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Hosted by Masi Willis and Shannon Scott, Lead Like You Mean It is a leadership podcast for those who want more than inspiration—they want impact. We’ll help you lead from the inside out, with tools that stick and some truth that stretches you.
Shannon Scott (00:01.856)
All right, all right, all right. Welcome back to this episode of the Lead Like You Mean It podcast. We are grateful to be back with you for the third week in a row.
Masi Willis (00:13.248)
Yes, for sure. You just opened up like a little Matthew McConaughey. All right, all right, all right.
Shannon Scott (00:17.87)
All right.
should have Matthew McConaughey on the podcast that'd be good stuff.
Masi Willis (00:22.37)
wouldn't that well I mean it would be good stuff, but I am NOT a hook-em-horns girl at all so
Shannon Scott (00:30.135)
no, we wouldn't talk about Texas football. No, no, no.
Masi Willis (00:32.958)
Shannon Scott (00:34.67)
Well, until we have Matthew McConaughey on the podcast, we will make do with the two of us talking about something today that has been, wow, really influential in our lives and in our relationships as we process the things that we experience or conflict that occurs. And I think you would agree with this. I would say most conflict in our relationships is not about the
Masi Willis (00:56.194)
you
Shannon Scott (01:04.713)
character of the other person. It is about expectations, both theirs and mine. And so if we're having conflict, if I can step back from the emotion of it long enough, I realize, I have an unmet expectation here. I had an expectation, it wasn't met, it led to conflict. And so that leads us into talking today about the expectations scale. So I'd love for you to talk about this tool, because I think it'll be really helpful for people.
Masi Willis (01:06.977)
Nah.
Masi Willis (01:11.968)
Yeah.
Masi Willis (01:21.558)
Mm-hmm.
Shannon Scott (01:34.544)
in leadership and in relationships with one another.
Masi Willis (01:36.833)
Okay.
Yeah, you you and I talked about this on an earlier podcast and kind of started the year with, you know, my year mantra is make it matter. And, know, if leadership is going to matter, clarity has to matter. And gosh, I think it was in my twenties. I once had a friend say to me, know, Macy, can't have expectations in people that you've never stated what you need or desire from them. But also like
even stated expectations, people are going to often fail you in that. But that unspoken expectations really don't slow teams or friendships down. They quietly erode this trust because we all make all these assumptions and presumptions of people when we've really never stated clearly an expectation and what I actually say I want or desire and expect in
people, relationships, team members, organizations. So it's crucial. It's a crucial tool. All tools are really great at it. But I lived in a world where I had lots of expectations and friendships. It was like, if I do this, then of course they would do this. Well, it was an unmet expectation that I put on others that I really had to learn. You can't just have this hope in your head.
you have to clearly state what you need. So I think that's the big learning lesson and a great way to open up. What does that actually look like?
Shannon Scott (03:11.97)
Well, and so I think we just ask, okay listeners, the last time you felt frustrated or disappointed or resentful, my question to you would be, did you ever actually state what you expected? So the last time that you were like, I cannot believe they did that or I cannot believe they said that or I cannot believe they didn't do that or say that. Did you ever clearly communicate what you expected because most conflict comes
Masi Willis (03:35.435)
Uh-huh.
Shannon Scott (03:41.816)
from unmet or uncommunicated expectations. mean, Macy, we have figured this out and have asked each other, well, what was your expectation? So that's a real good way to clarify, I have this whole world in my head that I'm expecting everybody to live in the way I've scripted it and that nobody's following the script. Well, I never actually communicated that.
Masi Willis (03:51.362)
Mm-hmm.
Masi Willis (04:07.616)
Right. Well, and we also, we teach people how to kind of treat us. And so there's this assumption we make that we have this great intent to do something, but intent versus impact is completely different. And so I can, I can state what I need and assume that always that's going to be understood, but it's also really clear and really what's the word for it.
Essential for you to think about you need to restate your intentions. You need to restate your expectations You know because We all go back to the way we do life, right? So if you're a leader and you clearly have an expectation that this needs to be met on Friday Don't assume that every Friday everyone's still going to live underneath that expectation. We need to constantly clearly share and speak
exactly the expectations we have.
