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Mark explores the minds of visionary entrepreneurs who refuse to limit themselves to a single venture to learn how these trailblazers manage risks, innovate across industries, and turn ideas into impact.
Whether you’re scaling your first business or juggling several, this podcast is your ultimate guide to thriving as a parallel entrepreneur.
Chapter 1: Are you already a parallel entrepreneur?
0:000 secondsThe younger you are, the more likely you are to be a parallel entrepreneur, either right now or real soon. I've heard it said to me, "Wow, how do you
0:077 secondsmanage the chaos?" Well, what would happen if it's not chaos? What would happen if it's highly organized, passion-driven, resource allocation made sense.
0:1515 secondsIndividual leadership skills, I would say, are probably the most important component actually to understand what
0:2222 secondsmakes parallel entrepreneurs unique. I see so many people get up against a block and just stop most of the time talking themselves out.
0:3232 secondsObstacle is not something fixed. It's something that changed. So your perception of obstacle change might also provide you with some possible solution or at least well a number of potential [Music] directions. Today's guest is Dr.
0:4545 secondsTobias Kutzewski, researcher, strategist, finance leader, and someone who has spent years studying a question that many founders are actively living.
0:5656 secondsThat question is, what really happens when you build more than one venture at the same time. He's based in Amsterdam.
1:031 minute, 3 secondsTobias researches how entrepreneurs navigate uncertainty, how they manage multiple opportunities, and make decisions with their time, capital, and attention.
1:151 minute, 15 secondshow they're constantly stretched across competing priorities. What drew me to Tobias's work is that he's exploring
1:231 minute, 23 secondssomething we talk about a lot here on the podcast. Not serial entrepreneurship, but parallel entrepreneurship. And in his words,
1:321 minute, 32 secondsportfolio entrepreneurship. The reality is that many founders aren't leaving one thing to start another. They're building interconnected ventures simultaneously.
1:431 minute, 43 secondsIn this conversation, we'll explore tension between focus and expansion, why uncertainty can create opportunity, and
1:501 minute, 50 secondshow entrepreneurs manage complexity over time, whether running multiple ventures actually creates resilience or just more
Chapter 2: What is strategic optionality?
1:591 minute, 59 secondschaos. I feel like I haven't had the time yet to fully understand strategic optionality. How would you explain it to
2:082 minutes, 8 secondsthe audience? Well, the idea of strategic options or strategic optionality
2:152 minutes, 15 secondsactually rests on the assumption that we can't foresee the future. Well, essentially future is unknown to us,
2:232 minutes, 23 secondsuncertain. We don't know in which direction things are developing which essentially requires us to
2:322 minutes, 32 secondsanticipate things that might come up that we do not foresee that we do not yet know at this stage [Sighs and gasps]
2:402 minutes, 40 secondsum but that might fundamentally affect the way we work the way we operate our companies are run everything. So it's
2:482 minutes, 48 secondsactually the idea of having something like if you want to a toolbox of well
2:562 minutes, 56 secondsmeans ways to well to get things done in the future. And not only in hypothetical
3:033 minutes, 3 secondsterms, not only that we think about how things might go on like a scenario or planning that we make um to to work, but
3:133 minutes, 13 secondsalso actually in doing already something um like setting up a small working group
3:233 minutes, 23 secondsor well uh make a strategic investment in uh in a startup or a number of startups.
3:313 minutes, 31 secondsWell to be able to once future is unfolding and we see into which direction a certain market um is
3:393 minutes, 39 secondsdeveloping that we are then able to grasp these opportunities that are there in those in those areas. Um and it's
3:473 minutes, 47 secondsactually the I think the beauty of this idea of strategic optionality actually is that we say well even if we do not
3:573 minutes, 57 secondssee and are unable to anticipate and forecast the future we are still able to benefit from something that might be
4:074 minutes, 7 secondsworthwhile to pursue and to grasp everything that our future provides us with. I think this is I think it is uncertainty that is underlying this idea and to cope with that.
Chapter 3: Recognizing vs. seizing opportunity
4:204 minutes, 20 secondsSo your baseline is uncertainty and you're trying to evaluate whether the decision maker in this case a parallel
4:294 minutes, 29 secondsentrepreneur has the skills, the resources and the tools to address the now when that's
4:364 minutes, 36 secondspresented to them because it was unknown previously and now it's an opportunity or now it's an option. Is this about
4:444 minutes, 44 secondstheir capacity to seize it or is this about their capacity to recognize it?
4:504 minutes, 50 secondsI think it is more their their ability to seize an opportunity instead of well
4:584 minutes, 58 secondsanticipating something because in a very early stage you do not yet know if well a certain venture opportunity is
5:065 minutes, 6 secondscommercially viable. Um also well we cannot foresee into which direction certain uh business ventures are
5:145 minutes, 14 secondsdeveloping [Gasps] and as such we have to recognize and acknowledge our limitations in terms of
5:215 minutes, 21 secondsknowledge um capacities resources everything that comes into play and once you well see opportunities emerging I
5:315 minutes, 31 secondsthink seizing them is what basically distinguish someone from being effective in the long term compared to somebody
5:405 minutes, 40 secondswho is just well having some luck with developing some new ventures in a rather unstructured way in a rather unstructured way. So you
5:485 minutes, 48 secondsthink it's about the structure that's applied to seeing and seizing opportunities?
5:545 minutes, 54 secondsIndeed. Indeed. And I think there is a certain well if you want to say in certain element of well let's call it
6:016 minutes, 1 secondlearning being able to uh acknowledge that your count understanding of a certain market
6:096 minutes, 9 secondssector for instance is um not complete and it will never be complete because
6:166 minutes, 16 secondswhile things are changing and you might be working in a certain area for decades. This does not well mean that
6:246 minutes, 24 secondsthis industry sector might not change or drift or evolve in a certain direction that you did not yet anticipate. Then
6:326 minutes, 32 secondsthen this reference that might be uh not familiar to you, but I remember growing up in and in 1972 there was a an
6:416 minutes, 41 secondsanimated television series called Around the World in 80 Days. I'll never forget the the the main phrase uh that was used
6:496 minutes, 49 secondsby by the main character was the motto of the wise is be prepared for surprises.
6:576 minutes, 57 secondsBrilliant. Lovely indeed. And I think this is this humor or let's say this
7:057 minutes, 5 secondslittle bit of an ironic undertone is what makes it so intriguing, isn't it? I mean you can't prepare for everything
7:117 minutes, 11 secondsbut well be prepared to encounter something that you did not yet well prepare before. So yes that's beautiful.
Chapter 4: Why Tobias began studying parallel entrepreneurs
7:207 minutes, 20 secondsWhat made you decide to follow 21 entrepreneurs for an extended period of time in order to make that your thesis and your area of expertise and your study?
