Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Keeping Skor: Creativity, Curiosity, and the Things We Keep. A podcast about why people collect the things they love. Each episode begins with a collection - but the conversation quickly expands into something deeper: memory, imagination, and the choices we make about what matters. Through thoughtful conversations with collectors of all kinds, Keeping Skor explores the stories, passions, and meaning behind the objects people choose to keep.
Casey Herdt: I'm doing great! How are you doing?
Stephen Skorski: Fantastic. I am super, super excited to talk to you, for many reasons. One, Katie speaks very highly of you, and so I know that's always a good sign.
Stephen Skorski: And I love, I'm excited just to get to know you, and I'm really excited to hear about your collection, and your relationship with tarot, and…
Stephen Skorski: Oracle decks, so… super excited.
Casey Herdt: Me too. And Katie is just such a fabulous human being, and she speaks so highly of you, too. And, yeah, when she's like, would you ever want to talk about your tarot or oracle card decks? I almost leapt out of my skin. I was so…
Stephen Skorski: We're connected.
Casey Herdt: So I'm like, oh my gosh, to nerd out on a phone conversation about this just feels like, a dream come true. So thank you for inviting me!
Stephen Skorski: Oh my gosh, yeah, well, you're welcome, but the pleasure is all mine.
Stephen Skorski: So, yeah, so this is just, just, just a conversation, right? So, I don't have a lot of prepared questions, just, they just kind of normally, you know, they just kind of organically come up.
Stephen Skorski: But, before we even get into anything tarot-related, I don't know you, right? I really… I don't really know anything about you, and I would love to know, you know, a little bit about you, and so maybe you could…
Stephen Skorski: you know, describe something like, you know, what your normal day looks like, or your normal week, or… you know, just give me a little window into Casey's world.
Casey Herdt: Okay, awesome. So, a little window into my world. Well, I'm a recent ex-expat, so I just…
Casey Herdt: a year ago, almost to the day, moved from Germany back to Scottsdale, Arizona, which is the land of my birth. I was actually born in Tucson, Arizona.
Casey Herdt: And so, I… my husband and I, and our dog, Peachy.
Casey Herdt: moved back to Arizona, and I currently live on what I call the compound, which is a really beautiful piece of property in Scottsdale that is shared
Casey Herdt: with my parents. So there's two homes on this property. My husband and my dog and I live in one, and my parents and their two badass chihuahuas live in the other.
Casey Herdt: And it is so interesting going from living either across the country or across the world, from family to, like, being in the backyard. And it's kind of fabulous. I absolutely love it. It feels so good to be
Casey Herdt: Back in the desert, after living in, like, Boston and Asheville and the forests of Germany.
Casey Herdt: to being in somewhere very, very opposite of that. So, I am kind of like a… how would I describe it? Like a…
Casey Herdt: Wellness and self-care Sherpa. I help people
Casey Herdt: create wellness plans for themselves. And tarot's definitely can be a part of that, if people are into it. And so my days are usually getting up with the dog, having some coffee.
Casey Herdt: Husband's either already working, or,
Casey Herdt: you know, doing his own thing. I come into my office, which you got to see a few seconds of, and I meet with people on Zoom, and essentially do, you know, coaching sessions on Zoom. And then we'll have lunch, and then I'll maybe have another session or two in the afternoon.
Casey Herdt: And then it's time to cook for the compound. My husband and I love to cook, so we throw down in the kitchen, and it definitely helps out my parents, and…
Casey Herdt: So we feed them about 5 days a week, and yeah, and then sometimes in the evenings, you know, watch a little TV, and then that's it. Read a book and go to bed. Very exciting!
Stephen Skorski: No, that's… oh my god, that's amazing. I mean, what a nice,
Stephen Skorski: You know, I think the multi-generational living structure is,
Stephen Skorski: so underrated, and it's sad that it doesn't exist the way it used to. So, to hear you say that you have that sounds like such a… just an amazing, you know, blessing, really. Fantastic.
Casey Herdt: Yeah, it really is, and I have to tell you, it's pretty fun, like.
Casey Herdt: I don't know, I just… you know, I made the choice to not have kids, and I'm very happy about that choice, and I'm seeing now how that has, like, freed me up to be able to be of service to my parents, but, like, my parents are cool, too. I should also, like, preface, like, I have cool parents.
Casey Herdt: They're not, like, busybodies, they're not anything like that. It's just, we're sharing resources, we're helping each other out how and when we can, and, it makes…
Casey Herdt: life feel more fulfilling, to be perfectly honest, to be able to share just everyday stuff. Yeah, it's really great. We love it. We're very happy about it.
Stephen Skorski: Oh, that's so cool. How long were you in Germany for?
Casey Herdt: 8 years.
Stephen Skorski: Okay.
Casey Herdt: Hmm…
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, that's… I lived in… I lived in Korea for 5, so I know the… I know the feeling of sort of being… being away, and… and all the… all the… well, actually, I mean, for me, I mean, I don't know, you tell me about you, but for me, it was almost all positive. I loved it. How about you?
Casey Herdt: Oh, that's great. I cannot say it's all positive.
Stephen Skorski: Okay.
Casey Herdt: But living in Europe was fabulous, but living in Germany was a little bit more challenging, and
Casey Herdt: And we were also there during COVID, which they did COVID very, very, very differently than.
Stephen Skorski: Here?
Casey Herdt: Yeah. And so, I think that kind of…
Casey Herdt: you know, broke the rose-colored glasses, we'll say. But, you know, look at… I look at it more affectionately looking back at it than when I was in it.
Stephen Skorski: Hmm, sure.
Casey Herdt: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: That, that, that's… well, that's, that's what a great,
Stephen Skorski: what a great adaptation we have to do that. You know, like…
Casey Herdt: Yes.
Stephen Skorski: Our memories are really, they're wonderful in that way, that hopefully they filter out the nonsense and the not-so-good parts, yeah.
Casey Herdt: Yes, absolutely. But being an ex-cat was fabulous. Like, being in.
Casey Herdt: fabulous. Like, there was many things, and it's, enriched me and made me tougher, and I appreciate that.
Stephen Skorski: Hmm, okay. Made you tougher, I like that.
Casey Herdt: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: Okay, so then you gave us a little, little window into your day. Seems kind of varied, so maybe this is not exactly,
Stephen Skorski: applicable, but… Is there any particular things that you spend most of your time thinking about?
Casey Herdt: Oh my goodness. Well, there's always something that I spend a lot of time thinking about. I am…
Casey Herdt: very, unapologetically ADHD, so sometimes it will depend on what I'm hyper-focusing on. But, deep dives are something that I truly enjoy. I am an investigator by heart, like, just heart and soul.
Casey Herdt: And so, when I come across something interesting.
Casey Herdt: that may completely or partially pertain to something I'm working on, oh, you better believe I'm in the zone. But consistently, what I will say is,
Casey Herdt: you know.
Casey Herdt: tarot cards and oracle cards are one of those consistent since I was 15 years old. Deep dives, deep loves, but yeah.
Casey Herdt: I don't know, it's like, tell me the day, and I'll tell you about 3 different things that my wheels are turning on, for sure.
Stephen Skorski: Okay. Well, yeah, well, tell us then about your… so, 15…
Casey Herdt: Right?
Stephen Skorski: Little Casey's 15, and how… how does, tarot enter your life? What's the… what's the origin story there?
Casey Herdt: Oh, this is… this is a good one. So, and you know, I might have been younger, I might… how old are you when… how old are we when we're in, like, 7th grade? Doesn't matter. 7th grade, we'll say.
Stephen Skorski: No, I think closer to probably, like, 12, right?
Casey Herdt: 12. Oh, well then… Well then, here we go.
Stephen Skorski: I think, right? Maybe? I don't know. Yeah.
Casey Herdt: Well, I had this, like, cute little boyfriend when I was in seventh grade, who was the nicest kid, came from a great family, and I kind of lived in a neighborhood where everybody
Casey Herdt: lived near each other, so everyone was, like, walking distance from each other. So I went over to, my boyfriend's house at the time, and he had two older brothers, and one of his brothers was, like, in high school, right? And we all just idolized him.
Casey Herdt: And… one day, we're just hanging out, and his brother brought out a tarot card deck.
Stephen Skorski: Hmm.
Casey Herdt: And, like, I should also set the scene, like.
Casey Herdt: this is the 90s, right? So we're all alternative rock, listening to Nirvana, like, Junko Jeans, Total Grunge, so this is, like, right up my alley. Like, Hot Topic is the place that I'm going to in the mall. Like, that's my haven. And…
Casey Herdt: So, tarot cards, you know, I'd never had my cards pulled, I'd heard about them.
Casey Herdt: And I'd actually heard about them through my grandfather on my dad's side, but I'd never really seen them in their entirety, or did a reading. And so, my boyfriend's older brother gave me his… what he called his, like, pet grounding rock to hold onto, and then
Casey Herdt: he did a card poll. I don't even know the question I asked. I kind of wish I did. I'm sure it was something along the lines of…
Casey Herdt: You know, am I gonna pass the test tomorrow, or who knows what? And…
Casey Herdt: These cards came out. And… it was…
Casey Herdt: amazing. It felt magical. I had never experienced something like that. I'd never experienced, like, being able to ask a question, and having these cards laid out in this way, and what each card represented.
Casey Herdt: And You know, in the moment, in my 7th grade brain, I was just…
Casey Herdt: in awe of this, and in awe of the person reading them, like, wow, you just got so much insight, and it was so easy.
Casey Herdt: And I think, you know, looking back again with that kind of, like, looking into the past, you know, Adult Me kind of looks at that
Casey Herdt: moment of, like, I felt like pulling the cards
Casey Herdt: was, like, a recognition of, like, how my brain works a little bit. You know, I'm a very visual thinker.
Stephen Skorski: And so…
Casey Herdt: It felt deeply resonant in that way, it felt comfortable, and
Casey Herdt: And it was art. It was art that told me things about myself, or about the world, and…
Casey Herdt: It just felt… It felt truly comforting.
Casey Herdt: And it felt truly like… A very, very, like, integral Piece of me felt…
Casey Herdt: validated in some way. Like, I grew up in…
Casey Herdt: a culture that, like, you know, everyone was an athlete. It's like, what sports are you in? That's what everyone wants to know. Like, people even kind of don't care about how well you're doing in school. It's like, are you killing it on the soccer field? And so this…
Casey Herdt: card pull…
Casey Herdt: just was so radically different than everything I was experiencing in my life at such a formative time that, I don't know, it just… it sparked something in me, that I haven't… I haven't let go of yet, and I'm 43, so…
Casey Herdt: You know? It's important. Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, I mean, that's… that's amazing. I mean, that… Well, I mean…
Stephen Skorski: You're talking about the power of… the cards.
Stephen Skorski: But the fact that it was so…
Stephen Skorski: powerful and inspirational the first time you were exposed to it is really, really interesting. You talked about several different aspects of that.
Stephen Skorski: Was there one, you know, was it the artwork, the symbolism, the person reading? I mean, can you identify one of those that you think was more important than the other, or was it just sort of the total package of this thing that you were being exposed to?
Casey Herdt: Good question. I would say, if I were to drill down to kind of one facet that stood out the most.
Casey Herdt: was its ability to regulate my anxiety. I have always been an anxious person.
Casey Herdt: especially when I was a kid, I just couldn't get ahold of it. I couldn't get reins on it. And…
Casey Herdt: The ability to be able to ask a question about my life that was giving me anxiety, and to have
Casey Herdt: Some sort of answer.
Casey Herdt: And also, a tool that I could go to to keep asking if I needed more reassurance, felt really stabilizing. And I think that's…
Casey Herdt: What sticks out?
Casey Herdt: the most.
Casey Herdt: was… it's, yeah, I would say ability to… regulate my anxiety.
Stephen Skorski: Hmm.
Casey Herdt: Amazing to me.
Stephen Skorski: Hmm.
Stephen Skorski: So, were you… at first, was there any skepticism? Was it… or were you just right on board day one? Moment one?
Casey Herdt: I think I was right on board moment one. I think skepticism came later on in my relationship with pulling cards, but in that kind of, you know, little Casey…
Casey Herdt: 7th grade.
Casey Herdt: mind. This was just… It was… I was all in. I totally believed it.
Stephen Skorski: So, okay, do you think… for you.
Stephen Skorski: was it the psychological aspect of it, the mystical aspect, the artistic? Right? Because there's the cards, but then there's sort of, like, what you're feeling inside of you. And you talked about the soothing…
Stephen Skorski: But what was… what do you think was sort of doing the soothing, right? What was happening there that…
Stephen Skorski: Was, was helping that.
Casey Herdt: So, I think this is great. I think part of it was…
Casey Herdt: The kind of psychological, intellectual part of…
Casey Herdt: the information that you get. I think that that was soothing to me, and the ability to ask more questions felt really nice.
Casey Herdt: I also, again, love art, and so I felt like I could really understand why those cards meant what the reader was saying. I was like, oh, cool, and the symbol… like, learning the symbolism from the art, I was like, this is incredible, I, you know.
Casey Herdt: It just felt like instant recognition.
Casey Herdt: But also, you know, it didn't…
Casey Herdt: Maybe there was a part of it that felt like, this is magical and mystical, but that was not the… that's… that's not what hit me the hardest.
Casey Herdt: It was definitely… you know, now… now that I'm thinking back, you know.
Casey Herdt: someone was interested in me, like, also, like, this person was sitting there asking me questions, and reading cards, and asking more questions of me, and how does this pertain to you? I mean, some of that magic was in the person that I was in discourse with, that I was speaking with, and it was like, wow, like…
Casey Herdt: This is getting deeper than what
Casey Herdt: most people get from me, and asking deeper questions about me, and revealing deeper things about me. Like, information was coming out of me in that conversation that, you know, I might have briefly thought about.
Casey Herdt: But taking the time to actually talk about it was just…
Casey Herdt: Totally novel. A totally novel experience for me.
