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Stacey Flaster and Dori Goldman are two ladies obsessed with cults and true crime. Join them as they take us into the depths of some of the most notorious cults, crimes, and killers that the world has ever known. They consume content and ask deep dark questions that only a certified expert can answer... enter Dr. John Mayer. Dr. John is an internationally known Forensic Psychologist and expert on violent behavior and crime prevention, with 35 years of experience consulting to law enforcement and testifying in hundreds of court cases as an expert witness. He is the "Real Deal" and will help Stacey and Dori get to the bottom of of their curious criminal minds.
00;00;00;06 - 00;00;03;05
Stacey
Candy.
00;00;03;08 - 00;00;06;20
Stacey
A podcast about cults, crimes and killers.
00;00;06;20 - 00;00;12;05
Unknown
Oh. They.
00;00;12;05 - 00;00;21;26
Stacey
In this episode, we're stepping into the rotting farmhouse of one of the most terrifying figures in American true crime history. Ed Gein.
00;00;21;26 - 00;00;24;24
Stacy/Dori
to the people of Plainfield, Wisconsin.
00;00;24;24 - 00;00;48;26
Stacy/Dori
Ed was a quiet, if slightly off handyman. But when police entered his home in 1957, they uncovered a scene straight out of the nightmare poles made from skulls, chairs upholstered in human skin, and the suit stitched together from the flesh of a dead woman that he admitted to wearing
00;00;48;26 - 00;00;52;20
Dori
yum.
00;00;52;22 - 00;01;12;08
Stacey
What drove him to such depravity? The answer, in part, lies with his mother, Augusta, again a fanatically religious woman who preached that women were instruments of the devil. She kept Ed isolated from the world, feeding him guilt, shame and fear like it was Holy Scripture. When she died, something inside him snapped.
00;01;12;10 - 00;01;36;22
Dori
And Ed didn't just kill. He collected most of his gruesome trophies, came not from murder, but from graves he robbed under the cover of night. He wasn't just obsessed with death. He wanted to be someone else entirely. Someone who could bring his mother back. Someone who could silence the demons she planted in him.
00;01;36;24 - 00;01;48;23
Stacey
His crimes shocked the nation and inspired some of the most infamous monsters in pop culture. But the real Ed Gein, he was far more terrifying than any movie villain.
00;01;51;13 - 00;01;57;06
Unknown
I'm outside my window. No.
00;01;57;08 - 00;02;02;21
Speaker 1
It's all Iranian.
00;02;02;23 - 00;02;09;21
Unknown
When the wind blows, I feel pain.
00;02;09;23 - 00;02;15;28
Speaker 1
I mean, I mean, no, doctor.
00;02;16;01 - 00;02;36;25
Unknown
But I'm not still. A Protestant like that. Oh. I mean, ever since,
00;02;38;08 - 00;02;38;19
Speaker 1
In the.
00;02;38;18 - 00;02;38;29
Speaker 1
In the.
00;02;38;29 - 00;02;46;07
Unknown
Oh, 00000.
00;02;46;07 - 00;03;22;26
Dori
Stacey, I knew nothing about this man. Like, oh, I really, I, I, I hear of, I watch so much stuff as you know, I knew literally the name did not come across to me until Ryan Murphy announced that he was doing another monsters series starring that Charlie Hunan. And that is how I'm like, oh, can we do an episode on Ed Gein?
00;03;22;26 - 00;03;24;23
Dori
I know nothing about this man.
00;03;24;23 - 00;03;43;11
Stacey
and I should also mention that this, we watched a documentary called Ed Gein, which was produced and directed by my very own brother Alex and his business partner Adam. They put it together, produced it, and it's really wonderful. It's about 45 minutes and it's got some interviews and it's really cool.
00;03;43;11 - 00;03;45;12
Stacey
And that's what we used as our source material.
00;03;46;19 - 00;03;59;22
Speaker 2
There's something about game that appeals to the morbid curiosity within all of us. It's so macabre, so bizarre, so deviant that we can't look away.
00;04;00;22 - 00;04;24;04
Stacey
as you know, and as as some people know, the characters that were inspired by Ed Gein and Ed Gein had such a large like he did. So many really disgusting things, in my opinion. I'm sure you agree though, did a lot of really disgusting things. And later I'm going to ask doctor mayor, doctor John Mayer, doctor, doctor on staff.
00;04;24;04 - 00;04;33;27
Stacey
We decided to ask him back. By the way, he's going to be so happy. Yeah, he's going to be really happy because last week he was on thin ice and now we just bring him back.
00;04;33;27 - 00;04;35;25
Dori
Talking about firing the doctor.
00;04;35;25 - 00;04;40;19
Stacey
Yeah, yeah. The doctor. But now we brought him back. So Ed Gein, so,
00;04;40;19 - 00;04;53;12
Stacey
psychotic that he inspired Norman Bates from psycho, and inspired a Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Texas chainsaw murderer. Yes, sir.
00;04;53;12 - 00;04;56;06
Dori
Murder massacre, murder, murder massacre.
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Stacey
And, he inspired, silence of the lambs, the Buffalo Bill character, who made, you know, objects out of human human skin, etc..
00;05;08;23 - 00;05;26;14
Speaker 2
There was a what the police called a mammary vest, the upper torso of a woman that queen had taken from the body and preserved and attached straps to. And then there were leggings that had been made from the skin of a woman's legs.
00;05;26;17 - 00;05;38;03
Speaker 3
And at times her. It was reported that he was sometimes walk around with this memory vest that he had managed to make from female anatomy, and he would attach it to his body.
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Speaker 2
And apparently also sometimes take one of the, female genitals that he had removed from a corpse and stick those on himself as well, and pretend to be a woman.
00;05;51;10 - 00;06;07;04
Stacey
you know, this story, first of all, he lived in a farmhouse, with his mother, Augusta, his father, who died earlier on, and his brother Henry, who also died in a fire. Mysterious Lee, I should add, in my opinion.
00;06;07;07 - 00;06;08;27
Dori
And other opinions.
00;06;09;00 - 00;06;27;25
Stacey
And other opinions. When they found Henry after this fire, he had, marks on him that that seemed to appear that he didn't die just from asphyxiation from fire, but also from, you know, murder. Possibly. Possibly. So, as we know, again, only killed
00;06;27;25 - 00;06;43;07
Stacey
that we know of two women. And in my opinion as well, they, they he simulated his mother out of the skin of these women created a human suit that so he could be literally be her.
00;06;43;10 - 00;06;44;27
Stacey
What do you think of that? Dory?
