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Building Doors is a podcast about Inspiring Leaders who have created their own opportunities and are thought leaders, industry advocates and change makers in their field. This podcast gives you the resources, insights and steps to stop waiting for opportunities and start building your doors for success. Listen to this podcast to gain the resources, career tips and hands-on advice on how you can gain clarity and build doors in your own life and career.
Speaker 1: I think when you have enough chesticles, as I call it, to go and start a business, you really have to back yourself. And I think even if people tell you you can't, you sort of go to bed at night thinking, "Have I gone crazy? But let's go for it."
Speaker 2: Welcome to Building Doors. In this series, you'll develop the skills to build a roadmap for success, get inspired by those leaders who have come before you, and give you the confidence to stop waiting and start building.
Speaker 3: Julie Castle is the founder of Struber, a leading professional services consultancy in Australia. Julie's company works in some of the biggest infrastructure projects in the country, including transport, health development, energy, water, and social infrastructure. Her clients include some of Australia's national and international infrastructure companies, and she services both public and private. Julie's entrepreneurial journey began when she became a mother for the first time. It changed her perspective on work, and provided her with that light bulb moment. She wanted to have it all, a love for her career, and to be an extraordinary mother. But, she needed flexibility in her work.
She established Struber to help take the infrastructure sector to the next level. Julie's hardcore work ethic and drive to implement ideas has been instrumental in their success. She's energetic and passionate about infrastructure, and is obsessed with making a positive impact on employees, contractors, suppliers, stakeholders and clients' lives. She values trust, goodwill, and being heard, which she believes are universally important in business. Julie's company has expanded quickly in Queensland, into Victoria and New South Wales, and recently into Canberra. Her current projects include the Gold Coast Light Rail, Sydney Metro and Victoria's Northeast Link. She sits on the Transport Affairs Advisory Panel for the Minister for Transport in Queensland, and the Advisory Board for Infrastructure Collab.
Julie is an ambassador for change, focusing on the future needs of populations and economies. Recently Struber won the Telstra Best in Business for accelerating women, and they've gained accreditation in the best place to work. Welcome, Julie.
Speaker 1: Yay.
Speaker 3: Hello. So Julie and I, we're very excited to do this podcast, we haven't seen each other for over 10 years, and now both each have two children. I have been watching the journey of Struber and love it, just love your energy, passion and drive, and to me that was always evident from the moment that I met you.
Speaker 1: Same for you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well I'm glad it's mutual. But I've just been so impressed, and wanted to get you on the podcast to share the journey of Struber. What inspired you to start Struber, and what challenges did you face in the early phase of the business?
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think when you have enough chesticles, as I call it, to go and start a business-
Speaker 3: Chesticles.
Speaker 1: ... you really have to back yourself, and I think even if people tell you you can't you sort of go to bed at night thinking, "Have I gone crazy? But let's go for it." I think we were always really ambitious about what we wanted, but at the same time we were taking it step-by-step. I think the challenge for me though, was when we launched the business in southeast Queensland I remember going to my first industry lunch, and the economist saying, "Anybody who's got a business in infrastructure in Queensland over the next five to 10 years is a fool, because ultimately the economy is going to be facing a downturn, it's not the infrastructure pipeline spending you want to be doing." And I thought, "What have I done?"
So look, I think you just have to back yourself, and believe it, and know your network is there to support you. But it's hard, you've got to keep knocking on doors, getting people to trust a different way of working. But I think our unique value proposition around how we wanted to be scalable, and flexible, and really work with our clients about what they really needed versus just what we wanted to sell them, enabled us to kind of get our little niche, and get our market share, and go from there. So it's been a lot of knocking on doors proving yourself, and you're only as good as your last job. And fortunately, we've got quite a lot of last jobs now that prove that we're doing a good job.
Speaker 3: Tell me more about the knocking on doors side of it, because I think that's the... Almost it's the shady secret of new businesses that people don't talk about, is that tough slog of knocking on doors and proving yourself. How do you maintain, I guess, a resilient mindset going through that early phase of growing a business?
Speaker 1: I think you think that if you're a good communicator that it's going to be fine, you're going to just keep going out and talking to people. But you're right, if you get told sort of, "No," or, "Thanks," or, "Talk about it down the track," and I found also people wanting to sort of share their stories but not necessarily find a way to work together right now. So I think you've got to just keep that activity going, because eventually, a month, a week, or three years later, someone says, "Hey, remember we were talking about that awesome opportunity or way we could work together? I'll reach out and get you referred to someone," and it goes from there. So I think you've just got to keep open to talking to people.
I really tried to approach it with just a genuine focus on relationships, and that has led to those opportunities. I'm not kind of a seller, if that makes sense, but I certainly know how to pitch my story, and be passionate about what I do, and the value it can offer. And then that's obviously had to scale to be a whole Struber brand story, and so many different skillsets that we offer in the business. So keep at it, be genuine in your relationships, and also just make sure that it's a mutually beneficial relationship. Often clients will say, "Hey, can you introduce me to somebody else," or, "Can you do this for me?" And I think if you're kind of helping each other out along the way, that sort of snowballs.
Look, the sales part is interesting. Our industry is quite focused on relationships, but if you can keep talking to people, and staying connected through those industry bodies, and being active, we really enjoy the network. And that's enabled us to build it just out of one location to multiple locations, so it's now a bigger brand and a bigger beast. We really just love having those positive relationships in infrastructure, and that's led to great business for us.
Speaker 3: I'm glad you talked about the relationship side of it, because I think so often people think of relationships as transactional. And I find if you approach it in the way that you're passionate about your story, and you're going out and having coffees with people and catching up with people, it's less daunting as well.
Speaker 1: Agreed.
Speaker 3: I was saying that to my team recently, I was like, "You're not selling, you are not selling, you are merely just looking at how you can provide value to your connections and your industry."
Speaker 1: Agreed, agreed. And if you believe in what you're doing and you're passionate about it, which you do, which is why you bounce out of bed in the morning and go for it, then ultimately there's something you can offer, and there's a problem that you can help solve for them. And maybe it's not something immediately, but I certainly know in terms of thinking about how our services has evolved it's just about identifying new problems and better ways of finding solutions. So I think it's exciting, and I think our industry's got a lot of problems, so there's plenty of opportunities to help.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely. And I'm glad you also talked about that feeling of going, "Oh, the infrastructure pipeline isn't great," because a lot of people right now are getting told, "We're going into a recession, we're going into recession." But at the end of the day, we got told during COVID that property prices were going to go down, people forget there's always going to be media hype.
Speaker 1: 100%.
Speaker 3: And I love your focus of... And you've always been like that, that positive growth mindset of just, move forward, move forward.
Speaker 1: Agreed.
Speaker 3: You know? I know you've got such a tenacity that if it was just, somebody wasn't keen now you'd be like, "They'll be keen later."
