I feel like you're...
I don't know, you might be able to tell the difference and you might not. But- What was interesting to me about this s- particular story is my Del Webb is a, a senior only community. They're very hot, they're very, they're... All, all the seniors are like, "Let me get in that Del Webb." So they're popping up everywhere, and there's one in Durham that my grandmother lived in.
Hmm. And it was a wild experience.
[00:20:45] Speaker: Did they arri- did they drive around on golf carts- They do drive around on golf carts ... with different colored luffas to tell people what their situation is- ... if you will?
[00:20:54] Speaker 2: Um, my grandmother was in a cult. So, um- So
[00:21:00] Speaker: her luffa was black.
[00:21:01] Speaker 2: Her luffa was black like her soul. I'm just gonna be honest.
She wasn't a great grandmother. Um, but so I don't know about that. There, if there were shenanigans happening, she was keeping it real tight, tight to the chest because she didn't want her fellow cult members to know that she was getting into shenanigans. But it was, it was a real weird experience. So, um, when I saw the story, I was like, "Oh, okay, I know about this."
Mm-hmm. So here we go. Cold open. That's what it says on our script. You don't
[00:21:33] Speaker: have to actually read that
[00:21:34] Speaker 2: part. Just- That's for you. It is for me, but I, I wanna just walk you, well, I want you to be here with us. Jess really wishes I'd stop doing that, but I'm probably not gonna, and I just- She's
[00:21:45] Speaker: never gonna stop
[00:21:46] Speaker 2: I'm never gonna stop- It's fine
'cause I am the whole problem. The whole problem. So cold open. This is my part. So imagine saving your entire life, working for 40 years, finally retiring, which I feel like is never gonna happen for me. I wanna retire now. Buying what you believed will be your forever home in a beautiful 55 plus community.
The moving truck leaves, you hang your family photos, you start making plans for retirement, then you notice a crack in the drywall. Now, listen, I didn't do the drywall in this community, so don't come for me. It's not my fault your drywall's cracking. But in all reality, a drywall crack is not that big of a deal until it becomes a d- bigger problem, which is why we're here.
So a few weeks later after you realize you have a giant crack in your drywall, the patio starts separating from your house, which I have physically seen this with my eyes. Hmm. And it's concerning. Um, then your front door won't close. Your tile on your front door starts cracking. Neighbors start talking. They're seeing the same thing. Then someone says something that changes everything. I don't think our houses are settling. I think they're sinking.
[00:23:04] Speaker: Dun, dun,
[00:23:06] Speaker 2: dun. 100%. Perfect timing, Jess. Today we're talking about one of the most talked about construction defect cases in the country, a neighborhood where dozens of homeowners alleged their homes are sinking due to failures involving soil grading and retaining walls. More importantly, we're going to explain what homeowners can learn before they ever sign a contract to buy
[00:23:35] Speaker: This is supposed to be a retirement dream, but it's probably going to turn into a retirement nightmare. Yeah. So this story hit me differently because these aren't first time- Yeah ... home buyers. These are retirees. So chances are they've bought a home before.
They might have bought- Bought
[00:23:51] Speaker 2: multiple homes ... home. Yeah, yeah.
[00:23:52] Speaker: Yeah.
[00:23:53] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[00:23:53] Speaker: Um, they have spent decades working so they could finally enjoy retirement. Instead, many of them are going to be spending retirement dealing with engineers, lawyers, inspections, and construction problems. And that really does break my heart.
[00:24:12] Speaker 2: Yeah. It's really sad. Mm-hmm. Especially, I feel like so
[00:24:15] Speaker: many- Unless it was my parents and then I'd be like- Yeah ... ha, karma
[00:24:17] Speaker 2: Yeah, like, oh, what goes around comes around, doesn't it, Carol?
She knows who she is. Um, so a- and that's, like, it, I feel like so many of these stories- Not maybe a disproportionate amount, but, like, a notable amount of these stories kinda happen to seniors, and it really... Obviously, in this case, they weren't singled out because they were seniors, where in some cases- Mm-hmm, they are
that we've covered, they are singled out because they're seniors. But it just kinda stinks. It's like, man, does it ever end? And guess, guys, the answer is no. No. It doesn't ever end. Mm-mm. Okay? I'm real sorry about that. So according to reporting and the lawsuit, many of these homeowners purchased homes in the Del Webb community developed by Pulte Group outside of Las Vegas.
Now, Pulte is one of the largest- Mm-hmm ... track home builders. They built the one here as well. Um, there weren't... And they weren't inexpensive homes. That was the most, like, shocking thing for me when I found out how much my grandmother paid for that house. It was, like, over a half a million dollars. And I was like, "In American currency?"
And I mean, I'm talking these are the most cookie cutter, like, copy and paste, copy and paste houses. You c- you... These... Like, you could get lost in this neighborhood. If you didn't have the exact address, if somebody was like, "Look for the blue house," you're never finding it.
[00:25:44] Speaker: Yeah.
[00:25:44] Speaker 2: They're all, like, identical.
[00:25:46] Speaker: So-
[00:25:47] Speaker 2: $500,000 for a copy and paste home.
No.
