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On Naturally High you’ll receive transformational tools and hear inspirational stories that will guide you into holistically healing trauma in every corner of your life. You deserve to invoke your inner healer. I'm so glad you're here!
Jeanne: [00:00:06] Welcome to Naturally High, the podcast for those ready to transform their lives through holistic healing and empowered self-discovery. I'm your host, Jeanne Foot, a lifelong learner trained in addiction, mental health, and trauma recovery, and your guide on this journey. On this show, you'll find transformational tools, inspirational stories designed to help you break through addiction, trauma, and adversity of any kind. In a world overflowing with information, we focus on real change, understanding the why behind your patterns, and forging new pathways to wellness. Join me at theRecoveryConcierge.com and subscribe so you never miss an episode. Together, let's change not just the conversation around mental health and addiction, but how we treat it and how you treat yourself.
Jeanne: [00:00:57] Hello everybody, and welcome back to Naturally High. I am just thrilled to be presenting Daniela Tilbrook. So Daniela Tilbrook is a trauma survivor, coach, and author of Not My Shame: Healing Childhood Trauma. In her debut book, she shares her deeply personal journey of surviving a decade of childhood sexual abuse, breaking years of silence and taking the courageous steps to heal and reclaim her voice. Through her coaching and practice, Spiritual Survivors, Daniela guides others on their own journey from trauma to empowerment and inner peace. She is currently writing her next book, Post-traumatic Wisdom, exploring how the deepest wounds can become sources of strength, insight, and wholeness. I just have to say that this is one of the most refreshing opportunities I've had to talk about childhood trauma, and the gifts and glimmers that come from it. If you can actually even put them in the same sentence, because no one signs up for this journey willingly. But Daniela offers such a beautiful way of explaining the light and the darkness, in a sense that it allows you to see that there is life beyond our pain, our adversities, our challenges and our abuse. And I couldn't be more proud of Daniela and what she's accomplished and how this will help so many other people. So let’s dive in. So do you want to tell me a little bit about why you chose to write the book and how it became Not My Shame?
Daniela: [00:02:30] Thank you so much for having me on your podcast and yeah, good to see you again. The title came because I have spent so much of my life in shame, kind of trying to protect this secret, trying to protect my family, and it's just taken a really long time to kind of realize that it wasn't my shame. And I'd been holding on to this for so long and that kind of responsibility, or I felt that responsibility to kind of protect everyone with my silence. It was that kind of message, I think, you know, Not My Shame. Perhaps something, you know, if I'd come across that sort of earlier in my journey, that would have helped me
Jeanne: [00:04:05] 100%, because these are the secrets that we carry so close to our heart, right? We think like, if only you knew me. And I think there's many people out there who could relate with, if only you knew me, you may not like me. Because I lived with that shame inside me for many years, thinking that if they really knew the truth about me, definitely wouldn't like me. And I was so concerned about being attached to something. Because when we're so disconnected from our truth, our integrity, our life, our people who have violated us, the ones who are supposed to keep us safe, I think it really is hard to know where you are and who are your advocates? Right? And so you lose yourself in that. So I wanted to talk to you a little bit about what propelled you to share your story, because you probably contemplated for years, I would imagine, as should I, shouldn't I? And what propelled you? What made you do that?
Daniela: [00:05:00] The seed was planted about 20 years ago after I was bullied at work. And I remember wanting to write a book about bullying at work, and I kind of started it. And that voice kind of came in like, who are you to write a book? You'll never finish a book. No one's going to read it. You know, I just stopped myself with that kind of voice in my head. But over the years, there was this, like, quiet whisper, like, write a book. Write a book. And what was really annoying was, it just, that whisper wouldn't go away. Like I tried to ignore the call and it just kind of kept, you know, whispering at me. And eventually I think, yeah, I thought, I'm going to write this book. And I was fortunate enough to meet a book coach as well, and that I really resonated with. And I think once I had that kind of accountability as well, because, yeah, writing a book is, you know, a long-term project. So it was great to have that help as well. But there was that kind of whisper for a really long time. And also part of the problem was when I wasn't doing the book, there was this kind of low level kind of, oh, I really should be doing this. It just felt like something I really wanted to get out into the world.
Jeanne: [00:05:07] I know that feeling because I haven't taken action on it yet. And I always say the whispers become a roar, like eventually. Sometimes you, if you don't answer the call, you'll get these nudges and you'll get these insights, and they start as whispers, as you say. Then they become a roar. And there are people who don't answer the call, whatever that call is for them. It could be about leaving a relationship. It could be about taking a new job, whatever it is. And then suddenly they have a crisis, right? And they get hit by, what I say, a two-by-four over the head. Right? Boom. Like wake up. We're all different and we all have our unique time frame. So I do understand that, like, yeah, who am I to tell this? Who am I to do this? And I think, you know, one of the things about when we start to really step into our own integrity and our truth, is that we recognize how the human essence is so similar. We're more alike than different, right? In terms of who am I to do this, am I enough? Who's shame is this anyway? Like some of those things that we question in our own self inquiry process, we really are more the same, but we don't talk about them, so we suffer in silence. So for those of you who know me, you know that I'm all about trauma, all about finding different ways. But you may have gathered by now what the book may be about, because it's Not My Shame. But can you just tell us at a very high level what the book is about? And then we can dive into some of the things about the book, because I absolutely loved it.
