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The Psychedelic Psychologist is a conversational-style podcast hosted by Dr. Ryan Westrum with clients and guests who use talk therapy to integrate Psychedelic experiences for healing and personal transformation. Tune in to hear people’s experiences, breakthroughs and stories of healing addiction, depression, and trauma through Psychedelics. Dr. Ryan Westrum gracefully and empathetically narrates real therapy sessions with people in their most vulnerable and transformational moments.
I would like to invite you to take
a moment, a moment in your day,
finding yourself in a quiet space,
in a place to reflect.
In this moment, I invite you
to bring forth your ancestors,
your caregivers, and the people
that have held you and guided you.
Breathing in and breathing out,
I invite you to take space to reflect on
all the allies, all the caregivers, And
all the people that have inspired you
that have given you space
to be your authentic self,
breathing in and breathing out.
Feel the comfort,
be it grandparents, mentors, parents,
breathing out and breathing
in, deeply bring them to the
forefront of your presence.
witnessing how they showed up for you,
what they provided to you.
And as you do so, take a
moment to feel the safety,
feel the confidence,
and feel the reassurance of these
ancestors, these caregivers,
and these support systems.
Breathing in and breathing out,
taking a moment to connect to those
spirits, those people here and beyond.
And with one breath in and one honoring
breath out, taking a moment with one
breath in and one breath out to find
grounding to reconnect to your body.
And when you feel called
opening your eyes.
Hi, it's Ryan.
Welcome to your weekly dose of the
psychedelic psychologist, where I
invite my guests to share stories
about their psychedelic experiences.
We cover a variety of topics
from overcoming addiction and
severe depression to finding
wholeness and spiritual emergence.
Did I already get you?
Why are you laughing?
Did I, did I already see you cry?
I'm being recorded, aren't I?
I am profoundly humbled.
I am deeply, deeply honored and super,
super excited to talk to the most
special person in the entire world
to me, the person that I've known the
longest in my entire life in honor of
the fifth anniversary of the psychedelic
integration handbook, the re release
of the book that has changed my life.
And the person who has changed
my life the most significant,
my mother, Sandra Westrom.
How are you coming in today?
Good.
I'm good.
It's great to hear your voice.
Now, I am super excited
to have you here today.
And I know you love talking about
Can you tell me a little bit about
what it means to talk about this
subject matter, psychedelics?
What would you say comes
first and foremost for you?
Well, first of all, thank you for
having me and talking to me about this.
I'm going to be very honest.
Cause I think we had talked,
we, I grew up my childhood.
I was born in the fifties childhood in
the sixties into the early seventies.
And if you asked me then, like, or if
you even now what are psychedelics,
as a child that graduated high school
in 1972, to me, if I heard the word
psychedelics, then I would have probably
said, Oh, like psychedelic lighting.
You mean like the, like, like
the lighting at just at parties.
When we were dancing and the music
in the seventies and the music
of the Beatles, psychedelics.
Yeah.
But then if I really heard people
talk about what, what psychedelics
were, if you were taking the drug,
I would have thought of it as LSD,
like immediately hardcore LSD.
Oh my gosh.
And to be completely honest with you, I
was like a cheerleader in high school.
I was a young graduate at the age of
17 and I was super Susie cheerleader.
That's I mean, and I'm sure not
surprised to hear that about me.
So no, I had no experience
with ever thinking of or.
You know, if I heard LSD, I was
like, whoa, like that's crazy people
doing drugs, hardcore rock stars.
Like to me, I went away to
college and I was crazy if I had
a half a beer at a frat party.
Right.
So basically my experience
with psychedelics.
from growing young was zero.
And that's my frame of reference as a
young person coming into my adulthood.
The most I know about
psychedelics is anything I
probably learned from you, Ryan.
Yeah.
And so let's fast forward.
You're 21 years old and you give birth to
your first son, who I am 22, actually 22.
Thank you.
So we're 22 years apart.
Yeah.
A lot of my life is just to give
quick backdrop is first born
with a brother and a sister.
And so you're learning to parent
through my experience, and we're
going to go very psychedelic.
