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[00:00:00] Announcer: This is the Build A Vibrant Culture Podcast, your source for the strategies, systems, and insights you need to turn your dreams into your destiny. Every week we dive into dynamic conversations. As our host, Nicole Greer, interviews leadership and business experts. They're here to shed light on practical solutions to the challenges of personal and professional development.
[00:00:21] Now, here's your host, a professional speaker, coach, and consultant, Nicole Greer.
[00:00:29] Nicole: Welcome everybody to the Build A Vibrant Culture podcast. My name is Nicole Greer and I want to help you build a vibrant culture. And I have another-- I know-- amazing guest on the show today. His name is Ryan Rigterink. I am so excited to have him on the show. Check out this book he sent me in the mail. Ryan, you are such a generous soul. We're going to talk about redesigning lives, finding purpose and balance amidst the chaos and uncertainty. So let me read Ryan's bio and then I'll let him say hi. Ryan is re-imagining the future of work through human centered AI adoption. As a tech entrepreneur and systems builder, Ryan supports business and higher education leaders in designing work that creates meaningful mutual value. He is a nationally respected voice on talent ecosystems, AI powered leadership, and community innovation, and a catalyst for change where purpose meets performance. Welcome to the show, Ryan! How are you?
[00:01:31] Ryan Rigterink: I am well, thank you for having me on.
[00:01:33] Nicole: Yeah, I'm grateful that you're here. I have a question about your bio right out of the gate. I would like to know about talent ecosystems. When you say that, what exactly are you talking about? That's interesting.
[00:01:47] Ryan Rigterink: Yeah, that's a great question. You know, there's a lot of stakeholders around talent, right? There's, of course, the individual, which is, in my opinion and many others, should be the starting point and the end point. But there's a lot of stakeholders around how well talent does, from K-12 environment, to higher ed, to CTE, to employers. But then you've got, you know, a whole group of people that might not be thought of in terms of the talent ecosystem, and that's local governments and leadership bodies. And there's just a whole host of players that actually are a part of that ecosystem and each play a role. And so it matters how well communities are thriving, you know, that affects economic development and tax bases. And so there's a, just a lot of pieces that you know, it, you get into that, and it depends on how many layers down into the onion you want to go. But I mean, it goes right down into like roads and infrastructure in terms of the impact.
[00:02:42] Nicole: Yeah, I love that. And I think what's bubbling up for me when you say that is, you know, in terms of economic development, I have a lot of clients that are in manufacturing and they might be in a location and they just can't find the talent they need because there's nobody working on that talent pool to bring it up in that particular locale. So great that you're looking at the whole talent ecosystem. I love that. Yeah. And you also talk about AI driven leadership. Will you kind of define that for my listeners? What do you mean by that?
[00:03:14] Ryan Rigterink: Yeah, so AI and leadership is really about how do we use AI to hopefully not replace people, but to augment and actually design how AI can serve individuals as well as organizations. So we're really in the early stages of quite a re-formation of the whole talent ecosystem and, you know, people can 10 x their own talent by augmenting themself. And so we see the emergence of like fractionalized workers who are much more productive and are reaping the benefits of creating a lot more value. And then you've got, of course, employers on the flip side. So really it's about how do we take a human centered approach so that it's not man versus machine, it's machine that's serving man in the process.
[00:03:58] Nicole: Yeah. Yeah. I got asked yesterday by a human resource leader, you know, how do you see AI impacting training? And I said, oh, well, it's a fabulous co-facilitator, but you're never going to get rid of me because you need somebody to do the human connection piece. So I love what you're saying. It's humans first, and then let's add the AI to the process. That's fantastic. Yeah. So how did get into the work that you do? What's your story?
[00:04:27] Ryan Rigterink: It's an unusual one.
[00:04:28] Nicole: Is it one of those long stories? Yeah. There you go. That's right.
