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“Know Your Children with Rav Shlomo Katz” is a series about the everyday holy work of raising children with heart, patience, and honesty. Join Rav Shlomo in learning from the sefer Da Et Yeladecha by Rav Itamar Shwartz, author of Bilvavi Mishkan Evneh, and explore how Torah and Chazal guide us in building a healthy, loving connection between parent and child.
This isn’t about perfect techniques or quick fixes. It’s about creating a foundation of truth, learning to really listen, and finding the right “funnel” so that what we want to give actually reaches our children. Each shiur is meant to be practical, gentle, and encouraging, and something you can take home and live with.
בוקר טוב, שבוע טוב. We're learning לעילוי נשמת בתיה פייגא בת ישראל, לעילוי נשמת לוי בן יוסף, and for a רפואה שלמה for עליזה חנה בת נעמי and שושנה יונה בת איידל. And the week that was offered a month of חשוון, the week is sponsored by ישראל and Malka Wolfson לעילוי נשמת אברהם מרדכי בן יוסף, may his נשמה have an עלייה.
אמן.
Alright חבר'ה. So we are continuing on דף ט' in the ספר דעת ידך by the בלזאוויוו, by רב איתמר שוורץ. And what we began speaking about, I believe last week we learned, right? Last week we learned last Sunday, we spoke about the third level of love of קשר, of an experience of a relationship between parents and children, which is called a קשר נפשי.
קשר נפשי.
Whereas when we were young, when the kids were just born, it was a קשר טבעי, a natural קשר. When they grew up a little bit there was more, okay, this is who they are. I can connect to this, I don't connect to this so much, but I'm going to try to connect to what I can connect to. But then we started speaking about this next level, which is called קשר נפשי.
We only began it last week, but we're going to get much more deeper into it this week and probably also next week as well. And even though in the beginning of the text that we're going to see today, it may seem a שטיקל redundant, actually it won't be redundant for those that weren't in last week's שיעור, so that that's good. But for even those that were in last week's שיעור, we're going to be strengthening something, we're going to be we're going to really be highlighting this concept of a קשר נפשי. We learned it last week based on the פסוק that describes the relationship between יעקב אבינו and his son בנימין, ונפשו קשורה בנפשו.
Remember that פסוק?
ונפשו קשורה בנפשו. The question, the question we kind of have today is, is it really something that we could expect? Is it right to expect that our children should have should see us? When we speak about חינוך we're always speaking about we have to see our children, see our children. Is it feasible even, is it something that it's worth even trying to have, trying to get to, this whole this whole world of, well, my my children, my children have to see me also. My kids have to see me.
They don't have to love and give and nurture like I give to the child, but they have to see me too. Well, now we go back to the first thing we learned. If we want to establish a funnel, משפך, if we want to create a proper funnel to give over to our children that which is coming from our heart of hearts, on the other side of the funnel, not the one that's coming out from us, and not necessarily the צינור, the actual conduit through which I want to give to my child what I want to give them, there it seems, the way that רב שוורץ is developing this concept, there needs to be on the other side of the funnel this what we call ונפשו קשורה בנפשו, that the kid has learned and has developed a sense of seeing their parents to a certain extent. And that in the modern world we don't hold of at all.
מה פתאום? It's not about them, it's just you giving and giving and you'll figure out a way to crack the code, and eventually the חינוך you want to give them will just, they'll they'll get it. You may not see it at a young age but you'll see when they're older, they they it'll last. And we don't bank on that. We don't bank on that.
We're going to see something very, what may seem to be demanding on on the on the child today, but it's actually the way that a funnel works. Because if we're going back to that משל back, you know, if we keep on returning back to the funnel system, this is how a funnel works. So on דף ט'… Sorry? Isn't that what כיבוד אב ואם is for, to help the child in the other direction? Sometimes when you when you tell a child you have a מצווה to לכבד your parents, they, בן סורר ומורה suddenly erupts like, you know, you created a בן סורר ומורה just by mentioning that מצווה of כיבוד הורים. Of course that has to be up there, it has to be in the air, but you have to be very delicate when we bring that to the picture of how we are with our children.
You know, we have to be very, very delicate. You never want a situation where you walk into a room and your kids are still sitting on the couch or at the table or on the floor and you're like... right? You're laughing, there's חבר'ה that are still kind of there. Even if they don't do, there's this demand of like, what? You know, יידישע home, כיבוד הורים.