Shannon Scott (05:10.625)
We had a, and I both worked for a leader who always said, if you're not sick of talking about and stating the vision, you're not saying it enough. And that was basically his way of saying, there's no such thing as too many times coming back around the main thing. And so that was an expectation. That was clarity being brought. We're expecting that everything you do is related to this vision. And we're going to say this vision.
Masi Willis (05:34.06)
Thank
Shannon Scott (05:40.512)
and you're going to be sick of hearing it, but that means we are finally saying it enough that you're sick of hearing it. And this is true in marriage and parenting and friendships and church leadership and marketplace leadership and teams. Clarity is kindness, like we said last time, and communicating your expectations is vital because you can't hold someone accountable for something that you never made clear. So if you are
telling us, here's how you understand expectations, both the expectations you have on others and the ones they may have on you. And here's how you can assess where you are relationally in regard to expectations. Walk us through the tools so that we can understand what it looks like to apply the expectation scale in all of our relationships.
Masi Willis (06:25.271)
Mm-hmm.
Masi Willis (06:38.07)
Yeah, you know, when we think about expectation, there are different levels of expectation. That's why we call it a scale. So I'll paint the picture so that you get it visually inside your mind. Think about it as a horizontal line, left to right. Both edges on the far left and on the far right are red, kind of in between about a third of the way in on both sides is yellow and the dead center is green.
So our goal is to hit that center space where we have realistic expectations. And when we think about the scale and we think about it from middle to the right side of this horizontal line, from realistic, we go up into yellow and they're kind of unrealistic and far right, they're impossible. If you go the opposite direction on the left-hand side of the scale from realistic, you become limited.
which is yellow, and then from there we get resigned. Either direction is not great. And in that impossible, unrealistic, that's no human could reasonably meet this expectation. know, often fueled by fear or control or an ego, we set these impossible expectations. I even think about, it's accidental too, when we're interviewing people at companies.
We have this impossible expectation that this person we just interviewed is going to come in doing every single thing perfectly the way they promised us they could and they're winning us over. Yeah.
Shannon Scott (08:14.517)
And then we're shocked. And then we're shocked when they can't.
Masi Willis (08:18.69)
And we're like, well, they're not great at their job. They've been here 30 days. They can't do what they said they could. And you're like, let's fire them and turn them over. And that person costs you half their salary to turn them over and hire someone else. But if we really turn the scale on ourselves and thought, OK, was that a realistic expectation? No, it was actually.
Impossible. You're expecting perfection. You're expecting speed without any kind of resource of developing them. And we've got a developing others tool that can stack on top of this to help or the outcomes like you want outcomes and they don't even have any authority to do that. And so really turn. It's always about the mirror. Right. So the expectation scale is a mirror on yourself to go. OK, wait, is this impossible? Is this unrealistic? Is it realistic?
Right. And in the realistic expectation area, you're clear. You have it's achievable. There's specific goals that people can reach. You thought about the fact that we realistically have developed them in the knowledge and equipped them with all that they need to excel in their spaces. You're challenging. It might be challenging, but it's still possible. You're also adding that calibrated support and it it
requires you to check and make sure are you clear and realistic with my expectations? Okay, respond to me that you did in agreement so that we know we're moving towards a same direction. So we talked about the far right, that impossible, unrealistic, and then what's real? I'll take this personally. You know, is a unrealistic or an impossible expectation in a family
that has children who are now grown and married and now they're splitting holidays with everybody. It's impossible or unrealistic to expect that the way of your traditions will always remain the same, right? So there's no reason to constantly in your mind be disappointed over an impossible expectation that...
Masi Willis (10:27.38)
my niece and her husband who live in Rhode Island, my nephew and his wife who live in Savannah, that they could come to our side of the family and do the entire holidays the way we think or wish they were. So realistically, we discuss holidays to make sure we're all in agreement, we all know what we're doing, and we understand that the value of family extends when everybody gets married. Things shift. It doesn't mean it's less important.
This means we have to sit realistically. Life is different than when they were two and three years old.
