OurCalling - Our podcast about homelessness

In this episode, Pastor Wayne Walker, CEO of OurCalling, interviews Carolyn Walker(wife and co-founder) as they delve into the compelling story behind founding OurCalling, a mission borne out of a clear directive from God to serve the homeless in Dallas. Together, they discuss the initial gaps in spiritual care outside of shelters and how personal experiences with trauma and homelessness fuelled their commitment. They highlight the challenges and adjustments faced while transitioning from planned international missions to focusing entirely on local needs, evolving their services beyond mere food provision to address deeper issues of autonomy and identity. Through reflective narratives and personal anecdotes, the Walkers emphasize the importance of dignity, autonomy, and the balancing act between their intense professional commitments and maintaining a healthy personal life.

https://www.ourcalling.org/

- **Carolyn Walker Introduction** (Time 01:15): Carolyn shares her background, mentioning she’s from Arlington, Texas, the youngest of 7 kids, and has worked in Dallas for most of her marriage.
- **Purpose of Our Calling** (Time 02:55): Carolyn explains that founding Our Calling felt like the only option – a clear direction from God for their lives.
- **Filling a Void** (Time 03:14): Initially, there was a significant void in spiritual care for the homeless outside of shelters, which led to the creation of Our Calling.
- **Background and Motivation** (Time 05:09): Both Wayne and Carolyn had early experiences with trauma, homelessness, and witnessing the needs of others, which motivated their current mission.
- **Shift from Planned Careers to Founding Our Calling** (Time 09:13): The couple originally planned to serve abroad, but meeting needs in Dallas redirected their path, confirmed by advice from a mission agency.
- **Challenges and Adjustments** (Time 14:56): Living full-time serving the homeless community in Dallas presented challenges, including ignorance from others about the homelessness situation in the city.
- **Incorporating Our Calling (2009) and Full Time Service (2010)** (Time 24:15): The couple describes how they established Our Calling officially and moved into missionary work in Dallas full-time, highlighting some obstacles, such as city regulations against food services and extensive relief efforts during Hurricane Katrina.
- **Expanding Services and Understanding Needs** (Time 30:55): Starting with a small facility, they realized the broad and intensive needs of the homeless, which wasn't just about providing food but also addressing deeper issues of autonomy and identity.
- **Personal Reflections and Learning Through Service** (Time 31:19): Carolyn recalls her learning experiences through direct interactions, particularly with a woman named Yvonne who taught her about resilience and hope amidst suffering.
- **Maintaining Focus and Expanding Impact** (Time 35:49): The approach to homeless ministry evolves, focusing on respecting the autonomy of those served, emphasizing that personal choices are paramount, and advocating for engaging human dignity at each step.
- **Balancing Professional and Personal Life** (Time 38:52): Carolyn and Wayne underline the complexities and rewards of working together in such intense ministry settings while maintaining their marriage and personal lives.
- **Lessons and Future Directions** (Time 39:14): Concluding, they mention the upcoming episode will continue discussing the operational aspects and impacts of Our Calling.


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Creators & Guests

Host
Wayne Walker
CEO and Pastor Wayne Walker serves as the CEO and Pastor to the homeless at OurCalling. In 2001, Wayne, along with his wife Carolyn, started serving the homeless community in Dallas. They founded OurCalling in 2009. During his youth, Wayne’s family actively pursued the scriptural commandment to “love your neighbor as yourself” by modeling the life of Jesus to scores of foster children whose own origins represented generations of human brokenness, dysfunction, sexual exploitation, and abuse. Early exposure to these destructive forces set him on a path to recognize the long-term effects of trauma, which often lead to homelessness. While completing his Master’s Degree in Cross-Cultural Ministry from Dallas Theological Seminary, Wayne befriended and ministered to men and women in the homeless community. During that time he began to establish personal, discipleship-oriented relationships with homeless individuals, many in the same urban setting where he and his family continue to work today.
Editor
Orange and Teal Productions
caroline@orangeandteal.org
Designer
Sarah Katherine

What is OurCalling - Our podcast about homelessness?

A Podcast by OurCalling—the goal is to be a learner. What can we learn about serving those experiencing homelessness? Even though we have years of experience, can we step back, take a fresh look, and rethink everything we know? OurCalling is a Christian nonprofit (501 c3) serving the homeless community throughout Dallas County in Texas. Our team helps people get to know Jesus and get off the streets every day. Last year, we helped individuals exit homelessness over 1,300 times. We have a facility in downtown Dallas, and our street outreach teams visit over 4,000 locations throughout the county. We serve about 10,000 individuals experiencing homelessness each year. We partner with the most amazing organizations and recognize that we are stronger when we work together.

