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What happens when you spend six days in complete darkness, no phone, no light, no distractions, and finally stop trying to hold it all together?In this profound and intimate conversation, Barb Patterson sits down with Scott Kelly, a transformative coach whose experience in a dark retreat revealed what it truly means to let go and trust life.Scott shares how exhaustion, striving, and a lifetime of “it’s all up to me” slowly gave way to deep rest, surrender, and freedom.Together, Barb and Scott explore:* The power of darkness to illuminate what’s true* How nervous system healing opens the door to deeper trust* Why letting go isn’t collapse — it’s alignment with the intelligence of life* What happens when we stop living from survival and start letting life leadA conversation about surrender, aliveness, and the light that finds us when we stop searching for it.Thank you for listening to The Innerverse of Business and Life Podcast! To learn more about Barb visit her website (https://barbarapatterson.com/).SHOW NOTES* [00:00] - Introduction and Personal Transformations* [03:51] - The Dark Retreat Experience* [13:06] - Insights from the Dark* [22:13] - Integration and Returning to the World* [34:20] - Letting Go of Identity* [42:25] - Trusting the Process of Change* [50:35] - Final Thoughts and ReflectionsSHOW LINKSVisit Scott’s WebsiteConnect with Scott on LinkedinFollow Scott on Instagram
What happens when you spend six days in complete darkness, no phone, no light, no distractions, and finally stop trying to hold it all together?
In this profound and intimate conversation, Barb Patterson sits down with Scott Kelly, a transformative coach whose experience in a dark retreat revealed what it truly means to let go and trust life.
Scott shares how exhaustion, striving, and a lifetime of “it’s all up to me” slowly gave way to deep rest, surrender, and freedom.
Together, Barb and Scott explore:
A conversation about surrender, aliveness, and the light that finds us when we stop searching for it.
Thank you for listening to The Innerverse of Business and Life Podcast! To learn more about Barb visit her website.
This podcast is a space to explore the profound connection between our inner world and our work in the world. We dive deep into the heart of what it means to live and work from a felt knowing of our essential selves – aligned, alive, and fully expressed. We’ll play at the intersection of business, spirituality, consciousness, and growth.
Through intimate conversations with thought leaders, change-makers, authors, and humans just like you and me, you’ll hear real stories of transformation and the internal shifts, “aha” moments, and wake-up calls that have helped them to access new dimensions of creativity, higher levels of intelligence, unlock dormant potentials and experience greater joy and fulfillment.
Barb Patterson (00:56)
Hi everyone. Welcome back to the Interverse of Business and Life. I'm Barb Pedersen. Today's conversation is with a good friend and colleague, Scott Kelly. Scott is a transformational coach who brings depth, insight, and a wealth of experience and always a lot of humor to his work. In this episode, Scott shares a remarkable experience, a six day dark retreat that became a turning point in how he sees himself, his work, and life itself.
What began as exhaustion and striving turned into an unexpected invitation to rest, let go, and to discover the quiet intelligence that's always holding us. As you'll hear in this experience, it also brought Scott face to face with the identities he built over years, the provider, the protector, the successful professional, and the fear of who he might be if he let all of that go.
Letting these go though wasn't easy by any means as you'll hear, but what emerged was a deeper sense of trust and freedom and alignment with life's natural flow and ultimately what he really desired. We talk about what happens when we stop trying to have it all together, when we meet resistance and how the nervous system trust and transformation are intimately connected.
I love this one and I think you will too. As always, I'm so glad you're here. If you know anyone that would benefit from this conversation, please share it. with Scott.
Barb Patterson (02:43)
Welcome Scott. Thank you so much for being here.
Scott Kelly (02:49)
So nice to be with you, Barb. Thank you so much for having me.
Barb Patterson (02:52)
Yeah, I'm really looking forward to like diving in and just to let â everyone know that Scott and I are good friends as well as colleagues. And â we've known each other now about 14 years, I think, or somewhere around there. â so Scott and I in our journey as solopreneurs and the working with other people in the field of transformation,
You know, we also like share our own personal transformations with one another. And over the last couple of years in particular, I know I've seen for myself that to the degree that I'm willing to kind of what I point other people to point myself to as well. You know, I really see this relationship to the growth internally allowing for more impact with. â
the people I work with. And so that place of how do we share from authentic, real, powerful, and give people the freedom and the courage to do the same is, you I can't really do that if I'm just conceptual. I can't really do that if it's all theory. Not in the way that I enjoy working and the places that I've seen the biggest growth. And so we've been, we thought today,
It would be great conversation and perhaps helpful for people to hear what are the personal edges we've had to face? What are some of those growth points that, you know, we've had over the last couple of years? And you in particular, Scott, I appreciate you saying yes to this. And I'm not surprised that you're willing to be so open and all of that, but I'm really grateful. Nevertheless, I'm not even sure if that's the correct way to use that word, but you get what I mean. Yeah.