Speaker 1: Yes, I agree, they'll come back to us. And also I think you've got to have that survive and thrive mentality, even what we're facing now in industry. And there's a funny feeling at the moment because we're waiting on government reviews of spending, we're waiting on decision-making around where things are going to be prioritized into different sectors. And so, you can feel people are a little bit uncertain. Whereas, it wasn't many months ago that we were going to infrastructure industry conversations, everyone was like, "Oh, please stop the saturation of opportunities, we can't service it all."
Speaker 3: Yes, true.
Speaker 1: And we were talking about our skills, threats. So I think ultimately, maybe we're getting what we wished for, but not in a way we wanted it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely. Another thing that we've spoken about in the past, I want to ask about it, is your dream of being a scuba diver and a radio host. So tell me about how some of those early career goals shaped you.
Speaker 1: Oh my God, well I think you got me, haven't you? [inaudible 00:07:49]-
Speaker 3: [inaudible 00:07:49].
Speaker 1: ... no, I'm just teasing. Look, I think growing up as a north Queensland girl, and kind of leads to the story of Struber really, my dad and mum ran a building company at Cairns. And so my dad was always very serious about, he treated us like the boys, and we had to get out there on-site, my sister and I, and support on the weekends, and on holidays, and whatever. And so my dad was always very serious about having a hardworking job, and then that leads to opportunities for the future. And so my first, I think when I was doing a scuba-diving license in high school, I was like, "That's it, I'm going to live on the ocean, and scuba dive." Dad was like, "That's not a real job." Sorry to all the scuba divers out there, because it is a fun job.
Then I was radio announcing, and as you know I kind of like to talk, and some say I can sell sand to Arabs, or gift of the gab, and whatever. Funny, heard [inaudible 00:08:30] energy.
Speaker 3: I buy ice from Eskimos, and all the... Yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 1: You can too, that's right, that's why we've always bonded. But look, I think it's really the energy that comes off me. So then I got excited about doing radio announcing, so I did lots of work experience and volunteering, and got to see that side of life. And then again, Dad was like, "No." So yeah, left Cairns the day I finished school or two weeks after, and went on this pathway. Then very shortly after moving from Cairns I met Deon, who's my husband and co-founder of Struber. So we then went on this pathway of growing up in life together, but also then starting a business together. And now we honor Struber, which is my maiden name in infrastructure, because we have come from a long line of people working in development, and construction, and mining, and rail.
And that's kind of then led to this... I suppose it's weird, you kind of think, "Oh, I'm doing my own thing." And then you have this little moment where you're like, "Actually, I think I'm doing something that's been passed down from generations." So, it's quite interesting.
Speaker 3: Yes. I think it's really cool because sometimes when we have a career goal, or a career ambition, or a pathway we think we're going to take, we don't always realize the pieces that all mold together to get you to where you are today.
Speaker 1: [inaudible 00:09:33].
Speaker 3: Because if you think about it, growing up and seeing that hard work ethic, seeing firsthand what it's like to run a business, how much has that helped you now as a parent, knowing how to navigate that? Then the radio hosting thing, look, you're on a podcast now, you know? Dreams can come true.
Speaker 1: See? When I met you I knew that you would have this, so I could be fine on the radio.
Speaker 3: But then also, obviously in your role you do so much presenting and things like that.
Speaker 1: Yes, communication.
Speaker 3: So sometimes, all these little opportunities lead to... And it's not until later on in your life that you kind of go, "Oh, the pieces are all coming together," and it's like the legacy of your father lives on through Struber as well.
Speaker 1: I agree, exactly. I hope the pieces of hiding out on a super yacht off Spain or something being a piece that I can channel too.
Speaker 3: I feel like that's your next piece Julie, it'll mean something, I know it will.
Speaker 1: I will, let's put that out there.
Speaker 3: Tell us a bit about your team as well, because we've talked a lot about the founding of Struber. But one of the things I love about you and what you've talked about which is good for all of us to learn is how to manage flexibility within a team, and how you think this impacts the lives of your team members. Tell us more about that journey at Struber.
Speaker 1: Oh look, it's a full-time mindset about caring for your people, and particularly because we sell people. We're offering professional services, our people, our talent is what we sell. And so ultimately we need them to be the happiest product and service that they can offer to our client on that day, so it's really important. I think even, we were touching on this in our pre-chat, the journey over what was like in infrastructure, and what people did, and then how things have changed in COVID, and what people want out of life now has changed. So, you've definitely had to adapt to what flexibility means. We used to talk about work/life harmony, because it wasn't about balance all the time.
Because I certainly know, even though I thought maybe starting a business I'd get some more balance, it's not always like that. But ultimately, as long as you're out trying to have it all, it might not happen all at once but you'll kind of get there. I mean, so we used to talk about this harmony, but now it's around integration. Because for some people, we just did a fantastic internal culture piece, and from the research it was so interesting. People said one of the number one things they love about Struber is this philosophy we have, which is own your flexibility. For so many people, that means so many different things. That's getting home to check on the dog, that's going and seeing the kids get some sort of presentation at school, that's finishing early to get that long weekend in because you've done the slog during the week.
So I think ultimately, it's just around having the project management skillsets in everybody, and we can do that in consulting. But they know, "Hey, if I'm doing this commitment I'm going to get this opportunity for flexibility," and that's what we really try and focus on. And if you own that flexibility, you're going to get rests after the sprints. But you're also going to be able to live your best life, so it's different for everyone. And that makes it quite hard for my company to have sort of policies and systems, because it can't be too rigid, but there needs to be some nice guide rails there so people know what's acceptable, but also that they'll take advantage of the opportunities to live a full life.
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm, yeah. And it's interesting when you talk about just owning your flexibility, and flexibility is different for everyone, how do you find as a consultancy as well managing... Does it change the way you manage? When you're given flexibility, do you change the way you look at what you require? How does that mentality shift too?
Speaker 1: Agreed. Look, I think ultimately it's really our clients can sometimes impact how we can offer that. But at the same time, it's the relationships we have with our clients and how we enable that to happen. But I think it's happening across our whole industry, I'm running coaching and initiatives on major projects across Australia. And it's really interesting hearing that, again, the number one priority for people is well-being, and that kind of flexibility. And then number two is, "I want to work for an organization that's focused on sustainability and impacting the planet positively." So they're those topics, so we're all facing it, whether you're on-site doing what would be a really traditional hour's role, you can start feeling that pressure.
There's a CEO, actually, of a major project in a state down south, I won't sort of name him because he may be pivoting on his views now. But he was talking about that idea of, "Can we run construction sites as four-day work weeks, and then how would you do that?" Now, that's obviously a huge cost and challenge for programming, but I think it's a conversation that's happening across the world. I think the main thing is Australia's got to stay competitive, and we've got to make sure that we economically can do those challenges. But also that ultimately the human product and the people are enjoying what they're doing, and doing their best work, and more importantly being productive. So our team, we can be productive, we're consultants, so we know we've got to give a certain amount of outputs, or a certain amount of hours.