Wayne:

Welcome to our podcast. I'm Pastor Wayne with Our Calling. And, today, we're gonna talk about the history of Our Calling, how we got started, Carolyn, my wife and I, how we got into this funjoy journey many years ago. Who is our calling? What does our calling do to help the homeless?

Wayne:

The nonprofit. We care with dignity. Our calling Can't help but think about the definition of Christian

Carolyn:

We connect with intentionality.

Wayne:

Called our calling To our calling

Carolyn:

We build community with integrity.

Wayne:

This is our calling and our podcast, a word on the streets about homelessness. Hi. Hi. Welcome. Today, we are talking to

Carolyn:

Carolyn Walker.

Wayne:

So, today, we wanna talk about some of the history of our calling. This is our 15th anniversary. So we wanna talk about some of the how we got started, where we came from, what we're doing today. And in another episode, we'll talk about specifically what our calling is doing now, but we wanna start off by talking about, where we came from. So, personally, Carolyn, introduce yourself and then I'll do the same.

Carolyn:

Sure. Carolyn Walker and born and raised in Arlington, Texas and the youngest of 7 kids and been married to you for almost 26 years. And working in this space that we're in, in Dallas for most of our marriage.

Wayne:

Been married for 26 years.

Carolyn:

Yeah.

Wayne:

I grew up in East Texas. I was born in Houston, but grew up in East Texas, south of Tyler in Jacksonville. And, yeah, we moved to Dallas in 2000. Mhmm. So we met on the college campus of SFA, through Campus Crusade, and I was leading worship.

Wayne:

And Carolyn came in as a transfer student. And after the worship, the meeting, you know, crusade stuff, someone walked up and said, hey, this is Carolyn. She wants to be in the band. And I said, I don't know when band practice is going to be. So if you give me your number, I'll call you.

Carolyn:

It's very smooth. Yeah. It's really smooth. I had no clue that that was

Wayne:

Yeah.

Carolyn:

You had ulterior motives or

Wayne:

not. Ulterior. Okay. So today, I serve as the CEO of Our Calling. And

Carolyn:

I am the chief people officer.

Wayne:

What does that mean?

Carolyn:

It means that I get to focus on my favorite thing, which is people. So that's the staff and the volunteers, and then a little bit of IT joined in the mix.

Wayne:

Okay. Well, why was Our Calling founded? Like, why why did we do this?

Carolyn:

I this is going to sound, like a Jesus juke, but it's just really I felt like there was nothing else. It was the thing that we were supposed to do. And I think the Lord made it abundantly clear and obvious that this was the direction that he wanted us to go in.

Wayne:

I think we saw a void, a vacuum. Mhmm.

Carolyn:

Yeah.

Wayne:

You know, Dallas doesn't need more seminary graduates floating around Dallas Yeah. Replicating what others are doing well. But we saw this void, and the void was spiritual care for people that are not in shelters. At the time, we had, 5 shelters. Now we have 6 shelters in Dallas.

Wayne:

And the faith based shelters provided a lot of great spiritual resources, but only for people on their campus. And I remember I went to the faith based shelters, got to know their CEOs really well and, you know, asked them, you know, hey, I'd love to do ministry on the streets and under bridges and bring guys in. And and, really, their focus is just their campus, which is great, but we saw this void of needs. We started 21 what am I in? 20

Carolyn:

23 years ago.

Wayne:

Yeah. 2000, 2,001, something like that. Where were we? What were we doing?

Carolyn:

In 2000, we moved to Dallas to go to DTS, and you were a full time student and also a full time employee. And you also wanted an outlet for everything that you were learning. Yeah. Just an outlet to practice what you were learning. And we were members at Northwest Bible Church at the time, and Friday nights was, I think, the only time that was really free for you.

Carolyn:

And, you that was what they did on Friday nights was they worked with, Rip Parker serving meals to our homeless friends in a couple different locations in downtown. Yeah.

Wayne:

Yeah. So city hall, the building is shaped like this. If you ever watched, Robocop, you've seen it in there. And back in the day, this is before 9 11, I when it was raining, I'd actually back my truck up right up to the building underneath it. This is where we were serving meals.

Wayne:

You know, a little backtrack, we both have a history with people that are, in desperate need in different ways. You know, my parents became foster parents when I was a kid, so we had almost 70 different kids come into the house that had been exposed to all kinds of horrors and trauma. And so I've been around homelessness and homeless kids since I was probably 10 years old.

Carolyn:

Mhmm.

Wayne:

Then I had a pretty come to Jesus moment in college, a couple of those with homelessness, with people that were really struggling. I remember I was on summer project in Santa Cruz one time downtown, and I saw this old guy digging in a trash can and I felt really convicted and I walked up and I said, man, I will buy you dinner at any restaurant in this town. And he stood up and took this nasty, like, half strawberry milkshake and was starting to drink, you know, through the straw. And he's and he just looked at me and shook his head and walked around and walked the other way. And I remember it just hitting me hard that people in desperate need need more than what we can see with our eyes.

