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The stories from the places where people gather.
Dana Kadwell (01:26)
And today we are joined by Irene from Irene and co events for our very, very first, am I the vendor asshole series? Welcome to the show, Irene. Yeah, I'm super excited. So first question always is, ⁓ why do we feel like Irene is going to be a great judge? Well, she is a seasoned wedding planner, designer, and an industry speaker with
Irene (01:38)
Thanks for having me.
Dana Kadwell (01:52)
over a decade of experience creating high end hands on wedding experiences. She is a founder of Irene and co events. She specializes in storytelling driven designs and brings couples visions to life. She is a TEDx speaker, not know that it's amazing and a wedding pro educator. She is passionate about fostering collaboration, elevating standards and sharing her expertise.
Irene (02:08)
you
Dana Kadwell (02:17)
Her work and her insights have been featured in top publications, including People Magazine, Carrots and Cake, The Knot, LA Times, and more. And when she is not knee deep in linens at an event, she is riding bikes with her twin daughters. Welcome to the show, Irene. So how old are your twin daughters?
Irene (02:33)
There'll be five this June.
Dana Kadwell (02:35)
Okay. Okay. So they probably have very strong opinions and feelings about lots of things. Yeah. I feel like moms of daughters are actually really good at judging things because I feel like they are judged so harshly by their daughters and the best way, right? Yeah.
Irene (02:39)
⁓ all the things.
In the best ways and the worst ways. mean, I
feel like we specially got these chicken nuggets yesterday and they're like, I want those. And of course they judged out the color, they're orange. So, okay, great. Let's throw those away. Fantastic. So yes, we get judged 24 seven for every little tiny thing.
Dana Kadwell (03:03)
Yeah.
That's exactly right. I have ⁓ a teenager, 16 year old. So, you know, it's ⁓ very much, it does. I mean, it's, it's a different kind of like, you have to learn how to like, have a little bit of a thicker skin and you have to learn that really they're telling you because they love you so dearly. But like, yeah, I get judged partially on what I wear, what my hair looks like, the earrings I like in the nicest way. She'll be like, mom, that looks so great for you. And I'm like, okay, what does that mean?
Irene (03:13)
How does it get better?
⁓ okay.
Well, I think, no, not. Maybe because I have two, I'll have double thick skin by the time they're that age, hopefully.
Dana Kadwell (03:37)
Not cool enough for the kids, I guess.
I
hope so. think you'll need it. Okay. So today I'm super excited. We are going to be talking about a topic that I think is on the top of so many people's minds, vendors, clients, and it is about wedding vendor tipping. So we came across this Reddit thread from a bride who just got married. Um, about six months ago was when they posted it. So I'm going to read the Reddit thread and we are going to chat about it. Okay.
So the topic is, wedding vendor tipping out of control? Hey y'all, I just got married and thinking about how to thank our vendors. I'm sure anyone who just got married knows the feeling of being exhausted and broke and stressed about this topic. We only had the basic vendors, photos, DJ, makeup artists, flowers, catering through our venue. All of our vendors are self-employed and own their own businesses except the employees of our venue.
I'm really struggling with the notion that I should be tipping my vendors 15 to 20 % of their total service costs. I brought up to a few friends, specifically the catering venue company, and they all agreed that I should tip the full 20 % and the venue should split the tip between all of their staff. I believe there was two bartenders, 15 kitchen and wait staff, and one day of coordinator present at our wedding. For context, our catering bar and venue was $30,000 and 20 % of that is $6,000.
That would be over a $330 tip per person. And the total is almost more money than I have in my personal bank account right now. Am I the only one who seems to think that this is excessive? Also for my makeup artist, she costs $2,800 for me and my eight bridesmaids. She was on the more expensive side, but did a great job. She was with us for about five and a half hours and I expected my bridesmaids to tip her as they got their service done, but no one did unfortunately.
I would like to thank her for her time and good work, but again, 20 % of our total cost is a whopping $560. It just again seems excessive. I also have vendors like my DJ who is self-employed and sets his own prices. We were quite unhappy with the service already. What should I even do for a tip for him? My friends say it's rude to not tip at all, but he didn't do a great job in my opinion, struggling to find what the right thing to do is.
