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The New Mom Podcast is a Christian motherhood podcast for women navigating pregnancy, postpartum, and early motherhood.
Whether you're a first-time mom, expecting, or in the middle of sleepless nights, this show offers real, honest conversations about motherhood, marriage, identity, and faith. We talk about birth stories, postpartum recovery, relationships, mental health, and trusting God through every stage of motherhood. If you're looking for encouragement, practical advice, and a reminder that you're not alone—this podcast is for you.
Our prayer is that New Mom leaves you feeling seen, strengthened, and a little more equipped for the beautiful calling of motherhood!
New episodes weekly.
Hello, and welcome back to New Mom. I'm your host, Carrie Alexander, and I am so excited to be with you here today. Okay. Today on the show, have Monika Kirkland. Monika is a wife, a mom of four, and an author.
Carrie:Her new book, Ever With You is so good. She's here to talk about it today. Becoming fully awake to the God who is near. I personally love this book. I think it's so practical.
Carrie:It's such a good read. If you're just looking for truly deeper ways to connect with Jesus in the depths of motherhood, work, busy life. Monika just really gives us so many practical tips. It's just a great read. And she also just- we just dive into motherhood in general.
Carrie:She's a mom of four and they adopted their youngest, a little boy. And there's just a really beautiful God story around it that I'm really excited for you all to hear. So it's a great conversation. I'm so excited for you to get to know Monika. She's a true delight.
Carrie:So without further ado, here is my conversation with Monika Kirkland. Yay. Monika, welcome to New Mom.
Monika:I'm so excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me.
Carrie:Absolutely. I'm so excited to have you. By the way, your blonde hair is really beautiful. I was just noticing before
Carrie:we started recording, I was like, I'll wait to tell
Carrie:her, but it's just like such a beautiful, lovely color. I feel like ever since I became a mom and I dealt with, like, postpartum hair loss, I just really noticed good hair. Oh. You know?
Monika:She noticed it. I did just get it done.
Carrie:So my There we
Monika:go. She did. She gets all the credit. She did a I fantastic
Carrie:just got some highlights done and I went to church a couple days ago and someone noticed and I was like,
Carrie:it's the best when
Carrie:you're... When they're like, your hair... Did you just do your hair?
Carrie:It looks really good. I'm like, yes. Yes.
Monika:It was such a treat.
Carrie:It's the best feeling. Oh my gosh, okay, well welcome to New Mom. I would love it if you would just share a little bit about yourself and your story and your family and however you want to introduce us.
Monika:I'm a wife. I married my high school sweetheart. We've been dating since high school, got married young, started a family young. So we grew up and met in Orlando, Florida and then we left behind everyone and everything, sold everything and moved to to Southern California.
Carrie:Where in Southern California?
Monika:I don't think I've shared this with you yet, but originally LA. So we were in Studio City. What? He was a musician and I was pursuing acting at the time.
Carrie:And so I know. Oh my gosh. This is so fun. I love meeting new friends live.
Monika:Yeah. So we did that only for two years and then I quickly realized that that was not for me and so we ended up moving down to Orange County. So that is where we did ministry for over ten years where we gave birth to our daughters, our first girls and then adopted our son. And then in 2022, we just began feeling like this stirring from the Lord, like this season was coming to an end and just kind of began praying through what that looked like. And we ended up coming to here to Tennessee to visit some mentors of ours who lived in Franklin.
Monika:And on that trip, the Lord just made it so clear that he was calling us to move here to Tennessee. So we once again sold our house, left behind everything, had no jobs, no prospects, just following the call of God on our lives. And we moved here. We're just like thirty minutes south of you.
Carrie:Yeah, and how long ago when did you guys move here?
Monika:So that was 2022. A few years now. I feel like it was just yesterday. I still feel kind of new to the area and it's been... I don't know if you feel this, it's been a little harder, like a little bit bigger of an adjustment than I expected, but I
Carrie:do love it. Well, you mentioned that in your book. You said something about like... I was actually telling my husband this this morning because I was reading some of your book literally this morning over coffee and we'll get into her book. It's very good.
Carrie:But, but when you were talking about moving and feeling like the Lord totally told you to move here and just absolutely felt the call of God on it and then you felt His His presence, like it was different. It was harder than you expected when you moved. And, just that really beautiful image you had of like seeing your daughter in the aquarium and read the book, guys will hear the whole story. But that really spoke to me because we have felt like it was so evident we were supposed to move here. I meet so many people and everyone's like, my gosh.
Carrie:It's different than I thought it would be, but God told us to move here.
Monika:Like, we
Carrie:all know we're supposed to be here. We don't exactly know why. And we we felt something similar. Like, we've only been here, maybe nine months. It has not been long at all.
Carrie:And we love it. But we have felt like, okay, Lord, you made it really clear to move. And now we're like, where are you? Like, what are you going to do? And it's so good.
Carrie:Like, we're in such a full season and, we're grateful and it's beautiful and we love it here. But we also feel like in a way we're still like, it's hard. Like anything you do with the Lord, that's a big step. Like it's hard when it's different than you thought it would be, or He gives you that space to roam or have a little free will. Like, it's just been interesting.
Carrie:But I opened up to someone about that at church recently and they also had moved here and they were like, oh, when we moved here, there were giants. In the promised land, there are giants. There's gonna be things. And, it was encouraging to me. It's funny when you shared that too, I was like, that's interesting that you felt similarly of we feel called and also it's different.
Carrie:It's, you know, challenging in certain ways, but also it feels like where you're supposed to be.
Monika:Exactly. I felt like we were, like, going into our promised land and then it was like, oh, no. We're in the wilderness and just wandering.
Carrie:Oh, you're talking to me. It was like
Monika:not what I expected at all because I really... Fact, like, you expect, okay, God, I was obedient. I did what you asked me to. Now I'm just favoring. Let's just
Carrie:let's go. We're entering the walls are coming down.
Monika:Yes. And it was not my experience at all. But yet, even so, like, I look back and I feel just so much gratitude for, like, all that the Lord did. Because when you take that leap of faith and you suddenly, like, we had no community, we had... You know, I was really lonely and really isolated.
Monika:But the way that the Lord used that in my life to just draw me close to him, like, I still... Like, as hard as it's been, I wouldn't trade it for the world.