Shannon Scott (11:01.504)
That's so good. And I would say from a personal standpoint for me, understanding the voices as in the five voices of everyone in my family has helped me inform this expectation scale so much more tailored to how they are innately wired. So I was having expectations of my husband that he would have guardian like tendencies that come easily
to me I make my list I check my list off everything I need to do goes on the list I then work the list that's not how he is wired as a creative first voice so I would be like why can't he get this done and I'm constantly disappointed that he's not following a list that's not how he's wired and so it has been really freeing for us in our relationship for me to understand okay how does he need to be communicated
with and now I don't have all these unrealistic and judgy frankly expectations of a standard he's unable to meet. And it probably goes the other direction if we got him on the podcast he'd probably be like and here's all the ways I was unrealistic but it's been freeing to be able to layer this tool on top of the five voices and understand then what a realistic expectation looks like for each of the different voice types.
Masi Willis (12:07.106)
Mm-hmm.
Masi Willis (12:17.622)
Mm-hmm.
Shannon Scott (12:31.214)
.
Masi Willis (12:31.254)
Yeah, we had a conflict in a company I work with over the whole entire month of December. And exactly the language you're using right now, we had a connector working alongside of a guardian. And those two voices are nemesis voices to one another, right? And the guardian very clearly understood the work she was doing, she's look at the details, evaluate the accounts, make sure everything's done appropriately.
check the list off, done, done, done, task related, move forward. But then we had hired this person to help fill in and we had this expectation that she could just pick up this person's work while she was out of the office on maternity leave. And yes, we didn't need to get resigned, which will go to that side of the expectation scale, but we kind of had an impossible thought.
that what had never been transferred inside of the company for over 40 years, someone retired and transferred to this guardian. This guardian picked it up six months doing amazing work, but then to transfer it over in 30 days to someone who is wired as a connector, who we are terrible at details. is our, it is our nemesis voice. It doesn't mean we can't do them, but we'll die if we continue to do them. And so,
really setting that pace. A, release pressure from the guardian to go, hey, this is impossible. I mean, this is an extreme impossibility. You're going to constantly beat your head against a wall. Also, with the connector to go, hey, it's unrealistic, so own that this isn't the best work. This isn't the work that you thrive in, but that you're trying your hardest to get to that.
So what would be really bad in the organization or in your family where there's situation with Jeff, let's talk about the left side of the scale. You ready? So that left side, no, exactly. This left side goes from realistic to yellow, which is you have limited expectations to the far, far left side of resigned. And that resignation,
Shannon Scott (14:31.348)
Yeah this is this is not fun.
Masi Willis (14:48.754)
brings your level of excellence down to mediocre at its best, right? So that limited, you've adjusted your expectations based on the reality. You're like, okay, well, she's just not gonna get it, so we're gonna have errors. Or there's constraints or a capacity issue. maybe it's limited based on the season they're in and their life. Maybe there's something in their upstream.
healthy when intentional and it's unhealthy when silent, right? Are we limited here? Like are we are we expecting less from this person? And then finally that resigned is, well, they're never going to change. Like, we're just going to disengage like whatever Jeff's never going to be able to do details. So I just have no expectation. I'm resigned from the fact that he'll ever be able to get our bills paid on time or emotionally you shut down.
Or we get to the place where, you know, the most dangerous place for people, for leaders to live is in this resignation area. In that same scenario of what I just shared with y'all with that client, there's another guardian voice inside that organization that the executive team got used to his way of being a guardian. And so he might show up with lots of interrogative questions because he's present minded. He doesn't like risk and someone who's.
Risky without any kind of intellect around it seems careless So then he walks into a space where there's a nurture doing work and he comes in going hey So why did you do this with the accounts and why did you do that with the accounts and what what was your purpose in your reasoning? And that nurture just starts shutting down So when we cross the conflict and I sat down with them to coach and I was like hey to the Guardian You know what's going on? He's like well, you know
Everyone knows how to work with me. So they get me and they understand that I was like, no, that's a, you're resigned. You have resigned yourself to the accidental version of the guardian. And as a guardian, it's not about or any voice showing up going, well, that's just who I am. You know, I'm just a, let's just call it this. I'm just a two on an enneagram. you'll just have to understand I'm blistery cause I'm an aid or I'm a pioneer. So
Masi Willis (17:09.226)
That's just how I show up. Like I have that. We're resigned that you can't be the best version of yourself for the person on the other side of you. And like I always say, it is not the golden rule. It is not do unto others as you want done to yourself. It is the platinum rule. Do unto others as they would want done to them. So it really matters because leadership stops mattering when expectations go unspoken or unexamined. And then we just become a less version.
less producing, our high performance goes to mediocrity, performance goes to low performance. So it's crucial to make sure you understand both extremes of the expectation scale will actually set for how do I need to communicate and make sure it's all clear, where are we on this scale?