7:317 minutes, 31 secondsBasically comes down to an experience or a number of um successive experience I
7:387 minutes, 38 secondshad once I worked at a venture capital firm. Um I have a background in uh financial management. I'm a certified
7:477 minutes, 47 secondsaccountant and I was always working in in um well finance functions and as an investment and finance manager for this
7:567 minutes, 56 secondsventure capital firm. I uh received occasionally proposals
8:038 minutes, 3 secondsum to invest in their ventures from well business people who would qualify as
8:118 minutes, 11 secondsportfolio or parallel or multi-entrepreneur. I mean the wording is uh I think is doesn't make such a huge uh
8:198 minutes, 19 secondsdifference. It was always were people who did more than one thing at the same time. And we had the policy at this
8:278 minutes, 27 secondsventure capital firm to refuse um venture investment propositions from
8:378 minutes, 37 secondsum startup founders who had multiple ventures running at the same time.
8:438 minutes, 43 secondsbecause of course we wanted to have a dedicated entrepreneur, dedicated team on um on a startup um once we were
8:528 minutes, 52 secondsconsidered this as a valuable investment and um that was rather surprising to me
8:588 minutes, 58 secondsbecause I saw occasionally seeing proposals from
9:069 minutes, 6 secondsparallel entrepreneurs, portfolio entrepreneurs who were well intriguing, fascinating that that good track record.
9:149 minutes, 14 secondsThey made sensible assumptions. Um, essentially I would say well it is it would definitely be worthwhile to
9:219 minutes, 21 secondsconsider um their proposals as a well potential at least as a candidate for future for
9:299 minutes, 29 secondsfuture interviews but um as I said we had this policy to not well include them in our investment funnel. At around the
9:379 minutes, 37 secondssame uh stage I uh saw an advertisement here from a local university that they offered PhD to part-time practitioners
9:469 minutes, 46 secondsworking uh already and to conduct the research well parallel next to their
9:529 minutes, 52 secondsprofessional work and here we are excellent indeed
10:0010 minutes[Clears throat]
10:0910 minutes, 9 secondscame out that well actually this phenomenon that I was not yet aware of parallel entrepreneurship portfolio
10:1610 minutes, 16 secondsentrepreneurship was something that well was was a concept in uh in business
10:2310 minutes, 23 secondsschools that um at that stage deserve and got some some growing attention because strangely enough those people
10:3110 minutes, 31 secondswere doing quite well but they were not yet addressed as being um very specific or very unique in their well economic
10:4010 minutes, 40 secondscontribution or way they organize or coordinate their their affairs. And I thought well this might actually be
10:4810 minutes, 48 secondsquite an interesting topic to um to conduct my my research upon. And then I really just got blessed by the
10:5610 minutes, 56 secondsopportunity to follow those 21 entrepreneurs in the end um over a number of years and well yeah ask them,
11:0611 minutes, 6 secondsfollow them, see how they organized, coordinated, orchestrated their um their
11:1211 minutes, 12 secondstheir ventures over several years and how things changed, how their attitude, how their interests, their intention
11:2011 minutes, 20 secondschanged and what factors there were to will basically organize and structure portfolios the way they did.
Chapter 5: Parallel vs. serial entrepreneurship
11:2811 minutes, 28 secondsThat is precisely what I've been trying to get at uh now hundreds of interviews with entrepreneurs and sorting through
11:3611 minutes, 36 secondswho's a parallel entrepreneur and who's a serial entrepreneur and um let's honor every entrepreneur but let's also try to
11:4511 minutes, 45 secondsdive into this area of study. It is what definitely distinguishes parallel entrepreneurs from all the other form
11:5211 minutes, 52 secondsthat we have. The serial entrepreneurs who do uh develop their ventures and companies um after each other. Nent
12:0012 minutesentrepreneurs who do it at once and once in a lifetime and try to develop their their individual ventures. Portfolio entrepreneurs well have an opportunity.
12:1012 minutes, 10 secondsThey can either say well I do want to develop what I have at the moment. I mean it all starts with being a nent
12:1812 minutes, 18 secondsentrepreneur. At one stage you have a company that is either doing well, prosperous or not. And you might change
12:2612 minutes, 26 secondswell do I going um into the same direction? Do I want to exploit what I do currently have or do I
12:3412 minutes, 34 secondswant to explore new ventures, new avenues? And I think this decision between exploitation and exploration is
12:4312 minutes, 43 secondswhat makes um portfolio entrepreneurs so unique because they do have the opportunity identify for
12:5112 minutes, 51 secondsthemselves to do some either opt for doing more detailed spend more detailed
12:5912 minutes, 59 secondsefforts on their existing activities or to well venture into the unknown and say
13:0713 minutes, 7 secondsWell, I do keep the other uh companies still running and alive, but I see another opportunity or a way to mitigate
13:1713 minutes, 17 secondsmy current risks or to um identify a joint venture to somebody else as a way
13:2513 minutes, 25 secondsto I would say to bring their own intention of
13:3213 minutes, 32 secondsopportunity seeking um to capitalize on abilities on resources into life. And I think it is this very
13:4113 minutes, 41 secondspersonal um intention that uh distinguish habitual entrepreneurs like serial and uh parallel entrepreneurs but
13:4913 minutes, 49 secondsin particular parallel entrepreneurs because they do have um the idea and their understanding that it might be
13:5813 minutes, 58 secondsquite effective to have more than one company at the same time. It gets tricky. I mean I probably don't have to
14:0514 minutes, 5 secondsexplain it to you. you are a seasoned parallel entrepreneur yourself. You know how difficult and challenging it
14:1214 minutes, 12 secondssometimes can be to have more than one uh responsibility to juggle. But still
14:1914 minutes, 19 secondsthere are benefits and I would say that these ability to know yourself your capacity to actually orchestrate those
14:2814 minutes, 28 secondsdifferent well let's say challenges or requirements. I think this makes uh parallel entrepreneurs unique compared with others.
Chapter 6: How Mark manages attention across multiple companies
14:3714 minutes, 37 secondsLet's pretend that you and I are working together, Tobias, and we're on on the same team trying to accomplish something in a company that that I've started. I
14:4614 minutes, 46 secondsmight walk side by side with you for an extended period of time [Clears throat] and then get to the point where the
14:5414 minutes, 54 secondstrust and the confidence is there and I I reach this decision point where I'm
15:0015 minuteslike, "Okay, he's got it. I'm out of here." And I really literally I've been told this by people who criticized me
15:0815 minutes, 8 secondsover the years or contributed to my identity uh and my understanding of this behavior of my own. Anyway, I'm not
15:1715 minutes, 17 secondssaying it's everybody's. I'm just saying I would walk until the trust and confidence was was jeieved and then I would go up to 30,000 ft and operate
15:2615 minutes, 26 secondsthere and then after a period of time I would drop back down to treetops check in with you check in with all the
15:3415 minutes, 34 secondssystems uh inspect and then I trust and confidence is still there let's move and I'm out of your way uh here's a
15:4215 minutes, 42 secondsdirection that we're headed and I retreat back up to 30,000 ft and it's this context switching I call it but
15:5015 minutes, 50 secondsit's a different form it's a drill down it's a drill down understand gain um
15:5615 minutes, 56 secondsgain perspective and context and then disappear so that I'm not in your way um
16:0416 minutes, 4 secondsand I I don't have anything else to learn now it's time for you and the team to execute and I for me as a parallel
16:1216 minutes, 12 secondsentrepreneur I found that to be helpful because I can drill down on company a spend the time necessary, find ways to
16:2016 minutes, 20 secondscollaborate. I could be called down from wherever I'm at 30,000 ft or 10,000 ft.