And so with that we can wrap that flexibility around it, sometimes we're working on big tenders, and working through the night, and making that mission happen by that deadline, so we can then obviously gather some flexibility on the back of that. Or we've got team members who are embedded full-time in government roles, and they sometimes have to do set hours, but at the same time that offers them different flexibility due to the government-client relationship. So yeah, I think it's just understanding the human being. Some people don't need as much, and other people want a lot more, and you've just got to also make it fair and equitable.
Speaker 3: One of the things that I think is important is keeping people in the industry too, after COVID. And when we look at things like flexibility and sustainability being such key topics, it tells us that post-COVID people are now looking at their lives in a different way.
Speaker 1: 100%.
Speaker 3: And want to be able to know that they are able to go to work, achieve the outcomes that they need to for their clients, and not burn out.
Speaker 1: Agreed.
Speaker 3: And still have energy for their family and their kids.
Speaker 1: Agreed.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I think it's a big conversation because you've got different schools of thought as well, like different people that have come through and said, "Look, I worked every Saturday through my whole career." And I think it's about having conversations in how things can be shaped differently, and that project director that you were mentioning as well is a perfect example. Just thinking of trying it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thinking differently, agreed. And I think also what I find in our industry is the innovation stuff, I know we're doing little bits of innovation here and there, but we talk boldly about innovation. But really, we're still kind of waiting for somebody else to... We're like, "Oh, if someone else starts doing it then I'll follow along," you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 1: It's still like breaking out, and really doing something differently. Unfortunately I've worked on some amazing positioning strategies for businesses, and also their tendering and winning, whether it's an interesting consortium, and they've lost due to trying to be innovative on how either they would implement the project or what they would do, because they didn't come into the confines of the purchaser's mindset. But I think now we've got to think differently, and it can't be like one rule for them, one rule for someone else, it can't be easy on one side of the fence and hard on the other side of the fence. So I think our industry's got a lot to do around challenging itself, around what they're expecting of its people.
But also being able to get work done, there's a lot of talk... And it happens, like we've got a lot of international contractor clients, and the way we run Australia in terms of all of our different expectations and conditions, it does make it really hard for them to be profitable. And so if you keep piling on the costs and the inflation of running a project, it makes it very hard for that, and the economic stimulation that comes from infrastructure's kind of tighter. So I think it's a big conversation, I think there's lots of little one percenters that can happen over time. I also look forward to seeing us all kind of leaning into the opportunity, and making sure we can deliver these great assets for this country.
Speaker 3: Awesome. What do you think some of the blockers might be for innovation in that infrastructure, and construction, and those heavy industries? For all the work that you do, what do you see as some of those?
Speaker 1: I think it is that bias around what will and won't work, people are already in the headspace that, "I was trained this way, and so therefore it has to be done that way." Some of the things, particularly on the topic I suppose of flexibility, some of the conditions or changes that we're bringing in, we talk a lot about culture as behaviors and habits. And as part of these culture programs we're rolling out, we agree across the cross-section going, "Okay, well there's certain hours of the day which we're not going to have meetings. There's certain days of the week which we're going to have this type of work happening." And so therefore, then it just creates windows for people. I remember a leader sharing the other day, he said, "Oh, I go to the gym now during the lunch break, because I know that we don't have meetings between 11:00 and 1:00."
So he's getting this whole opportunity to look after himself that he wouldn't have usually got, because someone would have booked that meeting at 12:00, and he would have... Three months go by, "Hey, infrastructure." Three months go by and you're like, "Oh, when was the last time I actually went out, and I'm eating hamburgers, but I'm not doing any exercise." So that was-
Speaker 3: [inaudible 00:17:31] at the desk, you know?
Speaker 1: Al desko.
Speaker 3: In a meeting, eating the hamburger and we were like, [inaudible 00:17:32] in this meeting, I haven't had a break today.
Speaker 1: So true. I'll never forget on a project years ago, and this amazing executive leader, she used to come in regularly, eating her lunch in this particular executive forum. And the blokes used to chat about it after, "Oh, [inaudible 00:17:50]." And I was like, "Well let's be fair, if someone were to look at that person's diary, there is no other time. And so if we're the cultural place that she can smash down that sandwich, or break up that mandarin, we are excited to be there for her."
Speaker 3: "We're a safe lunch space." I would have been chatting around and thinking, if that person every time at that meeting is... You know, has she really got not that time in the day to eat the sandwich at the desk, you know? Yeah.
Speaker 1: Exactly, maybe it was a particular diet routine, you had to have it at that time, I'm not sure.
Speaker 3: Who knows.
Speaker 1: But we didn't ask, we'd have to find out.
Speaker 3: Another thing I wanted to talk to you about is values in business, because you've always been this type of person, and I see it shining through, through the values of the business. So how important are values in business, and what do you do to ensure you're acting in line with them?
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I think values are very important, and it's quite interesting, as part of some of the work we do with different leadership groups, and different teams when you're sort of forming them, and getting them to work together, people have their own values, obviously, and they bring them to work. And so sometimes the conflict between two people is actually not that they don't want to come to work, and make their jobs easier, and work together happily all day, they actually just don't have values alignment, so what's really important to someone is not as strong elsewhere. So I think that setting the charter of what this project, or this company, or this group of people need to do is really important.
We've kind of moved away from the kind of 1980s values, "We believe in integrity, we believe in trust," because what does integrity mean? I can tell you, I've asked a group of 120 people and it's very different for every single person. So we actually really believe in defining that, so we had an amazing business coach with us a few years ago and he was talking about this All-Blacks, and the principles of the All-Blacks. And it just resonated with us, and so we've now kind of built it... And maybe it's a bit of a yoga, well-being vibe, but the idea of mantras, so consciousness. So it's a bit of IP that we've built, and it's a great thing that a lot of infrastructure projects are coming to us for now.
And they want to have conscious statements, habits and behaviors that they will implement as a team to actually make them work really well. So, some of the ones they've got, curiously lean in. So what does that mean? Well actually, we need to actually really support each other and ask why before we start to rule out other people's decisions, or other people's advice. Some of ours at Struber, our strength is in the pack, we're one team and we're always going to be able to be more successful together. So I think that actually, you're activating something.
And I can tell you, if you're having a bad day, one of ours is energy is everything. And if someone's rocking up to work with their vibe down I'll be like, "Hey, energy's everything, let's get back on track." And so it automatically gives you a statement to reset and consciously go, "Hey, hang on, the habits and behaviors I'm showing my team." So I think we like to review them and recognize people on them on a weekly basis as part of an internal system, but I think really you've got to be really sure what is that value in action, and what do you want to see, and can you measure it, or can you recognize and reward based on it?
And I think that holds leaders to a high standard, because if you aren't able to demonstrate the attributes of that, then really you've kind of got a poster on the wall.
Speaker 3: Yeah. One of the things that I have noticed, and particularly in this space, we are as a supplier to construction and engineering industry, is the importance of partnering with clients that have the same values you do, or that recognize the importance of the values. Because, like you, we deal in people.
Speaker 1: Agreed.
