Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Welcome to “Should I Call a Doctor?” The podcast where we dive into trending health topics to separate fact from fiction. We bring in experts to talk about all things health, to empower you with knowledge and answer your questions hosted by Inova Health.
Speaker:
Welcome to Should I Call a
Doctor?
Speaker:
The podcast, where we dive into
Speaker:
the questions you have about
Speaker:
your health and today's trending
Speaker:
health topics.
Speaker:
To separate fact from fiction.
Speaker:
I'm one of your hosts, Doctor
Samuel Cowley, an internal
Speaker:
medicine physician at Inova.
Speaker:
I'm Tracy Schroeder.
Speaker:
I lead communications for Inova.
Speaker:
Doctor Sam will give you the
clinical perspective while I ask
Speaker:
the questions that keep patients
up at night.
Speaker:
Doctor Satish Shashidhara is our
Speaker:
division chief of child and
Speaker:
adolescent psychiatry at Inova
Speaker:
Health.
Speaker:
We're very excited to speak with
you.
Speaker:
Thank you for having me.
Speaker:
This is a hot topic, right?
Speaker:
And my perception of it being a
hot topic is social media news,
Speaker:
talking to colleagues, friends,
maybe my own direct experiences.
Speaker:
Are you seeing that in reality?
Speaker:
Am I just is this purely a
perception?
Speaker:
Or are you seeing in your
practice that adolescent mental
Speaker:
health really is and has become
more and more of an issue now
Speaker:
than it used to be?
Speaker:
I think we're better at
identifying it.
Speaker:
Right.
Speaker:
And so I think it's become an
Speaker:
issue because we're just better
Speaker:
at recognizing that Eventually a
Speaker:
problem, right?
Speaker:
I think these everything existed
ten, fifteen, twenty years ago.
Speaker:
It's just we were notoriously
bad at it.
Speaker:
We didn't talk about it.
Speaker:
You look at I mean, we look at,
Speaker:
you know, TV shows, sitcoms like
Speaker:
movies from early two thousand,
Speaker:
right?
Speaker:
Mental health was just often
said.
Speaker:
It was kind of talked about in a
pejorative way.
Speaker:
Right?
Speaker:
It was there was a joke that was
made of it.
Speaker:
And at the same time, kids were
struggling.
Speaker:
Um, the reality is, you know, up
to thirty percent of kids are
Speaker:
going to have an anxiety
component at some point.
Speaker:
You know, between five and
twenty five percent of kids are
Speaker:
going to suffer from depression
at some point.
Speaker:
So it's a it is a problem.
Speaker:
I think we like I said, we're
Speaker:
just better at identifying it
Speaker:
now.
Speaker:
Um, which is, I think a good
thing overall.
Speaker:
Right.
Speaker:
We, uh, want to make sure that
we are doing the things that we
Speaker:
can in our community to make
sure these kids are identified
Speaker:
and that we can actually do
something about it.
Speaker:
Because we do have good
treatments.
Speaker:
We do have good options.
Speaker:
Um, but we have to see them
first, right?
Speaker:
Um, to an extent.
Speaker:
We deliver some care in schools,
right?
Speaker:
I think we're getting better at
that in terms of, like, we're
Speaker:
asking teachers to do more.
Speaker:
We're asking coaches.
Speaker:
We're asking peers to figure out
Speaker:
if their friends are doing well,
Speaker:
and then they bring it to our
Speaker:
attention.
Speaker:
Um, but without that help,
we're, you know, we only can see
Speaker:
the kid that's in front of us.
Speaker:
Um, that's a the short answer
is.
Speaker:
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker:
It's it's become an issue.
Speaker:
And I think we're going to keep
Speaker:
seeing it because of multiple
Speaker:
reasons.
Speaker:
Like you said, social media is a
major one.
Speaker:
I have plenty of thoughts on
that.
Speaker:
Um, but post Covid, I mean, even
the kids that I'm seeing that
Speaker:
are, you know, getting into high
school now, who went through
Speaker:
Covid when they were in third
and fourth grade?
Speaker:
Um, they're still struggling
because you still lost a year of
Speaker:
social development, right?
Speaker:
Um, it doesn't necessarily go
away.
Speaker:
You catch up because kids are
resilient.
Speaker:
You catch up.
Speaker:
But, um, you do have to make a
little bit of concerted effort
Speaker:
and relying on parents and
teachers and friends to kind of
Speaker:
help you do that.
Speaker:
So you mentioned social media,
but I want to take it initially
Speaker:
from a different angle, which is
there's so like parenting
Speaker:
advice, parenting content is
that's a big business and there
Speaker:
is a lot out there.
Speaker:
How do you recommend that
Speaker:
parents best support their kids
Speaker:
and their sort of mental and
Speaker:
social development?
