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You know that sinking feeling when you wake up with a hangover and think: “I’m never doing this again”? We’ve all been there. But what happens when you follow through? Sonia Kahlon and Kathleen Killen can tell you, because they did it! They went from sisters-in-law, to Sisters in Sobriety.
In this podcast, Sonia and Kathleen invite you into their world, as they navigate the ups and downs of sobriety, explore stories of personal growth and share their journey of wellness and recovery.
Get ready for some real, honest conversations about sobriety, addiction, and everything in between. Episodes will cover topics such as: reaching emotional sobriety, how to make the decision to get sober, adopting a more mindful lifestyle, socializing without alcohol, and much more.
Whether you’re sober-curious, seeking inspiration and self-care through sobriety, or embracing the alcohol-free lifestyle already… Tune in for a weekly dose of vulnerability, mutual support and much needed comic relief. Together, let’s celebrate the transformative power of sisterhood in substance recovery!
Kathleen Killen is a registered psychotherapist (qualifying) and certified coach based in Ontario, Canada. Her practice is centered on relational therapy and she specializes in couples and working with individuals who are navigating their personal relationships.
Having been through many life transitions herself, Kathleen has made it her mission to help others find the support and communication they need in their closest relationships. To find out more about Kathleen’s work, check out her website.
Sonia Kahlon is a recovery coach and former addict. She grappled with high-functioning alcohol use disorder throughout her life, before getting sober in 2016.
Over the last five years, she has appeared on successful sobriety platforms, such as the Story Exchange, the Sobriety Diaries podcast and the Sober Curator, to tell her story of empowerment and addiction recovery, discuss health and midlife sobriety, and share how she is thriving without alcohol.
Your sobriety success story starts today, with Kathleen and Sonia. Just press play!
[00:00:00] Sonia: Welcome to Sisters in Sobriety. [00:01:00] Today we're thrilled to be joined by Bella Ferguson. Bella is a certified This Naked Mind coach and co host of the popular podcast Not Drinking Alcohol. Today she shares her story of transformation from navigating high stress corporate environments and the social pressures of drinking to ultimately making a life changing decision to embrace a sober life.
[00:01:21] Sonia: In her early career as a lawyer, she faced the intensity of drinking culture and found herself turning to alcohol to manage the demands of her job. Bella took a brave step towards sobriety and now she uses her experiences to guide women to live authentically without relying on alcohol. Bella.
[00:01:42] Isabella: Hello, Sonia. Thank you so much for that introduction.
[00:01:45] Sonia: I am so excited you're here. And it is election day in America. So we're stressed. We're stressed. But,
[00:01:53] Isabella: Stressed. I imagine. Wow.
[00:01:55] Sonia: I do remember like past election days where I would drink [00:02:00] and, uh, now cannot drink. So I'll just be like up all night. So, so you were a lawyer and in your experience as a lawyer, how prominent was drinking in corporate and social settings?
[00:02:13] Isabella: Look, it was, uh, everywhere. and I'm sure that you could find a little subculture if you were a non drinker, but I think like kind of hangs out with like, and certainly in all of the groups that I was a lawyer in and gravitated towards big drinking culture, work hard, play hard, permeated.
[00:02:37] Sonia: Yeah.
[00:02:38] Sonia: So did you feel that expectation in that corporate world to be in that subgroup? Was that the subgroup that was getting made partner or how did you feel about it?
[00:02:51] Isabella: I guess I wouldn't have felt. a pressure, but it was certainly something that was promoted and, uh, [00:03:00] it was just everywhere. So alcohol was there when you had to market to clients and it was very much, uh, a status that was associated with marking to really important clients. So I guess in that, in that kind of setting, the expectation was that you'd partake in the expensive champagne or the expensive wine when you're marketing.
[00:03:25] Isabella: Um, And it was, yeah, it was there when you needed to debrief with your group, um, also, uh, to, celebrate at work conferences and work functions. There really wasn't much of a part of the law firm, except when you were doing your billable hours behind your desk, where alcohol wasn't involved. it, it is very much a part of connection, bonding, marketing, and de stressing.
[00:03:56] Isabella: Uh, so if, if you are that kind of person that [00:04:00] has already got alcohol on the periphery of your life, you have used it because you've, you've grown up with as a teenager and then to high school, then at university, then, You're going to keep on using it in, in your firm because you want to belong and fit in.
[00:04:19] Isabella: And you're also really stressed. So it kind of tackles you from both ends. So look, it's everywhere. It is an issue and the stats kind of show it as well.
[00:04:31] Sonia: Yeah, so I do this a lot in like different situations, when you look back, can you see a way where you could have done that without drinking? Where there was somebody else maybe even doing it?