Stephen Skorski: How much of that do you think is the age you were?
Casey Herdt: I…
Stephen Skorski: You know what I mean? Do you think… do you think if you were exposed to this when you were 18, it would have felt the same way, or was… do you think this was really sort of just this critical… critical kind of… maybe not even critical, but just like this,
Stephen Skorski: I don't know,
Stephen Skorski: what's the right word, almost like fate, right? It's like, at the moment, you kind of needed something, something shows up, or… yeah, what do you think?
Casey Herdt: I mean, it would have absolutely been different with an older brain, right? And more experience. I definitely… and so I guess what I would say is that I'm glad it happened when it did, because that was a really critical time for me. That was…
Casey Herdt: of, you know, middle school… oh my goodness, I'm not sure how middle school went for you.
Casey Herdt: But middle school for me was really difficult.
Stephen Skorski: Hmm.
Casey Herdt: And there was, like, a lot of, bullying and things like that. And…
Casey Herdt: I'm really glad that pulling cards came into my life right before all of that happens.
Casey Herdt: I'm very glad.
Stephen Skorski: Hmm.
Casey Herdt: So, maybe it's a… it's a mix of, fates,
Casey Herdt: And then, yeah, yeah, it would have been different older, but I'm so glad that I had a positive
Casey Herdt: experience young with, like, a family that I knew, and it wasn't made to be weird, or edgy, or too esoteric. It was just like, hey, I do this cool thing, would you like to try? And it just, I don't know, it was like a very…
Casey Herdt: lovely, normal experience.
Casey Herdt: And I'm really glad I had it. Really glad.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah.
Casey Herdt: that time.
Stephen Skorski: Do you remember how old this person was, and… and what was the deck?
Casey Herdt: Yes, so the person was… he must have been either a freshman or a sophomore in high school.
Stephen Skorski: Wow! So he's, like, 15.
Casey Herdt: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: And you might have even said that before, but I mean… I mean, that's… that's ridiculous, that's crazy, that he, you know, like, this 15-year-old is reading for a 12-year-old, and, you know, you're having this, you know, this… this impactful kind of life moment. Wow, okay.
Casey Herdt: Okay. Yeah, it was young, and it was a traditional, like, Rider-Waite deck. It was just this old… the good old standard. I think he bought it at Hot Topic, you know, because I asked him, like, where did you get these? He's like, Hot Topic, which was, like, our mecca, you know? Yeah.
Casey Herdt: So, that was… I guess, you know, I had never thought about it that way.
Casey Herdt: And you're right, I mean, that is very young, and like…
Casey Herdt: Very cool. I never even thought about it like that.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, I mean, think of your typical 15-year-old boy right now. Yeah. Oh my gosh.
Casey Herdt: Right.
Stephen Skorski: That's who I was listening to?
Casey Herdt: Totally, and you know, you know, we just all, you know, we're like, oh, he's the coolest ever. He's so nice to us, he's so cool, you know, always had the great new music, and all the things, you know, we always looked up to him so much, so… absolutely.
Stephen Skorski: That's awesome. Okay, so, so that is actually really helpful to understand a little bit of the, you know, the backstory.
Stephen Skorski: Do you remember your… so, was there a content… was it almost like a media, you know, you run out the next afternoon and buy your first deck, or is there a gap in between when you re-engage with these things?
Casey Herdt: Yeah, great question. So, I… I did not immediately go out and get it, because I think, you know, I'm, like, really working my brain cells here to remember. So I…
Casey Herdt: You know, I think there was a time where I was like, oh, not only he does this, this is, like, his thing. Like, if I have questions, I go to him as the reader, right? And I… it was…
Casey Herdt: you know, but I would always look at the deck, you know, at Hot Topic, and be like, oh, is this something I want to get? And I think about a year later is when I was like, I'm gonna get a deck. And I think I was, like, getting ready for, like, a sleepover, you know, and we were gonna watch the craft.
Casey Herdt: And…
Stephen Skorski: Cold territory.
Casey Herdt: Again, I'm dating myself pretty heavily here, you know? Yeah, we're gonna watch the craft.
Casey Herdt: do our makeup, like the craft, and we were gonna pull cards, and I was like, I'll get the tarot deck.
Casey Herdt: an idea.
Stephen Skorski: Nothing.
Casey Herdt: That I brought to the party. Eyeliner, black eyeliner from Wet n' Wild, and .
Stephen Skorski: tarot cards.
Stephen Skorski: From Wet and Wild, nice!
Stephen Skorski: So you were a mall girl, I mean, is this…
Casey Herdt: Oh, oh yeah, oh yeah, definitely.
Stephen Skorski: And where are we at this point? Where in the world are we located?
Casey Herdt: We are in Tucson, Arizona.
Stephen Skorski: Like, back then, this is where you grew up? Yeah. Okay, so Tucson, Arizona, going to the mall, buying your makeup, getting your occult, you know, on. Okay, I like it, I like it.
Stephen Skorski: And so that first deck was a, rider weight deck? Yeah. Okay. Yep. Okay. Cool.
Casey Herdt: Exactly. Do you still have.
Stephen Skorski: have it?
Casey Herdt: Oh, gosh, you know what's sad is that I don't. I have one, but not that one. I think I gave that deck…
Casey Herdt: I think I gave that deck away to a friend that was having a really tough time, and I was like, here, use these.
Casey Herdt: And that is something that I do. I gift decks all the time to people, where I'm like, this deck… this is the perfect deck for you. Like…
Stephen Skorski: Hmm, okay, that's cool. I definitely want to hear more about that, in a bit, because I think that's really…
Stephen Skorski: whenever somebody has a collection, and they're able to give some of it away, I think that's really, really fascinating. So, so I want to dig a little bit deeper into that in a bit, but first, so… so now that I have this background, kind of the big question, right? What,
Stephen Skorski: What is your understanding of tarot?
Stephen Skorski: Meaning…
Stephen Skorski: why do you think it works? You know, why does it work? How does it work? Can it work for anyone? Because, I mean, and when I'm asking this question, I don't think there's any right answers, there's no judgment, you know, this is just… I understand how personal these things can be, so…
Stephen Skorski: It's really helpful for me to understand
Stephen Skorski: All your other answers, right, through the lens of what you think this thing is actually doing.
Casey Herdt: Mmm, I love that. Okay, so I would say my younger years, you know, I really…
Casey Herdt: Relied on it as, you know.
Casey Herdt: hopefully seeing into the future, telling the outcomes of things, right? Dealing with existential anxiety, I would say. And,
Casey Herdt: You know, that was okay for a time.
Casey Herdt: But there are limits. Like, I do feel like there are, you know.
Casey Herdt: some limits, and where pulling cards, I'll just say, broke open for me is when I truly started to realize it's more about the questions that I'm asking myself.
Casey Herdt: It's, it's made me really great at asking questions.
Casey Herdt: And I feel…
Casey Herdt: as if sometimes they're mirrors, and sometimes the information from the cards is there to explore an idea and thought that we wouldn't get to through our own kind of high-traffic mindsets. You know, we have, you know.
Casey Herdt: having that outside influence of a card, be like, I never thought about what this card means in relationship to the question that I asked.
Casey Herdt: And so, I use… It now almost… As, yeah, a mirror.
Casey Herdt: To myself, and… So that I can understand where I'm even coming from when I'm confused.
Casey Herdt: But then also, kind of just, like.
Casey Herdt: As a way to get an outside opinion.
Casey Herdt: And an outside way of thinking where I can get caught in a loop.
Casey Herdt: And that's where I value it the most.
Casey Herdt: And so, it's a much more, like, philosophical bend, or intellectual bend.
Casey Herdt: I think I… I appreciate it.
Casey Herdt: And… And then there are those moments where…
Casey Herdt: You know, you pull a card, and you ask a really important question.
Casey Herdt: And you get that card. That card that you were thinking about, or that you were hoping for, and that synchronicity hits.
Casey Herdt: And, those are special moments, too.
Casey Herdt: And I don't know… I can't…
Casey Herdt: I don't presume to know what it is that's behind it. You know, is it the law of attraction? Is it your angel's ancestors and guides? Is it… I don't know. I don't know what it is.
Casey Herdt: But all I know is that it helps me ask myself better questions, it helps me think outside the box.
Casey Herdt: It helps me to check myself when I need it.
Casey Herdt: And it also provides reinsurance when I need it, too.
Casey Herdt: And so I don't know if I answered your question, but that's what it feels like to me, but I don't know what, quote-unquote, it is.
Stephen Skorski: Well, so…
Casey Herdt: Not sure.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, well, I mean, I think there's a fundamental kind of assumption there, that there's an it. Right. Is that a fair assessment? Like, you know, you're not sure what it is, but it is there. There's something outside of you, and outside of the deck.
Stephen Skorski: That is… Influencing what's happening.
Casey Herdt: Yeah, maybe. I mean, I'm honestly very open-minded about that. I'm very… it could be that, and in equal measure, it could just be that
Casey Herdt: You know, it could be my subconscious.
Casey Herdt: You know, it could be a completely internalized system.
Casey Herdt: That doesn't have to do with an it out there, but an it inside of me.
Stephen Skorski: Mmm.
Casey Herdt: And so, I feel like however we can tap into it, whether we need it on the inside or it on the outside, you know, who am I to judge?
Casey Herdt: Alright, interesting information, let's see what we can do with it, you know? Let's see where we can go with this.
Stephen Skorski: Well, it's interesting, to me, because…
Stephen Skorski: on one hand, I think it is… I mean, on one hand, I think, absolutely, you could just say, well, this is a purely, just a psychological tool, you know, put it… put it… put it in the… in the room with the other tools that we have. Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: But then, there is this other way of looking at it, where, no, it's not like those other tools, there is something outside of it.
Stephen Skorski: that's, you know, kind of working itself into the equation. So it sounds like…
Stephen Skorski: You're saying it doesn't matter.
Stephen Skorski: Is that right? Like, you know, you're saying, like, yeah, could be one, could be the other, but from your perspective, nobody needs to answer that question
Stephen Skorski: To use the cards.
Casey Herdt: Correct.
Stephen Skorski: Okay.
Casey Herdt: Correct, yeah, I feel like using the… I really feel that Pulling cards.
Casey Herdt: you know, is…
Casey Herdt: it feels… it feels like… it feels ancient to me, in a lot of ways. It feels very ancient to me.
Casey Herdt: And because, you know, humans have questioned their existence and humanity forever, so however we… you know, whether it's pulling cards, doing runes, right? Casting bones, you know, doing dominoes, whatever it is.
Casey Herdt: You know, humans have been trying to read the fates, read the symbols, and
Casey Herdt: So, I feel like I'm participating in something that is…
Casey Herdt: human and ancient, but also, yeah, like you said, it could be from something out there, and it… I'm not… yeah, I'm not sure it matters.
Casey Herdt: Unless it matters to you. You know, that's just for me. But if it matters to someone that there's an it outside of
Casey Herdt: it, you know, in influencing the cards, then that's great! You know, I'm all for believing in what you believe in, type of thing.
Casey Herdt: I… I just tend to like to be, for myself, neutral.
Casey Herdt: In that way.
Stephen Skorski: Okay. Yeah, no, I mean, it's… I mean, it's always a question that I have, you know, and I'd love to hear what other…
Stephen Skorski: people's… I mean, I have my own opinion, you know.
Casey Herdt: Hmm…
Stephen Skorski: But I think it's, it's, it's great, it's just great to hear what other people think, you know?
Stephen Skorski: Because I, I, yeah, anyway, so…
Stephen Skorski: The way you talk about the… your experience with tarot, the… the deck.
Stephen Skorski: You know, maybe even these other Oracle, kind of, devices, Are they friends?
Casey Herdt: Yeah, I mean, it's so interesting, because I have, like, my drawers pulled out so I can see all of my decks right now, or at least the ones that are in my office.
Casey Herdt: Which, I'm looking, kind of, like, at about… I would say about 60 decks that are just in here. And… you know, they're… they're like friends, but they're also a little bit like a time capsule.
Casey Herdt: So I'm like, oh, yeah, I got that deck when I was going through XYZ, and I really wanted a deck that kind of, you know, spoke to these types of themes, or like, oh, I was really in my sacred, feminine
Casey Herdt: moment, so there's a goddess deck, or, oh, you know, I was in, like, I'm looking at a deck right now, I was in a Paris flea market, and I found all of these old, you know, vintage antique decks, and I got a few of them, you know? And so they're friends…
Casey Herdt: they're, a part of my habitat, you know? Like, I do feel like…
Casey Herdt: they have a consciousness in the way that, like, somebody made these. Somebody took their time and…
Casey Herdt: Made the symbols, and wrote the book, and came up with the ways. Like, they're… they're just…
Casey Herdt: Yeah, they're… they're, like… This choose-your-own-adventure…
Casey Herdt: Lovely mix of words and symbols that…
Casey Herdt: feel, I don't know, deeply comforting, and, inspiring, and sometimes frustrating.
Stephen Skorski: Right.
Casey Herdt: Oh, yes, they're much like friends, or maybe even family. Let's put… maybe it's family.
Stephen Skorski: Oh, that's… yeah, that's interesting. Well, I mean, what a great… what a great way to interact with these things that you have, right? To think of… to think of them as friends and family.
Casey Herdt: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: So, okay, so you mentioned, so just generally, how many decks do you think you have?
Casey Herdt: I think I have probably right around 75.
Stephen Skorski: Okay, wow.
Casey Herdt: I'm like, oh my gosh, I can't believe that. But I can believe it, because I have them. They're here.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, man.
Casey Herdt: them across the world.
Casey Herdt: Well…
Stephen Skorski: You can never have… you can never have enough friends, right? I mean…
Casey Herdt: True, this is very true.
Stephen Skorski: So, so then do you… Consider yourself a collector?
Stephen Skorski: Or, you know, when you look at them, right, is it collecting? Is it, no, I'm a practitioner? You know, like, what is it? What label might you put on yourself?