[00:25:51] Speaker: So my friend Christy lives in a neighborhood around here, and, um
We were going to surprise her for her birthday. Yeah. And this was a couple years ago. So a couple of my friends and I, and, like, we were, we were pretending that we were gonna, like, come kidnap her.
[00:26:06] Speaker 2: Nice. Like that?
[00:26:07] Speaker: Yep. So, um, we had on these jumpsuits.
[00:26:10] Speaker 2: Oh,
[00:26:10] Speaker: okay. Yeah. Like criminal. Like covering up- Okay ... our faces and everything.
And we-
[00:26:14] Speaker 2: Ashy, if you will.
[00:26:15] Speaker: Yes. And we parked in front of her house, and we got out and we went to the door, and we're ringing the doorbell and we're knocking on the door. We're like, "Hey, come out here. Come out." And then I realized- Wrong house ... we were at their neighbor's
[00:26:28] Speaker 2: house. Oh, my
[00:26:29] Speaker: God.
[00:26:31] Speaker 2: We- And that's when I would die- And-
and crawl back into the hole I came out of ...
[00:26:35] Speaker: yep, because they all look exactly-
[00:26:37] Speaker 2: Oh, my- ... the same. Yes. And then- And that is, that is the- That's why we're- ... quintessential Del Webb neighborhood. Like, you better have that address, and you better know how to read numbers because if not, you're going to the wrong house.
[00:26:47] Speaker: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:47] Speaker 2: So many buyers specifically chose the community because the builder's reputation- Mm ... which I'm not sure about that, uh, and the promise of low-maintenance retirement lifestyle, which that is very true. Like, they, they take care of everything for you. They maintain the house, they maintain the yard, which was a whole big thing because you can't, like, plant your own flowers.
Like, you have to just leave everything. It's your- Um- It's your yard, but it's not really your yard. It's HOA's
[00:27:13] Speaker: yard. That's okay. I don't wanna do anything in my yard.
[00:27:15] Speaker 2: And the HOA's like, "Absolutely not." So instead of having- Mm-hmm ... a maintenance-free retirement lifestyle, homeowners allege they began noticing problems including cracks in drywall and stucco, doors and windows that no longer operated properly, patios separating from the homes, driveways cracking, sidewalks shifting, floors becoming uneven, gaps appearing where building components had once fit tightly together.
Which this is, like, a reoccurring theme in several of our last either homeowner horror stories or stories that we've covered, where there's, like, some real structural stuff going on with the house, and they, like, the builder treats it as, "Oh, that's just a warranty issue." And it's like, n- n- something else is going on.
So when your drywall- Mm-hmm ... cracks, sometimes it can just be some re- regular, regular settling. Mm-hmm. But if it's happening consistently and it's happening over and over again, and the problem's getting worse and other systems are involved, so, like, doors aren't closing- Mm-hmm ... and things like that, a lot of times
[00:28:20] Speaker: that means- Yeah, especially the new builds, right?
Exactly. 'Cause that's, it was all new builds that- Yeah ... that was happening at. Those were all new
[00:28:24] Speaker 2: builds. So initially, um, many homeowners thought they simply had, you know, isolated warranty issues. Mm-hmm. But then something happened that completely changed their perspective. They started talking to their neighbor.
[00:28:39] Speaker: Yep. And so when they started talking to the neighbors, they realized that they weren't the only ones. And so- This neighbor says like, "Oh, I have that crack." Yeah. And this neighbor's like, "Oh, my patio is separating from my house." Yeah. And they're like, "Oh, wait a minute. Your front door's not closing? Mine won't either."
And that's when they started to realize that this isn't just one-off-
[00:28:59] Speaker 2: Yeah ...
[00:29:00] Speaker: and it's not just a me issue. It's my house.
[00:29:01] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[00:29:02] Speaker: It's a whole neighborhood issue.
[00:29:04] Speaker 2: Exactly.
Some reported report, um, repeated warranty visits. Owners reported repairs that didn't solve the underlying problem, and eventually groups of homeowners began working together to investigate what was causing the damage.
[00:29:20] Speaker: Mm.
[00:29:21] Speaker 2: So here's red flag numero uno.
Uh, When your neighbor's problems become your problems, which I feel like that doesn't, that could be a lot of things. My neighbor across the street makes her problems my problems all the time. And one of these days I'm gonna show her how I deal with it.
[00:29:38] Speaker: How problematic she can be.
[00:29:39] Speaker 2: Yeah. She's gonna find out.
She ... Mm. This is a thing. We'll talk about this in a different podcast, 'cause we're in the thick of it now. So here's the first less- lesson. If you're experiencing a unusual issue with your home, it is important to talk to your neighbor, and this is gonna be a theme in, like upcoming episodes as well.
[00:30:01] Speaker: Hmm.
[00:30:01] Speaker 2: A lot of people will be afraid to talk to their neighbors, 'cause they just feel like- I don't know.
I did something wrong. I'm, you know, I got duped. I don't wanna, I don't want people to know that I'm having these issues. Mm-hmm. So they won't say anything. But when y- talking to your neighbors is really important, and not because you want to create panic, but because patterns matter. Um, if 10 homes built during the same ph- uh, phase of construction are showing similar damage, that's valuable information.
Construction defects sometimes reveal themselves one home at a time. So if you're not talking, you'll never really know. So comparing notes is really important. So, um, I don't know that that's a red flag. I think it's more of, like, tip number one. Mm-hmm. Talk to your neighbors, especially if you're a new construction home.