[00:04:43] Isabella: I don't think I could have because of who I was. Uh, I think it can really capture people that, um, You are diligent and hardworking and smart, but you might have some core issues there, [00:05:00] uh, that relate to belonging, self esteem, self worth, your intelligence, you know, things that develop from your, your childhood and your teenage years.
[00:05:08] Isabella: If you've got that within your personality type already, and then you're thrust into this corporate environment where all All of those things get come to the fore in the surface when you are highly stressed, then On top of that, if it's culturally promoted and available, uh, you are going to gravitate towards that as your means of self soothing.
[00:05:35] Isabella: And that's exactly what I did. So the only way that that pathway wasn't going to play out like the way it did was if the culture in the firm was different. there was really a top down, which, promoted not drinking. It made it a free choice. It really, turned it on its head from what it is, what it [00:06:00] was in that time frame.
[00:06:01] Isabella: yeah, it's a hard one to look back and see how would it play out differently, but I think it's a cultural, um, systemic issue.
[00:06:09] Sonia: Oh, for sure. Did you,see a difference, between men and women, and how they approached that drinking culture?
[00:06:16] Isabella: That's a really good question. I haven't really thought about it in that way. Uh, I think in the culture that I was brought up in as a lawyer, were very much in the leadership, uh, dominated the leadership, in terms of numbers, women were not as represented, but we were, slowly, slowly getting there.
[00:06:38] Isabella: Um, so to be included in that drinking culture, uh, I think as a woman, you wanted to be part of the group. you wanted to be at that debriefing table and showing that you show that you could keep up with it all. So I guess there was that then added layer of drinking like the men to be like, to be included.[00:07:00]
[00:07:00] Isabella: Uh, I think the other layer of it, now that I'm thinking about it, is that women really have it differently in terms of that 35 to 40 year old bracket, when you have earned your stripes and worked your way up to quite senior levels. But then there is a bit of a lifestyle style shift. If you were thinking about having kids and needing time out, you're juggling then a whole host of extra, stresses in your life.
[00:07:33] Isabella: So you kind of need to dip out a bit. everyone manages this differently. I can really only talk from my perspective, but you jump out, you've got maternity leave. You're trying to work out how to keep your foot in that corporate door, and to be taken seriously so that when you come back, um, alcohol then might be creeping in more on the home front.
[00:07:54] Isabella: Uh, you're then working a bit later trying to juggle the, the demands of [00:08:00] both lives. So, drinking can ramp up on two fronts because you're trying to manage the stress. But also you're, you're wanting to connect and fit right back into that law firm socially and at the, the big end of town.
[00:08:13] Isabella: And drinking, if it's still there, is where, you know, it can slowly creep in again on that front as well.
[00:08:19] Sonia: Is that what happened to you?
[00:08:21] Isabella: Well I guess it probably did. Um, I was, the way that I describe it, a functional drinker for about 20 years, for a couple of years towards the end, I was then very much in that gray area, drinking front, but on the higher end and gray area, drinking in the, in the terms of was drinking beyond more than I wanted to and was taking.
[00:08:51] Isabella: to try and stop, but kept on finding myself back where I was. It was. Certainly something that crept [00:09:00] into my life when I was a lawyer and I had my kids. So the whole ball game just shifted for me then. By then I was a senior associate, really looking towards partnership. Uh, and my husband was working extremely long hours as well.
[00:09:17] Isabella: And then I had these tiny kids and I was a step mom as well to two gorgeous girls. So there were four kids at home and,It was, it was hard. It was a hard juggle. And alcohol was my go to means because I had no other ways of self soothing, that I really knew about. That was really creeping in at that time.
[00:09:42] Isabella: When I then tried to get my career back and work back after my kids, Their stress was just incredible. There are a hundred and one plates spinning in the air and it was just the norm to come back home. [00:10:00] My husband would have his bottle of white. I'd have my bottle of red. You'd juggle with the kids. I would often do it myself because he was coming home late and then I was working again at night and then it was a vicious cycle.
[00:10:13] Isabella: The lack of sleep, the fatigue the next day. So, it was just my avoidant self-soothing behavior of choice that then took on a whole life of its, of its own.
[00:10:23] Sonia: That's exactly how I would describe it, too. So at what point, after repeating this cycle for how many years, did you reach that moment that pushed you towards thinking even about quitting?
[00:10:34] Isabella: Yeah. I, I was one of those people that hit a pretty nasty rock bottom, to be honest. So, and it happened, funnily enough, when I left, I, I just, I couldn't sustain the balance. any longer. Uh, my anxiety was through the roof. My, I must have just been, you know, running on a threadbare nervous system. So I left the law and decided to [00:11:00] try and manage, find some balance and spend some time with my kids.
[00:11:05] Isabella: Uh, and it was then that alcohol really took on a life of its own because, I didn't have the structure and the external validation. My identity was so tied up in, working and. productivity outside. And I loved being at home with the kids. That was awesome. But then I also then threw myself into mummy wine culture.