We'll go forward.
We're going to go backwards.
So Let's just drop into one of the
most profound things is you're a first
grade school teacher And so many times
people will talk to me and they'll
be like, oh wow You started using
psychedelics in your teenage years and
there's a precarious conversation that
comes with What was my lifestyle like
or what did I grow up living in right?
And I often say, I remember laying
in the back of the station wagon,
like looking out at the moon,
thinking the moon's following me.
And I have all these kinds of mystical
experiences as a very young child.
And you were capable.
I remember early on, like having these
conversations with me growing up on
the East coast, we have that kind of
connection to Salem and this idea of
like, But you are always, and I deeply
bow for you in this, is being a first
grade school teacher and someone that's
helped me, gave me space to kind of
just be curious and ask questions.
Can you tell me a little bit about
what that innate, knowing that I'm
your first born child and here I
am kind of also not like the most
simplified questions being asked of you?
Yeah, so I would say, again, you're right.
I was 22 years old.
Very young for, you know, to become
a new mom brought you came from
Massachusetts, brought you to Minnesota.
I knew very few people here had, you had a
wonderful father, have a wonderful father.
But I I guess I think about it.
I stayed home with you.
I was a stay at home mom until I
became that first grade school teacher.
And I guess I always looked at
you all the way up into your teens
as just a really good little boy.
And I was born into a family
and my parents always, I, I
trusted you to be a good boy.
It was like I knew I was
parenting the best that I could.
Mm-Hmm.
. And I think I've said
to you over the years.
You were my practice child.
Like you, you practice together.
I mean, you're right.
We are only 22 years apart.
And so I would look at you and you, in
my eyes, you were always a good little
boy, just caring, compassionate, even
like I say, into your teens, we'll go
into your teens now and so I started
coming up right now, emotional because.
I go back to that time and
that was the happiest day of
my life when you were born.
So innately, yes, I was
so excited to be a mom.
So I always trusted you and
piggyback into what I said about
my parents, my dad, especially.
My father, your grandpa was, you
were very connected to my father.
Always said to me, Sandra,
I am going to trust you.
You will have my utmost trust until
the day you don't earn it anymore.
So the day basically you cross me, right?
And my dad was a stern, strict
disciplinarian, sir, coming from
the depression and different
coming from the depression.
And I remember the so everything I have to
take from my parents from my mom and dad.
And I guess my dad probably influenced
me the most because, and I'm not
saying I was a strict disciplinarian
because I was not, I was not.
Are you saying me growing
marijuana in the basement in a
styrofoam cup wasn't, was strict?
That's probably where you get your space.
That's where you got your space to grow.
Literally and figuratively.
It's a beautiful thing that we can have
this conversation on that you're sitting
there looking at me and I'm looking at
you because as we all know, it could
have gone down a whole different road.
It could have, and I want to take
that moment and just piggybacking off
of that because there was many of my
friends that were thrown into treatment.
One of them, who means the world to
me, ended up losing his life to taking
his own life because of many of the
precarious things, and I don't judge
the other parents, but you're right.
I I circumvented many things
because of your capacity to have
conversations, your capacity.
To not overreact to say if I got
caught smoking marijuana, or if I
was being maybe obnoxious or even
to the point, and I'm accountable.
I was stealing, I was being crazy,
I was, but I was also still good at
school, so there was this safety for
you and I to have a conversation.
And at this moment, you're right there.
It could have went left of center.
And I think it is because of what you
had the capacity to talk about with me.
And we're talking high
school now and middle.
Right.
I'm thinking of you in, and I do remember
you like stealing things when you went
into your, one of your first Martino jobs.
As I reflect on that, maybe I should,
you know, I think, it's hard to
say, okay, I should have been firm,
or I should have grounded you.
I should have said, you're
not having that job anymore.
I can't explain, but it was,
again, I, I keep going back to the
word like, all right, I'm gonna
trust that Ryan's gonna do better.
I'm gonna trust that, and for lack of,
you know, I'm, he's gonna listen to his
heart and he is gonna be a good human
being and he is not gonna do that anymore.