Scott Kelly (04:45)
I got
it.
Barb Patterson (04:47)
Okay,
good. â So I would love to, you know, just start with, â you know, you and I talked prior and you did a pretty revolutionary for you kind of retreat a number of years ago. And let's just start there. So â tell us about that experience, what it was, what drew you to it. And then I'd love to just hear what you saw for yourself.
Scott Kelly (05:14)
Yeah, thanks, Barb. Yeah, well, it was a couple years ago and leading up to that, we were obviously all in the midst of COVID and all that that brought in its many gifts and awarenesses. â I found myself, â to be honest with you, I found myself in a kind of a heavy space. And I wouldn't say it was because of
COVID per se, but it was the way that I was perceiving myself and life. And the way that that was showing up for me was that I was just finding myself tired. I was exhausted. And â my wife would, she would oftentimes comment like, why are you tired all the time? And you know, for those who don't know me, I've been, I was a health practitioner for many, years and pride myself on
on taking care of myself and eating well and doing all the things. And I was at a point where I wasn't really sleeping that well, but at the same time, the fatigue was â just kind of overwhelming. And I felt incredibly drawn, and I don't know why to this day, I felt incredibly drawn to a dark retreat. And
I had heard about them, I had learned a little bit about them over the years, but it really just kind of was one of those things that popped into my awareness. And most importantly, there was a really strong draw to it from inside. like I said, I don't know why, I have no idea why. It didn't make sense. It didn't make sense to me at the time to go take a week plus.
off of time, away from my family, away from work and go sit in the dark. â But nonetheless, it was what I felt drawn to and I said yes to it. And what was interesting is that the closer that I got to it, as I researched it, as I reached out to the host, I just felt this incredible pull towards it more and more. And so that's what I did.
Barb Patterson (07:39)
Can you
just not just at a high level for people that don't know what a dark retreat is? What is?
Scott Kelly (07:44)
Yeah,
so I spent six and a half days in complete darkness. Not even a shred of light, not even a photon of light, complete darkness by myself, â where I was fed two fantastic meals a day that were delivered outside of my door in complete darkness. And I...
literally found myself in retreat, â in blackness, not able to see a single thing for six and a half days.
Barb Patterson (08:24)
Yeah, like
not even the hand in front of you, right? Like, yeah.
Scott Kelly (08:28)
Not even the, no,
not even the hand in front of me. mean, literally blackness. Like it's not the kind of darkness you have in your bedroom, but it's literally blackness. I mean, I would oftentimes put my hand in front of my face. Immediately when the door closed and it was time to begin, I would check to see and I could not see a single thing. And it was wild to experience.
life without that sense. But that was really the beginning of really allowing myself to go inward in a more profound way than perhaps I ever really had.
Barb Patterson (09:12)
Yeah, well I know when you got back and we were talking about it there were a few things you shared that just really like had a strong impact on me via your sharing. So I'd love for you to share just a few of those things that you saw during that retreat.
Scott Kelly (09:32)
Yeah, well the thing, the first thing, Barb, and I was so grateful to my host because oftentimes you come into these experiences with a bunch of ideas of what you think you should do and how you're gonna kind of step into the experience. And, you know, I thought that, you know, because breath work is such a huge part of my life and the work that I do, I thought that I might do some breath work. I thought that maybe I would do some yoga in the dark. â And,
You know, there was one tip that my host gave me and â they said, you know, just allow yourself to be in the dark. There's nothing you need to catch up on. There's nothing, there's no yoga that you need to do. There's no breath work you need to do. You can just allow yourself to be in the experience of the dark and allow the dark to show you what it wants to show you.
Barb Patterson (10:25)
Yeah, which I
have to interject. knew from listening. I'm like six days. I mean, my mind is already like, what the, you know, so I, yes, please keep going. I just have to acknowledge.
Scott Kelly (10:31)
Yeah.