16:2716 minutes, 27 secondsIt's a metaphor. Wherever my attention is, I'm trying to maintain a wider perspective on the marketplace and on
16:3516 minutes, 35 secondswhat's happening. And then pay my deep dive attention when it makes sense on a calendar, on a schedule when it's necessary, or when I'm called.
16:4316 minutes, 43 secondsBeautiful illustration indeed. And I think it is this ability for yourself that you know that you are able to not
16:5116 minutes, 51 secondsonly well execute your own expert knowledge on certain areas like these T-shaped uh personality
16:5916 minutes, 59 secondstype that we that we sometimes uh identify people with a very profound detailed deep knowledge of
17:0817 minutes, 8 secondslet's say marketing knowledge, sales knowledge, uh technical skills They make it they make those people
17:1617 minutes, 16 secondsextremely valuable at certain stages of a life cycle but their ability also well to then take a step back and not only
17:2417 minutes, 24 secondsone but really zoom out take the overall few and being willing and able to well
17:3217 minutes, 32 secondsthen let the team run the affairs and um I spoke once with a with an entrepreneur
17:3817 minutes, 38 secondsum a parallel entrepreneur himself about how he is going to to coordinate his uh
17:4617 minutes, 46 secondscompanies and he simply said well it's just I can I can do a lot by myself I can't do everything and I do need people
17:5417 minutes, 54 secondsI do the need the people around me to trust and to actually do the work and I thought this was very
18:0318 minutes, 3 secondshumble actually in his expression to say well yes you can identify um tremendous
18:1018 minutes, 10 secondsopportunities in the market um run and initiate initiate a startup but in the end it is something that you have to
18:1818 minutes, 18 secondswell give out of your hands and say well other people are maybe better equipped than myself to develop this venture
18:2718 minutes, 27 secondsfurther and I think this was to me um the idea where I thought oh there's a very yeah let's say social element in it
18:3518 minutes, 35 secondsa very profound well ability to understand your own ability ities but also the abilities of others and see how
18:4418 minutes, 44 secondsto utilize them and bring them in line with what you what you have in mind. So, I view myself then as a talent tracker.
Chapter 7: Finding and deploying the right talent
18:5418 minutes, 54 secondsAnd when I identify highly talented people in my universe, I not only appreciate them and hope that someday
19:0119 minutes, 1 secondI'm going to get to work with them, but I'll pay attention to where they are, how their career is progressing, if they're available, if they're not
19:0919 minutes, 9 secondsavailable. If I have a company that's coming up in in my own rearview mirror and it's it's looking like it's going to
19:1619 minutes, 16 secondsrequire some additional talent, I might know where that talent is already. Um, so I want to talk about how do parallel
19:2519 minutes, 25 secondsentrepreneurs identify, deploy talent in their organizations if it's different, if it's
19:3219 minutes, 32 secondsthe same or if it's just well I'm doing the same thing twice, three times, four times. What's your experience? You have
19:3919 minutes, 39 secondsto know where your own expertise rests. What do you what do you know? And
19:4619 minutes, 46 secondsprobably even more important, what is it that you don't know? And I think that's what I also saw uh from my own um
19:5519 minutes, 55 secondspersonal experience as a I was a startup coach here for an incubator at our local university. And I think it makes a huge
20:0320 minutes, 3 secondsdifference between a successful and a less successful entrepreneur to know
20:0920 minutes, 9 secondswhat areas you are not well at uh at an expert level. And if this is for
20:1720 minutes, 17 secondsinstance recruitment um HR uh developing and acquiring talent then this would be
20:2620 minutes, 26 secondsan area where you should definitely seek to find someone who is more equipped in this field because I would say well in
20:3420 minutes, 34 secondsthe end it is definitely um a human resource a talent game that entrepreneurs are in um and you have to
20:4320 minutes, 43 secondswell search for talent that is well well yeah complementary to what you what your own skill set uh comprises.
20:5320 minutes, 53 secondsAnd I would say that the more effective and successful entrepreneurs are those
21:0021 minutesthat are quickly able to identify people who can complement their own skill set either in technical terms, in
21:0821 minutes, 8 secondsorganizational terms, in creative terms, in indeed talent uh acquisition terms just to make sure that you are not
21:1721 minutes, 17 secondsfalling short on some of these very crucial and pivotal areas that we have to Well, to bring a brainchild actually
Chapter 8: Businesses at different stages of maturity
21:2621 minutes, 26 secondsinto a into a company as a startup coach, what you'd know is if I've got six companies, one of them's
21:3321 minutes, 33 secondsa startup and maybe another one is a an adolescent and another one might be a a
21:4121 minutes, 41 secondssenior in high school by the comparison, right? and another might be something that we're harvesting and and u it's got
21:4921 minutes, 49 secondsa mature management team and a mature market and it's behaving they behave each one of these companies behaves
21:5621 minutes, 56 secondsdifferently um your talent funnel your view to talent and what the business
22:0322 minutes, 3 secondsneeds is is something that I think uh it helps if you've had many of those experiences and you understand where the
22:1122 minutes, 11 secondscompany is if you can really truly map that did you see in your experience all people who had several startups at once
22:1922 minutes, 19 secondsor did you tend to see them have startups on a cadence? What did that look like? In the end I came around um
Chapter 9: Different types of parallel entrepreneurs
22:2722 minutes, 27 secondswell number of instances where really the structures that people were uh developing in the portfolios showed some
22:3622 minutes, 36 secondswell very distinctive characteristics and we had for instance the let's say
22:4322 minutes, 43 secondsthe haphazard entrepreneur who is doing something here and venturing something there completely unrelated
22:5122 minutes, 51 secondsum also no real well connection in terms maturity of a venture and it was more like an ad random uh
23:0123 minutes, 1 secondgame that that these people were playing and not unsuccessfully. Yeah, they may were still doing quite a quite a decent um
23:0923 minutes, 9 secondsuh uh trajectory that those people pursued. We also saw that there were instances where people well either chose
23:1623 minutes, 16 secondsto well dedicate their most efforts on an existing family firm and explore
23:2423 minutes, 24 secondsother adjacent areas through strategic startup investments and also as a mean
23:3123 minutes, 31 secondsto well to keep their well younger generations uh interested in their in
23:3823 minutes, 38 secondstheir um business. So, it's like a talent, it's a talent retention strategy. If I want to keep this family
23:4623 minutes, 46 secondsmember who's talented involved and engaged, we're going to we're going to splinter off an opportunity here and let them really run with it. Uh that's like talent retention.