Speaker 3: And when we're partnering with clients, we are going, "Here you go, here's this wonderful person we spent all this time nurturing, and we're going-"
Speaker 1: Please.
Speaker 3: "... to place them in this job with you, and trust that you're going to treat them well, and that everything that we've told them about is going to be their experience."
Speaker 1: Agreed.
Speaker 3: So, how important do you feel it is, and do you look at values alignment when you're looking at what clients you'll partner with?
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, absolutely. And we've got a great in-house recruitment, and also recruitment partners such as yourselves in the past around where we really... It's important, right?
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 1: Because if you walk in and it's not what it says on the tin, or more importantly you walk in and you actually don't gel with that, the chances of that person lasting is low. And I think also, as businesses grow... we've also found as businesses grow your culture is evolving, so you need to make sure you've got kind of people coming with you on that journey, but also adapting as you transition. So I think it's a key part of recruitment, I think you should be very open in your recruitment processes around, "Hey, this is us, this is us on a poster on a wall, but this is also us in action." So people can really buy into it, because there's no point in wasting each other's time. Some people just won't fit, and that's okay, but you don't really want to wait six months or a year to find that out.
And it also has a big impact on the other team members who are drinking the Kool-Aid, and loving what they're doing. So I think you can pull that out, there's lots of strategies, you're the recruitment expert. There's lots of strategies around-
Speaker 3: Oh, absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 1: ... how you draw that out, so there's kind of no excuse for people to be surprised once they started a role. But you're right, when you're handing them over you've got to live up to the promise. And I think it's really important, and we've got a great team in our talent team, they're always like, "We've got to deliver on that promise." And I think that's an important conversation to have with yourself all the time, because you've got to align with where the business is headed, what you want to achieve, but also what your people are there for.
Speaker 3: Absolutely. And I think sometimes we work with companies, and they'll say, "We don't really know what our values are."
Speaker 1: It's incredible.
Speaker 3: And you can always turn around and go, "Well, your people do." Because if you talk around to your people, the culture is created whether you are mindful of it or not, whether you're intentional about it or not.
Speaker 1: 100%.
Speaker 3: If you talk around to your... Tell me more about when you did this discussion with 115 people, and can you tell us more about that, and the values, and what you found?
Speaker 1: What it is. Well it's interesting, so we have a range of things that we do in these large groups and facilitated workshops, but I quite love using kind of quick data drawings, so they're, "Quick, jump on your phones, let's all plug in some information into this system." And it's fascinating, once I ended up in a situation where two particular people were almost going at it in this particular forum, and we love it. We prefer them to, in a safe environment, have it out, move on, and we've washed up, and we're ready to go. And it really was this values alignment, one of them really thought really strongly around respect in the workplace being this, and the other person thought respect in the workplace meant something totally different.
And I think that's really a key to understand, we love asking that. The Toyota CEO used to have the five whys, which I really love. Because if you actually ask someone why, "Well, tell me about what does respect mean?" "Well, that's why, why, why," you start to dig into really what's actually at the core of that. I mean, her respect stuff came from teamwork, and the need to actually work together as a team, and value everybody's collective input. Whereas his was more around respect of hierarchy, and system integration, and following. So they were just arguing, they thought they believed in the same thing but it was from a totally different lens. So I think can try and draw that out quite quickly in some of our early kind of evidence, research, and data capture, and stuff.
And it's fascinating when people actually take the time to pause and understand each other, and even share. I loved when people share my personal liabilities, because let's be honest, we all know we've got some. I've got a couple.
Speaker 3: We know our vulnerabilities, and we don't know our team will tell you.
Speaker 1: Agreed. And so why avoid that, you know?
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I you're spending so many hours a day with these people, talk about it. And I think that also breaks things down, where you then understand someone's values, but also you understand where it's coming from in their sense, and also how far you can push them if you need to push them, without them feeling like they're compromising themselves.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely. I'm glad you talked about that as well, because I think so often people think, "We're a company, we've done our values, hire people with our values," and they don't maybe think or explore the subjective view that people have of what a value means to them.
Speaker 1: 100%.
Speaker 3: And like you said, and what flexibility means to them as well. What do you consider... So through growing your business, and a really successful business, Best in Business for Telstra for accelerating women, best place to work, and I mean, chills, that's impressive.
Speaker 1: We're like the builder that finally finished their house, we actually went out and got some confirmation of what we are. It's great when we've got a bit of marketing capacity in-house-
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 1: ... it was great. And we're very proud of that, it's a nice kicker to go, "Yeah, we're actually doing things." And it's outside the infrastructure vacuum too, to go, "Hey, people outside of our world think we're doing a good job," so that was nice.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and you deserve the recognition. And through that, I'm really interested in I guess insight from you, what are some of the most important lessons you feel you've learned while growing your business?
Speaker 1: Oh.
Speaker 3: A tricky one, I know.
Speaker 1: I know. Lessons..
Speaker 3: We'll just put a timer on while you think about it.
Speaker 1: Look, I think the lessons are focus on the data to guide your decision-making, versus perception and emotion. I think sometimes, particularly we work in a people-based business, and you can get caught up and worried about something... It's a bit like when we work in stakeholder engagement for our clients, you spend so much time on the noisy 5% or the 5% of people versus thinking about the collective. And so I think really now, we're really focused on understanding what everyone holistically is thinking, what our different markets are thinking, what our different team members, our pathways and needs are. And so therefore, we're really able to kind of tailor, but also make it something that suits everybody. So definitely focused on the data, and focused on the results, and more importantly drive everyone to where you're headed, make your strategy really clear.
It's quite fascinating, again, when working with clients, a business has a business strategy. And then when you get out of the corporate environment, into the project environment, or even in a government department, the heads, executives, what they think versus the individual program or project teams, it doesn't align. So you need everyone to kind of understand that, so that's my next big one, is like strategy, clarity, communication, and alignment. And again, you don't always get it perfect. But if everyone can see every day I'm showing up, and I'm contributing to that big thing, that really helps. And I think that's quite fascinating on infrastructure projects, and it also has been for our business, to help everyone be aligned.
And then I'm trying to think of any other lessons, there's just so many lessons, there's lessons every day. We have an always learning mindset, because I think we're human beings, and the experiences I'm having today I'd never had before, and so I have to kind of learn as I go. But we're coming up to 10 years in business next year, so I've done a lot, I've seen a lot, and I've still got plenty to do.
Speaker 3: So you're learning every day. I went to a breakfast the other day, and one of the things they were talking about, it was all around retaining young women in the industry. And one of the things they talked about in terms of culture, that young women were looking for, and I wanted to talk to you about this because of your award in accelerating women, and I wanted your thoughts on this, was safety, looking for safety in the workplace. And I thought more about it, and I think the way you spoke about it then in business, feeling safe to not know all the answers, that no questions is a stupid question-
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
Speaker 3: ... and to make a mistake.
Speaker 1: Agreed.
Speaker 3: When you haven't done something before, you're going to make mistakes. And I just think one of the things I know about you and I've seen about you is just your forward approach, move on, you know?