Shannon Scott (18:03.327)
Yeah, and at the end of the day, this isn't a one person's sole responsibility type of tool. As with anything, the most healthy version of this is going to be when there is shared responsibility of two people coming at this going, all right, let me assess where I've been and why, and let's assess where you've been and why, and now rather than me blaming you or you blaming me, we're gonna take a shared responsibility for this.
Masi Willis (18:31.894)
Mm-hmm.
Shannon Scott (18:33.261)
So let's talk, obviously this is a leadership podcast, so let's talk specifically about leadership. Tell us about the leader's responsibility in an expectation scale for those who are leading people who are listening, but then also, follower is a bad term, but as a team member following a leader, what is our responsibility on the expectation scale?
Masi Willis (18:56.576)
Yeah, it's, you know, it will as think about leadership. Oftentimes we have dictator leaders, right? Real dominant. Well, all you're going to get from your team members, if that is your way of driving work is compliance and compliance in itself is resigned. They're like people who are just obeying what you bark out. There is absolutely no place for growth, expansion, and really the diversity of different voices.
So the leader's responsibility is to communicate their expectations clearly and invite dialogue. Because if you do not invite dialogue, you're going to fall into that world of compliance. And so that leader needs to be asking, is this realistic? Is this clear? If it's not realistic, help me understand why. Because we've all worked for the leader that's actually never done what I do. Right?
Shannon Scott (19:52.452)
So good. Yeah, you have never done the work, but you're telling me how to do work you don't know how to do.
Masi Willis (19:59.552)
Right. And the key indicator here for me that triggers me as when leaders say, well, you just need to do such and such and so and so. Well, you use the word just to diminish what you think it takes to get done. You don't understand that two weeks out from a major event, you just change the entire content or you change the entire approach. Well, you can just get that done, get you some people that can just go do such and such. No, why don't you ride that bike for a while and you tell me what it feels like.
to actually have two weeks that you've worked 11 months on something with. So that is where you're gonna get the compliant people. And if you lead that way and you don't think about inviting dialogue, saying, help me understand where this request falls on the expectation scale, because if it's unrealistic, then I want us to put framework in place of how can we get clear.
Now on the other side of that, person receiving that direction, whether it's a child, a spouse, you know, the team member that's working for this leader, a board member that's part of a board, you've got to engage honestly. You've got to clarify the confusion and really own execution if expectations are clear and reasonable. Like if they're reasonable, go, yeah, this is realistic. I can get that done by Friday or
I understand you've asked for this to be done by Friday. However, here are some things that are occurring this week that I don't think you might be privy to or we have not communicated are happening. So all day on Thursday, I have a training outside the office. All day on Wednesday, I need to make sure budgets are met because payrolls do. So to get this project here Tuesday afternoon done by Friday afternoon, that's not a realistic goal.
For us, more realistic would be bring a solution. So the other thing on the team member side is don't come with why it doesn't work. Come with clarity and communication around why it might not be reasonable and then give a solution so that it is a partnership of reaching goals. It's not a, stated it and I can't do it. Good luck, find another way.
Shannon Scott (22:20.926)
Yeah, I mean, again, everything rises and falls on communication. When we're not talking, we can't get anywhere. And so the expectation scale has a communication that is the hinge to all of this. Mase, I'd love for you to just like give us an example. Like sometimes I think people get on and listen to leadership podcasts and maybe could feel discouraged because they're like, how do these people have it all together? Or how does that leader have everything going for them and never makes
Masi Willis (22:27.298)
Mm-hmm.
Shannon Scott (22:50.88)
any mistake. So because we want to be people who are real, and we're not just up here going make it matter because we don't have any issues. Like give us an example maybe so we can read your mail a little bit like vulnerably give us what this looks like for you because you're a connector creative pioneer. And so you're a very specific voice type. What does the expectation scale look like for you? You could talk about it in leadership or relationship, whatever, whatever comes to mind.
Masi Willis (23:03.276)
Yeah.