Am I wrong for wanting to tip less or even consider not tipping self-employed vendors and doing a thank you card and small gift instead? I'm open to advice, but I just ask everyone to be kind. initial thoughts, what do think?
Irene (06:10)
There's a lot in there, my goodness. We need to piece this out. I don't think this is an initial thought one. ⁓
Dana Kadwell (06:11)
There's a lot in there. Yes. Okay, so what about the idea
of like, since you are self-employed, right? You are the owner of this. And I have heard this so many times. People say if you are the owner of the business, you should not get tipped.
Irene (06:28)
So as a business owner for past 11 years,
I'm never expecting to get tipped. That's never something that I factor into my costs, factor into how I pay my people, all the things. But there is a point of like my girls and my day of coordinators who are working their service hands. I mean, that's not an expectation, but that's very kind of them to be considerate. I think tipping has gotten a little bit out of control. I think I agree with her in some sense of this, but there is also some people who work in the service industry and the hospitality industry that do deserve to.
Dana Kadwell (06:34)
Mm-hmm.
Irene (07:01)
be tipped. Now I think just if you were at a restaurant or you went to a bar and you've got a drink you'd leave a couple bucks on the counter and that's a great tip for that person because of their wage and what they're currently being paid. I mean I try to if not always hire vendors that I know are paying their staff a livable wage as well as try to pay my staff a livable wage so we're never relying on tips or expecting to get tips ever. I actually love when I get a handwritten card I had a bride this past
April who wrote every single one of my team members a handwritten note very personalized to them and how they helped throughout the process and then on the day up. That meant more to me than any 20 bucks, 50 bucks, 100 bucks in an envelope that could ever have been because it's so much more personable and honestly it shows that you actually saw that we what we did for you and you valued what you paid for.
Dana Kadwell (07:44)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. if you look at some of the comments, like someone had actually said that they said that, you're not required to tip people in the wedding industry who own their own business and set their own prices. Period. The best thing you can do is give them a genuine review and take the time to post it in multiple places. Like for all my vendors, I copied my reviews and I posted them on Google maps, Zola, the knot wedding wire and across multiple Facebook groups.
I also included photos I showed off their work and I'm referring them like crazy to people I know and to people seeking recommendations on Facebook. That goes a long way because it drives more business. So true. So true.
Irene (08:25)
goes further than 200 bucks, my goodness! I'll take all the
reviews before I ever accept 200 bucks.
Dana Kadwell (08:32)
Yeah, I
totally agree. And I think it's just, and someone else said this, and I love this word plot that someone had. It was kind of in the beginning, and it has a lot of FUs in here, so just be aware of this. But it said, wedding planner slash forest here. I tell everyone that a tip is for service that is exemplary and over the top. If they come in and do their job, why are you tipping? Tipping is for people that go above and beyond the expectations. If nobody did that, why do they deserve extra?
We go above and beyond for almost every client and never expect a tip. Most wedding services are people with small businesses. We set the price. If we are expecting more, we should set the price higher. So don't tip unless you feel like you should and fuck them if they don't like it.
Irene (09:13)
You know what? Good for you and clap back on that because honestly like we're setting our prices like we know what our margins are we know what our profit and loss is like It should never be an expected thing. Is it very kind? Of course, it's very kind, but it's nothing anyone should ever be expecting I think it's getting a little out of control just like in general like we're going to coffee shops or we're going to like different places in the world and You did the work of like ordering and did all the things and then they're still like, but you still have to do a tips like why aren't you just paying a livable wage?
Dana Kadwell (09:15)
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah, sure.
Mm-hmm.
Irene (09:43)
I'm very confused. Like, can we
Dana Kadwell (09:44)
Yes. Yes.
Irene (09:45)
just... I worked here. I ordered the coffee on the little app thing. I'm confused. Should I get a percentage off? I'm not sure. But my...
Dana Kadwell (09:47)
I know, I
know. feel so similarly. It is so true. It's so frustrating. Like I remember we used to be able to take takeout and like part of the joy of takeout was like you didn't have to tip. You just like picked up your food and could eat it at home. Like no one's clearing my table. No one's filling my water. And they expect it and every single time it's like a 20 % tip on a takeout order.