Like, um, the house that we bought for our Airbnb is a new construction, and I went to the, a block party, and I was like, "So, what problems are y'all having? Tell, tell me the tea." And I got a little bit of info, and it was good to know. Mm-hmm. It was like, okay, I'm gonna keep an eye out for those things, um, because w- they've lived in, in the neighborhood about six months longer than I have, so they're, they're kind of experiencing it.
There. So I know what to look out for. Hmm. So I'm, I'm big on... Well, most of the time I'm big on talking to your neighbors, but I'm definitely big on getting, in a new construction neighborhood, getting the tea from your neighbors.
[00:31:19] Speaker: Yeah. That's always helpful. And so let's tackle one of the bi- biggest myths, because this is something I've always heard as a homeowner, is that as, when you see a crack, even when I was looking for a home, we would go into homes that were for sale and stuff, and, like, you see a little crack in the wall.
Yeah. And be like, ooh, is that, is that an issue and something? And I'm always told, "Oh, it's just settling."
[00:31:43] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[00:31:44] Speaker: So is it really just settling, or is it, like, movement? Like, what, what is this settling that we're always talking about? Yeah.
[00:31:53] Speaker 2: So, and that, it's, it's really true. Because- As a drywaller, we get this question a lot, and it could be either way.
So every home settles to some degree, and that is 100% normal. Even older homes that have, especially like if you live in like a high humidity environment.
[00:32:15] Speaker: Mm.
[00:32:15] Speaker 2: Like, you could have a home that's, that's, uh, was built 20 years ago that still experiences some shifting and moving because when, during the summertime when the humidity's really high, your wood will absorb moisture.
So your, your woods will swell.
[00:32:30] Speaker: Mm.
[00:32:30] Speaker 2: And then when you get into wintertime, it dries out. So it will expand and it will contract. And it doesn't matter, you know, you could, your h- home could be built by the best of the best, it's eventually you're gonna have cracking, you're gonna have things like that. Yeah.
When you
[00:32:44] Speaker: get the nail pops.
[00:32:45] Speaker 2: Right. Th- that's exactly where you get... And so we don't even use nails, so we only, we use only screws. So you would think, oh, with a screw, you're not gonna have, you're not gonna have nail pops because it's literally screwed in. But th- our, our lumber is so wet when we get it- Ugh
that it contracts and expands so many times that it literally unscrews a screw. So like It is- Mm ... a huge issue, and it's just part of being a homeowner and, and homeownership. Materials will contract and expand. The temperature changes with the humidity. Small cosmetic crap- cracks can absolutely happen.
But here's the key. Normal settling should stabilize. Um, it shouldn't continue getting worse year after year. So I just said a house that could exist for 20 years could have settling. And so you're like, "Well, wait, those don't match." You'll get the same crack in the same place every year, and it, it's the same width, it's the same size, it's the same length.
But l- you're, it, it contracts, it expands, it contracts, it expands. It doesn't keep getting bigger. So when you have a situation where, okay, a month ago, that, that crack was, you know, like a hairline crack- Mm-hmm ... and now I can kind of see the framing-
[00:34:06] Speaker: Mm ...
[00:34:06] Speaker 2: now you're, that's giving you a clue that, okay, this is a bigger issue.
This is a more serious issue. It's, or it's something's going on other than your typical contraction and expansion. So when homeowners start reporting cracking walls, separating patios, doors that suddenly won't latch, uneven floors, and exterior concrete moving, that's when I stop using the word settling and start asking different questions.
Like, what's causing that movement? And that's one of the, the big things to, to clock here, is if it's just your drywall cracking, then it's likely that it is just settling. But when your doors stop latching, there is a massive amount of movement happening in your house. Mm-hmm. And we've seen this. Like, the, the Dylan White story- Yeah
which is still ongoing. My God, today Ibika keep sending Jess updates. When your cabinets, the door, the doors on your cabinets aren't closing right, when the doors in your house aren't closing right, when your entry door is not locking or latching anymore but it used to, that is suggesting that you have enough framing movement going on in your house that your door is no longer, like-
[00:35:25] Speaker: Mm-hmm
[00:35:26] Speaker 2: it's not adjusted level anymore. And that is, that to me always says, okay, we need to look at what's going on. We need to look- There's a
[00:35:33] Speaker: problem
[00:35:33] Speaker 2: here ... deeper. Yeah.
[00:35:36] Speaker: So the crack really isn't the problem.
[00:35:38] Speaker 2: Yeah. Exactly.
[00:35:39] Speaker: It's, it's a clue.
[00:35:40] Speaker 2: Yeah. And construction defects are, you know, defective work. That drywall crack isn't a mystery, it's evidence.
The real mystery is figuring out why it's happing- happening, sorry. Again, one hour. Um- And if you repair the crack without finding out the cause, you're probably going to keep repairing that same crack again and again. Like, you know, I, I've had people reach out to me and be like, "Hey, this crack comes back every year."
I don't advise them to fix it because if, if you've seen this crack every single year- Mm-hmm ... I could fix it, and maybe the next year it won't come back. But it's gonna come back. Hmm. Because soil is weird, and how your house sits on it is weird, and, uh, all, you know-
[00:36:28] Speaker: Moisture is weird ...