Or, and then I.
I go to, so remember, I
became a teacher, Ryan.
I graduated in 1993 from
college with my degree.
You were a sophomore in high school.
I dragged all of you to my graduation.
You were at my college graduation with
your backpack on your back and you were
going to do homework that night and
you slept through my graduation, which
kind of is profound to me in some ways.
Like I wanted you to be there to
get in that moment to know, but
some way, somehow you must have
known that was important to me.
And you were there.
So maybe it's those little things that,
You didn't seem like it was significant
at the time, but now look at you.
Well, there's multiple degrees.
So you must have realized
how important that was to me.
And, and through your adult life
have continued your education.
Sure.
And I thank you for that.
And I think what you're addressing in
my planet, we call it synchronicities
or these coincidences that are profound
and I think one of them that I should
share is, and we'll dive into it, this
idea of, again, what I call psychedelic
parenting, which is, it doesn't mean that
the parent has to do psychedelics, but
their capacity to hold space and sit with.
And I want to drop into a funny story
that there was an evening in high school
where I had taken psilocybin mushrooms.
And I was home and everyone
was at the homecoming game.
And I recall going into your bedroom
and laying in your bed and feeling
deeply connected to you and feeling
as if it was almost me reconnecting.
And then I would walk downstairs into
the bedroom that you created with
sponged moon craters and black lights
and Jim Morrison and Jerry Kurt Cobain,
Kurt Cobain, Kurt Cobain, of course.
And I would say, yeah, and I
would sit in that room and think
of how my attachment to you was.
And so one of the most profound things
was here I am in our house and I'm
running upstairs, lying in bed in my young
teens, laying in your bed, feeling the
attachment to you and almost remembering
because I was born what three weeks late.
Yes.
Yes.
You were born three weeks late, correct?
And then I would run downstairs.
And lay in bed and feel the, the distance
of my attachment and we'll fast forward
and tell the story of then all of a
sudden I'm playing in bed and you and
dad come walking in and I'm in your
bedroom and you're, what do you do?
Give me your lived
experience of that moment.
Oh, I just remember we came home and
you were in, you were, you were in
our bed and you were on dad's side.
And we were like, going to get ready for,
and I like, Oh my gosh, what's Ryan doing?
And you were, you were just kind of,
you were, you know, sort of just there.
And then all of a sudden you're
like, you started just chat
jabbering, just like, Oh my God.
And, and you're transparently
Ryan, your dad was, you know, he's
hammered or he's been drinking or
he's Mike's he, and he was mad.
So I was like, calm down.
Ryan, are you okay?
Tell me what's going on.
Talk to me about what just happened.
I was at the football game and it's so
messed up mom and my tennis coach was
there and the band went on the field and
the band was like melting and everyone
in the band is melting and they're
all like melting into the field and
I'm just freaked out and And then I,
I, I'm pretty darn sure I hugged you.
I, I'm sure I was like, I
hugged you and I held you.
And I said, it's okay, Ryan,
what have you, what did you do?
What, you know, are you okay?
And I, and I said, I probably said
something like, were you drinking or
thinking you had been drinking and you,
and you just kept, you were scared.
You were scared.
Yeah, well, I was, at the same time,
just this is a beautiful conversation
because dad was worried because at
that moment there was a gentleman
named Len Bias who had cocaine after
drafting first of the Boston Celtics.
So in that moment, and this is a great
reframe and You were holding me tenderly
and I could share and feel safe.
And this is a very important
moment for me to articulate.
I remember the capacity I could go
to you, but right behind you, his
dad going, you're going to fucking
die by a snorted too much cocaine.
And I'm like pretty sure
I wasn't snorting cocaine.
So that tight rope, and this
is an important to share was.
You were like almost a filter or an
insulation to me, and I'm humbled and
super grateful because again, that
could have taken a turn to putting
me somewhere or locking me away
somewhere and whatever had happened.
And so then, and dad was pissed.
Yeah, it was pissed.
No, he was like, yeah, he's doing
up here, basically get them out of
my bed, like you're on his side.