[00:11:29] Isabella: this whole new world was in front of me where I was suddenly able to connect with the mums at the, um, at the school and in my neighborhood. So the drinking just took a different turn. There was then lunchtime, socializing, drinking, and then long lunches, long parties. Um, and then into the evenings, you know, kind of the, the lunches then blurred with the evenings and alcohol then became something that I [00:12:00] was drinking just to feel normal.
[00:12:03] Isabella: Uh, and to cut a long story short, it just got to the point where, I was drinking before I was going out anywhere. I was. Gosh, at my worst, drinking two, two and a half bottles a day wasn't really touching the sides. My husband, though, knew he, he was, you know, poor thing was pulling his hair out, trying to work out what, what was going on and how to stop it.
[00:12:27] Isabella: So lots of big conversations were had. and I was, you know, Yeah, trying, trying to pull back, but by that stage I would have been physically addicted. soyou know, it was just dangerous and it got to a point where one night I had just drunk so much and my husband found me quite unresponsive, so I went to hospital and from there, uh, got a nasty shock.
[00:12:54] Isabella: I think it's not overstating it to say that alcohol nearly killed me. Uh, my blood alcohol level was [00:13:00] massively high. And there was a beautiful, beautiful doctor who just said to me, Look, you're on a You've got a fork in the road moment here. Uh, if I send you back straight away, I don't know if where you're going to go, where you're going to end up.
[00:13:19] Isabella: But if I put you on the ward, and you make some phone calls and check yourself in somewhere, uh, and do the work, you might just be able to pull, pull it together and start. You know, living the life that you deserve, your kids and your husband deserves. And that is what I did. And if it wasn't for that act of kindness from a doctor that had a brother that had gone through the same thing, so she got it, then things might've turned out quite differently.
[00:13:49] Isabella: But, um, yeah, there's no skirting around the issue. Uh, when I say that it had got so problematic that it, it almost killed me, which is frightening [00:14:00] because I love my life.
[00:14:02] Sonia: Ah, yeah. So, I'm not a parent, but when I think of, Mommy Wine culture, it's, the suburban mom with the picket fence and the husband. And so you've talked about how your husband knew there was an issue. how was it affecting your relationship?
[00:14:18] Isabella: gosh, Sonia, you ask such good questions. That's a goodie. Uh,
[00:14:23] Sonia: feel like these are the questions people want to know. when they're thinking about quitting, they're
[00:14:28] Isabella: Yeah,
[00:14:28] Isabella: how do I talk to my spouseWell, I, I, I just tried to hide it and I was in full flight, deny denial. I couldn't contemplate a life without alcohol and I was protecting it, hiding onto it for dear life. And of course, I didn't know where it was gonna end up.
[00:14:43] Isabella: and I thought I could just deal with this myself and become a moderator. So. He would come home at around, nine o'clock at night. By that stage, the witching hour had long passed. The kids were in bed. I'd probably had a few long lunches and it had just [00:15:00] continued on. And I would be trying to hide how much I'd actually consumed if I was actually awake on the couch, often I was asleep on the
[00:15:06] Sonia: hmm.
[00:15:07] Isabella: Uh, so the conversations became quite frequent where, babes, what are you doing? Uh, and I was like, no, no, no, I'm fine. I'm fine. Um, and. You've just got to stop. He was saying, this is just too much. I, you know, this is not how I see our marriage playing out. I'm fine. I'm fine. I've got it under control. I know what to do.
[00:15:28] Isabella: I'm going to stop. It was just that again and again and again. Uh, and I would say that went on for Oh, it probably went on for about three years with the frequency building up towards the end. Because you see, we started as big drinkers together. That was the way we socialized with all of our friends. It was just what we did, you know, long lunches with many bottles.
[00:15:55] Isabella: the recycling bin was a full bin, most gatherings that we had. So, [00:16:00] uh, I couldn't conceive of not having my wine. Uh, he, he then just started to find bottles, that I was hiding and whether that was in the recycling bin or in my, my cupboard or, wherever, you know, got really clever at trying to stash.
[00:16:23] Isabella: And that's when, it really dawned on both of us that things had taken a, a strange snakey. secret, path and he, he's a pretty, he's a lovely, lovely man. There was never any, I'm going to leave you conversations, but I can remember it did get to one night where he did pack his bags and he did go and stay in a hotel and he just I've got to sort this out.
[00:16:58] Isabella: I can't live with this. I [00:17:00] don't want to live with this anymore. and that, that was a turning point moment. because you see, after rehab, I still try to moderate. And so it happened after that. Um, yeah. And that was, that was fear. from him and fear in me that made me, uh, realise that something had to give.