Irene (09:59)
shooting.
I think this is why picking your vendors are super important because understanding who you are hiring will dictate how you might feel about tipping. Because if you hire a caterer that doesn't pay their staff a livable wage and maybe they were cheaper because of that, those kids who are just serving are going to definitely want to expect a tip of some sort. Versus if you went from a very licensed, insured caterer that may or may not have gratuity built in throughout, but you know that those people are earning a livable
a wage and working their butts off to give you a magical experience, then by all means you just went above and beyond, go for it. But I feel like that's where a lot of vendor research and partnering with your planners and your designers and your venue to make sure that everyone aligns with your ethics and values to avoid this back of mind, last minute thing. Lots of our brides always, and our grooms as well, always ask, can I have a tipping guide? And we have a very small template of here are some people you should, here's the-
Dana Kadwell (10:48)
Yep.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Irene (11:11)
estimate of like what's appropriate, a reminder none of this is ever required. You're not contractually obligated to do this but if you want to be kind that's up to you but don't feel like you have to.
Dana Kadwell (11:16)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm hmm. Yeah,
I so I totally agree with like what this person was saying, like tipping and I used to say it's all the time and I was a planner to clients. A tip is for someone who went above and beyond their service, went above and beyond your expectations. And for some people, a lot of that service is on the front end, right? So when I think about like a planner or maybe even a venue, like
A lot of that work is pre, before they even set foot on that property. Like it's the design, it's the back and forth, whatever. And then there's that final product of like, they delivered on this final product or whatever. But there's a lot of people that you can't decide whether there was, they deserve a tip until they actually execute their events. Like photographers, right? You haven't even gotten your product yet. So like, why are you tipping them necessarily on the day? Like maybe it's when you get your album or something, cause you're like, this was amazing. This was above and beyond what I expected.
from you, so on and so forth. Same thing with like a DJ and even hair and makeup artists or whatnot. ⁓ But again, like I do think it's one of those things where it's like, I don't even think there's a ⁓ distinction between if you are self-employed, if you are the owner or if you are working for that ⁓ business. Cause I think exactly to your point, hire vendors that pay their people well. And then it goes back to that same adage, like,
whether the owner is working it or whether an employee is working it, if they like killed it and they went above and beyond and they did more than what you contracted for and they delivered this amazing experience that left you feeling like on cloud nine, then give them a tip, right? Or give them a thank you card or something like that. But I definitely think the expectation of it is what makes it feel icky.
Irene (13:03)
I think the expectation is a little icky. mean, we bring it, we don't bring it up actually at all. We wait until the client brings it up. And if they're like, hey, I want to pass these out. I want to make sure these people get them. I do have like a procedure of like, great, you have to put them in envelopes, seal them with people's names on them. And I'm going to come talk to you at the end of the night. Hey, did you have a good experience? Do you want me to give this to them? And then go from there or give it back. Like whatever might have happened on that day. But it's not required for you to do it that day.
Dana Kadwell (13:19)
Yeah, I love that. Yeah. Yeah!
Yes.
Irene (13:33)
I feel like if you were moved by someone's service, especially someone that you hired personally, you have their contact information. Like you can always text them, my gosh, thank you so much. And if you're a good vendor, you're replying and probably going back to them first saying like, hey, we had a great idea, great experience. How was it for you? Can you leave me a review? Blah, blah, blah. And they can bring it up like, my God, we'd love to send you something. Like, please show me how. You don't need to add any more extra pressure on this day than already that there is. Like, please make it
Dana Kadwell (13:38)
Mm-hmm.
Yes. Yes.
No,
Irene (14:03)
us.
Dana Kadwell (14:04)
I totally agree. I remember one of my the best tips I ever got and it was such a nice tip and it was and I loved this client so much and we worked so well together. We did the event and she had handed out a couple of tips for other people, whatever. I didn't think anything of it because it was honestly it was a great experience. ⁓ I knew I delivered an exceptional like job or whatever, but the tip came almost a month later with like this really nice thank you note and she was just like, she's like, you know, we.
were just sitting here the other night and we were just like, this wedding just would have never happened. Like, and it was so perfect. It's everything we wanted. We saw the pictures, we saw the details that we didn't see that we know that you planned. And it was like this hindsight. They were so gracious and like grateful for it. They felt like that was the way that they could show their appreciation. And I loved that when I loved the note.
more than anything else, but like it was so nice to think about it from like, was so much more meaningful that it was a thoughtful like number that they thought of. It was a thoughtful note that it was a month later even because it made it feel like they were genuinely thankful. It wasn't just this obligatory, here's a check, sign my name because you know, someone told me to do it.