So then what we go to is the extreme of being like, whatever, kids aren't just meant for this anymore and we completely neglect that. But there's got to be the in-between between the two. And in the healthiest home, the healthy, healthy home that we're trying to establish, there is a beautiful, beautiful place that's between the two, that's between the two, which is where we're trying to establish it where it is very, the כיבוד הורים is organic. However, here we're not just limiting it to the concept of כיבוד הורים.
בנפשו קשורה בנפשו is not just כיבוד הורים, because a parent doesn't have a מצוה to מכבד their children, they have an ענין to מחנך their children. So it's a little bit different, but we'll see. We'll see, let's see how this goes. And I know these, these שיעורים bring up a lot, a lot of questions and a lot of people wanting to say things.
Just today, give me a little bit of just going through, just a little bit, a lot of bit really. I'm just being nice, but just let's, because because there's something very fundamental here. There's something very fundamental that I want us to to give it our all.
ברם ישנו ממד נוסף של אהבה שהוא בבחינת נפשו קשורה בנפשו.
סוג זה של אהבה אינו חד סטרי, אלא דו צדדי. Like we said last week, this is not a one-way relationship. This is the two-way relationship we began speaking about last week.
כשם שההורה אוהב את הילד, אף הוא משיב לו אהבה.
Just like the parent loves the child, the child in return responds and gives back love to a parent.
הורה שירצה לבדוק זאת, you wanna check this, יוכל להבחין בכך במצבים מיוחדים. It happens more clearly in special occasions.
כגון כאשר ההורה נעדר מהבית לתקופה מסוימת.
When a parent is outside of the house for a certain period of time. He brings here the example of כזמני לידה. You know, in his world, that would happen, that happens very often, you know, where the mother's going out to give birth and because that's the only time she's really not in the house, right? In this, you know, in the circles that he's speaking to, I'm sure. But obviously in the world that we're living in, sometimes we go away, father has to travel on business quite often, could be, like many people here in the קהילה.
And then, the והילדים נפגשים עמו לאחר זמן and then the kids see them after a while.
פעמים שנפש ההורה יוצא מגעגועים לילדיו. And sometimes we we we long, we miss our children so much, אולם כאשר הילדים נפגשים עמו, and then when the kids meet him or her, לא תמיד הוא מבחין בצהלה על פניהם של העוללים. So you may miss your kids so much, then you finally come home.
You know what, you know what an עולל is, right?
מפי עוללים ויונקים יסדת עוז. An עולל is an infant. There may be a שמייכל, there may be a smile for like the first second you walk into the house after being away for a while, but that experience of, we're going to meet each other again, fades the second after that. It's, it lasts for like actually like a second, and then it goes back.
הרי שהאהבה הזו אינה חד צדדית בלבד, שלפעמים היא ניכרת מאוד, ופעמים שאינה ניכרת מסיבות חיצוניות כמובן. We're not we're not basing, we're not trying to establish the נפשו קשורה בנפשו based on these special occasions.
קשר בין הורה לילדיו שבכוחו להוביל לחינוך. A connection between a parent and their children, the type of קשר that can bring about education and teaching and חינוך, חייב להיות בבחינת כמים הפנים אל הפנים, כן לב האדם אל האדם, which is usually terminology we we we, we plug in when it comes to deeper relationships, older relationships of heart to heart, seeing each other face to face.
And he's actually, there's a big demand here. He's saying, no, no, no, the homes we're trying to establish is that our our kids see us, not that they have, not necessarily our goal in life is for them to see how tired we are and they have compassion on us. Not that anyone in this room has tried it here, but if you've ever told your kid, I've been up for three hours before you even woke up, and I've been, those things, that's not what we're speaking about. Those things do not bring your kid to see you, they bring your kid to feel guilty about them being a kid.
That's not what we're speaking about.
בכלל בכלל לא. We're going to explain what it is.
היינו, שהאהבה חייבת לנבוע משני הצדדים.
The love must sprout forth from both ends.
וזהו המתכון היחיד שיכול להוות המשפך שעליו יבנה השלב שהוא החינוך, and only upon this can a funnel be created and instituted. And once the funnel is established, only then, then and only then can the word חינוך become part of parenting. Do you know how many people never, ever begin the world of חינוך with the funnel? There is this demand they feel on them, I brought children to the world, I got to make sure that they're doing.
I'm not even speaking about for the wrong reasons, meaning there's the wrong reasons of wanting to feel that you're מחנך your children. What are the wrong reasons? Come on. What are some of the wrong reasons that may...?For other people to admire.בדיוק, big, big one, big one. I'm part of the ציבור.
I may even be a bigger face in the ציבור.
בטח. What are they going to say? How is this going to look? But now we're talking about even the right reasons. Now what's the right reason to want to מחנך your child?Because it's the greatest privilege in the world.Because what a what a beautiful gift.