[00:04:31] Ryan Rigterink: Yeah, it is, so I'll give you the high level. I worked across four different industries, the bulk of which was in healthcare. I was in healthcare genomics, and was involved with some analytics. Ended up doing a case study on culture transformation, how to move from a rules-oriented, toxic work environment to one where people thrive.
[00:04:49] Nicole: What?
[00:04:50] Ryan Rigterink: Pioneering a form of leadership called purpose management. This is going back like five years now. So ended up guest lecturing a couple different business colleges. That led into a training program about really some key paradigm shifts that are very different from what we've inherited in terms of leadership , I guess, post-industrial revolution.
[00:05:10] Nicole: Yeah.
[00:05:10] Ryan Rigterink: So from that, it was coaching program feedback, you know, feedback like, wow, I didn't know this was possible. And so a year ago was really my inflection point of if I shifted from teaching people how to do this in kind of a spreadsheet analog format, but actually built the AI and the tools to really do it at a whole 'nother level, that it wouldn't just impact one company at a time, but could actually make a much broader impact. So that's the short version.
[00:05:38] Nicole: Okay. That's fantastic. That's fantastic. Yeah. And so when I picked up your book, which he sent me I'm so grateful again. His book is called _Redesign Life_. Everybody go to the Amazon right now while you're listening and pick up a copy of Ryan's book. I was instantly drawn into it, and I'll tell you why. In 2007 or so, I read a book by a woman named Laurie Beth Jones. She has written over 12 books. I'm not-- she might have well above that at this point-- but 12 books. And one of her books was called _The Path_ and it was about creating a mission statement for work and life, which is the same thing as purpose. And so I was drawn into that. I was like, wait, I have a mission? I have a purpose? And so she helped me write my very first personal mission statement through that book. And I think a lot of the concepts in there are very similar to the ones here. And I love that you're bringing it into the workplace, 'cause that was more of a faith-based book that I read. So I absolutely love the idea of purpose. And just a minute ago, you mentioned something, you said purpose driven management. Is that how you said it?
[00:06:41] Ryan Rigterink: So I called it purpose management at the time.
[00:06:44] Nicole: Okay, okay.
[00:06:45] Ryan Rigterink: I still use it, but actually developed a shared purpose economic model since then, and I, really am framing more of my language around shared purpose because is about the individual; that's the starting point. But then it's about can two purposes actually align for fit and mutual benefit, that that's where the, I think the real sort of magic happens. So.
[00:07:06] Nicole: I love that. I love that. And the consciousness that we each have a purpose, but we can bring 'em together to do something fantastic. Right? I love it. Okay, so, I don't know who Brian Reed is, but I highlighted first chapter, first thing in the chapter. "Everything is designed, few things are designed well."
[00:07:24] Ryan Rigterink: Hmm.
[00:07:25] Nicole: I love that quote. All right, so, this book is about the Redesign Life process. And it has six sections for moving from frustrations, pain and loss to a purpose-filled passion and wholeness. So how did you discover this for yourself? I told you my story, I found Laurie Beth's book. How did you figure out that this was a thing?
[00:07:46] Ryan Rigterink: Yeah. So this was really a labor of love. Uh, you go back probably, gosh, 15-18 ago, I forget the exact timing now, but um. had a kind of perfect storm, which I think is in that book, right? And that was a time where a business went sideways; things happened in, in a, community that we were a part of; and then my mom also died of cancer.
[00:08:07] Nicole: Oh, sorry.
[00:08:08] Ryan Rigterink: So it was in a four month period of time, it was, it was devastating. That's why it's like perfect storm, right? Uh, so that led me to a place where, honestly, it as you can imagine, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy kind of thing, right? beauty out of ashes piece of that, though, is that in long, 10 years after that was just journey of, okay, who am I? What do I want my life to look like? And reestablishing, really from ground zero, with a, new start. And so along journey, I looked at, gosh, almost every sector you can think of, from biology and neuroscience to psychology, to sociology, to all these different uh, things, sort of looking for clues and, and of course my faith journey was a part of that. But really got very curious and in that process ended up going through some applications that, you know, some were okay and some were absolutely the unlock I needed. And so
[00:09:10] Nicole: Hmm.