Yeah, well,
but what was interesting was the amount of space that that immediately created. I had no idea that I was even holding ideas that I needed to do something while I was there. Yeah, yeah, and what was so interesting is as soon as the lights went out, I could feel, the first thing I felt was my nervous system starting to exhale.
Barb Patterson (10:48)
Yeah, to fill the time. Yeah. Yeah.
Scott Kelly (11:04)
I mean, it was so, so powerful. I could feel like my nervous system was starting to just open up and relax. And I had no idea how much tension and how much load I was holding in that system. And the first experience that I had was â falling asleep. And the second tip that they gave me was just allow yourself to sleep as much as your body wants to sleep.
And so I did, I fell asleep and what's wild in the dark is that you have no idea how long you're sleeping. Time is not even an option to begin to calculate. Yet that's what the brain wants to do, but I had no idea how long I would sleep. I didn't know if it was five minutes or an hour, two or three, I had no idea. So I slept and then I would wake up and then I would fall asleep again.
And in that moment, what I really started to recognize was that I was just so tired, so, so tired. And the first thing that the darkness wanted to share with me was that I was innocently carrying a load that was not mine to carry and that it was a safe place to just let go.
and that it wanted me to relax, it wanted me to open up, it wanted me to just let go so that I could fall out of the survival that I was living in, that I didn't realize I was living in. I had no idea I was living in the space of survival. As I look back now, I can see all of the evidence of that, but in that moment, I had no idea.
And that was the first part of my experience for the first probably three days, two and a half to three days. I have no idea how much I slept, but I slept a lot and never have I felt so â rejuvenated and â relaxed. And it's kind of wild to think that I'm sitting there in complete darkness.
feeling really, really good about my body, my life, whatever. But it was mostly because my nervous system had a chance to let go. And I had nothing to do. There was nothing to do. There was nothing to solve. was nothing, I mean, literally everything that you would probably occupy your mind with was taken away and all that was left was rest.
Barb Patterson (14:02)
And so as you found your nervous system relaxing and then the resting, â you know, your internal, were you just peaceful the whole time? you know, like, what did you see that, â you know, in that, I would imagine over six days, you're going to have a multitude of internal experiences. But I'm just curious if you could speak to a couple.
Scott Kelly (14:15)
No.
Yeah.
You know, I think I have such a trust that life is so intelligent and what it wanted to show me â required me to be in an open, peaceful space so that I could actually begin to recognize, you know, what I saw was if, and I'll share a little bit about what was revealed to me, but.
If I was shown some of these things in that space of a tight, wound up nervous system in a place of survival, I would have just been in absolute resistance the entire time. But in a way, because I was allowed to rest, I was allowed to open up, it allowed me to really see what I was holding in a really innocent way.
And so initially, oftentimes what happens after three days in a dark retreat is one might start to have visions or hallucinations or it's because of the melatonin, the amount of melatonin that is built up in the system. But what began to happen was I would â begin to feel very, very heavy.
and I would begin to feel quite buzzy and I would drift off and I would kind of move into this state where it was life showing me â all the things that I had innocently kind of been holding on to and innocently been in resistance to and was showing me that this is how I'd been living my life.
Barb Patterson (16:25)
Yeah.
Scott Kelly (16:26)
from a place that â was becoming heavier and heavier and heavier. And the experience for me outside of that darker treat before going in was exhaustion, as you know, and it was just simply showing me these are all the things that you think your job, you think that these are up to you, you think that this is on you, you think that, and.
And as I started to see that more and more, I could actually allow myself to relax. Was it hard to see? Absolutely really hard to see. And largely because, you know, everything that I was doing in life was coming from a well intentioned place. It was coming from my heart. It was coming from wanting to be of service. It was coming from wanting to be
Barb Patterson (17:16)
Yeah.
Scott Kelly (17:22)
a good father, a good husband, someone who has impact in the world and help people navigate out of their struggles. â
Barb Patterson (17:35)
So what are those things that you're talking about that you are holding on to?