00;06;45;11 - 00;07;07;26
Dori
I think that I would never wear a flesh suit, so I, I I'm going to. Okay. So yes, this this definitely all stems from. And when we bring out the doctor, we can talk to him about this. But, you know, the mother was extremely religious. And really,
00;07;07;26 - 00;07;08;20
Dori
kept
00;07;08;20 - 00;07;12;14
Dori
the two boys from ever socializing.
00;07;12;16 - 00;07;38;17
Dori
You know, women were terrible. You can't have a lot of friends or any friends and really kept them so isolated where Henry, the older brother, went out and started really questioning what was going on. And maybe, like there is a world, but Ed stayed so devout to his mother and she was his wife,
00;07;39;08 - 00;07;54;25
Speaker 2
His mother had completely undermined his manhood in every way. And at her funeral he was reacting like a little schoolboy who had just lost his mommy, you know, and just crying hysterically.
00;07;54;28 - 00;08;05;03
Speaker 3
Everything that he knew in the world seemingly was gone. That was his one link with sanity that was remaining at that point.
00;08;05;03 - 00;08;10;28
Dori
you know, we all get very upset when a loved one passes away.
00;08;11;00 - 00;08;15;07
Dori
But that was his whole entire existence.
00;08;15;07 - 00;08;35;02
Stacey
Was his whole existence was her. And, you know, it was almost like when Henry was gone. He had her to himself. And unfortunately, she died shortly thereafter of a stroke. And then he was alone. And I think when he was alone, he I think he freaked out because he he didn't have that rock. Who was who was his mother.
00;08;35;08 - 00;08;57;12
Stacey
And, you know, it's a lot of devout Christians. You know, it's so ironic to me that we're looking at a Christian, we're looking at a Bible, and then we're extrapolating that women are demons, that the life is, is scary. And but whatever she indoctrinated with him, brainwashed with him, and she had her own demons as well. Whatever she did to him, she created a monster.
00;08;57;18 - 00;09;32;01
Stacey
She literally created a monster without feelings, emotion. And there was, you know, separately from that, I wonder what you think. He seemed so meek and gentle, like, gentle and sweet, like he was nice. And, you know, I'm not saying he's a good person, but what does that mean? You know? And Doctor John can also answer this. What does that mean for a person who can commit such heinous crimes, but also seem to be so kind and loving and generous and, you know, easygoing and and agreeable, and all he needed was a piece of apple pie with cheddar cheese.
00;09;32;07 - 00;09;34;00
Stacey
And he just spilled his spilled it out.
00;09;34;00 - 00;10;12;07
Dori
Well, I'm gonna say something very controversial. Okay. These photos that they showed in the documentary of of Ed Kane, I thought he was kind of a looker. I'm not going to lie. I was like, this guy's cute. Kind of cute. Not I would not swipe left. I would swipe right. But I know you mentioned, like, with the, you know, that he was a meek and mild mannered and and the townspeople in Plainfield said that he was like, you know, odd, but a nice guy.
00;10;15;00 - 00;10;29;07
Speaker 1
The whole mystery within you is what kind of a man. Did you know what I mean? Nice man. Just like anybody else. The only difference, I'd say the man who seems to be,
00;10;30;29 - 00;10;55;14
Dori
when he was, put in the Institute mission after, the murders were discovered and after all of the body parts were discovered, he was a model institution. One person who. Yeah. Like, so I know that, you know, I obviously you probably have questions around that. I have questions to get more of, like the professional,
00;10;55;14 - 00;10;57;06
Dori
you know, side of that.
00;10;57;09 - 00;10;58;11
Dori
But
00;10;58;11 - 00;11;34;20
Dori
I also thought for me another controversial statement, but I enjoyed the fact that when his mother died and he went to the cemetery to dig up other ladies, they were age appropriate ladies. They weren't like young dames that he was going after. He was digging up all these women and the two women that he murdered were also older ladies.
00;11;34;22 - 00;11;50;19
Dori
Yeah. Again, obviously the Oedipus mom complex that he has, but with all the Ted Bundy's of the world, I was actually like, oh, I can just it's true. The oldie is good for you.
00;11;50;19 - 00;11;58;14
Stacey
Just he's just a mama's boy at heart. Just. So, so was he in.
00;11;58;14 - 00;12;01;17
Dori
Love with his mom, or did he just.
00;12;01;19 - 00;12;05;14
Stacey
Feel like he needed to be inside of her womb?
00;12;05;17 - 00;12;20;16
Dori
Yeah, it was it. I don't know, I, I mean, honestly, I think probably both. Like, if there's one person that isolated you, you know, and you're the only that's the only person in your life day after day.
00;12;22;17 - 00;12;40;04
Speaker 2
This is the duality of Cain. You know, part of it was a desire to to have the physical presence of his mother back with him in that home, where is obviously another part of the motivation had to do with desecrating the corpse.
00;12;40;04 - 00;12;52;11
Dori
But he did go out, like when he like that, you know, Bloody Mary, they called her the the barkeep woman that he killed like he did have like conversations.
00;12;52;11 - 00;13;25;29
Dori
And Bernie's the hardware store lady that he also murdered. He had like conversations with other women. But his mother always instilled in him that ladies were whores. They were all terrible people. So, I don't know, like what a woman would a mom not want their children to ever have a relationship with anybody else? But, but Henry, the other brother, did have a relationship.
00;13;26;01 - 00;13;49;17
Stacey
One thing I learned from Doctor John from the Gwen Shamblin episode that we did before this is about, you know, how some people in a family have are healthy and some can be unhealthy. And and so he had kind of explained how the difference between these two people, like he was able to get out. He had self-esteem, he had confidence.
00;13;49;22 - 00;14;09;19
Stacey
And I really think it I think it has to do with self-esteem and the ability, you know, maybe at some point, maybe some people are more apt to be brainwashed than others. But the ability to for his brother, like, who would you be? Would you be his brother? Or would you be Ed if your mom was saying to you, Dorie, don't men that men are bad, men are evil.
00;14;09;19 - 00;14;25;22
Stacey
Men will. Men will rape you. Men will hurt you. Men will be abusive to you. What? At some point, if you started off your life that way and it went on and on, do you think you'd be strong enough to be Henry? Or would you end up being Ed?
00;14;25;24 - 00;14;31;10
Dori
That's a good question. Honestly, I really don't know because my mother was the absolute opposite.
00;14;31;11 - 00;14;52;02
Dori
like Dory. How why are you not dating? More like, get out there and meet. I don't know, like, that's honestly, Stacy, that's a really good question because I wasn't sheltered as a child. You know, my parents took us to, like discos when we were young children.