Wayne:

Right? He needs a whole lot more than food.

Carolyn:

Yeah.

Wayne:

And during that summer, we were working with gang members and and other folks and then, you know, started doing street outreach and evangelism with crusade in a bunch of different places and then moved to Dallas. Yeah. And then you had experience with brokenness and people at an early age as well?

Carolyn:

Yeah. Just in high school middle middle school and high school, I had a lot of friends that had very different upbringings than me. And just with the trauma that they had experienced in their lives and even were experiencing at that time, It was a lot of exposure to mental health challenges and addictions and sexual abuse that some of my friends were experiencing. And what I discovered is that I couldn't fix everything.

Wayne:

Mhmm.

Carolyn:

And I saw a lot of hurt and a lot of desperate need, and it was big need. And, just quickly realized that I'm not Jesus and that what I can do is come alongside someone and point them to Jesus and be a friend and a support and an encourager. And, Yeah. That's what I get to do here.

Wayne:

And in the fall of 2000, we moved to Dallas. We had a newborn at the time, and I was a software developer still. And in, it was just a few months later, I think in Yeah. 2021, like in January, saw the thing at Northwest Bible Church and started going out. The church was going out on Friday nights.

Wayne:

There were other church going different nights. Mhmm. And there there's no one that invented homeless ministry. Right? No one even invented, kind of, what we do here.

Wayne:

Right? There's other people that have been doing it longer and probably do it a lot better. But at the time, Rip Parker was a guy that, kind of, had dedicated his life to going out serving the homeless throughout Dallas 7 days a week.

Carolyn:

7 days a week.

Wayne:

And we were the Friday night crew going out with him. And it was just interesting. We were serving meals and realizing people needed more than that. I was learning theology at school and wanted to know how to share that, and so started leading Bible studies under bridges and Mhmm. In parks under trees and decided on And

Carolyn:

how to contextualize it.

Wayne:

Yeah. Yeah. Contextualizing. I remember at one point, after I'd left software development, I had a job at Northwest, and I had keys and probably wasn't supposed to do this, but I would go to the Preston AA Group, and recruit guys there that I'd bring over, unlock the church at night, and, lead Bible studies at night. And I was teaching these former heroin addicts and crack addicts, professor Hendricks Bible study methods and other stuff because I thought, hey, man, theology and Yeah.

Wayne:

Systematic theology and bible study methods is what people really, really need. But, really, again, I think that's elementary to to some of the the bigger needs that they had. Mhmm. And we really never wanted to start a nonprofit. Mhmm.

Wayne:

That was never the plan. We were planning on going

Carolyn:

We were added to the Middle East. Yep. We wanted to live in Jordan, and we wanted to devote our lives to sharing the gospel and loving on our Muslim neighbors.

Wayne:

Yeah.

Carolyn:

And everything we were doing was on that trajectory. And, you know, when we were meeting with different mission agencies and talk to them about what we wanted to do, and then they wanted to know what we were currently doing, and it was all related to homelessness here in Dallas. And one of the the mission agency reps just said, I don't think you are supposed to go to the Middle East. You have something here, and I think that's where you're supposed to be. And god really definitely flipped the script.

Carolyn:

And it, honestly, it took me some time to come to terms with that. And, being 47 years old, I can look back at my younger self and just say that it was just an act of of trust and just giving God my yes and not knowing fully what that meant, but just trusting him with myself and with my future and with our future.

Wayne:

Yeah. I remember the conversation was kinda like, why would you go overseas to look for a ministry

Carolyn:

Yeah.

Wayne:

When you kinda have one here? And it was crazy because when we, you know, started using the name Our Calling way before we even incorporated, we had all these other churches coming. Mhmm. And we do this big Friday night thing, and then Saturday, we'd have all these churches meeting in the parking lot at Northwest, and, you know, we would talk about how to share the gospel and kind of what we learned from the week before. And and it was fun.

Wayne:

We would go out and and it would just started growing

Carolyn:

Mhmm.

Wayne:

With resources we were distributing and how to share their faith. I remember at one point, I was, discipling a group of homeless guys and we would take them to the state fair of Texas. And these these guys would be in the booth with me where you're sharing the gospel. And I told them, okay, here's the gig. You can't tell anybody you're homeless because that really doesn't matter when you're sharing the gospel.

Wayne:

And it was so cool to see guys that live on the streets were sharing their faith

Carolyn:

Yeah.

Wayne:

And leading people to Christ. That was fun. Early day stuff.

Carolyn:

And we were so young.