Carrie:See, need to hear that because we're still in that early phase of building community and Yes. Being with a toddler at home a lot of the time feeling lonely in a sense. We share a car right now. So it's like, if he's gone, if he's working, I'm like, I'm just here. But it's good.
Carrie:And I feel I feel God in that. I don't know if any moms are listening that feel cooped up, or maybe they've moved, or maybe they switched churches, and there's just that loneliness. I think what you said is so beautiful. He meets us in the wilderness. He meets us in the loneliness.
Carrie:And He gets to in a way that when we're really full with community, like, because we've had abundant seasons with community and God's so present in that, but it feels there's a different need for Him when you're like, I'm here. I haven't found my people yet. I don't feel... Like, I do feel lonely. There's just like that beautiful need for him.
Carrie:We gotta
Monika:be in
Carrie:that place to really get to feel his presence and that like depth of connection with him. So, yeah, I love that you opened up about that. Okay. I always love to start the podcast with just asking what is the Lord teaching you in this particular season of motherhood?
Monika:Oh, that's a good one. So we... We'll talk more about this later, but we have adopted our our little guy. We have three girls and then we adopted our fourth. And he's six right now and he's in first grade.
Monika:And there's just a lot of unique challenges in this season of parenting him. And one thing that I really feel like God is showing me is that boundaries are actually beautiful. And I think sometimes I can be a bit of a pushover, I'm embarrassed to admit that, but I can feel like I don't wanna hold a boundary. Like, for example, let's say I don't let the kids eat in the living room. And so some days I hold the line and I'm really firm, you can't eat in the living room.
Monika:And then other days, like when I'm more laid back, I'll be a pushover and I'll be like, okay, it's not that big of a deal. Like, you can eat in the living room. And I feel like what God is actually showing me is that the boundaries, like holding boundaries when kids push them and they will, it's actually like a really beautiful gift to give them because they know what to expect. And that even though I think I'm being gracious and being the cool mom by letting them sometimes break the boundaries, that I'm actually, like, confusing them. And that the boundaries that I set when I hold them, it's actually one of the most loving things that I can do.
Monika:And
Carrie:that's so good. I need to hear that today. Like, we were on a walk this morning, my husband and I, and we're talking about your book. And then we were talking about... My my son is 17.
Carrie:And we were talking about, like... I just said... I was just really honest. I was like, I don't know... Like, he's a toddler now.
Carrie:Mhmm. I don't know if I'm doing the best job. Like, I kinda wanna talk to some people because I I feel that same way where we're like, okay, he's starting to push the boundaries of like, I say no and he's like, I don't care. Yeah. And so it's like, how hard do I push?
Carrie:He's little, but, we were just talking about like what you just said that you don't wanna confuse them. Like there's actually so much love in consistency. It's like every single time this happens, this happens, you know this. And you get to like, they're actually a safety in that. But it's hard to do.
Carrie:I'm gonna
Carrie:have a pushover too. Like, I think it's hard when
Carrie:he's like, Keith saying cracker.
Carrie:I'm like,
Carrie:fine cracker. I'm like, just have it. But no, we're not supposed to have snacks right now. Like... Yeah.
Carrie:You gotta pick your battles.
Monika:I mean, well, I felt like that was always my motto. Was like, pick your battles. But then I realized like that in picking my battles, like I had created confusion in my home because some days something was okay and then other days it's not okay. And it's really hard for kids to discern the difference. Kids are like, they're going to push the boundaries because that's actually how they discover where the boundary really is.
Monika:And so that has been a hard lesson to learn and I am so not perfect at it. It is truly a challenge and every one of my kids is so different that my girls, they're just completely wired differently. And I could just give them a look and they'll obey, but my son, he's like, No, we're gonna test exactly where these boundaries are. God has been really showing me that. It's been challenging.
Carrie:I was gonna ask if there's, I mean, three girls and then a boy. How much of, like, a difference that is with just the genders itself? Like, have you noticed that or are all your kids just super unique?
Monika:I mean, it has been a major difference. Like, my second, she was a little bit more rambunctious, a little bit more wild in general. But my little guy, like, he is just like the energy and the testosterone and like every... He is just like all boy. And there's days where I'm like, I don't know what to do with this My girls will be sitting there coloring at their coloring books and he's jumping on the couch, flipping off It's a just wild.
Monika:And so there has to be a grace there too that, wow, you were really wired so differently. So I I do talk to my husband quite a bit. I'm like, can you help me understand what it is like to be a little boy? Because I don't know what to do with him some days.
Carrie:I feel this. I feel this. We're literally dealing... This is my son right now. He's just started learning to climb on the furniture.
Carrie:And so now it's just like dive bombing. And we just keep saying... Like, we keep looking at each other being like, he doesn't stop. Like, because it's new. This is so new.
Carrie:We just became a toddler. We're like, oh, this is like gonna be the rest of our lives. And I have had a friend that's had... I think she's had three boys and she was saying, sometimes like you can't be friends with girl moms when you have all boys. She was like, not right now, not in this season because you're going to feel like a bad mom.
Carrie:And I was like, oh, that's actually so funny. But I get I get that because like just being a a boy mom is like, just takes a different level of understanding to your point. Like, I keep... My my husband keeps saying, he's a boy. He's a boy.
Carrie:I'm like, I know. But I I accidentally, like,
Carrie:am trying to subconsciously make him into, like, my behavior as a kid. I'm like, I was a little girl. Like, I... Yeah. Like, your daughter's like, I wanted to color.
Carrie:I wanted to play with my dolls. I liked Quiet Time. Yep. Not that every girl's the same, but like, just in general. It feels Yes.
Carrie:Feels like there's a calmness sometimes. And Yes. My best friend had a boy first and then she just had a little girl and she... Her daughter's like six weeks old, but she was like, like, she's so chill.
Carrie:She's so chill, it's just so different.
Monika:100%. And so, I think understanding those differences and accepting them that I'm constantly reminding myself, he's not trying to disobey me or disrespect me. Sometimes he's just not aware because he's just little and he's got a lot of energy.
Carrie:And he's the youngest on top of that, so it makes sense. Okay. So as we're speaking about him, you tell a bit of the story in this book. But I just think it's such a powerful testimony. Would you mind sharing about your adoption story with your son?
Carrie:And if you can, start all the way back with what God told you about the the name. Yes. It's such
Carrie:a good... I love a God story. I'm like, tell all the
Carrie:details, Monika.