Well, because he assumed it was either
a super hardcore drugs or alcohol.
And so this is an important moment
in, and I'm not articulating and
advocating for teenage boys or
girls to be doing mushrooms, but it
was synchronistic and it happened.
So then.
You get me downstairs and you,
in a way, in my planet, we talk
about talking through, not down.
So you, you allowed to
allow me to talk through it.
You didn't shut me up.
No, I actually, I, and I was like,
you had been with two buddies and I
wanted to make sure one, you know, one
of them went off to work to cup foods.
I'm like, I'm like, I won't mention names.
I'm like, he's a, he went to work mom.
And then the other one I
think dropped you off here.
I'm not, I quite frankly don't remember
how, I don't know how you got home,
because you were home before us.
But yes, Ryan, I, and again, I'm
not patting myself on the back,
but I'll just refer, go back to my
father being a strict disciplinarian.
Well, in, if that were my parenting
coming through, if I parented like
my dad, I probably would have said, I
probably would have said, that's it.
You're grounded.
I'm getting help for you tomorrow.
You're getting locked away until
you get this under control.
And that, that would be to me, a
strict parent would be like, not
giving you a chance to explain
what you did or what happened.
And I'm not, again, that's just,
I felt scared for you in all
seriousness, I wanted you to be okay.
You're my son.
And I cared about greatly that.
And I thought, well, I was scared for you.
So my way of parenting wasn't going
to be to yell at you and scream at
you and be all ground you for the
rest of your life, which that was my,
Mantra a lot of times when you or your
brother got in trouble, you're never
doing this for the rest of your life.
Right.
Which sounds just silly.
Which was silly because, you know,
then I would just, you would do
it in sleepover, I'd do it anyway.
. So I just, I was, if I said,
you're, what did you just do?
And you're never going out and you're
never gonna see your friends again because
I don't want you hanging around them.
Because that's how I was parented, Ryan.
And no, I understand.
And that's the beauty of
your, your perspective.
And I thank you.
And I think it's super grateful that
you were capable of letting me also
still interface with the same people.
And I think that's another aspect
that I'm remarking on in retrospect
is you never reframed or refused.
allowing me to be with the collective
of the people I was with, I would
sleep over at people's houses for
a day or two and, you know, do
some things and it was important.
And I I think my ask of you as we're
talking about psychedelics too, is as a
parent, what are some of the things in
retrospect now, knowing that, , I had
gone through, right, I've had seizures,
I do have, you know, a benign cyst
on the front of my lobe of my brain.
I have had, you know, some mental health
scares that you've been with me on.
What, what do you say not only to
me, but to others that when you
see children like that struggling,
how, how does a parent show up?
What, what is it that leads?
Wow.
It is, it's, I, I guess I just think,
I just think of unconditional
love immediately.
Just that unconditional love.
And again, the firstborn child,
I have three children and I love
them all equally, and you can say
that, like, I love all my children,
but that firstborn child and you, I
went through a struggle to have you.
I mean, well, carried you for almost
10 months, but you I don't know.
It's, I don't know what I, I
guess I'd say to other parents,
listen, listen to your children.
Don't shut them out.
It's, it'd be hard if I knew, I
didn't know the full capacity, Ryan,
obviously of what you were doing.
I wasn't educated in that, you know, if I,
I guess if I thought you were in danger.
Which maybe there were many times
you might've been, but I guess my
heart lent me always to listen.
Wanted to take care of you as I reflect
on life and having raised two more kids.
There are times I feel like maybe I
failed you because I was busy with the
other kids, but I did the best I could.
And you know, you didn't fail me.
You, you honored me to be on.
And I didn't fail you because I know
what, how you've turned into such
an amazing human being, but that's
extremely crazy, but still crazy.
And, you know, going back to when
I was in the first grade teacher.
So in those years, I'm trying to
think, cause there was that time.
What was this time you were,
I was a first grade teacher.
Oh.
You're in.
Can I digress and tell a quick story?
You can do anything you want , when
you were in the chef industry.
Sure.