Wayne:

Yeah. So 2,000, we came with a baby, and then we had a couple more.

Carolyn:

We had yeah. 3 more. Yep.

Wayne:

Yep. Started with a new baby in 2003. 2001, I left software development, started working at Northwest. 2,000 3, started working at DTS, on faculty there. And then we were doing so much with the homeless community.

Wayne:

I don't know how what precipitated it, but we kind of realized this is kind of where the Lord's calling us. I remember one night, because it it at some point about 16 years ago, 2008 ish, 7 or 8, the city opened up the bridge, their city shelter. And so then we started serving at the bridge rather than on the streets, meals on Friday nights. And I remember one night, one of our one of my friends that was serving with us, he looked at me as we're serving food and, you know how it is, you're you're serving people that are hungry, but you look at them and, emotionally, their life is just Yeah. Destroyed.

Wayne:

I mean, I remember people just weeping over their food and as they would come in and get a plate of food, it the food's necessary. Mhmm. I remember one time I was on the streets and serving food and this guy walks up to me with tears coming down his eyes and he says, do you really think that sandwich is gonna fix my problems?

Carolyn:

Yeah. And I

Wayne:

was like, nope. Wow. Okay. Yeah. So, but anyway, we were at the bridge serving one night and one of my friends, Chris, said, hey, isn't there something more we can do than just food?

Wayne:

And I said, well, I have an idea. Kind of a vision. Mhmm. And that's kinda where we brought together a group of folks and kinda formed a board and said, hey, what if we were full time missionaries Mhmm. But not in the Middle East, but, like, in Dallas, but on the streets?

Wayne:

Mhmm. Like, going in the woods, finding people in camps, and trekking with the hospital, and helping them walk with the Lord. And and at the time, you know, we went went around to churches and said, hey, we want to be missionaries in Dallas. And, it was we got some positives and some negatives. Mhmm.

Wayne:

We had some churches that said, hey, if you don't have a passport, it's not really missions. And then we had some that were really pioneering, that were supported us like Northwest, in the early days.

Carolyn:

I think too that some people a lot of people didn't know how big the situation was and continues to be here in Dallas. It's I think our homeless friends are are hidden pretty well. And, you know, when you're in Dallas and you're living life, it's really easy to not see it. And I think that was something that, we were able to bring people along and say, like, this is a this is a big issue in Dallas, and there's more people than you realize. And that's been a really fun journey too.

Wayne:

You know, it's well, you can't unsee it once you see it. So you have volunteers come down for the weekend and they're like, hey, I'm gonna pass out meals. Then when they come down and when you go to, you know, camps where people are living and you go behind buildings and you show them the reality, they see a world that they have ignored.

Carolyn:

Mhmm. Right?

Wayne:

It's very easy to drive over the bridge and not think about the people under the bridge. Yeah. And I remember in the early days at one point, you know, we we were having lots of volunteers come out. And I don't remember if we'd incorporated by then or not, but a news reporter went out with me one day. It's so funny.

Wayne:

She's now the head reporter of one of the big stations, so I won't say her name. But she goes out with me with a film crew, a guy, and a camera, and we go It

Carolyn:

was summertime.

Wayne:

Yeah. It was summertime, mosquitoes, hot. We go down off of Military Parkway, down a camp off of there.

Carolyn:

Mhmm.

Wayne:

Deep behind a liquor store and in the woods.

Carolyn:

That's very wet.

Wayne:

And there's a couple of dogs there, and she's more concerned about the stupid dogs than she is about the people.

Carolyn:

And they are cute dogs. I love dogs. Yes. We've got dogs.

Wayne:

Yeah. But she's so much more concerned about these dogs.

Carolyn:

Did not see the person.

Wayne:

She treats all the animals. And she asked me she put a camera on my face. She said, so why do you do this? And I I said, because you don't. Somebody has to be here.

Carolyn:

Mhmm.

Wayne:

And I I get choked up thinking about it because somebody has to go. Somebody has to be the hands and feet of Christ and I don't know how to do that. I don't know how to be like Jesus, but I know I can go. You know, our teams are going to the nastiest, craziest places around town, finding families fleeing domestic violence. You know, moms live in their cars.

Wayne:

Yeah. Elderly folks that have been abandoned to the streets. We find trafficking victims every single day. People that have been rejected by their family or their friends. You know, people that, are the outcast and someone has to go.

Wayne:

Mhmm. You know, I'm just convicted by, Matthew 28 when Jesus says at the Great Commission, go and make disciples. I have not no qualms with building a big church in a building and hoping everybody comes there and that's great. We go to a big church in town, we've been a part of a couple of churches, but we're also called to go Mhmm. And to be, a light in a dark place and to love people.