Speaker 1: Oh, 100%. I have to remind our team, but also clients [inaudible 00:28:25], have the conversation, talk about it, not focused on who and what happened, but how could we make it not happen again, when did we maybe notice this was going wrong, and could we have looked at it earlier, or whatever it is. But once it's had that conversation I move on, maybe I've just got kind of a outbox delete mind. But I just don't want to hang onto old stuff, it's just, I don't have time and energy for it. Some things stick with you, some things are harder in terms of yourself, in terms of the lessons you learned or whatever. But otherwise, I'm interested in just having the conversation, what's the solution, let's implement that solution and go on.
And we'd talk about kind of 20% strategy, 80% execution, I'm very interested in getting stuff done. And so yeah, there's no time for that. And I think that's really an interesting one, I find this quite fascinating. Even when you talked about young women in safety, I know one of our projects in New South Wales, the data came out around... This was around sort of transport infrastructure planning, and particularly around rail, and it was around safety. But that safety, the same topic, again, we're kind of talking about the same word, but what it means. And that was all around visibility, lighting, access, whatever, but it's a similar... Whether you talk about it as a physical environment or actually in a business, visible lighting, knowing where things are going, knowing that you can be safe to go through that next corridor, and things are going to come through on the other side.
It's quite interesting. I think we just have to make sure that we always remember that nobody's perfect, and we also have to remember that we all, I think, genuinely wake up every morning wanting to have a bright impact on the world. And so if we come at it from that angle, let's let each other make mistakes and fail, or let's let each other learn from each other. But I think the big thing for young women, and also anyone in the industry, I always say, "Just be happy to ask questions and not know." And man, we've got plenty of people in our industry who love telling stories, sharing knowledge, old words of wisdom. And that's awesome because you'll learn from that, and I find that quite exciting, the ability for the kind of elders to teach the next generation, and we should be grabbing those people quickly.
Speaker 3: Do you know what I think is special about this industry, and I was thinking about this the other day, is that the people that have the experience and the knowledge, they want to teach you, they want to help you. If you ask the question and you ask for help, I would say 80% of the time or more, if I've ever done that, the person's gone, "Yep, I'll explain that."
Speaker 1: 100%.
Speaker 3: Or, "Yep, I'll show you around the project, and show you how it works-"
Speaker 1: Agreed.
Speaker 3: "... and what our team looks like." So I think there's always that misconception that you have to know everything, but there's also so much power in not knowing, and then going to someone who is an expert, that can impart that knowledge on you, you know?
Speaker 1: 100%, agreed.
Speaker 3: And they want to help you, and they want to tell their story and their journey, and leave their legacy with you as well.
Speaker 1: Well I was going to say, isn't that the topic? When you talk to anyone in infrastructure, and even though things are evolving, the reality is is not everyone's in it for the work/life balance, they're in it for the legacy. They want to drive around town and go, "I was part of that project, we planned that new development site, we made this happen, we were at the forefront of the energy transition." It's all about leaving something for the next generation, we work with a water infrastructure agency and the whole tone of their whys is that legacy piece. And for generations to come, people will be talking about what they worked on. So if you are motivated by legacy, you absolutely want to share your story.
And if that's a small touch point on an office, in a site, in a department, interaction for a tender, people are willing to share, you've just got to ask, and shut up and listen for a minute.
Speaker 3: Absolutely. Tell me more about sustainability, so we spoke about this briefly early on, and I'm interested in your thoughts around I guess the future needs in sustainability, and some of the emerging trends you can see in that space, in the infrastructure side.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. Oh, well I think, again, the work in Infrastructure CoLab and a few of those different things, even business cases now being more around circular economy, and the reuse and recycle of material versus taking raw stuff into industry is sustainability. I also think just even the sector transformation, the people that are going to be moving into the energy sector and that transformation, that's all really around sustainability. It's still going to have a huge impact in terms of what happens to communities, and that's a whole piece around social license, which we love getting involved in, and smoothing the pathway for approvals while keeping neighbors and communities on board. But, I think the sustainability thing gives us more chance to be part of exciting legacies.
I also think the sustainability part comes across a lot, it's been in the Financial Review for years, and we certainly ride one letter really hard in terms of ESG, and so environments, social, and governance. And I think the social piece, there's so many dreams that people have around living in a beautiful planet, and living in a better community, and having better relationships around what they're doing through their work, but also in their communities. And so I think if you're really focused on that social piece you'll start to find the most simplest, and also the most advanced sustainability ideas that come out of those communities. And that's some of the things we love to do in infrastructure planning, but also in exciting, interesting, winning strategies in tenders, but also in the delivery.
And I think projects, like one of the big projects we're working on in Victoria, a big road tunnel, they are just forging ahead with the most amazing sustainability initiatives, and that comes from great topics we like to get involved in, which is like the social procurement piece. How do we get people who never thought that they would work on an infrastructure project, or the supply chain, how do we get these amazing startups that really don't even have a clue how to interact with the infrastructure industry? We're a funny little beast. But if we can give them access, they will bring us the most innovative stuff out of a whole different sector, and have a huge impact on how much waste, on how much resource goes in, and even how we produce the infrastructure from a resourcing perspective, whether that be through technology and other things.
So I think the sustainability is like kind of this little shiny ball that's got all these different mirrors that can happen, and I'm really excited to kind of touch different parts of them through the projects we work on. And I think in the end we'll end up with a better planet, but also we'll end up with better communities.
Speaker 3: Yes, I love that.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: You've worked on some of Australia's largest infrastructure projects. What are some of the challenges you see that we're facing now, in going forward?
Speaker 1: Yes. Look, I think big or small infrastructure projects, it all comes down to people. I really think that, and that's why we've always got along very well around talent. And I think it really comes down to human beings, and what are we going to be doing to provide the communities with the assets that they need, and long into the future? How do we actually build communities to come to the assets that we're building? And I think that really those human relationships, it kind of links back full circle to the earlier topics. I think people need to be prepared to work together in new and better ways, whether that be through the contracting environment, and decisions around contract selection, or procurement selection.
But I also think it's around, how do we actually maximize the resources we've got? I think the people factor, how do we get the most out of the people we've got, how do we bring in new people to the market and make it an attractive and interesting-
Speaker 3: Proposition? Yep, yep.
Speaker 1: ... industry to work for? Absolutely. Like you think about some of the things that we are facing in terms of what human beings are wanting out of our industry now, they were like, you could never talk about those topics five years ago, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Like, you were a weak person for thinking that you should live life like that. Whereas now, hey, we've absolutely got to do something about it, and it's the only way we're going to get the gender gap on infrastructure projects filled. You know, 4% of women on infrastructure projects, that's tragic.
