Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
In this episode, Jess and Scott tackle the polarizing topic of Santa Claus and holiday traditions as they answer the question: "Should we tell kids Santa is real?" They explore different approaches to discussing Santa with children - from treating him as a real person to presenting him as an imaginative character - all while emphasizing the importance of maintaining trust and connection with our kids.
Jess and Scott share valuable insights on fostering genuine gratitude during gift-giving, managing children's expectations and behaviours during holiday celebrations, and navigating family dynamics when different belief systems clash.
They also discuss why using Santa as a behaviour management tool can backfire
and provide practical tips for making the holiday season magical regardless of your approach.
This must-listen episode provides thoughtful guidance for parents seeking to create meaningful holiday traditions while staying true to their values.
Jess mentions an episode where she introduces her hand puppet, "Grumpy Sean." You can listen to the full episode about playfulness and teasing here [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/is-it-ok-to-tease-your-kids/id1740816838?i=1000676474517].
Get 10% OFF parenting courses and kids' printable activities at Nurtured First [https://nurturedfirst.com/courses/] using the code ROBOTUNICORN.
Learn more about the Solving Bedtime Battles course here [https://nurturedfirst.com/courses/solving-bedtime-battles/].
We'd love to hear from you! Have questions you want us to answer on Robot Unicorn? Send us an email: podcast@robotunicorn.net.
Credits:
Editing by The Pod Cabin [https://thepodcabin.com/]
Artwork by Wallflower Studio [https://www.wallflowerstudio.co/]
Production by Nurtured First [https://nurturedfirst.com/]
Join me, Jess VanderWier, a registered psychotherapist, mom of three, and founder of Nurtured First, along with my husband Scott, as we dive deep into the stories of our friends, favourite celebrities, and influential figures.
In each episode, we skip the small talk and dive into vulnerable and honest conversations about topics like cycle breaking, trauma, race, mental health, parenting, sex, religion, postpartum, healing, and loss.
We are glad you are here.
PS: The name Robot Unicorn comes from our daughter. When we asked her what we should name the podcast, she confidently came up with this name because she loves robots, and she loves unicorns, so why not? There was something about the playfulness of the name, the confidence in her voice, and the fact that it represents that you can love two things at once that just felt right.
Hey, if you're listening today, I just want to give you a content warning.
We're discussing Santa and depending on what you believe and what you've taught your children to believe, you may not want to listen to this around young ears.
Just letting you know, hope you enjoyed the episode.
Welcome to Robot Unicorn.
We are so glad that you are here.
Well, apparently people are not sick of us discussing Santa and Elf on the Shelf and
I don't know, all the holiday things.
Yeah.
Even though we've talked about it every single year since Okay not to interrupt you.
Oh you're interrupt okay, go ahead.
I was just in Vancouver last week and I did a meetup with a bunch of followers from Nurtured First and also Robot Unicorn.
And while we were there, one of the folks at the meetup asked me about Santa
And said, Jess, are you gonna talk about Sansa this year?
And I said, Oh, you're kidding.
I said, I've talked about Sansa on Nurtured First, seven years of talking about Sansa every holiday season.
And we love it
Well, and I said, I just assumed everyone was gonna be sick of hearing me talk about Santa this year.
And she said no.
And then someone else
Said, but our kids get older every year.
And so every year the way we talk about Santa or the way we're thinking about it changes a little bit.
So it's just nice to have a reminder.
So I said, okay, fine, I'll talk about Santa this year
And not, okay, fine as in I hate talking about Santa.
I actually don't mind it, but I'll tell you my issue talking about Santa before we get into it.
Please tell me.
It's not that I don't like talking about Santa and giving f
people options of how they want to talk with Santa with their own kids.
It's that no matter what I say, people are upset with me.
Yes.
In terms of the Santa Cruz.
Yeah, it's very polarizing.
It's very polarizing and I'm hoping today
We can bring a non-polarizing display.
Yeah, see maybe that's your issue with it, and for me, I'm just bored.
You've talked about it so many times.
Yeah, I've It seems like we're playing this on repeat a little bit, but Yeah
And there's new people every year.
There's people who haven't heard us talk about Santa.
And Santa can be a really divisive topic in families.
Okay.
So that's not what this whole episode is on though.
That's a part of it.
Scott has the questions
I'm adding another question as you're talking.
Am I allowed to add one more question to the list of questions that I have on here?
Our hope with this episode today is we're gonna talk about Santa, but we're also gonna talk about all of your holiday related questions.
We have been getting a lot of different topics coming in.
And so it's kind of a holiday QA.
And I'm excited.