23:5623 minutes, 56 secondsIt is. It is. and development also it's that they provide well your well own
24:0224 minutes, 2 secondschildren uh children-in-law partners with the uh opportunity actually to develop to develop some world business
24:1024 minutes, 10 secondsaccumment and understanding of prayers and I would not necessarily say that you do need um startup knowledge well to be
24:1824 minutes, 18 secondsable to well successfully uh become the inheritor of a family firm but at least
24:2524 minutes, 25 secondsit provides you I I would say with a very good area to develop yourself and to distinguish yourself amongst other
24:3324 minutes, 33 secondspeers. And yeah, I saw that this is one of the ways that actually uh parallel
24:3924 minutes, 39 secondsentrepreneurs do well then intentionally explore into startup ventures. Um
24:4624 minutes, 46 secondssoftware technology firms for instance where their main family business was something in name it manufacturing or
24:5324 minutes, 53 secondswell more of an old school industry area. So I think this is something where where the intention of entrepreneurs comes into play. What is it actually
25:0125 minutes, 1 secondthat you want to pursue with your why uh essentially do you do more than one one thing at the same time?
Chapter 10: Happy Overall
25:0925 minutes, 9 secondsMy friend Brandon shared a piece of advice recently. Dress so that if someone dressed up as you for a costume party, everyone would know it was you.
25:1925 minutes, 19 secondsNow that's not entirely about clothing.
25:2225 minutes, 22 secondsThat's about identity. about showing up fully. My wife Jenny and I are leaning in on this concept both in our personal
25:3025 minutes, 30 secondslives and now in a little startup we call happy overall. We're making overalls. Each one is made to order as a
25:3925 minutes, 39 secondswearable canvas for art. Overalls that are comfortable, durable, and expressive. We're sourcing soft 100%
25:4825 minutes, 48 secondscotton. We're partnering with designers and with local seamstresses who love the artistry of a well-crafted piece of
25:5525 minutes, 55 secondsclothing. So check out happyoverall.com to see picks and see if anything resonates with you fully you and it'll
26:0426 minutes, 4 secondshappen every time you reach for them. If you want to be part of the first run, join our waitlist at happyoverall.com.
Chapter 11: Is entrepreneurship a game?
26:1626 minutes, 16 secondsI heard you use the word game just a second ago and I wanted to drill in on that. I have some parallel entrepreneur
26:2326 minutes, 23 secondsinterviews and experiences with uh I'd call them peers who look at their
26:3026 minutes, 30 secondsbusiness and I think it's a coping skill. I but but they look at the business and what they do as a game and
26:3926 minutes, 39 secondsthere are rules and they want to level up. So they spend time imagining what do I need to learn? Which company am I
26:4826 minutes, 48 secondsgoing to experiment with on this particular area? You know, in first-person shooter games like my sons
26:5526 minutes, 55 secondsplay, there's probably a moment where they get to win this special double-sided sword with superpowers. They've got to
27:0427 minutes, 4 secondsgo win that sword and then they can use it in all of their various different levels. So when they when I hear other
27:1127 minutes, 11 secondsentrepreneurs speak about their business experience as if it's a game, I think it also helps them uh not only prepare but
27:2027 minutes, 20 secondsseek a goal and have that goal serve other goals. And as they level up, they're moving from a mature business to
27:2927 minutes, 29 secondsa less mature business to capture some experience or experiment and then see how they can apply that to the next
27:3727 minutes, 37 secondsopportunity within their portfolio of companies. How does that resonate with you as an observation?
27:4327 minutes, 43 secondsOne thing where I definitely agree and one element where I would say um there might be a minor adjustment actually to
27:5127 minutes, 51 secondsthe idea of a game. Well, the first one is we definitely agree is that people do see the joy, the pleasure of doing
28:0028 minutessomething. And I think your son um yeah, if you if you say, "Well, now it's time to turn off your PlayStation or whatever
28:0828 minutes, 8 secondsdevice he's playing on," he will definitely say, "Well, just five more minutes that right, please. I'm just It's going so nice." And [Clears throat] you're not quite there. Wait a minute.
28:1628 minutes, 16 secondsAnd it is I think this joy this very personal emotion that you see that drives I would say entrepreneurs more
28:2528 minutes, 25 secondsthan most people. I mean we do of course see that with with managers with um probably
28:3228 minutes, 32 secondsalso in academia people they are intrinsically motivated to do something that they do derive
28:3928 minutes, 39 secondsdeep pleasure from what they do. So I think this is definitely the game the fun side of um of seeing this metaphor
28:4628 minutes, 46 secondsof a game. On the other hand, I would say it's sometimes difficult to understand the idea of a game. [Gasps]
28:5328 minutes, 53 secondsUh because in real life maybe the rules, the incentives, your competitors in a game change
29:0229 minutes, 2 secondswithout you knowing what's actually going on. And then once I play um uh chess for instance, a pawn always moves
29:1129 minutes, 11 secondsthe same way. And I do definitely know where the board ends when I play chess.
29:1829 minutes, 18 secondsIn real life, I do not always know where the area where the industry is changing or heading to.
29:2529 minutes, 25 secondsIsn't that exciting though, right? Isn't that exciting? That's what makes life for yourself that the uh what you once
29:3229 minutes, 32 secondstook for granted in terms of well these are the rules of the game maybe they're not not well maybe they were there yesterday and maybe today but who knows how the rules of the game are tomorrow.
Chapter 12: When the rules suddenly change
29:4429 minutes, 44 secondsI had one example for instance um that's it's maybe interesting to illustrate that because as I said well I was able
29:5029 minutes, 50 secondsto follow those entrepreneurs over a number of years and um it was well a couple of years ago that
30:0030 minutesum COVID-19 of course emerged and this brought a fundamental shift to uh to the
30:0730 minutes, 7 secondsway people worked and with a particular the first lockdown here in the Netherlands in Europe brought brought well unprecedented uncertainty to
30:1730 minutes, 17 secondspeople. Um, no one knew into which direction certain areas were heading and if there well like for instance how how
30:2630 minutes, 26 secondsa restaurant chain or hotel chain would would come out of those of this this period and strangely enough you saw um a
30:3630 minutes, 36 secondsfew entrepreneurs parallel entrepreneurs who shifted their mindset completely in the beginning. Well before corona they
30:4530 minutes, 45 secondswere consolidating uh saying well I have to to reduce uh my explorational activities. I want to consolidate on
30:5230 minutes, 52 secondswhat I have want to de develop my companies further and some of them well said this is a crisis too good to waste.