00;14;52;09 - 00;14;55;21
Dori
I was seven years old during doreen's a disco.
00;14;55;21 - 00;15;14;23
Stacey
My God, we you know, my mother took me to see Saturday Night Fever when I was in second grade in the movie theater, you know? So, you know, my my first words were, you know, suck and ball and mom and dad, you know, so that's our life.
00;15;14;26 - 00;15;19;09
Dori
We we we would I maybe were separated sisters, maybe were.
00;15;19;09 - 00;15;32;09
Stacey
Separated at birth. But, you know, my mother and your mother. I know you have a wonderful relationship with your mother. I have a really good relationship with my mom. But I could see myself being brainwashed by her.
00;15;32;12 - 00;15;35;14
Dori
Because she's so domineering, because she has been domineering.
00;15;35;14 - 00;15;55;28
Stacey
But I also, I really appreciate and listen to her advice. So if my mom said men are bad and you have to be careful, I'm sure at some point I would think because if my mom said to me, your boyfriend has a melon head, that's what she said about one of my boyfriends. He has a melon head. I couldn't see his head any differently after that break up with him.
00;15;56;00 - 00;16;30;24
Dori
But, you know, my mom said to me, like, my mom sheltered like my parents, sheltered my sister and I like we weren't allowed to cross the street. We weren't allowed to babysit because my my mother was afraid like something would happen. So. But I didn't. So even though I was sheltered like that, like, I didn't think any like I didn't think the world was against me or the world was scary, or so I don't think.
00;16;30;24 - 00;16;35;22
Dori
So. I think maybe I would be more like the older brother Henry.
00;16;36;04 - 00;16;50;10
Stacey
it all comes down to isolation. When you isolate people, that's how they get messed up, because isolation causes so many things. First of all, they could put prisoners in isolation and it makes them go literally insane, you know what I mean?
00;16;50;13 - 00;17;11;05
Stacey
So, maybe it's the same thing when you're isolated. And most of the time cults isolate you. They try to systematically sort of tear down other relationships so that you only hear what they're saying, and then they are able to manipulate you. But I don't think people are easily manipulated when they're out in the world because they can see other things.
00;17;11;05 - 00;17;21;10
Stacey
They can talk to other people and engage in other conversations. And that's why the Henry thing is so amazing to me, that he was able to, to to think, to think outside the box.
00;17;21;10 - 00;17;24;27
Unknown
Oh. They.
00;17;24;27 - 00;17;42;15
Dori
again, didn't start murdering people. Maybe his brother, because they did find the heads like he could have been hit by a shovel or something, but he didn't until the mother died. Right? Like that's when he started.
00;17;42;17 - 00;18;03;12
Dori
he wasn't really young when he started it. He started right it when she passed away and kept her like place the room where she lived in perfect condition while the house looked like absolute shit, like there was stuff everywhere. Everywhere, no.
00;18;03;12 - 00;18;04;10
Stacey
Electricity.
00;18;04;10 - 00;18;17;06
Stacey
they had to come in with flashlights. They had no idea what they were entering into. If can you imagine this guy bumps into somebody, is like puts his flashlight on it and it's a woman decapitated, hanging like a piece of meat.
00;18;17;09 - 00;18;28;14
Stacey
And, you know, I think he was, you know, it's like a haunted house. And then he said at one point he stuck his finger in something. He's like, I couldn't resist sticking my finger in this bag. And he pulls out a lock of hair.
00;18;31;03 - 00;19;01;19
Speaker 3
They went in investigating with flashlights. It was pitch black because there was no electricity and no lights. And one of the men felt something bump against the shoulder. He turned, shine his flashlight on that, and indeed there was Benny's warden. Hanging from the rafters upside down, with their head off and gutted like a deer.
00;19;01;19 - 00;19;07;12
Stacey
So I mean this. See, to me, I wonder if he was really like, I'm going to kill you.
00;19;07;12 - 00;19;10;09
Stacey
Was he evil? Or was it just like, boom! And that's.
00;19;10;11 - 00;19;11;04
Dori
About shot.
00;19;11;08 - 00;19;18;14
Stacey
About. Yeah, it's all about getting just getting to the next level, which was the body, you know, getting the body getting.
00;19;18;14 - 00;19;41;17
Dori
But he only right. He only killed two from what they know that we know of. Right. But he was going to the grave site to get all these other women. And here's the thing. Like you said, he's a meek little man. Yeah, he would have to like, I dig up, I have no strength. I have no strength. Like I could never climb up the rope in.
00;19;41;23 - 00;19;45;11
Stacey
He must have been strong, was I was never able to.
00;19;45;14 - 00;19;55;08
Dori
The present evidence. What was at the president test where you had to do like, a chin up or pull like you had to run the shuttle? The. I could never do that.
00;19;55;08 - 00;19;56;21
Stacey
You didn't do that.
00;19;56;23 - 00;20;29;07
Dori
Right. Okay, so it's like you say, Ed Jean had the shovel strong. Had to shovel and pull up these caskets, and then he got the body. She must have been shoveling for like, 6 to 8 hours to get that. How much he needed to get these women out so that he could make earrings out of their own ears.
00;20;29;10 - 00;20;32;07
Stacey
Nipple necklaces, nipple necklaces.
00;20;33;04 - 00;20;46;25
Speaker 2
And investigators were completely stunned and appalled to discover this incredible collection of human body objects. And among the things they found were Super Bowls that had been made from the tops of human skulls.
00;20;47;02 - 00;20;51;23
Speaker 2
They found, a shade pole that was made from, a set of woman's lips.
00;20;51;23 - 00;21;08;07
Speaker 3
And they had found other body parts there. Then you'd gone into what would be like a living room, and they found furniture, a lampshade that, was was made out of human skin, chairs that were upholstered in human skin.
00;21;08;23 - 00;21;20;26
Speaker 2
They found face masks. Jean had apparently flayed the skin from the from the heads of the victims and preserve them and stuffed them with paper and hung them on the wall as decorations.
00;21;22;01 - 00;21;31;02
Stacey
do you think now would be an appropriate time to bring in the doctor?
00;21;31;04 - 00;21;33;09
Dori
I mean, I have so many questions.
00;21;33;11 - 00;21;49;21
Stacey
I do too, and I'm at this point now where, you know, you and I are shooting the shit and, you know, we're both, you know, we're very easygoing people. We could never be manipulated. But I want to hear Doctor John's opinion about what he thinks of, and I have a lot of questions for him.