Casey Herdt: I love that. I'm definitely a practitioner. I mean, I feel that, I am that. I use these in my work all the time, I use them on myself all the time.
Casey Herdt: You know, I never thought of them as a collection, I'm not even kidding, until Katie mentioned this podcast. She's like, you collect her? And I was like, I never thought of it that way. It never occurred to me that I was collecting them.
Casey Herdt: it was just like, oh, here, you know, here's the set of tools. I never thought of them as a whole. I thought of them as each one, like a… like a toolbox, right? You open up, you're like, I need this screwdriver for this thing. That's how I thought of them, kind of in a singular sense.
Casey Herdt: But now that it has been brought to my attention that this is also a collection,
Casey Herdt: Yeah, it's kind of fun. I kind of feel… I feel great about that. I feel like, oh, this is a cool thing to collect. If I'm gonna collect things, this feels great. It's not like, you know, soda cans in my backyard. It's like…
Casey Herdt: tarot cards that are neatly organized in some areas, and yeah, I go to them often!
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, no, that's awesome. I love that you are happy with that, that observation, you know, that a friend made, and then you're like, oh yeah, okay, yeah, because, okay, so what then does the word collector…
Stephen Skorski: Mean to you? Or, you know, when you hear the word collector, what do you think about?
Casey Herdt: Okay, this is a great question. Okay, so when I hear collector, I immediately… my brain goes to Antiques Roadshow.
Stephen Skorski: Hmm.
Casey Herdt: for whatever reason, that is, like, my free association, like, if it's like, oh, I'm a collector, I'd be like, oh, they'd probably go to Antiques Roadshow.
Casey Herdt: And, like, they're collecting antique Civil War…
Casey Herdt: pottery jugs, you know? Like, I don't know. Like, that's what I think of that. Right. You know? Or, like, or, like, the grandmas with all the spoons, you know, in the cabinet, or the thimbles, you know? Like, I think of that as a collection.
Casey Herdt: So yeah, so I just… I think that's also… it's…
Casey Herdt: It feels like this, like, quintessential, like.
Casey Herdt: I don't know if it's, like, folk arts… bend…
Casey Herdt: And then… or, like, people that… like, my husband collects coins. Oh, he is… Crazy with coins. Plex.
Stephen Skorski: Really?
Casey Herdt: Coins from all over, yes.
Stephen Skorski: Cool.
Casey Herdt: And, yeah. And so, you know, I… I just… yeah, I just never associated my own collectorship.
Casey Herdt: with that, and I would be like, oh, but this is, like, curated, which is just a snobby word for collecting.
Casey Herdt: you know, this is my curation, which is, like I said, It's not be weird.
Stephen Skorski: Are those… are those really the same thing?
Casey Herdt: I don't know. Honestly, I don't know.
Casey Herdt: I don't know, curating or collecting? I don't know, because I just never thought about collecting before.
Stephen Skorski: Right, right.
Casey Herdt: Yeah, because whenever, you know, I guess that's the other thing…
Casey Herdt: when I think of a collection, I think of fashion, right? That's there, too, like.
Stephen Skorski: Oh, right.
Casey Herdt: The designer rolls out a collection.
Casey Herdt: or you go to the Louvre, and you see the Egyptian collection.
Stephen Skorski: Mmm.
Casey Herdt: a museum. So, yeah.
Stephen Skorski: Okay.
Stephen Skorski: So, so, so now that you have this, this, word in your head…
Stephen Skorski: And then someone who's very close to you, meaning your husband, has this collection that you have recognized as a collection for, you know, presumably a fair amount of time. Do you see any similarities?
Casey Herdt: I… C… Oh, that's a great… Question.
Casey Herdt: I don't know if I see similarities, I maybe see differences, but that might not be so fair on his behalf.
Casey Herdt: So… here's the differences that I see. Like, his coins are put away, and…
Casey Herdt: like, they're in a box, and, you know, they're, like, stowed away in a box. Like, for me.
Casey Herdt: I'm always in my car.
Casey Herdt: So they feel like, like I was using a plate, or a cup, or a bowl, you know what I mean?
Stephen Skorski: It's like…
Casey Herdt: It feels that utilitarian.
Stephen Skorski: Okay.
Casey Herdt: And so maybe I think collections mean that they're, like, put away, and you don't touch them, or something. You don't interact with them regularly.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah. Yeah, that, you know, that's interesting. I keep, that, that's a common…
Stephen Skorski: theme that keeps coming up, or a common question, you know, this idea of utility.
Casey Herdt: Does…
Stephen Skorski: You know, if something has utility.
Stephen Skorski: is it not a collection? You know, is it… Right. Which is… which is fascinating, because I actually, before I started having these conversations, I never really thought about it that way. What do you… what do you… so what do you think about that?
Casey Herdt: Oh, I think that…
Casey Herdt: I absolutely… I mean, now that we're talking about it, this is 100% a collection that
Casey Herdt: I… it is a collection. It is…
Casey Herdt: Even though I use it, and I just don't think utility has anything to do with it. Now that we're sitting here talking about it, it's like, no, that's what it is. I have a makeup collection, I have a tarot card collection, my husband collects, you know,
Casey Herdt: Coins and stamps.
Casey Herdt: And, old toys, you know, and it's all… it's all the same.
Casey Herdt: I just wonder if…
Casey Herdt: Here's my question. The people that use their collections, do they all consider them collections, or not?
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, I don't… well, I don't… well, people definitely don't… not all people use their collection, right? Right. Not in the way that, you know, you're… not in the way you're saying these things are tools for you.
Casey Herdt: Right.
Stephen Skorski: So I think that's… that stands out to me, but what I'm… what's very interesting is you've described
Stephen Skorski: these things as, like, family. So I wonder…
Stephen Skorski: You know, does your husband think of these coins as family?
Casey Herdt: No, he thinks of them as an investment.
Stephen Skorski: Okay.
Casey Herdt: You know, but it is something he started to do… With his grandfather as a…
Casey Herdt: tiny child, like a 3-year-old. His grandfather taught him to go up to people and say, hi, my name is Ruben. I collect coins. Do you have any interesting coins you'd like to share with me?
Stephen Skorski: Hmm.
Casey Herdt: So, there's a family element to it, I think that's what started it, but he definitely looks at his coin collections as an investment, 100%.
Casey Herdt: Where I do not look at my tarot cards as an investment.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah. Yeah, I think that that's another, you know, conversation for a different collector, but that, you know, I could make the argument that
Stephen Skorski: if someone is doing something for investment purposes, it's not… it's no longer a collection, you know what I mean?
Casey Herdt: Mmm.
Stephen Skorski: It's like, if I have 100 shares of Apple, do I, you know, or 100 shares of
Stephen Skorski: NVIDIA, you know, is that my.
Casey Herdt: Right.
Stephen Skorski: of, you know, I don't.
Casey Herdt: Right. Anymore.
Casey Herdt: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah.
Casey Herdt: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: Okay, so, so, so you talked about your relationship with these, you know, things, and…
Stephen Skorski: You know, tarot is so interesting because…
Stephen Skorski: there is no one meaning, right? Things are not fixed. Everything is open to interpretation. And then you also talked about, you know, at least initially, using it to bring some clarity and soothe
Stephen Skorski: anxieties… so that's interesting, that's something that is… Doesn't have a fixed meaning.
Stephen Skorski: can bring about some stability. So I do… I do wonder, what do you… what do you think about that? Like, what… what forces are at work that's making that happen?
Casey Herdt: Mmm, yeah. I would say the strongest force that's at work, especially in the kind of, you know, regulating the nervous system, is the force of repetition.
Casey Herdt: I think that there is something inherently soothing about…
Casey Herdt: Sitting down in a quiet space.
Casey Herdt: Usually I have a cup of tea or a cup of coffee.
Casey Herdt: picking the card deck, thinking about my question, picking the deck that I want to use, Opening it up.
Casey Herdt: Shuffling the cards is so soothing. It's so tactile.
Casey Herdt: Listening to what… That sound is…
Casey Herdt: And then that feeling of flipping over the cards, like, that repetition of that, because I pull cards every day for myself.
Casey Herdt: And, that… ritual.
Casey Herdt: is so stabilizing.
Casey Herdt: me slow down. It slows down my brain.
Casey Herdt: It slows down my breathing.
Casey Herdt: You know, it slows down just my expectations.
Casey Herdt: It…
Casey Herdt: just the actual physicality of pulling cards, because I've been doing it for so many years, it's like this automatic reset. Even if I weren't to…
Casey Herdt: look into… even if I weren't to flip them over and see what each card is, just doing that is helpful.
Casey Herdt: And so, you add on top of that…
Casey Herdt: So that's, like, the stability that, you know, my DHD brain really needs, and then the novelty paired with that, which is, I don't know what card is going to be flipped.
Casey Herdt: I don't know… how I'm gonna read into it yet.
Casey Herdt: I… I… you know, there's so many… these cards are multifaceted, they're archetypal, they're symbolic.
Casey Herdt: So at different times in my life, I can… and with different questions, I can pull the same card, and they can mean something else, and that's just enough novelty for my ADHD brain.
Casey Herdt: To be interested, and to be inspired.
Casey Herdt: And to release all of those feel-good chemicals that
Casey Herdt: I believe, you know, this ritual does.
Casey Herdt: And so, it's this beautiful blend of
Casey Herdt: Repetition and rhythm, and then complete novelty and unexpectedness.
Casey Herdt: That is just the kind of… the right cocktail for my brain.
Casey Herdt: That's really helpful, and just lovely to do.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, that is… Hadn't thought about it that way.
Stephen Skorski: the ritual… It's actually a really neat.
Stephen Skorski: Little package to kind of, you know, say there's a… there's the ritual element, and that equals the stability.
Stephen Skorski: And then, you know, your word, novelty.
Stephen Skorski: You know, but the unknown…
Stephen Skorski: comes from, then, you know, sort of the final act of this thing.
Stephen Skorski: That, yeah, no, that's actually really, really fascinating.
Stephen Skorski: Tell us a little bit more about your space that you read in. So, when you talked about… once you started talking about
Stephen Skorski: shuffling the cards, I felt like we got the full, kind of, technicolor description of what you were feeling, but prior to that, I'm not sure that I felt that way. So, if you wouldn't mind, maybe tell us about your space.
Stephen Skorski: But tell us about, like, even, you know, coming into your space. Like, what are you… are you preparing yourself to kind of go into that space? Are you…
Stephen Skorski: you know, does something change when you cross the threshold into that space? What does the space look like? How do you have it, you know, decorated? Tell, you know, try to, if you wouldn't mind, add a little bit of depth to what you just briefly described, including the tea, and the smells, and the… just kind of the whole… because, you know, you said something earlier, or as you were describing this.
Stephen Skorski: it's clear the way you are practicing, it's very multi-sensory, and so I would… I guess I want to get a clearer picture of that for you.
Casey Herdt: Okay, awesome. So… so, when I read for myself, it's…
Casey Herdt: always in the same place. And when I read for others, it's in a different place, and that's very important to me, to have it be separate.
Casey Herdt: Because I think as a practitioner, to have your own privacy and private space is very important.
Casey Herdt: So, my private card-pulling ritual happens in the morning. I often get up very early before the sun comes up, which I love, and I…
Casey Herdt: make my cup of coffee, and I sit in a chair that's positioned right in front of this beautiful adobe hearth.
Casey Herdt: That I have, and depending on what time of year it is, either the fire is on, or there are twinkle lights inside of it.
Casey Herdt: And I keep the light very, very dim.
Casey Herdt: And it's totally quiet in my house.
Casey Herdt: And it's just the light from the hearth.
Casey Herdt: And so, over my steaming cup of coffee.
Casey Herdt: I take the deck that I'm working with at that time, and sometimes, it changes.
Casey Herdt: Depending, but usually I work with a duck For a number of months.
Casey Herdt: Before I change it.
Casey Herdt: And I sit on my leather couch.
Casey Herdt: I usually pull a nice blanket around me, because it's a little cold in the desert in the mornings.
Casey Herdt: And… I think about my day.
Casey Herdt: I think about, you know, what did I wake up thinking about? And as a way to clear my mind.
Casey Herdt: I kind of… I kind of rehearse through.
Casey Herdt: what is… what is it that I'm thinking? What did I go to bed thinking about? What did I wake up thinking about? And usually that's a pretty good indicator that that's what I'm gonna pull cards on.
Casey Herdt: And so, I'll… Take out my card deck.
Casey Herdt: put them in my hands, I usually take a moment.
Casey Herdt: to just hold the cards close to my heart, take a few breaths. I do kind of do a… I mean, if you could call it a prayer, it's more of a…
Casey Herdt: meditation,
Casey Herdt: to ground my energy, to relax into my body, and then I start shuffling the cards, and depending on what I've been thinking about, I'll ask a question and start with that first card.
Casey Herdt: And I really do like to use the guidebooks.
Casey Herdt: When I'm reading for myself.
Casey Herdt: Because I… I want to see inside the guidebook, like, what word sparkles? What sentence catches my eye?
Casey Herdt: Like, what in this writing
Casey Herdt: is maybe even associated to a symbol on the card that, like, my eye is drawn to. It's, like, really about, like, what am I magnetizing towards? What do I feel pulled towards?
Casey Herdt: And, I'll take that information and usually ask another question, and so I usually do about…
Casey Herdt: On average, 3 questions.
Casey Herdt: And…
Casey Herdt: I just use that as contemplative time. And I look at the art on its own, see how the cards could almost create a sentence. You know, it's fun to look at the cards one at a time, but it's also fun to say, like, well, if this was a complete sentence, beginning, middle, and end, what would it be saying to me?
Stephen Skorski: Hmm.
Casey Herdt: And, so I just really allow that time
Casey Herdt: In the early morning, to just let myself riff in this way with myself.