Monika:It's one of my favorite stories to tell. So I would be honored to share it. So we had had my first daughter, Effie, she's now 12, but we had had her, and then we had my my second daughter, Cora. And then there was a little bit of a gap, you know, we were raising toddlers, and I remember one day I was, you know, my husband and I were hanging out late at night, and out of nowhere I just felt like the Lord speak to me and tell me that one day we would have a son named Isaiah. And I was really excited.
Monika:I, like, you know, go to my husband, I'm like, you'll never believe what the Lord just told me, like, he said we're gonna have a son named Isaiah. My husband, like, looks at me and he laughs because after two girls, like we had had our boy name picked out like for years. Like the boy name was gonna be Rowan James. Like we had had it all picked out. And so he was at first, he was like, well, I'm not like, even if we have a boy next, like I'm not gonna name him Isaiah.
Monika:Cause he works in ministry in the church and he thinks it's corny when pastors name their kids biblical names.
Carrie:And so we're not gonna be the pastor
Monika:who gives their kid Bible names. So he was immediately like, no. And so I just was like, okay, well, I'll just... Lord, I give this to you and you'll have to change his heart on the name. But I felt confident in what I had heard.
Monika:And so fast forward a few months and we ended up getting pregnant and I am convinced that this is the boy. This is Isaiah. And so when we ended up getting, the gender reveal, I was, like, shocked. Like, I... It was a girl.
Monika:And I was excited. I love having baby girls, but I was a little bit shocked because I'd really thought that this was gonna be our boy named Isaiah. And so just surrendered that and felt peace like, well, maybe I heard wrong, that's okay, maybe this wasn't from the Lord. And I had had really hard pregnancies, a lot of nausea and then I had C section births and so Oh,
Carrie:it's a lot.
Monika:Yeah, so it was a lot. And so during the final C section with Indy, they did say that they didn't recommend me having any more biological children because of the condition of my uterus, my uterine wall, sorry.
Carrie:So you had three C sections? I had three, yeah.
Monika:Wow. First was like an emergency and then I tried for a VBAC and we weren't able to, so it ended up being the three C section section birds. And so have our little girl Indy and I'm just super excited and just enjoying being a girl mom and just kind of put that out of my head, but it was always in the back of my mind that maybe God could do anything and maybe He would make possible for us to have another child, another boy. And at that time, like, adoption really wasn't in my head at all, to be honest. So years go by and and then my sister...
Monika:I come from a long line of, like, there's a lot of addiction in my family. My parents were divorced. They were both addicts. My siblings were in addiction as well, very tragically. We had lost my brother to a heroin overdose.
Monika:And in that season, my sister was really caught up in grappling with heroin addiction and she was not doing well. And so she had had some different children and her son, Julian, she had given birth to him and my mom was caring for him at the time. And the social workers were starting to get involved. And so they had called us and they had talked to us about getting involved. My mom was trying to avoid getting the social workers involved.
Monika:And so she had asked us if we would consider taking him in. Now at this time, I don't know if you know that Jim Gaffigan joke, the comedian where he's like, when parenting is like, when you have five kids and then someone hands you a baby, it's like you're drowning. Or we said, having five kids is like you're drowning and then someone hands you a baby. That's what it So that's how I felt like. I already had three kids under five and I really just felt like I was like already drowning a little bit in And my so I talked to my husband.
Monika:I was like, well, we need to pray about this because we need to see if this is what the Lord wants. Like, this is a lot to take on. And in the back of my head, I did feel like, and what if we're supposed to still have another one? Like, what if I'm supposed to get pregnant and then we have this, this new baby in our lives? And so we just really prayed about it and we sought wise counsel.
Monika:We took, quite a bit of time really considering and praying it and, getting the advice of our mentors and our pastors. And we ultimately came to the decision that like, yes, we are to care for the widows and the orphans and we really wanted to take him into our home. And so we made that decision moving forward and I never met him because he was in Pennsylvania and we were in California. We had never met him. All we knew was his name was Julian and he was eight months old.
Monika:So that was pretty much the extent of our knowledge. And so, I reached back out to my mom and we put a plan in place for him to come. She's gonna bring him out to us in California. And then she sends me a text message with an attachment with his birth certificate. And I'm in the car and I'm off to the side of the road and I opened the attachment and I looked down at the paper and it says, Julian Isaiah.
Monika:And I see the name Isaiah, and I just, like, immediately started weeping. And I just felt the holy spirit tell me, like, this was the Isaiah that I had spoke to you about all those years before.
Carrie:I And like...... Me.
Carrie:Just read it today. Still gets me.
Carrie:It's just... Wow. Like, I... I'm so... I'm...
Carrie:That is just such a beautiful beautiful beautiful example of God's love and the way He speaks to us too. Like, you know, I think it's really beautiful that you already had said yes. Like, that's some... That's also just your heart and your husband's heart being like, no, we should. We take in the orphans and and the widows and it's beautiful.
Carrie:But the fact that he then gave you the confirmation of like, oh, I'm in this. I've been in this since years ago and I spoke that. Wow.
Monika:Which I needed because like I said, it was a really big commitment and a big decision. And so I felt like what a gift from God to give me the confidence that, yes, like, this was gonna be hard. Like, there's no doubt about it. Like, this was gonna be a challenging season, but yes, God, you have called us to this and so you're gonna sustain us through it. And so it was this confidence that I needed.
Monika:So of course, I wasn't with my husband when this happened. I call him and I'm like, you're never gonna believe it. And he's like, what? And I tell him the story, he starts bawling. He just starts weeping and we knew it was God, it wasn't a mere coincidence because my family, they're not the kind of people who would pick a biblical name for a middle name.
Monika:It just really felt like just this confirmation from the Lord, this really sweet, beautiful story. And so we end up bringing him in and it was a wild season, I'm not gonna lie. Like we had four kids, six and under. It a lot and I was working at the time and we were renovating our home and it was just like, I talk about this more in the book, but it was just a season of really having to like rely on the Lord and His strength. But there was so much good.
Monika:And one of the beautiful things that came out of that story is during that season after we had taken him in, my sister, she was really not doing well, struggling in her addiction. And she ended up going into a psychosis and going into a hospital. And during that time we just really began praying like, God, we don't know what the best outcome here is like, but Lord, would you just do a work in her life and in her heart? And we just began praying, we gathered people from the church to pray and we just began interceding for her and just trusting God to do what only He could do. And through a series of miraculous events, she ended up getting clean and giving her life to Jesus.