Scott Kelly (17:42)
You know, well, first and foremost, I was operating from a belief that it was all up to me. Everybody's outcome was up to me. â That it was up to me to protect my family. It was up to me to protect my kids. It was up to me to make sure that my business was thriving. It was up to me to make sure that people got the outcomes that they wanted and needed. It was up to me
to make sure that I provided enough income for my family to thrive. It was up to me to provide experiences for them. was up, everything was up to me. It was up to me to maintain my health and wellbeing. It was up to me to have insights. was up, everything was up to me, everything. And... â
And I began to realize that how untrue that really was in that moment. But that was just a very, like it was a sneak peek at like, is how you've been holding life. This is ultimately what's true. And now I was in a choice point. But before I didn't see that there was a choice, I just thought that that's the way it,
That's the way it was. And Barb, the thing about it is, think this is true for all of us, is that we don't even know that we're doing what we're up, we don't even know what we're up to. know, the way that I think about it and the way I think about it for my clients to this day is that we all innocently put on virtual reality glasses and we can't see outside of those glasses. It's not like we put them on and take them on and put them on and take them off. It's literally, this is a perspective.
and everything that you experience in life is that perspective. So in other words, I was the perspective of it's all up to me, I have to do everything. And so everything I experience is gonna be reflected through that lens. there didn't look like there was any choice or option outside of that. So it didn't make sense that I had choice, it just looked like that's the way it was.
Barb Patterson (19:46)
Yeah.
Yeah.
So then when you say all of sudden you were kind of at a crossroads, there was another way, what was the other way? If it's not all up to you, what were you seeing in that moment? What were you being shown as an alternative?
Scott Kelly (20:20)
â nothing in that moment. You know, what, what I, what I saw in that moment was that, that there was a really beautiful way in which life was, life was unfolding. Life was holding me in that space and it wasn't giving me a solution. It was just pointing to this is how you've innocently been doing it.
Barb Patterson (20:22)
Ha ha ha ha.
Scott Kelly (20:51)
And in a way it was kind of giving me permission to not have to do it that way. It was giving me permission to look â to a much more expansive place of trust rather than having to trust anything that I've accumulated in my brain as far as story and identity and roles.
It was inviting me to see life as a spaciousness that I could trust because I wasn't in a trustful space. I was in a space where I can't trust all that I'm seeing and experiencing and how could I with those lenses on? So it was all up to me. So I wasn't shown anything about what to do, but it was more of a feeling of
you can let go and you can actually begin to trust in a much deeper way.
Barb Patterson (21:56)
Yeah. And then I think that those moments, those realizations or insights, when we see them, you feel truth in them. So I appreciate what you're saying. It didn't come with a formula. It came with truth. And that is often the transformative element. You can just feel the truth of it. in that, combining that with what you said, like your nervous system relaxing more first allowed you to see it. And then
Scott Kelly (22:06)
Yes.
Barb Patterson (22:25)
â You know that relaxed nervous system lets that truth integrate perhaps â in a more profound way. I know you got to do the integration out in the world, but just in that moment is really what I'm speaking to.
Scott Kelly (22:40)
Yeah, and I think that's just it, Barbara. Like I wasn't looking, like there was such a feeling of truth to it that I wasn't looking for a, how do I do it? It just felt, it felt so true. And my body was so relaxed. It was so relaxed that I felt like, my gosh, I could go out into the world and be absolutely okay.
Barb Patterson (22:48)
Yeah.
Yeah.
and your body relaxed even more.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Scott Kelly (23:09)
And we can speak to that in a little bit, but that's a whole nother piece of the puzzle is when you step out of that space, there's a whole nother information.
Barb Patterson (23:20)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I
want to go there too in just a minute, but I want to give you an opportunity. Was there anything else within the dark retreat that had an impact in you in such a way that it did, you took it with you?
Scott Kelly (23:39)
Yeah, mean, my gosh, there are so many nuggets that really just kind of reflected one of the most powerful things. â After probably four days or so, I remember sitting there and I lifted my hand and I could see the outline of my hand. And I'm thinking,
wait a second, there is not a shard of light in here. And I looked up and I could see across, I could see a piece of furniture across the room. And the room is only like 10 by 10 maybe. â I could see a piece of furniture. I could see the outlines of things. And so I reached over and â I had a mind fold. A mind fold is a.
blindfold that you could, I mean, you can't see anything when you're wearing a blindfold. So I put on this blindfold, because I really wanted to see if I was hallucinating or what was going on. So I put this blindfold on and sure enough, I could still see my hand. I could see the piece of furniture across the room. And what I started to realize is two things, that my brain was actually creating a map of the world. It was creating a map.
of my experience. â And in funny ways, the map wasn't totally accurate. And what I mean by that is I could see this piece of furniture across the room. And so I made my way across the room, but where my brain was telling me it was, it actually wasn't quite there.