Speaker:
Um, but it's going to sound sort
Speaker:
of trite, but it's really it's
Speaker:
like you have to be somewhat
Speaker:
emotionally available for your
Speaker:
kids, right?
Speaker:
Um, I think we on social media,
there's so many different
Speaker:
influencers saying, you know,
thirty different things and, you
Speaker:
know, there are twelve different
ways to parent and according to
Speaker:
whoever you speak to.
Speaker:
Right.
Speaker:
But, um, it's tough love.
Speaker:
It's a it's a softer, gentle
Speaker:
parenting, like free range
Speaker:
parenting versus authoritarian
Speaker:
parenting versus sort of that
Speaker:
what we think about, like when
Speaker:
we think about what is has the
Speaker:
most evidence.
Speaker:
We talk about something like
authoritative parenting, right?
Speaker:
So it's like you're emotionally
available.
Speaker:
You're setting appropriate
boundaries because you're an
Speaker:
adult, you have seen things that
these kids have not.
Speaker:
I can't expect a six year old to
Speaker:
make the best decision for
Speaker:
themselves.
Speaker:
It's like I have a five year old
niece.
Speaker:
She would eat candy every day.
Speaker:
She has.
Speaker:
She throws up.
Speaker:
It's fine.
Speaker:
She doesn't put them together.
Speaker:
That is a problem, right?
Speaker:
So it's like, okay, we have to
Speaker:
do something to make sure that
Speaker:
she's, you know, sitting within
Speaker:
certain boundaries.
Speaker:
But we also give a bit of an
explanation, right.
Speaker:
So for parents, it's like you
set the boundary, but you don't
Speaker:
say it's like it's this way
because I say so.
Speaker:
It's this way because this is
why we're doing these things.
Speaker:
Um, and you can do that for
everything, right?
Speaker:
It's like you give them a
reason.
Speaker:
You make sure that they're kind
of involved in the decision.
Speaker:
Um, but when it comes to, like,
push comes to shove, but they're
Speaker:
going to talk to the person who
says, like, okay, they're
Speaker:
willing to speak with me.
Speaker:
They're not going to just tell
me, you know, sit down, stop
Speaker:
doing what you're doing.
Speaker:
Right, right.
Speaker:
They're going to tell you why
something's happening.
Speaker:
Exactly.
Speaker:
Um, so I think parents, we ask
them to start the conversation
Speaker:
early, um, so they don't have to
see us, right?
Speaker:
It's, um.
Speaker:
We're here if you need it, but
Speaker:
we want them to say it's like,
Speaker:
you know, I want to set up a
Speaker:
relationship.
Speaker:
They, you know, kids feel free
Speaker:
to go to their parents when they
Speaker:
are struggling.
Speaker:
They go when they're, you know,
doing well.
Speaker:
Of course.
Speaker:
Right.
Speaker:
You like to see kids share
whatever is going on.
Speaker:
It's like if they get a good
Speaker:
grade on a test or they're
Speaker:
performing well in soccer or
Speaker:
whatever.
Speaker:
It's like parents are.
Speaker:
They want to see that.
Speaker:
Um, but we also want them to
Speaker:
say, like, I'm not doing so
Speaker:
well.
Speaker:
Kids notoriously have poor
Speaker:
language when it comes to
Speaker:
emotions, right?
Speaker:
So they may not necessarily tell
you.
Speaker:
Right.
Speaker:
Um, but this is where parents
can come in and say, hey, I
Speaker:
notice that something feels a
little bit off.
Speaker:
It's like, are things going
okay?
Speaker:
It's not judgmental.
Speaker:
It's not punitive.
Speaker:
It's just it's like, hey, I
notice something's different.
Speaker:
Can you can you tell me what's
going on?
Speaker:
Um, that by itself opens the
door.
Speaker:
And then we always will tell
parents, especially with
Speaker:
adolescents, you can kind of
share a little bit more.
Speaker:
It's like if you struggled with
Speaker:
something, it's okay to tell
Speaker:
them.
Speaker:
It's like, hey, this is what I
Speaker:
noticed and was like, this is
Speaker:
what I dealt with a few years
Speaker:
ago.
Speaker:
It's like, does that does that
sound similar?
Speaker:
Yeah.
Speaker:
Are you having that experience?
Speaker:
I know you normalize the said.
Speaker:
It makes them feel like you're
not alone in this.
Speaker:
This is actually a very normal
feeling, like anxiety is a
Speaker:
normal part of life.
Speaker:
Like sometimes you will have it
and sometimes you won't.
Speaker:
But it's it's natural to kind of
Speaker:
feel that way at different
Speaker:
times.
Speaker:
And I think it's, you know,
helping.
Speaker:
I have three kids.
Speaker:
And so for me, I'm always
talking to them about like
Speaker:
recognizing when you do need
support beyond just like talking
Speaker:
it through with mom or dad.
Speaker:
Um, and sometimes there's
moments for that.