Monika:And she ended up getting baptized. My husband actually had the honor of baptizing her just a few years ago. And she lives locally here now. She gets to be in her son's life.
Carrie:That's amazing.
Monika:And it's just been this beautiful redemptive story of like, man, God He's so good and He still works miracles and He still heals and restores our families. And so that has been just the greatest testimony of my life. I'm so grateful.
Carrie:So beautiful. And the fact that she gets to be in His life and you get to be in His life, it's just, man, that's just a... I don't know. I think so often we as Christians, we we hear... My sister and I were actually just talking about this.
Carrie:Like, how many things that the Bible says that the early church did are we actually doing? Yeah. We love to walk... We love to talk the talk, but how many of us are walking the walk? And I think adoption is just a beautiful example of that.
Carrie:And even just praying for salvation for your sister and believing for those miracles, you guys are just, like, living... A living testament of, you know, the goodness of God, and and your faithfulness is just, like, really inspiring, truly.
Monika:Thank you. It was... You know, I will say there were seasons where, like, I was like, Lord, I don't like, I don't really have faith for this. Like, I felt like I was like, Lord, I don't... I shared this in the book.
Monika:Didn't even have a mustard seed of faith. Like, I was like, God, this is, barely a speck. Like, I have barely a speck of faith to offer you, but I'm gonna give it to you anyway and just pray and believe. And there's times when we pray for people and we don't see miracles. Sadly, I had lost my father to alcoholism and liver failure.
Monika:I'd lost my brother to an overdose. And so I had seen just the way that just sin and depravity can just take people's lives and it's so sad and there was so much grief, but then to see like, wow, God, but you can heal and restore. And so even though that was their story, what a gift that He moved miraculous in my sister's life. And it actually like increased and bolstered my faith to believe that for other people. And now I'm like, I'm excited to pray for for people when in the worst of circumstances where it feels like they're never gonna break free.
Monika:I'm like, no, God can
Carrie:do it. God can do it. You've seen it. Yeah. Oh, that's so beautiful.
Carrie:How do your girls love... Like, do they love having a little brother? So how old were they when you adopted him?
Monika:So my oldest would have been six, four, and then two. So my my daughter, Indy, my third born, her and Isaiah are only twelve months apart. So they're like Irish twins.
Carrie:Oh, that's so cute.
Monika:And it's very cute. And it was... Like I said, it was very wild. Like, there's parts... I feel like parts of that season that I don't even remember.
Monika:Like, I'd I'd have to look back at photos to remember it because I was so sleepy.
Carrie:I can't even I was just gonna say,
Carrie:I can't even imagine having three girls those ages and then saying, yes, we're just gonna... Because when you're pregnant, you do have time to prepare. You know what I mean? You're like, okay, let's do this. Let's get pregnant.
Carrie:You have time. You've got nine months at least. But when you just get a call like that and you don't have... Like, it's just it's just really.
Monika:Oh, yes. Then the mamas will understand this. So right after he came to live with us, he cut four new teeth. And he decided he was gonna get all his teeth as soon as he came to live with us. And he was...
Monika:Oh, that poor baby. He was just crying every night, all night. And I was like, don't I know if he's crying because of the transition or if he's crying because of his teeth. Was like a truly, and again, I would look back to like, but God told us this is our son. And so God is with us and He is going to just supply all that we need to get through this challenging time.
Monika:And so it really was a grace.
Carrie:So beautiful. So your faith is beautiful. I love that story. I love so many stories you share. I want you to tell us about Ever With You, your book.
Carrie:Just what was your reason for writing this? What's your heart behind the book?
Monika:Yeah. So it was actually born a little bit out of that season that I was just sharing where I found myself kind of like running on cortisol and caffeine, just barely making it through the day. And I found myself one day I had just gotten off a Zoom call because I was also working at the time at the church as a communications manager.
Carrie:That's so so much.
Carrie:It was so much. Don't recommend. Super mom, that's crazy.
Monika:Don't recommend it. And then we had started homeschooling because during COVID all the school shut down. And so I found myself surrounded in this sea of children and my school was shut down, my kids were there and the church had a lot of real practical needs in terms of communicating everything that was going on during COVID and the gatherings. And there was just a... I had to revamp the whole website.
Monika:It was just like this onslaught of things. And so one morning I'm getting off a Zoom call and I realized like every meeting that I had just added more items to like my already full plate. And so I go into the kitchen, I realized I haven't eaten yet today. I had like my toddler Indy, she's holding my leg. She's like, mommy, me.
Monika:I got, the four year old's asking a question, like the dog is barking, like there's just like chaos. And all of a sudden the room just started like spinning and spinning. And I had to grip the counter because I thought I was either gonna throw up or pass out. And so I go to the couch and I lay there and I ended up getting sick and started this really long bout for several weeks of vertigo off and on. That was a result of this, like kind of the anxiety of the season and how it was affecting my central nervous system and the overstimulation.
Monika:And so I realized in that season, like if I don't change some things in a really big way, like I'm not gonna survive this season. And so it was a chance for me to really reorient and reprioritize. And I think sometimes with the people listening and the place that I was in, it was feeling like, how do I rest? Because I can't quit my job because we were in California, it's very expensive to live there. We counted on my income.
Monika:So I was like, well, I can't quit my job. I can't quit my kids. I don't know what to do about Yeah,
Carrie:it's like I gotta drop something but what gives?
Monika:And I feel like... And then a lot of times when you're in that place, you're like, well, what's gonna solve it? Okay. You know what I need is I need a vacation or I need a spa day or I need a Netflix binge or a glass of wine or a bowl of ice cream or you just like, you just want something, anything to provide you some sense of like temporary relief.
Carrie:Yes.
Monika:And what the Lord was inviting me into is like the rest that I was desperate for was actually found in Him and in His presence. And so He just brought me on this long journey of encountering Him in my everyday life and that it wasn't like out there was not gonna fix me but it was actually in here and it was encountering Him through prayer and through spiritual disciplines. And so I really like it just grew my... I'd already been passionate about prayer but that season it just like really solidified the intimacy with God that I during prayer. So it's just all the stories and all the, I always say like the lessons I had to learn the hard way through my personal journey.
Monika:And my hope is that women read it and just feel that they're not alone and they feel encouraged that God actually, like, will supply all their needs and he will meet them right where they are.