And I and I want to and I have to. For the right reasons. You can even want it for the right reasons and have no idea that before you try to give over the חינוך stuff consciously, not passively, consciously, there needs to be established in that relationship the funnel. Only after there's this קשר נפשי can the real חינוך begin to go inside.And he continues.
Meaning, just one second. I don't want to discredit, חלילה, the natural things that children pick up while they grow up. 100%. So many stories I've heard of kids that, of girls that somehow made it through life and held on to אידישקייט.
And you ask them, how did you hold on?
בתכלס, what did you hold on to? My parents were very sweet, they didn't know much but they did their best. But then the world is the world, and the השפעות of the world are the השפעות of the world. But I saw how my mother always had a tear in her eye when she בנטש when she בנטש שבת candles, right? When she was doing הדלקת נרות. So, I don't want to discredit those moments that we subconsciously give over to our children so, so much, more than we realize, more than we understand, but that's not a שיטה.
You understand the difference? That's not a מהלך. That's not a conscious way of saying, this is how I am embarking on the מצווה and the privilege and the obligation to educate my children.
אני לא סומך על זה. Bless you.
It's got to be part of it, and hopefully a lot of those things our children do pick up on, but that's not what we're banking on because we are in this שיעור at least we're saying, we're attempting to discover or to learn from this רב how does he explain בשיטתיות with methodology, how these things work. And like I said in the first שיעור, this is a שיטה. This is not the only way. But it's a very, very strong way and a very concentrated way that I believe if you put your קישקעס into it and hear what the צדיק is saying, and for a second remove all the things that we already hold to be the אמת לאמיתה, there could be some amazing things that will be transpiring within our relationships with our children, which is what we want more than anything else in the world to be refined and beautiful and holy.בוגרים רבים בדורנו.
You see the next paragraph.
בוגרים רבים בדורנו יכולים להעיד. Many adult, more older children in our generation could testify, שהקשר שלהם עם ההורים לקוי. Something's lacking.
Something's lacking between the relationship that they have with the relationship they have with their parents.
ילדים רבים אף סבורים, and I don't want to, this is not group therapy and I don't want you to raise your hand and give a personal example about this, לטוב או לרע, okay?
לטוב או לרע. But many children are, they would say, שהוריהם אפילו אינם מבינים מה הם רוצים. Their parents don't even know what they're what their kids want.
דבר שלדאבוננו מתברר פעמים רבות כאמיתי ונכון. This is something that quite often unfortunately we see that's actually the truth, that parents don't even really understand what their children are looking for, what they want, because they're not thinking about when it comes to חינוך, let me discover what my child's needs are. Rather, where are they operating from?From themselves. What do I believe they should have?For for hundreds of years that's what it was like, you know.
For hundreds of years. that was what it was like, what it was like. My father told me when he was growing up, you know, most, most kids that he knew, the parents told them who they're going to marry. Right? The parents decided who they're going to marry.
It's still like this in many circles. Sometimes it's pretty accurate. But the point is that's not the world we're living in, obviously, but the example that's given is that a parent says, I'll חינוך from a holy place.
השם trusted you, trusted me with you, which means it's my obligation to tell you what you want.
To even tell you and notify you, listen, this may be what you think you want, but it's not really we're we're the חינוך givers. We we explain to you what you want.
ברוך השם we've, you know, it's not the world that we're that that that we're we're we're stuck in, but it happens quite often that children feel my parents don't even know what I want, what I'm looking for, what I'm dreaming of. And if they did, אוי ואיי זמיר, they're even petrified to tell their parents.
So we've seen that change newly in the classroom also. We've gone from teacher-centered to child-centered learning.
יפה. But it's important for this שיעור to stick not to the classroom, to the parents because the the job, the חינוך of a teacher has nothing to do with the חינוך of a parent.
Completely different world.
ובדרך כלל השורש לכך נובע מכך שלעיתים ההורים חיים בעולם שונה לחלוטין מעולמם של ילדיהם. Sometimes the root of this comes from the fact that parents are living in a completely different world than their children.
הילד מביט על אביו מלמטה למעלה ואומר בליבו אבי הוא מהדור הקודם ואינו מבין את הצרכים שלי.
Have your kids asked you yet if there were pictures, if there were cameras when you were kids? That's על דרך צחוק, meaning like to our to our children, some of us are ממש ancient. Like we are we are ancient. We are not from this דור at all. And if that's the case, you can't possibly understand what it's like to be a kid in my generation.