31:0131 minutes, 1 secondI have to explore into new directions. I have to acquire competitors because now they are this is the way for me the
31:0831 minutes, 8 secondsopportunity the moment that comes once in a lifetime. And it was I thought, "Oh gosh, this is surprising because they
31:1631 minutes, 16 secondsreally were driving uh and and and flourishing in this period where others really were concerned and said, well, I
31:2531 minutes, 25 secondsI don't move. I don't dare to do anything. I just keep my keep sitting on my hands. Don't do anything." And I
31:3131 minutes, 31 secondsthink this is a very personal, very private, very let's say intrinsic moment that
31:4031 minutes, 40 secondsentrepreneurs have. How do you what do you do once you realize for yourself that these rules of the game are
31:4731 minutes, 47 secondschanging and surprises coming on and and uncertainty is actually well the the new rule of the game, right? How I was I was
31:5631 minutes, 56 secondscurious actually what did what was your experience once COVID-19 emerged in the US? How did you cope with that? I had
Chapter 13: Mark's businesses during COVID-19
32:0532 minutes, 5 secondsthe good fortune of having one company um that exploded. Swiftwick compression sock
32:1332 minutes, 13 secondsmanufacturing company uh was being run by some competent people and I had become from a founder CEO to an
32:2232 minutes, 22 secondsinvestor. Um and and they they just exploded 30% a year. Everybody was at home buying sports athletic socks and
32:3132 minutes, 31 secondsgetting out and running and taking better care of themselves. Uh, I had another company that I was paying more attention to, a startup that um, gee,
32:4032 minutes, 40 secondsgoing into the the March recognition in America when when the shutdown happened, I was operating a company that was a
32:4832 minutes, 48 secondstechnology company, doing shared mobility incentives, paying people cash for sharing rides, and taking public
32:5532 minutes, 55 secondstransit in a mission to try to reduce congestion and environmental damage. uh that auto emissions and driving alone
33:0333 minutes, 3 secondsrepresent. And gosh, I I think we made more sales in the first quarter of 2020 than we had the previous entire year. It
33:1133 minutes, 11 secondsfelt like we were just absolutely crushing it. And then the shutdown came
33:1933 minutes, 19 secondsand we were literally the entire market evaporated. Nobody wanted to be in a car with anybody else. I
33:2733 minutes, 27 secondswas very conflicted. I had probably 30 globally recognized world-class advisers
Chapter 14: Pause, pivot or pursue?
33:3633 minutes, 36 secondsum investors from a lot of different disciplines. Uh I asked them in the case of Hytch I said uh should we pause, pivot or pursue? That was the question.
33:4733 minutes, 47 secondsUm I'm seeking advice. And I think my reaction might be that I became much more open to advice. I became much more
33:5533 minutes, 55 secondscoachable. And also this was a confusing moment because uh I got about one-third of my advisers said pause it's over
34:0334 minutes, 3 secondswith this is the end of this business you know hang it up and one-third of them said pivot move to a diff use this
34:1134 minutes, 11 secondstechnology you've developed and apply it to a different space and one-third of them said pursue it your your vision your mission and your objectives are
34:2034 minutes, 20 secondsclear and we we invested in you for that reason pursue it so um I did a little mixture of all three, you know, I I I I
34:2834 minutes, 28 secondspulled in the horns. I re-evaluated the technology. Instead of changing its application, I doubled down on the things that we thought were important um
34:3734 minutes, 37 secondsbut might have had more short-term value and and yet we're still on the product plan. And I also just pursued the vision
34:4734 minutes, 47 secondsuh relentlessly. I probably should have quit. I probably should have gone back and said, "Yeah, pause was the win. Kill it." And that's one of the things that I
34:5534 minutes, 55 secondsfeel like I've learned in the pandemic was I think that not knowing when to quit is a weakness as much as it might
35:0335 minutes, 3 secondsbe I never quit is a strength and uh so that's what I learned about myself.
35:0935 minutes, 9 secondsThose were some of my experiences in the pandemic but it it forced me to evaluate
35:1635 minutes, 16 secondsuh the real estate much more carefully than I had before. Would you describe just a perfect example of how
Chapter 15: How entrepreneurs make decisions under pressure
35:2535 minutes, 25 secondspeople who do have different requirements surrounding them and different necessities to to cater to are
35:3435 minutes, 34 secondsthen required to make it to make in an instant moment a decision and not only a decision for themselves but a decision
35:4235 minutes, 42 secondsto [Gasps] well to to that that works for their employees for their investor. ers for
35:5035 minutes, 50 secondsall the numerous stakeholders that you probably feel deeply responsible for.
35:5535 minutes, 55 secondsHuh. But I still think in those those moments how we do have this small part in our brain, the amygdala that that
36:0336 minutes, 3 secondsresponds instantaneously to exogenous shocks this fight, flight or freeze response that we we will frequently uh
36:1236 minutes, 12 secondsrefer to. you. I think there is a certain element of truth in uh in this very
36:2036 minutes, 20 secondsbodily um form to to respond to events that are well surprising to you. And I
36:2936 minutes, 29 secondswould say that uh COVID-19 and these in particular the very early phase was
36:3636 minutes, 36 secondssomething where this response intuitively um revealed quite an great part of what
36:4636 minutes, 46 secondswill distinguish a certain person and how he or she organizes and works with with others. And um I see it for myself
36:5536 minutes, 55 secondsand because I can only share this this moment when uh I was sitting here in uh
37:0237 minutes, 2 secondsin Amsterdam in the Netherlands with my uh wife and kids and we were uh watching the broadcast that the Dutch government
37:0937 minutes, 9 secondswas announcing the the lockdown, the shutdown few days later and it was uh still remember it was uh March the 12th
37:1837 minutes, 18 secondsuh Thursday uh afternoon and next day Friday the 13th, I was uh in the morning
37:2637 minutes, 26 secondseagerly um compiling a short questionnaire that I could send out to my uh portfolio entrepreneurs and ask
37:3337 minutes, 33 secondsthem what they would do now because I thought this is such a wonderful moment for me to to well to grasp the moment
37:4337 minutes, 43 secondswhich was still unbelievable because it was horrible, right? What was going on there? But to me my most intuitive response was just this is too too good
37:5237 minutes, 52 secondsto be true. I have to grasp every opportunity that comes up with. And yes, one of the papers um actually that I was
38:0038 minutesable to publish uh based on my uh PhD dissertation covers exactly this short moment in
38:0838 minutes, 8 secondstime. this well what do entrepreneurs do normally but in particular what do they do once COVID-19 comes up and this was
Chapter 16: Studying entrepreneurs through COVID-19
38:1738 minutes, 17 secondsunprecedented of course so you already had your portfolio your parallel entrepreneurs identified you already are tracking them you're looking
38:2538 minutes, 25 secondsat their finances you're looking at their decision making their resource allocation policies I I'm I'm assuming
38:3338 minutes, 33 secondsboard minutes I mean you're evaluating how a company is run from cradle to grave and There's multiple companies. So
38:4038 minutes, 40 secondsthat's one one candidate you're evaluating and and measuring. I mean this is a very intimate relationship and
38:4838 minutes, 48 secondsthis is a academic research project and you've been going in that conversation in that relationship for how long and
38:5538 minutes, 55 secondsthen COVID-19 strikes and then how long did you track them afterward? What is the time horizon in in total? I was able to to well to
39:0439 minutes, 4 secondsfollow uh this group for about um well it changed a little bit because of course some people started right from the beginning some others joined later.