Daniela: [00:06:28] So part one of the book is The Dark, and that's my story and that's kind of memoir style, but I've tried to write it in, like a quite a fast-paced kind of memoir.
Jeanne: [00:06:38] It is fast paced, I have to say. It's riveting. I looked at the book for weeks before I picked it up, thinking, I don't know if I want to read this, Not My Shame, because I didn't know what the hell it was going to trigger in me. But when I opened, it was like an action-packed, fast-paced book. I was like, almost read half the book in one night. So I really encourage you, for those of you who are listening, it's a really beautiful read.
Daniela: [00:06:58] I mean, that's fantastic feedback to get. And also some of the readers that weren't necessarily like my target audience, really, I don't know if enjoyed is the right word, but really kind of got through that first half, like quite quickly because they were like wanting to know what happens next. And the difficulty also was to write it in a sort of non-triggering way as much as I could, and I took out, in some of the drafts, I took out all the details of the abuse. So I did more of a show don't tell approach, because I don't think the details would necessarily serve anyone, really. Me and my book coach kind of talked about that so that, that's all any details have been taken out. I've really tried to make it as non-triggering as is possible with a subject like this, because it's not to cause harm to the reader. And on the other hand, I also wanted to show the severity of what this does. So it's not just what happens to you. As you know, it's not just what happens in your childhood. It's all the patterns that you then take into adulthood, like with the low self-esteem and the low assertiveness and the people pleasing. There's this just like whole package of things that happened and alcohol, drug abuse. It just kind of goes on and on until you start to kind of start to unpick it all. And it has been quite a journey.
Jeanne: [00:08:13] I think that's beautiful how you show, not tell. The idea is when we share our story, and you've done this so well, is really for the reader to understand those defining moments that really define who we become in those moments, not who we necessarily stay, but who we are. So when, I always say that children, for example, when we're let down by the very people who take care of us, we can't just say, you know, we're out of here, see you. Like we don't have that autonomy. We don't have that, and we're clinging to a lifeline that may be the very lifeline that's harming us. So what we have to do is we have to trade our authenticity for attachment. And attachment keeps us connected to our family, keeps our life predictable, and serves us well as children. Right? Like whether it's a people pleaser, the academic, the clown of the family, the athlete, whatever role anybody decides to take on to keep the peace for want of a better word. And what I say is those very adaptions are the things that break us when we're adults, the things that ruin our relationships when we over-deliver and over-please. And we don't know what we want or we can't have it hold a boundary with someone, or we're indifferent about whatever decision we make in our life, because we can't be vulnerable with someone. Those are the things that really change for us. So I think you did that so brilliantly. You showed the making of Daniela Tilbrook through her childhood, but what was even better, I think, was how you gave a solution and gave concrete tools in The Light. So do you want to share a little bit about what The Light was for you and what you put into the book in terms of tools, or what led you to that and just how you did it exactly.
Daniela: [00:10:10] This has been a 21-year journey for me, because it was 21 years ago that I started remembering what had happened to me in childhood, because I managed to kind of block it out for ten years into adulthood. And then when I started remembering. So it feels like that journey of like trying different modalities, the kind of therapy, the counseling, sort of broken it down into kind of the things that I've tried. And I didn't want to overwhelm the reader because, you know, we're all so different and everyone's journey is different. But it was kind of a breakdown of my experience, a bit about talking therapies. I found internal family systems a really useful therapy. I've also done eMDR with the eye movement and Reprocessing, which was super helpful as well. And there came a point where I was really ready to kind of face my trauma, because a lot of the times before, I was kind of treating the symptoms so that I did eMDR when I was kind of ready to really face, you know, I suppose, face the fire and sort of turn around and look at it all. I've also… last December, I went to the Netherlands and did an ayahuasca retreat, which was super helpful as well. There are so many insights from that that I think would have taken a really long time in therapy to kind of get to those points. So it's kind of like a little breakdown of all the kind of things that I've tried. And there's journal prompts kind of throughout the second half of the book as well. So people can kind of just sort of reflect on their own journeys as well.
Jeanne: [00:11:32] Beautiful. And I did read your ayahuasca experience. So to anybody who's listening, I in particular, and I think Daniela is saying the same thing, is that we're proponents of whatever works for you. We're not saying that this is a prescriptive thing. These are some common things people do. And I do believe different tools for different people at different times. So for the first time in my life, I'm thinking of ayahuasca. I'm thinking not necessarily ayahuasca, but something that's very like very, very super light that maybe will just get me over the hump. The jury's not out. Maybe I don't need it. Maybe I can try other tools. It's not because I'm voicing it, because I have no shame and I have no judgment because I'm open about whatever it takes for someone to get to their finish line. I think that when I say finish line, we're never there. But what I'm referring to is really the finish line of feeling bonded by your past, feeling like you're in bondage. And so you talk about that liberation and freedom in the book. And so I think that's really important too. So yeah, let's talk about the liberation and freedom.