And what I started to recognize was my brain, our brains, the brain is doing this for all of us all the time. It's creating a map, but the map isn't actually accurate. It's creating boundaries and it's creating barriers and it's creating â perceptions of life that aren't really accurate.
They're made up based on â something that we've experienced. And I had experienced the room for about 30 minutes before the lights went out. And so my brain was actually creating a map based on that, but it wasn't an accurate map. And that's one of the things I really took out of that experience. It was such an embodied â knowing from that point that my brain is going to create
boundaries and barriers where there are no boundaries and barriers. And it's up to me to question that. Are there really any boundaries and barriers or are they all just kind of made up by the lens or the perception that I'm operating from in that moment?
Barb Patterson (26:42)
Yeah.
Yeah, I think that's amazing. Like it has so many layers to it that if we can just become a little suspect of what our mind, the conclusions we're drawing, the way we think it is, just to realize like there's, you know, in a different internal state of mind, the mind might create a different picture, right? Like there's all these sorts of things. And it makes me think of â
A few months ago, I interviewed Kirk Souter and Kirk lost his leg a couple years ago now. He made the choice. â And â we were talking about a memory like that sensation. And he was saying that he shared a story about how â he was sitting on the couch and his wife was sitting next to him.
and she placed the phone where his leg used to be and he had the feeling of the phone resting on his leg. And then he shared another example and I know there's a lot of different things out there about the energetic body and all that. But to me when we first, he and I first talked about that, I was like, yeah, because in the mind's map, there's a version of Kirk that still has that leg there.
Scott Kelly (28:22)
That's right.
Barb Patterson (28:23)
You know, and so it's even though the leg is not there, you know, so it's a really amazing kind of if people can get open to this idea that perhaps what the mind is creating and painting a picture of isn't as you said, you know, like what's really here, it might be referencing the past, might be referencing conditioned thought, limitations, fears. â
you know, an idealized image of what you'd like, know, kind of variety, but it's not always reflecting what is actually there.
Scott Kelly (29:00)
That's right. Yeah, and look, was in a way like my experience with that in that dark space. â It was helpful in a way. I mean, it was helpful to be able to see this piece of furniture. wasn't like it was completely inaccurate. It was trying to help me out. It just wasn't it wasn't accurate. And so to your point, Barb, yeah, absolutely. I think it's important to be able to question.
Barb Patterson (29:17)
Yeah. Yeah, was trying to help you out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Scott Kelly (29:29)
â
to be suspicious, but more important to be curious about is that really, yeah, is that really there or is there more possibility in that space?
Barb Patterson (29:33)
Yeah, yeah, that's a better word. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Well, and â I think that what I'd love to do is â really talk about then that kind of next transition. And recently you and I were talking about â work you had done with a client and you used a phrasing that I think just kind of came to you in the moment, but I'm going to try and help you remember because I love the way you said it.
and hope you'll know what I mean. But you said they had this major internal realization and awareness and good feeling and they felt different. And yet they were getting ready to get on the flights back home into a world that maybe wasn't different. Do you remember what I'm talking about Scott and what you said? Because I'm thinking the reason I'm bringing it up is that was you.
Like then you left that, you had all these awarenesses, the nervous system, the mind trying to help you out, but not really accurate. You saw that in a deeper place, you were holding on to a lot of ways that you thought, you know, were yours, things you thought were yours to do and you were exhausted. Like you saw these beautiful things. So how did that show up then as you went back home?
Scott Kelly (31:06)
Yeah, know, Barbara, think this for me is really, you know, in the world of coaching and transformation and shift, having shifts. I think this is kind of where, really where the rubber meets the road. â you know, this is kind of what integration is all about. Having this really profound experience â and even,
as I left the retreat and I was driving to the airport, I was still having these experiences of how I perceived the people around me in a much different way than I did before I went in. And when I got on the plane, I arrived home and now I'm in a familiar space and
Barb Patterson (31:52)
Yeah.
Scott Kelly (32:03)
The familiar space is, it's a world that I built from an old understanding. So that, you know, my house, the decor, my relationships, my business, everything that I had built, I had built from kind of a â different operating system, a different nervous system, a different understanding. And so here's this,
this kind of â version of me meeting an old, â know, old kind of evidence of me. And it was jarring. And what was jarring about it was that I immediately found myself in resistance. And...
