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NET Society is unraveling the latest in digital art, crypto, AI, and tech. Join us for fresh insights and bold perspectives as we tap into wild, thought-provoking conversations. By: Derek Edwards (glitch marfa / collab+currency), Chris Furlong (starholder, LAO + Flamingo DAO), and Aaaron Wright & Priyanka Desai (Tribute Labs)
00;00;16;01 - 00;00;19;04
Aaron
We've got our second consecutive two time guests. Welcome, G.
00;00;19;07 - 00;00;21;24
Pri
Welcome, G it's so good to have you back.
00;00;22;00 - 00;00;35;09
Gmoney
Thank you. It's good to be back. I know we were. There was some scheduling conflict, and I think you guys sent, You sent the invite to an email that I no longer use. Didn't show up on my calendar. So, actually, I was supposed to be here a month ago.
00;00;35;14 - 00;00;40;25
Chris
You could have be poof. You could have been the first two time. I know that you're the second. Second time guest.
00;00;41;02 - 00;00;50;04
Gmoney
I have to admit, when I, when I was listening to your your episode from this week and I was like, he was the first. I'm like, that could have been me. But that isn't.
00;00;50;06 - 00;00;52;01
Chris
You could have been somebody.
00;00;52;03 - 00;00;57;20
Gmoney
I know, I know. Now I'm. I'm, destined to a life in the permanent underclass.
00;00;57;21 - 00;00;58;13
Aaron
Yeah, right.
00;00;58;14 - 00;00;59;06
Gmoney
It is what it is.
00;00;59;13 - 00;01;07;13
Aaron
How are your attempts to get out of the permanent underclass? How's that going? Is is everybody in, Web3 now? In the permanent underclass? Is that what I'm hearing?
00;01;07;16 - 00;01;40;21
Gmoney
I maybe, I don't know. I, you know, it's it's funny because, like, I've been spending so much time on this, just, like pretty much everybody here on the pod, and it's just been really interesting. It's been like a lot of, like, it's a lot of, like, starting over, like working on something like, for instance, I think over the over the last couple days I've been working on some like backtesting stuff, and trading strategies and Codex five for just came out yesterday and then I just had it audit my backtesting code and it was like, oh, here's some like critical flaws.
00;01;40;21 - 00;02;05;08
Gmoney
And then we're like fixing it and like rerunning the back tests and it's like, you know, just starting over again. And I think one of the things that I'm trying to still get used to is being able to say, all right, like, let's build this knowing that I'm probably going to rebuild it again because I'm going to mess it up, and then I'm going to sit there and be like, okay, like, let's just start over from scratch, because I'd rather do that than like rework the code.
00;02;05;10 - 00;02;28;05
Gmoney
But it's been it's been good. Like I find it very, very entertaining. I haven't really been watching any television at all. Like I barely, you know, it's like I just been, like, leaving the house to to go to the gym and forcing myself to be social, here and there. But like, it's been, it's been awesome. Like, I feel like I've been, like, super hyper productive.
00;02;28;08 - 00;02;47;05
Gmoney
And then like, other times, I'll feel like, oh my God, I'm not doing enough. Because, like, you know, everybody has access to this and they think it's like kind of going, going between that dualism and that anxiety of the humanism and then being like, okay, like everything's going to be okay. And like those two extremes that I hit multiple times a day.
00;02;47;08 - 00;02;53;21
Aaron
I think everything's going to be okay. But I'm glad you're you're on phase one of your psychosis that that you're heading towards.
00;02;53;24 - 00;03;08;07
Pri
Did you feel behind like you do realize how far behind actual normies are, right? G like you're literally at the top 0.01% of this technology. I feel like, I don't know, I can't yeah, I know.
00;03;08;09 - 00;03;24;28
Gmoney
I, I totally agree with that. I think one of the things that I've been like trying to do in the, in the few times I had been being social is like, I think we all live in this echo chamber of we're all the tip of the spear in terms of like where we are in the top right, like we're all first adopters.
00;03;24;28 - 00;03;52;14
Gmoney
We're moving very quickly. We see stuff within hours of it coming out and then like, I'll, I'll hang out with somebody in their 20s and what do you use AI for? And they'll be like, oh, like it replace Google or it helps me with writing or whatever. I remember I was I was having dinner with a group of people, and this one girl was telling me how she was taking a class that she paid $500 for, to learn how to make a website for her business.
00;03;52;16 - 00;04;09;24
Gmoney
And I was like, all right, I need a screenshot. What's what's the Instagram for your business? And so then I took a screenshot of it, and then I gave it to my open class while we're sitting there. And it made a landing page for her business in like three minutes. And she was like, what?
00;04;09;26 - 00;04;10;14
Pri
Wait. So yeah.
00;04;10;14 - 00;04;11;13
Gmoney
So it's like you're.
00;04;11;14 - 00;04;14;10
Pri
Picking up girls with your open class swag.
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Gmoney
That's that's a.
00;04;15;05 - 00;04;16;09
Aaron
Real money right.
00;04;16;09 - 00;04;18;25
Gmoney
There. I wish, I wish that was the case.
00;04;18;29 - 00;04;20;27
Aaron
But no, it didn't close the deal.
00;04;21;00 - 00;04;46;17
Gmoney
That did not close the deal sadly. But but you know it just like but I think it's just like a good like point that like kind of keeps me grounded in that. It's like, you know, I'll be like, oh my God, everybody has access to this. And like most people don't know what to do with it. But like I will say like more I have had like a bunch of my friends asking me like, oh my God, like literally three weeks ago being like, what is cloud code to being like?
00;04;46;17 - 00;05;10;24
Gmoney
I just automated this part of my job in like, you know, two, three weeks that like that. Never that never happened with crypto usually, like when my normie friends were hitting me up on something, it was like, oh, yeah, like, tell me about this token. And it's like, oh, damn it, it's over. Like, sell everything. But I feel like it's just like the adoption is happening faster because I think people see the productivity gains and like, what can happen.
00;05;10;26 - 00;05;33;15
Aaron
I think it crossed the Rubicon probably like last May. Right. And it's just been disseminating out. But I think even yesterday. Right. And drop it to its credit, like published a pretty extensive report, talking about in its estimation and its researchers estimation, you know, like what percentage of different categories of work it believes it can competently, tackle with some of its models.
00;05;33;15 - 00;06;04;10
Aaron
And it was significant, right. It was like you know, 20 plus percent for a number of like, you know, white collar type jobs. And their conclusion there, it was pretty much just like it's all there if you know how to wield it. It's just not adopted yet. So I just feel like that's going to be the the big thematic for, you know, for the next couple of years, probably like it just as more and more people begin to use this in their day to day and and like what you were describing, just like, getting getting it more and more efficient, we're getting more and more efficient at different tasks that you're doing or have
00;06;04;10 - 00;06;11;08
Aaron
been assigned to do, just like every week, you know, like 10%, 20% more efficient every week, something like that.
00;06;11;11 - 00;06;39;11
Gmoney
Yeah. I think also the thing that I've been like, starting to become better about is like, you know, obviously everything like these things are coming out and updating almost on a daily basis. And then it's like, okay, what do I need to learn? What do I not need to learn? You know, and then because I feel like sometimes I'm getting, for instance, this is one thing I ran into this week I keep I don't know if I'm alone in this, but Claude in Chrome like does not work for me.
00;06;39;18 - 00;06;41;06
Gmoney
And I like we'll go.
00;06;41;07 - 00;06;42;29
Aaron
Like why?
00;06;43;02 - 00;07;00;05
Gmoney
Like I'll be like, hey, like, go to the site and, you know, do this and a like, no, I can't access Cloud in Chrome. I'm like, yes you can. It's turned on. And then it's like, no, I can't. We go back and forth and we'll go back and forth like 3 or 4 times before, it will on its own be like, okay, I'm going to use clay.
00;07;00;05 - 00;07;20;10
Gmoney
Right. And whatever. And so like I've now started just using playwright directly, instead of cloud in Chrome, even though I feel like cloud in Chrome works a little bit better when it does, but I feel like I'm like losing time and stuff like that where it's like, it's almost like I am agent management of being like, no, you can do this right?
00;07;20;10 - 00;07;22;00
Gmoney
Or like, just like this thing.
00;07;22;02 - 00;07;23;04
Aaron
Took off broke.
00;07;23;09 - 00;07;25;15
Gmoney
Like, let's fix it, right?
00;07;25;18 - 00;07;44;28
Aaron
Yeah. I think, you know, the two calling stuff. I think that on the I'm pretty sure like it feels this way at my guess, I feel like, Claude kind of like that meters out. It's intelligence during the day during like, high throughput periods. So they say that they're giving you, like a top model if you've selected it.
00;07;44;28 - 00;07;53;11
Aaron
But I don't think that they are. I think they like rate it to like their, their like, faster, lower reasoning models. So maybe that two GM and those there's a.
00;07;53;11 - 00;07;55;24
Chris
Lot of dark arts in the cloud stack.
00;07;55;27 - 00;08;10;19
Aaron
Yeah. It feels that way like more so than like other other ecosystems. I think that they they're just trying to like keep up with all the demand that I imagine that they have. I don't think it's like nefarious necessarily. That's probably like the best that they can do. What do you think's happening there, Chris?