Daniela: [00:12:40] I guess for me there's no more secrets. And that is so liberating in itself. I told my children what had happened to me, because I knew I'd have to tell them before the book was out in the world, because the last thing I wanted to happen was someone go, oh, your mom's written a book and they hear it from someone else. I have no more secrets. I don't even like love white lies are just… Yeah. And it's just so freeing. And you don't really have to worry. I don't know, because it's so public now and so open. And what's been really, really interesting is so many people have disclosed their own traumas to me. So we've all, you know, we've all been wounded in one way or another. And it's just that we don't really talk about it.
Jeanne: [00:13:23] Hundreds and hundreds of thousands of years, humans have behaved poorly in moments of, whether it's abuse or sexual abuse or whatever it may be, or treating people as possessions. And so unless we change the trajectory, which you did, I've done, we carry that trauma forward. So you're modeling to your children that, hey, not optimal, in fact quite tragic. But look what you did with that. There's a choice here of how we can change that. And you gave light to it, which is exactly the thing that defuses it. Because I believe whatever you suppress, you repress, it just gets bigger. It's like trying to hold that ball down underwater, right? It just keeps growing and growing and growing and coming up. And that's what our previous generation did. They just were so ill equipped to handle anything that they buried their head in the sand. And that was your experience, I gather, too, with your mother. When you told me that passage you wrote about your mother, and you play this fantasy out in your head about how you wish it had have gone. I related so much to that. I was heartbroken for little Daniela, but I related so much to that because my story was, are you telling me the truth? My brother's an IV heroin user and I'm being questioned. So like this is a sort of denial that that generation had. They just didn't know what to do with stuff that was painful and uncomfortable, that they just pretended it didn't exist, which was part of the reparative experience, is to be validated and heard and seen and witnessed for what you've experienced. So they did the very thing that just amplified the pain. There was another moment where you talk about in the book, where your husband asked you to go back and speak to your mom, and he kind of demands you to go back and speak to your mom for the betterment of you and his family and your family, and tell the listeners what you said and why you said what you said.
Daniela: [00:15:30] We went round to see my mom and my husband, bless him. He's very, you know, black and white. You either choose your daughter or him. And my mom's kind of fumbling, not really sure what to say. And then he just goes out, exasperated. He goes to get like something from the car. And then when he came back, I just said, oh, my mom's chosen me. And he was like, good, you know? The kids then started seeing my mom.
Jeanne: [00:16:03] Well, you knew. You just kind of lied. You just saw that you're on integrity again, which is what you did all your childhood, right? Like making everybody else believe that whatever it is, you're in this perfect family until it needed to be birthed. The truth. Right?
Daniela: [00:16:18] I guess I wanted it so bad. I just wanted to protect, I don't know, I just wanted us to be a happy family. And I thought with him out of the picture that we could kind of do that. But, you know, it transpires it didn't quite turn out that way, but I did. Yeah. She didn't choose me. She didn't say anything. And I just, you know, I just lied just to make it better. Just to, yeah, to keep the peace to, you know, so we could all just carry on business as usual, sticking our heads in the sand.
Jeanne: [00:16:48] Such the English way, isn't it? But I don't know if it's just the English way. Well, it was part of that generation, right? They just were really ill-equipped to do anything different. They just pretended that I think if they thought they birthed life to it, that it became real. It was real regardless whether they talked about it or not. So in that moment, you've come back. You've done your part in terms of your own healing. You chose to say that, yeah, my mom, my mom chose me. What happened for you in that moment? For yourself? What did you say to yourself when you were doing that? Because I know that there was a moment that you had a reckoning before you opened your mouth.
Daniela: [00:17:31] I guess I mean, at the time, I think I thought I'd just fixed things and I thought, oh, great, you know, me and the girls will come back and see my mom and everything will be fine, and we'll just kind of carry on. But I think the problem was that my mom just wasn't really seeing me. And I'd kind of gone to her house and I'd showed her pictures of me all through childhood, and I said it was happening at this age, this age. And then I showed her pictures of me at university, and I was like, you know, this is me at university, heavily drinking, really trying to show the impact of kind of what this had done to me. But it was kind of like she just didn't quite get it. And I think one of the last times I just went there, I just completely lost it. And I was like punching the walls. And I was like, have you any idea what I've been through? I just wanted some sort of recognition or a sorry or some kind of I'm so sorry for what happened to you, but I just kind of realized I was never going to get that validation from my mum. In the end, I just had to walk away because the problem was essentially, I'm going back to the crime scene. She lives in the same house that I was abused in. So all these visits to my mum, I'm sort of ignoring all my triggers.
Jeanne: [00:18:42] Yeah, it's flooded with memories, sights, sounds, smells. Right? Everything.
Daniela: [00:19:45] Just keeping the peace, you know, for the sake of that kind of, for the family. But at some point I had to choose myself and it just got harder. And also, being on this kind of personal development journey, I found that, you know, I was meeting lots of great people really, sort of, kind of like my soul family. And then I would go back to the house, and every time I would just feel worse and worse. It was that kind of feeling of like Kryptonite, where sometimes I would leave and it would take me days to kind of replenish my energy. It was really, really bad for me. But at some point I just had to walk away. Just, I was never going to get that validation from her. If she does pick up the phone one day, you know, perhaps I would reconsider, but I've just, you know, she hasn't tried to contact me. It's been… I haven't seen her since December 2023. So it's, you know, it's been quite a long time and it always felt like it was always me kind of contacting my mum, keeping that kind of relationship. But I simultaneously also have kind of compassion for her because she's very, very much stuck in the shame of everything.