Wayne:

And we've seen the nastiest stuff. I mean, finding bodies, finding babies, finding abandoned kids, you know, finding I mean, people with bullet wounds. I've treated gunshot wounds and thrown people in the car and trying to take them to the hospital and Yeah. Stabbings and all kinds of stuff. And it's not the homeless community that is so nasty and mean to each other.

Wayne:

People experiencing homelessness have the highest rate of being victims of violent crimes.

Carolyn:

Yeah.

Wayne:

They're abused. Everything you read in the book of Proverbs of people taking advantage of the poor, you add to it Romans 1, which is like people not only sin, we invent new ways to sin, and they do all this stuff to people that are poor and take advantage of them. You know, we just we'd see just such a need and we could not walk away.

Carolyn:

Yeah. That's true. Yeah. They're people. We're in knowing that everybody that we encounter is made in the image of God makes it even more urgent in my mind and more important that people know that they are not forgotten and that knowing their name is important to us and knowing who they are.

Carolyn:

And I think just when a person knows that they are known and loved, it's a game changer. All of a sudden, there's hope for their future and that they're not just living this life alone and abandoned.

Wayne:

When someone's called by their first name Mhmm. And someone knows them Yeah. You know, homelessness is a state of isolation. Isolated from friends, from family, from food, from economics, from housing, from all this stuff. Yeah.

Wayne:

And to have someone that knows your name and gives a damn about you

Carolyn:

Mhmm.

Wayne:

And is concerned when they haven't seen you in a few days And, you know, wants to really walk with you and and care for you is is such a rarity for some of the people that we work with. I remember one time I was discipling this one guy and he asked me to go help him run some errands and I thought, sure man, no problem. I was supposed take him over here, and he's gonna pick up something, and have him go to his uncle's house and drop something off. And so, we go to the place and he picks up the stuff and whatever it was, and take him to his uncle's house, and then we go buy lunch somewhere. And I find out, you know, naive Wayne, that I took him to go steal something.

Wayne:

Oh, gosh. And then I took him to a dope house to go buy some dope, right, and sell something as I'm trying to disciple this guy and it's quickly realizing that these needs in the cross cultural, you know, I was taking cross cultural classes at DTS, and I feel like the cultural differences between a significant social economic

Carolyn:

Mhmm.

Wayne:

Group is so far different. It's the the it's so it's vastly different than people in the same socioeconomic status that might be live on the other side of the planet. So, you know, if I'm with someone who graduated from college from Kazakhstan or Italy or, you know, Brazil, I probably have a lot more in common with them than a kid that grew up in South Dallas watching his mom be a prostitute to put food on the table. Mhmm. And the cultural difference is so vast that this has been just a learning experience the whole, whole time.

Carolyn:

Yeah.

Wayne:

Yep. And while we were doing this, we had little kids. So what was it like on the kids

Carolyn:

The kid front.

Wayne:

Before we incorporated?

Carolyn:

Being a mom with kids, by 2007, we had 4. It was I'm not quite sure how everything got done. You know, I look back and I think, gosh. I must have been really tired all the time of, you know, kind of doing all the admin background of starting up a nonprofit and also being a mom and also working alongside you, it was a lot to juggle and really grateful for just the way the Lord carried us through carried me through a lot of that, and I learned a lot. Mhmm.

Carolyn:

And I look back at those times, and, in the moment, I think I wondered what was God doing and how was he using this? Because there's so much of it that felt disconnected. And now looking back on it, I think, really, what he was doing was just weaving all of these things that I needed to learn for where we are now as a couple working together in ministry with adult kids. You know, the life stage that we're at now, I feel like the Lord has just used all of this to sanctify me and prepare me for where we are now and what's next.

Wayne:

Yeah. I feel that seminary was great for me. However, you know, you're not prepared as a couple to go through the gauntlet of ministry Yeah. And to go through the gauntlet of creating a ministry and not having a support team and not having a home sending agency and all that kind of stuff. It was rough and, you know, we just to backtrack a little bit, 2003, 4, 5 ish, the city created an new law where it was illegal at that point to serve food on the streets.

Wayne:

Mhmm. Brilliant. Dumb thing. Right? And so they'd literally put up signs all over the city and they started writing tickets or warnings to a bunch of our peers, other 8 groups that were going out.

Wayne:

You know, we, of course, never been the only people doing any of this. Yeah. And then, we started we got kinda got some major threats of being shut down by the city, like, permanently. They wanted to fine us and give us a bunch of tickets. And and so I reached out to all of our, you know, donors and volunteers at the time and said, hey and people were donating socks at the time.

Wayne:

We didn't have any money. So t shirts and toothbrushes. And we just said, hey, would you pray? Would you join us in praying that God would fight for us? I mean, Artaxerxes.