I'm excited to do this in podcast form because I think
It'll allow me to clarify myself a little bit better and get into all the nuances that we like to.
Yeah, I agree.
And just before we start, we do have a blog like
At least one.
Yeah, we have a great blog post on talking to kids about Santa.
And I think you'll find it helpful if you want more, even above and beyond this podcast.
Alright, so I have a whole list of questions.
I had Paige help me
put together, essentially summarize what we've been asked over the years.
I mean I'm sure there's lots more, but just a summary of the questions.
So let's just start with Santa.
Because we were just talking about that anyway.
Keep talking on that.
There's a whole host of questions that people have asked us on that topic in particular.
Okay.
One is how should parents talk about Santa to their kids?
Is it allowed?
Is it not allowed?
And then secondary to that
Is it okay to use Santa or the elf on the shelf as a tool for creating good behavior in your kids?
Right.
So that's a secondary question.
The first is are you even allowed to talk about Santa and Elf on the Shelf?
Right.
So I don't think it's my job to tell people what they're allowed and not allowed to talk to their kids about.
So first off, whenever I get that question, I say, well, you tell me.
And the first thing I do with parents is talk to me about Santa.
Talk to me about your experience when you were a child.
hearing about Santa, right?
And so if I ask you that question, I know your answer is you didn't have Santa growing up, right?
Santa was more of a character and not something that you believed
was real.
Yeah, I think I wanted to, but Yeah, you wanted to believe Santa was real.
Maybe you m imagined it, but in your home, Santa was a character.
Right?
And same with me.
Whereas for a lot of people, some of our good friends, when they grew up, Santa was real, right?
Their parents said Santa was real.
Their parents created this magic around Santa, you know, dad's thumping on the roof, you're thinking the reindeers are coming
Everyone has a different experience and what your experience was or wasn't is going to shape the way you want to talk to your kids about Santa.
Right?
If you grew up and Santa was this magical character and it
felt like something you loved as a child and you had no trauma when you found out that Santa was in fact not real.
Spoiler, you know.
But then you might want to pass that message on to your kids, right?
And if you grew up and Santa was a character, or maybe when your parents told you that Santa was in fact not real
that felt traumatic to you and it felt like your parents had lied to you and you felt silly and ashamed.
Maybe you won't want to do it, right?
But you have to look at your own experiences and the message that you want to give your kids
So that's first and foremost, I think that's with anything regarding parenting.
We want to reflect on our own experiences, see what we want to take away, see what we want to do different, and then decide what we're gonna tell.
our kids.
And then I pare it down to two different stories, right?
So there's one story where Santa is a character.
And this is the story that Scott and I do with our kids.
Right.
So we tell them the story of St.
Nicholas, and we help them understand who Santa originally was and and why Santa's even around to begin with.
And then we talk about Santa as a character, right?
And
just like Mickey Mouse or Elsa or any other character, we can choose to think that character's real if that's something that the child wants to do
So we talked about this with our four-year-old the other day and she's like, I wanna think Santa's real.
They're like, okay.
So we can imagine that Santa is real
At what point do I bring up the fact that Coca-Cola is the company that created the Santa that everyone visualizes today?
Yeah.
When am I allowed to bring that up?
At the end of my rant.
Okay.
Yeah.
So for our four-year-old, she wants to imagine that Santa's real.
That is fun to her.
She wants to do the milk and cookies.
She wants to imagine that reindeer are coming down.
She wants to send her letter to Santa in the mail
And that's what she wants to do.
So that's fine.
We can play it out.
And I think that can be really fun to play, we know is our kids' language.
Scott and I have talked about that a ton on the pod.
And if Santa can be a way that we play with our kids and make up imaginary worlds with our kids, I think that can be really fun and special and magical.
Our eight-year-old or seven and a half year old
has decided that she doesn't want to think Santa is real and that she knows better and thinks that Santa is pretend.
But at the same time, she's still interested in doing all the play things.
Yeah, she still enjoys doing all that stuff wrong.
She still wants to make the cookies.
She still wants me to send her letter to Santa.
I think a little bit she does think Santa's real, even though she says Santa's not real.
'Cause she was really insistent on me sending a letter to Santa.
Okay.
Right?
And and I think that's okay 'cause what we know about kids is that kids love to play and they feel connected to their parents through play
And a lot of the times what I'm asking parents is, okay, Santa felt magical to you.
Was the magic Santa or was the magic the way that you were allowed to have this open imagination and play and connection with your parents?
And for a lot of kids, Santa and the experience of Santa was a way that they deeply connected with their parents through play.
And I think that that's often missed in the discussion around Santa.