Jeanne: [00:19:45] Well, that's true liberation and true healing, right, is when we do have compassion for our perpetrators and not that we're having compassion, that anything is okay about it. It's the compassion around how it harms us if we don't find peace within it that they didn't know any better. She doesn't know any better, right? So what would young Daniella say to herself or say to you now about this process, about not getting the validation? And that's because, unfortunately, that's such a common experience that victims are questioned and disbelieved a lot. It's very common. More common than not. So what do you think that little girl would want you to know?
Daniela: [00:20:22] I probably would have walked away sooner or stopped seeking. I don't know, I've always been seeking some sort of, I don't know, an apology. Or when I was bullied at work, I went through a grievance and they found no evidence of bullying. And then I went through an appeal. And again, there was no evidence. And I just had that feeling of like I wanted someone to say sorry or acknowledge what had happened. And it's almost like…
Jeanne: [00:20:37] That’s so interesting that you had to have that experience with bullying in a totally different context, but the same experience.
Daniela: [00:20:42] But yeah, essentially, I'm so grateful actually to my former self that I did go to therapy because imagine if I'd kind of said, oh no, this isn't for me. I never would have unpicked the patterns. And because I was like, why does this keep happening to me? Why? You know, I'm meeting these losers that are like stealing my money, like sort of boyfriends and treating me, like, really badly and then have bosses that treat me badly. But it was that cycle of just abuse and then the self abuse as well. And it's kind of, yeah, I'm just so thankful to her that she did the work because my life would be so much worse now. You know, I hate to think what kind of state I would be in even if I was still alive.
Jeanne: [00:21:25] You said something really powerful about how your life would not be any different. And so I always believe we get the spiritual curriculum that we need to learn while we're here. Like, we get the exact same family that we need in order to learn what we come here for. Nobody in their right mind would sign up for their own life if they had a choice. But somehow we managed to find what we call the glimmers, the silver lining in life, whatever that may be. Just because your life doesn't go well in one area, it doesn't mean it can't go well. It's interesting when it comes to manifestation. So I'm not woo manifestation. I'm talking about reality in an energetic frequency of manifestation. You are putting out into the world, I'm inadequate. I'm not good enough. What's wrong with me? Da da da da da. And that was being mirrored back to you in your relationships, in your work environment. Well, let's give Daniela whatever, she'll put out with that. Until you had to learn that lesson that yeah, you're not someone's punching bag. You're not up for someone else's agenda. You're part of your own agenda of life. And you're going to take back your power and you're going to shine light on the truth, which is what you did. Now, I want you to tell the listeners, what is your life like today?
Daniela: [00:22:42] I mean, it's a lot better.
Jeanne: [00:22:45] It's more than a lot better. She's being very modest. So let's talk about that for a moment, because how did we meet?
Daniela: [00:22:50] Oh, through the Heroic community?
Jeanne: [00:22:52] Right. And what kind of community is Heroic?
Daniela: [00:22:58] No. It's wonderful. It's great. You know, I sort of talk about the soul family. A lot of the soul family I met through the Heroic community. And, yeah, I mean, I did the coach program a couple of years back, and it just really helped me in, like, so many sort of different areas of my life. And yeah, I mean, it's great. I'm really glad that I met a good man, but I'd learned by then, I don't know, I learned because I'm so glad I didn't end up with any of the others.
Jeanne: [00:23:31] You outgrew that version of yourself. Clearly, that version of you doesn't exist anymore. She was. And she's informed the person you've come today. Because trust me, I know you know, you talk about it in the book. Some of the things that you did in personal development, like you're not a clinician, and, you know, a lot of stuff. There's no question, you know a lot of stuff in terms of healing. It's very legitimate what you put down in that book, whether it's internal family systems, it’s eMDR or somatic experience, ayahuasca, plant medicine, whatever it is, you even stop drinking without even going to rehab, like you just did things that really one would recommend as a protocol to clean up their life and heal it from their history. So I applaud you for that. And so that is what informed your destiny, the willingness to go to the places, I think, that scare us, because I don't think we sign up willingly. I know for me, the only reason I did what I did, which is similar to you, is because I always say my willingness was proportionate to my desperation to get out of pain. I was in so much emotional pain that I was teachable. I… sign me up for anything that works. I'll do it. But if I had to be more comfortable, I don't know if I would have done it.
Daniela: [00:24:53] I guess when you're kind of in hell, you'll try anything.
Jeanne: [00:24:58] Yeah, exactly. You want to get out of there? So I want to talk a little bit to the listener about this book. So first of all we are going to promote it with the links below. But I'm going to encourage anyone who really wants like a cheat sheet to healing, that's part in The Light. It feels like heavy. It's not heavy. I think one of the beautiful things about it is, is that it shows the human essence of who we become in the moments when we're not treated like we would like to be treated or worthy of being treated, and the places that we go to are the places who we hurt the most are ourselves, not others. We somehow protect them at the expense of ourselves. And that's what this book really highlights. And I think that's why it's so brilliantly done. And I just encourage people to pick it up and give it a read, because I've never read something that is so riveting, yet so powerful. So you've definitely got another book in you. There's no question about that. So what are you going to write about next?