00;21;49;21 - 00;21;53;21
Unknown
Oh. They.
00;21;53;21 - 00;21;54;25
Dori
doctor.
00;21;54;27 - 00;21;58;25
Dr. John
Know I've been waiting in the wings here. Should I come in here now?
00;21;58;27 - 00;22;01;11
Stacey
You can come from behind the curtain, doctor.
00;22;01;18 - 00;22;30;03
Dr. John
Thank you for having me back. I was nervous getting fired from this gig here, you know, not that I need another gig in my life, but you don't. But I want to make a statement before I, answer any questions. If I had the power to do this, I think you both could have an honorary psychology degree. Because I meant much of what you said is so right on in your questioning, an investigation of this, cases.
00;22;30;06 - 00;22;43;14
Dr. John
You know, that's where we would go professionally with some of these things. So anyway, let's start with some questions and then I'll ramble. I've got I've got a lot to say as well. You guys were great. And you're I guess.
00;22;43;16 - 00;23;04;24
Stacey
I guess a big question for me. And sorry if I'm cutting you off because I have a lot, this might take a second session of us asking you questions, but how did ed how was how was the person able to turn off the gross factor and do these things without feeling, without being nauseated or like, how do you turn that up?
00;23;04;24 - 00;23;14;03
Stacey
How does somebody go into is it like when you're a Nazi and you just do things without thinking, you shoot? I mean, what is that mentality? Two different.
00;23;14;03 - 00;23;39;01
Dr. John
Concepts. You know, we can get into these maybe in some. Yeah. You, because they were following orders. Ed was following right. Own orders and his own view. I if there's one big advance that I have given the field about these killers, it's that the only way we can get to really understand them is we have to get into their world view, which we.
00;23;39;03 - 00;23;58;02
Dr. John
What most sane people would say. It's crazy. But what is crazy? Crazy is defined by social norms. How everybody else behaves. And that answers your question, Stacy. Is it? How could he do that? He saw nothing wrong in doing it.
00;23;58;02 - 00;24;03;01
Dr. John
look at when he was arrested. And he goes, yeah, kind of meek and mild.
00;24;03;01 - 00;24;12;04
Dr. John
Yeah. I mean I did all these things, you know, there was no, you know, anger, hate. And if I can take off for a second, I think that's.
00;24;12;09 - 00;24;13;16
Stacey
That's what I mean.
00;24;13;19 - 00;24;20;16
Dr. John
Yeah, that's a huge part of what you guys are talking about. Is that he didn't do these things with hate.
00;24;20;18 - 00;24;21;01
Stacey
Right?
00;24;21;07 - 00;24;45;05
Dr. John
You know, he did not do it. What we see and, especially, like, spree killers. And sadly, we had an incident today where a shooting at Florida State University, there's a whole different big difference between the serial killers and spree killers. The spree killers or, you know, shooters, etc.. They hate. There's something they hate. They hate you.
00;24;45;05 - 00;25;11;06
Dr. John
Manatee. Look at that. Mahogany cabinets. You know, he hated this, executive for and he hated the healthcare system and insurance etc.. Notice the difference between Ed and what he did. He didn't do these things that hate in fact it was almost like they were trophies. And he you know elevated things. So that's key.
00;25;11;06 - 00;25;40;24
Dr. John
We have again it's all about getting into his worldview. And one last thing. And I'll want to get your comments. How can a person do this? We often forget both of you in our audience that at core were animals. You know, if you go through history and this is where history is a great teacher, you know, there's some really brutal things that society did in early England.
00;25;40;24 - 00;26;05;28
Dr. John
I forget the dates, but people would walk around London with knives and swords and randomly a person would just stab another person, often for no reason. We're pretty primitive and Ed is a very primitive guy. But again, it's not. It's animalistic. It's base activity. It's not sophisticated activity. That's where he's not part of the normal.
00;26;05;28 - 00;26;30;25
Dori
But I think that there's also question, you know, you mentioned like the spree versus serial but is again a true serial killer. I don't know if he is because he killed and I don't know what the to be honest. I really don't know like what the difference is. And it was he like was there psychosis was he sketch up like like yeah.
00;26;30;25 - 00;26;40;26
Dori
Was he or did he have he didn't kill before the mother like we said. So what can you talk a little. Yeah I'm like I'm.
00;26;40;26 - 00;27;11;11
Dr. John
Dying to talk about that. I'm dying to talk about that because you brought this up earlier, Dory. And, the question of why did he start to kill after his mother died? Well, I think the death of his mother gave him freedom to do what he did. Now, we always see a progression of violence in these people. So much of the material that we have on Ed doesn't talk about his early years.
00;27;11;13 - 00;27;32;17
Dr. John
I would suspect that he killed animals that we all suspect, especially from all the data we have. He probably killed his brother. And that was a tipping point for him. That was the point where I can do this. And then when mom dies, boom! The the doors are open.
00;27;32;17 - 00;27;33;24
Stacey
Sky is the limit.
00;27;33;26 - 00;28;07;25
Dr. John
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So I think mom's death was permission more than anything else. And another thing you guys brought up, and I want to get into real quick, before I lose the thought. And that is. Is he psychotic? Yeah, he's a crazy man, no question. And we get that evidence from the brother. I mean, even though we have this absolute, also crazy mom, we have a brother who was relatively, you know, normal as much as we can say.
00;28;07;28 - 00;28;31;21
Dr. John
So there was something going on with Ed, inherently, we call it functional, you know, that there was a mental illness going on, guaranteed. But there's many people out there walking the streets with mental illness and, you know, working and having families, etc., that don't kill. So there's a lot of things that, contribute here.
00;28;32;15 - 00;28;51;13
Dori
we also didn't mention, too, that his father was an alcoholic as well, like a raging. So there was like the substance abuse side of things. And even though this didn't get into if either child had any of that, definitely with.
00;28;52;20 - 00;29;03;22
Dori
Definitely with Henry. Henry went a it sounds like Henry went against the grain more than Ed did, that Ed was just entrenched in this world.
00;29;03;25 - 00;29;11;10
Dr. John
Yes. And and again, it goes back to the mom. You guys hit it on the head. I hope you don't mind me saying you guys. But.
00;29;11;16 - 00;29;12;15
Stacey
Yeah, we're offended.
00;29;12;23 - 00;29;14;22
Dori
I'm wearing a mustache right now.
00;29;14;22 - 00;29;16;07
Stacey
I don't know. Fine.