And is it a certain time of year that maybe they get more attention from their parents than others because it's like maybe I don't know, maybe that's something that happens.
Yeah, I think so.
I think it's a certain time of year.
Santa can really be a way of connection because for parents, like perhaps for your parents, Santa was a way that they connected with their parents, right?
So there can be like a generational thing.
Tell me what me?
No, I'm just saying in general
And I'm saying in general, even if someone had parents who maybe weren't the best and the most attentive the rest of the year, they might have wanted to live out their own nostalgia and their own memory through Santa, making them feel more connected and close to their kids.
around the holiday season.
So I think when we're talking about Santa, what we should or should not do, what we really want to think about is the magic of Santa and the magic of this time of year and that feeling
often comes from just connecting with our kids through imagination and play.
And if that's what Santa is for you and your family, I think that can be great.
And I think if you want to do the Santa's real story, like I had when I did that meetup, a bunch of people were saying that they do the sance's real story.
I think that there's a way that that can be done.
That's okay for kids, right?
You follow your child's cues.
You do it like you would any other thing that a kid thinks is real, you know, like our daughters think unicorns are real and we haven't quite burst their bubble.
Well, we've tried, but they're like
You guys are wrong.
You know, unicorns are real.
They've seen one at like a local fair.
Yeah.
They saw a horse and someone put a horn on it and now they truly believe unicorns are not.
And they painted it and everything too, so it looked all
Pink and purple or whatever colors of the rainbow.
So our kids think unicorns are real.
We haven't told them really that unicorns aren't real.
I don't think that's true.
I feel like we actually have, but they refuse to believe us.
Yeah.
But we're not like forcing them like, look, that was a horse and you know, trying to pop that bubble.
That will happen over time.
And so I think if that's your story, just be really mindful of it.
It should be play.
It should be imagination.
It should be fun.
It's never about tricking, you know, trying to trick kids, trying to keep them believing longer just because you want to hold on to that magic, right?
So if you have a seven and a half year old and they're ready to be like, hey, is Santa actually real?
Or then maybe you just say
Oh, you know what?
Yeah, you're ready to hear the truth about Santa.
You know, Santa's in our imagination and the magic is in the time that we have together and telling them that story.
Another question about Santa I get asked a lot is
Well, what if I teach my kids that Santa's a character and they have other friends at school?
You're taking my s my questions away from me.
Oh it's 'cause I know what people ask, because I've done this for so many years.
These are all questions that you are going to know.
Yeah.
That's okay.
So yeah, the question is, what if I teach my kids stance is real or not real and they go to school and another child says stance is real or not real?
That's different, right?
And so this is what I said at the meetup the other day 'cause someone directly asked me that question.
And I said, what if you make it about
your family and what your family believes and family values.
And it can be a great way to actually open up that conversation.
Right.
So you can say something like, in our family, we see Santa as a character.
And we like to pretend and we like to imagine Santa, but in Sophie's family, she sees Santa as real, right?
And that's what her family believes, and that's what her family sees.
And that's okay.
It's not our job to tell other kids what to think or what to believe.
So we can respect that that's what Sophie thinks, and we can know that our family thinks something different.
Or vice versa, right?
And it can be a great way to start to teach your kids how to respect other people's beliefs and values.
Yeah, for sure.
I know we did that with our oldest 'cause one of her best friends is a
Fierce believer in Santa and we are very careful about making sure that she doesn't burst that bubble.
One question that's related to this.
Yep
Someone sent in a very long email.
I'm just gonna distill it down to one short question, but is it our job as parents to make sure Santa isn't ruined for other kids?
That's the thing.
Maybe some parents will be like, well, I'm not going to trick my child into believing something that I don't want them to believe for the sake of other kids.
Which I know is not what you're saying, but our job is always to be aligned with our own values and teach our kids those things, right?
What I would say is whatever story we teach our kids, whether Santa's real or not real, we have to know that we run the risk of our kids are going to be in public around other kids that may or may not tell them something.
And this is a greater lesson about everything we teach our kids, right?
Whatever belief system that you have in your house and that you instill in your own children, they can go to school or friends or karate or whatever and someone can tell them something different.
And this is where with Santa, this is where I've gotten into trouble in the past saying that I personally don't like teaching our kids that Santa is real because I want them to be able to trust the things that I tell them are real.
Yep.
And if I spend several years trying to convince them that Santa is real when he's not real, you know, the magic
maybe is real and the imagination and the play and all of that, but Santa as a person coming down your chimney isn't actually happening.
I don't want to risk breaking that trust with my kids for the things that I do tell them are real.