Carrie:Well, I felt that when I read it. This is just... I kinda told you before we start recording, but this is just a book for me. And when I when I say that, I mean, everybody has a different style that they love. Right?
Carrie:Like, people are like, oh, I love a book that does this
Carrie:or does this. I love a book where I read it and I feel like I'm really getting to know the author. Like, you... There's such a personal aspect. I feel like it's, like, kind of testimony after testimony in every chapter, whether they're small.
Carrie:Like, to me, that what you just said is a testimony itself of, like, the Lord met me in vertigo and, like, change every single chapter. I feel like I'm getting to know this other... This different part of you in this different season of your life. And yet it feels so universal where you're speaking to this theme of like, let's talk about order in our household. Let's talk about different kinds of prayer.
Carrie:Let's talk about taking rest or whatever that looks like. Anyway, I just love books like that. So when I was reading it, I'm like, every chapter, like, yay, I'm gonna hear a little bit about her personal experience. And also for moms listening, you're a mom. And so I think so much of it was just relating to me and resonating with me because though I don't yet have four kids, I relate to moving across the country.
Carrie:I relate to being in the the trenches of what get... I can't drop any things. I'm carrying so many hats, all that stuff. And so I think just you talking about just that intimacy with Jesus in a season I really can relate to is just really refreshing. So I appreciate that you incorporated so many personal stories and it wasn't just...
Carrie:It's not just a book of how to, but it's very much just your stories, your testimonies, your, like you said, lessons you had to learn that hopefully you can like share with others. I love so many things you get into in the book. One thing that I just haven't really seen a lot of people write about that I loved was kind of when you were talking about the idea of like the Lord told you... What did He say about like order? Like, you need to put your house in order or something?
Carrie:What was like... Tell me a little bit about that because that intrigued me, that idea.
Monika:This idea of getting your house in order. So it came after we had moved from California to Tennessee. And I had already been writing and speaking that time. And so I really felt again like we were coming to our promised land and I had quit my job. And so I felt like, I'm finally gonna have time to write and to speak and to do all the things I feel called to do in addition to mothering, of course.
Monika:And it was funny because we moved Tennessee and my life I felt like wasn't just shambles. It was so bad. And we of course, we just got in over our heads with renovating. So we bought this home that had an unfinished basement, which to me was like my blank canvas of all the things that I wanted to do. I love interior design.
Monika:And so I was like, we're gonna do this and this and this. And we had sold what we thought was our forever home in California. And so I was like determined to make this house our home and bit off more than I could chew. Because at this time, again, we had four young children and a puppy. And a puppy.
Monika:Again, do not repeat my mistakes, guys. Just say no. So I'm in this season and I just began praying because we were struggling and I was feeling isolated and lonely. And I was like, just praying through the season and I just felt the Lord like very clearly in prayer say, get your house in order. And at the time we were homeschooling and I like I wanted to be one of those routine driven like homeschool moms who just, they have a schedule and a plan and their kids listen, everything goes.
Monika:And that just wasn't, it wasn't working. And so I had to kind of lay down my expectation of what I thought the day was gonna look like with the kids and instead kind of create rhythms and routines that fit into my actual life. And so it looked like laying down some of the things like, okay, we're gonna stop with the renovations. We're gonna finish this and then we're gonna stop. We don't need anything that was gonna add extra chaos to our days.
Monika:And I just wanted to bring order into my life because at the time, I was driving around, this is so embarrassing to admit, I was driving around on an expired driver's license because I just could not get my life together to go to the DMV after we moved here
Carrie:because it was just like, you literally...
Carrie:So So mine's not expired, but I have not been to the DMV yet. And I keep
Carrie:being like, I need to go. When I read that, I was like, okay. Monika's me.
Monika:Oh, yeah. I literally I get that. Pray, like, please don't let me get pulled over. Please don't let me get pulled over. Like, I'm driving on an expired license.
Monika:And I'm just... It was a hot mess. And so I really felt like, here I was and I'm like, you're praying, God open doors for ministry and for career stuff. And I was working on my book proposal, Lord open door. And I just felt like it was this gentle invitation.
Monika:Like I was looking out here for all these things I was praying for. And God was like, let's start in your home. Like we're gonna start here in your home. Let's get this in order. And by God's grace, because I could not do the things I'm doing now with podcasting and writing and speaking and the books.
Monika:Like I couldn't do any of that if I didn't first get my house in order. And so it has to come first. And so we did, and I share some of the practical how tos that I did in that season, but God is a God of order not chaos. And He invites us to partner with Him. Again, it's not about perfectionism.
Monika:It's not about like having a perfect home and a detailed schedule. And I think we make it into like pretty calendars and organizers. Yeah,
Carrie:make it like aesthetic.
Monika:Yeah, it doesn't have to be aesthetic. Like my organization, my life is not aesthetic. It's not like I don't post about it. It's just what works for my life and my family. And I think that comes when we can just partner with the Holy Spirit and discern what's right for that season.
Carrie:Yeah. And you mentioned something like pray about what that looks like for you, what needs to get in, what needs to go from chaos to order. And I love that concept. And I don't know when I... I just reading that, I think so many of us as moms, you're right.
Carrie:Like we have all these things out here that we wanna we wanna do and we wanna accomplish and we wanna figure out, but our day to day feels chaotic and it's like starting there. I just think that's so practical for moms who are listening like, okay, today, like, Lord, how do I make today something of order? And yeah, maybe it is cleaning your house, but maybe it's not today. You know, it doesn't have to be that. It could be, yeah, finances or communication or like any anything.
Carrie:I just really like that concept. I also... There was a piece in the book. I'm gonna grab it from my little easel. There was a page that I really liked that I'm gonna read.
Carrie:And it's in the chapter, What Mary Knew, which I love, sitting at Jesus' feet as opposed to just striving. I just... This spoke to me. I don't even know where I want to go with this. I just need to read it, but I love this.
Carrie:So Ecclesiastes four:four says, I saw that all toil and all achievement springs from one person's envy of of another. This too is meaningless, a chasing after the wind. And you say, there's a lot of wind chasing in our world. We chase money, success, accolades, influence, followers. Sometimes these pursuits are fueled by good intentions like purpose, service, impact, a desire to bring light and hope.