Barb Patterson (32:45)
Yeah.
Scott Kelly (33:01)
I wanted to stay in that open space that was full of trust and full of possibility and yet I was in this space that was like asking me, it wasn't literally, but the way I was perceiving it, it was asking me to be the old version of me. And I was in such resistance to it.
I could just feel it in my body. Now, it wasn't immediate, but I could just feel the trickle effect. I could feel me trying to hang on to the feeling that I had in the retreat space. And I think this is true for the vast majority of people who do any kind of retreat work. They return home and they're confronted with the evidence of an old version of themselves. And so,
That for me began the process of integration. And to this day, I am still integrating that experience. And the way that I think about it is, I had this really amazing experience. This is a concept, right? But I had this experience that was kind of in this realm. And I come home and I'm kind of living in this realm. And the invitation for me,
was to begin the process of integrating this experience, right? And what that meant was to see where I was in resistance to life.
And that's where the work, the real work began, is I had to begin to see all the ways that I was literally in resistance to life. I was being asked to trust life, but I was in resistance to life.
Barb Patterson (35:06)
it
to life. Yeah. Meaning what you were in resistant to the way it looked, to what was happening, what were you in resistance to?
Scott Kelly (35:16)
â I was in resistance to... â
to my relationship with my work. I was in resistance. Like again, I came home and I thought I still had to do everything. The bills still needed to be paid. I still was raising two children. I'm still having to play protector. You know, like all of these things and I didn't realize that there's a way in which like none of that was actually my job. So.
Barb Patterson (35:49)
So
the resistance was letting it go, letting go of that, you I know you've used the phrase, you said it a little earlier and when we've talked, but like the identity of protector, the identity of provider, the identity, is that... Yeah.
Scott Kelly (35:52)
the news.
Yes,
is understanding that what I had to let go of, I'm glad that's a great question, Bob. What I had to let go of was the idea that it was all up to me.
Like.
And it doesn't, the way that it comes through is, mean, we might say, well, if you think that it's all up to you and then you realize that it's not really up to you, then just don't let it be up to you. But that's a weird compensation, right? And so what really the deeper invitation for me was, if it's not all up to me, then.
the first step for me was to find evidence for how, what are all the ways in life that are not up to me? And it was that exploration of really understanding that like the way that my body functions is not, the vast majority of it is not up to me. And I talk about this all the time, but it just didn't occur to me that
That was a blind spot for me. My immune system, not up to me. My cardiovascular system, not up to me. The way that my cells die and are born, not up to me. These things happen from a deeper place of intelligence that even in medicine, we understand maybe a fraction of it, the vast majority of it is unknown. And we pretend to explain it, but we don't understand it.
And so it's not up to me. So finding more and more evidence of how life was not up to me and then allowing myself a little bit more trust and a little bit more trust and a little bit more trust was really what began to help me dissolve this idea that it was all up to me.
Barb Patterson (38:07)
Yeah, and I think that, you know, what you're really talking about is like, we can have a realization and then where the rubber hits the road is kind of like in the day to day. So I really appreciate what you're saying. It's like for you coming back, you could see you'd been holding on to things. so the letting go of those felt like a truth, a worthy thing to do. But then you come back and part of letting go of the identity of
provider is, well, who am I if I'm not that? You know, well, if I let go, is it all just going to go, you know, fall apart? Or if I let go of and I know one of the big ones for you, and I'm wondering if you could speak to it is like kind of the history of your work and your reputation. Can you know, like part of it was you had this pull and desire and you'd been doing it.
Scott Kelly (38:41)
That's right.
Barb Patterson (39:06)
to move in a direction more in your work, but you really were resistant, not consciously, not because just out of protest, but the letting go of that identity of who you were in your work and how people perceived you was a challenge. yet, even though your heart's desire wanted it, and I think people can relate to that. That's why I'd love to have you speak to that.
Scott Kelly (39:32)
Yeah, yeah, thanks Barb. My whole career has evolved in this process of really wanting to â be of service to people in their health and their wellbeing in many, many dimensions. It started in the world of â sports therapy and physical therapy and migrated into nutrition and â corrective exercise and performance work.
There was so much built, so much identity and so much was built on that foundation. And where I have been really, really drawn in the past 10 to 15 years, more and more have been drawn into this world of helping people see the depth and truth of who they are beyond their thinking and â what becomes available when we begin to...
connect into that space. So in a way,
to be able to step into that space more and more â required me to let go of this identity and this career that I had built for so many years. And that was terrifying. It was terrifying not only because of the identity that I had wrapped up in it, it was terrifying because of the reputation that I had built around it.