Masi Willis (23:19.754)
Yeah, the things I've been learning about my voice, because listen, you're right. I want everyone here listening to me to know I use these tools on myself every single week. And what I have been working on for five years since I got almost five and a half years since I really had language around this, I still have the same tendencies in my natural voice that come up every single week.
And so I'm not void of become, we're never gonna become these perfect people on this side of heaven. We're going to keep working at this so that our reactions or our actions present a better option than what I would have five and a half years ago. So for me as a Connected Recruit Pioneer, all three of those voices are future voices. My blind spot as a nurturer,
is a present voice and the guardian as my nemesis is a present voice. They represent 73 % of population. So all three of my first voices are constantly in the future working my way back to the present. So I like to share with people think about when you're playing card games. Are you one of those people that's a new card game?
You pull out the card and you're like, okay, I'm gonna read the directions and it's step by step by step by step directions. You just need to be told in the present what needs to be done to win. I look at it and go, okay, wait, I can't even follow these directions. Just tell me how we're supposed to win the game. Like are we doing shoots and ladders? Are we trying to get the colors? Are we grabbing candy? Like what are we doing? Tell me at the end. Well, eventually we're all gonna be.
around the path and have used these different things to reach our end goal. Okay, great, I understand that. Now explain to me how I get there. So you see how completely different I process information.
Shannon Scott (25:09.0)
Yeah, and you and I are totally opposite in this. My first two voices are present. Your first three are future. So it's just, it's not two opposing ways in that one is right and one is wrong. It is two entirely different approaches to get to the same location.
Masi Willis (25:12.268)
Totally.
Masi Willis (25:24.098)
Correct.
Masi Willis (25:29.792)
Right, so I'll use you and I and a friend Ryan, we're all doing some work together right now on a client and both of you are present voices and so in my eloquent communication, in my connect or create, I'm like, you know what would be great and I can see that we're gonna do this, this and this and you guys take it from there and we'll be good to go. And Ryan's like,
I need a few more pillars of like, what exactly are you expecting from us, right? So I think, oh, well, everyone would think like me, but if I don't set realistic steps of where we're getting, I've set you guys up to be impossible in this expectation scale because you can't see the 10 things I see in the future, but never really stated to you. So y'all bringing that clarity.
you can always hit that realistic goal. If you all said, in Macy's style, she's just thrown some cloudy great thing, but let's just figure it out ourselves and hope the best from her when you're not shaping me either. So that's kind of an example I give you from a business perspective. Being on the other side of me, do you experience that?
Shannon Scott (26:48.937)
Oh yeah, I mean, I for you, there's a danger of assuming others can see what's in your head. For me, the danger is assuming you know all the steps that it takes to get there and you're just disregarding them. So I can very easily be like, I don't feel this with you. And I think that part of it is our, you know, so many decades of relational equity. I know you're not intentionally disregarding tasks or
Masi Willis (26:56.663)
Mm-hmm.
Masi Willis (27:04.0)
Right.
Masi Willis (27:13.451)
Right.
Shannon Scott (27:18.891)
you just don't know that's a task or step. And you know I'm not trying to be like I don't care what's in your head, I only care about this checklist. So we are in a great place, but when I think about my voice and your voice in a leader and a subordinate who don't have relational equity, that is a recipe for frustration on both sides more often than it isn't. Because one person is assuming they know
what's in our head the other person is assuming they know what it takes to get there and just don't care so I think the hard question for both sides to ask is okay if they didn't meet my expectation did I ever actually name it or is this on me because I didn't communicate it because I wanted to keep the peace or not overstep or stay in my lane well wouldn't you rather have clear communication that and take a risk that you
Masi Willis (28:04.748)
Yeah.
Shannon Scott (28:18.667)
you swerve out of your lane, then to get to the other side of it, realize you didn't make the mark and now your job's in jeopardy or your leadership is in jeopardy. So yeah, I experience it from you, but not, I think our relational equity in our communication keeps it from being something that wounds us or sets us back when we're trying to get something over the line.
Masi Willis (28:40.438)
Yeah. Recently, you really use this without having to say this tool. And that's something else I want everybody to know. This is a framework, right? We don't have to name the exact tool from Home Depot, the brand, and what it does. We can say, we need an electric screwdriver. We know what that means. Same thing here. You and I were sitting out on your porch talking about 2026. And, you know, in this moment, I'm like,
I am just, I'm never gonna get this social media thing done. I'm just, it's overwhelming, it's a lot of work, it's too hard to think through. And so I had actually resigned your capability and your team's capability because it was so overwhelming to me. I'm like, this is just never gonna happen. And you had to come back around and go, hey girl, without saying you've resigned this, you said, you know what?