00;08;10;21 - 00;08;37;08
Chris
They have a quantized version of the model. And so that's that's one thing. Like if you ever watch, how good the cloud models are, like the first couple of days they come out and then how they fall off that that's like quantization where, you know, they're basically compressing all the input in and there's some loss units and dropping that happens around that, that process.
00;08;37;08 - 00;09;03;18
Chris
So I think that's one thing I do think there's more than that. I do think, you know, they might like some call out to, you know, lesser models. It really kills me because I had a great week with, opus 46 last week. And like I call it the PhD to the fourth grade or problem. Right. And it switched over to the fourth grade or where like, yeah, I'm doing a ton of, like, design and spec work right now.
00;09;03;20 - 00;09;23;05
Chris
And it just it gotten to this point where it could barely keep up with me. And all it was capable of doing was like reframing what I was asking for without moving the ball. And so I was like, all right, you're out the window. My big problem is the entire GPT five series cannot write text to save their lives.
00;09;23;05 - 00;09;46;11
Chris
Like, I was like, okay, let's see if I can actually freaking write. And it's like, no, it just creates bigger long it longer. Outlined in bullet list. And so like in my own work, I always have to jump between the two where the, the reasoning and, you know, the like pushing things forward and actually like, you know, doing the design where we want to I give it a scaffold.
00;09;46;13 - 00;10;22;15
Chris
Like I have to give that to, GPT models. And then once it services all of that, then I actually have to pass it back over to a cloud model to write the spec. And so, yeah, you know, that tends to be my workflow is I'm always balancing between the two based on how performant they are. And you know what what specific task I get to do and like, the GPT series or their remarkably consistent, you know, like, I feel like it tends to take them maybe a week to tune and optimize or like, you know, get it fully performant.
00;10;22;15 - 00;10;29;00
Chris
And then once it's been out like a week or two, those things are just rock solid. Whereas anthropic, it's always all over the road.
00;10;29;03 - 00;10;50;23
Aaron
Yeah. I just think you're I mean, this is coming at it more and more kind of use cases, just like using multiple models to get an answer is pretty great. You know those math problems, which I tend to I've been tracking them. They're called Erdos problems. And so yesterday, you know, a top mathematician came up with another, closer step to a solution.
00;10;50;23 - 00;11;12;05
Aaron
And the way that they did it was by basically creating different agent personas that were debating it. And I think using a couple different models, including some of the newer stuff from OpenAI. Chris. So it just feels like that's the flow. It's like, that's the like ensemble approach to things, which is also why I just think you, you probably do want to use whatever the best version of whatever you can get your hands on.
00;11;12;05 - 00;11;20;12
Aaron
If you're if you're churning through some pretty challenging, issues and problems, not, not some of those low rung, open source models, at least at this point.
00;11;20;15 - 00;11;27;00
Chris
Yeah. You, you got beef with some of these, open source models? Is there lingering resentment in the air here?
00;11;27;03 - 00;11;28;21
Pri
Are we going there now?
00;11;28;21 - 00;11;29;10
Aaron
Let's not go there.
00;11;29;16 - 00;11;48;21
Chris
I do have Kimi two vog in my stack is my, my word. So. Writer. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I find, like, the open source models I like to use for specialty tasks lend a particular flavor of them. You know, either solves a use case or is, just excels at something or does it in a style I enjoy.
00;11;48;21 - 00;12;04;01
Chris
And so, you know, like for video, I still like and I'm, like, dating myself really bad by like a year at this point, but like one, two, one. I really kind of like the style and wildness of that. Give me two five. I like it's narratives, you know, like.
00;12;04;01 - 00;12;06;02
Aaron
If I heard it's good for propaganda.
00;12;06;04 - 00;12;11;15
Chris
I imagine it's imagine all of these machines are amazing at propaganda. I mean.
00;12;11;18 - 00;12;12;22
Aaron
Yeah, probably.
00;12;12;25 - 00;12;16;21
Chris
Except grok was like, grok somehow. Can't figure it out.
00;12;16;23 - 00;12;37;01
Aaron
Still lost. It's too honest. He'll answer any question. I did run into an issue where, like, Claude wouldn't answer a question for me this week, and I kind of felt like some of that debate that I think is percolating up at, like the higher levels, like I was asking just for some factual information about, you know, like professors at universities and like, which positions they supported.
00;12;37;01 - 00;13;05;04
Aaron
And Claude just refused to answer, answer me. I couldn't get around it. I was it was kind of interesting and like, in my view, didn't feel like that, like of a, you know, like, like pressing question. It was just like, kind of like a pretty straightforward, reasonable question to, to kind of ask. I just refused, like, no matter how many times I tried to, like, get around it, I tried to debate with it, you know, try to reframe it, try to use like a Palmer lucky like type approach, didn't it?
00;13;05;07 - 00;13;11;18
Aaron
It wouldn't get around it. So the controls are definitely getting like more intense around some of these things.
00;13;11;21 - 00;13;33;12
Gmoney
Along I guess, like along those same lines is I think it's interesting the back and forth I haven't been paying that much attention, but kind of like the deo w it's a, it's a deal in anthropic, you know, where it's like they're like, we're not going to do it. And now they're like coming back to the table. And then I think I just saw a headline that Trump said, yeah.
00;13;33;12 - 00;13;36;08
Aaron
They're like, yeah, we'll do it. Yeah. They're like, yeah, what do, what.
00;13;36;13 - 00;14;06;24
Pri
Do you see. Did you see like the leaked memo that Dario sent. And he was like he said something along the lines. I think he clearly was like mad. But he basically said that Sam Altman got contracts. Is he donated to Trump and like, basically praised him in a dictatorial way or something. And so he had this like internal memo of Dario saying this to staff, anthropic got leaked and Trump obviously reacted poorly to it.
00;14;06;24 - 00;14;27;15
Pri
So like it exacerbated exacerbated the situation. And Dario to go on TV and basically be like yeah like listen it was a tough day. We just, you know whatever whatever we the W thing. And then so he had to like walk that back. So it's just like it's kind of crazy that this is like what's happening. It's like the government is now engaged with like a private company.
00;14;27;15 - 00;14;47;16
Pri
And this like extremely public media back and forth over using technology for whatever way they want. It's just I feel like, has there ever been like, precedent for this? Maybe there has been it's just always been in like private settings. But it feels like truly like this public private public drama play out.
00;14;47;18 - 00;14;49;26
Chris
It's Diggy two fact for nerds.
00;14;49;28 - 00;14;50;11
Pri
Literally.
00;14;50;17 - 00;14;52;06
Aaron
Who's biggie? Who's Tupac?
00;14;52;08 - 00;15;04;23
Chris
Well, that's the problem because Sam is, probably more diddy than than anything. And I certainly can't really put biggie or Two Vag and Dario in the same room. Here is.
00;15;04;23 - 00;15;08;15
Aaron
Alex. Karp, sugar Knight. Let's map out the characters that.
00;15;08;18 - 00;15;22;08
Gmoney
Well, okay. I think the better. I think the better analogy is Game of Thrones. I like, I like, heard all this drama and I'm like, yeah. Who like, what Game of Thrones characters are these people like? I feel like Sam is like a little thing.
00;15;22;08 - 00;15;24;24
Aaron
Yeah, yeah, he definitely is. He's got elements of that.
00;15;24;27 - 00;15;26;10
Pri
Sam is Littlefinger.
00;15;26;13 - 00;15;29;17
Gmoney
Yeah, he's just like, so unlikable.
00;15;29;20 - 00;15;44;24
Chris
The way I think that makes Dario Sansa. Right. Like a little, naive and actually turns out to be the master manipulator. Yeah, I could see that. We need to get rid of the effect of altruism and go back to the real world.
00;15;44;26 - 00;15;50;24
Aaron
The Chinese models or the White Walkers, just like, dumbly jumping at the wall.
00;15;50;26 - 00;15;55;29
Gmoney
Who's okay, who's Trump and then who's who's grok? Who's Elon?
00;15;56;02 - 00;16;01;20
Chris
Grok is Hodor. It's just all muscle and control and controlled by a warg.
00;16;01;22 - 00;16;04;22
Aaron
But what was the iron bank? What was the bank?
00;16;04;25 - 00;16;06;15
Chris
Yeah. The iron. Thanks. The video?
00;16;06;18 - 00;16;08;12
Aaron
Yeah, that's definitely the iron bank.
00;16;08;15 - 00;16;26;28
Chris
Iron bank was the best, like, character on that show. It was just, like, amorphous. Like everyone fully recognize the threat power of it, you know, like and like they could never ruin the iron bank because it only appeared in certain moments. You know, it was one of those, like, really beautifully withheld, type of entities.
00;16;27;01 - 00;16;32;08
Aaron
Yeah, completely. What's Google then? Are they are they the what's Google.
00;16;32;10 - 00;16;42;25
Chris
Google's like the Free City. It's like they're they're like the places across outside the Seven Kingdoms that are just like so much that clearly better than the Seven Kingdoms, they can be bothered to get down in it.
00;16;42;27 - 00;16;45;08
Aaron
Yeah. They're not in the mud. They're just rising above it.
00;16;45;10 - 00;16;49;15
Pri
This is the who's the guy that, like the eunuch, the guy whose dick they chopped off.
00;16;49;17 - 00;16;50;09
Chris
Zahra's.