Speaker 3: And you said what, you were talking before, you said it's one in 10 people in Australia work in an infrastructure or construction-related field. And that's fascinating, like that's a huge-
Speaker 1: And then only 4% of that is women. And so, I talk a lot about how... Well you know, people talk about the skills gap, and everyone was really afraid about this, because it's actually just a gender gap. If we can get more of the other half of the Australian population participating, and that's maybe through exactly this. How do we manage the roles and the flexibilities, or what types of skills and trades do we need? But I also think Australia, we're a very big country, there's skills transition opportunities. And I think it's quite interesting, when I work with some of the big membership bodies, they're really grappling with, "How do we actually enable skills to be transitioned between different locations in Australia, or international to Australia, so we can actually get that capacity that we need?"
So I think, again, we've got to be mindful that we can actually train, and grow, and develop people. And if all the industry's talking together around, "Well, who's going to solve which problem by when," then collectively we can move forward quite fast.
Speaker 3: I love it. And you've talked so much in this episode about the exciting things that are on offer in the industry as well. I mean, the legacy piece is huge, of going past and saying, "Look, I helped build that." But also, I really like what you talk about about contributing to the communities in creating a lasting piece of infrastructure, something that's going to improve lives, you know?
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 3: That's a pretty important job that the industry is doing, and something... And I think the more that people understand it, and the more that we are communicating how great the industry is across all levels, right from high school, then working on programs to retain-
Speaker 1: Agreed.
Speaker 3: ... people in the industry, I think that there's so much work to be done there.
Speaker 1: Agree. And you see the tier ones, and even the tier twos now, they're investing in their own supply chains, learning and development growth, so they can actually have the capacity they need to deliver their projects. And that's a fantastic thing, normally people would be like, "I'm not spending anything outside of mine, and I've got my margin." Whereas they know to make their jobs viable, they need that skillset and capacity. So, it's nice to see some of those investments happening as well. I'm really excited, I think everyone... I think we're getting to the point now, and unfortunately we may or may not have more time than we wanted to at the moment with some of the challenges of when a project's coming to market and what's happening.
But I think people are stopping just talking about observing the problem, and kind of watching it from the grand stands eating their popcorn, and actually jumping on the field and going, "What role can I play to improve?" Which I think will be really exciting. And I also just think that people are being a little bit more organized around what can their organization do, you don't have to do everything for everyone all at once. But ultimately, there's an opportunity there for people to be able to contribute, to get the right talent into the market, keep the people inspired that are here, and also grow those opportunities whilst also delivering great outcomes. We've got our purpose statement, which is bright impact on people, places, projects, programs, policy, prosperity, and the planet.
And so we didn't want to have that many Ps, but we ended up with that many. Because if you work in policy in infrastructure, you have a huge impact. And so you need to be, even if you're in a government department, you actually need to be accountable and responsible for the amazing direction that you can set for that. The program managers, the people oversee billions of dollars' programs over many years, and sometimes decades. We've got an opportunity there to really have that bright impact, and I think that really motivates our team. And certainly through our services we're trying to touch all of those areas, because I think we'd make a better country, and also it's a much more inclusive country, and also a much more exciting industry to work in.
Because we're starting to unlock diversity, but also you know that every action you take will have a reaction, and hopefully a positive impact on the economy and the communities we work in, and that's a responsibility you should take really seriously.
Speaker 3: I agree. And you're seeing more and more, you said obviously tier one and tier two companies, and people in there looking at thinking outside the box, and looking at different solutions. We went this morning, my team and I, to do a brief for a new project. It was so great that the GM said, "Look, I want to look at this adjacent market, because I've reframed the way that we can resource this project, we understand there's a skill shortage there. And the transferable skills in this type of work would apply to this type of project, so even though it's not traditionally roads there are other skillsets learned from this manufacturing side of the business, and we can make it work." I nearly gave him a round of applause.
Speaker 1: You're like, "Yay."
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you are seeing people being more mindful of... And creative.
Speaker 1: And creative, we have this statement, "Frugality leads to creativity." Because that's really what people-
Speaker 3: True, yes.
Speaker 1: ... need to do, you're going to need to do more with less, and you're going to have to think that side. And even touching on the tier threes, fours and fives, some of the most amazing winners of different infrastructure programs, even in Victoria they've been having really strong policy around the inclusivity of the workforce, the targets around social procurement spending. And I think that's been setting a really good standard, and I've seen some amazing companies who are partnering with Indigenous businesses, cultural and linguistically diverse, migrant communities. Amazing stuff is happening, and because they're having to think differently, they're having to be creative and going, "Hey, I can't get the type of person that I used to get to solve this particular problem, so now I can unlock."
And all of a sudden, these businesses are basically able to be hugely successful because they've got a beautiful pipeline runway of work, they've got a great contractor to partner with, and that contractor's able to succeed more, and also win more work because of that partnership. So, that's exciting.
Speaker 3: And I think you hit the nail on the head as well when you looked at it from the frugality side of things, whenever there's a challenge there's also an opportunity.
Speaker 1: 1,000%.
Speaker 3: So if there's a skill shortage or a challenge, what's the opportunity? To get more people in the industry-
Speaker 1: 100%.
Speaker 3: ... and to look at where we can do that, and to be intelligent about thinking strategically when we're doing any sort of recruitment in projects or in industry, and looking and going, "Okay, how else could we bring someone through, what development programs do we need to be doing?" And again, what you spoke about, how we need to be shaping the roles with our clients around flexibility, even that two hour... Now that person that can go to the gym for two hours at lunchtime, that's just literally transformed their world, and then potentially they're retained longer, because they're well-being's good.
Speaker 1: 100%, because they're feeling great at work, and they're coming back, they're reset, they didn't eat the hot dog at the desk again, all that. I remember-
Speaker 3: Maybe that lady that ate the sandwich, well, maybe [inaudible 00:41:51]-
Speaker 1: Oh, [inaudible 00:41:51]. Well, talking [inaudible 00:41:52]-
Speaker 3: She would have had time to go to the gym.
Speaker 1: ... we're sticking to our food theme, I remember one of my first infrastructure jobs, the traffic controller, he used to eat every day Doritos, but dipped out of a can of tuna.
Speaker 3: Oh, gross.
Speaker 1: And he didn't smell good, but I love him to bits. But ultimately I thought that was a skill in itself, I haven't ever served that when I kind of put the platters out when I have people over, I haven't thought about the canned-
Speaker 3: The tuna?
Speaker 1: ... tuna with the Dorito dip chip. But it's a thing, and I think maybe that's what we should be rolling out. No, I'm just teasing. But look-
Speaker 3: Have you ever had-
Speaker 1: ... feeding people is important, I think, on our site.
Speaker 3: It is, food is an important thing. And I think in most episodes that have been to do with construction, there's been some sort of food element. Someone was saying how someone bought her a sub to thank her for the training that she did-
Speaker 1: Oh my God.
Speaker 3: ... on a previous episode. But, the old tuna can, I'll get off a tangent here. But do you remember the office managers that would... I had an office manager in an old job that would send out an email to everyone, and goes, "Can I please remind everybody that tuna has quite a stench, and if you are having tuna for lunch please rinse the can before you put it in the bin."
Speaker 1: Oh my God, I remember-
Speaker 3: And I knew who it was that had the tuna, and I'd be like, "Michael, did you see the email? How was your tuna?"