[00:17:23] Isabella: Had to be alcohol.
[00:17:25] Sonia: So, I know this happened to me, where, the way you meet your spouse those early, years, you're drinking, you're out with friends, and then all of a, yeah, all of a sudden you're in your late 30s and it's like, this is not okay. What it's supposed to look like.
[00:17:39] Sonia: and then, yeah, oftentimes you think, Oh, I thought we were drinking the same amount, but you weren't, and you have to have that conversation. are we going to keep alcohol in the house? How much are you going to drink? Are you going to moderate? Are you only going to drink when you go out? I've had all those.
[00:17:53] Isabella: So what was that conversation like,Yeah, yeah. Well, he, um, was [00:18:00] obliging and willing and keen to do anything. So he, he was all up for, shall I remove every bit of alcohol from the house? Shall I not drink at all? Uh, and I didn't want the spotlight on me because when I came back from the treatment center, I was just so full of anxiety and that's, that shame.
[00:18:20] Isabella: How am I going to integrate back into my life, without people thinking that I am, you know, just a full, I'm broken. I wanted to get that, um, self esteem back and I didn't want the spotlight on me. So, I just said, you do you please just continue the norm. So as for me not to make it feel so weird and, and that's what we did.
[00:18:46] Isabella: Certainly with some bumps in the road, it was not suddenly, Hey, I've gone to rehab and I'm back and life is rosy. and look at me now. It's rarely ever like that. [00:19:00] There's a lot of, uh, shifts and layers under there. Ah, so this is what it's going to look like. Ah. So where we are now is that, uh, his drinking has now substantially changed.
[00:19:15] Isabella: Uh, because I probably was the instigator in our household. he always had an off switch. Rarely did I ever see him inebriated and slurry. so we just were very different in our drinking styles and I think we're healthier and better for it. Our relationship is so much better, was heading toward a massive collision that was probably not going to be repairable.
[00:19:47] Isabella: So. Uh, yeah, I mean, we're, we're fitter happier for it.
[00:19:54] Sonia: [00:20:00] Yes. Yes. So, when we talk about rehab, how did rehab and any, programs that followed, how did that help you gain clarity on your drinking? Mm
[00:20:37] Isabella: uh, was just the first door opening. It was probably the one, one door of the next a thousand doors that I had to go through. Uh, it was not a quick fix. Because what, you know, how, how can you possibly get a quick fix in four weeks? Uh, particularly when at that point I was very much still in protection mode, wanting to hold [00:21:00] on to this, keep one foot in both camps.
[00:21:02] Isabella: and Because I wasn't very self aware. Uh, I didn't appreciate what alcohol did to our brains and our bodies. I didn't appreciate, perhaps it was connected to some core negative core beliefs that I had, that I was drinking. I didn't understand it was a self soothe, that it was a avoidant behavior. Uh, I just didn't get it.
[00:21:25] Isabella: And on top of that, my, my nervous system would have been just threadbare and I had no. internal knowledge about nervous systems and how they worked and how it made me feel. So there wasn't that interceptive awareness around how to be grounded, how to breathe. I didn't know when I was stressed. There was a whole lot of learning.
[00:21:48] Isabella: Like we were starting at let's teach this person how to regulate level. And so, I mean, that takes years really. Uh, and I,
[00:21:58] Sonia: that's the emotional sobriety. And I [00:22:00] didn't
[00:22:00] Isabella: I was about to say the same
[00:22:01] Sonia: yeah, I don't even, I don't even think I thought about it until a couple of years in. I think I was like, white knuckling it, yeah,
[00:22:09] Isabella: Yeah, you took the words out of my mouth.
[00:22:13] Sonia: yeah,
[00:22:14] Isabella: The first, the first six weeks is different to three months, which is different to that year. Uh, you've got all your sober firsts and you're managing the cravings and you're all of that. And then yes, then there's the emotional sobriety, all of that letting go of other behaviors that are avoidant behaviors as well.
[00:22:34] Isabella: It just, it keeps on going, isn't it? It's a whole
[00:22:37] Sonia: yes.
[00:22:38] Isabella: exercise that will probably never stop.
[00:22:41] Sonia: Yeah, I totally agree. If I, you know, I started drinking when I was 15, I'm sort of stuck there in a lot of ways. So I have a lot of, a lot to figure out. So I I just had a client. I'm sure you have tons of clients that are trying to figure out if they can moderate or if they need to [00:23:00] quit. And.
[00:23:01] Isabella: hmm.
[00:23:02] Sonia: I never let, I never make that decision for them.
[00:23:05] Sonia: Um, but what advice do you, or what, what are some things you ask people when they're trying to figure that out? Or what are some things you tell them?