[00:09:10] Ryan Rigterink: that to kind of looking at my own journey of the past you know, 15 years or plus at the time. I recognized that I had gone through a process that --if I could map that out and, really connect I could offer a similar process that somebody could walk through in a short amount of time versus doing it in a i, don't know, want to say haphazard, but in an inefficient way.
[00:09:35] So
[00:09:35] Nicole: Stumbling along. Right?
[00:09:37] Ryan Rigterink: Exactly. Yeah.
[00:09:39] So I, So I really went back and, I had done a lot of writing over that. And so I went back actually to some of my own writing that did before, that was never intended to be a book, and ended up rewriting chapters and recognizing sort of the pattern of the path. And then really kind of turned that into a facilitated guide so that you can begin to think through those questions for yourself. And really the genesis of it.
[00:10:04] Nicole: Yeah, I love it. Okay, so the first chapter is super short, we've already covered it. But the second chapter I think is interesting. It talks about superheroes and zombies. And when I looked at that title, I was like, okay, I'm a superhero. I mean, dare I say that? But I love what you said underneath Superhero Dreams. You said, " most healthy children have active imaginations." And if I ever got accused of anything as a child, that was having a hyperactive imagination, but I always felt like things are possible, you know? And then I love how you kind of, flip the coin and you say, or are you moving through life as a zombie? And I think post-COVID. It's over, but I think people are still feeling the effects of what the heck happened. So talk about the difference between a superhero mindset and a zombie mindset, because that's a really good juxtaposition. I like it.
[00:10:55] Ryan Rigterink: Yeah, and, and I think, you know, if I'm being honest, I've been, I've been both of those depending on the time, right?
[00:11:00] Nicole: Right. All of us.
[00:11:01] Ryan Rigterink: Yeah. It's really about living in the frame of possibility, like you mentioned, believing for the impossible, because really, impossible is just a frame of thinking, in a lot of respects. I mean, who would've thought we could fly through the air before brothers got together and experimented and figured out the physics of it, right? So pre-airplanes, pre-flight, that was considered to be impossible. And I think in the US something that's really, I think a huge asset is we have a lot more of that. Of believing for the impossible. That's sort of a part of our culture. But even in the US, we've still got, I'd say probably the majority of the population that that's sort of, I don't know, taught out, beat out, like whatever. We get in this rut of just kind of going through the motions.
[00:11:47] Nicole: Yeah I couldn't agree more. 'Cause here's the thing: we're taught to pass the test, not to dream something bigger or better, so we keep it very tight and very small. I love what you're saying, and you have another thing that you say, do you want to live a life of purpose or a life of pain? And I thought that was like, right up in your face and totally good. Right? And he has two questions on page 10 that I love. Are you currently making decisions toward a life of purpose? And then are you making decisions that point you towards a pain-free life? Because we stand in choice, don't we?
[00:12:20] Ryan Rigterink: Yeah, absolutely. And the pain-free life actually, ironically, could be more painful in the long run. It's just perceived as less painful in the moment.
[00:12:29] Nicole: Oh, that's right. Like you could medicate yourself with all sorts of things, shopping and whatever, and then later on the pain comes, right?
[00:12:39] Ryan Rigterink: Well, pain in the form of regret and
[00:12:41] Nicole: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:12:42] Ryan Rigterink: Yeah. So there's a lot of choice we have absolutely.
[00:12:46] Nicole: Yeah, a hundred percent. Okay. So you said, "If you want to live a life of purpose, you're going to have to put a process in place." And you've got another great quote in here from William Ward. It says, "Curiosity is the wick and the candle is the learning."