39:1439 minutes, 14 secondsUh in total it was a almost 3 years so two and a half years and I covered um
39:2139 minutes, 21 secondsthe immediate lockdown and about half a year into COVID-19. So this is when I
39:2939 minutes, 29 secondsthen said well this is more than let's say sufficient empirical
39:3539 minutes, 35 secondsdata that I can um can work with and the unique data was actually um not only the
39:4439 minutes, 44 secondsthe multiple interviews that I conducted in which I asked both about their retrospective experience the what they currently do and their prospective
39:5339 minutes, 53 secondsexperiences around multiple times which allowed me well to yeah critically ask
40:0040 minutesthem to reflect on misalignment on why was it that you're well what you say now
40:0840 minutes, 8 secondsactually differs from what you anticipated just half a year ago what what what was it what why why did there
40:1440 minutes, 14 secondssomething change in your mind um but in particular this moment when COVID-19 emerged and this outbreak gave it a
40:2440 minutes, 24 secondscompletely new direction and it was such an um acceleration of of the need the
40:3240 minutes, 32 secondsnecessity um to formal decision making that I thought well this is in itself actually
40:3940 minutes, 39 secondstoo good to uh to not be a very important element of my of my research because of course I could not anticipate
40:4840 minutes, 48 secondssomething like that I was just interested in how do people evolve over time in their decision-making how do they coord coordinate, orchestrate
40:5740 minutes, 57 secondsresources and as I said well I'm an accountant so I'm always interested in the formal uh the managerial control systems the way they uh assess
41:0641 minutes, 6 secondsinvestments everything that is well accounting coordinating control related and then with COVID-19 it got into a
41:1441 minutes, 14 secondscompletely new uh dimension decision-m on the uncertainty if there's one moment in time I would say about the last
41:2241 minutes, 22 secondsdecades where this became really um a very short element. I think it was the
41:2941 minutes, 29 secondscorona outbreak that that that well forced people to make quick and substantial decisions.
Chapter 17: Preparing for black swan events
41:3741 minutes, 37 secondsSo on some of our more recent episodes, we began a focus on talking about what we call here in America and maybe there as well in Europe, black swan events.
41:4841 minutes, 48 secondsAnd um and then the increasingly normal, it used to be they were every 10 years or so. you know, there was something significant
41:5641 minutes, 56 secondsum that you couldn't anticipate and it changed everything. And now I think that the consensus in my conversations is we
42:0442 minutes, 4 secondswe have black swan events quite frequently now. Um they they range in scope and scale perhaps, but they they
42:1142 minutes, 11 secondscertainly include the invasion of Ukraine, they include the starting of the Iraq war, they they include the
42:2042 minutes, 20 secondsstarting of the Iranian war. more recently uh the conflict there uh they include CO 19 obviously they included
42:2742 minutes, 27 secondsyou know 9/11 I mean if you start looking at the frequency and the impact and the scope of these moments of
42:3442 minutes, 34 secondsextreme uncertainty the tariff policy that is affecting global trade did you see a willingness from one cohort or
42:4442 minutes, 44 secondsanybody within the group that you could say this is the more flexible more uh
42:5242 minutes, 52 secondsrapid decision-making pattern or did you see them all react in kind of a con consistent way to these extreme shocks
43:0143 minutes, 1 secondcuz it's not just been CO 19 there's been other major opportunities that gave them a strategic optionality. uh what
43:0843 minutes, 8 secondswhat did you what do you see with regard to just your these relationships that you've you've built over a long period
Chapter 18: What makes some entrepreneurs more resilient?
43:1543 minutes, 15 secondsof time? How they react in a in a way that can give our listeners maybe some guidance or something to look for within themselves? I would say that this well
43:2443 minutes, 24 secondsidea of resilience and uh ability to cope with
43:3243 minutes, 32 secondssubstantial changes in again these rules of the game uh that we earlier um
43:4043 minutes, 40 secondsillustrated. I think it is this form for yourself that comes into into play once you see well
43:4843 minutes, 48 secondsthis is a very personal uh way to to cope with uncertainty and yes they are
43:5643 minutes, 56 secondsvery frequent events that we uh that we could potentially identify as black swans um that we did not well foresee at
44:0644 minutes, 6 secondsleast well maybe in hindsight we might say well there were some indicators heading into certain say, well, experts in certain areas of
44:1444 minutes, 14 secondscourse would argue certain uh geopolitical struggles.
44:2144 minutes, 21 secondsWe're not unlikely to to burst out into into open conflicts or wars.
44:2644 minutes, 26 secondsBut still for the majority of people this is not their daily work and we do tend to focus on more of the same of
44:3444 minutes, 34 secondscourse on in the areas where we think well we do we are able to uh full our days completely uh with with what we
44:4244 minutes, 42 secondshave on hand and there are situations where this gets turned upside down and where we have to acknowledge well that
44:5144 minutes, 51 secondsuh energy prices are soaring or um indeed for instance Um petrol is becoming something that might well form
45:0145 minutes, 1 seconda certain limitation to our life and maybe we are not able to travel to all destinations
45:0845 minutes, 8 secondsuh for cheap for cheap because um yes Iran uh is is currently um a huge
45:1845 minutes, 18 secondsconflict zone but I think this very personal characteristics are something
45:2645 minutes, 26 secondsthat we're not one dominant um variable is at at place because well age is
45:3445 minutes, 34 secondssomething uh crucial I would say that once you are well more leaning toward
45:4145 minutes, 41 secondstowards your 50s 60s7s and you want actually to hand over or exit your
45:4845 minutes, 48 secondsventures well maybe you are more uh risk averse than you were in your 20s30s 40s
45:5545 minutes, 55 secondsis when you thought for yourself, well, there is something, but I can still [Gasps] well run out this struggle uh without any any well harsh consequences
46:0546 minutes, 5 secondsfor myself. [Sighs and gasps] Nevertheless, I would say that age or experience and even a resource base
46:1246 minutes, 12 secondsitself is not sufficient to explain why certain people are more resilient than others. And I would say that I was
46:2146 minutes, 21 secondspretty much surprised by the fact that some people were to me at least and most likely even to themsel rather rather
46:3046 minutes, 30 secondslaidback and cool for instance with coping uh with the COVID-19 outbreak.