Irene (15:13)
Absolutely, and I feel like the pressure of that can get overwhelming. So I love that you got that month later. That's like almost a surprise and delight for yourself that we don't usually get like way after. That's so nice.
Dana Kadwell (15:19)
Yeah.
No.
I know, I remember
I was like, man, think I just, this is like, I'm buy some new wedding shoes with this, with this tip that were worn out, I know, right?
Irene (15:31)
I know, right? New heels. I've already broke the other ones, yes.
Dana Kadwell (15:39)
All right, guys, we all know, that Gen Z has fully entered the wedding market and they are not going anywhere. So here is the reality that we are facing today. Today's couples, they need instant gratification. They need information at their fingertips. They do not want to wait to get the information. They want something that is easy and they need consistent reminders. They are being bombarded by things all over the place.
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book a demo and to learn more, head to leadlockpro.com. And don't forget to tell them that I sent you.
Dana Kadwell (17:07)
okay, so I have a couple of thoughts here too. So with a venue, one, there was a couple people that were talking about like how that it should have been clearly outlined that there was this 20 % tip slash service fee. In your experience,
Irene (17:09)
Okay.
Dana Kadwell (17:23)
Is there a difference between a tip and a service fee?
Irene (17:28)
that's a great question. I think every business is structured a little bit differently. I don't think a service fee is a tip. I think if you're going to build it into a contract, one, it has to be stated upfront for budgeting purposes, and it should not be hidden by the word service fee. Like you should say it's gratuity for the staff appropriately if they're going to make it a requirement. Or if you go to resorts and such that are venues, they do have gratuities listed in there or service fees, usually cover the costs, the service fees specifically, cover the cost
Dana Kadwell (17:38)
Yes.
Mm-mm. Mm-mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Irene (17:57)
of the actual labor or administrative layer to be able to get the staff in. So don't hide behind it. If you're requiring it, then please be transparent. There is no need for this. I don't want to be, as a planner, budgeting and then be like, oh, by the way, there's 20 % more. It's like, that's not in my budget. That's not necessary.
Dana Kadwell (18:05)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
No,
it's a huge number. We're talking about that. This client specifically is a $30,000 bill and then a $6,000. That's huge. That is massive. It's unreal. Yeah, right. I know. I know. And so I love the, someone made a suggestion about that. ⁓ They said, your friends are insane and they think you should drop six grand in tips after already spending 30K. That's literally car money. So true. ⁓
Irene (18:22)
What? That's unreal. That's more than my mortgage this month. Absolutely not.
So
true.
Dana Kadwell (18:43)
The
flat rate approach makes way more sense, like maybe $100 to $200 for vendors who did well and nothing for the DJ who sucked. You already paid their full rate. I know, whoever you are, you're getting raked over the coals in this. You already paid their full rate. Tips should be going for above and beyond, not just showing up. Yes. So do you like the flat rate approach over the percentage approach?
Irene (18:52)
I'm so sorry Mr. DJ, whoever you were.
You really are.
Yeah.
I do, especially for like photo, video, content.
Dana Kadwell (19:11)
Mm-hmm.
Irene (19:12)
Those
Dana Kadwell (19:13)
Yep.
Irene (19:13)
kinds of people like a really nice. Thank you card and a flat rate like that's that's very appropriate I don't think you need to be excessive when it comes to tipping I don't think it's appropriate again. We set our own prices. We're all independent business owners It's not like you're hiring this giant company everything maybe you are or then that's a separate conversation of gratuities you need to have in your contract, but No, do the flat rate do what's easy and do what you feel is right Don't let anyone pressure you into what you have to do. I mean I feel like
Dana Kadwell (19:18)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Irene (19:42)
Again, when you're getting a coffee, do I have to leave a tip for putting my own order in the app and picking it up? Like, that's confusing. I did the work.