[00:13:00] So one of the things that I do is I encourage all my clients to work through what I call the S.H.I.N.E.™ coaching methodology. And the first thing is self-assessment. So that's the same thing as you know, what's going on with you? What's the current state, right? So how do you redesign a life or what is Redesign Life? What is that?
[00:13:20] Ryan Rigterink: Yeah. It's, really uh, about living intentional and assessing and thinking through in a real sort of granular way who we are and what we're experiencing and what we want to experience and what we want to pursue and the impact we want to have.
[00:13:36] And so since I wrote the book, I actually launched a program called Accelerate Your Purpose, that actually kind of bucketizes those three things. Who we are by design, who we are by experience, and who we want to become by intention. It sort of sets an easier-to-absorb framework, because really purpose begins to flow and happen at a next level when we can align all three of those. And so I think when we can come into alignment with like, who we were designed to be and understand how our experience is either working for us or against us, and then really get into alignment with a purpose that matters. And I would say, even a calling or a destiny or there's a lot of words that can be put in that last one. And so, at the end of the day, it's about assessing who we are and what we're called to do. And so that's redesigning life with that intention and with that level of clarity that, that for me was life changing and hopefully it is for others as well.
[00:14:33] Nicole: Yeah. And I think that there are so many people seeking clarity. You know, the world that we live in, we were just talking about AI at the beginning of this. I mean, you could get so lost in all the opportunities and things that are out there and Google things and put things in chat GPT till you're blue in the face, you would never be able to make a decision, right? So I like to say this, I say, it's like turning the mirror inward. What is true about Nicole? Self-examination, right? Yeah.
[00:14:59] Ryan Rigterink: Yeah, I like that.
[00:15:00] Nicole: Yeah. And you've got on page 19 the steps of redesigning your life. Get your pens at the ready, friends. The first step is prepare for purpose, then discover passion, understand ourselves and others, find your fit, focus on what matters, and then balance your priorities. He's got six steps.
[00:15:20] So when you went through these six steps, can you tell us like, like a good HGTV episode, the before and after of your life, you know? Earlier, like you said in here, he had, you know, crisis, crisis, crisis. But then when you redesigned, what'd you end up with?
[00:15:37] Ryan Rigterink: Well, I, ended up with rebuilding relationships probably as the biggest thing, but engaged with sort of the dent on the universe that I'm supposed to have. And that starts with how I manage myself, quite honestly. How I self-talk and all the things. So I, I think preparing for purpose starts really with ourself and how we manage ourself, and the truths or lies that we're in agreement with internally. 'Cause the culture that we create around us is the culture that's within us. And so there's an aspect of, like you said, examination of how we're doing. That really was the starting point. From there it was inventorying my passions, and passion, actually, is often misunderstood as a term. Passion's actually what are you willing to pay a price for? So the movie, _The Passion of the Christ_, right? It was for the joy set before him, there was an aspect of paying a price that we don't necessarily think of when we think of the word passion. We think more of like energetic excitement, and it is, but the byproduct of that is what excites you to the point that you're willing to pay a price for, because that's the sustaining force that really drives something through to completion and to impact. So, yeah, for me that was really changing the employer employee relationships and wanting people to be dignified, with greater value in who they are and the talents that they can discover and grow and mature. I've walked that out with my own kids for years. I was really fortunate to have a father who was very intentional about that, as well.
[00:17:08] So yeah, that was it. Beyond that, it's really about finding where there's alignment outside of ourselves. So in our immediate relationships, in our professional relationships, even in the marketplace, where does what we have to offer, where does that resonate? Even within, we were talking about the talent ecosystem, right?
[00:17:26] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:17:26] Ryan Rigterink: Even as I'm developing tools for a talent ecosystem, I've done tons of stakeholder interviews and how people think about that problem, how much they care about it, how it impacts their world differs greatly. And so finding our fit is really about understanding where we can bring value at the highest level in the marketplace. 'Cause that's where the greatest mutual benefit and collaboration and impact is.