Yeah, like the most let's one of the most important values that we have as a family is truth, truth telling.
So then that doesn't really align with the way we do literally everything else.
Yeah.
So if that doesn't align with our core value of telling the truth and being honest as a family, that's why that's not something that we do is is teach them the Santa is real story.
That's why we go with the character story and the imagination story
In which case our kids still want to imagine Santa and think that he's real.
Right.
We still watch Christmas movies, we still do all the things.
I would say it's fun.
We'll we'll still do the cookies, we'll still do the carrots
So I would just recommend to parents figure out the story that's gonna work for your family.
Just be reflective on it.
You'll figure out what's best for you.
I don't need to I can't tell parents what's best for them.
That's not our job.
Yeah
The thing that I would avoid so I remember hearing from parents for so many years, Well, is it okay if I use Santa as a way to get my kid to behave over the holiday season?
They don't want to get a lumpacole.
And
I want them to be nice, so can I use Santa as a way to get them to behave?
And what I will say is that that strategy will fall flat.
Like it will not work for you in the long term
Sure, your kids may be motivated in the short term to behave because they want presents, but long term, as soon as Christmas is over, you're left without a plan.
It's it's a very short-term plan.
And we are not actually teaching our children why they should behave.
We're not helping them learn a new skill.
I think there's that.
And then also, let's say for myself.
If someone were to tell me something is real and then try to control my behavior through that thing they're telling me is real, and then I find out
You actually lied to me this whole time?
Yeah.
Like this is me personally.
I would say, oh, this person's full of sh.
Why should I listen to anything?
And this is already what I was thinking as a kid, right?
Like I'm already seeing teachers
Telling us things and then finding out, um, but it's not actually true, but they're using that to control the classroom or whatever.
And then I would of course that's me
fight back against that because I'm like I don't want someone to try and control me constantly and That's your counter will right?
Yeah exactly.
My counter will comes out very quickly.
I think holiday season is the season of bribes and threats
Right?
If you don't listen, then we're not going to grandma's for Christmas.
If you don't listen, you're not getting any presents from Santa.
If you don't XYZ, then you're not gonna get XYZ.
And so I want parents to be mindful of that this time of year too.
'Cause again, if how we teach kids is through modeling in our own behavior how we want them to behave, threatening them, bribing them is only gonna teach them how to use the same tools back on you, first off
And second, your child's gonna learn that you're not gonna follow through with that.
Right?
The amount of times I've heard parents come into the office and it's no judgment because I know
It feels like something that's gonna work.
Right.
They'll come into the office and feels productive.
It feels productive, right?
I told him that if he doesn't listen, he's not getting any presents on Christmas.
It's like, okay, well, were you planning on following through with that?
Because he didn't listen.
Well, no.
Of course I'm gonna give him his presence.
Right.
So what does he learn, right?
He learns that you're gonna give him an empty threat.
You're probably not gonna follow through with it.
And that's it, right?
So he learns to not take you seriously.
And then the next time you have to up the threat
to try and hope that he'll take you seriously.
So it's just a plan that's not going to work in the long term and that's not what I want for parents.
Yeah.
It's possibly short-term gains.
Yes.
But in the long term.
That's not effective.
And it can be damaging to the relationship, right?
If our plan for discipline is based on threats or taking things away or this other being, Santa, taking it.
Or the same thing about Elf on the Shop.
Yeah, I mean it's talking, let's say talking to Santa.
Yeah, let's do the same thing.
It's the same thing with the elf.
I don't want to get too into the elf because Is it basically the exact like it's the same thing?
I don't know that much about it, so
Let the elf be fun and imaginative if you're gonna do it.
Take the naughty nice language out of it.
I know a buddy of mine like sets up all these elaborate things with his wife and will like set up a zip line across the house and have the elf in the morning
In the middle of the zip line stuck or something like that.
And do funny things like that.
And like good for you if you have the energy.
I don't.
Yeah.
That sounds like a lot of words, right?
Yeah.
But it's the same thing.
We want to avoid using the elf as a way to manipulate behavior.
It's just not gonna work for you in the long term.
And instead make it fun, make it play.
Use it as a way to connect.
And if we do that, we'll see less challenging behavior too.
So then it's a win-win.
Yeah, you're definitely getting canceled for this episode.
I know.
That's why I was nervous to do it.
Can we go back a little bit?
Of course.
Why do you think this topic has been so polarizing?
Like we've talked about it every year and without fail every year people are pissed.
No matter what you say, like you could say, yeah
It's fine.
You do it one way, you do it the other way.
Like either way is fine, but just maybe don't do these things because they're not going to be able to do that.