Casey Herdt: To create an internal conversation. To…
Casey Herdt: Maybe write down a few notes?
Casey Herdt: about… the answer… I mean, to call them answers, it's like the kind of…
Casey Herdt: the rabbit holes it's taking me on, or if it made me think of something else, and I know that I want to get on my computer later and look it up, I'll take a few notes. But I really try to keep it…
Casey Herdt: you know, analog at that moment, not go into, oh, what does that mean? Or, oh, let me look that up, which I can easily do. And it's just me and the cars.
Casey Herdt: And I really try to sit there until I feel
Casey Herdt: like, complete, resolved. Not resolved in, like, oh, all of my questions are answered, and I know who I am and what I'm doing in the world forever. It's not that, it's like, okay, I got…
Casey Herdt: some information here. This is, you know, I'm gonna chew on that. I'm gonna work with that. I'm gonna see how that fits into the whole
Casey Herdt: So that's… You know, it probably takes all of…
Casey Herdt: 20 to 30 minutes, that whole little bubble in the morning?
Casey Herdt: But it feels so good, because I am a practitioner, to just tend to myself first.
Casey Herdt: To allow my questions to be the first ones that I wake up with fresh energy towards.
Casey Herdt: That feels like a level of, like, self-care that's very important to me when I'm doing so much helping
Casey Herdt: others. So it's a core pillar of how I stay connected to myself and current with myself.
Stephen Skorski: Great! Well, I mean, that… yeah, that's… I mean, it's, it's lovely to hear, you know, sort of what that morning ritual is, how these… how these things fit into your life outside of your professional existence. Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, no, that's great. I appreciate the… I appreciate the window into… into that… that part of your… your, you know, your day, your existence,
Stephen Skorski: So I do want to hear about the decks themselves, and also reading for other people, but before we do that, I started something… I have a friend who,
Stephen Skorski: He collects movies, and so I thought it would be fun with him to do these little intermissions. And then it was… it was so much fun, I thought, well, I'm gonna do this with other people, too. So, I'm gonna do a little intermission. These are… these are rapid fire, right? Kind of just…
Casey Herdt: Okay.
Stephen Skorski: Top of your head, no right answer, just… what do you think? The Fool or the magician?
Casey Herdt: magician.
Stephen Skorski: Okay, the Lovers or the Hermit?
Casey Herdt: Oh, the hermit.
Casey Herdt: Death?
Stephen Skorski: Death or the Tower?
Casey Herdt: I love both! Oh, you're making me… oh, choose between.
Stephen Skorski: Choose your friend. Choose your friend.
Casey Herdt: Death.
Stephen Skorski: Alright, the star or the moon?
Casey Herdt: the star.
Stephen Skorski: Justice or judgment?
Casey Herdt: Justice.
Stephen Skorski: Two more, the Empress or the High Priestess?
Casey Herdt: Oh, Empress.
Stephen Skorski: Last one, strength or the devil?
Casey Herdt: These are so good.
Casey Herdt: Oh, there's… that's hard! Oh… I'm going with… the devil.
Casey Herdt: I would have answered that differently as a younger person, the devil.
Stephen Skorski: Fantastic. Okay, so now… That was so fun!
Casey Herdt: fun!
Stephen Skorski: Well, we'll do a few more of those. I just… I do love to kind of pop them in every once in a while.
Stephen Skorski: So, so, about your decks.
Stephen Skorski: So, I'm assuming… or I don't want to assume anything, but tell me…
Stephen Skorski: Do your decks have individual personalities?
Stephen Skorski: Or… is it like, no, no.
Stephen Skorski: you know, do they have different personalities? Like, your friends have personalities, and so when you reach for a specific deck, it's like, well, I need to almost, like, engage with so-and-so because they're light and fun, as opposed to, you know, a different day, you might speak with someone who's more introspective and, you know, kind of intense, or…
Stephen Skorski: is it like looking in a toolbox, and you say, well, no, I need the Phillips head screwdriver as opposed to the wrench.
Casey Herdt: It's definitely, like, friends. It's, yeah, it's absolutely, like, okay.
Casey Herdt: the situations going on in my life, or this person's life, you know, do they… and are these… is this the type of person that needs a little cream and sugar with their coffee? I'm gonna go with these ducks, and if somebody's like, no, I wanna go all in, I wanna, you know, give me the tough love, I'm like, alright! You want the hammer? We're bringing the hammer, type of thing. So it's absolutely, like, their little personalities.
Casey Herdt: Because they are! They were created by a personality, you know? And so they have them.
Casey Herdt: They absolutely have them, and I love to choose them. Now, I have a few consistent decks that I really lean into, but on the whole.
Stephen Skorski: And what are those, if you don't mind me asking?
Casey Herdt: Yeah, so for reading for other people, I'm really… have used for probably, oh gosh, 8 or 8 years, the Archetypes deck by Kim Kranz, and that is an Oracle deck.
Casey Herdt: And she has, like, the Wild Unknown series, and Archetypes deck I use.
Casey Herdt: Probably more than any other when I'm reading for other people.
Casey Herdt: And then for myself, I have… I don't… love…
Casey Herdt: tarot. All the time. I will say that. I'm more of an Oracle card deck gal.
Casey Herdt: But…
Casey Herdt: there is this tarot card deck that I got that I am so obsessed with. It's the Caco Y Pepe tarot card deck.
Casey Herdt: It is… fabulous. And I have just been in this, like, non-stop love affair with it.
Casey Herdt: For the last 6 months, and it's the perfect blend between what I love about tarot and what I love about Oracle card decks. It's like this…
Casey Herdt: And it's so, like, real life. Each card of the tarot is… has something to do with food.
Casey Herdt: So… For example, I'm looking at,
Casey Herdt: the judgment card, and it's salt and pepper. Like, you know, it's… it's so interesting, and the writing that these gals did, like, the… the king of swords is stake.
Casey Herdt: And it's so weird, it's avant-garde.
Casey Herdt: But what they write about is so fabulous, I just love it. It's quirky, it's cool, and it's well-written.
Casey Herdt: So… Highly recommend, highly recommend Caccio y Pepe Tarot.
Casey Herdt: And I'm a foodie, so it's just like, you know, like, there are just some decks where I'm like, oh my gosh, this is everything I love about the world!
Casey Herdt: And that's one of them.
Stephen Skorski: Okay, alright, so… Explain the difference, as you understand it, between tarot decks and oracle decks.
Casey Herdt: So, the difference, as I understand it, is that the… well, depending on what
Casey Herdt: tarot deck, like, there's, like, the Rider-Waite tarot deck, there's the Toth tarot decks, there's the Egyptian tarot, the Marseille tarot decks, so those are… have, like, a standardized,
Casey Herdt: set of symbols and cards that have numbers, that have the, you know, major arcana and the minor arcana, and so…
Casey Herdt: Although some artists, you know, bring their own artistry.
Casey Herdt: to those decks, it's a standardized deck, just much like a regular deck of cards that you would play blackjack with. And that's wonderful. Again, that's one of those, like, repetition ritual things. It's like…
Casey Herdt: you never know what you're gonna pull, but you know it's gonna be the major and minor arcana. It's gonna be in there, right? The archetypes, and then… and then, you know, the cups, and the wands, and the pentacles, and the swords. So…
Casey Herdt: And so, I like tarot for that, for sure.
Casey Herdt: but I really like Oracle decks, and I think it's because it is…
Casey Herdt: All from the personality of the person writing it.
Casey Herdt: It has less of that structure. Some of them do have a structure, but it's a kind of a radical creation of the artist's mind.
Casey Herdt: And I find… that, for me, the Oracle card decks have been kind of that, like.
Casey Herdt: That clutch friend in that specific way.
Casey Herdt: that has been really helpful for me, like, it's niche. It's niche. That's the word I'm looking for. Where tarot, for me is a little bit, like, more universal and structured.
Casey Herdt: And again, there's a time for that. But sometimes I like a really weird niche deck.
Casey Herdt: to just break out of my mental rigidity and routines, because I can be the type of person that, like, when I'm pulling, you know, cards, and it's like, okay, there's the tower, or there, you know, it's like, I can sometimes get in a rut of reading it one way.
Casey Herdt: And so, when I go to these Oracle decks.
Casey Herdt: they don't have that. They don't have… I don't come in with as many assumptions.
Casey Herdt: Or as many expectations, or whatnot, and I can…
Casey Herdt: yeah, it breaks up my mental rigidity, and I also learn from the Oracle decks about tarot, too. It's like, oh, well, this is talking about, you know, it's a similar symbolism, but they're talking about it in a different way, so it kind of…
Casey Herdt: Adds to my mental library?
Casey Herdt: of possible interpretations of a standardized Rider-Waite deck.
Casey Herdt: And I like that. I like.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah.
Casey Herdt: getting some freshness in there. For me, that's an important part of the process, so I don't get too rigid, which is something that, just for me, I have to watch out for.
Stephen Skorski: Okay, yeah, I mean, know yourself, right? That's.
Stephen Skorski: helpful. No, I mean, perspective, I mean, I would agree, you said this really early in the conversation, but the idea that
Stephen Skorski: Tarot or oracle decks helps to give you…
Stephen Skorski: A shift in perspective, and whether you…
Stephen Skorski: Kind of absorb that, or use that as a…
Stephen Skorski: different personal perspective, or a perspective of an outsider? I mean, you know, irrelevant, really, but it's a different perspective. And so that's really, you know, it's interesting to hear that.
Stephen Skorski: That's something that you relate to…
Stephen Skorski: In a single deck, but also, you know, as a collection.
Stephen Skorski: So it sounds like something important to you, right? And then to hear you make that comment right there says, oh, okay, right? I'm starting to see a very, interesting chain, you know, kind of being formed there.
Stephen Skorski: So I did something fun, actually, along those lines. In preparation of this episode, I did a few, like, one-card pulls.
Stephen Skorski: And you can tell me what you think.
Stephen Skorski: And I just, I just used the Ryder, weight deck. Okay. And so the first one…
Stephen Skorski: I was sort of asking the question, what do I need to learn from this episode?
Stephen Skorski: And I pulled the Justice card.
Stephen Skorski: inside up.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: So what do you think? I had a feel… I had a feeling about it, but what do you… any, don't want to put you on the spot.
Casey Herdt: No, that's okay! That's okay. I think… I think that's indicating exactly what we were just talking about. It's like…
Casey Herdt: I think that…
Casey Herdt: Well, well, now it's coming in as something a little bit different, but, doing… I mean, I keep hearing doing the cards justice. Like, doing justice to this cool thing that people could…
Casey Herdt: Possibly be very uncomfortable about, and having, like, a really great…
Casey Herdt: philosophical, intellectual, slightly mystical conversation that, like, does the decks justice. That's what's coming in right now, and I kind of love that, because I think that, you know, through… I mean, throughout…
Casey Herdt: the ages, people that have pulled cards have not always been looked that kindly upon. It's not, it's not always the thing, right? I mean, in certain times, you could be imprisoned or killed for it, or put in an insane asylum. I mean, there's all of that, but
Casey Herdt: doing them their justice, you know? Like, talking about them in a way that's
Casey Herdt: very much intellectual as well as, you know, intuitive or magical. I think it does do it justice. It balances things. It's a… and it creates balance for people as well.
Casey Herdt: It does do that, at least.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah. No, I love it. I mean, that was sort of what,
Stephen Skorski: And you said something, I don't know what you said in the last, you know, I forget at this point, 3 or 4 minutes, but there was something you said that triggered me to, like, pull this up, because I wasn't even sure that I was going to talk about it. But it did have something to do with, you know, this justice card,
Stephen Skorski: and the clarity… You know, that sort of implied…
Stephen Skorski: But the evenness, the balance, you know, kind of holding, you know, curiosity and even skepticism, you know, holding those things evenly. So as you're saying, like, do justice to the cards. Okay, that's good. That's great.
Stephen Skorski: You know, I just thought that would be kind of fun. I did a few others. Yeah, I did a few others, and if it comes up, you know, if it makes sense to talk about later, I will. Awesome.
Casey Herdt: Awesome! Great.
Stephen Skorski: So let's do one more of these intermissions while we did take this little break here. This is short, I think there's, like, 6 in this kind of category that I made.
Stephen Skorski: Fate or free will?
Casey Herdt: Free will.
Stephen Skorski: Intuition or analysis?
Casey Herdt: Oh, gosh…
Casey Herdt: Mmm… You're real… this one's hard.
Stephen Skorski: Just what floats to the surface? What's… Oh, analysis.
Casey Herdt: Analysis.
Stephen Skorski: Interesting, okay.
Stephen Skorski: Ritual or spontaneity.
Casey Herdt: Oh, ritual. Ritual. Ritual. Okay.
Stephen Skorski: Predictive readings or reflective readings?
Casey Herdt: Reflective. Reflective. 100%.
Stephen Skorski: Reading for yourself, or reading for others?
Casey Herdt: Ugh.
Casey Herdt: This is so hard! Reading for myself. I mean, it's what I've done most of, reading for myself.
Stephen Skorski: Okay, one card pull.
Stephen Skorski: Or Celtic Cross.
Casey Herdt: one card.
Stephen Skorski: Alright.
Stephen Skorski: Just straight away.
Stephen Skorski: Get to the heart of the matter.
Casey Herdt: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, Celtic Cross is great, too. I mean, there's definitely a time for that.
Casey Herdt: But yeah, if I really had to choose one card.
Stephen Skorski: Okay, great. Okay, so, so, when we're talking about now reading for other people.
Stephen Skorski: Where do you think the meaning…
Stephen Skorski: comes from. Is it the cards? Is it the person?
Stephen Skorski: Is it the reader?
Stephen Skorski: Is it… you know what I mean? You know, can any one of those elements be… Maybe not as…
Stephen Skorski: Strong's not quite… maybe less invested than the other, or… you know, is there a hierarchy there?
Casey Herdt: Oof.