[00:23:13] Isabella: Yeah, look often I have clients that will say Well, I know I'm on this alcohol free thing. That is my goal long term, but I've got this function coming up. Would it be okay if I just have one or two? And I, my response is always the same. I'm neither fine with it, I mean, and I'm all not fine with it. This is you.
[00:23:39] Isabella: You do you. And you work out if that's, if that was okay for you. How did it play out? How do you wake up feeling the next morning? This is what you've got to go through to work out if this is going to work. Um, there are times when I will just say, look, but these are the [00:24:00] statistics, and and it also depends on the person.
[00:24:03] Isabella: Where was their level of drinking at before they came to me as a client? Very different to have the person that, is a binge drinker every now and then versus a person that had been hiding bottles, habitual drinker who has previously had to go through some treatment to, um, to get through physical addiction.
[00:24:27] Isabella: So you've got to meet the client where they're at and they've got to work it out themselves, in the long run. Um, I don't think it really helps. at the start of any client counseling relationship from my perspective to say, well, that's it. That's the line in the sand. Uh, you'll never be able to, to moderate it ever again.
[00:24:48] Isabella: and I think for many people who are alcohol free and have a year under their belt, even the never say never thing can really make, make you feel [00:25:00] quite closed in and claustrophobic and fearful. So there is something to that one day at a time. and then ask yourself the questions, is this really what I want?
[00:25:10] Isabella: Is it really going to give me what I'm seeking? And if you've done the work and you get to that point, then more often than not, you're going to say, hell no, but yeah, everybody, I can't really think of, well, no, only one or two clients that have said, yeah, I, I'm out, I'm alcohol free from this day.
[00:25:29] Isabella: That's all I want to be. it's hard to unravel decades of drinking in one fell swoop.
[00:25:37] Sonia: And I think the fear, I mean, I just could not imagine a weekend without alcohol and there's such fear there and you think, well, if I can just drink on Friday and Saturday nights, maybe then cause what am I going to, I, you, you know, I think deep down that there's a whole new world that you have to create.
[00:25:57] Sonia: So what do you think other [00:26:00] than, the social aspect, what are other people's biggest fears? It's about quitting or having a life without alcohol.
[00:26:07] Isabella: I think what they think is their, their fear list never really quite is on point. So initially the fears are, yeah, fears around socialising, fears around getting through boredom and loneliness, um, fears around tapping into that carefree, adventurous youth,fears around, getting into the mood, the energy thing.
[00:26:33] Isabella: I, I think they're just the, the surface fears that we all go to, that we think we drink about. I think if you really tap in and sort of ask them a few more questions, probe a bit, it comes down to some core beliefs, um, fears around feeling emotional stress. is derived from self esteem issues.
[00:26:59] Sonia: [00:27:00] hmm. Mm
[00:27:01] Isabella: really think of a client that I've worked with where it hasn't gone back to fears around their likability, their lovability, their sense of self worth, their sense of, um, are they intelligent enough, good enough.
[00:27:19] Isabella: Those, those essential things core beliefs that make us human. Now, when there's some resistance to that kind of inquiry, so well, you probably think you are lovable and likable, and you are on in most areas of your life. But situationally, there are just things that trigger those, those core beliefs could be on a work front, it could be being left out of a friendship dinner, or it could be just something that has sparked that ruminating.
[00:27:52] Isabella: intense core feeling that you never want to feel again. And it's often come from. a childhood [00:28:00] experience or an, or an experience in your adult life that has just really stressed you, traumatized you, a breakup or a, a work thing, a bullying thing that has triggered that feeling that you never want to feel again.
[00:28:14] Isabella: And so at all costs, you, you try and engage in avoidant behavior and that's where alcohol comes in. Uh, So that you you never want to and I think that's hard to really explain to people because I say we'll say well I'm sitting at home and I'm just in the habit loop of Getting my bottle of red wine and pouring my glass of red wine at night And then you've just got to dig in well Why, what, what were the feelings that you're sitting with before you're thinking about that glass of
[00:28:46] Sonia: Mm hmm.
[00:28:47] Isabella: why can't you sit in that moment? What are you fearful of? Where's this going to go? Where are your thoughts going if you were to sit in there? And often if you kind of dig, you ask that, well, what then? What, what then? [00:29:00] What, what do you feel if you just sit with it then? It often comes down to, sorry, that's my dog.
[00:29:05] Isabella: It often comes down to, um, Oh, well, I'm fear, I'm fearing that I'm missing out, fearing that I'm unlovable or I'm feeling like sitting with yourself home alone can often bring up big feelings you're trying to avoid. And that kind of exercise can play out socially and when you're other people as well. But, uh, Humans, I think, we're complex, but we're also quite basic.