Daniela: [00:26:07]I do want to do a light work book project as well, and I have been contemplating writing about the survivor's journey. Of course, I've learned so much through the book writing process that… because it was such a kind of steep learning curve, and this time I would have a really detailed outline because my outline was a little bit, what's the word? Flimsy. And then I ended up writing in circles. I guess a great analogy is if you're going to climb up the mountain, have a really clear map of where you're going. And that could potentially change, but I kind of got lost on the mountain, got diverted. So it has taken a long time.
Jeanne: [00:26:50] Well, I think you're being hard on yourself. I think it's a learning experience for anyone who's never done it before, right? And then there's the element of how birthing truth to our history has an impact on us, and how that feels emotionally and how it lands, right? Like I say, the ultimate vulnerability hangover. Like I've been in places where I've been at a dinner party with close friends and I've been talking about my history, a part of my history that's never been disclosed before. And suddenly I'm like, oh my God, stone cold sober. Absolutely stone cold sober. Like, did I say too much? Like I'm wondering, like what was the purpose of what I said? But it was like sometimes you recognize, even us, we deny the things that we forget about. How many incidences or experiences in our life shape the essence of who we are, for better and for worse. And so sometimes we just need to birth truth into them to really give us a liberationThey see you as this new empowered woman who's courageous and creative and has, you know, the power to change her family's trajectory, not just on her own, but h. And it's interesting because the people in that instance at that dinner party, they were like, it was like, oh my God. I've never known anybody who's had more than you, kind of thing because they have this very charmed life. I don't know, too many fortunate people in life, right? But these friends were. And it felt validating. So we get our validation sometimes from people that we don't expect like they, that it was so hidden for me that they saw the persona of who I was as this old version of ourselves, sometimes, if the shame can creep back in. But really, nobody else sees you that way. er girls’. You're mirroring all the time. You're teaching them. Either we stuff this down, pretend this never happened, or we birth life to it, and then we give our children permission to do things differently as well.
Jeanne: [00:28:52] So I think it's really important. I do think there's an element of being our own worst critic. We are, we're hard on ourselves, especially if we're survivors. I just love the fact that we came together and we didn't trauma-bond over it. We just thought, oh my God, what's your experience? What's your experience? Right? And we learn from each other rather than decided to like, you know, commiserate in it, which is what a lot of people do, right? They don't know how to get out of it or.
Daniela: [00:29:23] But I love what you said when we met up. I'm a cycle breaker, and I was like, I'm a cycle breaker.
Jeanne: [00:29:30] Cycle breaker and hope dealer.
Daniela: [00:29:32]I like the hope dealer as well. It is important work because as you said, you know, if I hadn't done the work, I could have, you know, just unconsciously all these kind of just passed down all the stuff to the next generation. But what's great is I feel I can really coach my girls, be there for them, be the parent that I wish that I'd had as well. And I really want them to go into adulthood with, you know, good self-esteem, you know, good confidence. You know, they'll have their own challenges. But if they have a much, you know, a great base. Yeah. Not like ours.
Jeanne: [00:30:13] So tell me, what message of hope would you give the listener to someone who may have come across and still feels that this is either new for them to sort of, you know, open up Pandora's box or it could be they're in it and they just feel like they're spinning. And they've been suffering for years around their own mental health and their lived experience history. What message would you want to tell that listener?
Daniela: [00:30:35] I think to have that real self-compassion and go at your own pace and be kind to yourself. And I think the problem, because I also tried not dealing with it. And you can try and push it down and push it away, but it's still running the show, you know, on that sort of unconscious level and you can't not look at it because I've really tried that as well. And I thought, you know, that might be an easier option. But there is hope and there is healing. And like, we know so much more these days as well. We have, you know, resources to so much more information on healing. You know, that, you know, we're talking about the previous generation just wouldn't have had that. So they had to kind of push everything down. But we're in a great position that there is healing available and it is possible. And it is an ongoing, you know, looking after yourself, eating well, sleeping enough. All the things to look after ourselves. But yes, you said about, maybe I was being a bit hard on myself about the book writing.
Jeanne: [00:31:35] Oh, I know you're being hard on yourself. I do know that, and I want to go back to community because I think that's an important thing. So I joined the Heroic community with Brian Johnson and Alexandra Johnson and Michael Balchan. I joined this challenge in the new year, January 2025. Yeah, and got right into it. So they had a new program. So I got a Reader's Digest version of 101 Days of How to Make Sustainable Change, for want of a better word. And what I didn't know was how epic this community... So everybody thinks they have the best community, but really, it's when people really do show up is when you really have the best community, and you have real cheerleaders, and you have people who are helpers rather than judgers. And we kind of… I don't even know how we fell into each other's sphere, but we fell into each other's sphere. And then we had the privilege of meeting in London, England. I could have chose any relative to meet up with, but she was my first choice, which just shows you sometimes how we create our own family of choice when we've been so let down by family, right? Which is really a part of my personal story. I'm a soul survivor. There's been so much drama and trauma in my life, and that probably explains why I sort of said, hey, I'm leaving my family for a few minutes, my immediate family, to go and meet a friend who I've never met before, rather than go see a relative who comes with a whole bunch of luggage and shaming. Right? And so I just wanted to really let you guys know that because we had a real chance encounter. But that's what community does for us when we find our people. Right? Talk just a tiny bit about how that has impacted you as well.