Speaker 1: He got busted. I remember when we first got our first proper, big office with our own kitchen and everything. And I was like, "Guys, I refuse to be a company that has the sign on the dishwasher," you know?
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 1: Clean, dirty, and then the bins with all the conditions. Having said that, there has been some times where I was like, "I should have got those signs." But I'm kind of like, "We're all adults here, let's care for each other," that's really important. But I'll have to share with you one about an amazing company that we do their kind of annual culture reviews for, and their number one perk for their company is the Christmas ham, they love it. Now, this is a very successful, fabulous business with great leaders, and people love their Christmas ham. And I thought, "Well, that says a lot, doesn't it, for our industry."
Speaker 3: It's just the simple things.
Speaker 1: It is, maybe we're very food-motivated, everything needs to have a... We're hungry hippos.
Speaker 3: Maybe you should, like at the end of the year, just send around a packet of Doritos and a tin of tuna to all your employees.
Speaker 1: No, don't worry clients, that's not getting added to the list, I'm definitely-
Speaker 3: It's going to catch on.
Speaker 1: I like a good lunch, and I like a wine, so I'm not going to go that direction.
Speaker 3: No, no. I think it actually-
Speaker 1: I actually hate canned tuna, so please everyone, no, that's not happening. That's not your thank-you gift.
Speaker 3: [inaudible 00:44:07] oh my gosh, I hope that... Now, if anyone's listening you know there's a sense of humor in construction, you are going to end up with a can of tuna.
Speaker 1: No!
Speaker 3: Someone's got to give it to you, the cat's out the bag now. But I think that's important, like little things, it's the little things that show in culture-
Speaker 1: It's care.
Speaker 3: I always had a place that I'd been once before that had a sign saying, "Please make sure you flush and use your brush," and then walk outside, "Please wash your hands," and things like that. And you're like, "Oh my goodness."
Speaker 1: Oh, I know.
Speaker 3: It's those little messages that people don't realize are telling the culture, are-
Speaker 1: Well aren't they? But it's also then, if you reframe it too it's like, well, habits and behaviors. So you're showing people the habits and behaviors... So someone kept letting everyone down, and I can tell you someone had a gutful, so they went and produced those signs. And they were like, "We're getting it out there."
Speaker 3: And then this was the same, and then they would send out an email saying, "Excuse me, can somebody who has used the toilet..." You know, it's just... [inaudible 00:44:59].
Speaker 1: Oh no, oh. It is scary on big projects, isn't it, when sometimes those all-in-one emails go out, and you know, a thousand people have received this update about the fridge, or the something, or the missing cupcake. And you're thinking-
Speaker 3: Yes, [inaudible 00:45:17] shaking his head at me.
Speaker 1: Hey, sorry, but this is the stuff we talk about. Let's get back to some serious work.
Speaker 3: I also want to talk... We do, we will. Until we get back to... Well, the other thing I want to talk about is taking away the office biscuits. So when you are in construction, and there's a downturn, and people are made redundant, people are unhappy about that. Where it really gets vicious is when they say, "Cost austerity measures, we're cutting the Arnott's biscuits on-site."
Speaker 1: Ooh. Look, I must admit, it's been a long time since I've seen a pack of Arnott's biscuits in a kitchen, but maybe they-
Speaker 3: On projects they... Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, I know, it's a thing, it's been a long time. Maybe that's a sign, it's a sign, the biscuits have been cut.
Speaker 3: It's the little things, it's the ham, it's the biscuits.
Speaker 1: I agree. Oh, but again, that just comes into the whole factor around culture and care, and human beings. People just want to be... Even some of the insights we get sometimes on projects when we're trying to drive that... Increasing their velocity and improving their productivity, it's like, "Okay, we've got to go after these goals this quarter and smash it out, whether it be in a company or..." And it just is like, people want to know if they get there they're going to get a thank you, they're going to get recognized for doing so good. And sometimes it's not monetary, it's actually just around that acknowledgement that you did good, we're really proud of you. And sometimes that is in the delivery of a simple gesture, whether that be a morning tea...
But ultimately, I think people just want to know that they're doing good, and that we see them, and I can see you're trying to do your very best, and thank you. But it's also a great little carrot for people to go, "Hey guys, if we do this we're going to get this outcome." And I think I see that too, sometimes, on these big sprints in infrastructure. Whether that be everyone working late or everyone contributing to a big milestone, people know that there's kind of going to be something everyone... And normally the food piece is about that community piece, they get to sit around and chat to their colleagues. So we're very people-orientated, I often say to the guys saying... We kind of love the County Women's Association, and people talk about that kind of sitting around and nattering together.
Well we love a good yarn, we love a good chat. So providing those forums is also a great place, if you put structure around it, make it learning and development, make it sharing, make it something interesting, then you're going to get a huge value out of those touch points as well.
Speaker 3: Yes. So, big question, D&M, what is the legacy you hope to leave in the world?
Speaker 1: My individual kind of legacy is around positive experiences that last a lifetime. So I want to know that I was part of work that enabled somebody to have an experience that they would talk about when they were old. And that's something that I want to try and every day challenge myself, to make sure that they're positive things. But ultimately, that's a huge opportunity. And then really, the Struber purpose, the bring impact on people, places, seven Ps, that is really important for us because I want to know that I went to those communities and tried to make those places more exciting for the next generation, through whether that be how we inform those people, how we got them through design, how we got them to utilize the asset, or how the team that was delivering the asset interacted with that community, or how the businesses spent and invested in those communities, I think that's a really important thing.
So I still feel like they're experiences that will last a lifetime, they might be transformational, and that's what I want to be famous for or remembered for. But I also keep getting told by people, "No-one's going to come to your funeral," you know what I mean? So just be good every single day, and try and be good to your family along the way, so that's important as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And you juggle a family too, I want to just note that you're a rock star, extraordinary mum. You've got a two-year-old, and an eight-
Speaker 1: And a nine-
Speaker 3: Nine now?
Speaker 1: [inaudible 00:48:34], so we had our first child, started Struber at six months of age. And then now, yeah, then had the two-year-old, so we kind of gave birth to Struber and then a second child, so it's good. Keeps us busy.
Speaker 3: You really have three kids, really.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right, we definitely have three kids.
Speaker 3: And have you learned a lot about the juggle with that as well?
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 3: You know, both of you having a business and kids.
Speaker 1: Agreed, and I certainly cheer for any parents in the industry all the time. We debrief, I had a client come in talking to me this morning, you can just see him grappling with managing the kids, and how they're going, and what's going on with them at school, and there's this constant parent responsibility and guilt that comes with living your full life. And I think we've got a community that you should be talking to, and people give me some amazing advice all the time. I'm not sure I'm always nailing it, but I try and wake up every day, and start fresh, and be good. And I've got beautiful, bubbly girls, and they're really an inspiration. And they will cheer for me, or they'll pull me up if I'm not being well-behaved, so that's good.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think as well with children and things like that, that that's one thing that I find is something always relatable. Like if you've got kids, and you're in business, and you talk to somebody else that's got kids and in business, or trying to do the juggle, we can all relate, you know?