[00:29:32] Isabella: We really desire some very core things around our self esteem to feel connected and loved. And if there's been something in our experience which has challenged that, uh, then there's some wounds there that have yet to heal. And until we process those wounds, um, it's going to really upset our nervous system and we're going to drink to try and put the fire out and soothe those feelings.[00:30:00]
[00:30:00] Sonia: So, yes, I think that I have not met anyone whose core reason was not something around, self esteem, belonging, fitting in, identity, and for sure it was for me. So, what I'm thinking, one of the scariest things to me is a group of mummies drinking wine. So, what
[00:30:21] Isabella: Yes.
[00:30:21] Sonia: to the mummies? What happened?
[00:30:24] Sonia: Where are they now? Did you end up staying friends with them? Did you make new mummy friends that didn't drink? how did you navigate that?
[00:30:32] Isabella: Oh yeah. Gosh. And of course you, that you've, you've hit right on the, probably one of my core beliefs there that was really underpinning why I drank, which is that great fear of not belonging or of being abandoned from my friendships. And I can you know, really call on some examples from my childhood where that would have been triggered.
[00:30:58] Isabella: But, [00:31:00] so yes, I was lucky in that, a lot of those mums were also thinking that they were drinking a bit and they've pulled their own drinking back. And they were, fairly solid in their, their love and protection of me. So, uh, and in fact, um, a lot of that, there was a big friendship group. We all just went wild.
[00:31:21] Isabella: We turned 40 and we all just went mental. It was like our kids are now at school. We've got a bit of time in our hands and we just teenagers again with one another. And for people like me, I, I took it too far. So with those group, that same group that I was doing all of that with, in fact, we're getting together this weekend.
[00:31:44] Isabella: Um, but this time we're getting together to go for a trail run, uh, and then sit at the beach and connect very differently. So I, I was I was lucky in that sense to be able to [00:32:00] allow it to play out in quite a healing way in my friendship groups. Now there is though, of course, another break, breakaway friendship group that, uh, still have big parties, still really socialize in that way.
[00:32:15] Isabella: And I was included a little bit, but no, that that's kind of fallen off that, that that's fallen off. And, uh, There is still a part of me, I'm not going to lie, that thinks, Hey, why, why aren't I still connected? Why aren't they inviting me? I can still have fun. In fact, I'm more fun. But if I really was to sit with that and journal it out and reframe it, I'm a bit grateful that I'm not, because, um, Yeah, the conversations are repetitive.
[00:32:44] Isabella: You often get stuck with that alcohol bill at the lunch. It's
[00:32:50] Sonia: I live in a small town in Pennsylvania, and it's pretty,
[00:32:54] Isabella: Oh, you are, you are on that. Sorry. You are in the state. You are in the election state.
[00:32:59] Sonia: [00:33:00] that's, yeah. So I, yeah, it's a small town. No. And, um, and it's pretty heavy drinking. It's mostly people, like a lot of them are retired and they have a lot of parties. And so I went to a New Year's Eve party, started like around nine.
[00:33:17] Sonia: So it was progressive. It went from one house to the next, to the next. So we get
[00:33:20] Isabella: Oh, yes. I remember those. Mm. Mm.
[00:33:23] Sonia: my God. Yeah. And I think, ah, look at me just killing it with my phony Negronis. Like I'm just crushing this party. By the time we get to the third house, people are trashed. And I walk in and one of my neighbors mistakes me for the only other Indian girl at the party. He was like, Hey, how you doing Anita? And I was like, you've gotta be kidding me. And I
[00:33:50] Isabella: Oh dear.
[00:33:51] Sonia: I. I'm gonna I'm gonna exit before you say something else and I have to see you tomorrow and it was sort of the vibe of the party like people [00:34:00] were getting they were drunk to the point where they were going to say things they that were offensive or they didn't remember and so I got home at like 1115 on New Year's Eve and I'd never been happier.
[00:34:11] Sonia: I and actually it's so funny. I saw that guy today when I was voting
[00:34:14] Isabella: But voting booth.
[00:34:17] Sonia: I saw him today and I was like, hey Bill, who do you think I am today?
[00:34:21] Isabella: yeah. You remember those things don't you? And it's. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's a. It really lands because perhaps I don't know about you, Sonia, you probably had it together a hell of a lot better than I did, but I, I, I was an idiot. I was that last one on the dance floor with a cigarette in my hand.
[00:34:43] Sonia: No, I I was the one saying to like my, my husband's friends, wives, like, I heard he's cheating on you.
[00:34:50] Isabella: Oh yes.
[00:34:53] Sonia: ex husband now and he would be like, what did you, I
[00:34:55] Isabella: Oh yeah. I've
[00:34:56] Sonia: Or I would ask people, I keep asking [00:35:00] people if they had cocaine, I just go around and ask, do you have any cocaine, you got any cocaine, anybody have
[00:35:05] Isabella: Let's keep this going. Let's keep this going.
[00:35:08] Sonia: embarrassing.