But you realize that that was true in every single generation. Every every kid at a certain point since the beginning of time could have had that טענה. The question is, are we finally bold enough to say, you know, ריבונו של עולם, maybe this generation, this generation needs to have parents that, uh, that say, you're right. I need to I need to know your generation more.
I have what I have from my generation, but I need to I need to understand your generation much more. I need to be plugged in to what it's like to be you for a few minutes. Maybe. We're going to keep that open right now.
כאשר נקלעים למצב כזה, when we reach a situation like this, that a child feels you have you can't possibly give over anything to me because you don't know what it's like to be me and you don't know what my generation is like and you don't understand what I want. What's the immediate gut reaction we have?
התוצאה היא שהאבא ינסה לחנך. Now it's time for חינוך.
להסביר לבנו.
Now you're going to explain to your child.
אולם הדבר דומה לאחד שמנסה לשפוך מים מלמעלה למטה ללא משפך. What is it, what's the example he's saying? You know what happens when you try to give over something in that situation? You're trying to pour water, I would say like take two bottles, and you're trying to pour water from a bottle that's up here, this is where you're holding yourself to be, and you're trying to get it into the bottle that's right here, but there's no funnel between the two. What ends up happening?
אין, זה לא, it's nothing.
And you could be saying the most holiest words, and yet, if it goes nowhere, so שכוח for you and your holy words that you have to say. But it's going nowhere.
כמובן שהתוצאה תהיה שהמים יזלו החוצה. The waters will be pouring out.
הבקבוק למטה, and not only will the will the waters be pouring out and not, you know, getting in there, הבקבוק למטה יישאר ריק, but the bottle below is is is remaining empty.
והכל מסביב מוצף. But in the meantime, on the side, what's happening? Everything's מוצף, is overflowing, is flooded.
ואז מתחילים הצעקות, don't you understand me? No, I have no idea what you're saying.
But you didn't hear what I said. I heard the words you said, but it didn't, if a if only a child could be able to articulate this clear, but not one word of what you said went into me. Nothing. Nothing that you said.
So now we have to begin, look at the way that השם created the world and look how the way השם created relationships. What do you think would have been deeper? Had had השם created חווה and קין and הבל first and then bring אדם into the picture? What do you think would have made a שטיקל more sense? If the first relationships were parents and afterwards soulmates? Now obviously, physiologically, this is not a it's not a מציאות, but I'm saying it's not a חכמה. You know, the truth is what?
השם couldn't have taken חווה's צלעות, her her ribs, and from that have brought these these two boys or one boy?Why did השם create it that first there's a type of relationship that's a קשר נפשי, and only afterwards there's a קשר between a parent and child? And he's going to develop this, because it'll answer a lot of the questions that we have.הסדר של הקדוש ברוך הוא בבריאה. By the way, everyone's been very patient now and I really appreciate it.
הסדר של הקדוש ברוך הוא בבריאה הוא שבשלב ראשון בני הזוג נישאים. In the beginning of creation, the beginning is, a couple becomes one, they come together.
ורק לאחר מכן נולדים הילדים. And children only come afterwards.
כעת נתבונן, האם השלב הראשון של הקשר בין בני הזוג הוא קשר חד סטרי או שהוא חייב להיות קשר הדדי? Now let's take a deeper look. Does the first level of connection between a couple, does it, is it a is it a one-way connection or is it a mutual connection?So there's always the outcast, but כמובן, sorry about the the photocopying. You have to go to the next page, י', not the one that follows, but the one after that, י'. Not sure how that happened in there.כמובן שקשר בריא בין בני זוג חייב להיות מבוסס על הדדיות.
You know what that word is?
הדדיות. How do you say it? Mutuality. Of course, that's what it's like with the relationship between between husband, between two adults that are looking to establish a home and a relationship and a connection.
ולא רק מצד אחד, and not just a one-way thing.
אם כן, כאשר נולדים ילדים להורים שהקשר ביניהם נבנה כדיבאי, when children are born to parents whose relationship is was established and continues to be built, כדיבאי is an Aramaic which means כמו שצריך.
באי means רוצה, צריך, right? When the connection between them is כמו שצריך, בוודאי שקל יותר להוריהם לפתח אף עמהם קשר דו צדדי. This is a very, very important, important thing. Whether we like it or not, our relationship with our children mirrors the relationship that they see growing up between their אמא and אבא, between the mother and father.
It's easier, רב רב שוורץ is saying, it's much more easier and practical and tangible for parents to be able to develop a קשר נפשי with a child who grew up seeing and witnessing a קשר נפשי. Homes where there wasn't really a קשר נפשי between the parents, maybe it was at a certain point, but not from the time the kids were born, that stopped being what it was about. It was more meeting each other one way. So he's saying that it's easier, it's easier.