[00:36:29] Speaker 2: whether your AC is really h- Mm-hmm
handling the humidity. All of that plays a factor in it. So, like, when somebody comes to me and says, "Every year we have this crack," I'm like, "You should just leave it and-" So I can
[00:36:39] Speaker: leave- "... you know, be like, figure it out" ... the crack in my house?
[00:36:40] Speaker 2: You can. 100%.
[00:36:41] Speaker: What about my nail pops? Should I cover those up? Are they- I mean, if you
[00:36:44] Speaker 2: wanna sell your house
just gonna keep coming back? But- I don't know ... if it doesn't bother you. I can't stand a nail pop because that's literally what I do for a living. So, like, I had for the longest time a nail pop that was directly above my side of the bed. Oh. And so when I experience my, my fun little insomnia bouts-
[00:37:02] Speaker: That's what you stare at
[00:37:03] Speaker 2: I just stare at it. And finally I was like- ... "That's it!" And I fixed it.
[00:37:07] Speaker: This is what's keeping me up at night.
[00:37:09] Speaker 2: 100%.
[00:37:12] Speaker: Uh, so here's our homeowner teaching moment number one: don't accept "It's just settling"-
[00:37:18] Speaker 2: Yeah ...
[00:37:19] Speaker: as the end conversation. Instead, you can ask some follow-up questions. What specifically is settling?
Is this within normal expectations? Mm-hmm. Normal is subjective, I feel like . It
[00:37:34] Speaker 2: is. But I, like, in, like, for contractors, especially somebody who, like, if, if you're dealing with a superintendent, 'cause this is a new, I'm ass- you know- Mm-hmm ... you're, you're only having these conversations if it's a new build.
Because if you buy a house that was owned previously, nobody cares. Um, you're on your own on that. Mm-hmm. So, you're talking to somebody who they see this stuff every day. They know what normal is. Mm-hmm. 'Cause I, I remember, um, I used to work for this design build firm, and they, they bui- built some really edgy stuff, in the sense of, like, it was very kind of rarely used construction practices- Mm-hmm
for good reason. And, um, one day I got a call for a crack in the drywall, and it wasn't a crack in the drywall. The drywall had broken. So, it was- ... still installed, but the house had twisted so badly that the drywall just broke. So like, that's not normal. That's
[00:38:27] Speaker: not normal.
[00:38:28] Speaker 2: It wasn't hard for me to be like- Mm-hmm
"Okay, we have a problem." So it, it, normal- No ... is subjective. But in construction, like, you know, you've seen a million cracks, and if you saw one that's like, "Okay, that's a little weird," there is a level of normal. You know it's
[00:38:43] Speaker: not normal. All right. So, is it within normal expectations? How do you know?
[00:38:47] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[00:38:48] Speaker: Should we monitor it?
[00:38:49] Speaker 2: Yes.
[00:38:50] Speaker: And are there any measurements or inspections that can confirm that explanation? A good builder or engineer should be able to explain why- Yeah ... they believe the movement is normal, and not simply tell you that it is.
[00:39:05] Speaker 2: Yeah. And it like, you know, in that, in the situation with that house where the drywall cracked, they had, um, a f- a flat, it was like an angled roof, but it didn't have a pitch.
It was just like a one angle. And the wind, like a really big windstorm would come through, and it would get, they didn't... 'Cause in North Carolina, we don't necessarily, aren't required to use hurricane straps, because it's, especially where we are, we're not, that doesn't fall into our code.
[00:39:28] Speaker: Mm-hmm.
[00:39:29] Speaker 2: Not always.
Um, so they didn't have hurricane straps on this roof. So every time the wind would, like, gust real big, it would pull their roof off. Like, not off. Up, like- It would pull it up ... up. Oh my gosh. So like, it would just move it enough where it was just too much movement in that roof. And so they ended up having to do a bunch of engineering.
But so they knew exactly what it was. So that, that's like, asking that why is really important. And- When you're having ... I, I would say if you repair the same crack three times and every time it comes back a little bit worse, like, that's when you need, it, it triggers this, "Okay, something else is going on."
[00:40:06] Speaker: Mm.
[00:40:06] Speaker 2: I think three is the magic number. Mm. I just made that up. Sorry about that.
[00:40:09] Speaker: So now the investigation- Yeah ... begins. So the homeowners are all talking to each other and they got a little Facebook, you know, chat going on. They're posting like- As
[00:40:19] Speaker 2: old people do ... "
[00:40:20] Speaker: I have this problem. Who has this?" So at what point do they get off the Facebook-
discussion group and have lawyers and engineers-
[00:40:29] Speaker 2: Yeah ...
[00:40:30] Speaker: uh, get involved?
[00:40:31] Speaker 2: So according to the reporting As more homeowners began documenting similar issues, the concerns eventually grew beyond individual warranty claims. The homeowners association became involved. Independent engineers and geotechnical experts were retained to evaluate what was happening across the community.
Eventually, litigation followed. One of the central allegations, uh, is that the problems weren't isolated to one or two homes. They allegedly affected dozens of homes throughout portions of the development. To be clear, the builder disputes those allegations and has stated publicly that it has repaired many of the homes, um, and stands behind its quality of construction.