Speaker:
But I think, you know, what
Speaker:
you're saying is like, we're
Speaker:
here if you need you, but
Speaker:
there's things that parents can
Speaker:
do to kind of make sure those
Speaker:
communication lines are open as
Speaker:
can be, as they can be from the
Speaker:
start.
Speaker:
Yeah.
Speaker:
Because I mean, when you're
working with us, it's like half
Speaker:
of my job is just education.
Speaker:
Like I talk a lot, right?
Speaker:
But half of that is with kids.
Speaker:
Half of that is with the
parents, like coaching them.
Speaker:
Most of my time is just kind of
explain this.
Speaker:
Like, this is how we got here.
Speaker:
And it's like, these are the
things that you can do because
Speaker:
you're the one who knows your
kid best, right?
Speaker:
It's like, if I know a kid for a
week, it's like I might have a
Speaker:
decent understanding of what's
going on, but I can't possibly
Speaker:
know everything, right?
Speaker:
I am not going to have as good
Speaker:
of an intuition about what's
Speaker:
going on with your kid as you
Speaker:
are.
Speaker:
Um, so it's like we're kind of
telling you, it's like, this is
Speaker:
what we're looking for, and, you
know, your kids, so your kid's
Speaker:
going to be different than your
friend's kid, right?
Speaker:
It's like, if it's if they
present a little bit
Speaker:
differently, that's okay.
Speaker:
If your friend's kid, like,
Speaker:
wakes up at nine a m on a
Speaker:
Saturday, great.
Speaker:
If your kid wakes up at noon on
a Saturday, that's not
Speaker:
necessarily a bad thing.
Speaker:
It's, you know, it might be
thrilling.
Speaker:
Yeah.
Speaker:
It's totally it's totally
Speaker:
expected for, like, a teenager,
Speaker:
right?
Speaker:
Um, so we know that, you know,
your kid's best.
Speaker:
Um, and we know that we're going
to tell you what to look for,
Speaker:
how to manage certain symptoms
that come up, or when to maybe
Speaker:
get them help, too.
Speaker:
Right.
Speaker:
Because, like, even if they
leave us, it's like, it's not
Speaker:
that the work is done right.
Speaker:
It's just like we may not be as
involved helping you with the
Speaker:
tools to continue this at home.
Speaker:
And we'll hook you up with
Speaker:
someone who can help along the
Speaker:
way.
Speaker:
But most of it's most of it's on
you.
Speaker:
And that can be scary.
Speaker:
But you're you're equipped for
it, right?
Speaker:
Right.
Speaker:
And and are you finding I know
several years ago and certainly
Speaker:
right after Covid, we were
seeing a lot of media and just
Speaker:
hearing a lot about how, you
know, support for these types of
Speaker:
things was really hard to get
because it was so busy.
Speaker:
The demand was so high that it
couldn't be met all the time.
Speaker:
How is that now?
Speaker:
Do you feel like now we're able
to see patients more readily and
Speaker:
we have, you know, the ability
to intervene faster?
Speaker:
Or I think the good news is in
Speaker:
this area, we do have a lot of
Speaker:
resources.
Speaker:
Um, I think we are doing better
now than we did a few years ago.
Speaker:
And I remember that wave.
Speaker:
Or it was it would take weeks to
Speaker:
months to get someone into a
Speaker:
clinic, to get someone into a
Speaker:
more intensive outpatient type
Speaker:
program.
Speaker:
And we're not seeing that as
much anymore.
Speaker:
Um, so the help is help is
there?
Speaker:
Um, we do ask parents to do hard
things sometimes, and that might
Speaker:
be it's like we might ask you
to, you know, take your kid at
Speaker:
ten a m to an appointment just
because that's what's available.
Speaker:
And I think it's really
important to focus on the mental
Speaker:
health right now.
Speaker:
Um, and we can always change
Speaker:
that later, but try to get them
Speaker:
hooked up.
Speaker:
Right.
Speaker:
So, um, you know, with, uh, with
Speaker:
Inova, we have our Keller
Speaker:
Center, right?
Speaker:
So we that is our our major
Speaker:
outpatient program for children
Speaker:
and adolescents.
Speaker:
So we have outpatient
Speaker:
therapists, we have outpatient
Speaker:
psychiatrists, we have the
Speaker:
partial hospitalization.
Speaker:
We have the intensive
outpatient.
Speaker:
We have group therapy.
Speaker:
We have family therapy.
Speaker:
There's a lot that's there.
Speaker:
Um, sometimes parents don't know
what to ask for.
Speaker:
Um, and so getting hooked up
with someone can kind of lead
Speaker:
you to, you know, they can
quarterback what you might need.
Speaker:
Um, but the I think the
Speaker:
availability is definitely
Speaker:
better now than it was a few
Speaker:
years ago.
Speaker:
Expect a waitlist, but it's not
so bad.