Carrie:But oftentimes, if we're not careful, they're driven by insecurity, greed, envy, fear of missing out, hunger for significance, or a need to prove ourselves. The subtle subtext of our culture whispers constantly, do more, be more, have more, you're missing out, you're falling behind. So we try to keep up, but at what cost? Jesus says in Matthew sixteen twenty six, what good is it to gain the whole world yet forfeit your soul? What if all we're chasing after is just wind?
Carrie:What if we've been fed a lie, one we eagerly swallowed, Oh, out of breath. Only to discover it was all empty calories. It promised to fill us, but left us hungry and hollow. There is only one who can satisfy that ache in us and it's there at His feet that we finally find what we've been truly craving all along, more of Him. I just love that.
Carrie:Like, this whole chapter on sitting at Jesus' feet, it's a theme that my friends and I have been talking about a lot that, like, our generation, we want it all, and we want it all now. Yep. And I mean, to your point, when you were home with four babies, and I know your kids are still young, but when you were like... You'd freshly adopted your son, you're not... You can't you can't do all of this Mhmm.
Carrie:All at once, but we we want all of it. And we're not we're not willing to go to the one thing that's really going to actually satisfy because we're too busy chasing all of the things. And I think our culture, even Christian culture, unfortunately, really emphasizes this. Anyway, I just I just love these I just think they're really impactful. Ladies, if you're watching the book, don't know.
Carrie:That just really soaked to me.
Monika:Thank you. That's one of my favorite chapters. I've had to live every word because if I'm honest, I am a naturally ambitious and driven person. I am a high capacity person. It's really easy for me to take on a lot and not realize until I'm drowning that I took on too much.
Monika:And so, yeah, I share that because I've truly had to live out and learn every word. And I walk through that, The different things that we do to try to earn that validation or that approval from other people or even me growing up in a really broken home and a really broken family, the temptation was to prove myself, to prove I'm not white trash and to prove that I can amount to something that I can go to college and I can do this and I can achieve something. And what the Lord had to show me is yes, like there might be a calling on my life, but I'm not gonna go fulfill the calling like to gain a sense of self worth or purpose because like, He already calls me worthy. Like He loves me, He went to the cross for me, He died for me. And so my worth and my validation can come only from Him.
Monika:And it's a lesson I've had to continually learn time and time again. So it shifts, again, you might end up doing some of the same things you feel called to do, but it's your heart. It's just where it's coming from. It's not to prove anything or to strive for anything, but it's just in partnership with with his spirit.
Carrie:Yeah. That's so good. You also mentioned... I forget what... Who you were quoting, but I really liked the idea of there are some glass balls and some plastic balls in our lives.
Carrie:Yeah. It's kind of what we were talking about. I just... I don't know. I've just had this impression lately that so many moms are like, it's too much.
Carrie:I'm just maxed out. It's just capacity. It's just there's none. And I really liked that that image that you shared about you don't want to drop the glass balls of our lives. We don't want to drop our marriage.
Carrie:We don't want to drop our children and our relationship with them. Those could chatter. We don't want that. Those are important to to really steward. But then there's plastic balls.
Carrie:Like, your example was forgetting that your son needed a white t shirt at school.
Carrie:And that's me every day. Like, I literally... I don't even know what I I don't even know what I've been doing lately,
Carrie:but not... Things are are just off. And I'm like, oh my gosh. Like, I totally missed the boat. I had a sweet friend text me last...
Carrie:Couple weeks ago, and she was like, hey. Like, we're gonna we're gonna start dinner. Like, should we wait for you? I was cooking dinner standing in my kitchen, completely forgot it was her birthday. I do...
Carrie:Like, her party was happening in another And I was like, oh my gosh. This is... Now, I actually was sick with the flu at the time, which made it even worse. I was like, I shoulda just told her I was... I should've just checked the calendar anyway.
Carrie:But we all we all have this moment. But those are the plastic balls.
Carrie:I, like,
Carrie:beat myself up for a second, and then I was like, okay. Like, now I look at that as... And I like that that idea of, like, that was a plastic ball. Like, it's okay. She understands.
Carrie:But there are things that we just wanna make sure we hold to. Yes. Just the things that really matter.
Monika:Yes. That came from a Nora Roberts interview and where she had been asked about how to juggle things. And she said, we have to understand when you're juggling that some balls are glass and some are plastic. And it was just one of those things that stood out to me. And I think what we have to understand is that like the glass balls in your life are different than maybe the glass balls in my life.
Monika:And so we can't compare and we really have to discern again, like with the Holy Spirit help and with a trusted friend or a mentor or pastor, like what are those things in our life and be really clear about them because otherwise when things drop, you'll internalize it as a failure and you'll beat yourself up and you'll spiral over it. And so it's really helped me to understand that, yeah, I dropped the ball but I don't need to beat myself up or internalize it as a failure. I can just move on and give myself grace and apologize and do my best next time. But yeah, we don't have to beat ourselves up and we do. We moms, we carry so
Carrie:much. We do. We beat ourselves up so much. Like I said, today, I was like, am I just not doing a good job? I was like, what am I saying?
Carrie:I need to stop. I'm trying. If you're having those thoughts, we're on the right track. The Lord is with us in that. I also really appreciated you talking about community in this book.
Carrie:I obviously just moved. So for for me, community has been on the forefront of our minds. We've been grateful to actually move here with some of our community. Like, some of our best friends moved here with us. My sister moved here.
Carrie:It's been really sweet. But I know that so many so many parents, so many moms, when you have kids, you just feel like community goes by the wayside. Or you're in a place where you haven't even built it. So either you're falling out of community or you're like, we moved somewhere. We're now in family mode.
Carrie:We're not gonna make
Monika:it to church. We're not gonna have that.
Carrie:So for women that are listening that feel like, okay, when people talk about community, that sounds nice. How do I get that? I appreciated that you talked about like, it's something you have to build, you know? It's not something you just walk into a perfect community. You're like, oh, I just, you know, when my husband and I were engaged, we really wanted...
Carrie:We were living in LA. He was about to move back to LA and we're getting married. And I specifically remember us having a conversation because of someone wise that had said something similar about you have to build it. We were like, man, I just really wish there was like... It's before we found the church ended up being home for us in LA.
Carrie:And we're like, I just really wish there was just an awesome Bible study that was married couples. And it's just like every week. I just really want that. And we had this romanticized version of some small group. And then eventually we just started it and ended up going for five years.