It's not it's not necessarily always true, but it's easier for a child then to understand, oh, wait a second, there is there is this ענין because they're exposed to it. Now, it's not always like this. He's saying it's קל יותר. When that's what they were, when that's what they know.
אכן אדם שמנסה לבסס את חייו, אדם שמנסה, in the brackets, אדם שמנסה לבסס את חייו בביתו על קשר חד צדדי, רחמנא ליצלן, אף הקשר עם ילדיו עלול להמשיך באותו מהלך. And it's so true. That a person that said that that that love, that that seeing each other, that building a relationship, that was שנה ראשונה stuff. That was שנה ראשונה stuff.
But get practical. Get practical.
שנה ב', שנה ג', שנה ד' in the home, that's already something else. That's אל תחיה בשמיים, don't live in the clouds.
So he's saying over here that a person that at a certain point just felt that the קשר that was once a קשר נפשי with the spouse, but now I just have to make sure that I'm checking all the holy boxes, but I'm checking them. He's saying that that type of a parent will then go on to the next generation and say, okay, what do you need? What do you need? Actually, no, don't even tell me. I'll tell you what you need. Right? I'll tell you what you need.And therefore, he says these things can חוזר, can Now again, there's no שיטתיות here, it's not always like this.
But he's saying we're trying to build the ultimate experience for the relationships. Now I know what many of you are thinking. Many of you are thinking, I'm probably doomed. Why? Because I, I'm not saying me, I'm saying what many people may think, because that's not what I saw growing up.
I didn't see a קשר נפשי. I remember there was one, one woman, I'm just saying already, she may be in this room and maybe, maybe not be in this room, doesn't even matter. But she's not in this room, I'm just telling you, that at one, one time came into the office and said that she's determined to have no, when she's looking for a זיווג, no, when she was looking, I mean she was already married, she was explaining about what it was like to go out and find someone. She said, I grew up till I was like 25 thinking that all I need to do is to find someone that'll be good enough in order to have children.
But then, but not at all the קשר, basically, I'm putting words in her mouth, but the קשר נפשי was like יחיד בדורו. Meaning, the real lucky ones get a קשר נפשי between, between a זיווג.Now, I, you know, she had just gotten married. So, I didn't want to tell her like, you know that's not necessarily true, or the right way to approach anything, but that's what she knew from home. Meaning, all she saw from home was that you don't really get that lucky.
Some people do, some people don't, she didn't. But over here what we're trying to say is that no matter what we saw growing up, just because we saw something growing up, and just because it became a שטיקל of our aura or DNA, or that's what we think, אין דבר העומד בפני הרצון. Nothing stands in the face of what you want. What do you want right now? Well, I want my child to feel a קשר נפשי with me.
Beautiful. Do you also want that from your spouse? Of course that's what I want from my spouse. Do you feel that it's possible? That's where it gets confusing sometimes. And we have to believe באמונה שלמה that the ריבונו של עולם didn't give us children and said, here, you have no chance.
זה לא זה. And children aren't brought to the world to fix your relationship with your spouse either. That's also a very big no no.What we're trying to do here is to create the most ideal picture in our own situations in lives wherever we find ourselves and to דאווענען. In שירת דוד when we learn, we have to דאווענען over what we learn.
These are not things that we say, okay, this is his שיטה, I either have it or not. When there's a שיטה presented before us that touches the heart, that does something to us, you have to attach it immediately to the world of דאווענען. And quite often, like there was a time I stopped opening up all the חסידישע ספרים. Why? Because I just felt so low every time I learned about a beautiful story.
Every time I learned like this amazing story about a צדיק or anything, instead of it lifting me up, I I felt, did anyone ever else experience this before? I had to just like, I'm done with this. I can't, I can't do this. I just, like the point, I'm sure, is not that I should feel so low, but this is what it's making me, this is what it's bringing to me, it's what it's causing my heart.So when we learn תורות like this and we're describing this beautiful picture, it's in order to have an התעוררות, to have a התעוררות in the heart and saying, this seems so worth something דאווענען for. Even if that's not what I saw growing up, and even if up until now in my parenting this is not the experience that I think my children had, אין דבר העומד בפני הרצון.
Nothing stands in the way of רצון, of having a will, of having a desire. Because let's face it, it is rare. It's exists, but it's rare that this is exactly how the home was. Kids grew up seeing constant mutuality, parents constantly meeting each other.