Dana Kadwell (19:50)
Don't you feel so shamed by
it? Did you just feel so shamed? I hate it. I know. Ugh.
Irene (19:52)
I hate tip shaming. It's the worst and now that like the screens like flip around I'm like, that's
now I feel like I have to only if I'm like my regular coffee shops that I specifically like will tip at because I'm there like five out of seven days a week I absolutely love because I know the people behind there. They're being so kind. They'll bring it to my table They're like super it's a cute cafe and that's like a service. I'm enjoying the atmosphere in the service But if you're just showing up to work, I mean
Dana Kadwell (20:04)
Yes. Fair. Yeah. Yes, yeah.
Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yeah.
Irene (20:22)
I get a tip today for showing up to work? I just showed up. Where's my tip? It doesn't make sense!
Dana Kadwell (20:24)
Yeah, no. Where's my tip? I know. That
is such a- I would love a tip for showing up to work. I would love a tip for doing my makeup. Like, please. Like, you got a great version of me.
Irene (20:32)
I showed up today. Yes, please.
Right? I deserve to be tipped today, apparently, because I showed up. So, co-sign that. Whoever's supposed to give that to me.
Dana Kadwell (20:41)
Yeah, that's right.
Who was that person?
Irene (20:48)
I don't know, we'll find out. But no. Oh, oh, they'll give me a few tips, for sure. How to have my hair, what shoes I should be wearing, how fast I should be driving, all of the things. Those are my tips for the day. But no, above and beyond, for sure.
Dana Kadwell (20:50)
Maybe it's the five-year-old twins. They'll give you a tip, yeah.
Yeah?
All the things, yeah. Mm hmm.
And I do want to dispel one myth. think someone had made a comment about how, ⁓ especially for catering staff, that tipping is necessary because they make the below minimum wage. And I want to be clear that banquet staff does not make the same as people who work in a restaurant, like restaurant staff.
is below minimum wage because they claim their tips and stuff like that. But as someone who hires staff, like I can't hire anybody to show up and execute at the bar for less than $30 an hour. Like they are making $30 an hour behind the bar, at a minimum. And some people who've been with me for a long time make $35 an hour because they're fantastic at their job. So, and I'm not saying you shouldn't tip, and I actually, this is the other question I had for you because I saw this a lot with planning is that,
people, felt a certain type of way about tip jars. Having tip jars out, they felt like it was kind of icky, like, you know, they're asking their guests to tip the bartenders. And there was this one venue that I used to work at often. And the rule was, if you didn't put out a tip jar, you were required to pay 20 % of your bar that went straight to that bartender or the bartenders who ever worked there. One, how do I know that you're actually paying your bartenders that, right? And two, like for me, like,
I love having a tip jar out because my bartenders work 10 times harder knowing that they are being rewarded instantaneously. And the reviews that we get over and over and over again are about our bar. It's about our bartenders and how amazing they are and how wonderful they are. So we'd love to hear your take on tip jars at a bar.
Irene (22:41)
Yeah, I think at a wedding it's really a toss up in the air and there is like some people who think like at an elevated experience like no We want to cover everything when we want to cover that cost You should then be willing to cover that tip cost appropriately if that's your feeling about it You can't have that feeling and then have a but at the end of that sentence, but I don't want to Pay them or I don't want to tip them. That's not appropriate This is again like where you pick your venue and where you pick your bartenders or your bar company There are companies that we work with specifically
Dana Kadwell (22:48)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Mm-hmm. All right.
Irene (23:11)
out in Utah that will ask in their process, are you okay with a tip jar or can we please do this? There's also one company that actually has an awesome sign on their bar and they're like, please don't leave tips, we actually pay our bartenders a livable wage so that we can serve you best. So it's like, again, promoting the idea that like, hi, we're real humans that treat us like a real human, not just like a wait staff by eliminating that tip kind of entirely. You get a lot more respect for it. ⁓
Dana Kadwell (23:26)
Mmm. Mmm, I love that.
Mm-hmm. Mm. I got...
Hmm.