00;16;50;09 - 00;16;54;06
Aaron
I'm gonna hold my tongue on that one. I like how that's your your top question here, pray.
00;16;54;08 - 00;16;55;19
Pri
I'm just trying to mop it up.
00;16;55;19 - 00;17;04;20
Aaron
Yeah, it definitely has, like, a War of the roses Game of Thrones like type veneer to it. It feels that way. There is definitely like a little bit of drama related to the whole thing.
00;17;04;22 - 00;17;10;00
Chris
The competing houses all set in a crumbling state. All right. California.
00;17;10;02 - 00;17;33;15
Aaron
Oh yeah, that's fair, I don't know, I like until I hit that, like, limit. I was just like. Like what? What is the concern here? You're probably gonna want to use like, a whole bunch of models. But then, I don't know, I like, felt that a little bit. I was like, there is like some it is like more reasonable of a position, I think, to kind of know where the limits are that some of these systems, like if they really are deployed in mass, like you probably will get some really weird stuff at the edges.
00;17;33;17 - 00;17;55;09
Chris
So think of it this way, Aaron, professors are like a protected class to the AI researcher community. And so maybe you're just seeing this as like, yes, one of the first instances where this is starting to pop up. And look, it is a valid concern. We've had two different advanced researchers murdered under very like strange circumstances. This year.
00;17;55;12 - 00;18;14;21
Chris
We had the cold fusion guy and then we had, I want to say a Caltech like astrophysicist and that astrophysicist one, you know, they're like, oh, it's like a robbery. And then it's like, no, he lives on a cow, a compound in the middle of nowhere, you know, like it's. Anyway, we don't need to get down that rabbit hole.
00;18;14;22 - 00;18;26;05
Chris
But, like, I can understand why your particular like, desire, you know, to to learn a thing was interpreted as like, Unabomber esque, flag.
00;18;26;08 - 00;18;31;23
Aaron
I mean, dude, it was literally like, just tell me who's teaching what in a university? They're like now.
00;18;31;25 - 00;18;37;23
Gmoney
Well, Aaron, consider yourself lucky. Consider yourself lucky that you're not in London because you could have been arrested for that.
00;18;37;25 - 00;18;40;03
Aaron
You think that's what's coming next? That'd be wild.
00;18;40;05 - 00;18;41;11
Gmoney
Like what you put here.
00;18;41;13 - 00;18;43;22
Aaron
I saw you get arrested, baby.
00;18;43;28 - 00;19;06;24
Gmoney
I saw crazy. Well, I mean, I don't know how true it is that people are getting arrested for, you know, trolling online. And then yesterday I saw, like, a book, a list. I guess it wasn't. It wasn't an official list by, like, a London government agency, but maybe like some think tank or something of like, these are like, considered extremist books, like right wing extremist books.
00;19;06;24 - 00;19;24;18
Gmoney
And it's like, I think like it's just like something like, like the Canterbury Tales was on there, you know? I mean, like it was Shakespeare was on there 1984 and it's like, wow. I'm like, this is like what? What's going on in London? It's like my, you know, in Britain for that matter.
00;19;24;20 - 00;19;35;15
Chris
You got, hey, you got to look out for that. Henry the eighth Thomas More beef. That shit is still simmering from 700 years ago. The UK got to keep the Canterbury Tales locked down.
00;19;35;18 - 00;19;43;23
Aaron
I think they're just worried about, like, social upheaval. And they're just trying to keep things a little bit more stable. To be honest, I don't know. It's a it's definitely a weird one.
00;19;43;25 - 00;20;09;05
Pri
Did you guys watch like Keir Starmer like after Ron. Like slob video of him like walking around trying to figure out like like it was like this like promotional video of like him addressing the Iranian crisis. But it's just like him walking around his office doing nothing. It's like, hello? Yes. I don't know if you guys saw that, but it's just like, I mean, there was a lot of really funny, like and not anti-europe, but just more like criticism critical of Europe memes after the Iran thing.
00;20;09;05 - 00;20;17;19
Pri
But that video was particularly hilarious and like emblematic of the power state of the UK. I thought, I don't know if you guys saw that though, but I'll share it.
00;20;17;22 - 00;20;24;18
Chris
One of the most pointed criticisms of the industry is probably the fact that they said it mostly in London.
00;20;24;20 - 00;20;31;19
Pri
I agree, but it's kind of nice. It's kind of nice. Like there's so many New York finance shows that it is kind of nice to see something else.
00;20;31;22 - 00;21;02;24
Chris
Yeah, I mean, I don't know, like my sense of what's going on over there is, you know, they've basically realized they've like lost a critical mass of industrial dynamism and that controlling, you know, what happens within their own borders. You know, it's just the best way of, I don't know, preserving state power and like institutional power. Like I think that basically decided to, I don't know, infantilized their population because they can't get anything out of them anymore.
00;21;03;01 - 00;21;05;13
Chris
This is Maggie Thatcher's legacy.
00;21;05;15 - 00;21;12;16
Aaron
Like all the AI stuff came out of there, you know, like DeepMind's out of there. Like, I don't know, it's like a super talented population.
00;21;12;18 - 00;21;25;18
Chris
And we we got on that early and we, we bought it out. I mean that's another like, you know, specialty of the UK is find your most valuable properties and sell them as soon as possible to overseas capital.
00;21;25;23 - 00;21;40;17
Aaron
Yeah. Maybe that's one of the issues. They just need to figure out how to invest more internally because I mean imagine if that was all coming out of the UK be huge for them for decades, right? DeepMind probably a top three company, five company in the world.
00;21;40;19 - 00;22;05;07
Chris
Right? Maybe that's that's a bit of a dividing line right there where, you know, the future is, the future is here just not evenly distributed. And, you know, the soda plague, techno feudalism versus, national economies, you know, type of thing, right? Like in the US, AI and the race for AGI is clearly like a national interest.
00;22;05;09 - 00;22;24;27
Chris
You know, it's driving a huge percent of Carfax and GDP right now, you know, whereas, I mean, basically everywhere other than China, you know, it's it's the these, corporate nation states, you know, or corporations that operate with the footprint of a nation state that, you know, have the click the claim on them.
00;22;25;00 - 00;22;44;25
Aaron
Yeah. I think that's a good point. Maybe I'm going to bring this down a notch. But gee, I'd love to hear about like how you mentioned open cloud. Like a couple minutes ago. I'd be just kind of curious, like how you're using it. Like what you're finding it useful for. Like outside of, you trying to, like, impress, impress some folks that you're hanging out with.
00;22;44;28 - 00;22;45;06
Gmoney
Which is.
00;22;45;06 - 00;22;47;05
Aaron
Obviously important, but, like, how do you like.
00;22;47;05 - 00;22;49;17
Gmoney
Yeah. I mean, what other use is there for it?
00;22;49;20 - 00;22;50;06
Aaron
Yeah, that's.
00;22;50;13 - 00;22;55;26
Pri
That's the marketing campaign around that would actually make AI cool. And it actually could help that.
00;22;55;29 - 00;22;57;12
Aaron
Yeah. Completely.
00;22;57;15 - 00;23;02;24
Chris
Yeah. You know, guys, if you leave your house, you can impress an influencer with your AI mastery.
00;23;02;26 - 00;23;15;02
Gmoney
Yeah, with your AI Jedi tricks. But yeah. No. So I kind of I'm still like figuring it out and I think does do I don't think Aaron, you use OpenCV for free and or Chris you guys use it.
00;23;15;04 - 00;23;18;13
Chris
No. You're on a wall a cursor. Hosea. Yeah.
00;23;18;14 - 00;23;57;09
Gmoney
Oh guys. So you guys are all cursor maxis. So I started off like, two months ago using cloud code exclusively on the, terminal on my machine. And obviously, to me, the biggest constraint, just like everybody is that you're, you're glued to your, to your, your machine that, you're doing it on. So when Open Cloud came out, it was really cool in the sense that I could like, talk to it and have it run and be smart and, and still be like, out and like out and about or, you know, running an errand or something or at dinner, impressing people.
00;23;57;11 - 00;24;27;09
Gmoney
And so I started utilizing it there and then I, I tried building something through Open Claw, and then I just realized that, like, it was coming out, like the file structure was really sloppy on the back end. So kind of like the workflow that I've adopted is when I want to build something complex. I do it on my main machine, and I use either Codex or Cloud Code, and I because I feel like it gives me more control over what happens.
00;24;27;09 - 00;25;05;11
Gmoney
And then I've been using Open Claw more as like a really high functioning assistant. So I'm like, hey, like look into this or, you know, like so for instance, I think a great thing is my newsletter. First off, I built my website. I redesigned my website on my own. No devs, nothing built totally with open claw. And then I launched a newsletter and every, every issue of the newsletter so far has been done deeply with open claw integrations and just kind of like usually, like I usually send out, the newsletter on Tuesday afternoons.
00;25;05;11 - 00;25;25;10
Gmoney
And so on Monday night, I'll be like, all right, pitch me what we're going to talk about. And so they go through like, the stuff that we worked on, meetings that I reported, stuff that I've tweeted about, stuff that I've read whatnot, and then come up with, like an idea. I feel like it's almost like, the editor at, you know, some major publication.