[00:35:09] Isabella: It is. It is. And it kind of comes from that desire to, I think, and I'm not justifying it, but to, you want the party, you want the connections to go deeper. You really want to get, you want it, the desire is to connect and you think you want it to continue.
[00:35:26] Isabella: You want this party to keep going. Um, Yeah, and it just goes exactly the wrong way. Oh,
[00:35:35] Sonia: so my, so that night I get home on New Year's Eve and I have these go to like self care things or things I know I'm going to do when shit goes south. And so one of them is I know, I know I always have a show I'm going to be watching on Netflix and I always have like ice cream in the fridge and I always have mocktails and popcorn.
[00:35:53] Sonia: And so those are my like low level self care. home from a crappy cocktail party and I'm like, [00:36:00] meh, I'm gonna watch Bridgerton and like eat mint chocolate chip. What are some of your self care
[00:36:07] Isabella: I like yours. Your household sounds very cozy and lovely.
[00:36:11] Sonia: I live
[00:36:11] Isabella: I want to be at. I want to be in my pajamas with popcorn watching Netflix.
[00:36:17] Sonia: Yeah, you can only do that when 46 year old woman.
[00:36:22] Isabella: yes, I, look, I think, exercise at all costs in, in my, it just has to be, five to six days a week of exercise. Pretty varied fun routine. I need my sneakers and I think my mood just hits a bit of a low and that's probably part of it Because I think alcohol is that searching out for dopamine.
[00:36:43] Isabella: So Exercise has to be there and really good nutritious food. It just in a in an easy way I'm meal prep and it's healthy and And it's, it's, we've got this meal plan system. It's called Marley [00:37:00] spoon. You still cook it
[00:37:01] Sonia: Oh, we have Marley Spoon.
[00:37:02] Isabella: yeah, that that's just works for me in my household. I wish I could say I've got a pretty consistent, uh, grounding meditation practice, but I don't, but it's, it's there.
[00:37:16] Isabella: Uh, and I'm trying to bring it into my life. So a seven minute gratitude meditation. But, what I have become a whole lot better at is just knowing when I am activated. So, I'm a big fan of Jolene Park and her approach of the bottom up, That, yes, we can do a lot of cognitive work and that's, that's important.
[00:37:41] Isabella: But, The source of it all is our nervous system and our neurotransmitters. So these days, unlike, right at the start, I'm pretty clued into when I'm at a beautiful calm mode and there I'm making good decisions, or I flip my lid as Jolene says, [00:38:00] and you're in, activated mode. And that can be from a conversation.
[00:38:04] Isabella: It can be from, not doing my exercise and all the rest of it. So knowing when I've, I'm in that mode, I'm now really good at regulating and just asking the questions, what's going on behind the scenes there? What am I, what's, what core belief is this triggered? And it's usually a core belief around connection.
[00:38:25] Isabella: You know, all of those things we've spoken about. I also know that, that I've got that ability to kind of drill down into work and go down a rabbit hole. So I've got a very, important reminder to myself that I need to pull out. and connect with a friend a day. So once I do that, if I connect, keep that routine, all things seems to be going pretty nicely and, and it's pretty balanced.
[00:38:57] Isabella: Um, it's not always [00:39:00] the case though, it was sort of ebbs and flows. And I think it's, can be the case with a lot of drinkers, ex drinkers that you tend to be, you tend People, you're all on a nice healthy self care routine. All or you're not, you're in bed with salt and vinegar chips and Tim Tams and Netflix.
[00:39:21] Isabella: Uh, and don't get me wrong, I do that. I, I, I hit those moments where. I find myself at the shops getting my chips and my, my Tim Tams and all I want is to watch is or whatever show it is at the moment, I've always got a lot on the boil. And I think that's a, that's an indicator for me. That's a real indicator that some, something's off balance and Bit of a red flag to go easy.
[00:39:47] Isabella: Let, I mean, do it have, have the Tim Tams, but knowing that the next morning I always wake up feeling a shit, and it's time to get the sneakers back on. So that's the routine. [00:40:00] There's no quick fixes. It's just keeping things in balance. I think.
[00:40:03] Sonia: I think it's so important. I think a lot of us ex drinkers have this tendency to isolate. Yeah. When we're going through a tough time and so making yourself reach out to a friend like I make myself do it I really do I force when I can feel that i'm spiraling a bit and like things are going around in my head I reach out to somebody and Talk it through and it's like oh my god What was I?
[00:40:27] Sonia: Yeah, and I think that's, even if it's not, it doesn't have to be a sober friend. for me, it's like my sister in laws and like, yeah, I feel it's so important to have that
[00:40:38] Isabella: Yeah, it, it, it, yeah, it really is, and I think you've hit on it there, uh, those, the withdrawing, the avoiding, uh, self soothing in other ways. And I think, drinkers aren't, not everybody, but not so good at processing and And [00:41:00] that's the emotional sobriety and resilience. And often if we're, we've been avoiding with alcohol for years, we've got, it shows up in many other avoidant behaviors in our life.