00;29;16;10 - 00;29;25;27
Dr. John
I know these are our opening episodes, but I don't know what to call you guys. Yeah. Ladies, babes, you know, supermodels.
00;29;25;28 - 00;29;40;19
Stacey
Names, bitches. You know, here's the deal. Dorie and I are going to go to the table again and decide whether or not you're worthy to spend time with us. Okay? So keep watching.
00;29;40;21 - 00;29;51;23
Dr. John
Every episode is an audition for me, Well, let me tell you. Keep going. It just don't pick that guy that was in the, the documentary this doctor earned. I hope he's not.
00;29;51;26 - 00;29;53;20
Stacey
Oh, yeah. No, let's not get him.
00;29;53;20 - 00;30;16;25
Dr. John
What was the big point he made? Which I totally, totally disagree with? One of his, his last statements was we we just can never find out and explain what goes on with these people. Guess what, doctor? Yes, we can. Yes we can. We we can figure out and understand why this happens is you gotta dig into it.
00;30;16;25 - 00;30;44;01
Dr. John
It takes a, not only psychology and, you know, clinical observation. It takes a little bit of, investigative or, you know, police kind of attitude. And that's kind of why I'm brought in cases because I didn't have both. So we can explain what's going on with these people and why they did it. Now, we took off when I was, you know, asking about ladies or brides or, you know, it's it's.
00;30;44;03 - 00;31;18;27
Dr. John
Yeah, the point I wanted to make was that this whole thing of his mom and the difference between Henry. See here, here, doctor, aren't. You know, we're going to disagree with you, and we can explain some things. This goes back to if you're primitive, if you're low IQ, if you're almost childlike, like Ed was in a lot of ways, and I think you guys might agree, you ladies, then what is your again goes back to world view.
00;31;18;29 - 00;31;24;25
Dr. John
Think it think of children as they grow up. Your world view is just your parents.
00;31;24;27 - 00;31;25;15
Stacey
Right?
00;31;25;18 - 00;31;32;03
Dr. John
Until you get like into pre-adolescent years and then adolescent years, then your world kind of opens up.
00;31;32;18 - 00;32;02;11
Dr. John
And being so primitive and probably having a mental illness and this gentle guy, his whole world was mommy as opposed to Henry. So everything that mommy said was like, that was his Bible. You know, it was like, this is what's going on. And it again, it wasn't an anger towards women that even though his mother exposed that, I think he was making trophies in it, you know, what's the term celebrating?
00;32;02;16 - 00;32;09;16
Stacey
Yeah, well, we shouldn't at the same time. Yeah, we did, I should be I totally should be a shrink. I don't know why I didn't go to school. I might go know.
00;32;09;22 - 00;32;12;22
Dr. John
Sure, I can go online and get the ability to give you guys degrees.
00;32;12;24 - 00;32;13;17
Stacey
Yeah. Perfect.
00;32;13;17 - 00;32;17;13
Unknown
Oh. They.
00;32;17;13 - 00;32;22;19
Stacey
do you think Ed was a little bit simple, like, was he criminal?
00;32;22;25 - 00;32;24;14
Dr. John
No. He had all be.
00;32;24;14 - 00;32;26;00
Stacey
Primitive or.
00;32;26;02 - 00;32;44;14
Dr. John
Primitive and like, I like the word because it it wraps up IQ, you know. So skills, dependency, you know, etc.. He was this is, this is our definition of primitive ed game, you know, just a guy.
00;32;44;17 - 00;32;45;07
Stacey
Yeah.
00;32;45;07 - 00;32;46;26
Dr. John
didn't even know how to keep his house, you know.
00;32;46;26 - 00;32;55;16
Stacey
Oh no, he didn't he didn't have electricity or running water. I don't yeah. Dorie, did you have something because. Because I'm dying to ask one more and. But I want you to first.
00;32;55;17 - 00;33;03;00
Dori
No, go for it. I'll ask for you. I know we both have so much like. I know, I just I want to ask you. There's so much I want to.
00;33;03;03 - 00;33;06;12
Stacey
I just want to get in John's brain. So, Doctor John,
00;33;06;12 - 00;33;18;20
Stacey
If you were brought in to evaluate again, what would you say? And also, when you're bringing brought in to evaluate, evaluate criminals, what is the purpose and intention of doing so?
00;33;18;20 - 00;33;23;27
Stacey
Like what is what are you looking for? Are you are you're not a forensic psychologist, are you?
00;33;24;04 - 00;33;25;22
Dr. John
Oh, yes. Sure.
00;33;25;24 - 00;33;28;11
Stacey
Oh, so you are a forensic. Yeah, I maybe should.
00;33;28;15 - 00;33;30;12
Dr. John
Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you.
00;33;30;15 - 00;33;45;05
Stacey
Yeah. We should have interviewed you. I've known you for 30 years, and yet that's newest. I've learned something new. You are a forensic psychologist. So tell us if you came in to to study again and to give some information, what would you say?
00;33;45;07 - 00;34;10;26
Dr. John
That it's singular. You're brought in as you know, the doctor, the expert, to really find out if he is insane, which is a legal term. Do you stand trial or not? And notice in the documentary, you know, they put him away and, you know, clearly he did the, the murders. So you have to lock somebody like this up, right?
00;34;11;01 - 00;34;31;08
Dr. John
Notice that he was at first put into a hospital for the criminally insane. And then when he was deemed that he was, you know, safe to go into a prison population, he's gone back and he's, I think he was almost like retried. And you know, then he could go like.
00;34;31;09 - 00;34;38;00
Dori
He stood trial. They, they deemed that he was okay to stand trial, but then he went back to the institution. Right, right, right.
00;34;38;05 - 00;34;51;25
Dr. John
So so to answer Stacy's question, you have one job, which is to give the courts, the police, whoever, the determination whether he can stand trial or is he legally insane?
00;34;51;25 - 00;34;58;11
Dr. John
that has a wide bandwidth with, by the way. It's hard to say bandwidth, by the way.
00;34;58;13 - 00;34;59;13
Stacey
About bandwidth, by the way.
00;34;59;17 - 00;35;01;01
Dr. John
By bandwidth, by the way,
00;35;01;01 - 00;35;04;24
Unknown
Oh. They.
00;35;04;24 - 00;35;11;19
Stacey
could again be rehabilitated. No no.
00;35;11;21 - 00;35;12;23
Dr. John
No.
00;35;12;25 - 00;35;18;23
Stacey
Okay. Not at all. Like even because he's mild mannered. Was there a way that somebody could get in there and really.
00;35;18;23 - 00;35;23;02
Dr. John
Get in a general society, but within a prison?