00;25;25;11 - 00;25;41;23
Gmoney
It comes to me with like 4 or 5 ideas, you know, pitches for like the main, the main part of the newsletter. And then like all the other ideas of like the first 3 or 4 ideas, I'm like, okay, I like that idea. Give me a rough draft on it and it gives me more of a draft and I give it, you know, feedback, whatever.
00;25;41;23 - 00;26;11;16
Gmoney
And I'd say all in, it takes about like 90 minutes. And it's written in my, in my, in my style because it has, you know, all of my, my content from the last couple of years. And it's been like really awesome in that. But like, I, I haven't necessarily used Open Claw to like, code anything. Like really strong because the first time I tried to do it, are really complex because the first time I tried to do it, it just wasn't giving me the output that I wanted.
00;26;11;16 - 00;26;35;17
Gmoney
So it's like the flow that I've adopted is building the complex stuff on the machine, utilizing open core to then interact with what I built to then almost be is like the interface, right? Because it's like I've been building dashboards, but then it's like a lot of the time it's because I have basically my own discord that it's just me and my open claw, and I'm just like, all right, go fetch this thread.
00;26;35;19 - 00;27;13;18
Gmoney
Go like, tell me, like the update on this. Oh, like, let's go look into this opportunity. Like, give me some feedback. And so it's been really good. I have like you know I monitor my health on there. So I have my health bar, I have a legal bot. I have a research bot. And then my all purpose one that and you know, I have a bunch of different channels where, you know, we have more for context for myself, because I was on telegram initially, and it's just like talking about everything in one thread is just, you know, when I want to go back and, like, find something or whatever, it makes it really, really
00;27;13;18 - 00;27;35;25
Gmoney
difficult. At least when I have like the context channels makes it much easier. So like that's, that's pretty much the flow that I've, I've developed for myself. And I really like it. And I realized either last week or the week before I ran out of credits, on cloud, like with like 36 hours left and I was like, what am I going to do?
00;27;35;27 - 00;27;56;27
Gmoney
Right? And I realized, like, how integrated it was in my workflows of like, I feel helpless right now. And it's it's funny because like, now instead of like, googling something, I'll just like go in and ask my in, like my general channel and be like, oh, like, you know, look up whatever. What's the best hotel to stay at in Miami next weekend?
00;27;57;00 - 00;28;06;01
Gmoney
Right? Or like whatever, as opposed to going to Google. And it's like very it's like a really good high agency assistant. And I like it.
00;28;06;01 - 00;28;18;01
Aaron
I mean, it's kind of like you lost your assistant, right? And you feel like a little bit disoriented because of that. Like I imagine if you were like, you know, or when you had kind of like super celebrity status, right?
00;28;18;03 - 00;28;19;15
Gmoney
That.
00;28;19;17 - 00;28;27;24
Aaron
You know, like, they probably feel disoriented when they, they lose their, like, appendage of their, their, their system. I read a, or.
00;28;27;26 - 00;28;31;14
Chris
You saying this is like when Kim K shows up without her. Like. Yeah.
00;28;31;16 - 00;28;38;25
Aaron
Exactly. She doesn't know what to do. We're all going to have that kind of, support, which is which is actually would be amazing. Right.
00;28;38;25 - 00;28;52;09
Chris
So here's the wild thing. Like, he's talking all this, you remember back in like, the 80s and 90s when people would put things out as like from the desk of, you know, so and so this is like from the open claw of g money. Like his newsletter.
00;28;52;12 - 00;28;56;04
Aaron
Is not even on this call, guys. It's just his open claw talking to us.
00;28;56;06 - 00;29;01;19
Gmoney
He just I love it. Yeah. So you guys are talking to my 11 labs cloned voice.
00;29;01;26 - 00;29;08;16
Aaron
That will be the for the fourth appearance. Will just be that with your, with your crypto punk ape avatar.
00;29;08;18 - 00;29;13;02
Pri
I mean, there has to be actual there has to be podcasts out there that are just like 11 lab voices, right?
00;29;13;10 - 00;29;16;10
Aaron
I don't think it's still good enough yet. What do you think, Chris? Or Jay?
00;29;16;13 - 00;29;26;12
Gmoney
I haven't I haven't listened to it yet, but I know Adam Levi made a Jeffrey Epstein podcast that I think has like a million downloads, and it's totally like, I don't.
00;29;26;12 - 00;29;35;05
Aaron
Yeah, yeah, that was interesting. Yeah, that like ripped for a week or two. That was Adam Levine and the guy from Bitcoin that was in the Bitcoin magazine.
00;29;35;08 - 00;29;40;25
Gmoney
No. It's the minted minted podcast. Levi's.
00;29;40;28 - 00;29;41;28
Aaron
All right. Look at that.
00;29;42;05 - 00;29;57;25
Gmoney
And then he launched another one I think like last week on like the Iran the Iran war based on like the success and I think it's on it's also trending in the same direction that, that the Jeffrey Epstein was, one did. So it's like the numbers are good on that initially as well.
00;29;57;28 - 00;30;28;10
Chris
Yeah. This this is Dennis thing. Know, like a big heavyweight in the podcast industry. Left and started their own, like, sort of, synthetic podcast company in which their strategy is just to flood the zone. And so does my wife works in podcasting is in that space. And they've if they've been through the wringer. Right. Because you know it both like got so big and then it retracted and then the whole AI thing came came right right after that.
00;30;28;13 - 00;31;04;14
Chris
But I don't know. She's saying like the community is a lot, a lot cooler this time around. Cheers. Is that some big event? And doing a bunch of networking. And it's a little less like Sky is falling over in podcasting. Not to say like, you know, it's sunshine and roses by any means, but I, I do think like this was, a segment of the world that kind of got exposed to, you know, the vagaries of, whatever the hell was going through a little earlier and has come to terms with it slightly better, I don't know, like I, we do a lot of, you know, RTS, like Texas speech stuff in, in
00;31;04;14 - 00;31;19;19
Chris
Star holder and like, the voices are good. The in like the pacing. They've gotten better like the 11 labs V three is a step up. It's still it's still uncanny, though. It's at least it's slow. In my experience.
00;31;19;23 - 00;31;45;01
Aaron
It's kind of like this, this piece where I just, inadvertently spoke of you, Chris. It just makes it feel more authentic. It's just like a little. It's, like, hard to kind of get, like, the group conversation down. So, it feels a little bit off. I feel like next year's all going to be about video, image editing and audio just because, you know, even with I was been playing around a lot with like nano Banana two, it is much more steerable than previous models.
00;31;45;01 - 00;32;03;14
Aaron
Like you can generate an image and just be like, move that to the top left and it will just do it, you know, increase the spacing, keep the same background like it's a lot more. It's almost like, like what feels like what we started to get in code like pray, you know, early last year. It feels like that's come to static images.
00;32;03;14 - 00;32;16;06
Aaron
And then I imagine by the end of this year you'll come to video two and then play audio as well. Right. Like maybe you'll be able to like, you know, splice over a couple voices so it feels like a natural conversation maybe, I don't know.
00;32;16;08 - 00;32;43;24
Chris
That is like I think that is sort of the the Turing test is when can you get to those points where these things are producing like such signatures that they're like both grating and endearing at the same time? You know, like if you, you listen to like a certain podcast or long enough, you kind of know when they start getting into their own bullshit and, you know, they start calling themselves out and you get a kick out of that whole thing, you know, because it's somehow relatable.
00;32;43;24 - 00;33;02;03
Chris
Or like every once in a while you're like, you know what? I'm I'm on a flight. I'm in the mood for like 4.5 hours of like, Dan Carlin's nasally voice geeking out about war game shit when he's supposed to be talking about history or like, whatever your particular version of that is, like, you get an itch for that, like, and it's very human.
00;33;02;03 - 00;33;07;04
Chris
And, you know, I think that's something where we're not going to see for a long, long time.
00;33;07;06 - 00;33;09;06
Aaron
Or next year. Well, I can still find that.
00;33;09;08 - 00;33;15;01
Chris
Oh, man, can you imagine someone doing like a Dan Carlin style, like five hour podcast?
00;33;15;04 - 00;33;22;27
Aaron
Sounds great to me. I mean, I don't know, I just think it's like it edges, edges, edges. It crosses the Rubicon. And then like all this open up, all of this opens up.
00;33;22;27 - 00;33;44;08
Pri
So I do think the quality of, like, the video memes, like, you know, I forgot that one guy or girl on Twitter who does like the JD Vance like memes of him, like playing football and stuff like the quality in production is so high. Like, I think I saw someone retweet that being like, I would watch the full feature film of this or even the little babies doing stand up comedy.
00;33;44;08 - 00;34;07;16
Pri
Like the quality has gotten like, like I like, was smiling and like entertained by the video. I don't think that that's happened to me watching I video in like, like that's starting to happen to me now. You feel the quality getting better. You're feeling like even, whether Matthew McConaughey saying that like, this is coming, like start, start trademarking and, you know, your likeness and what have you.
00;34;07;19 - 00;34;30;13
Pri
But like, I, I, I kind of agree with your timeline of like a year the, the quality is going to get insane. Like, it already feels like for some reason, the last three months, the quality of my videos have just gotten so much better. And like, you're seeing real creators, I yeah, I think it is know banana. But the quality and like even the storytelling like some of the jokes and stuff, I'm like, I don't know if if these are AI generated jokes, but like, they're not bad.