Wayne:

Right? So, when Nehemiah goes before the king Mhmm. Right? He's not a believer, and yet God gave him favor with the king and said, what can I do to help? I remember getting a call one day from someone from the city of Dallas.

Wayne:

And at that time, all of homelessness was under environmental services. So wherever this bulky trash and stray dogs were, it's where they That's

Carolyn:

where yes.

Wayne:

Cared for people experiencing homelessness. Anyway, I got a call from one of them one day. I remember it's the weirdest thing. He said, I don't know who you are and I don't know, who Wayne Walker is. I don't know what you do and I don't know who you know.

Wayne:

However, the city has given you a 100% permission to serve at any time at anywhere. Yeah. And I was like What? Woah. Okay.

Wayne:

Don't know. And we still don't know who

Carolyn:

did this. We don't know who

Wayne:

made that happen. But, like, 6 months later or yeah. I think yeah. I think that might have been later, Katrina hit. Mhmm.

Wayne:

And then the city called and said, hey, would you guys help serve meals in a bigger way downtown? Because we were serving 800 people a night. Hot meals, we would cook them in Northwest Kitchen, the big commercial kitchen at the church, which by the way, churches have commercial kitchens. They should be using them more often. Not just for parties and events.

Wayne:

Anyway, so we were going in there and using the kitchen on a weekly basis. And then when Katrina hit, we were serving there. I remember I walked into the registrar's office at DTS and said, I'm canceling my classes this semester. We had too much to do.

Carolyn:

It was the very beginning of the semester.

Wayne:

Yeah. It's in September Mhmm. Ish ish. 2005. And you and I were serving at the convention center Mhmm.

Wayne:

With people, evacuees, whatever they called them then.

Carolyn:

In the parking garage.

Wayne:

People separated from their families by helicopter or whatever brought there and and then went to Slidell for a couple weeks with a team from Northwest, but really just took that semester kind of off to focus on this huge need growing in the city. And in 2009 is when we incorporated.

Carolyn:

Yeah.

Wayne:

When we kind of said, look, we wanna raise support as missionaries and this is how much money we need to raise in the bank, and this is how much we need, like, pledged over the next few years before I was able to leave my job. And I was a full time student, I was a full time employee at DTS.

Carolyn:

Yeah. And we had a side

Wayne:

business. And we had a side business, and I was an adjunct professor at DTS teaching a class in media arts and worship stuff before it was called Media Arts and Worship. And I remember Professor Hendricks mentored me during seminary. He's a great great guy. I loved him to death.

Wayne:

And I remember going to his office one day and talking to him and saying, hey, professor, I'm leaving the seminary, to go work with the homeless community. And he gave me, like, 20 reasons why not and why the seminary, you know, needed people to do the stuff I was doing. And I said, prophet, I love that, but there's nobody else that has is full time on the streets telling people about Jesus and I have to do it. And he looked at me and said, then you have to do it. Yeah.

Wayne:

And, you know, it was it was scary when we left.

Carolyn:

Mhmm. It was scary, but I will say because at the same time, we had gotten ourselves into pretty significant personal debt.

Wayne:

Oh, yeah. When we I was a software developer. We were making tons of money. Yes. And then I worked for a church, like most churches, weren't making any money.

Carolyn:

Yeah. And it took us a while to adjust to what we needed to do. But for me and this is where I feel that and where I I know and understand that God is incredibly personal and loves me because he knew exactly what I needed and what kind of assurance I needed because we were stepping into the unknown. And I felt like I was running towards a cliff at full speed and was just supposed to jump, and I didn't know what I was jumping into. But the same week that we got that we hit that mark of how much money we needed to have before we would leave full time work and jump into full time ministry was the same week that we paid off our debt, our personal debt.

Wayne:

A 100%.

Carolyn:

A 100%. And

Wayne:

Thanks, Dave Ramsey.

Carolyn:

Thanks, Dave Ramsey. But that was what I needed. What I personally needed to know. Like, okay. We are this is kind of like a Gideon moment where I'm like, alright, Lord.

Wayne:

Okay.

Carolyn:

Do you really want us to do this? But that's that's what I needed. And he wasn't upset with me for struggling to trust him. He just gave me this beautiful little gift of, hey. Now you guys don't have to fight so hard to get out of debt, and you can put all of your attention on this.

Carolyn:

So it was a beautiful gift of assurance that we were taking the next right step even if it was hard.

Wayne:

And a little scary.

Carolyn:

And a lot scary.

Wayne:

I learned that women have an extra gland.

Carolyn:

We do. It's called the security gland.

Wayne:

And you don't want to have that gland expressed, so women have to be secure and knowing that finances are in place and,

Carolyn:

Or just things.

Wayne:

Things. Right? Just That we can still pay the light bill and Mhmm.