Speaker:
Well, because sometimes I think
Speaker:
when parents are calling at that
Speaker:
point, they feel like they're in
Speaker:
crisis and there's some urgency
Speaker:
to it.
Speaker:
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker:
Um, the one thing that we do
Speaker:
well in Northern Virginia is
Speaker:
like, we do like universal
Speaker:
screenings, right?
Speaker:
So every every quarter,
basically we do screenings in,
Speaker:
like, for safety in school, and
we see a rush of kids come to
Speaker:
the emergency room.
Speaker:
And if you're coming into the
Speaker:
emergency room, that's not a bad
Speaker:
thing.
Speaker:
It doesn't mean that you're
going to go inpatient, doesn't
Speaker:
mean that things are escalating
to a major point.
Speaker:
It's just we need to figure out
Speaker:
what type of help you might
Speaker:
need, right?
Speaker:
Most of those kids, we are
Speaker:
hooking up into some sort of
Speaker:
outpatient program.
Speaker:
Um, so we wouldn't do that if we
felt that there was this, like,
Speaker:
clear, imminent risk, right?
Speaker:
Is that we can't go home.
Speaker:
It's like we know we can find
you something, right?
Speaker:
Um, but we just have to know
that there's a problem, that
Speaker:
something's not going well, so
we can actually do that, right?
Speaker:
Um, easier now to get someone
into something than it was in
Speaker:
twenty twenty one, for sure.
Speaker:
That's great.
Speaker:
What is what is the most common
Speaker:
thing you are seeing or called
Speaker:
for?
Speaker:
So it's always going to be some
change in function, right?
Speaker:
That's that's the biggest thing.
Speaker:
And that's all a medicine,
right?
Speaker:
Is that there's a change in
function.
Speaker:
Something is not going how it
Speaker:
used to be for us in terms of we
Speaker:
think about diagnoses just like
Speaker:
it's a constellation of
Speaker:
symptoms.
Speaker:
Right.
Speaker:
But broadly like anxiety,
Speaker:
depression by far the most
Speaker:
common.
Speaker:
Um, and we were saying earlier,
you know, up to thirty percent
Speaker:
of kids will have some sort of
anxiety symptoms by the time
Speaker:
they reach late adolescence up
to, you know, fifteen to twenty
Speaker:
five percent of kids.
Speaker:
Now, those are what we suspect.
Speaker:
I think probably seven or eight
percent are actually diagnosed.
Speaker:
It just means that we're not
seeing it.
Speaker:
Yeah.
Speaker:
Um, but in terms of what we see,
anxiety and depression, anxiety
Speaker:
is the most common.
Speaker:
So that's where parents will
tell.
Speaker:
Depending on the age group,
Speaker:
they'll tell us different
Speaker:
things.
Speaker:
Right.
Speaker:
They might say it's like my kid
seems like really restless or
Speaker:
they're really, really worried
to go to school or it's like all
Speaker:
of a sudden they're having
headaches or stomachaches.
Speaker:
And it's like, you know, our
doctor's telling us there's
Speaker:
nothing going on.
Speaker:
And so those are really common
Speaker:
appointments, especially on the
Speaker:
outpatient side.
Speaker:
And are there, um, specific.
Speaker:
Well, I'm sure there are, but
Speaker:
what are the kind of clearest
Speaker:
themes that you see seem to
Speaker:
underlie these?
Speaker:
You know what you're seeing the
Speaker:
anxiety and depression and and
Speaker:
would you suspect or do you
Speaker:
suspect that that is the same as
Speaker:
it was twenty years ago, thirty
Speaker:
years ago?
Speaker:
So we kind of think about things
in in stages of development.
Speaker:
Right.
Speaker:
And it's like, what are we
Speaker:
expected to do at every stage of
Speaker:
life?
Speaker:
And that doesn't stop at
adolescence, right?
Speaker:
As like young adults, we're
Speaker:
trying to figure out, like,
Speaker:
what's the question we're
Speaker:
answering, right?
Speaker:
Is like, can we be successful in
careers?
Speaker:
Can we like form a family?
Speaker:
Can we form relationships?
Speaker:
Things like that?
Speaker:
Um, but every, you know, every
Speaker:
sort of age group has their own
Speaker:
question.
Speaker:
And especially in kids and
Speaker:
adolescents, it's, you know, can
Speaker:
I be can I kind of maintain this
Speaker:
industry basically can I do well
Speaker:
in school?
Speaker:
Can I do well in sports?
Speaker:
Can I do well in something?
Speaker:
And then adolescents like, well,
Speaker:
people outside of my family like
Speaker:
me, right.
Speaker:
It's like, will I have friends
Speaker:
will like, will they actually
Speaker:
like want to do something with
Speaker:
me.
Speaker:
These are kind of major
questions.
Speaker:
And if you're struggling at
either of those categories,
Speaker:
that's when you might see a
surge of some of those symptoms.