[00:17:51] Nicole: Yeah. Yeah. And Ryan's book _Redesign Life_, like he said, it's like a workbook, right? For your own personal life. But just imagine if every single one of your employees went through _Redesign Life_ and had a huge awareness, consciousness about what I'm supposed to be doing and how I bring value and how I can contribute to the organization's mission, vision, core values, et cetera.
[00:18:16] I absolutely love it. Now, when you talk about the life categories in the book, there's romance, family, work, friends, education, health, finance, and faith. So he talks about all of those in there. But more importantly, I think is chapter four. You talk about there are six essential habits.
[00:18:34] So Ryan, you don't know this, but we have mind meld. My coaching methodology again is S.H.I.N.E.™. And the "S" is self assessment, like what's going on with you. And then the "H" stands for habits. And I was told once by Dan Sullivan, who is a renowned coach. He said, "the current state of your life is the current state of your habits." And that kind of resonates with, "the culture around us is within us." I wrote that down. That's going to be tweeted later. Do we tweet still? Do we or do we x? What do we do now? I don't understand. Anyway so habit work. Oh my gosh, I think it's so important. Habits. The Redesign Life process is built upon six essential habits. And so you gotta put these habits in place to redesign your life. And the first one is curiosity. So talk a little bit about how you practice curiosity or why it's so important. I love that.
[00:19:30] Ryan Rigterink: I think it's something we foster and we certainly can practice it, but I think fostering a curious mindset and a learning mindset is really a foundation of it. I think what we lose oftentimes, you know, that stage when children are little and they're always asking why, why, why? There's such a natural curiosity. And then eventually, like we get told to be quiet.
[00:19:54] Nicole: Yeah, because I said so.
[00:19:55] Ryan Rigterink: Exactly, exactly. And, I understand. We've had to regain our sanity through that parenting process as well. But I think everybody knows how to be curious; I just think most people have lost the art of it, if that makes sense. And I think a lot of times it's just regaining natural curiosity and leaning into questions, leaning into, huh, I wonder why, I wonder if... and just cultivating that. And we can do that for each other by asking questions and fostering thought, and now we can even do it, to your point earlier about chat GPT, we can get insanely curious and go down the rabbit hole in so many ways these days.
[00:20:33] Nicole: Yes, we can. Yeah, that's right. That's right. And as an executive coach, one of the things that I was taught in my first little coaching program was, you know, you're sitting with somebody and you're listening to what they're saying: don't fix it for them. This is what my master coach said. And I love this so much, he said, turn to wonder. I wonder why they're telling me this. I wonder why this is important. I wonder why they want to share this and not something else. You know? So it's this thing of raising the desire to learn about other people. And you define it- which I love- I highlighted this: "Curiosity is built on a willingness to try and an audacity to act." Oh, I love that so dang much. That's on page 21. So good. Yeah. And there's a little book out there by Mike Hernacki and it's old, I dunno, it's from the nineties or something. And Mike Hernacki says willingness is the ability to do what needs to be done without reservation, refusal or judgment. And that's the audacity to act. So I'm like, oh, I'm hanging out with my brother Ryan today. Me and Mike and Ryan should go break bread together. Yeah, so good.
[00:21:46] Ryan Rigterink: Let me know the time and place. Sounds like fun.
[00:21:49] Nicole: Yeah, and that's the thing. I think a lot of people get stuck, you know? Like when you said I had like the perfect storm and you have crisis and issues, maybe some depression is coming over you, or sadness or whatever. But it's just finding that willingness to say, okay, I'm going to do one thing. And my "N" in my coaching methodology is a "next right step." Sometimes a goal is too big for people. They can't even set a goal, but it's like, what's the next thing you could do? You know, just
[00:22:19] Ryan Rigterink: Set a next step, right? Instead of a goal. Yeah.
[00:22:22] Nicole: Yeah.
[00:22:22] Ryan Rigterink: Whatever makes progress. I think just to go back to your earlier question about what is curiosity, I think part of the context here, too, is getting curious about ourselves. It's one,
[00:22:31] Nicole: Right.