Casey Herdt: Okay, this is… let me really think about this. So… I feel like the information comes… from… the reader…
Casey Herdt: being…
Casey Herdt: Watching and being a very good student.
Casey Herdt: Of who they're reading.
Casey Herdt: And so… being a very good observer. That's… that's…
Casey Herdt: Where it comes in. And the discourse that happens…
Casey Herdt: And the conversations that emerge from when a really good reader sets a very solid space
Casey Herdt: For the person being read to feel safe, to unburden, to talk about their life.
Casey Herdt: That's what makes a really rich reading, and makes the cards really… Sing.
Stephen Skorski: Is when…
Casey Herdt: The person being read feels comfortable, feels attended to.
Casey Herdt: Feels listened to, feels honored, feels respected. And the… the…
Casey Herdt: The person doing the reading creates that space, that magic.
Casey Herdt: that can happen, and those really pivotal conversations that can emerge from talking about the cards. It's like, the cards are a great starting point, but that trusted discourse…
Casey Herdt: Between the card reader and the person being read is, like, everything, in my opinion.
Stephen Skorski: So when you…
Casey Herdt: experience.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, no, that's… this is great. So…
Stephen Skorski: This is probably just a quick question.
Stephen Skorski: if we were to try to… if you were… if you were to read my cards right now.
Stephen Skorski: would it be… Very difficult, because you can't see me.
Casey Herdt: It is harder, I'm not gonna lie. It is harder for me because I am such a visual person.
Casey Herdt: And I'm not just reading the cards, I'm reading the person.
Stephen Skorski: Okay.
Casey Herdt: And, yeah,
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, no, that's great. That's great, great, great information. So, when you do read for somebody else, is this… I mean, it sounds like you really think of it more as a conversation.
Stephen Skorski: rather than, you know, a lecture or a sermon, you know, like, okay, ask me the question, and now I'm gonna kind of tell you what I'm, you know, what I'm understanding from this reading. It sounds like…
Stephen Skorski: in your readings, there's a lot of, kind of, going back and forth. Is that… is that correct?
Casey Herdt: Absolutely, and we craft…
Casey Herdt: the questions that we're even asking together. So, usually with clients, you know, I'll say, okay, so what's going on? Tell me a little bit about what you're wanting to, like, look at some groups.
Casey Herdt: around…
Casey Herdt: And so they'll, you know, we'll have a conversation. I said, okay, now it's time to pull… you know, and that conversation can be 15 or 20 minutes… Yeah. Of them unburdening, talking about it, you know, us going back and forth. I might have some, like, little intuitive hits that I'll say, oh, I'm getting a little bit of information about this or that, or…
Casey Herdt: Free association, however you want to think about, you know, intuition. And…
Casey Herdt: Then, it's okay, let's craft some questions that we wanna…
Casey Herdt: go to the cards about, and…
Casey Herdt: You know, I feel like the most important part of pulling cards is creating a really great question.
Casey Herdt: And because the ques… it's like that old saying, like, the medium is the message, like, sometimes…
Casey Herdt: Just knowing exactly what you're asking is, like, 90% of it.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, sure.
Casey Herdt: wow, that's actually what I'm… I've been trying to get at.
Casey Herdt: You know? And then, when the cards go, it just adds to it, and it is a conversation, and it's like…
Casey Herdt: And mostly, you know, for me personally as a card reader, this is not every card reader, but when we pull that card, and I talk about some of the more universal meanings of it, and watching how that person reacts to it is everything.
Casey Herdt: Because how typically they're reacting to what that is is part of the roots of the issue that they're coming to.
Casey Herdt: They're reading about.
Stephen Skorski: Hmm.
Stephen Skorski: Okay, that's it. So… As you are…
Stephen Skorski: And when you read, do you generally start sort of broad? You know, here's the symbolism on the card, here are some of the general meanings, and then, you know, kind of specifically related to your question, here's how these things might be interpreted.
Stephen Skorski: Is that… is that kind of the rhythm of the read, or is it, you know, solely dependent on the question? Where, depending on what was asked, you may not give any of that information, or you might give it in a completely different order?
Casey Herdt: Yeah, it depends on the person that I'm sitting with.
Casey Herdt: So, so say it's somebody that comes to me very often, and I already know something about their lives, and I know what they're working with, and we're working together very closely.
Casey Herdt: on some things.
Casey Herdt: then usually the… the card interpretations, I don't go as…
Casey Herdt: heavy into the universal symbolism, I'll kind of… I… I know… I can feel on an instinctual level where it's going towards. And so, like, what do you think about this, this, and that? This is saying, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, how does, you know, what do you think about that? How does that make you feel? What does that make you ask about?
Casey Herdt: how is that relating to this question for you and your experience? If I don't know the person as much, it will be more like, the symbol of this is that, and, you know, here are some key traits of this card, and…
Casey Herdt: And then some… and for some people, if they're really new at this.
Casey Herdt: I'll… even if they… if there's a guidebook, I'll say, okay, I'm gonna read you a few lines from this guidebook.
Casey Herdt: And I want you to close your eyes and listen, and tell me what words jumped out at you. So it's really about tapping in to
Casey Herdt: What they're magnetizing towards, what their subconscious is flagging.
Casey Herdt: And going from there. So I have a few different ways to read the cards once in a reading, depending on how much I know the person or don't.
Stephen Skorski: So
Stephen Skorski: Alright, so that takes me to, I think, what is, like, a very big, fundamental question. Do you believe that… and when I say tarot or oracle decks, right? Okay, yeah. That they…
Stephen Skorski: And this can be an AND or an OR.
Stephen Skorski: they predict, Do they reflect?
Stephen Skorski: Or do they reveal?
Stephen Skorski: So, for me, prediction, it implies future.
Stephen Skorski: reflecting… implies past.
Stephen Skorski: Reveal implies, kind of, present moment.
Stephen Skorski: Is, do you have a feeling as to, well, it can do all three, two of the three, one of the three.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah. What do you think?
Casey Herdt: I… yeah, great question. I feel that… I feel like it can do any of the three, but what I… where I feel like it's the strongest is revealing.
Stephen Skorski: Hmm, okay.
Casey Herdt: And I think that… It's in service?
Casey Herdt: the most, because I am more of a free will type of person.
Casey Herdt: I feel like that… that revelatory experience, whether you're…
Casey Herdt: revealing something new to yourself about yourself, or about your environment, about a situation, that… that is, deeply transformative for people, and can be. Deeply transformative for people.
Stephen Skorski: Is there… So there's, there's two, two things that I'm, that, that, that…
Stephen Skorski: brings up in my… in my brain. The way you're describing this, Seems very therapeutic.
Stephen Skorski: So, is that, you know, is the word therapy a word that's comfortable to you?
Stephen Skorski: Or is it kind of an uncomfortable…
Stephen Skorski: Feeling or area that you're, like, you don't really want to drift into.
Casey Herdt: Oh, no, I love the therapeutic aspect of everything. So, I'm a, you know, I've been a master pilates instructor in therapeutic and restoration for 22 years. I am a makeup artist that does reconstructive makeup for burn survivors and cancer patients and people with craniofacial afflictions, so I use a therapeutic way to do makeup, a therapeutic way to do
Casey Herdt: movement, and so the cards are no different. Like, absolutely therapeutic, and I… that is a wheelhouse I feel great.
Casey Herdt: being in.
Stephen Skorski: Cool. So if someone said, I have my, you know, cards or oracle deck read frequently, and I feel like it's therapy for me, you're… you feel good about that.
Casey Herdt: I do, I do. As long as everyone knows, like, I'm not a therapist, like…
Stephen Skorski: Right, no, no, no.
Casey Herdt: I like to be out there and be like, I'm not a therapist, but if that feels like therapy, restorative, you know, all of that, I think that's great, because that's how it feels to me. That's how these cards feel to me.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah. No, I mean, same to me. I mean, 100%. Yeah, no, no, it feels… I will say, and this is… I'll give you my kind of little insight, or…
Casey Herdt: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: insight into my brain, and then ask you the question. The one thing about tarot cards that actually does make me uncomfortable
Stephen Skorski: Now, I don't have an answer for it, but it's the idea that they can predict.
Casey Herdt: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: I don't… I've never been able to really…
Stephen Skorski: square the circle, or, you know, whatever the… Yeah. Where… I under… I absolutely, fully understand why they can reflect and reveal, but Predict has always felt a little bit…
Stephen Skorski: More hopeful than any.
Stephen Skorski: Now I can understand how it could guide, you know, maybe.
Casey Herdt: Yes.
Stephen Skorski: You know, you know, do something like that, but what is your, you know.
Stephen Skorski: What is your thought on this idea of prediction through DEX?
Casey Herdt: Yeah, I'm… I… I'm much like you. I… I don't necessarily…
Casey Herdt: I… yeah, yeah, that's not something that I harp on at all, like, it's not my thing.
Casey Herdt: It's… it's not my wheelhouse. I… but I do agree with you. Maybe it's, like, inspirational, like…
Casey Herdt: you know.
Casey Herdt: it can be inspirational. It's like, who's to know what plants that seed out there in the distance for someone to create a different future? Could it be an oracle deck… card deck, or a tarot card?
Stephen Skorski: Yeah.
Casey Herdt: Right? It's like, oh, I never thought I could do that.
Casey Herdt: But this deck made me believe in myself that I could.
Casey Herdt: And so, now I am. I think that happens, or… or let's say somebody comes to me, like… I'm gonna be honest, my least favorite read, and I actually turn people away from this all the time, they're like, I want to read about my love life. I'm like, I'm not your girl.
Casey Herdt: You know? Because, like, okay, we pull cards, and it's like, okay, okay, it says to break up with him, he's a loser, like, here it is. Right? And it's like.
Casey Herdt: you know, do they or don't they, and oh, this… it's like, who wants that type of responsibility? This is… I'm about empowering you to figure out who you are, and then you get to make the choices that you want, you know? And so, I just… yeah, I'm with you. I'm not a fan of it being looked at as a predictor of
Casey Herdt: the future. Now, have I had some interesting experiences with decks and other readers?
Casey Herdt: Yes, but do I think that's an exclusively tarot oracle card deck thing? Absolutely not. And,
Casey Herdt: you know, I think that, what is it, the Hippocratic Oath? Like, do no harm is really important. And when people are opening themselves up and talking about their deep stuff.
Casey Herdt: adding a prediction of future? I don't know. It seems like a little…
Casey Herdt: Yeah, not something I practice at all.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah. No, I mean, we're, yeah, right on the same page. I mean, so when you talk about it as…
Stephen Skorski: planting a seed? That makes a lot of sense to me. You know, in the sense that, you know, you plant the seed, and there's a hope, or…
Casey Herdt: Yep.
Stephen Skorski: maybe an expectation, but certainly I think hope feels a little bit better to me, that this thing will grow into something, and, you know, what exactly… you know, it's like, you plant the seed for the tree. You don't know… you might know what type of tree, but you're not… you don't really know exactly how big, you know, that kind of thing.
Casey Herdt: Right.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, that feels a lot better than… right, exactly what you're saying you avoid, which is, should I do this, or should I not do this? You know, tell me what my future looks like so I can decide whether, you know.
Stephen Skorski: This person is right for me, yeah.
Casey Herdt: Yeah, yeah.
Stephen Skorski: So, so you, so you will, you will turn someone, like, you'll just say, sorry, I'm just not…
Casey Herdt: Yeah. Yeah, okay. Oh, yeah. If I hear anything like, soulmate, Twin Flame.
Casey Herdt: you know, all… those key words, I'm like, I'm not your… I'm not your reader, because I'm always, like, relationship with yourself, relationship with yourself, because that's what you can do anything about.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely.
Casey Herdt: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: So along those lines, are there any other, you know, whether it's, I don't know, have you had experiences
Stephen Skorski: and I don't mean about the person, I guess, I'm really about you. You know, kind of uncomfortable readings, uncomfortable pulled cards, you know, moments where you go, oh, wow, that's not…
Casey Herdt: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, I mean, does… and if it's happened, how frequently does it happen to you?
Casey Herdt: Mmm. Yeah, so, you know, most of the cards
Casey Herdt: you know, most of the readings that I'm, like, okay, tread lately is, you know.
Casey Herdt: because again, I'm not just reading the cards, I'm reading the person. And if someone…
Casey Herdt: Comes in, and… and there is some…
Casey Herdt: any sort of trauma that hasn't been shared with me, it's none of my business.
Casey Herdt: And… You know, They come in for a reading.
Casey Herdt: And some cards, you know, they ask about something in their life, and, you know, certain cards come up, and it's like…
Casey Herdt: okay, I know, we're getting into some areas That could be potentially triggering.
Casey Herdt: you know, I will… use my, I guess, you know.
Casey Herdt: I will decide how I want to approach that.
Casey Herdt: Very tenderly, and with a lot of respect.
Casey Herdt: Because I don't think that it's, like, you know…
Casey Herdt: If they're not gonna tell me about those things, those cards don't need… I don't need to talk about those facets of it in the cards that I'm reading. How about that?
Stephen Skorski: Yeah.
Casey Herdt: Right? Because I'm not, like, a nosy reader, you know? And so, now, if…
Casey Herdt: you know, I'll get, like, theme adjacent.
Casey Herdt: And if they decide that they feel comfortable and want to talk about certain things, then that's fine. But if not, I'll give just enough information that they can, like, put in their pocket and think about on their own, and work on their own, privately.
Casey Herdt: Some things are meant to be private, you know?
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, no.
Casey Herdt: Even in a reading.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, that's… so that's interesting in the sense that you kind of take the information that they share up front.
Stephen Skorski: Move forward with that, have a conversation, But…
Stephen Skorski: not a nosy conversation. You know, like, take what's offered, and don't sort of dig,
Stephen Skorski: Especially when it feels… you know, again, you know, kind of this inter… we all…
Casey Herdt: or many of us, anyway, hopefully have some, some, intuition as to… Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: You know, especially, like you said, if you can see the person, and you can kind of see their body language, and their facial expressions, and, you know, okay, we're getting into uncomfortable territory. Okay, that's, yeah, no, that's really, really helpful.