Speaker:
Right.
Speaker:
So I don't think that's very
different from where it was
Speaker:
twenty years ago.
Speaker:
The school is a huge part of it.
Speaker:
Like the number of kids I have
Speaker:
is like, I got a B-plus in
Speaker:
exams.
Speaker:
Like, that's great.
Speaker:
And they're like, oh, you
realize like, oh, you don't
Speaker:
think that's great, I got it.
Speaker:
Um, but it's, you know, there's
there's such high expectations
Speaker:
of themselves and they kind of
like, well, okay, everyone
Speaker:
around me is really, really
gunning for this, like straight
Speaker:
A's or like four point oh GPA,
that sort of thing.
Speaker:
Like, every honors, every AP
Speaker:
class, you know, and, um, if
Speaker:
they feel like like, I can't
Speaker:
keep up with that, it's like,
Speaker:
that doesn't mean that you're
Speaker:
successful.
Speaker:
It doesn't mean anything.
Speaker:
Right?
Speaker:
It's like, that does not mean
Speaker:
you're not going to have a
Speaker:
successful life.
Speaker:
Like, um, but kids will kind of
take that route and can spiral
Speaker:
and catastrophize and so
relationships school, I mean, if
Speaker:
they feel like they're having
issues with family or family is
Speaker:
disappointed or anything, right?
Speaker:
Um, those are all the same
Speaker:
things that I think on a usually
Speaker:
your deal.
Speaker:
Well, I think that's such an
important point to especially in
Speaker:
this area, there's so much
pressure and it's not a four
Speaker:
point oh isn't good enough.
Speaker:
You could get up to a four point
Speaker:
eight or like, you know, and so
Speaker:
the kids know that and they feel
Speaker:
so much pressure to and yeah, to
Speaker:
your point a b plus a B minus
Speaker:
those feel like really like, oh
Speaker:
this wasn't my best work or I'm
Speaker:
going to get in trouble for this
Speaker:
grade or this is going to
Speaker:
reflect on my college
Speaker:
transcript.
Speaker:
But I think, you know, at times,
probably some of that pressure
Speaker:
comes from the parents.
Speaker:
And I think it translates to the
kids putting it on themselves.
Speaker:
And and I think your point is
really good is like, you're
Speaker:
going to have a great life,
you're going to have a
Speaker:
successful life, even as you
know, with these.
Speaker:
And I think back, you know, to
my own, I'm like, I wasn't
Speaker:
always straight A's, I think.
Speaker:
But like, but we think our kids
Speaker:
should be sometimes and that's
Speaker:
not realistic.
Speaker:
Yeah.
Speaker:
I mean it is it is tough.
Speaker:
And so these are the things
Speaker:
where I will I will have
Speaker:
conversations like very frank
Speaker:
conversations with families
Speaker:
about, you know, setting
Speaker:
expectations.
Speaker:
And it's like, what is the worst
Speaker:
that happens for some of these
Speaker:
scenarios?
Speaker:
And I'll just kind of put it on
them.
Speaker:
I was like, I'm not going to
answer.
Speaker:
I need you to tell me.
Speaker:
Um, because it's honestly, it's
Speaker:
a cognitive behavioral process
Speaker:
too.
Speaker:
It's like, I will have kids go
Speaker:
with me, like, through their
Speaker:
whole spiral.
Speaker:
Right, right.
Speaker:
I was like, you start with some
Speaker:
little anxious thought, and
Speaker:
somehow in seven minutes later,
Speaker:
you're like, well, I'm going to
Speaker:
end up homeless in a gutter
Speaker:
somewhere.
Speaker:
I'm like, how?
Speaker:
How did that happen?
Speaker:
It's like, okay, we're going to
Speaker:
work on some cognitive
Speaker:
flexibility, right?
Speaker:
And we're going to see like,
Speaker:
there can't be just path A and
Speaker:
nothing else.
Speaker:
Then you kind of work backwards.
Speaker:
You're like, okay, what's the
Speaker:
likelihood that any of that
Speaker:
actually happens?
Speaker:
And by the time you get to the
end of it, they're like, okay,
Speaker:
maybe it's not so bad, right?
Speaker:
But that's for one specific
incident, right?
Speaker:
So we have kids kind of train
themselves.
Speaker:
We have them do this over and
over and over again with every
Speaker:
time that they get into that
sort of anxious spiral.
Speaker:
Um, what's your advice for
parents on that?
Speaker:
Like parents who are like, I
Speaker:
want my child to reach their
Speaker:
potential.
Speaker:
I want them to do their best.
Speaker:
I want them to have as many
options.
Speaker:
I think parents tell themselves
lots of good reasons why they
Speaker:
might be, you know, kind of
pushing for certain things.
Speaker:
But, you know, what's how do you
counsel parents where you're
Speaker:
like, you know, you're painting
this picture, which is leading
Speaker:
to this anxiety?