[00:22:31] Ryan Rigterink: It's one thing get curious about everything around us and other people, and that certainly is valuable and has its place, but I think there's a certain amount of excitement that... well, we see it when people take personality tests and you see the energy and the joy and the smiles, right? There is something fun about getting curious and learning even about ourselves that I think is a great catalyst for a lot of different things.
[00:22:54] Nicole: Yeah I couldn't agree more. And I don't know if, Ryan, do you have these personality assessments in your toolbox? Like, do you do that kind of thing? Is that part of your services that you provide to people?
[00:23:04] Ryan Rigterink: So we use some. We haven't created our own, but we do use some of those. The assessments that we've created are really about career growth fit, motivation or ideal work experience. And then also culture fit. So those are the types of fit we're creating insights for in the job search and hiring process.
[00:23:22] Nicole: Fantastic. All right, so we're going to give you all of Ryan's contact information so you can get up on that. And then just FYI, listeners, you know, Nicole's got every personality thing under the sun it seems like. Everything from the, from the Tilt to the DiSC, to the StrengthsFinder, to the Myers Briggs, all the stuff.
[00:23:38] So, I agree with you. And I've been doing it so long, Ryan, that I'm always tickled when I do a new group of people with a personality assessment and like you said, they smile and they're like, oh, I am that. Yeah. You know. Yeah, it's so good.
[00:23:53] Ryan Rigterink: You see the light bulbs going off in the room? Yeah. It's great.
[00:23:55] Nicole: Yeah. Yeah, it is. And I think it's good too for the teams, right? Because when you look across at your team member, you're like, that is what their strength is. Maybe it's overdone sometimes, but that is what their strength is, you know? So, it's very good for the team. All right, so habit number two to redesign your life is to explore and discover passion.
[00:24:16] And in there you talk about getting a vision, a mission, a big picture, what you enjoy, what you're good at, what you find interesting. I think if you had a team full of people at work that were very clear about all of that, and you were clear about what your people could do, game changer.
[00:24:33] Ryan Rigterink: Yeah, this one I do have an inventory on. I have a desires inventory.
[00:24:37] Nicole: Oh, talk about that.
[00:24:38] Ryan Rigterink: You can just go through. Well, you can go through and journal essentially self narration, self-reflection, but really go into, okay what, are my desires? So I'm going to get really honest with myself across all these life domains. What do I care about? What do I want? And so, it's interesting, even as I went through it myself, how things came out of me onto the page that I sort of knew, but putting it down in writing and seeing those things and then going through a process of evaluating like, how much do I desire that and which ones do I want to make a priority? It actually created a process to partner even with my own heart in a more intentional way. And that was--
[00:25:20] Nicole: Ooh, did y'all hear that? Partner with your heart? That's crazy good. Love that.
[00:25:26] Ryan Rigterink: Yeah. So there's so much in us that just like, do you have kids or no?
[00:25:31] Nicole: Oh, yes. Yeah. But I have adult children now. I really want to tell you, adult children are so fantastic. I have a 32-year-old and a 26-year-old. And all the hard work pays off, all the nagging and forcing them to do their homework. It pays off, people.
[00:25:50] Ryan Rigterink: It does. I can attest to the same.
[00:25:54] Nicole: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:25:55] Ryan Rigterink: Where I was going with that was, we see so much in our kids, right? There's so much there that they don't see in themselves in the journey. And I think we're all those kids. I think we're all have a lot more in us that we don't necessarily recognize, but a process-- certainly getting around other people who help call that out and can help facilitate and partner-- and I think in a lot of ways, we're all called to find the gold in each other. Anybody can find the dirt but find the gold and and there's an aspect that we can do that for ourself as well. And, when we can partner with that-- first off, recognize it, but then partner with it-- I think it creates joy and it creates a different experience. So it's what I wish for everyone.