Carolyn:

Yeah. That tomorrow is gonna be okay.

Wayne:

There you go. So left DTS full time on the streets.

Carolyn:

Closed our side business down.

Wayne:

February February 15th. 15th. Mhmm. Of 2010. 2009, we incorporated.

Wayne:

Mhmm. And we were still doing a lot of stuff. And 2010 is when we went full time. Mhmm. Mhmm.

Wayne:

With no other job.

Carolyn:

Just this one.

Wayne:

Yep. Yep. And I gave up all the side hustle stuff Mhmm. And which, again, reduced our income significantly.

Carolyn:

Yes. But also freed up our time.

Wayne:

Yes. Yeah.

Carolyn:

Why wasn't yeah. Yeah.

Wayne:

Yep. So for many years, you volunteered so much of your time doing the administrative parts. I'm not administrative. So, like, helping us manage a nonprofit, taxes Mhmm. Working with our auto Donor receipts.

Wayne:

All the thank you letter

Carolyn:

All the payrolls. Yeah.

Wayne:

Yeah. All this stuff. Unpaid. Right? You are not an employee.

Wayne:

And we just started little bitty. Mhmm. 2011, we moved into Haskell. Mhmm. We were in that little building there.

Carolyn:

500 South Haskell.

Wayne:

There you go. Between Deep Ellum and Fair Park.

Carolyn:

Mhmm.

Wayne:

And, really, to be just a coffee shop for the homeless. Yeah. We were leading bible studies in Cafe Brazil on Friday nights. If you bring 35 homeless guys to a coffee shop, it gets a little daunting and, kind of takes over the place. And sometimes it's not super conducive to bible study.

Wayne:

We weren't serving a meal, so just, hey, guys, we're here

Carolyn:

for Take some salsa and wine.

Wayne:

Salsa and if you want coffee, get it. We're here to study God's word.

Carolyn:

Yeah.

Wayne:

I was having a conversation with someone recently about bible studies for, you know, our friends that are on the streets, and they're like, how do you get them to come? Like, what's the bait? And and I said, you learn how to teach. Right? Yeah.

Wayne:

When you deliver God's word in a way that's interesting and is impactful, and people understand it, then they want to come back. If you have to bait them to come, then something's broken.

Carolyn:

Yeah. They're coming for the bait, not for the word.

Wayne:

Yeah. And and there's no bait here. That's just dumb. Yeah. You don't require people that you know, we say Jesus is not the chips and salsa in order to get the meal.

Wayne:

Right? Yeah. You know, get people to come because, you know, they're hungry for God's word. And and, you know, like in the book of Amos, there's a famine in the land. Mhmm.

Wayne:

It's a famine for God's word and his truth. And we can help fill that. Right? And Yeah. And really minister well.

Carolyn:

But we moved into that 3,000 square foot building, and we thought there is no way that we will ever be able to fill up all this space. And they were like

Wayne:

huge. Like, 40 chairs in there. Who would ever yeah. We had one shower.

Carolyn:

We did.

Wayne:

And lots of rats.

Carolyn:

Lot well, that's another story for another day.

Wayne:

And our kids, we were homeschooling in the building. Our kids. Yep. Yep.

Carolyn:

And We have lots of pictures of them playing chess and

Wayne:

And building a team.

Carolyn:

Yeah. And we were building a team.

Wayne:

Hiring people and

Carolyn:

Yeah.

Wayne:

Building a

Carolyn:

team.

Wayne:

So what are some funny stories that you can remember or some sad stories that you remember?

Carolyn:

You know, my counselor told me that usually our there's a lot of our memories we end up tying to 1 person. And not that I start to think, like, all of these memories happened with this one individual, but it's kind of the representation of what I've experienced working in this space. And her name is Yvonne. And my first encounter with Yvonne was her somehow coming into the building on Haskell, and she was in heroin withdrawal. And it was I had never seen that before.

Carolyn:

I didn't know what was happening, and it was very scary to me. And, I remember just thinking, like, this poor woman, she's tiny. She was very frail and maybe 5 feet tall. And she was dirty, and her hair was a mess, and, she was just in a lot of agony. And I remember there were a lot of things happening.

Carolyn:

I was trying to get our kids away from that. That's too much for them to understand. And so I was trying to get them back into the office and trying to call 911 and trying to figure out what's the best way to help her. And, you know, over the next couple of years, we got to know her really well, and she ended up having a really beautiful next few chapters in her life of recovery and reconciliation with some of her family and moving into a healthy community, which is what we desperately want for our homeless friends. But she kind of epitomizes what I've experienced here at Our Calling, and it's someone that I in the moment, I didn't know who she was.

Carolyn:

I just knew that I cared for her, and I loved her. And I I saw hope, and she didn't see that. And I remember thinking, like, how do how do you how do you extend or share hope with someone who feels hopeless?