And it was terrifying because my whole light, my whole world was built on it. It was all up to me. And so if I get rid of this identity that has provided me so much in the realm of my career and being able to support my family, if I get rid of that, then what's gonna happen? And so I was living in a lot of fear around letting that go.
and not understanding how I was gonna make things work without it. And so in a way, I continued to carry it and it became heavier and heavier and heavier on my nervous system. For something that began as such a powerful... â
Barb Patterson (41:44)
Yeah.
Scott Kelly (42:04)
place to play in the world for me, it was becoming a real burden for me to haul it around. Only not because I don't believe in it. Man, I believe in well-being, exercise, nutrition, corrective, I love it, I love it. And for me, there was such a deep invitation to step into this other space, but my identity and the role that I had been playing and so much.
was connected and attached to that way of being in the world, that I had no idea how I would survive and if I'd be a responsible person if I let it all go.
Barb Patterson (42:48)
So why do it? Like, you know, like why do it? What? Yeah.
Scott Kelly (42:53)
Why let it go?
â Well, that was the thing, Barb. I would negotiate each day. I would be like, can do it. I can do it all. mean, it's from a beautiful intention. I mean, I'm helping people, but ultimately, it was my relationship with it. â It was almost like the chapter was done.
Barb Patterson (43:03)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's it, right? It's like, you know, in a way, there was something still inside you compelled enough to say, I'm willing to meet this fear, I'm willing to meet these, because, you know, what you shared earlier, like that the desire to want to show up and serve in a different way, that became greater than the willingness to face your fears to
practice what we preach, to be the student, to face all of that, was really the... It's like life was giving you what you needed to step into that next level of expression.
Scott Kelly (44:05)
Yeah, and it was so, there was so much reflection in it. mean, and what I mean by that is I would literally sit and reflect around what is it that my experience in the dark was showing me? And what came back over and over again was this deep sense of trust, really deep sense of trust. And that, I mean, it doesn't make sense to go in the dark.
to get insight, right? And so, like in a way, as I reflect, I'm like, wow, you know what? That deep sense of trust is what's inviting me to do something that feels terrifying. I could feel in me that there is something in me that, I mean, it sounds dramatic, but there was something in me that was ready to die.
Barb Patterson (44:35)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Scott Kelly (45:06)
â And I couldn't put my finger on it until I started to get really curious about letting that go, but more importantly, allowing the space for what wanted to really come through. And that's really the most important thing is that something wanted to be let go of so that something deeper and more
Barb Patterson (45:12)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Scott Kelly (45:34)
profound that I was in alignment with that had life in it â could come through. And it was in letting that go and letting a lot of that work go that has created a spaciousness, a playfulness, a deeper level of trust. â I mean, it's really amazing. â
It's amazing to see what we innocently carry around and feel obligated to carry around, not realizing that we're making that up too. That those lenses look so real and I carried so much evidence for how they are real and true that until I began to take them off,
Barb Patterson (46:16)
Yeah.
Scott Kelly (46:31)
and most importantly began to step into life, not in a retreat, but in life itself to show me that yes, you can trust that too, and you can trust that too.
Barb Patterson (46:41)
Yeah.
And it's, think, a really beautiful example around how change and transformation can have constriction and resistance and alignment and all of that can be ingredients, but they serve you and they serve the deeper intention. And I'm curious, as you were
sort of meeting the resistance to let go of identities, of all those identities and your reputation to step into what just felt like was calling you literally, right? â You didn't have... Your trust wasn't, I trust it's all going to work out per se, although we sort of want that guarantee, but you put your trust in the deeper call and that you could trust what was wanting to.
be expressed. You can trust what was wanting to come through. You could trust that the truth you were seeing, that you aren't those things and that the grip of them was actually limiting you at this point in your life. You could trust that. And then the rest is like, let's just go live our life and see what happens.
Scott Kelly (47:48)
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I don't know how life is gonna turn out. I don't know how the rest of this day is gonna turn out. I don't know the next question that Barb's gonna ask, right? But what I've learned to really trust is that I have the capacity to show up to whatever shows up. And that's something... â
Barb Patterson (48:00)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's beautiful.