And yet still for some reason.
Because
It's very upsetting.
It's a deeper thing where we are very attached to our core childhood memories and we are very defensive about our childhood.
And if we're not reflective on, okay, well this worked for me as a kid, so I'm gonna repeat this.
This didn't work, so I'm not gonna do that, if we don't have that reflection
When I say we don't do Santa because it's important to us to be truthful to our kids, that triggers maybe a wound that we didn't know about or, hey, I've been doing that and are you calling me a liar?
Right?
And I just want parents to know that is not it.
And that's why I give them multiple options, right?
We can do the Santa's real story.
in a way that's not traumatizing to kids, right?
Like I'm not saying that all parents who do that are in the wrong in any way.
I think that there can be a nice way to do that.
Can I be the polarizing person here and just ask, how is it possible to tell your child that Santa's real and not kind of be a liar about it?
Right?
Like that to me doesn't add up
In my mind, you can't say like I'm truthful with my kids and then also say the tooth fairy is real and like whatever, all these things that to me doesn't make sense.
So to roleplay it out, I'll roleplay it as the parent.
who would come to me with this.
Yeah.
Right?
Okay, but it's not that big a deal.
I grew up thinking Santa was real and it was the most magical memories.
And then I found out
When I was eight, my mom pulled me aside and said, stance is actually not real.
You're old enough to know the truth now.
And that felt magical to me too.
And then I passed it down to my siblings.
So what's so bad about that?
That felt magical to know that Yeah, but see, I feel like, let's say here where we live in in Canada, I feel like a lot of people celebrate Christmas.
and like celebrate it by going out and hanging out with family and doing fun, like sometimes giving gifts to each other.
And I feel like for me, the magical part was I remember going to my grandparents on their dairy farm
And my grandmother would always decorate her house with like all these little I think there were little Dutch houses.
Like she still does it now, but
little houses that light up and everything and it's I'm pretty sure it's like a Dutch tradition that you do this.
And she would set up like these elaborate little towns in her house and remove all the other decorations and have this and have like tinsel on her Christmas tree and
And all these colorful lights, which is why I convinced you that colorful lights are better.
Yeah.
But it had nothing to do with like Santa or whatever.
Like i watching movies was a part of that, but it wasn't specifically that.
It was hanging out
Specifically at my grandparents on their dairy farm and having snow there and going in the hot tub on their back deck and like doing all fun things like that.
Those are the memories that I have of that
time but it didn't involve being told the story of Santa as though it was real.
Mm-hmm.
So I don't know.
Maybe it's just because I never had that
Yeah.
I can maybe see the difference and if you did have it, then it's harder to see that difference and like it's still possible to have that exact same like magical feeling.
Yeah.
I think that's the hard part.
If we grew up with Santa as being real and that's So basically I'm gonna get you canceled on this one.
Yeah.
I mean, I hope not.
But I think if if you grew up and Santa was real and your parents told you that story and they made it feel real for you, it felt like the reindeer were coming down, I can see how that would feel magical
And I can see how all your childhood memories around the holiday season would be intertwined with Santa Claus being real.
The same way that your childhood memories going to the farm and having the tinsel and the tree and the twinkly lights.
you know, it were all kind of around your grandma and and that felt really magical for you.
I think it's really hard to separate that magical feeling and Santa for people who grew up with that, right?
It's hard to know that
Oh, perhaps it would still have felt just as magical if you had that play and that fun with your parents and your family and Stan wasn't seen as real.
And I think that's why people get defensive over it, right?
Yeah, I mean that's fair.
So I think it's actually really fair and I understand it and that's why I like to give both perspectives.
But I guess in the grand scheme of things it's a pretty minor Yeah, I think it I think it can be a minor thing as long as we're delicate about it.
Yeah.
Right?
And we never make a kid feel silly for believing in Santa Claus.
And we never expose Santa in front of everybody, making the kid like, oh what the heck you lied to me, you know?
I What about a friend in their mid-thirties?
Our dear friend who still believes in Santa Claus
Right.
And I I think we hold tight the childhood memories that meant the most to us.
And for many people, the holiday season was the most connected time of year to their parents
it revolved around Santa.
You know, maybe their dad was never around or involved and now all of a sudden dad's dressing up as Santa or helping you make the cookies, right?
Like so I understand why people want to pass that down to their kids.
Mm-hmm.
And
I respect that and that's why I like to give the second option.
Yeah.
Okay.
That makes sense.
I can see it.
You can see it and you can say I'm gonna do something different.
This is where values come in, right?