00;34;30;13 - 00;34;50;19
Pri
Like those baby jokes are like kind of funny. Yeah. And it's media that's actually fun to watch. I also so like Ben Affleck's, I don't know much about it, even though he had an AI media company, but like back out acquired by Netflix. So, you know, Darren Aronofsky has it has his AI company. But yeah.
00;34;50;22 - 00;35;03;00
Gmoney
I was literally just about to bring that up of how Ben Affleck was on Joe Rogan, like two months ago, being like, we have nothing to worry about. Sells his AI company to Netflix like 30 Days Later.
00;35;03;00 - 00;35;04;29
Aaron
Classic Affleck movie. Yeah.
00;35;05;02 - 00;35;13;15
Chris
We'll probably find out. This is just like a sweetener for him to do. The accountant three you know what I mean? Like, this is like Kobe freaking the taxes.
00;35;13;17 - 00;35;14;16
Aaron
Tax day has come.
00;35;14;17 - 00;35;26;27
Chris
I don't know that Netflix is like UBI for a certain creative class, like bankable gen-xers that they can rope into making flops like Netflix items.
00;35;26;29 - 00;35;29;00
Gmoney
Adam Sandler feels the tax right now.
00;35;29;00 - 00;35;31;28
Aaron
Yeah, I was just going to say, yeah, why are you attacking our boy Adam?
00;35;32;00 - 00;35;38;08
Chris
Adam Sandler, by all accounts, is a really great, great guy. Like one of my partners. It.
00;35;38;08 - 00;35;39;11
Aaron
Seems that way.
00;35;39;14 - 00;35;55;29
Chris
Yeah, like a lot of my partners in my old business, like, he's in the same country club as Adam Sandler and, like, just says, like, glowing, glowing things about what a good dude he is. Like, I think I get it. I'm saying there's a what you see is what you get sort of celebrity spinning around. Has anyone done?
00;35;55;29 - 00;36;04;15
Chris
And I haven't yet, but I'm intrigued by the concept, like these 90s serialized dramas that are starting to like gain gained steam.
00;36;04;15 - 00;36;10;09
Aaron
Oh yeah, I saw an article. Yeah, like soap opera, 92nd, 92nd clip. Soap operas.
00;36;10;09 - 00;36;44;14
Chris
Yeah. Like I wonder if that's like one of these, like, wild things. I learned through osmosis is like, Turkish soap operas are a huge export across, like, South Asia in the Middle East. You know, it's just like these certain, I don't know, sort of like regional media that somehow goes, you know, escapes contain. And I wonder if this 90s, like, drama, drama thing is, is really like the first time, you know, we get past the Rubicon of video slops and into something that actually, you know, resembles, I don't know, like a threat to traditional media.
00;36;44;17 - 00;37;03;00
Aaron
I think it has a shot. Right. Because once you can get consistent characters, you know, you imagine, like the video right now, you can do about 30s. So maybe that scales up to like 90s with like light editing or no editing. I mean, it feels like that's a good place for it to stop. Who's that guy that the Dreamworks guy?
00;37;03;00 - 00;37;06;21
Aaron
I'm blanking on the name of the project. He was like, with that?
00;37;06;23 - 00;37;09;05
Chris
Yeah, that was like a Katzenberg one, wasn't it?
00;37;09;06 - 00;37;19;08
Aaron
Yeah, it was Katzenberg. And I think what, the person who used to run HP, they were like on this a decade ago. Right. And they raised a boatload of money for it, but feels like you just were a.
00;37;19;14 - 00;37;25;01
Chris
Huge flop and a huge flop. Yeah. They were. I guess they were too early. Right idea. Wrong time.
00;37;25;04 - 00;37;31;02
Aaron
Yeah. But, like, seems like when I read that, I was like, oh, wow. Like that era is beginning, right? Which is kind of wild.
00;37;31;04 - 00;38;10;10
Chris
But you know what actually would be a perfect format for this is the Tom Clancy style big global like political action thrillers with multiple characters, multiple sad. Like, you know, the whole we live in a world of like Jack Ryan Amazon slop now. But I think if you like given all like the male monitoring the situation and like where we are in the times right now, I think that actually could be like a very, fertile opportunity, you know, for someone to take this 92nd format and, you know, a couple times a day, you're just jumping, you're monitoring like five different, you know, regional flare ups with your fictitious, like CIA Jack of all trades,
00;38;10;16 - 00;38;14;28
Chris
who Ben Affleck played Jack Ryan at some point. So we can we can close that.
00;38;14;28 - 00;38;31;17
Aaron
I think it's I think it's everything though, too, because even if you think about reality TV, right, like most of it is pretty repetitive and there's a lot of gaps. So they could give you like quick 92nd updates on like a, like a show, especially like those like Amazing Races or alone or there's like a whole bunch of shows.
00;38;31;17 - 00;38;33;20
Aaron
I bet it would adapt pretty well to.
00;38;33;23 - 00;38;58;06
Gmoney
This is, I'm about to bring this back to last week's episode, because I think one of the things that I, I told to from day one, when I learned about what he was doing was, I think to me, the missing like the next evolution is I think is, yeah, what you guys are talking about. But then a step after that is being able to then watch a simulation that nobody knows what's happening and being able to bet on it in real time, much like sports.
00;38;58;06 - 00;39;03;19
Gmoney
And yeah, I think like people will find that very, very, very entertaining.
00;39;03;21 - 00;39;21;08
Chris
We do the Silicon Valley, except we set it in Miami and they head down to Miami thinking it's going to be the next, New York, San Francisco, and maybe it isn't. And maybe they're struggling to make it work. And we're betting on whether or not, like, they're going to blow up Miami, blow up in Miami or not, something like that.
00;39;21;11 - 00;39;45;22
Gmoney
Yeah. Or like even like Love Island, but like, it's all AI agents and, you know, will Timmy win or will Deborah stay with Timmy? You know, like, it's just like, I think the problem with being able to bet on reality because I love reality TV, it's like one of my guilty pleasures. I will watch almost any reality TV show because I think it's just entertaining.
00;39;45;22 - 00;40;04;19
Gmoney
It's you don't have to pay that much attention. And when you pay attention, you're entertained. And so one thing that I would like more because like, yeah, and just like I think it would be great to like bet on even if it was like, yeah, like I'll put like 50 bucks on this or 100 bucks there. Makes me like because that's what I think makes sports so entertaining.
00;40;04;19 - 00;40;29;03
Gmoney
Right? It's like it's 90 to 150 minutes long. You have drama. There is an ending at the end of it for the most part, unless it's soccer. And then, you know, you can like bet on it and you can up the stakes for yourself individually to like the level that you want it. And I think like if you were able to do that with reality TV or even Turkish dramas, I've never seen them.
00;40;29;03 - 00;40;44;05
Gmoney
But like, I think that would be like interesting. Like I think people would really like that and you get kind of like, you know, how much, how much gets bet on the Super Bowl, right? Not that I'm saying like every single one of these would be the Super Bowl, but like, there would definitely be some sort of volume that happens.
00;40;44;05 - 00;41;00;22
Gmoney
Like I wrote about this a couple weeks ago and like somebody reached out to me like kind of like trying to challenge the idea. And then, because he was like talking about MrBeast. I'm like, I don't know the specifics of Mr. Beast and that show and like, who wins and like how they deal with, like, leakage or whatever.
00;41;00;24 - 00;41;18;14
Gmoney
And then he looked it up on couch. And I think that like the who betting on who to win, I think had done like 800,000 to $1 million worth of volume like and I don't know if it was like provably fair, but, you know, I mean, like, was it leaked? I don't know. Right. But like, I think if you could be like, hey, nobody knows what's going to happen.
00;41;18;19 - 00;41;23;10
Gmoney
That's why, like, sports is such a big betting market because you you don't know what's going to happen.
00;41;23;13 - 00;41;30;11
Chris
Right. So provably fair simulation as like, a hyper financialized form of entertainment.
00;41;30;13 - 00;41;36;14
Gmoney
Yeah. And listen, we're all going to need it when we're all on UBI anyways, so you know how. So you can escape the underclass.
00;41;36;17 - 00;42;01;18
Aaron
Don't you think this stuff is going to work? Well just with like, feeds to, I mean, so 90s, let's say in a given reality TV show G right there 20 minutes post commercial about ten minutes of it is like substantive, right? So you could probably roll out, you know, 5 to 6, you know, of these 92nd clips like a day and you know, five days a week and then just turn it out.
00;42;01;19 - 00;42;21;14
Aaron
I bet people would love that because you'd hit them in the morning, you know, evening, afternoon. Putting aside like, whether or not, you know, this is kind of like the, the way, like a poly market pulls in, you know, non sports betting dudes through betting on, reality TV. But I don't know, it just feels like the right pacing to in a weird way.
00;42;21;16 - 00;42;37;12
Chris
The amount of video consumed on the seven train is astronomical. And so like I think for me, I think the 92nd format and multiple times a day is, is is something that like is definitely going to, I don't know, pick up steam.
00;42;37;16 - 00;43;09;09
Gmoney
Yeah, I agree, I think that we kind of see it already when you see like influencers have beef with each other and you know, like you'll be like 32nd to 92nd clips of like, oh, this is why I hate this person, or this is about my break up or whatever. And, you know, like sometimes I'll go down the rabbit, like I'll take yesterday, for example, there was something that popped up on my feed about, Steve will do it from the now Cowboys, and I have no idea who this guy is, but, like, I've heard of the Milk Boys.