Speaker:
Yeah.
Speaker:
I mean, I think that's where
Speaker:
we're saying is like,
Speaker:
absolutely.
Speaker:
We want these kids to meet their
potential.
Speaker:
Right.
Speaker:
It's like we but we also have to
say it's like what they what
Speaker:
they are most interested may not
be the exact thing that you're
Speaker:
interested in, right?
Speaker:
It's like if they're really
talented in music or the arts or
Speaker:
some aspects like, yeah, we
should encourage that.
Speaker:
Understandably, we want them to
do well in school.
Speaker:
Right.
Speaker:
And it's like, I don't want you
Speaker:
slacking off in one thing and
Speaker:
putting only effort into
Speaker:
everything else.
Speaker:
Right.
Speaker:
I was like, but I can appreciate
Speaker:
that this is what you love
Speaker:
doing.
Speaker:
And it's like you're going to
put a lot of importance on that.
Speaker:
And can we try doing some of
this too?
Speaker:
Right.
Speaker:
It's like we're going to say
Speaker:
it's like, I expect you to
Speaker:
study.
Speaker:
I expect you to do the work.
Speaker:
I don't want to see missing
assignments.
Speaker:
I don't want you to, like, not
study at all for a test.
Speaker:
Right.
Speaker:
Um, but all your
extracurriculars are going to be
Speaker:
tied around, you know, theater
arts, and that's totally fine.
Speaker:
Right.
Speaker:
It's like if you're in a sports
league.
Speaker:
Yeah.
Speaker:
You want to play travel, you
want to play club.
Speaker:
You want to play like school
sports.
Speaker:
Like totally understandable,
right?
Speaker:
Um, and we can put importance on
that, too.
Speaker:
Um, we don't want to, you know,
kind of demonize the things that
Speaker:
they love, right?
Speaker:
Um, and we don't want to put
Speaker:
only importance on, like,
Speaker:
certain academics.
Speaker:
Right.
Speaker:
We know that academics can open
doors.
Speaker:
Right?
Speaker:
So I'm never I'm also never
going to tell a kid like, don't
Speaker:
don't worry about it.
Speaker:
Don't worry.
Speaker:
If you fail classes, it doesn't
matter.
Speaker:
It's like reality is like it may
Speaker:
not even be the subject, but
Speaker:
it's just the process of
Speaker:
learning, right?
Speaker:
Regardless of what you do, you
Speaker:
have to learn how to learn,
Speaker:
right?
Speaker:
You know, you hear so much about
Speaker:
kids being overscheduled these
Speaker:
days, and I have to imagine that
Speaker:
contributes somewhat to this
Speaker:
just frenetic pace that leads to
Speaker:
anxiety.
Speaker:
I think, you know, I'm a big
Speaker:
believer in like you read
Speaker:
downtime between the studying
Speaker:
and the schoolwork and the
Speaker:
sports and the activities you
Speaker:
need time just to like veg out
Speaker:
to the television or, you know,
Speaker:
do things that where your mind
Speaker:
can just like wander and not
Speaker:
have to feel on in some
Speaker:
capacity.
Speaker:
And I think even as adults and
Speaker:
professionals, we need that same
Speaker:
time.
Speaker:
And so I think it's, it's
something that sometimes gets
Speaker:
forgotten when we're like, well,
you need to do, you know, all of
Speaker:
these activities and how are we
diversifying your college resume
Speaker:
at seventh grade?
Speaker:
And, you know, we get a little
bit carried away.
Speaker:
Yeah.
Speaker:
Um, high level.
Speaker:
What are your thoughts on the
Speaker:
role of social media in this
Speaker:
discussion?
Speaker:
It's a hot another hot topic.
Speaker:
It is um, and I would say social
media by itself is not like it's
Speaker:
not a bad word.
Speaker:
Right?
Speaker:
There are plenty of podcasts.
Speaker:
There's plenty of YouTube
channels, there's plenty of
Speaker:
TikToks that are, uh, by, you
know, psychiatrists,
Speaker:
psychologists there, like, who
will give great information.
Speaker:
And a lot of that is not what
Speaker:
our kids are listening to,
Speaker:
right?
Speaker:
Um, it's TikTok on certain
diagnoses.
Speaker:
And for us, sometimes we can
tell what's been on TikTok based
Speaker:
on what I see in the hospital.
Speaker:
So there will be things that
show up where it's like, this
Speaker:
doesn't actually seem to fit.
Speaker:
Are you getting this idea from?
Speaker:
And it was like these symptoms
don't match up with what I know
Speaker:
about this, but it's kind of
like a superficial sort of sense
Speaker:
of like, you know, what these
disease processes look like.
Speaker:
I'm like, how's like, okay, this
is on social media now.
Speaker:
That's where some of the danger
Speaker:
is, is that there is this sort
Speaker:
of pseudo education about
Speaker:
illness that comes from these
Speaker:
brief clips.