I'm not gonna My beliefs are too ingrained in me now, so then
Hey friends, so at pickup last week our daughter asked Scott a truly kind of tricky question in front of her younger siblings.
Scott was telling me that when he heard a question like this, he used to panic, but this time he had a plan.
And he said to our daughter, thank you for asking.
Let's talk tonight when we've got privacy.
And that's a line that he learned straight from our new body safety and consent course at Nurtur.
So this new body safety and consent course is taught by me.
So Jess, if you listen to this podcast, you know me.
I'm a child therapist and a mom of three, and I have taught body safety and consent education for years.
This course takes all my years of experience teaching this education and gives you calm, age-appropriate language for body parts, consent, and boundaries.
You'll learn how to teach your kids that no means no, you'll learn how to teach them to read facial cues, you'll talk about safe and unspeakable.
safe touch and you'll even teach them about their uh oh feeling.
There's guidance inside this course for the real life stuff like tickling that goes too far and even the difference between a secret and a surprise.
We made this course at Nurture First because research shows that body safety education helps kids speak
sooner and we want that for our family, for Scott and I, but also for you.
So check the course out at nurturefirst.
com slash body safety and to save 10% use the code
Robot Unicorn.
And just full disclosure here, we are the creators of this course and we're so proud of it.
I think this was an email we just got recently that I
paraphrased.
But how can a parent change course?
So they were talking to their child about Santa as though they were real.
And now they've decided actually I want to change course and I want
talk about Santa as a character instead.
So how do you do this?
I think their email said something about like how do I do this without breaking the trust?
that I have with my child.
So basically I'm saying I did all this.
And now I want to change.
And now I'm changing.
Yeah.
And I'm kind of like doing a full 180 on what I've just been uh
So what are all the pieces that are the same, right?
We can still imagine Santa, like I said about our daughters.
We can still make milk and cookies, we can still send off a letter.
We can still play.
You can still do the reindeer hooves on the ceiling if that's what you want to do.
You can still open presents Christmas morning.
All of those things can stay the same.
So kids will find peace in what stays the same
the story maybe just changes just a little bit, right?
So instead of being like Santa's real and Santa's really coming, we can be like, okay, so you know how we talked about how Santa was real last year.
This year, I want to tell you something really special
You know, so Santa was real.
He was a person named Saint Nick and tell them the story of who Saint Nick was and be like a lot of people like to think of Santa still as real, and that's what we did last year.
But I want you to know that we don't actually have a man coming down the chimney.
But you will still get presents Christmas morning and you will still get this and we can still do the cookies if you want to still imagine that he's real
And that's what I do.
That's what mommy does.
That's what daddy does, right?
We still like to imagine Santa's real because it feels special to us.
So I think we can overthink these kinds of conversations.
But trying to remember all the things that are the same and focus on that and then just tell the story of Saint Nick and focus on we're not actually having a man come down the chimney.
But we can still imagine it
Like I think for us the way we've discussed like we celebrate Christmas, the way we celebrate it and the things that we do
And the reasons why we do it.
We explain that to the kids.
And I feel like they trust us because we're honest about what we're doing.
Yeah.
What would break the trust is to be like, hey, remember last year I told you Santa was we girl?
Yeah, he's not.
Yep
You know, like no story to it, no connection to it.
Yeah, he's not real.
You know, sometimes people just say that to kids just because it's fun.
Like not having the story, the connection time, the being on their level, the private conversation
That could break the trust.
So it's just in the way that we approach these conversations that really matters.
Just like everything to do with parenting.
Hmm.
Would you look at that?
Okay, uh this is the last one.
Another very common question, and I mean something that we experience with our girls too.
What should we do and how should we teach our kids?
Let's say if they are receiving gifts to be polite or th grateful for the things that they're giving.
And I mean on top of that, there's
a difference in like financial situations.
Like some parents are very likely not able to afford that much for their kids.
Other ones are able to afford a lot more.
Some kids are getting like exactly what they asked for for Christmas and other kids aren't.
So like how do you teach your child that even though getting new underwear for Christmas
It might not be what they wanted, but it's not okay to be rude about it or grateful about it, I guess.
So I'll maybe change the question.
I don't think you can make kids be grateful
Yeah, I guess you can't force gratefulness.
You can't force gratefulness.
Gratefulness is a feeling that comes from within.
When we see something that someone else has done for us and we feel that feeling inside of our body that's grateful and that's happy and that feels, you know, like an
inner smile towards what's happening and then we say thank you.
We can't force that in kids, especially kids who don't have their prefrontal cortexes.
developed yet, right?
So I think we put a lot of pressure on kids to, you know, say thank you, be grateful.