What feels impossible to you, I want you to know is not impossible to us. So you're on one side, we're on the other. Let's all get in the middle and know as long as we have these things from you, we can set this up and it's easy for us what may be really a heavy lift for you. And it's because of those two last voices of mine, nurture and guardian, it is so overwhelming for me to see a structure put in place. It's why I, when I was producing events, I hired
so many people that had your gifting because I could lead a big vision. I needed really strong people that were different than me in those positions. I didn't have the language to know that's what I was doing 15 years ago, but I do think it's why I was successful at growing teams who could implement and execute with excellence because what we don't ever want to do is pressure and force it to produce burnout. really
want to strive towards excellence. So if you want results that matter, we don't use fear or resignation. We really have to use that clarity to what we're expecting, which in you and in our conversation, I stated a feeling and you clarified and said, nope, here's the clear direction. So we use this expectation scale without actually having to state the scale.
Shannon Scott (30:57.865)
Yeah, that's good. Yeah, I didn't get out a napkin and draw a diagram. It's just we had a shared language and so we could get there quickly. So I would love for listeners to have handles for this. That they can use the expectation scale again without saying, honey, I'm using a tool that I learned on you, you know, or team member. I have a new tool, but just walk some people through some questions
Masi Willis (31:19.554)
Yeah.
Shannon Scott (31:27.859)
that they can use as reflection questions for themselves, especially if they're thinking of a specific expectation right now that is unmet. I think this might be helpful for people to apply it.
Masi Willis (31:40.662)
Yeah, you know, a simple question you can say is what expectations am I currently holding? Like in your mind, if there's conflict, you're like, why hasn't this person normally that why question is probably an indicator that there is a there is no clarity on the expectation. So what expectations am I currently holding? Where do they fall on this scale? Like I expect my I'm not married, but I expect my husband to want to go out on a date with me.
on Friday night because he knows I need quality time. Okay, well if he's a logical thinker and he's practical and it's an impersonal truth-based decision for him, he might not be thinking about Friday night. He might be sitting there going, well we've got these things and these things and these things. So the impossible is to expect that husband to read your mind and hope the way you do. So just state clarity, hey, Friday night, I'd like us to have quality time date night. I'll take care of getting the kids.
you take care of the place to eat, right? Then we have that set. Where does that fall? Have I clearly communicated it? And maybe have I invited feedback on whether that's realistic? And those are questions that will help you get to a place of, does my team member actually understand what I'm asking them to do? And have I communicated my expectations clearly? Ask that.
And then the team member or the parent or the child needs to say, no, you've kind of left it to an ambiguous decision. And I'm not real sure where I'm going to fall on this. So I need you to be clearer so that I can win. Right.
Shannon Scott (33:24.156)
Yeah, that's so good. And I mean, again, all of this is coming back to, think we said clarity is kindness. And when we think about making it matter, leadership that matters is clear and it is kind and it's courageous in stating expectations and then giving people an opportunity to meet them. just clarity liberates people and it helps them win. I am able to win when
I know the expectation that is on me. And if it's an unclear expectation, then I'm flailing a little bit. And if it's a completely unrealistic expectation, I'm not sure that I should speak up and say it's unrealistic. I would say, and tell me if you agree or disagree on this, it is really incumbent upon the leader because they're the one with the power to do the heavy lifting on this and to create a safe place.
Masi Willis (34:13.728)
Okay.
Shannon Scott (34:24.036)
for someone who reports to them to feedback on whether an expectation is realistic or not and to feedback on whether they feel they have clarity or whether they're confused about what the leader expects. It is a lot to ask of a follower to engage the leader if the leader hasn't created a safe enough space for feedback.
Masi Willis (34:36.044)
Yeah.