[00:41:20] Speaker: So that's interesting. Yeah. It has repaired many of the homes. Like, that's-
[00:41:24] Speaker 2: They're like, "Not all, but
[00:41:25] Speaker: many." Not all, but many. But also, like- ... if you had to repair many, that's not one home- Mm-hmm ... one issue, one problem-
[00:41:33] Speaker 2: Yeah ...
[00:41:33] Speaker: one scenario. And it's not like that one home, the problem could be anything. Like, once there's multiple homes- Right
like, there is something going on that's not right. Um- Yeah ... because when you've got a neighborhood and you're in these meetings, and, like- Yeah ... everybody's like, "Yeah."
[00:41:50] Speaker 2: Yeah. Same. Got that.
[00:41:51] Speaker: It's like, it would be easier to be like, "Keep your... Put your hand up if you don't have these problems." Yeah, exa- And that one person would be like, "Where do you live?
I want your
[00:41:59] Speaker 2: h- Yeah. I want your house.
[00:42:01] Speaker: Um, but that feels completely different.
[00:42:02] Speaker 2: Yeah. And it, I think it is. Like, one of the things that stood out to me while I was reading, um, the reporting on this, was that homeowners weren't describing one single issue. According to the allegations, they reported foundations and slabs showing movement, retaining walls that allegedly shifted, which is terrifying.
Mm-hmm. Um, concrete flatwork cracking, so, like, flatwork being, like, your driveway or sidewalks, your back porch- Mm-hmm ... if it's on a slab. Um, interior drywall cracking, stucco cracking, 'cause this was in Arizona and they do a bunch of stucco over there. Doors and windows becoming difficult to operate, patios separating from the homes, and sidewalks and driveway showing movement.
So as a contractor, when I hear multiple building systems showing distress, I immediately start thinking what common factor could explain all of these.
[00:42:54] Speaker: Hmm.
[00:42:55] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[00:42:55] Speaker: So- Um, I think this is where the homeowner's eyes glaze over and
[00:43:00] Speaker 2: like 100%. I, as I'm reading it, I'm going, "This is a lot." So-
[00:43:05] Speaker: It's a, it- ... it
[00:43:06] Speaker 2: makes sense.
[00:43:07] Speaker: It is a lot. So everybody hears the word soil. Yeah. Like, we know it is the dirt- Yeah ... that our house is built on, in, or whatever, and they think dirt is dirt.
[00:43:20] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[00:43:20] Speaker: But you'd be wrong.
[00:43:21] Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's, so- ... that was one of the most interesting things about moving to North Carolina and learning about red clay.
So North Carolina- Oh ... is- Mm-hmm ... like, one of our major soil components is, we call it Carolina clay. So it's, like, this red, muddy, sticky, it's a clay-based- Mm-hmm ... dirt, and it is super common, uh, as, as what- Mm-hmm ... is going to, if you di- if you dig a hole, more than likely, that's what you're gonna see. Um-
[00:43:52] Speaker: And if you get it on you, it'll stain you forever.
[00:43:54] Speaker 2: It will literally stain. Like, it's a whole thing. Like, it's so bad here that we have to do siding in conjunction with the landscaping because if you were to put, like, white siding on your house and it's not landscaped, and it rains, the rain causes the mud to, you know, sprinkle- On the siding ... onto the siding- Mm-hmm
and it will literally destroy it. Hmm. And to the point where, like, it can't even be painted over. So, like, that is how serious the Carolina clay is. Like, it's r- it's, it's a real whole thing. Oh- So- ...
[00:44:27] Speaker: that's why all the houses in my neighborhood have stuff all the way around the house.
[00:44:30] Speaker 2: Yes.
[00:44:31] Speaker: I was like, "Why do I have so many plants?"
[00:44:33] Speaker 2: Yes, because- Ugh ... it keeps the, the clay- Clay from- ... from jumping up and getting on the siding and ruining it.
[00:44:39] Speaker: That makes so much sense. See- Yeah ... you learn something new every day.
[00:44:43] Speaker 2: Right, and it's like people think, "Oh, well, my house is on a slab. My house is sitting on concrete. Like, it's, it's not on dirt. It's on concrete."
Well, your concrete is on dirt- Mm-hmm ... so it's sitting on soil. Hmm. The concrete foundations, the footings, everything ultimately transfers the weight of your house into the ground beneath it If that ground moves, your house moves. Now, that doesn't automatically mean someone did something wrong. Soils are incredibly complicated.
I have a friend who's a geotechnical engineer, and so she does soil testing for all of, of these large construction projects all over North Carolina.
[00:45:18] Speaker: Mm-hmm.
[00:45:19] Speaker 2: And the, the complexity that soil is, I'm just like, whoa. Like, she'll talk about stuff and I'm like, "What just happened?" I've been in construction for 22 years and I'm like, "That was a lot of words."
Um, so there's like, there... And there's all kinds of ways that you can mitigate, like if you were to do a soil test, which is required if you're gonna build. You need, like a new construction build, you need to do, in, at least in North Carolina, you need to do a soil test so that you can have your engineering company determine how- Hmm
you're gonna build that foundation. Makes sense. Because sometimes you have to remove layers of soil and replace it with a different substrate. So this is a fantastic story of ridiculousness. Mm-hmm. Two houses down from me, I had these neighbors. They're both dead, so I'm gonna say their real names. Bill and Margie, they were horrible.