And then we get mad at kids when they throw the box around
across the room and say they don't like the toy.
So we we just have to be mindful of who we're working with here when it comes to gifts, right?
If your child's under seven, you're working with a child with quite an immature brain that still needs to develop logic and reasoning
And so I just imagine this.
We go to Scott's grandma's who it's still very magical and his grandma still gives us all presents, right?
and it's loud.
We have tons of family around.
It's a busy long day.
Sometimes it's hot.
And so by the time we have one of our daughters, like our toddler, let's say, open a gift, it's been a long day.
She probably missed a nap
It's hot.
Right.
All these things.
So she might open the gift and chuck it across the room because she doesn't like it.
Right?
Does that mean she's ungrateful and bratty and spoiled
Or does that mean that she's probably overstimulated and has just had a super long day and now everybody's eyes are on her expecting some sort of
reaction.
Right.
So at first I think as adults our job is to have just realistic expectations for our kids that are opening gifts and to know that just because your child chucked it across the room or said they don't like it
doesn't mean that's actually true.
They might just have a lot going on and it might just come out in the behavior.
Oh I know if our two younger ones don't
Have enough rest before uh we do that.
There's probably gonna be tears.
We've had tears over pajamas as gifts before and stuff like that, right?
But then oh a week later, they love the pajamas and they wear them every night, you know.
So
I think as adults we have to remember our job is to have reasonable expectations on our little ones and not to take everything so personal.
I think i in that situation too we've often had
conversations with the girls about the meaning behind the gift too.
Like maybe it's whatever, we've gotten them socks before.
We're those parents that get them useful things too that we also Yeah, we always get them something useful like socks or PJs or underwear or whatever.
We explain, like we know you needed this and we thought this was kind of something special for you, like we'll get some fun pajamas or something like that for them.
And we thought this was something special that you might like.
It might not be your favorite thing, but we put thought behind it and this was specific to you.
Yeah.
We could tell them the story of the gift.
Yeah.
And then I would Which might sound like a lot of work to some parents.
Yeah, it might be.
But I I think gifts are more special when you know the story behind it.
Yeah.
Even some
Like small things.
Honestly, the girls can receive the smallest thing.
If there's a special story behind it.
Like if I gave them a rock and I was like when I was in Vancouver I was walking and I saw this rock on the side of the road and
picked it up and I gave it a hug and I thought, oh look how sparkly this rock is, I bet she would love it.
And I put it in a box and I packaged it up and
A rock would then be special, right?
So telling your kids the story of the gift and why it matters, that's a way to build gratitude and to teach your child
you know, why they might feel grateful.
It's not just you are receiving something in that moment.
It means someone like it was premeditated.
They actually thought about it and they
discern like what this person, what you might like and put time into it and it's not just like someone tapped a card and bought this thing for you and that was it.
And if we think about the way that kids attach, right?
They feel closest to us when they know that we've been thinking about them even when they're not there.
So we actually can use gifts as a way to connect and
build and foster our attachment with our kids, but that doesn't mean the gift has to be fancy, like my story of the rock.
Like it could be anything.
But having the story behind it and and showing your kid, I thought of you even when you weren't there.
And
That's why I thought this gift would be so special for you and and giving them that story will help.
The other thing that we can do is let's say you're worried about gratitude at grandma's house or something like that
You can do a roleplay with your kid.
As long as I don't have to do it, it's fine.
Well I think we already did a roleplay before, remember?
Did we?
Yeah, but that doesn't I got you.
I got it.
I got it in.
And I wasn't gonna say it while we were doing it, but you can roleplay out with your kids, right?
And maybe we can say being respectful and being polite.
Being respectful and being polite is important when we go to grandma's house, right?
And tell them the story.
We tell our kids the story of grandma
Grandma thinks of you all year long, which is true.
Scott's grandma does do this.
Yeah, she pretty much starts I think starts on some collection of gifts, like at the beginning of the new year already
So Grandma thinks of you all year long.
She's thinking about what you might like as a gift.
She's gonna give you some gifts.
And what's really important to us and to grandma, you know, that when we open the gift, we say thank you to Grandma.
You know, that's being respectful, that's being polite, and that's important.
Even if you don't love the gift.
Because sometimes they don't love the gift right away
Usually later they end up liking it.
But again they might be over the side.
Some of the gifts we don't like because of what they are and the girls love them.
Right.
But we can still
teach respect, but that comes through modeling respect and maybe even having a little role play, a little discussion before so they know what the expectation is.
Yeah, I mean our toddler
Like a two year old.
You could roleplay all you want.