Casey Herdt: And that's where I would, like, lean into reflection rather than revealing.
Stephen Skorski: Hmm.
Casey Herdt: Right? That's that subtlety. It's like, okay, no, we're just gonna use this as a little bit of reflection, not revealing anything that they don't want to reveal.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: So, this is… this is… and you do not have to answer this question. If you're just like, no, I don't… A, I've never even thought about it, or B, no, that's… so…
Stephen Skorski: you know, let's face it, when people start to talk about tarot cards, and oracle decks, and sort of any other, I don't know, occult…
Stephen Skorski: like divination, you know, sort of practice, process. You know, there is this implication that the person who's doing it has a level of…
Stephen Skorski: Understanding that others don't.
Stephen Skorski: And so, do you think of it that way?
Stephen Skorski: And if so… you know what I mean? Like, you know, I don't want to just come out and say, like, do you think you are, you know, like…
Casey Herdt: Yeah!
Stephen Skorski: I don't mean it so directly, or maybe I do. What do you think about that? Like, are you, you know, have you ever… maybe the better question is, have you ever questioned your ability to do this well?
Casey Herdt: Oh, all the time! I think it's very natural to question your ability to do anything well. I think you should question your ability to do anything, right? Like, I think that that's, like, a really important part of the self-discovery process.
Casey Herdt: And… Yeah, so… I question that, and if I find my…
Casey Herdt: when… I mean, it's not often anymore, because I've had so much experience, I'm really leaning into my breadth of experience working with clients for 23 years, and so, you know, patterns emerge, and I trust
Casey Herdt: pattern recognition, right? But, but as to the other, you know, kind of facets of what I think that you're kind of questioning about, like, intuition and, you know, psychic, you know.
Casey Herdt: I don't think I have a level of understanding that's more than others, but I do feel that…
Casey Herdt: I have, maybe some… Difference… perception mechanisms.
Casey Herdt: or some heightened perception mechanisms that maybe not everyone is tuning into. And, you know, I don't…
Casey Herdt: you know, the world views them as esoteric, but I think it's a part of our evolution and biology.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah.
Casey Herdt: You know, mirror neurons are a thing, you know? I've been a body worker for 23 years as well, so there's, like, we know there's energy exchange, I've had some pretty incredible things.
Casey Herdt: happen to me, you know, that's more esoteric, but I don't use that as, like, my shingle.
Casey Herdt: And I… Don't use the… you know, it's… it's almost like a…
Casey Herdt: my shingle is science and therapeutics and help, but sometimes I deliver with the intuition, you know? Things come through. Work with people long enough, patterns are there. And so,
Casey Herdt: So yeah, I, you know, and that has been a more tenuous thing for me to, you know, to come out and talk about, which I'm happy to do.
Casey Herdt: you know, it's like, people love that, and they want somebody who's a reader that's highly intuitive and, you know, has insight into other places that they might have blind spots. I think that's a natural human thing to want.
Casey Herdt: And also, I, I really… Don't want to mislead anyone.
Casey Herdt: or pretend like I have all the answers, because I certainly don't. I'm a human like everyone else, you know, warts and all.
Casey Herdt: And, yeah.
Casey Herdt: I don't know if that answered your question, but I'm hoping.
Stephen Skorski: No, it does.
Stephen Skorski: No, no, no, absolutely. Well, I mean, I think, I mean, I think the reason I asked it is.
Stephen Skorski: You know, I'm very leery…
Stephen Skorski: first of all, I wouldn't… I didn't open with this question right, because I didn't know you, right? So, it took, you know, 90 minutes to be like, well, I think I could probably ask that question, because I… I think I kind of know the answer, right? Yeah. Because I'm… let's face it, I mean, not face it, I am skeptical
Stephen Skorski: Of somebody who is, you know, selling the whole, kind of.
Stephen Skorski: stereotypical, I'm a seer, I'm, you know, like, I…
Casey Herdt: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: I am connected to the, you know, the unseen forces of the universe in ways that nobody else.
Casey Herdt: You know, it's like, okay.
Stephen Skorski: stop, you know, like, I'm, you know…
Stephen Skorski: But some people, I don't know, I mean, I imagine that some people are sincere when they say that.
Casey Herdt: Sure.
Stephen Skorski: So, I don't know. I guess it's… it's… there's a couple things. I think it's reassuring,
Stephen Skorski: To know that… You… you put a lot of faith in your experience.
Stephen Skorski: and your intuition. I think, you know, that… as opposed to, again, this, this, this, this, you know, unknown force that you, you know, say you're tapped into.
Stephen Skorski: So yeah, no, I think that's, it's good to know that. And then, the other thing is, when people… you know, if I was… you know, I'm having this conversation with you, right, and I actually do really like tarot cards, and…
Stephen Skorski: you know, sort of… I'm all in, you know?
Casey Herdt: I don't need.
Stephen Skorski: to be convinced, but people who listen to this might be just thinking, like, oh, well, maybe, maybe this is something I could do. And so, when you talk about it the way you talk about it, I think it opens the door for really anybody
Stephen Skorski: to say, yeah, I think that's something that could help me, something I'm interested in, and I don't need to be, you know… I don't have to have some supernatural connection.
Stephen Skorski: to… to be involved with this, and I think that's actually really powerful.
Casey Herdt: Good. I am so glad to hear that, because it's… that is how I truly, truly feel about it. You know, it's not… this is… cards are meant to be shuffled and pulled, like, you… yeah. It's like a self-help book
Casey Herdt: slash choose your own adventure, slash.
Casey Herdt: oh, that's very insightful, and it's all catered to the questions that you ask, and I just think that's
Casey Herdt: fabulous. And, yeah, it can be completely secular. It can be… it can be any of it. It's whatever you bring into the cards and into a card reading is what you leave with, too. We have to remember that. And yeah, I'm like you. I get very leery.
Casey Herdt: When somebody is, like, master of the universe, you know, and it's like, well, okay.
Casey Herdt: I mean, that's great, and there are clients for that, but I'm all about opening doors to really therapeutic tools
Casey Herdt: and talking about them in a grounded, practical way. And hey, if someone comes to me and they're like, I am an incarnation.
Casey Herdt: of ISIS, and I was, like, you know, Lumerian, ancient Egypt.
Casey Herdt: I believe him. Like, okay, well, let's go there. I can… I can speak that language, too.
Stephen Skorski: Right.
Casey Herdt: Right. I lived in Asheville for, you know, almost 9 years. Like, I got this.
Stephen Skorski: the crazies now.
Casey Herdt: No, Land of the Austin, it's such a wonderful place, but it's like…
Stephen Skorski: It is a great place.
Casey Herdt: I think that what I really enjoy is being bilingual in this way. Like, German, I don't want to learn German language anymore, but bilingual in this way.
Casey Herdt: Where it's a little bit… and then finding that perfect mix for the type of person that's in front of me is one of the most rewarding and challenging parts of the job.
Stephen Skorski: And I love it.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah. That's great. I like bilingual. That's fantastic. That's a great way to… Explain to somebody.
Stephen Skorski: What this thing could be.
Casey Herdt: Yeah. Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: You're learning, you know, you're learning a second language, or, you know, in the case of someone with, you know, as many decks as you have.
Casey Herdt: You know, 75. Right, right.
Stephen Skorski: No, I mean, but really, that's a… I think that's… that's a very relatable way
Stephen Skorski: To hear about, you know, these things, which is, again, which is fantastic. It's really… it's always very disappointing to me when…
Stephen Skorski: People have something… That's…
Stephen Skorski: could be fantastic, right? It's something that could kind of… and it doesn't matter what it is, right? It could be this, and this is very personal, or it just could be something else, I don't know, that's not as personal, but just still fun.
Stephen Skorski: But they talk about it in a very kind of gatekeep-y, kind of elitist, you know, I'm gonna use language, right? I mean, it's just so disappointing, because you feel like, why are you hoarding all the good stuff for yourself? I don't know, it doesn't feel quite right. Yeah.
Casey Herdt: No, I agree with you. I… yeah, I like things to be as transparent as possible, including my own limitations.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, yeah, that's… no, that's, again, very, very much appreciated. Let's do another one of these intermissions, and then I'll ask a few, few kind of deck-specific questions. Okay, great.
Stephen Skorski: So, vintage Rider Waite… or modern illustrated deck.
Casey Herdt: Modern Illustrated Deck.
Stephen Skorski: Okay.
Stephen Skorski: Animal decks?
Stephen Skorski: Or human archetypes.
Casey Herdt: Archetypes.
Stephen Skorski: Digital tarot apps?
Stephen Skorski: Or physical cards.
Casey Herdt: Physical cards.
Stephen Skorski: Hmm.
Stephen Skorski: Well, I suspected that.
Stephen Skorski: Worn edges were pristine.
Casey Herdt: Worn edges, love it.
Stephen Skorski: Okay?
Stephen Skorski: Now this one I… well, I guess maybe this is depending. Morning reading… Midnight reading.
Casey Herdt: Morning, for me. Yup, morning for sure.
Stephen Skorski: Reading for a stranger, or reading for a close friend?
Casey Herdt: Reading for a close friend.
Stephen Skorski: Reading during crisis or curiosity?
Casey Herdt: Mmm.
Casey Herdt: You know what? I'm gonna go with reading during crisis, because I feel like, really, sometimes you just need a…
Casey Herdt: A safe harbor for a minute.
Stephen Skorski: Great. I really didn't know the answer to that one. Yeah. Or didn't… I didn't have a speculation. Candlelight or kitchen table?
Casey Herdt: I… you know what? I'm going kitchen table. I freaking love it. Kitchen table.
Stephen Skorski: Alright, last one's silence or music?
Casey Herdt: Silence.
Stephen Skorski: Hmm, okay. That's it, okay. Does music, does sound have a place in your practice?
Casey Herdt: You want to know something interesting, is that I have sometimes, a hard time with auditory processing.
Casey Herdt: And so, what that means is sounds can, be very distracting to me. My brain doesn't work the best with audio.
Casey Herdt: And so I find that… Having it be quiet.
Casey Herdt: is something that I need to be able to, sort through the imagery and things of that nature. So that's… I think that's, like, a personal bugaboo.
Stephen Skorski: Hmm. Okay.
Casey Herdt: Hmm.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, no, that, I… yeah, that makes complete sense.
Stephen Skorski: So, before we… I'm gonna… so…
Casey Herdt: Couple, couple of small little sections here before we wrap it up.
Stephen Skorski: And the one section is sort of just, you know, kind of like the,
Stephen Skorski: I don't know, maybe the specifics of, sort of, cards and collecting, and… But before we get to that, I want to hit one… one area,
Stephen Skorski: And that is skepticism and criticism, right?
Casey Herdt: I'm sure.
Stephen Skorski: Or, you know, you've encountered people who are…
Stephen Skorski: You know, whatever, to varying degrees, you know, non-believers, right?
Casey Herdt: Hmm.
Stephen Skorski: So, what…
Stephen Skorski: do you say, or would you say, to someone who just… you know, whether… and let's imagine they say it very politely, right? They just… tarot is nonsense.
Stephen Skorski: Do you have a reply to that?
Casey Herdt: I mean, not really, because I don't think that, you know, when somebody says something so definitively.
Casey Herdt: it's like, who am I to argue? I mean, that's their experience, that's what they think, and
Casey Herdt: And I usually… the reply is something like, yeah, that makes sense for you. Like, you know, other… and I just kind of leave it. I don't feel like I need to… I don't feel that intimidated by it.
Casey Herdt: And so I don't feel I need to prove anything.
Casey Herdt: In that moment. It's like, you've made up your mind, okay.
Casey Herdt: Thank you for sharing. You know, like, there are a million other things that we can connect and talk about. This is just one small part of what I do.
Casey Herdt: So… but yeah, I mean, the criticism's there, and I think that that is…
Casey Herdt: it's just something that I've had to work on accepting, because it's very important for me
Casey Herdt: to be balanced and to, really balance out this idea of intellect and intuition and instinct and all the other ways that humans go about making decisions and, you know, our human behavior, all the things. And,
Casey Herdt: I used to be very insecure about being looked at as not intelligent, and, that has ebbed away in my 40s. That nervousness around… it's like, okay, this isn't for you. Go do what… I mean, like.
Casey Herdt: You know, like, NASCAR's not for me, like, it's okay. Like, going to church is not for me, that's okay. This is not for you. And that's fine.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, no, that's, yeah, absolutely.
Stephen Skorski: So, maybe along those lines, you know, have you… do you ever… or have you ever doubted yourself as you're, you know, kind of make… you know, you talked about sort of being aware of limitations, but I think doubt is maybe a…
Stephen Skorski: You know, limitations can almost be…
Stephen Skorski: Explained away… not explained away, but rationalized…
Casey Herdt: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: by just your belief in how the system works, right? Yeah, there's limitations to it, and I'm comfortable with that, but doubt is a different kind of animal.
Casey Herdt: Oh, yeah.
Stephen Skorski: So yeah, does this… is this something that factors in? Did it… maybe it did at one time? Or… similar to your kind of response to someone who says, yeah, this is nonsense, it, you know, you don't… it just doesn't even…
Stephen Skorski: Affect you in any way.
Casey Herdt: Oh, this is such a great question. So, I'm gonna answer it in parts. The first one is, yes, doubt has definitely been a part of my experience. There are more in little doubt bubbles that crop up.
Casey Herdt: You know, only to be popped, and they kind of dissipate. But I had a… I can call it a season of doubt, just in myself, in my, abilities, and I took… I took a huge sabbatical. I…
Casey Herdt: just… I stopped doing all of my practitionership for about 8 years when I moved to Germany. Oh, wow. And just, was severely burnt out.
Casey Herdt: And I would say a huge, a season of doubt.