Daniela: [00:33:25] It's been really wonderful. And a couple of years back they used to do daily coaching calls, which I'd often go to, and then the subject of trauma came up and there's this guy called Anthony Smith, who was very open about his own sort of traumas. And then other people started kind of disclosing a little bit about their kind of histories. And I think when I've sort of seen a few people do that, it kind of, it’s that thing. It almost felt like, oh, then I was able to kind of talk about my own. And what was really interesting was that more people in the Heroic community knew my history than some of the people that I knew.
Jeanne: [00:34:00] Your family? Yeah. And it's the real you, right?
Jeanne: [00:34:04] But it felt. Yeah, in that kind of supportive space. And, you know, I had sort of coaching and sort of wanted to write a book and there was a lot of support. A lot of the Heroic community bought the preorders for the, you know, for the Not My Shame book as well. So they've been like, really supportive and they've read the book and they've like left reviews. But yeah, just a really kind of, yeah, like really cheerleading. And then I was invited by Heroic as a luminary guest as well, which was great as well. So I felt like a and then I was on Hal Elrod's podcast, which felt like a really full circle moment because I found Heroic, because Brian Johnson was on Hal Elrod's podcast a few years. And then suddenly I'm like, oh my goodness, I'm on Hal Elrod's podcast.
Jeanne: [00:34:45] That's how I met you on the coaching calls. And you asked him, how do I promote my book? And he goes, go get on everybody's podcast. And then he and then just that Elrod moment just fell into your lap. And that's where I call, where the doors start opening when the universe is ready. Right? We have to be able to be courageous enough to walk through them. And sometimes it takes some prep work, as you say, healing prep work to get there. But we can't let our fear hijack us, because look at how you would have robbed yourself of so many beautiful opportunities had you been stuck in that fear? And what if, you know, people pleasing and keeping everybody else happy at the torment of yourself, right? And your own family for that matter, because they would have suffered too.
Daniela: [00:35:28] It has been a great journey. And it's, and it's also having the courage and the confidence. And I really like, you know, the work of kind of Phil Stutz that you're kind of never exonerated from the hard work and the fear and uncertainty, because there is a part of me that's like, well, I've read loads of books, I've done loads of personal...
Jeanne: [00:35:48] You're never there. It's like the kids. Are we there yet? No. Whenever there, there's always. And probably when we get even on our deathbed, there's another level, right? We're never there.
Daniela: [00:36:00] But I think that's. But it's good to know that as well. And because there is a part of me that's like. Well, I should be exonerated by now, surely. But also, I think Heroic kind of helped me step out of victim mode, as well. And, you know, all the tools that we were kind of learning was just so helpful for your kind of mental fitness, your physical fitness. There was just so much there packaged up in the coach program. And then the community, I’ve been to Austin a couple of times, just met some wonderful people and, but yes. Yeah, loads of friends. It's been lovely, actually, met loads of great people through that community.
Jeanne: [00:36:33] And I definitely echo that because that's been my experience too. So would you say this is the one thing, like if you had to define your life down to, you know, one of how many things that have had major impact on your life, would you say this is the one thing that's had a major impact on your life? Writing Not Shame, the incidence of what you experienced as a child. Would you say that was the most defining moment of your life?
Daniela: [00:37:11] I really would love to get to that point, and I'm not quite there of, you know, it's that kind of thing. It happened, you know, it happened for you, not to you. And I do see all the growth and the person it's made me. But there has been so much pain. It's very difficult. It's difficult to get to that point, to be sort of grateful for it all, I guess. But it's part of like the rich tapestry of life and interesting in the ayahuasca experience, some of it was very, very difficult. I had to face some really tough things, but and then it would kind of flip into the more lighthearted side of life. So it just kind of, it kind of shows
Jeanne: [00:37:38] At the dinner table, you talk about. Yeah, yeah, there's a part of it. You went for the ayahuasca experience and there you are back at the dinner table having some fun.
Daniela: [00:37:44] Right. But yeah, but even in the ceremony itself, it was kind of lighthearted moments as well. And it's kind of. Yeah, I think it's just that rich tapestry of life. And you know, we all go through difficult things, you know, some maybe more traumatic than others. But I don't think anyone gets out of here unscathed.