00;43;09;09 - 00;43;28;11
Gmoney
He's one of the owners of Happy Dad. And so then, like, he. I guess he had a big fallout with his business partner, and he was, like, public on the timeline about it. And then I think I spent like 20 minutes on TikTok just trying to, like, get to the origin of the beef and like learning about this guy and then seeing other crazy beef he's had in the past.
00;43;28;11 - 00;43;49;29
Gmoney
And like these are all like 62nd to two minute videos. And that was just like consuming for like 20 minutes. Right. And I just think like it's it was just purely me being voyeuristic on the drama and being entertained by other people's shit and then like coming back in the like, yeah, well, you know. Oh yeah. Okay. Cloud code like, yeah, let's work on this next.
00;43;49;29 - 00;44;07;16
Gmoney
Right. And so I think that that's probably like we see a version of that already is just going to become probably much more commoditized with AI because then the four of us could come up and do it. And we don't need to necessarily be in the persona ourselves and live the drama on our own.
00;44;07;22 - 00;44;29;10
Pri
Yeah, I find myself doing that to actually where it's like before better while I'm, you know, waiting on something. I'll just get like in this weird 20 minute rabbit hole of, like, this world. I've. It's almost like a little world model of this, like, faux drama or thing that you're, like connecting dots, reading comments on a tweet to like, figure out what happened in this, like one side quest.
00;44;29;12 - 00;44;45;07
Pri
Like, I think I did that with like the interview mag thing about the finance bro's and spent like 30 minutes on the side quest and then went back to like reading an article again. It's kind of funny how that I mean, I guess that's always been the internet in a way, but like, it feels more pronounced right now, probably because I'm just like waiting for my work to be done.
00;44;45;14 - 00;44;48;11
Pri
And so I have like these like 15 minute increments.
00;44;48;13 - 00;44;54;13
Chris
It's, information gatherer instinct in your brain needs to be filled.
00;44;54;15 - 00;44;55;04
Pri
Yeah.
00;44;55;07 - 00;45;17;19
Chris
The the other side of this, right, is when you're selecting for things you don't care about. And like this happened last time my wife wanted to watch, TV. I was, like, working through some specs. And we ultimately settled on, like, there's this Jon Hamm show on Apple TV. I can't remember what it's called. It's like your friends and neighbors or it's like, just brutal, like affluenza garbage.
00;45;17;21 - 00;45;31;28
Chris
And, you know, it was like that or like Slow Horses, which is fucking awesome. And it was like, oh God, I'd like to watch Slow Horses, but I kind of got to read through this fact. Let's put on the Jon Hamm garbage. Just I can not pay attention to it.
00;45;32;00 - 00;45;36;05
Gmoney
Chris, I think I'm more surprised that your wife lets you be on the phone while you guys are watching television.
00;45;36;12 - 00;45;38;21
Chris
Oh, I'm on the laptop. I'm not even on the song.
00;45;38;23 - 00;45;45;03
Gmoney
Okay, well, I'll, like, not present, like, fully present. Watching the show together. Yeah.
00;45;45;03 - 00;45;50;03
Chris
This is. I feel like I'm saying this is this is one of these, like, compromise situations.
00;45;50;06 - 00;45;53;18
Aaron
Gee, Chris has been there for a while. Let's not forget that.
00;45;53;21 - 00;45;57;09
Pri
Yeah. I'm like, also, I'm like a spare device as well, watching TV.
00;45;57;09 - 00;45;59;20
Gmoney
Dude, I don't know. I've gotten in a lot of trouble.
00;45;59;21 - 00;46;06;00
Aaron
That's been an issue. Just show it. Show them that you can make, make or a website that will just solve it all. That's all you need to do.
00;46;06;00 - 00;46;09;03
Gmoney
I wish was that easy. So if only it was that museum.
00;46;09;05 - 00;46;17;08
Chris
Hey, look, if you get enough romance in your life that, your other is getting, jealous of quad bike, congrats to you. You.
00;46;17;10 - 00;46;34;10
Aaron
Just because I, I wanted to touch on this before we go, but I did. I did read this morning that people are using Cloud bot to connect it to drones so that they could just run like autonomous drone strikes in some capacity. That was like kind of concerning. So G and whatever your journey is, please don't go there.
00;46;34;12 - 00;46;57;04
Gmoney
I it's so not autonomous drone strikes. But a buddy of mine was like one of the things he wanted to build with cloud code was kind of like a house perimeter like system where it's like, oh, yeah, it's like connected to your ring cameras and then like, alerts you if there's, like, movement and it's like monitoring the situation for your house.
00;46;57;06 - 00;47;13;05
Gmoney
And that was like the first thing he wanted to build. And then it's like, oh yeah. And then once you have robots, you have robots like running the perimeter. And I'm like, man, you're building like your own, like compound or like, you know, like I think one of them like mentioned like, oh yeah. And then you have drones also monitoring the perimeter.
00;47;13;06 - 00;47;17;12
Gmoney
I'm like, dude, what are you guys thinking here? You think you're like, you're.
00;47;17;12 - 00;47;19;23
Aaron
Watching too much or something? Yeah. Watching too.
00;47;19;25 - 00;47;25;10
Gmoney
Like like like I don't think you're that important, but it is what it.
00;47;25;10 - 00;47;35;02
Chris
Is. All right. Billion dollar idea. Bass Pro shops for drones, right? We don't need drone strikes. You need a drone that can go out and bring you back a fish.
00;47;35;05 - 00;47;37;01
Aaron
That could work, that could work.
00;47;37;03 - 00;48;00;13
Chris
It could work. I don't know if you could get a big enough fish to be worth eating, though. That's the problem. Like, I don't know if you ever watch an osprey hunt. It is the coolest freaking thing on earth. Because like I used to do this and I, we were out doing research all the time. You'd be in the boat, you look up and there's just this huge freaking osprey hovering, you know, like 100ft above you, up in the air head starting this, this way, to that.
00;48;00;16 - 00;48;17;29
Chris
And then it tucks its wings in and it just dive bombs and then, you know, it pulls like, eight inch fish out of the water. It's the coolest thing. But I could totally see, like, you know, someone doing that with drones in a decade and that becoming a massive recreational thing.
00;48;18;02 - 00;48;34;18
Aaron
I'm sure eventually, like, all that stuff will get smaller, cheaper, less terrifying and moved to consumers, like in some capacity. Like maybe I'll have one just like, floating over in some capacity, surveilling the landscape for you. Kind of like the next version of a GoPro almost. Well, I.
00;48;34;18 - 00;48;53;23
Gmoney
Think we'll probably see it first for people that are just trying to make content, right, because like, you know, rather than pay somebody to follow you around with the camera, just have a drone just follow you around. Right. And just like recording everything so you can get your live stream or content or whatever it is, that's probably like the first iteration of it.
00;48;53;23 - 00;48;56;23
Gmoney
And then like more, you know, more and more people end up doing it.
00;48;56;25 - 00;49;01;29
Chris
I hope not. It during noise kills me. Like if they can make these things silent. Sure.
00;49;02;05 - 00;49;06;15
Aaron
Yeah, they pipe well though, right? Like they'll make them they'll figure that piece out, I bet.
00;49;06;20 - 00;49;08;29
Chris
Oh, they figured out in Ukraine, like you can't.
00;49;09;02 - 00;49;12;23
Gmoney
You're using the Chinese models. We'll be using the Chinese models right there.
00;49;12;26 - 00;49;20;21
Aaron
And I doubt that. Yeah. I mean that is big news if we want to talk with them that Kwan decided to go closed source this week. Did you see.
00;49;20;21 - 00;49;21;17
Pri
That? They did.
00;49;21;20 - 00;49;22;02
Chris
Yeah.
00;49;22;09 - 00;49;46;28
Aaron
So like, they're they're like the top open source model. And for reasons that are still mysterious, they they begin to at least indicate both I think on social media and otherwise that they're going to be moving more towards like a closed source model. So I don't know what that means. Does that mean like some of the anti bot, you know, protections that cloud put in place means they can no longer develop their technology because it seems like they were just spamming and distilling it out.
00;49;47;00 - 00;49;58;04
Aaron
Does it mean that there's a fundamental breakthrough. And maybe they they feel like they can compete there and they want to do that via closed source model? That's it's like a little bit unclear, but definitely some movement movement there.
00;49;58;07 - 00;50;01;15
Gmoney
They also fired the head of the program. Right. Or he left.
00;50;01;15 - 00;50;19;24
Aaron
Yeah. Right. Or he moved to like robotics AI. That was like, it's always kind of hard to kind of pierce through the the information. He's there. But you know, there's just a lot of big moves there. But you would think if they felt like that strategy was working long term and effective, like there wouldn't be that type of internal internal movements.
00;50;19;25 - 00;50;45;12
Chris
I would I would take a different position and say that they did it as an experiment. It it grew to a point where it was commercially significant to them, and that this is more of an inflection point in which, okay, it's time to get rid of, you know, Junior England is, open source evangelist who's a bit of a wild card and bring this under bring this under control.
00;50;45;12 - 00;51;05;22
Chris
I mean, let's not forget, like, Alibaba is also, you know, like Jack Ma's baby. And, you know, he's he's had some issues with the state there. And so maybe this reached a tipping point, you know on a on multiple fronts where like they had to change up what they were doing. But I don't think it's it's one of these it's not working.