Scott Kelly (48:23)
that I think is, it's a lifelong journey in that direction is just learning. And what I'm really also seeing, those of you who have heard me or talk in the past, I always talk about life as an invitation. It's always just inviting us to see the truth of who we are. And oftentimes it will do that through contrast, but in a resistant,
wound up nervous system, it's hard to see that. And from a quieter open place, if things aren't working out, quote unquote, working out, like the truth of it is life is revealing some deeper truth within me that wants to come forward in my ability to show up to whatever's showing up. And that's, yeah.
Barb Patterson (49:18)
Yeah, that's great. And the... I'm
sorry, Scott. Were you going to...
Scott Kelly (49:22)
No,
I was just saying that, and that for me, you know, really comes around to that trust that I can trust that whatever's showing up, â it may not match an expectation that I have. It may not match a want or a desire that I have, but ultimately, it's going to reveal a constraint that I'm innocently holding onto that I can let that go to, to become even.
â more open to what life wants to reveal.
Barb Patterson (49:56)
Yeah, I love that. just, is there anything that you could share that was helpful to you and continues to be? Because I know this is not like, you're arrived. You know, we all have blind spots and edges and we meet those identities, the places we've over identified with about ourselves and the world. So what helped you? Do you have any just...
a few couple things you could say that might help people as they're on that journey.
Scott Kelly (50:27)
Yeah, you know what, one thing that really comes to mind, Barb, â for me, I don't get a sense that there is any such thing as arrival. There is no arrival. We're not going anywhere, we're not getting anywhere. We're just being revealed more and more, the truth in depth and capacities of what's available to us through us.
who we are outside of this personality. And that for me is just a, it's an unfolding. I think that has been such a helpful place to stand to recognize there's no there there. I'm not getting anywhere. There's no place I'm gonna eventually arrive where I'm gonna have this like, I don't even know what, but.
Barb Patterson (51:24)
Yeah.
Scott Kelly (51:26)
but ultimately. â
being willing to...
to kind of allow life to reveal deeper truths, being willing to look into what looks really dark, to see the truth in that. know, like being able to look into the dark spaces and to know that there's freedom in the dark. There's so much freedom in the dark.
Barb Patterson (52:04)
Yeah, that's beautiful.
Scott Kelly (52:07)
and â
and that from a quieter space of my nervous system, I can more easily not only perceive those spaces to look into, but have the willingness to look into them â and see what wants to be revealed.
Barb Patterson (52:31)
Yeah, that's so powerful. you know, I think that just seeing that consciously or unconsciously, there's times where resisting that truth or we and again, it's not like out of protest per se, or it's all innocent, as you've been saying, but I love how you're phrasing that a willingness to look in the dark and then the relationship between the nervous system and
like our ability to see and move through that with more grace. But also that constriction is a part of it. Like the goal isn't also to try and avoid that energy or that pain or that like to meet it. In all your examples, you were willing to meet what was present for you. And so I think that's really beautiful. And, you know, Scott, I, as we do, I could keep talking about this. know there's so many other nuggets we could get into, but I just
you know, as we come towards the end of our time together, I just want to give you an opportunity. Is there any sort of final thoughts or anything that's on your mind that you haven't had a chance to say today?
Scott Kelly (53:37)
Oh, Barb, you know, so first of all, thank you so much. I just, always love spending time with you and your curiosity and being able to share. And so thank you for having me on. And you know, I think, you know, what's really resonating for me, I think in the world that we live in, we are all being exposed to a division.
but the division actually isn't happening out in the world. That's the illusion. The division is actually happening inside of us. And what really resonates with me right now is the invitation for all of us to look within ourselves and stop waiting for the world outside to be a better place so that you can be better inside. If you are willing to look within yourself,
if you're willing to go into those spaces, to your point, if you're willing to meet whatever's arising from a place of curiosity and acceptance, we all can actually become less divided as we become whole within ourselves. And as we become whole within ourselves, we will literally see a shift in the world. And I don't mean that in some grandiose way, but...
I just see so often in my clients and the people I see in the world is we're waiting for the leaders to change. We're waiting for a policy to change. Guess what? The change has to come from inside. And that's the biggest, deepest, most powerful invitation because no matter what's happening out in the world, you'll be free once you're free inside.
Barb Patterson (55:26)
Amazing. A perfect way to end our time together. Thank you so much, Scott. I really appreciate you. Love you too.
Scott Kelly (55:33)
Thanks Barb, love you.