Yeah, she's still gonna chuck the box across the room and be like, No, I don't like it.
Or maybe love it.
Yeah, you never know.
One year our daughter, I was like, I don't know how this is gonna go.
She got a t-shirt
And before we knew it, she was stripping down naked, putting the t-shirt on in front of everyone.
Right.
And then that was another conversation.
Okay, let's just you know, we don't take our clothes off in front of the whole family
But I think if we come in with the realistic expectation, we tell the story, we use gifts as a way to connect, build attachment, and do some role play.
I think that's the best we can do.
And then if our kids are still angry and upset, then take them to a calm, quiet moment, you know, take them to the bathroom, talk to them there, get them away from all the family.
It can be really overstimulating for little ones.
Yes.
So I think for little kids that all makes sense.
Mm-hmm.
We do have some followers that have
Older kids.
So like preteens and teenagers and stuff like that.
I'd say same thing.
Right?
So we might un like I don't know.
Uh teenager, do you think you would have sat there and listened to your mom?
Like let's roleplay this out.
Okay, not the roleplay, but the expectation when we go to grandma's house.
Yeah, yeah, okay.
So maybe you're not gonna roleplay it out in the same way.
But I still would tell a teenager the story of why the gift matters.
I would I mean maybe you're teaching our girls young enough to how to roleplay, so then they'll want to continue doing that.
Yeah
Grumpy Sean will roleplay it with them.
Teenager, yeah.
I can just imagine.
They'll probably still love it.
I still, I hope one day
When we're in pickup line to get the kids from school, all of a sudden Grumpy Sean pops out the window and they come up.
Grumpy Sean is my hand puppet if this is the first episode you've listened to.
Uh we can link the episode where we talk about Grumpy Sean.
But it's on playfulness.
It's on playfulness, yeah.
Anyways, do you have any last words of wisdom to give parents about this time of year and the questions that you've received over the years
I think parents know within themselves the story that's gonna work for their own families when it comes to Santa.
And the thing that one time that made me the saddest is that someone said they were following my stories on Santa and they decided for their own family, not because I said so.
Right.
I always say you choose your own values that they didn't want to do Santa with their kids.
And in doing that, it meant that they didn't get invited to their family's Christmas that year.
Because their family was so committed to doing Santa and not having anyone spoil it for their children that they said if you
refuse to teach your kids at San Israel, you may not come.
Wow, I've never heard of that before.
That seems a bit excessive.
In a no, it causes division and failure.
families.
And so that is Santa does.
Santa does.
And I know that because I've heard that every year for the last seven years I've been talking about Santa.
Really?
Yes.
Okay.
I feel like that's a new one for me.
I've never heard that from you.
Yeah
So my wisdom on that would be, you know, just have an open mind to whatever your family's doing
See how you can work it out.
There's a lot of love to give in your families.
And maybe not, you know, maybe that is a boundary and you're like, okay, if you don't want me to come because of Santa, then
That's probably an indication that there's more going on than just Santa.
But it can be a really tricky time of year with families
and values.
Yep.
And your job is your own family and your own values that you have within your family.
And then seeing how that can work
among a family system that probably all thinks of things maybe a little bit differently.
And my hope for my children and for everyone's children is that we can learn how to respect each other.
and how to honor each other's value systems and maybe Santa's a way to model that to our kids, right?
That we can honor people who feel differently and think differently than us and still respect them and still be in community with them.
Yeah.
There's no need to judge.
Yeah, we don't need to judge.
And I just want to leave people on that because I I hate to hear when something like that causes a division in families.
That seems crazy to me, but not surprising.
Yeah
And so I mean there's a lot of things dividing.
There's a lot of things that divide humans.
And the holidays, that's maybe a whole other episode, is a time Yeah, that's a just a separate discussion for sure.
for families and so remember your job is your kids and maybe we see how we can keep our own values and boundaries and be in community or not whether family.
I guess it's a whole other episode, but let us know if you want to hear that one
Might be too late this year.
Yeah.
Well we might have to do it in the new year.
Okay.
Sounds good.
Well, thanks for discussing Jess and all of the wisdom that you
spewed out to everyone.
I hope it was helpful.
I really do.
Do you like that term?
Can't take you serious.
We'll talk to you all soon.
Thanks.
Bye.
Hey friends, thank you so much for listening to today's episode.
We are glad that you are here.
If you enjoyed today's episode and found it interesting, we'd really appreciate it if you'd leave a rating and a review.
Scott and I actually sit down together and read them all.
A five-star rating helps us share our podcast and get these important messages out there.
Thank you so much for listening and we can't wait to talk to you again next time.