Speaker:
And those are highly targeted,
right.
Speaker:
It's like it's a big it's a
little dopamine hit every time
Speaker:
you see something that's 30s and
sort of interesting.
Speaker:
And then you kind of move on to
something else.
Speaker:
But it sticks, right?
Speaker:
It's better than me blathering
on to you for an hour.
Speaker:
Right.
Speaker:
They're going to hold on to that
little piece much more than me
Speaker:
just lecturing them.
Speaker:
Um, so I think there are great
options within social media.
Speaker:
Um, but I think what we're
thinking of is the
Speaker:
doomscrolling, the constant
comparisons, the a brief blurbs,
Speaker:
and those are I think they're
not inherently dangerous, but
Speaker:
they can be dangerous.
Speaker:
Um, you said in this area we
take this area specifically.
Speaker:
It's like so much comparison,
right?
Speaker:
And just in terms of academics.
Speaker:
But that goes out to friends.
Speaker:
It goes out to aesthetics, it
goes out to appearance, it goes
Speaker:
out to everything.
Speaker:
And if you're not doing what
Speaker:
everyone is kind of showing you
Speaker:
on screen, it's like, how do I
Speaker:
change my personality to meet
Speaker:
that?
Speaker:
Right.
Speaker:
That's what we want to avoid.
Speaker:
Your personality will develop
over time just based on your
Speaker:
interests and who you are.
Speaker:
Right.
Speaker:
Kids feel so much pressure to.
Speaker:
It's like, well, I need I need a
phone.
Speaker:
And then it's like, well, I
Speaker:
need, you know, Snapchat and I
Speaker:
need TikTok.
Speaker:
And, you know, they want to be
where they see their friends.
Speaker:
And, you know, I know from my
Speaker:
own household when we sort of
Speaker:
say like, no, that's a boundary
Speaker:
for us.
Speaker:
We're not going to do that.
Speaker:
That, but how everyone else has
it.
Speaker:
We're the only family that
doesn't have it.
Speaker:
And so.
Speaker:
Well, and there's a time there's
Speaker:
a time component to it that I
Speaker:
think about.
Speaker:
And this goes back to what you
said earlier.
Speaker:
Listen, when we were teenagers.
Speaker:
It's not like we didn't have
societal pressures that we were
Speaker:
comparing ourselves to our peers
in school or socially.
Speaker:
But there's some some added
element to social media of
Speaker:
accessibility to that comparison
and the perpetual ness of it.
Speaker:
It's basically our experience on
steroids.
Speaker:
It feels like where it's like,
Speaker:
yes, we're just going to take
Speaker:
this and multiply it by ten and
Speaker:
essentially twenty four over
Speaker:
seven.
Speaker:
The limitation is really just
how often you're on your phone.
Speaker:
Exactly.
Speaker:
I mean, one hundred percent I
agree with what you're saying.
Speaker:
It's just it is completely in
your face now, right?
Speaker:
And so for kids, it's like we do
Speaker:
like every time, like kids leave
Speaker:
the hospital, we are talking to
Speaker:
parents about phone
Speaker:
restrictions.
Speaker:
And they hate it of course.
Speaker:
And so we take that on.
Speaker:
I was like, this is not your
parents recommendation.
Speaker:
This is us as holidays, right?
Speaker:
So we try to spare parents from
that.
Speaker:
But that is the reality is like,
I know that, you know, at
Speaker:
bedtime I don't want this.
Speaker:
So it's like, you know, an hour
or two before bed.
Speaker:
It's like, yeah, the phone's
Speaker:
just coming out of the room,
Speaker:
right?
Speaker:
I don't need you seeing that.
Speaker:
Um, and like you said, it's like
we're never putting the stuff
Speaker:
that's just like kind of
mediocre on, like, you know, I'm
Speaker:
not putting a picture of, like
our homemade dinner on Facebook.
Speaker:
Right?
Speaker:
It's just like it's like you're
Speaker:
only it's like you're going up,
Speaker:
right?
Speaker:
It's like if we're on a vacation
Speaker:
somewhere, it's like, that's the
Speaker:
thing.
Speaker:
It's like.
Speaker:
That's like one day out of three
hundred and sixty five, right?
Speaker:
Yeah.
Speaker:
Um, but that is not what these
kids are getting.
Speaker:
And a lot of times the
information they're receiving is
Speaker:
for someone who's.
Speaker:
This is their entire job, right?
Speaker:
It's like, this is their life.
Speaker:
This is their world.
Speaker:
And so it's like, yeah, they
might have experience.
Speaker:
This is not the typical teen or
child world, right?
Speaker:
Um, healthy restrictions for
ages for phones, right?
Speaker:
Like certainly not in elementary
school.
Speaker:
Certainly no social media
really.
Speaker:
Not even in middle school.