And then you had kind of an evening
where, and I always felt, I don't know
why I felt honored, but you, you were
on your way home from work and it had
been a long day at work and you were
definitely not in your right mind.
And I'm, I think it was other.
Maybe too much alcohol.
I'm pretty sure it wasn't
psychedelics, but and you had
that problem with your car.
Yeah.
Where I crashed it.
Yeah.
You crashed your car and could have died.
I know I did die.
I literally a guy, a white
angel that me out of the car.
Yeah.
You crashed your car and we're near death.
I was then a first grade school
teacher and you called me to come
and get you called me to come
and talk to you at your house.
You called me.
Take care.
And I was there, and I came, and you,
and I think of that moment in my life
too, where I like to think I helped you.
Yeah, and that's my point of the allies
though, mom, is you, you are my caregiver
and you are safe, and I think this is
poignant, this isn't a digression, I,
, my mental health battles, and I'm not.
And I'm not happy go lucky and I
don't walk with rainbows and unicorns.
But what I do know is when I need
help and when I need support, it's
a person like yourself that I can
quickly drop in with and feel safe.
To share my vulnerability, to
share my truth, and to share
where I'm fractured, or where I
need a little bit of perspective.
And you've always, and I, I think
that's needed for everybody, is to
have that ally or that safe person
just to be heard or witnessed.
Right.
And, and so I would tell parents,
like you asked about just parents,
that maybe unconditional love.
There has to be that between a parent
and a child and I know that's easier.
I don't know I'm
just trying to think of any other
Unconditional love and giving
it giving children peace safety
It's, it's important.
So having known, I've been walking with
this for a couple of decades, if not more
since I am, you know, included in the
recreational use and the therapeutic and
the profession I walk in now, how do you
see, what would you say talking to people?
Cause it's easier now for you to
understand who I am and what I'm doing.
When someone talks to you about
psychedelics, or psychedelic
medicine, or psychedelic therapy,
how are you able to articulate to
someone that doesn't understand it?
Knowing that you've never done it, and
I honor that about you, and I'm never
going to put anything on you, how do
you voice What I'm doing to others,
how does that come up in your circles?
That's a really good question, Ryan,
because if you weren't in, just say
you weren't in the profession you're
in and having dialogue around this.
I'll just use a current example of
something on the news came up with the
psychedelic mushrooms in Minnesota.
And becoming, correct me if I'm
wrong, but becoming like legal usage,
decriminalized, decriminalized.
Yep.
Thank you for the term.
So if you weren't in what you're in, and
we weren't having conversations like this,
I'd probably just mute the nose and be
like, well, that doesn't pertain to me.
But now I'm very, I am interested in it.
And I think about it.
So when you asked the question,
talking to my friends.
Or if that ever comes up in conversation
with my demographic, which is people over
65, you know, 65 to 75, some that would
say, Oh gosh, that's just dangerous.
That's, you know, I wouldn't do that.
Oh, why are they talking about doing that?
That's so, I now can say, Oh, but
wait a minute my son has written
a book about, you know, my son has
written a book about psychedelics.
And then you talked
about the help mushrooms.
I'm going to just use an example
and you can correct me if I'm wrong
to help people maybe with PTSD.
that are post traumatic stress syndrome
that are have a lot of stress in
their life and how that can help them.
I don't know how I can help
them because I haven't used it.
I haven't tried it.
So I can't speak from experience,
but I can only speak from what you've
taught me and told me how I can help
people and how, and so no, I'm not
quick to judge and say, Oh gosh, I
wouldn't, I would never allow that.
Or.
So it's changed my thinking as
far as now recreational usage.
Would I tell you to go do it
every day or every weekend
when you're raising toddlers?
No, and I think, but that gets to
the point of what you're saying is
it's a cultural reframe and I think
that's where I come in to also be
prudent of what you're saying and
advocate for an appropriate, and
intentional way of using it.
So yeah, I honor recreational use.
I honor therapeutic use,
but having grown up.
In the nineties and the eighties,
it's no different than you guys in
the fifties, sixties and seventies.
There was an influx of Dare
by Nancy Reagan, right?