And then at a certain point the child developed a more mature relationship with the parent and then the parent was just trying to discover what do you, who are you? What are you really about? What are your needs? And then that continued to the next generation. That's very rare. You're laughing. And your generation probably didn't even, not to, but I'm just saying, when you were a kid it probably בכלל didn't.
Like the רב says, they had an excuse, the reason.
נכון, they had an, every generation had an excuse. They had the war. Right, and but we could say the same thing right now.
Yes, that's true. We could say the same thing right now. There was time now for קשר נפשי? Get into the ממ"ד. I could say that, that's my excuse of two years.
There's always excuses.
זה לא משנה. They always are.Okay, so the next paragraph.
כשם שאנו מבינים שקשר בין בני זוג חייב להיות הדדי.
Just like we understand that the relationship, the connection between a couple must be mutual.
והאהבה ביניהם אינה יכולה להיות רק מצד אחד. And the love between them can't just be one way.
אף כאשר הקדוש ברוך הוא נותן לנו ילדים, שהם תולדה מאותו קשר בין בני הזוג, הקשר איתם חייב להיבנות על אותו משקל של הקשר ההדדי בין ההורים.
You know what the word תולדה means? Offspring. Right? Something that was born out of something.
נכון. Where do we have this in הלכה, by the way?
הלכות שבת.
Right. The 39 מלאכות of שבת. There's אבות מלאכה, the 39, and then there's תולדות, things that are born out of. Well, this is the אב, this is the, I forgot how you say it in English, but it's like the מלאכת בורר.
There's like 500 million תולדות coming out of מלאכת בורר. It's born out of the concept. You know what all the children are at a certain level, חלילה, besides God forbid, children that are born from a, from a non-relationship of a coercion, חס ושלום.
חס ושלום.
But children are born from the origins of a קשר נפשי. What happened afterwards? It's irrelevant. I mean, it's relevant, but it's irrelevant in the context of, children are born out of a קשר נפשי. That's how they're born out into the world.
There was, whether whether the relationship lasted or not or how good it was afterwards, זה לא משנה. But that thing that established the experience and the existence of the child in the world was two people that at a certain point in life saw each other, הדדיות.
הדדיות, meeting each other, mutuality. There's not even, not exactly the same, but a certain extent.
And that's why he's saying over here, if they're born from that, that means the משקל, that means that that must be accompanying them at a certain point in a more revealed manner, not when they're three weeks old, not when they're two months old, but later in life when they are already with, you see there's a mental development, emotional development, you see, oh, משהו קורה פה. You want to say something? I thought your hand, I mean, you probably could say something here. It's fine now, you could. We got to where I wanted to get to by the way.
This was the paragraph I really wanted to get to. Now you can ask questions. Not not necessarily questions. Over but I just want to stress this last נקודה over here.
That meaning we want to look at the experience of having a child in terms of the way that השם designed the world. Like that that's that's what we're trying to do over here. Like the way השם designed the world. Why, now we can answer the question we had before, why didn't God first create a mother and a and a child? Because if that was the case, then what would be the like, the the functionality of that relationship forever, כביכול?
חד צדדי.
It would probably be, well, this is the origins of relationships. It's just giving and don't ever think that you should receive and the kid doesn't need to feel you, see you or whatever it is. No. They're born out of a relationship of seeing each other and that light must escort the relationship ווייטער.
Just stick to one question. So, well, I'm just wondering because you said that... [Error processing chunk 8] that's established between a couple and the child, and it's not direct things. It's more the general approach of how you how you look what what the child saw growing up, but in a in a very much תמונה כללית.
Because what if I don't, what if with my spouse I feel like, my God, we were we were together in חורבן בית שני and the Romans and and and we each died trying to save ירושלים. But when I look at my kid, I'm like, sorry, I don't recognize you from any גלגול, you know? Like, so so therefore, But the kid feel even if a husband and wife can have differences or argue, the kids feel that at a deep level. That it's that right, because the okay, so הבנתי now, because the soul connection goes deeper than the day-to-day.
בדיוק, then בדיוק, then then then just the day-to-day stuff that sometimes on things that you don't work and you have to, you have to, you know, נכון.
and and establish with your children. I I do think that the children do, they feel this deep love that the parents have for each other, even if it's not always like, it's 100%. like it's always seen, you know, in a very, you know, obvious way.
נכון.
נכון. You know, I you know when I, you know the most and the only thing that I miss about, there's only one thing that I miss about playing weddings. The only thing. And that's the moment that the parents realize that they're about to give off their child to the other person.
But ברוך השם I do a lot of חופות and I so I I still have that, I guess. I guess I don't miss it because I I see it much deeper, actually, because I'm actually like standing with them and guiding them at that at that holy moment. And I I lost it last week. I don't know why, maybe it was post-חגים energy.