00;51;05;22 - 00;51;28;09
Chris
I mean they were like a model factory. And you know, if you're looking for like, cheap applied practical AI, Alibaba, both of those labs, Kwan and oh, I can't remember the name of the one that does the image and all of those, like, you know, they're hitting that tipping point and they're serving that market need. So I would view it a little differently than you are.
00;51;28;09 - 00;51;28;23
Chris
And I.
00;51;28;26 - 00;51;44;02
Aaron
I don't actually know how to view it. I wasn't just something is is clearly happening there. Right. Like maybe it hit that tipping point like you were saying I don't know I don't know what happens. But usually that would be a little bit, I guess more clearly communicated. But it feels like something's that kind of a foot there.
00;51;44;04 - 00;51;50;23
Chris
Well, I mean, we could see meta like completely change their strategy in a couple months as well. You know, this isn't just, I've.
00;51;50;24 - 00;51;51;20
Aaron
Been quiet for too long.
00;51;51;21 - 00;51;56;25
Pri
You think they go closer? Source, I mean, is probably cost a ton of money to be open source for them, right?
00;51;56;27 - 00;52;15;01
Chris
Yeah, I don't know. Really know what's going on there. They had a great run, kind of over in the the vision object side of the world. And like, I do feel like Sam three was, you know, in November was the last big thing we heard out of them, you know, other than, like the Yann LeCun exodus and reshuffling.
00;52;15;01 - 00;52;18;17
Chris
So they are due to, you know, kind of pop up again.
00;52;18;24 - 00;52;41;01
Aaron
Yeah. It feels like they're I, I'd be surprised if they go closed source because I think their, their business actually benefits with more open models. Right. They don't want anybody to kind of have an advantage here because they've got the distribution right there. They're the best there. So the more people can just use this to enhance the meta universe experience, I think the better they feel.
00;52;41;04 - 00;52;53;20
Aaron
But I imagine they're cooking something, right? They have a huge teams that worked on it. And a lot of, you know, even learnings before all this inflection point, a year or two ago. So I'd imagine that they're working on something.
00;52;53;22 - 00;53;18;26
Chris
Yeah. And in a way, it's kind of like, you know, Meta and Apple are similar in a lot of ways in which they don't need, you know, like deep foundational model work, except like the surface areas, they work across it very different. And so like Tim Cook's head is always in hardware product delivery, fulfillment and like of offshore tax havens.
00;53;18;26 - 00;53;44;10
Chris
Whereas, you know, like Zuck works with software that's a lot more plastic. And so like, he's you know, he's someone who needs languages, he needs models, he needs like things to be able to assemble. And so, you know, it kind of makes sense that they've, you know, they're a little closer to this, but they're also not at the foundational level, you know, like they need to be in that realm between like, code and models.
00;53;44;13 - 00;53;52;11
Chris
Whereas, you know, Apple can just kind of sit back and say, okay, well, I guess it's time to pay Gemini and, you know, swap out Siri.
00;53;52;14 - 00;54;12;26
Aaron
I mean, Apple just benefits with open source two, right? Like it? They probably want something just hosted on their device or devices. And then I bet they just make a huge run at the memory layer, right? Like they'll be your wallet for memory. You'll store more and more stuff with Apple. I bet Google will too, and they'll both be in a pretty good position for that.
00;54;12;28 - 00;54;27;11
Aaron
And I think that's what's kind of missing from like cloud and OpenAI and the grok stuff too. Like, I don't know if I want to give Elon, like all of my preferences and memories. Definitely not. At least for me, like like Dario or Sam.
00;54;27;13 - 00;54;48;21
Gmoney
It's funny, I just bought Apple this morning as like an eye play because I just think that, like, they're just gonna have so much cash. And I think the one thing that the open claw stuff has really like brought to the forefront is that, you know, Apple dominates on the hardware side. You know, people trust them for privacy.
00;54;48;23 - 00;55;09;09
Gmoney
They trust them in terms of performance. And all you need really is like one model. And like I think I heard I heard a clip like yesterday before that. It's like Apple's almost like it could be seen as almost a hedge in terms of like edge compute. Because like an edge compute becomes like a huge thing where people are running a ton of local models.
00;55;09;11 - 00;55;31;00
Gmoney
Then like, you need the local hardware, and Apple's probably the best positioned to take advantage of that out of like most in terms of like they they sell on the consumer. You know like I still buy like when I used to trade I used to have windows computers and now like nothing like I my entire life runs on Apple.
00;55;31;02 - 00;55;44;02
Gmoney
And I just kind of feel like they're probably and they haven't really done much, in the price action in the past year. And I'm like, yeah, I kind of feel like it's probably starting to get to a point where it is probably the good, like dark horse.
00;55;44;02 - 00;56;09;00
Chris
I play AG before we wrap up here, we've talked about you clearly have like built a personal staff, family office style, set up with your agents. But you strike me as someone who wants to put these agents to work out in the world. Are you finding opportunities? Both in trading and beyond that, to run an AI employment agency here?
00;56;09;02 - 00;56;10;27
Chris
Or is it still too early?
00;56;11;00 - 00;56;34;04
Gmoney
I'm still trying to figure it out. And I think to me, and like, I love your everybody here is feedback on this too is like I think the hardest part is like what's the most like what's like the most sustainable moat? Because I could let's, let's say I was like, all right, I want to I want to be able to do, portfolio management as a service.
00;56;34;04 - 00;56;54;26
Gmoney
Right. But then, like, what's to stop you from building your own? Like, based on my concepts and, like, the things I share, like, oh, that's cool. All right, reverse engineer this because I feel like that that's what we keep seeing more and more of. And so it's just like it's been hard to kind of be like, all right, well, what do I think is the most defensible business for as long as possible?
00;56;54;27 - 00;57;23;06
Gmoney
Because I don't know how like I personally think this window of opportunity is probably like 18 to 24 months. I was talking to somebody yesterday that's like, oh, I think there's like 7 to 10 years. I'm like, I hope it's 7 to 10 years. I really don't think that that's the case because I think once somebody becomes red killed on the things that they can do with AI, they're like, oh, wait, like, why do I need to pay a lawyer a thousand bucks an hour to review a simple contract?
00;57;23;10 - 00;57;45;14
Gmoney
Right? Or, you know, it's like you go you would go to them for those edge cases, but for the most part, like an illegal land could do, like 95%, it could cover 95% of like contracts that like I would deal with. And so I keep finding that that's to me like the hardest part. Like, I know some people have been like, oh, can you help me?
00;57;45;14 - 00;58;13;14
Gmoney
And like, have offered me like kind of like consulting and, you know, advisory type stuff, which like, is interesting, but it's also it's like, I don't know how sustainable that is and is really just trying. I've been trying to figure out what I think has the most sustainability, and me being able to do something because like, I think we just keep seeing more and more of like somebody build something, then it just gets open source, like within like 48 hours and I'm like, oh, okay, cool.
00;58;13;14 - 00;58;32;28
Gmoney
Like, you know, here's a GitHub repo. What should we add to our stack based on like, you know, what's in here. Right. And I've been doing that left and right being like, oh this is interesting. Okay. Do you think we should like add this to, our setup and if so, why? Right. Or if so, why not? Right.
00;58;32;28 - 00;59;00;20
Gmoney
And so I'm curious what you guys think. Like my, my thesis has kind of been the two things that I see like most sustainable are leaning in some building a brand and like a human, like the, the human leaning into being a human right. And like for me, it's like, yeah, just being authentic, continuous, continuously being curious, exploring new things and, you know, just being honest with like, you know, I get frustrated with this.
00;59;00;23 - 00;59;21;08
Gmoney
I love it. It's awesome. But there are times when I want to like, bang my head against the wall and I'm tweeting about it like, a lot, as opposed to I feel like sometimes I see people post stuff on on X that's like, I'm going to have AGI by next week. And like, you know, my thing is doing $1 million IRR like within two days.
00;59;21;08 - 00;59;50;22
Gmoney
And they're like extrapolating like one hour's worth of sales when they first launch. Right. And it's like, yeah, well like, you know, you're just doing this for clicks. And I think so one I think is just building like a really authentic brand that focuses on being a human. And then two is, I think, finding boring industries and putting like an AI overlay on top of it and just, you know, collecting the the operating leverage that you get from that because like, I think like, like software is going towards zero.
00;59;50;22 - 01;00;06;17
Gmoney
So it's like you want distribution and you want to be able to do stuff in the real world where there's it's a little harder, right? Like if you own a piece of real estate, it's like, you know, you can't. I can't spin one up just because, like, I like where you live. So that that to me is like where I've seen some of.
01;00;06;17 - 01;00;13;21
Gmoney
I'm curious what you how you guys are viewing it, but I think that that's what makes it so hard to, like, figure out a business model around this.
01;00;13;23 - 01;00;31;19
Aaron
Yeah, I'm still like bullish long term software for the reasons you mentioned. Like, I just don't think a lot of people want to bang their head against the wall. Like they're just happy to get it out of the box. If it works really well. And I just think that there's there was all these vertical SaaS companies like donkey saying not to pick on one, but like they did a great job, right?