Your brain drug is the
frying pan with the the egg.
And then you guys try Nixon saying
you're gonna turn into an orange
tree if you do too much LSD.
And what I'm grateful for is at
least have room for the conversation.
I'm not asking everybody in the planet
to fucking do it right, but I'm asking
people to have an open mind to say, Hey.
Talk to someone that has
informed information to do it.
And that's just you just
said something that jarred.
The other thing is like you said,
recreational use versus therapeutic use.
So when that would come
up, I and I'm proud.
So this is just an interesting.
So when I was a first grade
school teacher, as you alluded
to in the earlier question.
Of course, I was very shut
down about talking about it.
Yeah, you almost didn't want to.
I didn't want to talk about it.
I'm like, Oh, my, my son's a psychologist.
He just helps people and, and you
were maybe on the cutting edge.
And I always have told you this
personally, you know, Ryan,
you're like on the cutting edge
of what's going to come about.
But I never talked about it because
no, I couldn't, I felt I couldn't.
That was me internally feeling like,
you Oh my gosh, I can't sit in the
lunchroom as a first grade school
teacher going, Oh yeah, my son's
like, you know, he's going to do
psychedelics and push mushroom therapy.
And you know, that wasn't anything you
sat in the teacher's lounge talking about
and being super proud of your oldest son.
I'm being transparent
now, as you can hear.
But now I'm 69 years old and I'm with
Older people that quite honestly, I
think I'll say the therapeutic use could
be beneficial to many of our friends.
Some of our friends could be very,
we have a lot of friends that are
Vietnam war veterans that, or, you
know, so yes, I'm eager to learn more.
Well, in the death anxiety, the death
anxiety and the spirit just, and
that leads me to our spiritual paths.
And I'm really grateful.
What's the emotion coming
up right now that I see?
You're helping people.
But to your point of your generation
too, thank you for saying that.
But it's, it's seeing something
in a different paradigm.
It's seeing through a different lens.
And I'm not asking everybody and their
brother and the baby boomer generation
to, you know, drop in and tune out.
Like Tim Leary said, but there's a
value when, if we're on the precipice
of a transition or an Ascension to.
an afterlife, or the next life, or
whatever someone's spiritual belief
is, I believe psychedelics is going to
help people clarify and crystallize.
And that doesn't mean you have to do
it, but living in what you articulated
today so well, mom, is a psychedelic
mindset, which is open minded, trusting,
unconditional love, and non judgment.
And I'm thankful that you
walk in the world like that.
I appreciate that.
Well, you're welcome.
I'm thinking when you just said
that because I think, I think you've
said like the psychedelic experience
or what I've read in your books
so far, the psychedelic experience
can bring you clarity on your past.
Connect you to.
So I will just say, am I ready to try it?
No.
? No, because I'm scared because Ryan,
because like, because you're scared.
Can you control?
Because I'm scared.
Because I'm scared.
So why am I scared?
Because you know your mother
who needs to be in control you.
So I might get there someday.
Maybe my 70th birthday.
Sure.
Maybe I'll never do anything unconsensual.
Maybe an experiential 70th birthday.
But I'm just saying at least I
can be honest and we can laugh.
I think about it.
But I think to connect to my past to
really know before We go to where,
like you just said, leading into the
spirituality because you and I, and this
is probably a conversation for another
whole session and segment, but because
as I've told you, I'm afraid to die.
I don't want to die.
And it's the fear.
What am I afraid, I don't,
you know what it is.
I don't want to leave everybody
here that's here like you.
That's my fear.
I don't want to leave you.
I don't leave my other children.
I don't want to leave my grandchildren.
I have too much to do here.
So again, that's a conversation, you
know, you and I can have together too.
What am I seeing in you though?
When you come up against the
fear, what's behind the fear?
What can you dig into underneath?
And it's interesting cause I think
about that and it's like because
I really feel like spiritually,
I know where my soul's going.
I know where I'm going.
Cause I do have a belief in God or
I do have a belief in the afterlife.
And I do believe that when I'm
gone, I'm going to see you again.