Speaker:
You know, as you're getting into
Speaker:
high school, it's like if you
Speaker:
block access to something, I
Speaker:
promise you, you're going to
Speaker:
find you're gonna find a way,
Speaker:
right?
Speaker:
Right.
Speaker:
Yeah.
Speaker:
So we want to set up certain
Speaker:
parameters so it doesn't feel
Speaker:
like this.
Speaker:
There's not this, like,
forbidden allure to it.
Speaker:
Right.
Speaker:
Um, and you're kind of
encouraging certain positive
Speaker:
social media outlets.
Speaker:
Um, again, you learn you can
learn a ton from YouTube, from
Speaker:
like from Instagram.
Speaker:
There's there are little clips
of things that are very useful.
Speaker:
Right?
Speaker:
Um, in terms of, like, we just
got a house so, so many, so much
Speaker:
homeownership stuff that I never
knew how to do.
Speaker:
Now I learn, right?
Speaker:
Right.
Speaker:
Um, but it's not someone just
Speaker:
kind of saying, like, look at my
Speaker:
beautiful house.
Speaker:
Yours is garbage compared to
this.
Speaker:
And like, you know, but this is
what kids do is amplify.
Speaker:
Yeah.
Speaker:
Let me just wrap up with one
question, if you don't mind.
Speaker:
What thought would you want to
leave our listeners with?
Speaker:
Give yourself some grace.
Speaker:
It's like you are not going to
be perfect.
Speaker:
There's going to be times where
Speaker:
you, like, slip up or say
Speaker:
something wrong, and that's
Speaker:
okay.
Speaker:
But take ownership of it and
kind of recognize that, okay, if
Speaker:
my kid is struggling, it's like,
and if I don't accept that,
Speaker:
maybe I'm making a mistake.
Speaker:
They're never going to tell you
Speaker:
and they're making a mistake,
Speaker:
right?
Speaker:
Or if something is not going
Speaker:
perfectly, they're just going to
Speaker:
kind of leave it, and then they
Speaker:
just kind of sit in silence and
Speaker:
struggle on their own, and then
Speaker:
there's no open line of
Speaker:
communication, right?
Speaker:
Whatever you can do to open the
line of communication, that
Speaker:
doesn't mean permit everything
they say, right?
Speaker:
I still will tell parents that
Speaker:
you have to have certain
Speaker:
boundaries.
Speaker:
You have to keep to those
Speaker:
boundaries and, um, making sure
Speaker:
that they have a good reasoning
Speaker:
for why you're doing something
Speaker:
will be that will foster a much
Speaker:
better relationship than just
Speaker:
saying do it my way or nothing
Speaker:
else.
Speaker:
Um, that is probably the single
most important thing I can tell
Speaker:
to a parent in terms of how do
you develop some sort of
Speaker:
communication with your kid?
Speaker:
Um, understand that they're not
going to have the emotional
Speaker:
language to really talk about
what's going on sometimes.
Speaker:
So you kind of know what your
kid looks like.
Speaker:
And I say that because what I'm
Speaker:
looking for is change in
Speaker:
function.
Speaker:
It's like if for whatever
reason, this kid is not going to
Speaker:
school anymore or really
anxious, or they just are much
Speaker:
more irritable than they used
to, it's like, okay, it's like,
Speaker:
is that teenager ability?
Speaker:
It's like, yeah, maybe for a
day.
Speaker:
But if you're seeing this
pattern, it's pervasive.
Speaker:
That's your kind of like Mark to
at least talk to them.
Speaker:
Doesn't mean, like,
automatically, let's make an
Speaker:
appointment with a therapist,
but talk to them.
Speaker:
Something's going on.
Speaker:
Uh, and let them know it's like
it's not a problem, but it's
Speaker:
like, I just want to make sure
that I'm not missing anything.
Speaker:
And if I am, you can tell me I.
Speaker:
I did a terrible job missing
Speaker:
that.
Speaker:
But you kind of have to have a
Speaker:
thick skin when you're a parent,
Speaker:
right?
Speaker:
I was like, just they're going
to poke at you.
Speaker:
Yeah, but they're really good at
it.
Speaker:
Yeah.
Speaker:
Um, but the more that you can
accept that, um, and kind of
Speaker:
acknowledge that there's certain
things that you're not going to
Speaker:
know and certain things that
they are, then you're going to
Speaker:
be in a better place.
Speaker:
Um, thank you so much.
Speaker:
This is so helpful and great
just to chat with you.
Speaker:
Really appreciate it.
Speaker:
It's great to meet you.
Speaker:
Good to talk to you.
Speaker:
Nice to meet you.
Speaker:
I appreciate you having me on.
Speaker:
Yeah.
Speaker:
All right.
Speaker:
Thanks for tuning in.
Speaker:
We hope you enjoyed this
episode.
Speaker:
If you liked what you heard, be
sure to subscribe.