Our friend Eli and Bonnie Stone, Eli, Eli's nephew got married in uh far out place, צון קדר, if you know where that is, behind מעלה אדומים.
ממש מדבר, desert of the desert. And um, I I don't know what it was. It was probably a lot of imagination, but I I'm sure that it was it was a very deep moment where the father, the parents were giving off the the child at that moment, and I was thinking, wow.
At that moment is the last second that the parent is basically the kid is still in the רשות of the parents. Like, what's that last message as a someone that's still under כאילו jurisdiction of the parents, you're like, what are they feeling at that moment giving over to the child, right? And I saw that one of the the actually both sides, but it was a most amazing thing that that um, the the parents decided at that moment to hold on to to each other so tightly as opposed to going to the kid and trying to hold him. Do you understand? It was, it hit me so deep. Like that was the צאתכם לשלום message.
The קשר, that was the קשר נפשי. Not I want to give you. It's like, yeah, I want to give you the whole world. And by doing this, this is how I'm going to give you the whole world, you know? My God, it was so deep.
You know, I'll share with you this afternoon, I have a crazy, it's it's a privilege, it's an unfortunate privilege, but it's a privilege to uh to today it's very rare occasion to sing to by the חופה of Rachel Goldberg who's getting married today in כפר עציון. What's so crazy, you know Rachel Goldberg, right? Who lost her husband, Avi, רב Avi Goldberg. She's a mother of eight kids. The the one that plays violin, spoke about her in שול many times.
And um, like, and I was thinking the whole time, like, I'm thinking about because, you know, her parents are still in this world and I'm thinking what's going to be at that at that moment. And then I realized like that was already done by the אלף. Here it's just going to be like taking what was in the first relationship, which was an amazing קשר נפשי, amazing קשר נפשי, both sides, he was a widower too, החתן, and just bringing that together and and just. But basically, those moments of like right before you build that house, what's the most potent קשר נפשי that could be established then is really, I think, like what I saw last week of like the the the parents as a last כאילו moment of חינוך are saying, see each other, hold, you want to, you want to know what I wish for you? I'm holding, I'm holding your אמא, I'm holding your אבא, you know? Those are the most amazing things and that's the that's the קשר נפשי.
You wanted to say something? Yeah, it's not really on topic but. That's okay, that's okay. So you think a big part of a relationship and you're seeing the קשר though is very physical, is very palpable. I don't think you really mention that.
It's like I know that my mother randomly giggled while she was washing dishes because my dad would go behind her and like pinch her like till I. And it was amazing because I was like a manifestation of their relationship. They were the opposite in personality, complete opposite everything, but they loved each other and that was such a role model for me to say, oh look like I love when my kids are like, oh you and אבא. and I'm like, you are so lucky that your parents like each other.
Like, you are so so lucky and you'll appreciate it one day. It's a big, that's a big. It's a it's the kids see it. It's very physical for the kids to see.
Ilana, how many times a day should a parent touch their child? Three times a day. There was a song called four hugs a day. And my 13-year-old's like, you know I've had three. Oh, that's beautiful.
It's really cute. That's that's that's געוואלד. That's awesome. You see, we're we're what's what's so beautiful about the era that we've moved that that we're living in is that it's not so crazy to speak about about like that these types of things because back in the day it was more like, you just have to figure it out how you were the the quintessential educator.
And now we're speaking in terms of like חינוך but in the framework of like all these things that are so essential for the נפש of every single child in the world. That's why the yeah. Could it be that if you don't have that that קשר נפשי and things are not great in the house and you tend to see that that they actually take it as a lesson, that's not how I'm going to live my life and I'm going to have my house like the opposite and show my children what I didn't get? Of course that it's possible. It's just harder.
But of course it's possible and half of us in this room are examples of it.
בטח. 100%. See if it wasn't possible, the מצב would be על הפנים would be be the end of the world meaning.
100%.
בטח. בטח, 100%. Yes.
I don't know if this is also on topic, but I'm just curious when when a, you know, at some point a child can have like this really bad relationship with their parent. And then they go through all this therapy, right? And then they get to this place of where they get, they did the best that they possibly could. Almost like this mutual understanding of like understanding their shoes, you know, like what would it be like to sit in their shoes? And so I was wondering, is that actually a real thing, like where you can actually think like almost excuse them in a way, even even your parents' relationship or whatever the parent is like to you and kind of screwed up the situation, you know? Just to chalk it up into they did the best that they possibly could. I mean, I know that's like I think that's possible, no? No, no, no, no, no.