Carrie:And it it was just funny that I was like, oh, I had this picture in my mind of like this perfect community, but actually just grew from like three people showing up with Bibles and became this thing. And that's what was actually there. And it just took a lot of like stewarding and growing. And it took our our effort to say we're gonna start this. We're not just gonna drop into the perfect community.
Carrie:We're gonna build it from the ground up with friends. So anyway, like, could you speak to that? Because you
Monika:guys have moved.
Carrie:You said you left Orlando, went to California, now California here. Like, you guys have done this a few times.
Monika:It is so hard. I first acknowledge how challenging it is. There is a meme that says, like, the greatest miracle Jesus performed is having 12 friends in
Carrie:his thirties. And I was like... I never thought I like that. I was like, that
Monika:is so true. Like, it is so hard having friends, especially when you're in the little years and
Carrie:you have,
Monika:like nap schedules and you're busy. And so I think, first of all, just acknowledging like, yes, this is really hard. And the truth, the inconvenient truth is that it's gonna cost us something. It's gonna cost time, effort, mental energy, like making plans. There is a cost that comes to it but I can promise that it will be worth it.
Monika:And so for me, what that's looked like is like not waiting to be invited but being the inviter. And man, it's hard because rejection. You risk inviting someone and they can't do it or they blow you off. It's hard and uncomfortable, being the person who says, you know what, I have acknowledged, I'm a little more extroverted than other people I meet and I love hospitality. And so, I'll be the one to go first and to open up my home and invite people over.
Monika:And so I think it's really easy to wait for you to just stumble upon the community of our dreams. But there's one thing that my former pastor Ian Simkin said, and he's like community isn't found, it's forged. And so you have to sometimes forge a path, like you have to find a way to meet people, to make friends, to build community, and there is a cost involved and it's hard and uncomfortable and everyone has a season. And so again, you'd be honest with the season that you're in and the capacity that you have. But for me it was like, well, what is a really simple sustainable way to build community?
Monika:And for us it was like, okay, well I don't mind cooking dinner or I can do takeout. So we'll just open up our home. Like it's chaotic, it's loud. I have four kids. Like it's not perfect.
Monika:It's probably messy, but you know what? Like we can order pizza and hang out on a Friday night, invite a family over or just make burgers and hot dogs. Like simple is sustainable. And so I think a lot of people avoid opening their homes because they're waiting for, I just, after I do the renovation, then I'll invite people over.
Carrie:Totally.
Monika:After I need a new couch and then I'll
Carrie:invite Once we get that patio furniture.
Carrie:Once we get the
Monika:patio furniture, like we're always waiting for like this other thing. And if it never comes and we miss out on just the joy of community in the meantime. And so it doesn't have to be perfect. People honestly don't want perfection. They want connection.
Monika:And if they come into your perfectly curated home, sometimes it actually has the opposite effect where now they're in their head, they're judging, Oh, my house doesn't look this clean. And so you think that that's what you're waiting for to have community, but really it's not necessary. And sometimes what I found is it's even hurtful. Like I will go through the links to clean my home and then people like, Oh wow, how do you keep your house so clean?
Carrie:And be like, Oh no.
Monika:I'm like, Oh, I cleaned it for you. Love a clean home, but I cleaned it for you.
Carrie:That's just
Monika:a reminder for people. It doesn't have to be perfect and find what is simple and sustainable. Churches is a great place because they also have childcare. So I know my church and many other churches, they have usually some kind of study during the week and you can go and you can let your kid play with other kids in the childcare and you can go and sit and have adult conversation with other moms.
Carrie:Yeah, that's super practical.
Monika:That was a lifeline for me in the little years is joining like mom groups, mom meetups, going to the gym and letting my kids play while I like... You know, and I would meet people in the sauna or in the workout space. So I think at some point you have to just like get out of your comfort zone and just try.
Carrie:Yeah. Just try. So true. It's also when it comes to hospitality and hosting, we love to do that. And we've...
Carrie:We kind of forced ourselves to to learn over the years. Like this is before even we had my son. But we would just... We decided when we started that Bible study I told you about, we really felt like... Because you lived in LA.
Carrie:It's a city where people really need to know the love of the Lord. Mhmm. And we would invite people that were far in their faith and also that were just open and curious and weren't weren't following Jesus at the time. And we just felt like God put it on our heart consistency. And we decided we're gonna be the door that's open every Monday.
Carrie:Mhmm. And with that comes the humility and uncomfortability of, like, there were times where people showed up and we were coming home from the airport with suitcases and we were, like, walking in after them. We're like,
Carrie:our house is a disaster, but come on in. Like, we'll unlock the door.
Carrie:Like, and anyway, I say that because I'm sure so many moms are listening and they're like, okay. Look at my house right now. Like, I can't have a friend over. And you can. Like, we...
Carrie:It... And it is uncomfortable. I still... It's uncomfortable every time a friend comes over and I'm like, don't look at my... I had toys out when you walked in.
Carrie:I was like, whatever.
Monika:And I didn't notice. Didn't do it
Carrie:at all. Because you're
Carrie:a mom. We don't care.
Carrie:But I just... I love that reminder of just like... Also the gift of hospitality. Well, we don't all have to have the gift of hospitality to host. We shall host and can also pray for the gift of hospitality.
Carrie:But I used to think the gift of hospitality or those that were gifted at it were people with a perfectly curated home. Oh my gosh. They... I'm sure they have the gift of hospitality because they have a beautiful farm table and like a chic white home, which we love. But you start to realize that actually, like there was a time where my friend who was a super type a mom whose house was always perfect, they moved.
Carrie:And we had a Sabbath dinner at their house where it was like, we all just had cardboard... Or not cardboard. We had card tables set up and we all got pizza and stuff. And we're sitting on the floor and I'm like, and she's just as good of a host. Just...
Carrie:It's like it's not about it being perfect. And I love that. Do your kids enjoy community? Like, is that something they notice they're old enough now probably to like appreciate it?
Monika:Yes. So my husband and all of my children except for Isaiah are raging extroverts and Oh. I'm pretty extroverted, but like they are a whole other level. So
Carrie:They probably need it.
Monika:They love it. And so we ended up... We're not homeschooling anymore. They're in school now because they're so extroverted and they love community and they love getting out of the house. And so it has been a sweet season of ministry and doing life with people and going to LifeGroup, but they're always like, oh, when's our next LifeGroup?