Masi Willis (34:47.33)
Right. I love that you're making this point. Psychological safety is everything for a leader to know and create. That leader who drives with dominance and fear and manipulation, who's creating impossible goals only to go, I knew you couldn't hit it, but at least you get further than you thought you could. You know, if the goal is, you know, a $10,000 a month sales,
of whatever you're doing and a normal month is 5,000 and you want someone to double it only driving with fear and manipulation for them to try to get to 7,500 and still feel like they failed and fell below the bar. And then you're passive aggressively on the other side going, Oh, I knew you couldn't make it, but I wanted to set it up there to make sure you just didn't hit 5,000 worst leader ever to work for. Right. And work that is not psychological safety. That's that is abuse.
and manipulation and that leader, not great. Now on the other side of that, that where do we fall on the expectation is I think about kids or sports, you know, that runner who's like got a great athletic lettered running, you know, on the track team. But when there's no one running next to them to force their pace higher.
they become resigned, right? And so there is the balance of going, let's add some challenge in so that we have this realistic opportunity to make ourselves better, but let's also don't undermine it to the place where as a leader, we're not challenging for greatness or for excellence. Like, okay, status quo is status quo. That's the opposite. That is an abdicating leader and that
It's tough too because if you're an achiever and you're me, your future thinking, and you're like, wow, everybody can just hit 2,500, we're never going to grow to 7,500. Why would I keep working at that pace? I would become limited and then I would become resigned. And we're not the best versions or the most excellent way that we can get there. That limiting expectations isn't lowering the bar, it's aligning the bar.
Masi Willis (37:06.73)
Right? It's getting the bar in that center in a place where we are the best version of our organization. Our families are what we're trying to accomplish, especially as leaders.
Shannon Scott (37:17.852)
Yeah, mean, unspoken expectations are premeditated disappointments. We are basically just saying, I'm not going to communicate this and I'm going to get exactly what I assume I'm going to get and that'll be disappointing. So leaders raise the bar for yourself, communicate your expectations clearly and you will probably be amazed at how your people that work for you will flourish given the freedom to spread their wings and to hit
Masi Willis (37:22.87)
Yes!
Masi Willis (37:35.319)
Yes.
Shannon Scott (37:47.786)
an expectation that you've clearly communicated. this, oh, go ahead.
Masi Willis (37:52.192)
Yeah, well, sorry, you and I say this a lot in the world we live in is, you know, we want to be liberators. We want to create liberation. And that isn't all support, giving everybody everything they want, whenever they want it, however they want it, or accepting any goal you reach, you win. You know, it's also not that dominating fear challenge like dictatorship. It's the calibration of that. isn't
Shannon and Macy get this type support from me because I'm this kind of leader. It's what kind of support does Shannon need from me? What specific challenge? And it may be different for Macy because I might need more support because I'm already challenging myself in the head. You might want more challenge because you've already got all the lists taken care of, but you need someone to say, Shannon, I actually believe you for more than this. So
Remember as leaders with this scale, we're always thriving for liberation. It is a calibrated support that isn't extra hands. That's not administrative support is what else do you need for me to reach this goal? And then the calibrated challenge, hey, Macy, you're living in mediocrity. I actually have seen you do this more often. I want to challenge you to rise up to do this differently.
I want you to go for that high bar and whatever you need to get there, support, let me know because we'll try to figure out what that is. So that's a crucial thing to think about too is that liberation world brings clarity and hope.
Shannon Scott (39:35.629)
So good. All right. So your challenge this week, choose one relationship in your life. That could be in your work life, in your personal life, in your life with your friends socially, whatever the case may be, choose one relationship this week and name an expectation that you have been carrying, but you've been carrying it silently, which is not fair to you and it's not fair to them. And then your challenge is to communicate that expectation clearly and
Masi Willis (39:39.717)
Yep.
Masi Willis (40:00.45)
Mm-mm.
Shannon Scott (40:05.543)
invite dialogue with that other person and just see what happens. Use it as an experiment and see what can happen when you choose clarity over confusion and you communicate your expectations clearly and then invite the other person to engage with you in that way.
Masi Willis (40:24.16)
Yeah, you know alignment is crucial. That's how we get places. That's how our cars, we have to align our wheels for a reason so they don't get off balance. And when our expectations are clear, that alignment grows. And that's when leadership actually starts to matter and we see results. Yeah.
Shannon Scott (40:43.835)
That's a good way to end it, Mace. All right, everybody, go out this week, make it matter, and lead like you mean it. And we'll see you next week.
Masi Willis (40:51.884)
See you next week.