Is this the realest thing? I don't know. I don't know if it's the listen, I don't know if it's the realest thing. I don't know what the most real thing is, but I definitely know that there are living examples of what you just said. If I understood you correctly.
Of accepting that due to whatever was, they gave it, this was the best shot given. And I have to do what I have to do to move to to move forward from it. 100%. Like they were they were exemplifying what they had going on from their parents.
My father's left hand was tied to a chair because he was lefty and his parents educated him. And what do you how do you educate someone? You write with your right hand. And that in that דור, by the way, it's I don't it's not like a נבך, I don't want you to have like, oh נבך. It's not a נבך story.
It's that was the world. At least the European world. There were a lot of examples like that. North American also.
Did they now, I want now, did did she do the best, my grandmother, do the best that she could? It's what she knew. Of course. 100%. My father's a very good example and a weird example because till today I don't understand anything about him.
I don't understand how he is who he is. You know my אבא, you know what I'm talking about. It just doesn't make sense. He didn't get, he didn't he didn't he didn't see any of this.
None of it. His parents were both married before with children, killed in front of them. Decided to choose life again, 1945 and start you know, because they were working with the נצח ישראל has to continue. continue, but my grandfather probably never smiled in my father's life, died when my father was 14.
My mother, grandmother had a horrible life in Argentina. And yet, so he's an he's an example, not how to do anything because it doesn't it doesn't add up. It just פשוט doesn't add up with my אבא. But is an example of accepting somehow that the kids see that parents did the best.
That comes at a later, it it's when you're younger it's very hard to you should have no expectation of a child to realize, don't you see we did our best? No, you can't. when you're on, only when you're in your own shoes and you you you see the world a little bit, you understand, you go outside of yourself and you realize, yeah, parents tried the best. But again, for this שיעור, it's not that it's off topic what you brought up. It's everything is on topic.
What we're trying to develop here is ideal, is an ideal, is just the the best way possible. Now, I I thought we were going to also be able to do the וידוי, but I just want to put the next question that's in front of you out there. Because look at the third line, and this what we'll continue next week בעזרת השם.
מדוע אם כן נראה כמובן מאליו שהקשר בין בני זוג חייב להיות דו צדדי, ובקשר עם ילדים, הדבר נראה רחוק יותר.
Why is it, and maybe it's less in our circles. Maybe this maybe this question is not so much for our circles, but I still think that it is. Why is it that it's totally acceptable and it makes perfect sense when you speak about relationships between a husband and wife, between a mother and father, that there must be constant, you know, the work of seeing each other, of meeting each other, of two ways, right? Of of of of coming, right? But when it comes to children, that's not so much the the conversation. That's not so much what we say when we talk about חינוך.
They'll say, I didn't choose this. What's that? They'll say, I didn't choose this. I mean, you chose your spouse. I was born into this.
That could be one of the answers. Not I did not send you an email saying, bring me down to this world. No, there's we're laughing subconsciously, there's this voice exists within many children. No one asked you guys to do this.
This was your בחירה with each other. I felt that meaning I came into the question meaning that there is reciprocity, meaning that relationships with children should be דו צדדי, and then he started off by saying that that's not true. But now he's asking the question why it's not true? I didn't hear. No, he's saying why would you think that it's...
Why are you why are you why are you thinking that it's not that that that that that it doesn't have to be two ways? Why would you think it? Why does most of the world think that it doesn't have to be two ways? So how is it supposed to be one way? No, it should be two ways, but why would you think that it's not? You do what I tell you. Or what I tell you, you do. Parents who are just authoritarian and they expect the kid to to respond and listen but they still love them. And we're learning a different שיטה where we're supposed to have a relationship with them and get to know them and meet them where they're at and...
Right. And he's saying, why is it still, why is it that it seems obvious when it comes to a relationship between a couple that you have to be like that with each other? When it comes to a child... See, what a חוצפה your daughter has. She doesn't see, she doesn't feel what you need right now? Isn't that just sensitive to what your need right now? She has a בעיה.
חס ושלום. I want, do you understand, do you understand what why he's bringing this question up? He's saying why is it still that in the eyes of the world, or maybe his world, it seems that we're still very far from understanding that a in order to establish a relationship, a parent needs to get to know the kid and the for the kid to also meet the parent, to develop a relationship where the kid also sees the parent. Because that's very new by the way. That that's...
It should be that way. Should. It should. It should.
It's why do you think it wouldn't be that way? It should be that way. Because you make... That that we're gonna... That that goes back to what זהבה brought up in the beginning.
That we'll see already בעזרת השם next week. Should be a week filled with good news בעזרת השם.