Casey Herdt: crept in. And I needed to go deal with that privately, by myself, one-on-one, in the German forest. And yeah, that's a whole other story, I'm sure, for another time. And,
Casey Herdt: And so, I think it's natural. I think it's normal. I think anytime you've been doing something for over two decades, it's part of the gig. And now, I think the…
Casey Herdt: through my sabbatical, the deep rest, and all of the things that I needed to do for myself to shore myself up, to create a practice that's sustainable for me.
Casey Herdt: It's really about knowing what tool to use when.
Casey Herdt: And I'm lucky enough to have lots of tools at my disposal that aren't just cards. So if somebody is coming and doubting the cards, or being like, I don't know about that, I'm like, that's fine, we can do this, we can do this, we can do this.
Casey Herdt: It can be movement, and they can still get a really therapeutic session with me without it having to be card-based. And so.
Casey Herdt: I think that that's something that I'm really glad that I have.
Casey Herdt: just a lot of different ways to do this internal type of work. And depending on the person in front of me, or the week that they're having, or whatnot, you know.
Casey Herdt: What they need will change.
Casey Herdt: And sometimes it's cards, and sometimes it's not.
Casey Herdt: That's okay.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah.
Casey Herdt: And I accept those limitations, too.
Stephen Skorski: No, that's a… I mean, that's,
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, I mean, your clients are fortunate that you have that.
Stephen Skorski: such a… such a big tool chest, you know, to reach, you know, to reach, wherever they need to go, right? That's… that… really, that's amazing, actually.
Stephen Skorski: So, okay, so that's great. I mean, that really helped me, again, sort of just kind of, I think, wrap up your thoughts about
Stephen Skorski: I don't know, maybe how these things work for you personally.
Casey Herdt: Wow.
Stephen Skorski: So…
Stephen Skorski: specifically about cards themselves, and, you know, this is… these answers are maybe, in some ways really directed at people who are thinking, maybe I'll… maybe I'll do this, right?
Casey Herdt: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: So when you decide to acquire a new deck.
Stephen Skorski: What happens? You know, what are you responding to? Where do you buy it?
Casey Herdt: Yeah. Yeah, you know, just give me the, you know, the next deck that comes into your life that you have not been gifted.
Stephen Skorski: How do we think that's gonna happen?
Casey Herdt: Yeah, I mean, honestly, sometimes the first step is a little bit of boredom.
Stephen Skorski: Okay.
Casey Herdt: A little restlessness, a little, like, I'm looking at my cards and like, you know, kind of like, a little bit, yeah, boredom.
Casey Herdt: And so… so that is usually the indicator it's time for a fresh deck, in my mind. And the way that I have found some of my, like, coolest decks recently has really been Instagram.
Casey Herdt: You know, there are some fabulous people putting out really, like, artisanal-level decks.
Casey Herdt: that are so beautiful, and so wonderful, and so well done, and, I've been really enjoying that, or there'll be, like, a book that I see, and I read, and I'm like, oh, this is fabulous. And they're, like.
Casey Herdt: you know, posting about the Oracle card deck that they're using, and I'm like, hold on a second, what's that?
Casey Herdt: And that is a lot of… like, my latest decks that I've been really loving have kind of come through, like, the Instagram worlds, and kind of just, like, interesting people suggesting them or using them. And…
Casey Herdt: I go on websites, and I click Add to Cart.
Casey Herdt: It's not very magical, but it's very fun.
Stephen Skorski: No, well, I mean, just the fact… I mean, so that's a great… that's a great piece of information. So, for someone who is interested, they could go to, like, their local, sort of, bookstore, maybe, they could go onto Amazon and look at reviews, but they could also…
Stephen Skorski: Go into, kind of, the, you know, social media world, and find a lot of information that is maybe a little more,
Stephen Skorski: interactive or stimulating? Is that a fair assessment?
Casey Herdt: Yeah, and you can kind of see them in action a little bit more. I also think YouTube is a great place for it, too. I love YouTube. There's some great people that just go through
Casey Herdt: And, like, hey, I'm doing a deck unboxing, much like baseball card unboxing, and all, like, kind of that whole world. There's, like, a whole, oracle card and tarot deck unboxing world, where you can see the art on each one, they show little tidbits.
Casey Herdt: about, you know, the book, and that's just a great way to look at it. It's, like, low risk, you know?
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, yeah.
Casey Herdt: Ready to go into your, like, local occult store, that's fine. Although…
Casey Herdt: go in, because you'll have a great time, and talk to the people that own the store, and tell them what you're looking for, and they'll help you find a deck, too. But, yeah, for me at this point, I'm really into people that have, like, a very interesting niche.
Casey Herdt: And the artwork is on point. For me, I love…
Casey Herdt: class… like, classic art, you know? And so, anything that has any sort of, like, Renaissance art, you know, Greek art, I'm into. And then my Caccio de Pepe tarot deck is just on fire. I… I just cannot…
Casey Herdt: I love it, because it's all about sex.
Stephen Skorski: That's so funny. There's a restaurant in Venice. So I go to Venice.
Casey Herdt: At least once every two years, sometimes once every year, and there's a particular restaurant where they make that dish.
Stephen Skorski: It's awesome. They, they…
Casey Herdt: God.
Stephen Skorski: Oh my god, they make it,
Stephen Skorski: And they put it, you know, once it's all kind of cooked up, the last thing they do is they stick it in a wheel of cheese to kind of get even more cheese on it.
Casey Herdt: Oh my god.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, it's amazing. Then they take it out, and then put the pepper on there, and it's… it's amazing.
Casey Herdt: That is a transformative experience.
Stephen Skorski: Right, yeah.
Casey Herdt: You don't need oracle card decks, you can just go to Venice and eat the best Cacho de pepe in the world, out of a wheel of cheese.
Stephen Skorski: It's so fun because it's, it's so performative, like, they really make a scene, you know, they, you know, sometimes you, you know, sometimes you'll sit outside by the canal, and sometimes you'll be inside, but if you're outside, when they do it, you know, the voice gets, you know, elevated, and…
Stephen Skorski: you know, the movements are really exaggerated, and you know, people are walking by, and, you know, oh, wait, wait, what's going on over there? It's pretty fun. Yeah.
Casey Herdt: Oh, fun. Oh, fabulous.
Casey Herdt: Fabulous, fabulous.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, so, okay, so talk about,
Stephen Skorski: Rarity? You know, special decks in your collection? You know, is there any… is there anything like that, or do most of your decks really come from places like Amazon and…
Stephen Skorski: You know, kind of the online retailers, or, you know, maybe the shops, you know, but they're newer, kind of, cellophane-wrapped decks, or do you have
Stephen Skorski: Rare, antique, older decks in your collection.
Casey Herdt: I do have a few rare antique
Casey Herdt: decks in my collection from Paris. So, when my husband and I lived in Europe, we would go to Paris a lot and go to the flea markets, and we were always on the lookout for antique tarot decks. And so, I have a few…
Casey Herdt: And, and they're… they're wonderful. I don't ever use them. This is part of my collection that stays, like, just as a collection.
Casey Herdt: And so, you know, because I also don't read the Toth.
Casey Herdt: method of tarot, that's not something that I'm, into, and it's all in French, which I'm sure I could figure out. But, so yeah, so I have a few of those that are just very special, and then I have a few…
Casey Herdt: that are from this very artisanal, small batch designers, and one of them, I brought it out, it's called… you know, they're… they're… they're on the pricier side, and, the way that they're printed…
Casey Herdt: is, just… exquisite and beautiful, and gold-foiled, and and honestly, this deck, it's called Materia Prima.
Casey Herdt: by… I don't know if it's UC, U-U-S-I is the creator of it, but…
Casey Herdt: Every book is hand-stamped, and every card is hand-stamped.
Casey Herdt: And, it's way esoteric, it's completely over my head, but it's also super nerdy science-y. It goes through the,
Casey Herdt: The periodic table of elements, and created a whole…
Casey Herdt: oracle card deck from that. And so there's some really interesting things in there, and I would say that that's in my very special batch.
Casey Herdt: Again, a little sometimes over my head, but I kind of like that stretch. And, it's just a beautiful, beautiful…
Casey Herdt: deck.
Stephen Skorski: That's really special.
Stephen Skorski: Okay. And so, again, you know, maybe some people don't know, seems like the typical deck that you might get at a Barnes & Noble or online is, you know, somewhere between, like, $20 and $25. Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: When you say that these are much more expensive, are we talking a factor of 2, these things are $50, $60, or you're like, no, no, these are, like, $1,000 decks?
Casey Herdt: Not $1,000 decks, but definitely 100 plus.
Casey Herdt: You know, one… sometimes 150. I have a few that were maybe right around 200.
Stephen Skorski: But definitely not 1,000. Okay, and you don't… but you don't read those decks, is that correct?
Casey Herdt: I read them for myself, not often, but they're there. When I'm in the mood.
Casey Herdt: I will go to this deck, Materia Prima. And, yeah, it is stunning. It's just a work of art.
Casey Herdt: but yes, I don't read professionally from them, that's a personal read.
Stephen Skorski: So, when you look at your decks.
Stephen Skorski: Not… like, is there any way that you can look at your decks and not see tools and friends, and just kind of,
Stephen Skorski: Enjoy them as objects?
Stephen Skorski: Or… and if so, what's that feel like? You know, because when you get a deck like this, maybe that happens? You know, does it? Does it not?
Casey Herdt: Do I… like, like, objects de art? I definitely look at them as objects de art, like a, you know,
Casey Herdt: I have some decks that are really beautiful, and their cover artwork is beautiful, and so sometimes what I'll do in my workspace, if I need some inspiration, almost
Casey Herdt: like a bulletin board would do, or a mood board, or an inspiration board. I will take the decks out.
Casey Herdt: and I will get them in eyeline, or I'll take some of the cards out of the deck, and I'll display… I'll use them, like, as display, decor, but it's, like, decor plus…
Casey Herdt: You know, inspiration.
Casey Herdt: an intent.
Casey Herdt: So sometimes it's not about reading the cards for me in that way, it's about, let's say I have a certain association with a card, and I want to bring more of that in my life, I'll also put that out as a piece of art for a while.
Stephen Skorski: Okay, and that gives you a different feeling than…
Casey Herdt: Yes.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, okay. Do you let other people touch the cards? Your cards? Yeah.
Casey Herdt: Yeah, absolutely. I'm not precious in that way. Yeah, absolutely.
Stephen Skorski: Does physical wear matter,
Stephen Skorski: From your point of view, or from a collector point of view?
Casey Herdt: For me personally, the physical wear doesn't matter, and
Casey Herdt: No, I guess for both. Yeah, it doesn't matter. I kind of… I like it when they're a little, like, lived in. That, to me, means that I'm using them, you know? I think that's important.
Casey Herdt: And, you know.
Casey Herdt: Yeah, it's… it can show companionship in that way, and I like that. And I like a… when a card, you know, when they get a little bit softer, the tactility of shuffling feels really nice, and I enjoy that a lot. Again, that, like, soothing…
Casey Herdt: Ritual.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, no, absolutely. So, if somebody is interested in getting into this…
Stephen Skorski: let's call it a world as opposed to a collection. What would be your advice?
Casey Herdt: Okay, so my advice would be to go somewhere where you can look at a whole bunch of decks. I think that's the way to start, is if you can go to, like, your local bookstore, Barnes & Noble, metaphysical store, just get in there. Like, there's nothing to be afraid of. You're not gonna, you know.
Casey Herdt: Nothing. All you have defined is yourself with these cards. That's all… that's all you, you know, stand to find. And…
Casey Herdt: go and just see what catches your eye. Look at the front and back. A lot of times, the back will show you a few of the cards, and a lot of places, actually, especially the metaphysical places, if you go in, they have a binder of one of every one of their decks, so you can really look at the artwork
Casey Herdt: That's inside of the sealed card deck. And I find that that's…
Casey Herdt: So helpful, and, like, find something that you think is
Casey Herdt: beautiful. Find something that aligns with your values. Find something that aligns with your beliefs. There are just so many ducks out there for so many different situations, people, religions, it doesn't matter. Or completely, you know, agnostic, you know? And just…
Casey Herdt: Go for it. If you like animals, get an animal duck!
Casey Herdt: Just go with what you like, and start there.
Stephen Skorski: Hmm.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, that's great advice, because it really frames it as a…
Stephen Skorski: quest for knowledge. Because if you don't know.
Stephen Skorski: You know, there's just so much out there that…
Stephen Skorski: You know, the cards are evil, the cards are magic, the cards are dangerous, the cards are taboo, the, you know…
Casey Herdt: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: And that's…
Stephen Skorski: I mean, it's fine. I mean, I guess, if someone wants to really feel that way, I mean, maybe, personally, fine. But it's… but it is sort of sad that…
Stephen Skorski: there's probably a lot of people out there who feel that way, but they do have a curiosity, and… but that other thing keeps them from going into certain stores, or, you know, kind of discovering these things, but when you frame it as purely, it's a quest for knowledge.
Stephen Skorski: you know, you should never really be afraid of, you know, acquiring more knowledge. It becomes much more…
Stephen Skorski: permissive, I think, for a lot of people.
Stephen Skorski: And I do love the binders.
Casey Herdt: Yeah, they really make a good job of it, and if you are feeling really…
Casey Herdt: You know, I find that with people that are really new to it and they're nervous.
Casey Herdt: I direct them also to getting either an animal deck or a nature deck, because it's tangible.
Casey Herdt: You know, any way to… to…
Casey Herdt: to hold nature as sacred is not a bad thing in almost every single, like, belief system, you know? You see them, we see mountains, we see sky, you know, the elements are real, you know? If you get an animal duck, a dog, a cheetah.
Casey Herdt: All of these things, that can be a really approachable way where it's not… Maybe as intimidating.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, and, you know, you made a comment very, very early on about, you know, how the…
Stephen Skorski: The desire to… No.