Irene (23:41)
when they put that sign out. It's honestly my favorite thing and the couple or the family is more inclined to tip afterwards or an addition to afterwards based on consumption or whatever you've had because they were very honest and straightforward. I feel like everyone has very public values and ethics nowadays that you can't really hide behind anything anymore especially with Reddit and social media like there's no hiding. This DJ is like out there, you're done, you thought you hid, you did not, you're out there. So neither but neither can
Dana Kadwell (23:48)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Thanks
I know. Yeah.
Irene (24:11)
you as a company and like what your values are so I think approaching it upfront as a company and as a business owner is way better than ⁓ this is awkward maybe I should have it maybe I should like no own it own your shit and just take it or don't
Dana Kadwell (24:14)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yes. Yes, that's right. That's right.
Yeah. I really feel like this generation loves the like, loves to know what they're spending their money on and knowing that they're like supporting somebody in a way that it's a responsible and ethical business person who's paying their people well and whatnot. I love that idea. That's a good idea. Yeah. Yeah.
Irene (24:46)
100%. Yeah, shout out to Mecca. You're doing a great job.
Dana Kadwell (24:50)
Love to shout out.
Dana Kadwell (24:55)
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Dana Kadwell (25:33)
Okay, so would love to hear this from a planner perspective, because you are a planner, so you have your hand in so many different things, okay? So part of this is obviously we are going to judge whether this person is the asshole or not, but also ⁓ what can vendors do to help educate clients about tipping? So if you're somebody who, let's say, like here's this one response I heard, it said,
I saw an Instagram story from a planner I follow. It was her crying, I'm doing air quotes on the podcast here, as she hands out tips to other vendors and wasn't tipped. The caption was about how you should tip your planner too. Like be so for real girl, you set your own prices. just, vibes are so ick. So I think that there are people like this planner who believes very strongly that they should be tipped. And I actually have this story of a planner that I had that was in my collective and
Irene (26:13)
you
Dana Kadwell (26:32)
I was just assisting her as I normally did just to kind of like check in on clients or check out on my employees or whatever. And at the end of the night, she sat there with the mom and told the mom what to write in the checkbook for tips, including herself. And it gave me this most guttural, icky feeling that I've ever had. And I was like, my gosh, like this does not match like our like hospitality goals or anything like that. And I was just like, my gosh, but.
talking to this planner, she was like, well, they tip everyone else. Like, I should be tipped. Like, I don't own this company, so on and so forth. So it really made us then take a step back and like create like a tipping policy within the company and then how we talk to our clients about it or whatever. from a planner perspective, what is something that vendors can do to help educate clients about tipping?
Irene (27:22)
I think.
If you are a planner and you are managing those final details and such, we have a small final checklist of things. And there's a small tipping guide in there if they choose to. And it's very, very clear. This is not mandatory. I'd actually prefer if you did this on your own if you wanted to, don't need to do this now kind of thing. But I think as in general vendors, as we are approaching things, especially in more of the higher luxury markets here, this is not about that. Charge what you're worth.
Dana Kadwell (27:40)
Mm-hmm.
Irene (27:53)
you
Get paid and go do a great job if they want to do something otherwise fantastic But I don't I don't think the conversation of tipping like if they ask like you can just say like That's very kind of you. It's never expected. Thank you so much We're just happy to be here and we're honored to be part of your wedding like you you should not ever Ask or give advice of how to tip yourself That's like so biased and so unethical like I can't know the answer is no just go do a great job and
Dana Kadwell (28:18)
Yeah. Yeah. No.
Irene (28:24)
Please raise your prices if you feel like you should be paid more.
Dana Kadwell (28:27)
Yeah,
yeah. And from a, so this podcast is a lot to venues. So from a venue perspective, what is something that we should be doing if it's something where we have like a service fee? Should we be outlining what that service fee actually covers? Because I know in my experience, there's some venues that just use that service fee as extra revenue and it actually isn't covering anything, because it's not the tip. It's just something they know they can charge, they can squeeze out of clients.
So what is, how should we be approaching that, ⁓ that kind of service fee that I know a lot of people put on? No shame in that by the way, yeah. Yeah, that's right.
Irene (29:03)
Yeah, think transparent, you run your business how you need to. You go pay your rent. I understand.