Jeanne: [00:38:05] No, no one gets out of here unscathed. I think you're right. And listen, pain is pain. What may seem light for me or for you. Maybe somebody else has a heavier burden or a heavier load, doesn't mean it feels different. It still hurts. It still hurts us emotionally. And then when we go into the emotional body, we know that it has a physiological response as well. So the pain is pain. So we're never comparing. And in my spiritual sense I believe we're given the exact life that we needed in order to heal. So you get your life, I get my life because we can handle it. But maybe somebody else couldn't handle our circumstances, and that's why they're given something different. Whether it's a physical illness or whatever it may be. Right? And so, you know, this is one of the few adversities, whether it's substance abuse, addiction, trauma, that you can come out of here with a beautiful life, even though it was brutal, brutal and painful. And it's never okay to violate anyone, let alone a child, an innocent child. But in physical illnesses, we don't always get a second chance. But with our emotional illnesses, we do, if we choose to do differently. And I think that is the most courageous step. Will I do differently when I know differently? Right? Because until we're out of our house, we think this is normal until we start to get out of the house and then we know, oh my God, this is not so normal. This is not what other people experience, right? This is just going on in my place. So, I think it's something there's a glimmer there of hope to anyone who's listening that we can choose differently. And we owe that to ourselves. We owe that to our younger version of ourselves and the future version of who's to come. Not just the future version of us, but the next generations down, because this will impact them, for better or for worse.
Daniela: [00:40:07] No, I totally agree with you. And this the picture on the cover was the picture that I kind of rescued.
Jeanne: [00:40:14] I love that little girl. I love her so much.
Daniela: [00:40:20] And it just feels. I don't know it. To me, it's great that you know that. She's on the cover of the book.
Jeanne: [00:40:24] She's young and she's innocent and she's fresh, and she was naive and didn't know any better, and she deserved to be taken care of.
Daniela: [00:40:26] Yeah.
Jeanne: [00:40:30] Yeah. So she lives on
Daniela: [00:40:32] It’s the religious trauma as well, because I was in a, you know, very kind of strict Catholic family. My biological father actually was a Catholic priest who left mum, well, I mean, had, took no responsibility. My stepfather, who was my abuser. And for much of my life, I thought he was my biological dad, was also a former priest. So I think there's a lot of, you know, we went to church every Sunday. We were, you know, we were big players in the kind of, in the
Jeanne: [00:41:13] Community.
Daniela: [00:41:15] Yeah, in the community. You know that my dad played the organ at church. He would often do readings. We had priests coming round for dinner, the nuns. But yeah, very much in the church. And I think that's been really difficult. And then, you know, and this was kind of happening, you know, throughout my childhood. So it's kind of taken a long time to kind of get my own spirituality back. And I guess not having to go through a middleman of the priest and it’s to have that kind of direct connection to God yourself. And it's taken me a really long time to even say the word God. It was like, I don't know, I would sort of say universe or, you know, the.
Jeanne: [00:41:50] Yeah, because I've been let down. So that's a huge part because and I appreciate you bringing it up because even though, I’m not a Catholic, I can understand the absolute violation of someone in a position of power, whether it's a priest, a rabbi, a physician, a president, someone who you are putting on a pedestal because that is their their role and to then violate. Like, to me, that's the ultimate violation because it's not just a normal person who's held to a different set of standards. It's someone who's elevated. And so to me, I can't find any word other than the word disgusting. It's like, you know, the analogy I'll give and it's different, but I think you can identify with it is that when a financial person has a fiduciary responsibility to look after people's money, that is their job. When they steal, that is, you know, the ultimate deal breaker, because that is, their work is to be trusted. It's the same thing with the position of power. Like a priest, you should be almost held to different standards and accountability, and even more so. How much more tragic?
Daniela: [00:43:12] Yeah, it's the stranger than fiction kind of part of my story. Like if I was writing a fiction book, I think I would have struggled to find these details. But yeah. And, you know, as you said, you know, my mum was quite vulnerable as well. And, you know. Yeah, she got pregnant by the priest. And I mean, you know, to her credit kept me and yeah, sort of raised me by herself until, you know, later she sort of met my stepfather. But that was the other thing I only found out he was not my biological dad in my early 30s. And, you know, it's in the book and this mysterious letter appears from the biological father. But, yeah. So there's been a lot of, like, what the hell moments.
Jeanne: [00:43:49] Leave it to the British. And I'm sure that half of Europe is no different. And North America for that matter. See, people, what happens is and it amazes me and this is part of that generation. They kept secrets and it works with people when they have children and have babies, but what they forget is those babies grow up and then they start asking questions or putting things together that don't really. And so it really falls apart. And so there's no point in harvesting secrets. And there's yes, there's times to tell children appropriate information that you don't tell them when they're not ready. But what happens is that it never happens, right? So I can imagine, stranger than fiction. I love that saying, because that's my story, stranger than fiction. So I really identify with that. And all the more reason people should go and buy your book, not My Shame by Daniela Tilbrook, show notes in terms of the link and how to get it on Amazon, I believe, and most places where you can get books internationally. And, I'd like to leave you with one parting question, and that is, what do you do now to stay naturally high? You don't use drugs. You don't do any. You're not the old Daniela. So who are you now?
Jeanne: [00:45:08] I love running, yoga, meditation. I think meditation is so good for my mind. I, you know, I do that daily, but all the, yeah, and I sort of, yeah. Yoga, definitely. But yeah, looking sort of eating well, you know, trying to reduce the sugar and all that kind of thing that, that what sort of keeps me sort of naturally high and, yeah, just kind of, I think, yeah. Looking after myself, it's a very different experience. Oh, and tomorrow will be four years since I last had a drink.