46:3546 minutes, 35 secondsAnd I would even say that probably some people um who are now well faced with the negative consequences
46:4446 minutes, 44 secondsof uh the Iran war um Ukraine uh all the defense issues that we currently face here in Europe and the ongoing
46:5246 minutes, 52 secondsdiscussions about that one that brings a lot of uncertainty to people but somehow and this is probably a very personal uh
47:0247 minutes, 2 secondscharacteristic that people have this tendency to be resilient
47:0947 minutes, 9 secondsand be willing to accept that certain things are beyond your own control is something deeply personally infringed
47:1847 minutes, 18 secondsand I think it's it's it's fascinating to see um that people do not only well follow predefined script of how they
47:2747 minutes, 27 secondscope with something or they improve or alter uh the way they they organize their
47:3447 minutes, 34 secondsbut that they are also able well to rely on some hidden heuristics or rules of
47:4147 minutes, 41 secondsthumb and say well h this is maybe still even something that I can can accept and uh where I can live with so I would say
47:4947 minutes, 49 secondsresilience itself I'm not sure if people are able to to develop this skill um I was pretty much surprised by the fact
47:5847 minutes, 58 secondshow big the variation within the group of power entrepreneurs was and how much yeah let's say flexibility people
48:0748 minutes, 7 secondsactually have probably more than um they understand themselves and probably more also more than I was able to identify. I
Chapter 19: Mark's approach: observe, accept, act
48:1648 minutes, 16 secondsfind a coping skill for me is a discipline that my wife actually introduced uh and I've been able to to
48:2448 minutes, 24 secondstry to incorporate into my process and that is to approach everything with the attitude that I'm an observer and then
48:3248 minutes, 32 secondsafter that obser a set of observations that I I might make in a circumstance I will then accept that as reality what I
48:4148 minutes, 41 secondscan see what I can experience what I observe I accept And then I choose if I'm going to act or not. And sometimes
48:4948 minutes, 49 secondschoosing to not act is is an action. And acting is is uh something that I may or
48:5648 minutes, 56 secondsmay not be successful with depending on what I think is the situation. And so uh
49:0249 minutes, 2 secondsafter I act, I calm back down or or I just sat back and I observe again what are the consequences? What are the
49:1149 minutes, 11 secondsopportunities? what are the strategic optionalities that have just emerged from this decision that was made in the
49:1949 minutes, 19 secondsact phase and then I'm going to accept that because that's the new reality and then it's just a it's a one two three
49:2649 minutes, 26 secondsfour observe accept act accept and then I go back to observing and I feel that
49:3549 minutes, 35 secondsthat has been um really helpful in my coping or my my definition of resilience
49:4149 minutes, 41 secondsas I as I view it in myself. This very much shows how
49:4849 minutes, 48 secondsum an and let's say an active mindset well enables you with coping as you
49:5449 minutes, 54 secondsexplained but also well grasping the benefits from from changing circumstances right I mean you can of
50:0150 minutes, 1 secondcourse the way that you decide to maybe not actively respond something can also
50:0850 minutes, 8 secondsbe an active act of decision-making but I mean in most instances I would say that making an active response to
50:1750 minutes, 17 secondssomething might probably lead to more beneficial answers um in in changing
50:2450 minutes, 24 secondsenvironments than just wait and see. I mean if we we see it and see it in financial terms as an investor once
50:3250 minutes, 32 secondsstock markets crash um a wait and see strategy might actually be more um economically viable than divesting uh everything.
50:4350 minutes, 43 secondsBut on the other hand, I would still think that in terms of how comfortable do you feel in terms of your own control
50:5050 minutes, 50 secondsand how you are able to cope and respond with changing um conditions and your changing um environment allows you to
51:0051 minuteshave well the mental agility to feel comfortable and at ease with what's going on. And I think this is quite quite uh well great to see and how you illustrate this from my side.
Chapter 20: Why on earth do you do more than one thing?
51:1351 minutes, 13 secondsWhen I was thinking about what what what surprises I found, my
51:1951 minutes, 19 secondsfirst question with all parallel or portfolio entrepreneurs was always this half joke of why on
51:2951 minutes, 29 secondsearth do you do more than one thing at the same time? Isn't this actually asking for a headache? And people always
51:3651 minutes, 36 secondsresponded with this well laughter or only halfway joke of well I'm a little bit crazy.
51:4551 minutes, 45 secondsYeah, I really appreciate that. Um I've grown up as a parallel entrepreneur. My entire life I've had more than one
51:5451 minutes, 54 secondscompany at the same time. Most of the parallel entrepreneurs I talk to have that same reaction. It's almost like the
52:0152 minutes, 1 secondwhole world thinks we're weird or strange or and we even start joking, yeah, we've got ADD or you know, it's
52:0852 minutes, 8 secondssort of this uh comic response. And in fact, you started out our conversation with a recognition that the investment
52:1752 minutes, 17 secondsbanking community will take a really great idea and not invest in it. um because this person has more than one
52:2652 minutes, 26 secondscompany and there that it's this judgment about split attentions and yet
52:3252 minutes, 32 secondsI think as humans we are put together to be creative and weave a complex fabric as opposed to a a specific rope, right?
52:4452 minutes, 44 secondsAnd it it just it's just feels natural to me. And while I know it's not natural for everybody and how they might feel, I
52:5152 minutes, 51 secondsthink that many entrepreneurs are in fact parallel entrepreneurs and just don't recognize it or don't talk about
52:5952 minutes, 59 secondsit or or don't explore it and and we come together occasionally as a group and and are actually reinforcing and
53:0853 minutes, 8 secondsunderstanding and supporting this identity which is sort of the angle that I came at this topic with while you came
53:1553 minutes, 15 secondsat it from this completely completely academic perspective. And so for the audience, just me telling my story, I
53:2253 minutes, 22 secondsscoured the world trying to find you, Tobias, to try to find like who has put some thought into and measured what it
53:3253 minutes, 32 secondsmeans to be and feels to be and and might be the superpowers of being a parallel entrepreneur. I'm just thrilled that it's also something that you
53:4053 minutes, 40 secondsrecognize inside yourself as an intrinsic innate um piece of your lived experience. It's just it might not be a
53:4953 minutes, 49 secondsdifferent business at all times, but it might certainly be many different things that you find interest in. I want to drill into something that I heard you
Chapter 21: The economic impact of parallel entrepreneurs
53:5653 minutes, 56 secondssay earlier, which was the economic impact of a parallel entrepreneur is measurable. And I wanted to get down to
54:0454 minutes, 4 secondsthe details. What did you discover there? I started with the idea to to focus on what's the economic return. Why do you do more than uh normal
54:1454 minutes, 14 secondsentrepreneurs do? There must be a certain financial wild benefit out of it. Otherwise, it wouldn't make any sense. However, both in terms of in
54:2354 minutes, 23 secondsparticular regarding startups, their life cycle is very difficult to assess in financial terms over the dur duration
54:3054 minutes, 30 secondsof a few years even because most of them are not yet worthwhile. survive not the first years but they have other
54:3854 minutes, 38 secondsbenefits. For instance, they keep their children engaged in their family business once they are able to develop
54:4654 minutes, 46 secondscertain skills that are interesting to uh to deploy in in the startup environment.