But in terms of like what our clients and what couples want right now is full transparency and honesty. They're reading through things like no tomorrow. So if you put something in front of them, they're going to ask, what's that production fee for? What's that service fee for? You better have a good answer. Like, I hope you have a good answer.
Dana Kadwell (29:26)
Yeah, make it up if you have to, but it better be good answer.
Irene (29:31)
This is
now a workshop of how you explain service fees. Please take out a pen and a paper and write your top three things that this is paying for. Because it's true, if the venue costs $20,000 for the day, 10 to 10, you get 10 hours, 12 hours, whatever it is, and then you're putting additional service fees on top of that, that better be, oh, that's for the valet Oh, that's for the hostess. Oh, that's for the cleaning people to come before and after. Like, have something of what that's going for. As a business owner, you're running your books, you're responsible.
Dana Kadwell (29:35)
Yeah, that's right. That's right. Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Irene (30:02)
for paying your staff and being ethical about it in order to have more business and more partnerships. But you are going to be very hard pressed to find a couple in the next two weeks after listening to this that's not going to ask you what that is for. Because everyone, inflation is just making everyone crazy. I just paid like 70 bucks in gas. I have a small Subaru for mom and I should not be paying $70 in gas. But everything is more expensive. So of course people are going to ask more questions.
Dana Kadwell (30:02)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Irene (30:31)
Because
Dana Kadwell (30:31)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Irene (30:32)
this is their hard earned money and they've waited their entire lives, if not a couple years at least for this day. Some people want to know where every dollar is being spent. It's not until you get like maybe a little bit higher up in the more luxury market and even then they also want to know where every dollar is being spent and they also don't want to spend the dollar. So I think at every level at some capacity you need to be able to stand by what you're charging, why you're charging it and be transparent. You shouldn't
Dana Kadwell (30:37)
Mm-hmm.
They still want to know. Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah, and be real
Irene (31:01)
to hide. Yeah!
Dana Kadwell (31:01)
about it. Yeah, like I think there's so many of us that are doing really good things in the industry. Like we are paying our people really well. And sometimes you can say like, I pay for the health insurance of my staff or I pay a living wage for all part-time staff that steps foot on this property or I give 10 % of my profits every year back to this organization that I really care about.
I think there are things that we are doing as vendor in the industry, that we're really proud of, like what we stand behind and how we're operating our businesses, and that does come at a higher cost at times. what I have found is when I've been honest about that and said, hey, look, the reason why the price is this and the reason why we have, like we do have a service fee at one of our venues, but it covers...
all their bartenders, it covers their valet service, it covers their security, it covers the venue host, and all those people make a really good paycheck And so once you explain it, like, oh, that makes sense. And even the advantage is they're now comparing it to other venues that charge separately for the bartenders, the security, the valet, and are getting a service fee on top of it. And they're like, wow, like this is a better.
Irene (31:51)
Great.
Dana Kadwell (32:07)
quote unquote deal or I'm spending my money in a better way or whatnot. So yes, stand behind it, know it, be ready for the question. Even if it's like ice, it pays for ice, pays for ice machine. Ice machines are expensive and they're expensive. They're so expensive. Cleaning them, cleaning them is so expensive. It's the worst. Ugh, it's awful. And they're gross.
Irene (32:13)
Yeah.
They are expensive. And when they break and cleaning them, they're horrible. That's the worst. I hate cleaning an ice machine. It's disgusting. So gross.
So, so, so, so, so, so gross.
Dana Kadwell (32:31)
So we have to judge, do we believe that this client or this person was she the asshole in this situation by questioning all the tips?
Irene (32:39)
No, I don't think the bride's the asshole here. I think she's in the right mind, has all her facts straight, and girl, you do you. And I hope you had a great wedding. Mine is here, DJ. Maybe you can look over that. The photos don't have music on it. Enjoy them.
Dana Kadwell (32:40)
I say no. Yeah, I don't think so either.
Mm-hmm. That's right. Yeah. You guys mind if I you DJ? Yeah.
That's right, yes, yes.
Well,
thank you so much, Irene, for being here and being our very first Am I the Better Asshole?
it's been so much fun.
Irene (33:02)
Yeah, always. Thank you.