00;35;23;03 - 00;35;23;25
Stacey
I just wanted to know.
00;35;23;27 - 00;35;49;17
Dr. John
Within a prison setting, you know, this individual has to be cared for like they're in a box. You do this right there. Any, any, any function. Well, you know, as you guys pointed out, that he was a model prisoner because he just did what he's supposed to do in his whole life. Nobody did that. Nobody said, hey, you know, you don't dig up graves and take people's nipples.
00;35;49;17 - 00;35;51;00
Dr. John
You know, it's like it's.
00;35;51;00 - 00;36;12;14
Stacey
It's amazing he got that from you believe he got that from his mother's teachings. He's like, well, maybe. So. Instead of falling in love with the woman and marrying her, maybe I'll just, you know, collect nipples, collect body parts and and store them in my home, like, you know what I mean? So it really like twists. Now, Dori did you have an additional question I want to make?
00;36;12;15 - 00;36;46;20
Dori
So I in addition to this documentary, I also because I, you know, I, I was then oh I gotta find out more about him. I watched, The World's Most Evil Killers on Peacock and the episode on Ed Gein, and one of the things that they had mentioned is and kind of going like piggybacking off of what the doctor just said, he did do well in the institution, and it was because the thinking is he had routine.
00;36;46;20 - 00;37;07;20
Dori
and I don't know if that what your thoughts are on that, that he went in for, I don't know, the first in 11 years. Then he went to trial and they said, bring him back to the institution and lived out his life until he passed away from cancer. But, what do you think about that?
00;37;07;20 - 00;37;23;02
Dori
Like because the mother obviously gave him that routine, right? Like that was I mean, and then she died and then, like you said, like he was like a free for all, like, okay, now I can just go in.
00;37;23;05 - 00;37;25;23
Stacey
You know, no structure, no structure.
00;37;25;23 - 00;37;39;22
Dori
Like. But was it an evil intent or was it just a, like, I can do whatever I want. And then he goes back into the institution where he has that right, and then he's, you know, quote unquote, okay.
00;37;39;25 - 00;37;48;15
Dr. John
Remind me to talk about evil because you guys brought that up right before, I guess. Right. I'm here. I want to talk, but let me address the first part of your question.
00;37;48;15 - 00;38;14;24
Dr. John
His mother gave him the rules of life per her purview. Right. Women. Right? Yeah. You know, the Bible is truth, and, you know, kind of. Well, this what? Whatever. So he's controlled. He's controlled in prison. And that's what we. If I can wax philosophical here about the whole field of mental health for a second, and also gives the audience some of my, my prejudices.
00;38;14;26 - 00;38;41;03
Dr. John
You know, that's a problem with how we treat these severely mentally ill people in the age of, therapist. Well, you know, if that's something you like to do. Well, then I guess it's okay. As long as you're not hurting someone. When I treat people in therapy, there are rules. There are things we know in the science of this field that you got to go.
00;38;41;06 - 00;38;49;14
Dr. John
No, you don't do that. Sorry. This is not appropriate. So you see rules and and Stacey said the
00;38;49;14 - 00;38;52;11
Dr. John
the right word which is structure.
00;38;52;13 - 00;38;53;03
Stacey
Right.
00;38;53;06 - 00;39;19;01
Dr. John
It's very important for a severely mentally ill person to have structure. And that's why he held it together. When mom was living. If she had ever found out he was digging up graves and, you know, taking nipples and vaginas and things like that, she would have probably went ape on him. And, you know, whatever. But she again, as I said before, she dies and boom.
00;39;19;05 - 00;39;20;28
Dr. John
Katie, the door.
00;39;20;28 - 00;39;24;00
Stacey
that being said, I had two things to ask.
00;39;24;00 - 00;39;30;13
Stacey
How does a person, you know, this is like, you know, pun intended, put on a mask of sanity if they're insane.
00;39;30;13 - 00;39;31;26
Dori
Like, how does how.
00;39;31;26 - 00;39;38;13
Stacey
Does somebody how do you do that? I mean, it's just it's incredible to me that that's a thing.
00;39;38;14 - 00;39;50;28
Dr. John
You see, that's that's probably another case where we should really talk about. Ed didn't do that, you know, they didn't know, no. Everybody knew. He was like the town weirdo, you know, which is a.
00;39;51;01 - 00;39;54;01
Stacey
Babysat. It said he babysat people's kids. Can you imagine?
00;39;54;01 - 00;39;55;24
Dr. John
Imagine. Hey, kids, I.
00;39;55;24 - 00;39;57;00
Stacey
Want to play ball.
00;39;57;06 - 00;39;57;22
Dr. John
Yeah. So he.
00;39;57;23 - 00;39;58;07
Stacey
Read.
00;39;58;13 - 00;40;10;05
Dr. John
That, and and I think that, you know, they did not think he was normal, but he was probably available and probably cheap, you know, didn't cost. They don't care.
00;40;10;08 - 00;40;11;16
Stacey
Yeah.
00;40;11;18 - 00;40;16;09
Dr. John
So no, he didn't put on a mask of normality.
00;40;16;11 - 00;40;17;03
Stacey
You guys know he.
00;40;17;03 - 00;40;33;26
Dr. John
Did that, worked with them. Said you know he was always kind of strange. You know, he was always. But he was a good worker, you know. So we forgive him, you know, etc.. So, that this doesn't apply to Ed, maybe it'll be on some future cases where we can talk about, you know, maybe Bundee or something like.
00;40;33;27 - 00;40;46;14
Stacey
Yeah, because it's weird, you know, like Bundy, you know, there's this sort of, disconnect and dis like, disassociation. And so I just think it's interesting, but one other thing about Ed and his appearance is that he has this.
00;40;46;14 - 00;40;47;27
Dori
Posture.
00;40;47;29 - 00;40;57;20
Stacey
That was almost it was like he had this pristine, upright, perfect posture. There was nothing sort of, you know.
00;40;57;23 - 00;40;59;26
Dr. John
Like I can just imagine what was.
00;40;59;28 - 00;41;01;04
Stacey
About him, you know.
00;41;01;06 - 00;41;03;24
Dr. John
And mommy saying, stand up straight, Eddie.
00;41;03;24 - 00;41;12;26
Stacey
Yes. Yeah. He just the posture that he had, it just showed me that he was trained. It felt like he was trained. Well, of course, you know.
00;41;13;00 - 00;41;18;02
Dr. John
Doris said something and I really loved her comment. You know, he was a looker. You know, he was.
00;41;18;05 - 00;41;18;19
Stacey
He was.