Speaker 1: Agreed.
Speaker 3: It's okay to be honest about it, you know?
Speaker 1: Agreed.
Speaker 3: If you haven't had a lot of sleep, and your kids had croup, or... You get up, and you show up the next day, and you get through, and you power through, and you do your best work still, you know?
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 3: I love that discussion you had around energy and things like that as well, and bringing your best energy to work.
Speaker 1: Agreed.
Speaker 3: Because that's what we're passionate about as well, because you just have to get on, yep.
Speaker 1: Snap up, and you go again, and it reset, agreed. And it's actually quite cute, I've had many clients sort of... It's they're raising their teenagers, and even their kind of kids heading into university and whatever. And they've said, "Oh Julie, can I send my daughter or son in to have a chat with you?" Particularly the daughters, because they want to sort of have them connected, I think they... Then their daughters come in, I'll talk to them, and they have no idea what their amazing dad or mum does in the infrastructure industry. And they're like, "What are you talking about? I just know Dad's always away, or he seems to be really motivated by his work, I didn't even understand what it was." And so I kind of translate for them not only to be inspired by what their parents have been contributing to infrastructure, but also what the pathway could be for them in infrastructure.
Because they kind of probably look at their parents sometimes and go, "I don't want to be doing that, that would be cool." But also I like that, so I've been able to kind of do some mentoring conversations to help them find their career pathway in infrastructure, or help them go outside infrastructure, get some skillsets to bring back. So I also think that's a beautiful thing not only as a parent, but also as a member of the infrastructure community, to be able to help other people with their own children. Because I certainly know as a parent sometimes you're like, "Help me with my kid, I don't know if I'm screwing them up." No, just teasing, but-
Speaker 3: We won't know until years later in therapy, really.
Speaker 1: No, that's right. Well that's right, well I've got a seven-year gap so I'll get the second one right, hopefully. No, I'm just teasing.
Speaker 3: Practice makes perfect.
Speaker 1: No, we wish them all the best.
Speaker 3: Look, just wanted to go through the rocket round with you, we're there, because I could talk to you all day. Favorite book?
Speaker 1: Stephen Covey, Speed of Trust. And I also like Discovery of Witches, Deborah Harkness.
Speaker 3: You're the second person to mention Discovery of Witches, so that's got to go on a... I think we should do a... Going to do a book list I think, of all-
Speaker 1: I don't think you need any more on your to-do list. Oh, a book list of what people share? Yes, okay, that's okay. I was like, "Honey, you need to chill." The A-type personality needs to just stop for a second. No, I'm just teasing.
Speaker 3: I'm not writing a book yet. I plan to one day.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I would love that book. Go, girl.
Speaker 3: Holiday destination?
Speaker 1: I love beach and relaxation, I'm going to say the Maldives.
Speaker 3: Ooh, nice. Cats or dogs?
Speaker 1: Dogs. Poor cats.
Speaker 3: Coffee or wine?
Speaker 1: Wine, I haven't drinked coffee in about 12 years.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you've got enough energy without it.
Speaker 1: You do not want to see me on coffee, I know. Some clients were like, "Oh, that's a good thing."
Speaker 3: White Christmas or summer Christmas?
Speaker 1: Oh, well I like a white Christmas because I always have a summer Christmas, and I know growing up in north Queensland you're just sitting there, just sweating.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, sweating, yes.
Speaker 1: Sweating over some sort of hot meat that you wish was freezing cold. So, I love a white Christmas, and when I lived overseas for work I enjoyed that.
Speaker 3: Nice. And podcast that you're listening to right now?
Speaker 1: I'm liking the Female Founders, the AFR one. But I listen to quite a lot, entrepreneur ones, infrastructure ones, weird, kind of mystery ones, it depends on how much driving time I've got. But I seem to be spending a lot of time flying at the moment, so I'm usually just bashing out on my laptop.
Speaker 3: Female Founders? I had eyeballed that one, and sort of put that on a little [inaudible 00:52:55].
Speaker 1: Yes, it's well-organized, like in content.
Speaker 3: And what makes you feel like you're home?
Speaker 1: My little darlings I think, and we just recently relocated back to home in Burleigh Heads, that's where we sort of started the business and launched it. And I feel like that ability to go, "Ah," when you've finished a day of work, or finished something and celebrating. So yeah, no, my little ones, I look forward to being with them.
Speaker 3: I love that. I've loved having you on the podcast, Julie, and it's always a good chat.
Speaker 1: I know. I hope we got some serious content out there-
Speaker 3: I think we did.
Speaker 1: ... because I feel like we loved the chat part.
Speaker 3: We loved the chat part-
Speaker 1: Love you to bits.
Speaker 3: ... and I think that there's some gold nuggets for people out there, you know?
Speaker 1: Good, we got some gems.
Speaker 3: And at the end of the day, if people walk away with one or two things that's impacted their day-
Speaker 1: Agreed.
Speaker 3: ... and then they go out and create an opportunity in their own life, then we've won.
Speaker 1: Agreed, and even if they're out buying a morning tea for their team, we've been successful.
Speaker 3: Even if they have Doritos and tuna, for the first time.
Speaker 1: Oh my God, we are never going to mention that again.
Speaker 3: No. They've built the door, they've created an opportunity to try a new food group.
Speaker 1: Oh my God.
Speaker 3: What are ways people can support you?
Speaker 1: Oh, to support me?
Speaker 3: Yeah, you and Struber.
Speaker 1: Well I think really just Struber. Well, cheering for us I think is a really beautiful thing, I think when we won the Telstra Best of Business Award I loved... I literally got calls from clients that are international, people who had moved overseas messaging, old bosses, it was lovely. So I think cheering for us is really good, and then also being open to the diversity of things that we do. I think we grew as a communication engagement consultant, and we've taken that bag of tricks now into our leadership, culture, even learning and development, hiring, recruitment, in terms of actually our specialty in getting people to actually understand how to grow those teams within their team. You can place somebody, but you've got to actually unlock their talent. So we're kind of getting involved in their training-
Speaker 3: Love that, yep.
Speaker 1: ... and learning and development, but also just asking for us if you need a hand. But also, we're always interested in how we can help our clients or help the industry, so get us involved in anything that's around the transition stuff, and anything that's going to help us take it to the next level and put a rocket up this industry.
Speaker 3: I love that. Thank you so much for coming on and being a guest, Julie. Thank you for being-
Speaker 1: Always a pleasure.
Speaker 3: ... an amazing beacon of industry, you're the best.
Speaker 1: You're the best.
Speaker 3: No, you're the best.
Speaker 1: No, you're the best.
Speaker 3: All right, we'll wrap it up now, girl. Thanks, Julie.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to Building Doors. If you've got comments or questions, send them to hello@buildingdoors.com.au, and remember to subscribe, rate and review. See you next time.