Bill tried to run me over, I don't even know how many times. But this is before I had my invisible fence and I used to walk my dogs. I don't, I don't know if he was trying to run me over or if he was just drunk, 'cause he did hit the sauce, but Bill came for me on several occasions. Bill, good old Bill, was a general contractor.
So Bill decided he was going to build an addition to his house. We call it the tower, 'cause it's three stories tall.
[00:46:41] Speaker: The addition is?
[00:46:42] Speaker 2: The addition. Okay. So he built an addition on his house. It was three stories tall. Now Bill's a good old boy. Good old boy in North Cackalack, he knows everybody. He don't need no inspections.
It's fine. He's gonna get it. He's gonna get it. Okay? Don't you worry about inspections. Except for in the state of North Carolina, you can't get power turned on to your new construction build unless you have something called a permit. So- Hmm ... Bill built this, he built the tower And n- could never finish it and get the power connected to it because he never pulled permits.
So then he decides, he's like, "All right. I'm gonna go and I'm gonna, like, just pro- r- retroactively get permits pulled." So North s- Wake County's like, "All right, let's test that soil." Turns out the soil that he built a three story tower on was not suitable for construction, so the entire thing had to be demolished.
'Cause it- I
[00:47:44] Speaker: was gonna say, I've been to your house ... they were never- There's not-
[00:47:47] Speaker 2: Yeah. They were never going to let this guy get a certificate of occupancy. So he built a three story tower thinking, "It's fine. I know people. I'll get it passed," and they were like, "Absolutely not." So when we say- So we tore it down
soil matters... Yeah, they had to tear it down. It was ridiculous. Soils are incredibly complicated. Different types expand differently. Um, some compress, some shrink when they dry. Others swell when they become wet. Engineers spend entire careers studying this, like my friend Norma.
That's why every large residential development should begin with geotechnical engineering. I- it's like I do this for a living or something. Those engineers study the soil before construction even begins. They determine things like how much weight the soil can support, whether the soil needs to be compacted, whether retaining walls are necessary, how water should drain through the property, whether there are, um- expansive soils, whether additional engineering is needed.
If the soil changes, everything above it can change too. Hmm. So it is actually really important.
[00:49:00] Speaker: So when homeowners say, like, "My foundation cracked," the foundation might actually not be the thing that failed first. Right.
[00:49:08] Speaker 2: And a lo- a lot of times when your foundation cracks, it's not that your foundation failed, it's that the soil underneath your foundation, it is moving so drastically that, you know, it, it can't absorb- Mm-hmm
that move and it cracks. Um, something the foundation is, like, like I just said, is simply reacting to what's happening underneath it. Think about putting a dinner plate on a pillow. Now push down on one side of the pillow. The plate didn't decide to move, the support underneath it changed. That's why engineers don't just look at the crack.
They investigate the cause.
[00:49:47] Speaker: Hmm. So now we have a red flag alert number two.
[00:49:52] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
[00:49:53] Speaker: A retaining wall. Oh, God. Um, so one thing that we kept seeing in this story is that the retaining walls, um, were cracking and moving and stuff. Yeah. And, like, some homeowners were like, "Ah, it's fine. It's just landscaping."
[00:50:07] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[00:50:08] Speaker: It's not just landscaping. It's
[00:50:09] Speaker 2: not just landscaping. Uh, and, and- ... that's a really dangerous assumption. So I don't know about everywhere, but in North Carolina, to go ab- If you build a retaining wall above four feet, you have to have it engineered.
[00:50:21] Speaker: Hmm.
[00:50:21] Speaker 2: That's how serious retaining walls are. Like, they're holding so much soil, and there's so much pressure, and there's so much weight behind that wall.
When you get over a certain height- Mm-hmm ... like, it literally has to be engineered because they are that big of a deal. So retaining walls are often structural elements. Their job is to hold back enormous amounts of soil. If they move, soil behind them can move. If the soil moves, everything supported by that soil can be affected.
Now, I'm not saying every retaining wall problem is caused, you know, causes house movement. It cannot. Depends on where the s- the retaining wall is. Um, but engineers begin investigating retaining walls during construction defect cases. There's usually a reason. Hmm.
[00:51:12] Speaker: So here's what I've learned so far. If I'm buying a house- Mm-hmm
I'm not just looking at the granite countertops- No ... and all the pretty finishes in the house. No. I'm looking outside. How close is the home to a slope?
[00:51:25] Speaker 2: Yep.
[00:51:26] Speaker: Are there retaining walls? Is there obvious drainage? Where does the water go when it rains? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Because apparently, those things are important.
[00:51:36] Speaker 2: Honestly, they can matter even more. We're currently looking at properties in the mountains, and the first thing I look at is the lot. I look at the slope, I look at the retaining walls, I look at the condition of the retaining walls. Mm-hmm. Um, we're, we're looking at one where I'm like, "Hey, can I, can I see the permits that were pulled for this retaining wall?