00;41;18;20 - 00;41;20;10
Dr. John
Some guy, which is important.
00;41;20;16 - 00;41;22;00
Dori
She admired.
00;41;22;02 - 00;41;30;15
Dr. John
Yeah. It's important for us all to know about, these people, you know, played. They look like anybody else.
00;41;30;15 - 00;41;33;22
Unknown
Oh. They.
00;41;33;22 - 00;41;43;26
Dori
what about the fact that he wore that, female skin suit and paraded around?
00;41;43;26 - 00;42;08;00
Dori
Is there do you think, doctor, is there any possibility that he was past trans, transgender, a cross-dresser? Is there any thinking of that correlation? Is it just like, why would he wear it? Like, did he want to be his mother? Did he want to be a woman? What do you think about that?
00;42;08;02 - 00;42;34;27
Dr. John
I think your last statement is where I would go with it again. We wouldn't. I wouldn't be able to diagnose whether he was transgender or gay, etc., without, you know, talking to him and and digging a little deeper. But I will say to me, for Ed, again, we go back to that primitiveness and that almost undeveloped person, that kind of experimentation is I'm going to shock you guys.
00;42;34;27 - 00;42;58;06
Dr. John
Is not that uncommon with kids, is they, explore sexuality. There's a lot of very macho, male, heterosexual men walking around this world that when they were eight, nine, ten years old, they they tried on mommy's dress and and maybe have masturbated, you know. Yeah.
00;42;58;08 - 00;43;00;18
Dori
But this is an older man.
00;43;00;21 - 00;43;02;27
Dr. John
But with the undeveloped ness of him.
00;43;02;27 - 00;43;08;07
Dori
But the young bright. Because he was. You're saying he's childlike even as he he he looks.
00;43;08;10 - 00;43;11;09
Dr. John
At a developmental period that was just stopped.
00;43;11;12 - 00;43;23;11
Stacey
And it's it's so interesting that you say that because one of my questions which you're answering was, did his mother stunt his growth by infantilizing him, like making him making him so, just. Baby.
00;43;23;12 - 00;43;29;26
Dr. John
Yes. She might have seen she couldn't do that with Henry for whatever reason. And so that's her little boy, you know, that's her little child.
00;43;29;26 - 00;43;32;06
Stacey
And project. Her little project.
00;43;32;08 - 00;43;32;24
Dr. John
Yeah. Which I.
00;43;32;24 - 00;43;33;22
Stacey
Wouldn't.
00;43;33;24 - 00;43;45;11
Dr. John
To see, you know, even at his age, you know, had a spoonful of, oatmeal and open your mouth. There comes the plane, you know, and the train, you know, treated him like and and, you know, etc..
00;43;45;14 - 00;44;02;25
Stacey
I mean, you know, this whole thing about the woman, the Oedipal come complex. What what happened to the mother? I mean, think about that. What what is the psychology behind fanaticism for her? And this is a bigger topic, but just a brief briefly and again, we've got.
00;44;02;27 - 00;44;31;10
Dr. John
To make an only guess. And the the key is always the key with the woman like that is what happened in this marriage. You know, the guy was an alcoholic. Again, let's just extrapolate. I'll just based on cases that I've worked on the guy was alcoholic, maybe physically abusive, and, controlling and cutting her down. So the only refuge that she had was the Bible, you know, and following the Lord.
00;44;31;10 - 00;45;03;25
Dr. John
That. And now she did have the the ball, shall we say. There's a clinical term to leave him in and get away, you know, from him, with the kids, which would be, wow, there's some there's some health there. But I got a feeling that that marriage was the key to, you know, just breaking this woman. And yet this kind of world, this kind of society, they she might have married this guy when she was, you know, 17, 18, something like that, and just dominated by this.
00;45;03;25 - 00;45;11;18
Dr. John
And from a primitive background. And this is what you do, you follow the man, you know, because the man is, you know, King.
00;45;11;20 - 00;45;12;13
Stacey
Right.
00;45;14;12 - 00;45;28;03
Stacey
I want to know your opinion. Which character from pop culture, with the Texas Chainsaw, the Buffalo Bill, the Norman Bates. Which character creeps you out the most?
00;45;28;03 - 00;45;40;20
Dr. John
I want to add another one to the list that it's going to surprise everybody. I would add another inspiration for this character came from Ed Gein, and that's this series that was just on, about a year ago.
00;45;40;22 - 00;45;45;02
Stacey
Oh, you mean you mean are you talking about. No, you're talking about the penguin.
00;45;45;07 - 00;45;46;09
Dr. John
The penguin? The penguin.
00;45;46;09 - 00;45;46;29
Dori
That's the one.
00;45;46;29 - 00;45;50;09
Stacey
Oh, my God, did you watch the penguin? Dory.
00;45;50;11 - 00;45;54;24
Dori
No, I couldn't get through the first episode, but I know what we're talking about.
00;45;54;25 - 00;46;04;18
Stacey
Look at the. I watch that episode. I watched the entire thing I did. All I did was walk around and tell people, and they go, is that Marvel? No, I don't want to watch it. I'm like, no, you've got to watch this. This is this.
00;46;04;18 - 00;46;05;11
Dori
Is great.
00;46;05;11 - 00;46;07;20
Stacey
Acting. And what are you going to say, John?
00;46;07;27 - 00;46;15;28
Dr. John
People watch that series again. There was a lot of Ed Gein and Mommy aspects to it. You know, I got a feeling that.
00;46;16;01 - 00;46;16;13
Dori
Oh.
00;46;16;13 - 00;46;17;07
Stacey
Right.
00;46;17;09 - 00;46;25;25
Dr. John
I have I have a feeling that the writer, you know, had that somehow in their unconscious or consciousness as they released.
00;46;25;28 - 00;46;26;06
Stacey
To your.
00;46;26;06 - 00;46;27;11
Dr. John
Mother. Eddie.
00;46;27;13 - 00;46;49;24
Dori
I do think that question is interesting. And I know we've got to kind of wrap it up here soon, but I would say never honest. The unassuming, the unassuming, crazy to me is scarier like that. You see who I identify with or who is no.
00;46;49;27 - 00;46;53;21
Stacey
No, no, I don't think any of us identify with. Right. I want to know.
00;46;53;23 - 00;47;17;19
Dori
What you are. Harry is the scariest. Yes. The scariest to me is definitely the unassuming. So anyone who presents themself as normal, quote, normal. Like like Ted Bundy, right? I didn't watch Texas. I've never seen that. But again, I know the reference. I know all of that. But that person look like a crazy person. Like with the mask on.