I definitely believe that we're
going to all reconnect and it
actually I'm getting as the older
I get and the more I think about.
Not being present on this earthly
where we are now, maybe it's going
to be a more beautiful place.
Well, it could be a different
planet, like 16 different galaxies
away where I have six heads and you
have six heads and we talk a lot.
A lot of talking.
So.
Doesn't that give you like
a little bit of levity?
I mean, someone once told me serious.
Why so serious?
The wisdom, like, so we can be
really serious about this and
think we're all going to die.
And like, but at the end of the
day, we're all going to die.
So we're not here forever.
No.
And then the love that you have and
the sharing, does it give you peace?
of understanding and all without
pushing you into a space of, I
don't want to discount your fear.
I respect your fear.
And that's holding space.
Someone just died recently in our family.
Does it give you any excitement
to see what's on the other side?
You know, yeah, that's
a good question, Ryan.
I should be excited because there's
a like, especially like, I want to be
reconnected with my mom and dad, you
know, there's a, yeah, to, to be excited
about what is there on the other side.
Yeah.
That reframe.
What does that do to you when you get
that reframe to think that there's
something towards that you're going
towards rather than holding on to or going
away from or holding on to this life?
More peace, more peace, less stress.
Well, yeah, exactly.
And on top of it, you're fucking
keeping me in the space of having
more children all the time.
And you're like, I
mean, it keeps me stuck.
Because now you're just like,
I want to be a grandma forever.
And I'm like, fuck,
like, I want to grow up.
I know.
I know.
What do you do?
Let me ask you, what are you doing?
What?
Tell me what you think about death and
like why you're really you seem like
you're really would be just fine going to
the other side I am super fine with it.
I think it's honestly having lost
people so early in my life gave
me a quick imprint of I don't
want to say being thirsty for
death, but I think being curious.
I think my curiosity of it And then,
through psychedelics, I've learned that
there's so many possible opportunities.
I can't guarantee that we're
gonna be with harps and fluffy
cotton candy, as you know.
I don't think that.
But I also think we could be energy.
We could shift into a different paradigm.
I think my curiosity is so insatiable.
That I often just lean into the
opportunity of being able to think
that the more I actually think of my
impermanence in my life, being dead,
that I have found that I've become more
and more curious and excited about life.
It's when I don't think of impermanence,
or the existential idea of dying, is
when I actually get more depressed.
When I think that, oh my
god, this is all there is.
And not that life isn't beautiful, I
think, but you know, you've been with
me on my, my mental health journey.
It's when I have the opportunity to think
of beyond this paradigm and this life.
Is when I get the chance to go, fuck,
there is something, and I do believe
we'll cross paths at some energetic level.
How that is or what that is, I
give that up to the mystery of
God and the divine architect.
But to your point, I think having
watched people die really early and
taken away from me very early, and
then also This idea of like, oh my
god, it's not just limited to this
ball flying through fucking space.
That's too limited for me.
And so that's crazy because the
word curiosity, just curiosity, and
we started our conversation going
back to me having you when I was
22, and you're just a little boy.
You were always curious.
Always just a curious little child.
So isn't that interesting?
That is very interesting.
Thanks for sharing that.
Yeah.
It's a whole new way
now to look about dying.
Well, we can do that all day long.
I love to talk about that.
Mom, what are you doing to be
gentle with yourself today?
I ask many people and
I often walk with that.
How are you being gentle
with yourself today?
I'm actually Very, I started with
a very lovely conversation with
my oldest son and I love that.
So following this, I am actually going to
meet with Dad and I are going to, we're
going to have go for a walk with very
good friends and her birthday is tomorrow.
So we were talking about going out
to Afton we're going to take a hike
because it's a beautiful day and we're
going to walk and I'm going to celebrate
the life of one of my good friends.
That's beautiful.
. And interesting, Ryan, so she really
is excited to just spend some time
together today and we're going to walk
and talk and I probably will share
a lot of this conversation with her
because I think it will help her.
I love you mom.
Thanks for not making me look too crazy.
I love you Ryan.
Have a beautiful day.