54:5454 minutes, 54 secondsUm so to me it became more in terms of or less in terms of an financial um
55:0155 minutes, 1 secondprerogative but more in terms of what do people actually learn? What do they actually do? How do they develop it in
55:0955 minutes, 9 secondsterms of managerial practices, leadership practices? Because I thought that this is more well intriguing and
55:1855 minutes, 18 secondsprobably more effective to conduct research on that one instead of a sole focus on the
55:2655 minutes, 26 secondsfinancial returns. Um having said that does not mean that um I was not well
55:3555 minutes, 35 secondsat at least a number of occasions quite impressed by the financial returns they were make they were able to make. Some
55:4255 minutes, 42 secondsof these uh entrepreneurs developed companies um in really in about
55:5055 minutes, 50 secondstwo years uh exited them because they thought well that now my job is done. I will hand it over to uh to uh
55:5855 minutes, 58 secondsprofessional managers and they obtained a very decent return. This was not part of or this was not the primary part of
56:0656 minutes, 6 secondsmy research because the limited number of uh those instances [Gasps] but I was still well fascinated and
56:1456 minutes, 14 secondsintrigued by at least some of the returns they made. There were some uh comparative analysis done regarding
56:2356 minutes, 23 secondstheir contribution particularly in frontier markets uh Sub-Saharan Africa where uh parallel entrepreneurship is
56:3256 minutes, 32 secondsbasically a mean to mitigate risks because agriculture uh itself is not uh stable enough as an income stream for your extended family.
56:4356 minutes, 43 secondsSo you have to well diversify into areas where um probabilities are a little bit
56:5256 minutes, 52 secondsmore uh likely to well provide income for the foreseeable future as well as
56:5856 minutes, 58 secondsdoing other things. And this was also known that we well we do see parallel entrepreneurship around the globe in different areas. The
57:0757 minutes, 7 secondssame accounts for these huge conglomerates, big uh Japanese, Korean firms where
57:1657 minutes, 16 secondseverything is uh run under the same under the same umbrella structure, highly diversified
57:2457 minutes, 24 secondsum little bit like the idea of a General Electric in the US. um high conglomerate firms that were well discounted on stock
57:3357 minutes, 33 secondsmarkets for instance because they were too big too huge and say well the breakup value of individual parts of the firm are actually bigger
57:4257 minutes, 42 secondsthan than the whole. [Gasps] I would say that um what is fascinating
Chapter 22: How big is parallel entrepreneurship?
57:4857 minutes, 48 secondsto see about the economic contribution of parallel entrepreneurship is that we
57:5557 minutes, 55 secondsdo not yet fully know how big this phenomenon actually is. um not in uh in
58:0358 minutes, 3 secondsEurope. Um there is this initiative currently going on for um for what we
58:0958 minutes, 9 secondscall the uh uh ultimate beneficial owner register. So who is in the end owning a
58:1658 minutes, 16 secondscompany uh once you're registered at a company house or your local um registering office? So once you
58:2458 minutes, 24 secondsincorporate an uh a company this can also be partly of course shares can partly be held by another firm by
58:3158 minutes, 31 secondsanother company um a trust other forms and once you identify the final person
58:4058 minutes, 40 secondshuman person owning a string of um companies then it becomes more interesting to see actually how big this
58:4858 minutes, 48 secondsphenomenon is and for the at least well for Europe this is not yet complete completely unraveled because well this
58:5558 minutes, 55 secondsuh ultimate beneficial owner uh register is not yet fully incorporated in uh domestic legislation which means that we
59:0459 minutes, 4 secondsknow that some areas do have probably quite um extensive contribution
59:1059 minutes, 10 secondsin terms of uh also exporting activities um the number of patents that are
59:1859 minutes, 18 secondsissued by groups that belong to portfolio or parallel entrepreneurs is
59:2459 minutes, 24 secondscomparatively big surprisingly. Um we do see that there are some unique characteristics about them but we don't
59:3359 minutes, 33 secondsknow how big it actually is because we do not have yet the numbers the statistics available to actually identify uh each and everyone who is
59:4159 minutes, 41 secondsunder and I think this resonates with what you um said before because some people uh entrepreneurs
59:4859 minutes, 48 secondsdo in fact explore either adjacent or completely opposing areas um without
59:5759 minutes, 57 secondscalling themselves parallel entrepreneurs and they translate or use their skills and abilities in other
1:00:041 hour, 4 secondsareas or other ventures or strategic investments. [Sighs and gasps] But this is not always easily able to um
1:00:141 hour, 14 secondsextradite from from public statistical data or company data. And I think this
1:00:211 hour, 21 secondsis quite uh quite fascinating to see because not all parallel entrepreneurial activities I think do resonate in
1:00:291 hour, 29 secondsmeasurable data and we see at what at a few in a few markets um that their role is quite extensive but how big it
1:00:381 hour, 38 secondsactually is. Um this is one of those famous areas for further research as academic always loves to say and well please do contribute more to this
1:00:461 hour, 46 secondsdirection. Um but in the end actually this is where we currently are and we do not yet know how big this phenomenon actually is.
Chapter 23: The next generation of parallel entrepreneurs
1:00:551 hour, 55 secondsI think right now the long the younger you are [Music] the more likely you are to be a parallel entrepreneur today and
1:01:031 hour, 1 minute, 3 secondsor you will be a parallel entrepreneur sooner and faster than you think. Hey, thanks for listening to the Parallel
1:01:101 hour, 1 minute, 10 secondsEntrepreneur [Music] and thank you to our sponsors, partners, and the amazing team behind the scenes who help make
1:01:171 hour, 1 minute, 17 secondsthese conversations possible. If today's episode sparked something for you, be sure to follow, subscribe, and please
1:01:241 hour, 1 minute, 24 secondsshare it. Learn about our growing community at parallelentrepreneur.com, including details on our mastermind and
1:01:331 hour, 1 minute, 33 secondscompanion programs designed to help you align, grow, and thrive across multiple ventures. And of course, gratitude to
1:01:411 hour, 1 minute, 41 secondsevery visionary guest who trusts us to share their story. Until next [Music] time, keep building in parallel.