Wayne:

Mhmm.

Carolyn:

And so, she was a very patient teacher with me. I learned a lot from her in the time that I got to know Yvonne. Some funny stories, I think.

Wayne:

No. Yvonne one one last thing with her. Yeah. She was assaulted on a regular basis. Yeah.

Wayne:

And at one point, she said something. Those words I've heard you repeat many, many times.

Carolyn:

Oh, yes. I asked her, one time just in a moment because I just truly didn't understand. Like, if the things that had happened to her against her will had happened to me, I don't think I would live. I think I would take my own life. And she was continuing to live and fighting.

Carolyn:

And I asked her. I was like, how do you how do you do that? I don't understand. Like, how do you wake up the night? How do, like, how do you keep going?

Carolyn:

And she said, sweetie, I just walk with a limp. And she recognizes that her life has been hampered in some way and that she's it's it's different than what she had hoped her life would be, but she just walks with a limp. She just keeps walking, and that has stuck with me. Yeah. She's an amazing woman.

Wayne:

We've learned a lot from our neighbors.

Carolyn:

Yep. And Much more than we could ever teach them.

Wayne:

Oh, they're the ones with the PhDs in homelessness. They're the experts.

Carolyn:

And life.

Wayne:

Yeah. And, you know, there's so much debate on what to call people experiencing homelessness. Are they homeless people? Are they houseless?

Carolyn:

Yeah.

Wayne:

Look, we know so many people that live on the streets that tell us they tell me, I'm a homeless person. Call me that. Okay? Okay. Right?

Wayne:

Fair enough. So depending on what group we're in. Right? Forgive us, but they are houseless. They are homeless.

Wayne:

Mhmm. They are experiencing homelessness, and they're neighbors.

Carolyn:

Our friends and they are our neighbors. Yeah.

Wayne:

Yeah. We've never called them clients. We've never do. It's always been friends, guests, neighbors. And then trying to help build a team

Carolyn:

Mhmm.

Wayne:

That will love people Yeah. Well. Mhmm. I think that's always really been the case. You know, we switched a little bit in how we do that over the years.

Carolyn:

Mhmm.

Wayne:

But I feel like the focus has always been how do we love our neighbors

Carolyn:

Mhmm.

Wayne:

And how do we get them off the streets? Yeah. In those early days, we saw all kinds of stuff. Lots of lots of gross stuff and our staff still get exposed to gross stuff.

Carolyn:

Yeah. And I think one of the biggest lessons we've learned is establishing where I end and where somebody else begins. Boundaries. Yeah. Boundaries.

Carolyn:

And then just honoring the autonomy in another person and not forcing decisions on them. And, k, you need to go to rehab and you need to go to this program and you need to get help. And instead, just honoring the fact that they are a human who makes their own decisions. And when they decide that they wanna get into a program, they're gonna tell me. They're gonna tell our staff.

Carolyn:

When they're ready to make these decisions, we honor them and and their journey.

Wayne:

Their autonomy.

Carolyn:

Yes. It's so important. I I don't want someone to tell me what to do. So I need to respect that with somebody else. Yes.

Carolyn:

You do know that. But, it's really easy in the space where we work that we hinge our success on the decision of somebody else, and practicing on a daily basis, I am responsible for asking the questions. I am not responsible for your answers. So if our 2 questions that we ask are, will you trust the Lord? Can I help you get off the streets?

Carolyn:

I wanna give our staff the tools to get better at asking those questions so that they are freed up, that their feelings of, did I do a good job today? Are not dependent on somebody else and their answer. And it allows us to have deep empathy and compassion for the people that we work with and allows us to know that I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. And so you have that that tension of the the yes and of it's it's extremely difficult, and it's extremely good. And learning to to wrestle with that and learning to know, hey.

Carolyn:

Right now, I need to tap out. Today has been really hard. I need to step away. And, you know, some of the other things that I think we've learned the hard way, you know, you and I have our scars. You and I both have crashed and burned pretty hard.

Wayne:

Mhmm.

Carolyn:

And the Lord has been incredibly gracious and merciful with you and me that not only did he repair us individually, he has kept us together.

Wayne:

Mhmm.

Carolyn:

And the longer that you and I are married, the fewer peers you and I have that are working together

Wayne:

and And still married.

Carolyn:

And staying married. Yeah. So that feels really special.

Wayne:

That's a whole another podcast.

Carolyn:

That's another podcast.

Wayne:

The horror and the joy of working and being married together.

Carolyn:

Yeah.

Wayne:

Anyway, that's History of Our Calling, and we will continue in another episode where we'll talk about kind of what our calling does and where we are now.

Carolyn:

Yeah. I got a little ahead of myself.