Can I see that they actually got the appropriate engineering for this retaining wall?" Mm-hmm. Because, again, they are holding so much soil, and it can- Mm-hmm ... move so much and damage so much. Countertops are easy to replace. A foundation is not. No,
[00:52:12] Speaker: it is not. So here's our teaching moment number two. If you're buying a house on or near a hillside, a retaining wall, fill dirt, a steep slope, or a recently developed subdivision, ask these questions.
Was a geotechnical report prepared- Yes ... or retaining walls engineered?
[00:52:32] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
[00:52:33] Speaker: Who maintains the retaining walls? Has there been any history of settlement or movement?
[00:52:39] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[00:52:40] Speaker: Are there drainage easements nearby? Most buyers never ask those questions. Facts. But they can become some of the most important questions that you will ask.
[00:52:50] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[00:52:51] Speaker: So this story is changing how I think about buying a house- Yeah, facts ... 'cause before I spent an hour looking at the kitchen, the bath, and vi- envisioning living in the space. Yes. And now I think I would spend more time walking around outside.
[00:53:03] Speaker 2: And honestly, that's exactly what I hope homeowners take away from today's episode.
The most expensive problems in the house are often the ones that you can't see, which we- Mm-hmm ... happens in almost every story.
[00:53:16] Speaker: All right, so the bigger picture. You know, every time we research one of these homeowner horror stories, I start thinking, "This is about one bad project." But by the time that we're done-
[00:53:30] Speaker 2: Yeah ...
[00:53:30] Speaker: I realize it's usually about something much bigger. This episode wasn't really about cracked drywall or patios or retaining walls.
It was about one question. How do homeowners protect themselves before something goes wrong?
[00:53:45] Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you're 100% right, and honestly, I don't want people listening to this ep- episode walking away thinking, "I'm never building a house." That's not the point. Um, that's obviously, you know, not the lesson we want you guys to learn.
I spent over 20 years in the industry. I've worked with incredible contractors, and there are a lot of really great ones in North Carolina, builders who genuinely care, tradespeople who take enormous pride in what they build. The overwhelming majority of people in this industry wake up every day trying to build great homes.
But- Mm-hmm ... the fact that we have this podcast is for a reason. Stories like this remind us that homeowners can't outsource all responsibility. You have to be an active participant in the process.
[00:54:29] Speaker: Mm-hmm. So when you're looking at buying a house, you have to go about the approach just a little bit differently.
[00:54:36] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[00:54:37] Speaker: Um, so you don't wanna confuse a beautiful home with a well-built home.
[00:54:42] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
[00:54:43] Speaker: Those are, they can be the same- Yep ... but they can also be very different.
[00:54:47] Speaker 2: Yep.
[00:54:47] Speaker: A home can photograph beautifully and still have problems that you can't see.
[00:54:52] Speaker 2: 100%. Granite countertops, designer lighting, luxury flooring, none of those things will tell you whether the foundation was prepared correctly or whether the drainage was designed properly or whether the framing was installed correctly.
The expensive parts of the home are often the things that are hidden behind the drywall. Mm-hmm.
[00:55:16] Speaker: I've also learned that you wanna talk to your neighbors. Yeah. If you're in the process of building a new home, or you're going to consider moving into, like, a new build community, chances are there's somebody already living there.
Go chat with them, 'cause they're going to have some valuable information for you.
[00:55:30] Speaker 2: Yeah, 'cause, like, it could be y- you could just have one crack, but if you talk to all five of your neighbors and they all have a crack in a similar spot or they have the same amount of cracks and the same issues, you know, that's worth paying attention to.
[00:55:43] Speaker: Don't stop asking questions just because they tell you that's normal.
[00:55:48] Speaker 2: Yeah. Like, it, it may be normal. It, it could be. Like, anything could happen. But ask them to explain why. What makes it normal? My favorite question is, can you help me understand that? So I ask that all the time. Like, "Okay, walk me through that.
I don't, I don't get that." Mm-hmm. Like, "What's the deal with that?" It's respectful, it's non-confrontational, and it forces the people to explain their reasoning instead of simply just making a statement. Mm-hmm.
[00:56:15] Speaker: If the same repair keeps happening, stop focusing on the repair. Start thinking about what is causing the issue.
[00:56:22] Speaker 2: Yeah, and that, we're seeing this spec- specifically in, in a lot of the, the stories that we're getting lately, um And it, like, well, we've said it before, we'll say it again. If you're fixing drywall for the fourth time, the drywall probably isn't the problem.
[00:56:37] Speaker: Mm-hmm.
[00:56:38] Speaker 2: It's reacting to something else. The sooner you identify the cause, the sooner you can stop paying for, to fix the symptoms.
[00:56:45] Speaker: Yes. And finally, make sure that you document everything.
[00:56:49] Speaker 2: Literally everything.
[00:56:51] Speaker: Everything.
[00:56:51] Speaker 2: Like, everything. And that was one of, I just watched an update from Dylan White, his whole case. Mm-hmm. And that was the one thing he was talking about, how it really becomes the responsibility of the homeowner to document every phone call, and every email, and every- Mm-hmm
problem you're having in the house, and every exchange that you've had. Which, honestly, I'm gonna be, like, straight up with you guys. It's not super fair, but the reality is if you wanna be the person who becomes one of the homes Pulte fixed, it's probably because those people had really good documentation.
So it, meeting notes- Or
[00:57:25] Speaker: they're a retired lawyer ...