01;00;31;19 - 01;00;49;14
Aaron
Like we needed electronic signatures. They fill that need. It was a huge need for it. They streamlined it. They crushed it. But then they haven't really like, evolved their platform. And, you know, at least the past couple of years and, and now they're just, you know, going to get rolled up into like some horizontal play of some sort.
01;00;49;14 - 01;00;54;27
Aaron
But like, I don't think everybody wants to sit there and build their own, you know, signature service like in the background.
01;00;54;29 - 01;01;14;28
Gmoney
But I guess I would say that DocuSign is probably maybe a little more defensible, because if somebody sends me a link like, I'm not, I don't think I'm I click on very few things that get sent to me. Right. And so like a DocuSign link, like, I mean, how many phishing attacks have you gotten pretending to be DocuSign links where it's like, I'm like, yep, nope.
01;01;14;28 - 01;01;31;21
Gmoney
Not going to not even going to click on that. Right. And so it's like that, like if you sent me a link being like, hey, this is my personal document signer, electronic document signer, I'd be like, nice try, Aaron, but like send me a docu sign, right? Or whatever. Like, I don't even know what the other ones are.
01;01;31;24 - 01;01;55;08
Aaron
But that's like a combination. It's like a combination of brand distribution. Right. But I just think, you know, like DocuSign may expand into other areas, right? Like why why do you need they have a trusted name when it comes to these contracts. So maybe they expand to do something like Harvey does at some point, and they'll probably do a pretty good job at that, because they understand their customers and are going to listen to them and get feedback, like in an aggregated way.
01;01;55;08 - 01;02;18;07
Aaron
So like if I individually and building like a DocuSign, like, I'll solve it for my problems, but I may not solve it for everybody's problems. And maybe some someone's problems today are going to be my problems tomorrow. So I don't I don't know, I still feel like the fundamental like concept of software makes a ton of sense. I think that there's we're going to I think we're seeing it right now with the AI models where they're starting to self improve.
01;02;18;09 - 01;02;34;18
Aaron
And I do think that that's like a new form of a mode where let's say you pick one of these categories and your system is just like constantly getting better. It's going to be really hard to start, you know, and catch up, without like throwing a lot of bodies at that or like building like a better self improvement system.
01;02;34;18 - 01;02;53;10
Aaron
So I do think if you have like reasonable distribution and your, your system is like compounding in terms of improvements, like some, you know, high percentage every day, every week, like it becomes pretty hard to catch up to, to kind of that flywheel. So that's like another area, I've been kind of interested in, I think, Chris, you kind of nailed it.
01;02;53;10 - 01;03;10;25
Aaron
It's just like a lot of these models are going to be like where a lot of the new software models are just going to be token resellers, right? Like they're going to be, you know, the electric toaster to the electrical, you know, power plant that sits underneath it. But more people want the toaster. They don't really want the, they don't care about the power plant.
01;03;10;25 - 01;03;14;09
Aaron
Right. Like they want it to be there, but they don't really care about it.
01;03;14;12 - 01;03;47;17
Chris
Yeah, I mean, I don't listen to all this. I feel like agents have kind of opened the door for shared knowledge graphs to become the moat, right? Like I've always felt. I felt that when this thing really kicks in, it's going to be around like networks of of shared interests in which you all have, you know, some form of like, collectively owned information that you can both contribute to and draw on.
01;03;47;20 - 01;04;18;14
Chris
And the problem for me, like around that problem was always the interface layer of like how, how are people actually going to be bothered to contribute from this? And how can they get meaningful, like interact with it in ways that produces like meaningful artifacts, information, whatever for them? And, you know, like because that that's, I think really, really been hard to do in sort of like a distributed, decentralized way without, you know, the the looming tyranny of the algorithm.
01;04;18;20 - 01;04;38;11
Chris
Right? Like, you know, how how do we get away from a TikTok style thing into, you know, like, is TikTok is like a huge knowledge graph at the end of the day, right? Like, how do I how do we like, make that more accessible and actionable and honorable? And so, like, I realize I'm talking in a lot of extractions.
01;04;38;16 - 01;05;03;26
Chris
Let's just take like wellness as an idea, right? Like people who are into wellness are really into wellness. And it becomes a whole lifestyle for them. You know, if you're someone who's really into wellness, I'm not sure you're necessarily all that excited after, like, you know, meditating or being on a retreat, you know, to then, go back to your computer and write up like a 40 minute, you know, bundle of information around how you felt.
01;05;03;26 - 01;05;43;25
Chris
And, you know, all these things are aligning. But if you had, you know, whatever, like this cloud bot, form factor starts evolving into that can both passively experience that, like wellness alongside of you just say you've got like an aura ring or something on while you're you're meditating and you know, you're geotagging your location, you're pulling all this stuff in and that like, if you can really kind of like streamline that package that's going into the knowledge graph to the point where, like, the only thing you actually need to do is, you know, record a 92nd voice memo after the fact of like, in which you put your personal stamp on there.
01;05;43;25 - 01;06;24;23
Chris
Like, I think that becomes incredibly valuable in a new nexus of like, community formation in a very, very sticky mode that can kind of like build and grow over time. Like that, to me, is like one area that, like, I've always been really fascinated by. But like the the hardest part to solve around that, right, is that friction of like participation of, like putting in and pulling out and I do think like this agenda set up and, you know, what we're seeing like the very start of with open claw, clobbered, etc., ultimately becomes like that way for people to get in and out of these knowledge graphs without like, having to do
01;06;24;23 - 01;06;25;21
Chris
a ton of work.
01;06;25;23 - 01;06;43;21
Aaron
Yeah, I think that that framing makes a lot of sense. Us too, I don't know, I like I think that I don't know, J. I just feel like there's a lot of doom or psyop, dumber slop, as pretty likes to call it. So I think it's honestly going to be okay. Like, maybe things don't change that much.
01;06;43;24 - 01;06;45;17
Aaron
Things just get like a little bit more efficient.
01;06;45;19 - 01;06;49;07
Gmoney
I think I just read a little too much of a good Alexander. Yeah.
01;06;49;10 - 01;06;51;01
Pri
Yeah, dude, it'll be fine.
01;06;51;04 - 01;06;52;02
Aaron
Who's there for.
01;06;52;09 - 01;06;53;04
Pri
Like, me?
01;06;53;07 - 01;06;54;10
Aaron
Like, honestly? Yeah.
01;06;54;13 - 01;07;10;29
Gmoney
A little lag may bring back the lag days. I think it's just one of those things where it's like, prepare for the, like, hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. So I think, like, I'm overall optimistic. And I think that, you know, I think humans are where as a species we're very creative and we'll figure out a way.
01;07;11;01 - 01;07;31;12
Gmoney
And, you know, some people will figure out ways faster than others and they'll they'll be something. But, you know, I just also sometimes it's like, I think I think Chris said it, I think last episode or a couple episodes ago was like the most you can do is just like, put your kids in a position so that if they want to, procreate in the future, they can.
01;07;31;14 - 01;07;41;12
Gmoney
Right? And it's just like, yeah, like, you work where you work. Yeah, we're here to work your ass off for that. And, and then live the best, happiest life you possibly can.
01;07;41;14 - 01;07;41;21
Aaron
Yeah.
01;07;41;21 - 01;07;55;28
Chris
Thousand, for example. We're all just, biological machines designed to make copies of ourselves. If you if you just get down to, like, the nitty gritty of what what you're about and focus in on that, maybe, maybe you're doing enough, Chris.
01;07;55;28 - 01;07;57;26
Pri
You had to say it in that clinical way, too.
01;07;57;28 - 01;08;00;12
Chris
Oh, it just take all the agony out of it. Free.
01;08;00;12 - 01;08;02;21
Aaron
There's no agony. Just biologic machines.
01;08;02;21 - 01;08;06;15
Pri
Yeah, just carbon copies of other biologic machines.
01;08;06;15 - 01;08;09;05
Chris
Love it. Copies of copies of copies.
01;08;09;05 - 01;08;31;04
Aaron
Which we're now connecting to. Elms. Did you guys see this? Two. Did you see this just today when they started connecting, AI systems to brain cells like, in petri dishes, and they're able to, like, have, the brain cells, control, like, the our, some pretty wild stuff that's happening on our biologic, copy machines.
01;08;31;04 - 01;08;32;01
Aaron
Chris.
01;08;32;03 - 01;08;38;24
Chris
God, we're going to we're going to get down to the head. The head in the jar with, Yeah, man. Wires stuck into it, man. They have.
01;08;38;24 - 01;08;39;10
Aaron
Pretty much.
01;08;39;16 - 01;08;42;26
Gmoney
Futurama, baby. Yeah, yeah.
01;08;42;29 - 01;08;47;09
Chris
Or like all those, like, spacer navigators. That's where people are going to end up.
01;08;47;11 - 01;08;50;11
Pri
Yeah. I have been waiting for the Jetsons for a very long time.
01;08;50;14 - 01;08;51;24
Aaron
And a lot of people have their.
01;08;51;27 - 01;08;53;09
Chris
Welcome to net society.
01;08;53;11 - 01;09;21;01
Pri
Yeah. Sorry. Welcome to net society. Today we have me, Aaron, Chris and special guest G money. We're talking all things digital life, culture, AI, tech and more. Just as a reminder, these thoughts and opinions are our own and not of our employer. And none of this is financial advice.