00;47;17;24 - 00;47;20;24
Dori
It's always to me, the person.
00;47;20;27 - 00;47;50;26
Dr. John
It's going to be. Interesting to answer Stacy's question, in my view. I agree with you, Dory. I don't I'm not attracted to, slasher movies and all that because it's so outrageous. And so and this is not what you see. It's the it's the unknown, you know, it's the person that, you know, walking amongst us and just, you know, can at any point just flip like we just kind of saw with Eddie, you know, mom dies, he boom.
00;47;50;29 - 00;48;09;14
Stacey
And you see that with us in the Penguin where, you know, his mother, he it was everything was about his mother and protecting his mother and her his mother most more like Augusta manipulated the crap out of him. Yeah. Oh, honey, you're going to be the best he is. You're going to.
00;48;09;14 - 00;48;10;14
Dori
Be the best.
00;48;10;20 - 00;48;14;21
Stacey
Thank you. Mommy kissing. Because it's just really creepy.
00;48;14;24 - 00;48;35;13
Dr. John
It's very much. I think that would be a great portrayal of Eddie and his mom. You know? I'm sure. Yeah. And this stuff went on well with your mom, and that's why the. What can I do? Lying to her in the house, right? Is I just I want to do everything for mom. I'm. I'm keeping her world. You know, the same.
00;48;35;16 - 00;48;36;02
Dori
You know, you're.
00;48;36;03 - 00;48;55;06
Stacey
You're so right. Gosh. A penguin killed his. Who did he kill? Brother. He left him in the, Left him in the sewer. The tunnel. Horrible, horrible scene. Dory, I know you couldn't get through it, but the thought of that, the fact that they were locked up. And then he went home and he was watching movies with his mom.
00;48;55;08 - 00;49;00;15
Stacey
And there was this feeling where you knew as the audience that these kids were, like, screaming, oh my.
00;49;00;15 - 00;49;01;07
Dr. John
God, Stacy.
00;49;01;07 - 00;49;03;02
Stacey
This time passes. It's because.
00;49;03;02 - 00;49;05;23
Dr. John
I think of the parallel ad the killed his.
00;49;05;23 - 00;49;07;18
Stacey
Brother. I know, I know.
00;49;07;21 - 00;49;12;08
Dr. John
The Penguin has killed his brother. Yeah. This writer was influenced by Eddie. This.
00;49;12;10 - 00;49;13;05
Stacey
Yeah. I mean, it was.
00;49;13;05 - 00;49;27;19
Dr. John
Let's add him to the list of. Let's get this. I think Dory's right. Let's get back to your question. Of all these iterations of Ed, what is the scariest for you? And I think Dory said it was the one who, you know, which one would you say? Dory.
00;49;27;21 - 00;49;28;23
Dori
Norman Bates.
00;49;28;23 - 00;49;30;18
Dori
it would definitely be
00;49;30;18 - 00;49;31;23
Dori
the Norman Bates,
00;49;31;23 - 00;49;48;04
Dori
those that really, truly though are smart and honest. So not the again I mean he presented again tone unquote. But he was odd but it's those who are very intelligent to me that you'd never know. And they are psychotic. Those are the ones that scare me the most.
00;49;48;09 - 00;49;48;17
Dori
Yeah.
00;49;48;19 - 00;49;51;26
Stacey
That that is that's an I totally agree with you.
00;49;51;26 - 00;49;53;02
Stacey
So
00;49;53;12 - 00;50;12;12
Stacey
This character Ed Gein influenced so much, pop culture. And they say that he was the, the most kind of the most famous and the most gruesome, which is hard to believe. For me, I mean, I think it's gross, but I don't know why it's the grossest.
00;50;12;14 - 00;50;16;18
Dori
But maybe I think because his house of horrors. Because of what he did.
00;50;16;18 - 00;50;19;24
Dr. John
Yeah. The shoe on the on the body parts and.
00;50;19;24 - 00;50;28;22
Dori
Yeah, that's why it was the most disgusting. But I don't think I don't know, after watching a ton of these, I don't know if he was the most ruthless.
00;50;28;24 - 00;50;31;15
Stacey
Exactly, exactly. Well, you know.
00;50;31;15 - 00;50;43;29
Dr. John
What I'm reading here? The the ruthlessness of killers. Dahmer is up there. But I think even Ed Ed takes Dahmer's actions to another level. You know, he does.
00;50;43;29 - 00;51;12;17
Stacey
But Dahmer to me, and I know we I know we're wrapping. But Dahmer was, to me, a walking around society that was scary to me because he was cute and would hang out in bars and people liked him, and he was kind of adorable and drinking beers, you know? And that is so scary to me. But that's another example of of primitive, which you're saying primitive behavior, which could only allow him to,
00;51;12;17 - 00;51;15;03
Stacey
eat a human heart and to store all that stuff.
00;51;15;03 - 00;51;18;16
Stacey
But for me, Dahmer is scarier than Dean
00;51;18;16 - 00;51;22;05
Unknown
Oh. They.
00;51;22;05 - 00;51;34;18
Stacey
I am so excited for us to continue this amazing journey talking about cults, crimes, and killers, and I couldn't think of a better team than Doctor Mia. And so I hope.
00;51;34;21 - 00;51;37;03
Dr. John
I can make it to the next episode.
00;51;37;05 - 00;51;40;19
Stacey
We'll talk. I mean, Dorie and I have a meeting. We have a three hour meeting.
00;51;40;21 - 00;51;43;20
Dori
I'm already voting. You're in. Oh, he said.
00;51;43;27 - 00;51;45;21
Stacey
All right, Chinese in. He's in.
00;51;45;22 - 00;51;48;00
Dori
He's in for all the. He's in for all of them.
00;51;48;00 - 00;51;54;01
Stacey
Until you and I get our degrees in, in in psych, we can do, like, an online course. So I think there's.
00;51;54;01 - 00;52;00;22
Dr. John
Got to be in one of these universities that are jams, you know, like 57 bucks, and you can get a PhD or something.
00;52;00;22 - 00;52;07;03
Stacey
perfect. Well, this has been a perfectly disgusting episode, and I can't wait to see you guys again.
00;52;07;06 - 00;52;08;20
Dr. John
Take care.
00;52;08;22 - 00;52;09;20
Stacey
You do?
00;52;09;26 - 00;52;12;25
Stacey
Candy.
00;52;12;27 - 00;52;22;07
Unknown
I.
00;52;22;09 - 00;52;35;24
Unknown
Wish.