Monika:When are we going to church again? When are we going here? So cute. Yes. They're
Carrie:See, look forward to that phase. I always say, like, we love community. We wanna do that with our kids. And, like, I get excited about the idea of our kids seeing that and, like, knowing that they're raised where it's like we're in a village. And yeah, there's church on Sunday and there's friends coming over.
Carrie:So, so good. Is there anything else you want to mention about the book that we haven't before we anything else you'd like? It's out now. It is available. It was released last month.
Carrie:So congratulations on that.
Monika:Thank you so
Carrie:So this is your first
Monika:It's been a labor of love and I am just so excited that it's out in the world and in people's hands.
Carrie:And you write this and you also write fiction,
Carrie:which I did not know. I love that.
Monika:I love that. So I started, it's funny, I actually started writing fiction when my book Proposal Forever With You was out on submission. And I had just started feeling like kind of discouraged and you face a lot of rejection as a writer and a lot of closed doors. And so I had started working on this project that I had previously worked on and then kind of shelved it for a little while. And then I came back to it and started working on it when that book was out on submission.
Monika:And it was such a joy to write. And it was just a great distraction too, for my book being out on submission. And so that will come out. I have a two book deal for two rom coms coming out with So Rebel in '20 it's totally different style, but also like if you enjoy my personal stories, I think I weave some of that into the fiction and it's some of it's inspired by my real life events. So it's just
Carrie:super fun.
Carrie:Well, I
Carrie:really enjoyed this writing, so I'm I'm sure I'm gonna enjoy that too. Also, who doesn't love a rom com?
Monika:Yes.
Carrie:That's so fun.
Carrie:Especially It's fun.
Carrie:A clean rom com, which I'm assuming it is because Yes.
Monika:Goodness, we were at
Carrie:the bookstore the other day and my sister was with a a friend of hers and we picked up a book that looked cute and she goes, don't read that one. We're like, what? It's called like Flower Shop. Like, it looks so cute. Like, whatever it was.
Carrie:And goodness. So I'm assuming that yours will be a pure hearted read, I appreciate.
Monika:It's wholesome and clean. And I had that same experience where I bought this cute little book from Target and it had the cute cover and it looked like a Hallmark book. Yes. Oh my goodness. I had to throw it away.
Monika:I was like, this is not what I expected. I was blushing.
Carrie:Was like, so... Yes.
Carrie:Just trying to enjoy a sweet rom com. Like, I'm a try to...
Carrie:Yeah. Yeah. Gonna go there.
Monika:So that's a whole other podcast episode, but but... Yes. So that's... They're sweet and wholesome and
Carrie:just fun.
Carrie:I love it. It's so fun. It's so fun.
Monika:Yeah.
Carrie:Okay. The last question I love to ask everybody is just what would be your best piece of advice for a new mom?
Monika:Oh, I love this question. There are so many things, but I was praying on my way over here about that question. And the thing that that came to mind is like, there is a lot of noise in our culture right now. Like, there's a lot of opinions on how to raise babies and there's a lot of different theological interpretations. There's just a lot of biblical interpretations.
Monika:There's a lot of noise and a lot of opinions. And just to illustrate this point, there was one day, this was a couple years ago and I was on social media, and there's this video and it was talking about how you should never give your kids an allowance. You should only pay them for chores called commissions and you should only give your kids commissions so that they associate money with work. And I was like, that's a decent concept. I like that.
Monika:The very next video said the exact opposite. It said, you should never pay your kids for housework. They should do that as just a part of being a part of the house. Like, this is just how they contribute. You should give them an allowance instead, never pay them for chores.
Monika:Like, okay. And so I literally, I was like, this is hilarious. Like, this is... How can we be a mom? Like in this day and age because there's so many differing opinions, so much different noise.
Monika:And so my encouragement for new moms is like, just be really guarded about who you let in. Like you can follow all the parenting accounts, but just understand that there's so many different opinions and some of them they're all compelling. They all have research, they have just different ways of why this is what works and it can be really confusing. And so for me, what that cultivated in my heart was like, I felt paralyzed. I felt like, well, I'm gonna mess up my kids somehow.
Monika:I felt paralyzed to make parenting decisions because of all the differing opinions. And so I got to this point with my husband where I was like, okay, me and you like with the Lord and with a few trusted mentors and a few trusted resources and parenting books, that's it, that's all I can let in because otherwise I just feel really confused about the right way to do things. And as a perfectionist and as a mom, it was paralyzing for me. And so if you're a new mom listening, my encouragement is to just be mindful of all the different views on things, all the different interpretations of the right way to do things. And at the end of the day, go to the word of God, like go to trusted friends and let them speak into your life.
Monika:Because otherwise you're going to feel very confused so much of the time.
Carrie:Oh my gosh. That... That's so needed. Like, my girls need to hear that and I need to hear that. We're all new moms.
Carrie:Yes. Because it is... It's so... Like, when you're saying it like freezes you or like almost paralyzes it does. You're like, okay, I'm gonna...
Carrie:This person's telling me I don't need to breastfeed. This person's saying it's the most important thing. It's the core value. Person's saying, who cares as long as they're this? It's more important about your marriage.
Carrie:Like, there are so many things that my friends and I are just like, it's too much.
Monika:It is.
Carrie:It's too much. I love what you're saying. Just your husband and, you know, a trusted, if it's a trusted mentor or if it's your, if it's a parent or whoever it is, your mom, just like go back to the basics Mhmm. And drown out the rest. And I I do think, like you touched on, I love I love the idea of just just pray about the voices you let in.
Carrie:I know ironically this is Podcast and you're choosing to listen. Mhmm. But truly, if this is not the right voice, don't listen. Like, I really feel like for moms, I've really noticed that. I had to really protect my heart in pregnancy too and be like, I need to listen to the right voices.
Carrie:Yes. Speaking life over parenthood and motherhood and pregnancy even and all those things. So just don't be afraid to guard your heart and your algorithm from like all of it because it's too much. Yeah. That's a whole word.
Carrie:Guard your
Monika:heart and your
Carrie:algorithm. Your algorithm.
Carrie:Lead the blood of Jesus over your algorithm.
Carrie:Gosh. Okay. Monika, you're just so lovely. I'm so excited that we got to meet and just that you got to share about this book and I know it's gonna inspire and encourage so many people, women, I think moms. So thank you so much for being on.
Carrie:I really appreciate it.
Monika:Thank you. This was so fun, such a joy.