[00:41:11] Isabella: People pleasing, scrolling, emotional eating, the sugar, trying to control outcomes, you know, trying to, cause you, you're wanting to keep the peace, make everybody happy or perfectionistic behavior. So all of those, there's signs that And if you're a drinker that self soothes, you're often ticking the box for many of those other things as well.
[00:41:32] Isabella: So it's good to become aware of that because you're, there's things you you're not processing that you just need to learn the skills, call a mate, journal it out, whatever you need to do to get those feelings out in a different way.
[00:41:50] Sonia: Yeah, you touched on that workaholic tendency, which I think is one of those coping mechanisms. So can you tell us a little bit about How [00:42:00] an alcohol free lifestyle changed your passion and, and, yeah. Mm
[00:42:08] Isabella: I was a good litigation lawyer, but I would probably say I wasn't particularly passionate about it. I was certainly that person standing around. Maybe, you know, there's more, there's more to life than just these advices and court work. So probably a part of my drinking was an avoiding of alcohol.
[00:42:31] Isabella: of a feeling that I was lacking a sense of purpose. And then that comes down to probably not having a strong sense of self, um, that comes to, which a lot of drinkers don't have. So when I was, had quit, has had quit the law, and my alcohol had ramped up. There was part of me that kind of knew [00:43:00] that something had to give.
[00:43:00] Isabella: I do need, we all need structure and a bit of external validation outside of my family structure. So I did see a career counsellor and it was the best thing I did because this is before I'd hit that rock bottom. She said, you're just ticking all the boxes. They do all those questionnaire things.
[00:43:16] Isabella: I love it. and, was a, a career that came up there and it kind of worked. I thought, yes, I could do that and work from home and look after the kids. So the seed was planted and when I was in the treatment center, I started studying to become a counselor and this was well before I studied under Annie Grace and Jolene Park, but that really, me really.
[00:43:47] Isabella: Um, lit the fire and I think in hindsight because it was teaching me about self esteem and confidence. I was trying to heal myself and work out what was, what was wrong. what, where was [00:44:00] this identity that I was looking for? we all sort of do that. And I, I have no doubt I transferred my avoidant behaviors into studying.
[00:44:09] Isabella: That then became what I threw my attention into. but the, at least it was a healthier version, a healthier
[00:44:18] Sonia: Mm
[00:44:18] Isabella: Uh, but yeah, it being on the other side of that problematic tug of war with alcohol has. just enabled me to work in a career that means a lot to me and really fulfills me. It connects with my purpose, allows me to continue on studying.
[00:44:45] Isabella: And is manageable in my life. So I can still keep the balance on other sections. Like I couldn't do that with law. It was just a hundred percent law, but, but here there's a balance. So touch wood. It all continues kind of [00:45:00] working. You know, I can still learn. I can still learn. There's always things to learn in this sphere of counselling.
[00:45:07] Isabella: Got my family. Got my exercise, got my personal growth and they are my values, my core values, and if I can live in alignment with those, then things feel, feel right. And
[00:45:20] Sonia: Yeah.
[00:45:21] Isabella: when things are out of balance, that's when we, we had that internal friction that we soothe with. So if I can keep it feeling good. Then, um, then I'm a happy lady.
[00:45:33] Sonia: I think that's a great spot to finish. So can you tell us what is new and what is on the horizon for you?
[00:45:40] Isabella: Oh, well, thank you, Sonia. well, the, the two things that I do, I, I run six weeks, alcohol free challenges with, in small groups of women. so what are we now? We are. I'm the 6th of November, but you might still be the 5th, I imagine. Are you the 5th of [00:46:00] November? so we're day 6 of our November Alcohol Free Challenge, and that is my passion.
[00:46:05] Isabella: That's one of my favourite bits of my counselling practice at the moment. next one's in February. and And I have a six week, um, alcohol free course that's solely online and self paced. So that's the online version, and my challenges are the, the live version, the face to face version. and They're the things I love.
[00:46:28] Isabella: I'm always improving and tinkering with it as I learn more.
[00:46:32] Sonia: That sounds amazing. We will link to all of that in our show notes and thank you so much for being here. Bella.
[00:46:39] Isabella: Oh, thank you. And Sonia, just for, um, asking the good questions, getting in there. it's wonderful. It's always food for thought allowed me to think about things I haven't thought about for a while. So thank you. It's been a, it's been a lovely, lovely hour.
[00:46:55] Sonia: And thank you for listening to Sisters in Sobriety and we'll see you next [00:47:00] week.