Jeanne: [00:45:40] Wow. That's... Celebrate that. Yeah, Daniela. Congratulations. Really amazing.
Daniela: [00:45:49] I mean, yeah, that's in the book as well. The vomit dress incident. But it's not the person I wanted to be.
Jeanne: [00:46:00] But you made a choice. There you go. And signs up for that. We just fall into it, right? Like that's the whole thing. And that's when we sort of say, okay, who are we going to be when we grow up. Are we going to stay here or are we going to pick ourselves up, dust us off and move forward? And you chose it, I love it.
Daniela: [00:46:11] It's one of the best things that I've done for my well-being. Actually, the not drinking. It's all about naturally high. But that was. You know, I'm never going to wake up with a hangover again. And even when I get a bit icky or feel a bit down, or I just... It's become such a bright line that, like, I don't want to ever go back to that place. I just… I've given so much of my life to alcohol and it's just like, really? Oh, and soap operas. I don't watch them anymore either. Everything numbing, you know, I love roller skating with the kids and just hanging out with them and just doing kind of fun stuff, climbing
Jeanne: [00:46:55] You need joy in your life, right? And flourishing. And that's how I feel like, why would you want to cover up your life with distractions or things that are unhealthy for you when you’re just dulling the experience of joy that you can actually have? I think people look at it in a different light, that they're giving something out rather than gaining something. And that's being the traditional like, oh, there must be something wrong with you if you can't drink alcohol. I don't know if many people can do it well anyway. But the point is they're not giving anything up. They're actually gaining an amazing life. And when they figure it out, the joke's on them. So, yeah, I can understand that. So, congratulations.
Daniela: [00:47:28] I remember a couple of years back, we were staying at some friends and everyone was up drinking, and I remember going to bed quite early. And the next morning I went exploring the area and I found like a meadow, went for a walk by the sea. But like, none of that would have happened if I was drinking. I would have probably woken up at 9, 10 o’clock, rather than woke up early, had that time to myself. So I think all the things that happened in the early hours, all the good habits and, you know, the kind of the journaling, the meditation, the exercise, all of that's quite magical. And then you feel so much better, and it's so much better than, like, any night out that you can't actually remember
Jeanne: [00:48:13] 100%. And I feel like for those who are listening, who've never tried sobriety, you don't have to jump into it for everything, but you can give it a test drive and see what feels right for you. There's nothing brighter than being naked in all of that and being your true self. And it's so ironic that we spend so much time trying to run from our true selves, and that when we do come back to our true self, there's this beautiful homecoming and reckoning. And you said you talked about the meditation, the journaling and all the things they had, almost like a crescendo. And then everything magical starts to happen in your life. And that's the beauty of this journey, is this beautiful homecoming to ourselves and all the magic that comes from it, from doing the hard work.
Daniela: [00:49:09] I'm really glad that I found my way to just doing things in a much better, healthier way. And again, just not abusing myself because, you know, of all the abuse and the bullying, you know, the saddest thing was I was doing it to myself as well for years, just drinking heavily, you know, smoking weed for years. And, you know, all the other stuff.
Jeanne: [00:49:28] Well, you thought you deserved it. You didn't deserve any better, I would imagine. Is that correct?
Daniela: [00:49:30] I think it's just numbing. Just not facing. I don't know, I sort of think back to, you know, I said I didn't remember for ten years, but that was ten years of quite heavy drinking, probably just wanting to block it out.
Jeanne: [00:49:33] And you were trying to probably lock up, which was trying to rise, right? And so that's what caused you to double down on that.
Daniela: [00:49:39] And when you're not very confident and, you know, like after a couple of drinks, I was like, yeah, I was like…
Jeanne: [00:49:54] Yeah, I'm invincible. Bring it on.
Daniela: [00:50:03] Yeah. I just, you know, I much prefer the yoga mat these days.
Jeanne: [00:50:06] I'm with you, girl. I'm with you. Okay, so, Daniela, it's been a pleasure. Real pleasure to talk about your story. Talk about Not My Shame. I really encourage readers to get it. And I know in due course, we'll be back with another bestseller from you. So until then, thank you so much for joining us and sharing your story with our listeners. And in closing, is there anything you want to say?
Daniela: [00:50:30] Yeah. I mean, anyone that's struggling with shame to remember always, that it's not your shame. You know, it never was. And we really need to just give it back to the person it belongs to and not carry it, because I carried it for years and years. And yeah, I'm just kind of free of it now. And you know that. That's why the book's called Not My Shame. And yeah, thank you so much for having me on the podcast as well.
Jeanne: [00:50:55] Oh my pleasure. Absolutely. My pleasure. Thank you again. Thank you for joining me for this episode of Naturally High. If this conversation resonated with you, I'd love to hear your thoughts. Please leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or reach out to me through the links in the show notes. Together, we're changing the way the world approaches mental health, addiction, and trauma. Remember to like, subscribe, and leave a rating for Naturally High on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen so you never miss an episode. For more inspiration and resources, follow me on Instagram @theRecovery_concierge, or visit theRecoveryConcierge.com. Stay empowered, keep rising, and I'll see you in the next episode.