[00:57:27] Speaker 2: for real, or they're, they're like, mm. What is it? Test that assumption at your, at your earliest convenience. Mm-hmm. So it protects you as the homeowner, it protects good contractors, and it helps experts determine what actually happened. So there's one thing I wanna say directly to the builders, to the contractors, and to the trades listening.
Homeowners don't expect perfection, which I don't know that that's ex- 100% true. Um-
[00:57:53] Speaker: They expect close to perfection.
[00:57:55] Speaker 2: I think homeowners can be reasoned with. I think a, the, the homeowner, I think it starts out expecting perfection, and then they realize, oh, I'm alive, so perfection's probably not gonna happen.
But communication and accountability when something goes wrong, tell them what's going wrong. Explain it to them. Own it. Because one mistake rarely destroys trust, but trying to hide a mistake usually does. Um, some of the strongest relationships that I've ever had with clients came after we worked through a difficult problem together.
Not because the project was perfect, but because we handled the problem professionally. Um, and that standard in our industry sh- we should all strive for that. Just being straight up with people and just being like, "Hey, listen, no, that's, that's something bigger, and I wanna investigate that and figure out what's going on."
Yeah. Just like gaslighting people- Mm ... it's so 2024.
[00:58:45] Speaker: Yeah. And as a homeowner, this honestly changes the way that I look at houses. I used to walk into a house and immediately notice the kitchen, the finishes, how big each room was. You know, all of those things. The paint, the lighting. But now I'm going to be looking outside the home, and looking at drainage- Yeah
and retaining walls, and slopes, and landscaping. And often the parts, um, that no one is going to post about on Instagram- Right ... because-
[00:59:13] Speaker 2: It's not sexy ...
[00:59:15] Speaker: it ain't, it ain't that. And, like, maybe that's part of the problem. Maybe we've- Yeah ... gone so far into making sure that the house
[00:59:22] Speaker 2: looks perfect- The finishes,
[00:59:22] Speaker: right
that we haven't thought about is it- sturdy? Is it going to stand up for 30 years? Yeah. Um, I think the biggest gift these homeowners gave us all is that by sharing their story, we're able to think about the way that we're going to buy houses differently- Yeah ... or build houses differently.
[00:59:42] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[00:59:43] Speaker: Uh, whether the lawsuit ultimately goes one way or the other, they've encouraged thousands of homeowners to ask better questions.
[00:59:49] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[00:59:49] Speaker: And that's really a good thing.
[00:59:51] Speaker 2: It really is a good thing. And, and w- nobody thinks about soil, but it's something that, honestly, just even through what we've done on the podcast, it- I'm starting to think differently about it. Like, it's like, oh, wow, yeah. No, like, you think d- oh, everybody does geotech on these big projects, but rarely does it happen on just a single family house, but it really should.
Um, so if you have had an interesting story with a contractor- Mm ... be it a general contractor, be it a, be it a plumber, be it an electrician, whatever it is, we want you to write in and share it with us. Mm-hmm. Because we truly believe on the podcast that learning the hard way is overrated. Is overrated. And we wanna help you learn from other people's mistakes.
That is my favorite way to learn, is- Mm-hmm ... from other people messing around and finding out, and then I'm like, ooh, clocked it. No, I'm not gonna do that.
[01:00:41] Speaker: Mm-hmm.
[01:00:42] Speaker 2: My favorite way to learn. We want that to be your favorite way to learn, too. So if you have had the unfortunate luck of being on the wrong side of a homeowner horror story, if you could please be so kind as to share it with us.
You can go to our website, chicksinconstruction.com. Scroll down a little bit. It, there's a form where you can just, you can get the angry cat- Click, click, click, click, click, click, click ... slap them keys. Tell us your story. Me and Jess will read it. Jess will never say your name- Never ... your real name- Mm-mm ... uh, because she's not about that life.
No. And we will help other people learn from your situation. So it, you know, you went through it. I know that you don't want other people to go through it. We wanna help you share your story, so if you could do that, that would be great. Also, um, I feel like there's, there's some, some people out there that like this podcast, that they're into, they're picking up what we're putting down.
You know what I'm saying? And if you fall into that category, we would love it if you'd like this video. It actually wildly helps the whole algorithm. The- Mm ... the elusive algorithm that absolutely nobody understands, it actually does help. So liking the video is really helpful. Also, I mean, obviously subscribe.
I mean, we're such a good time. You don't wanna miss our videos. We post every week, 'cause we are a whole problem. But we're here for you. One of us is a
[01:01:54] Speaker: problem.
[01:01:54] Speaker 2: Well, Jess is not a whole problem. I am a whole problem. Jess, where can they find us on the socials? And if you find us on the socials, act like someone raised you.
I'm just saying. Like, we can find where you live. So act accordingly Insane. Just where can they find us to act accordingly?
[01:02:14] Speaker: Please like and follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn at Chicks in Construction Podcast. On TikTok, it's @ChicksinConstruction.
[01:02:24] Speaker 2: Yeah, guys. Remember, we're watching.
[01:02:27] Speaker: All right, we're gonna wrap it up.
We love you, and we'll see you next time. Bye.
[01:02:30] Speaker 2: Bye.
[01:02:31] Speaker: All right, I have to pee