Stephen Skorski: the future…
Casey Herdt: It's true.
Stephen Skorski: just… it's just been with us forever, you know what I mean? Like, it's… it's pretty clear that as humans, this is something that…
Stephen Skorski: whether we can do it or not is irrelevant. We want to be able to do it.
Casey Herdt: Yep.
Stephen Skorski: And so, not that these things can do it, maybe they can, maybe they can't, people can make up their own decision, but the fact that
Stephen Skorski: you know, when something's been around that long, and you see, it turn up in, like, every religion, major or minor, that there's some aspect of it, you know, again, I think that's another kind of permissive sort of thought where you go, oh, okay, wait a second.
Stephen Skorski: I'm not weird to feel this way, everyone has felt this way, people arrive at different conclusions and answers, and that is actually, I think, really nice for people, just to understand, again, yeah.
Casey Herdt: Yeah, it's like, it's just fundamentally human, and it's that beauty and burden of consciousness, right? Is to want to know.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah.
Casey Herdt: And, yeah, yeah, and it's just fundamentally human. And any way that we can get more in touch with our humanity, I think, is probably a good thing.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, I would agree. Well, let me do one last quick hitter set.
Casey Herdt: Okay. And then we'll go for the final question or two. Okay, sounds great!
Stephen Skorski: Okay, so I did, I did, I mean, the deck that I am most… so I have not… I maybe have 20 or so decks, right?
Casey Herdt: Oh!
Stephen Skorski: The one that I'm most,
Stephen Skorski: familiar with, and the one that I look at most, is the, the, the Ryder, weight, you know, Smith weight.
Stephen Skorski: deck. So these questions are, you know, all sort of centered around that deck, I think. Okay, great.
Stephen Skorski: So, these are not yes or no kind of questions. These have a little bit more thought to it.
Casey Herdt: Okay.
Stephen Skorski: Most misunderstood card.
Casey Herdt: the devil.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: Right,
Stephen Skorski: I actually… we won't get into it, but the second question that I asked, remember I was telling you I was going to pull, you know, I pull cards for myself.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah. For this conversation. And so, the first one was about the conversation, right?
Casey Herdt: Excellent.
Stephen Skorski: I was like, well, let me not make it about the conversation. And this seems so silly, almost, because people would be like, no way, that, you know, that's so Hollywood, you know? But anyway, my question was, what is the strongest force in my life right now? And the card I pull is the devil.
Casey Herdt: Oh, I love it.
Stephen Skorski: And I'm like, you gotta be kidding me.
Casey Herdt: Ridiculous. Oh, of course.
Stephen Skorski: So…
Casey Herdt: Oh my god.
Stephen Skorski: I would agree, misunderstood.
Casey Herdt: Totally.
Stephen Skorski: Okay, so… Can… a card you personally struggle with?
Casey Herdt: Oh, okay, there's a few. Oh.
Casey Herdt: There's a few.
Casey Herdt: What do I hate to see coming? What card do I hate to see coming?
Stephen Skorski: Mmm.
Casey Herdt: Let me think… Okay, so any of the… the tombs of,
Casey Herdt: The Two of Pentacles, sometimes, I'm like, ugh.
Stephen Skorski: Hmm.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah.
Casey Herdt: Okay. Like, two of pentacles. I'm gonna go with 2 of Pentacles.
Stephen Skorski: Okay.
Stephen Skorski: Random.
Casey Herdt: But yeah.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, okay.
Casey Herdt: Correct.
Stephen Skorski: a slight reason for that? I'm curious, that's a… I don't particularly relate to that card, but…
Casey Herdt: Well, because, like, because I always feel like, yeah, that's why I'm coming to the cards to ask about these two things that I'm juggling. Like, obviously, this is me. I'm the clown juggling the two things, and I can't decide, and here I am asking cards. Like, you know what I mean? I'm always like…
Casey Herdt: eye roll, you know? But I shouldn't eye roll, but yeah, I would say that one. I'm like, okay, got it.
Stephen Skorski: That's interesting, because I… this was the only section where I thought I would answer the questions myself, just to kind of have… Yeah, that's fun! And in this one, I picked The Fool for a very… for not the same reason, but for the reason of, okay, what do I do? Like…
Casey Herdt: types!
Stephen Skorski: I like dancing on the edge, but I do understand the risks involved.
Stephen Skorski: But if I'm looking for some direction, this is not helping me. You know what I mean? Like, in certain contexts, it makes total sense, but when the question has to do with, how do I move forward with this, that one doesn't necessarily give me an answer.
Casey Herdt: Yeah, that is… you just explained how I feel about the Two of Pentacles.
Casey Herdt: Yeah. That's exactly right. Yeah, same, same. That's so interesting. I love that. Yes?
Stephen Skorski: Alright, good, good. Card that seems to follow you.
Casey Herdt: Oh, the, well, recently.
Casey Herdt: the Queen of Pentacles. Maybe always.
Stephen Skorski: identical.
Casey Herdt: This follows me a lot.
Stephen Skorski: Okay, alright. And are you happy with this?
Casey Herdt: I am. I am. I mean, you know, there's, it's a multifaceted car, so, you know, but yeah, I think, I think, yes, I am happy with that.
Stephen Skorski: Okay. So maybe, maybe this is the same answer, I'm not quite sure. Card that represents you right now.
Casey Herdt: Me right now.
Casey Herdt: card that represents me right now. I'm gonna go…
Casey Herdt: I'm gonna go with Knight of Wands.
Stephen Skorski: Knife?
Casey Herdt: Okay.
Casey Herdt: I'm gonna go… yeah, yeah, I'm gonna go with Knight of Wands. You know, I just moved back to the United States.
Casey Herdt: I'm opening up a practice again.
Casey Herdt: You know, it's… it takes… yeah, Knight of Wands. I'm going with Knight of Wands.
Stephen Skorski: Alright, fantastic.
Stephen Skorski: Card that feels overrated.
Casey Herdt: Oh, gosh.
Casey Herdt: The Lovers.
Stephen Skorski: Oh.
Stephen Skorski: Why is that?
Casey Herdt: I think that… I feel like… It's like…
Casey Herdt: I think everyone thinks it's about two people, even though it's…
Casey Herdt: for me, when I read it, it's about an inner union, and so… I don't know, I think there's a lot projected onto that card. How about that?
Stephen Skorski: Okay, that's fair, that's fair.
Stephen Skorski: There's a lot projected onto it.
Stephen Skorski: Okay, and then the last one… card that…
Stephen Skorski: Feels like hope, or maybe the most hopeful card, the one that sort of just universally… feels like… Optimism.
Casey Herdt: Mmm… oh, there's actually a lot.
Casey Herdt: feels like…
Casey Herdt: I mean, it's so easy to say things like the star. I mean, I feel like that's a really…
Casey Herdt: I mean, that's probably quintessentially, like.
Casey Herdt: a hope card, so I would go with that, but sometimes I feel like,
Casey Herdt: Like, any of the aces feel like hope to me.
Stephen Skorski: Okay.
Casey Herdt: Yeah, I would say the Aces and Star, yeah.
Stephen Skorski: Gifts from above.
Stephen Skorski: Amazing.
Stephen Skorski: All right, fantastic. All right, good. Well, that was… that was the last lightning round. Okay.
Casey Herdt: Oh, that's so cool.
Stephen Skorski: So let's just… we're gonna wrap it up, with two questions. The first one,
Stephen Skorski: As you had mentioned earlier about giving decks away.
Casey Herdt: Yes.
Stephen Skorski: would love to just hear a little bit about your experience with that, your thought process, and, you know, I don't know, why you do it and how it makes you feel.
Casey Herdt: Mmm, okay, so…
Casey Herdt: You know, because I am now a deck collector, I'm a proud deck collector, I'm now naming it and claiming it.
Stephen Skorski: Awesome.
Casey Herdt: I'll get a deck.
Casey Herdt: And, you know, I'll use it for a while and whatnot, and then I'll sit there and be like, you know who this is made for, and what they're going through is, you know, this friend, or… like, it just reminds me of them, or…
Casey Herdt: what they're working on or dealing with in their life, and I either send it to them, like, give away, or if I know I'm gonna use that deck, I'll buy it for them.
Stephen Skorski: Hmm…
Casey Herdt: And it's… Yeah, and it's… it's…
Casey Herdt: I love doing that, I just…
Casey Herdt: when I see a deck that just…
Casey Herdt: I feel like is such a good fit. I feel like a little bit of a matchmaker in that way. Like, it's shirts, you know? It's, like, meant.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah.
Casey Herdt: And so, I like to do that, and
Casey Herdt: And it just shows them that I'm thinking about them when they're not there, and that, you know, I care for them, and I want them to be happy and healthy, and all of the things. And so, yeah, I either give it to them if I can, or if I know I want to keep the deck, too, I will just…
Casey Herdt: Send one to them.
Stephen Skorski: Okay, good, beautiful.
Stephen Skorski: Alright, last one.
Casey Herdt: Okay.
Stephen Skorski: Alright.
Stephen Skorski: What has tarot, or Oracle decks, Taught you about uncertainty.
Casey Herdt: Okay.
Casey Herdt: The uncertainty in life doesn't change, but how I deal with it does.
Stephen Skorski: Hmm.
Casey Herdt: And so… It's like… Using these cards is a grounding post, or a cornerstone for myself.
Casey Herdt: During uncertain times.
Casey Herdt: it reminds me of all the times before that I've gotten through uncertain times. Does that make sense? That repetition, again, of using cards, like… like I said, do you use these in crisis? I think that they're the most helpful in crisis.
Casey Herdt: Because it gives you something to hold onto, it gives you hope, it gives you a way for the day.
Casey Herdt: Or that minute? Or that second?
Casey Herdt: And with some of these decks that I've used for a long time.
Casey Herdt: simply using them reminds me that I've gone through tough times before.
Casey Herdt: And there might be patterns there.
Stephen Skorski: And the cards will show that.
Casey Herdt: And,
Casey Herdt: And, you know, I've illustrated probably in a million different ways, like, these cards feel like a trusted confidant.
Casey Herdt: And… Yeah.
Casey Herdt: That's how it helps me.
Stephen Skorski: Probably.
Casey Herdt: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: Well, it's beautiful. I mean, it sounds like…
Stephen Skorski: if I was to still distill down what you just said into one kind of…
Stephen Skorski: It gives you insight and strength.
Casey Herdt: Yeah.
Stephen Skorski: Is that…
Casey Herdt: Yes.
Stephen Skorski: Fair? Yeah.
Casey Herdt: Yeah, absolutely.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah. Well, that's, I mean, that's amazing, right? I mean, that's amazing. That is a… that's what's really… I mean, the word magic, I think, gets overused, and misused, but for me, that's magic, you know? And it's not a supernatural kind of thing, it's… it's a…
Stephen Skorski: It's, I don't know, some weird, strange, kind of unexplainable alchemical kind of… I don't know.
Casey Herdt: Yeah!
Stephen Skorski: Concoction of, you know, our brain…
Stephen Skorski: sort of relating to images and, I don't know, previous people's thoughts and ideas, and it makes the present moment better. That's…
Stephen Skorski: magic.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah.
Casey Herdt: Agreed. That was beautiful. Agreed.
Stephen Skorski: Huh. Well, okay, so first, before we say goodbye and thank you, is there… do you have places where people can reach you if they would like to reach out and, you know, kind of, find out… at the very least, even find out what you do?
Casey Herdt: Absolutely! So, I have a website at caseymarieHurt.com, and that is the easiest place to get ahold of me, to see what I offer. Like I said, I have lots of tools in the belt.
Casey Herdt: And you can email me there, too. So, it's all in one place, and that's caseymarieHurt.com.
Stephen Skorski: And I am going to, as we were on, I'm going to ask you to spell that for me. So it's Casey with a C.
Casey Herdt: A C, yup, C-A-S-E-Y.
Stephen Skorski: Yup.
Casey Herdt: M-A-R-I-E And then it's H-E-R-D-T.
Stephen Skorski: dot com.
Casey Herdt: dot com. You got it.
Stephen Skorski: Alright, and that takes us to… Rituals Within.
Stephen Skorski: practices that bring you back to yourself. Awesome! Fantastic! Alright, well that's
Stephen Skorski: I love it. Well, this has been fantastic. This has been everything that I hoped it would be, and more. And thank you, you know, for your time. It's been great.
Casey Herdt: Oh my goodness, thank you so much. You just made my dreams come true, to just sit and talk about tarot. I mean, this has been fabulous, and I'm just so grateful that Katie brought us together. So, thank you so much for your time, too.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, well, you're welcome, and yeah, again, just, just nice to… you know, the funny thing is,
Stephen Skorski: you know, we're, like, you know, 2 hours and 10, whatever, 2 hours and 15 in, and this could have been, like, 5 hours easy. Oh, 100%!
Casey Herdt: 100%.
Stephen Skorski: So many times, I was like, no, you can't go down that road.
Stephen Skorski: We don't have time for that, so, again, just really fantastic. I will, in the show notes, put your, contact information, maybe, some images of some of the cards that we talked about, and if you have anything that you might want to share image-wise.
Stephen Skorski: You can always email me, and I'll put those…
Stephen Skorski: Put those in the notes so people can put, put the pictures of the words.
Casey Herdt: Oh, I love that. I'll take some pictures of some of these decks that I wrapped on about, for sure.
Stephen Skorski: Oh, that'd be… that would be awesome.
Casey Herdt: Good! Awesome! Anytime you want to do Episode 2, you let me know.
Stephen Skorski: Yeah, well, that is… that would be fantastic, and I would say that is a certainty. So thank you. Yeah, so thanks, Casey. Well, I hope you have a great night and, you know, a wonderful dinner, and just enjoy the Arizona evening.
Casey Herdt: I will. Alright, take care.
Stephen Skorski: Alright, thanks.
Casey Herdt: Bye!
Stephen Skorski: Bye-bye!