[00:26:36] Nicole: Yeah. Yeah. And I'm a huge, huge fan of employee performance management. I don't know many organizations you know, other than maybe some of the big ones that have huge OD talent teams and things like that, but just having a process to sit down and mine for gold with your employees. It's like, what can we develop in you next? And if we knew what their passions were, what they enjoy, what they're good at. And there's another thing-- Dan Sullivan's on my mind, I guess-- but he wrote a book called _Unique Ability_. Everybody write that down, _Unique Ability_. And in that book he talks about how you're good at some things, you're excellent at some things, and then you have a unique ability, and that's the one you love. You would do it all day long, you know, the passion part you were talking about. You'd do it even if you tired and you wanted to lay down, you'd keep going.
[00:27:24] Ryan Rigterink: Usually that's something we would do, whether we got paid to do it or not, right?
[00:27:27] Nicole: Right. Yeah. So good. So good.
[00:27:29] Announcer: Are you ready to build your vibrant culture? Bring Nicole Greer to speak to your leadership team, conference or organization to help them with their strategies, systems, and smarts to increase clarity, accountability, energy, and results. Your organization will get lit from within! Email her at nicole@vibrantculture.com and be sure to check out Nicole's TEDx talk at vibrantculture.com.
[00:27:56] Nicole: Okay, so habit number two was explore. Habit number three is reflect. And wow, imagine if everybody on your team, in your business, in your organization had a habit of reflecting. And here's how Ryan defines it: "Reflecting is a process that leads to greater understanding and is an improvement tool to move us toward where we want to go." That sounds like business 101 to me, understanding ourselves and understanding others. So how could we encourage our teammates to reflect and to take on this habit?
[00:28:27] Ryan Rigterink: We're kind of going back to consciousness, right? Becoming more conscious of who we are and how we experience the world and how the world experiences us. We all have a lens that we view the world through and actually experience the world through, and that's unique to us. And yet it's also something that if we can become more aware of it, we can actually adjust maybe where there's some scratches on our own lens or whatnot.
[00:28:53] And so getting insight into how I'm actually experiencing the world is an indication of either my own values that are beneath that or how I'm interpreting what I'm seeing according to that. So there's just a process where we can think through and we can sort of collect data. You know, two people can go through the exact same scenario and experience it different. And that's the unique aspect of somebody's lens and how they are thinking and managing themselves. And so reflecting is really the activity of curiosity in a specific direction of why did I experience it that way? Or why did they experience me that way? I mean, I don't know about you, but I've had family and whatnot experience me way different than what I thought I was coming across, way different than what I intended to come across.
[00:29:45] And so, ultimately I think reflection can be done with ourself, but I think it's probably best done in relationship. Because we can hold up our own mirror, but when other people do it, we can see our blind spots as well.
[00:29:57] Nicole: That's right. That's right. So I'm kind of, getting this thing about like, we need feedback, right? And we need people to help us see ourselves. And I love that you said that we do have blind spots. One of the most powerful questions I ask people at a coaching session is what is it like to experience you? Especially my leaders. I ask them that and they're like, oh. I've never thought about that, and I'm like, it's high time you did. Because what it is like to experience you is the way people see your leadership and it motivates or demotivates or whatever.
[00:30:31] Ryan Rigterink: Yeah. And, the extension of that, another one that, that I use sometimes is if your organization was a product, what would be the user experience?
[00:30:40] Nicole: Oh, that is so good. That is so good. All right, write that down. Say it one more time. Ryan, I'm going to steal it from you. What is it?
[00:30:47] Ryan Rigterink: If your company was a product, what would be the user experience?
[00:30:50] Nicole: Yeah, so good. And any marketing thing you listen to these days, it's not about the product, we're an experience culture, right? Like it's all about the experience of things. Ah, love it. Okay. Habit number four is connect, which is finding your fit. So you say, "Life is meant to be shared and connecting with others brings about some of our best moments. We live in a digital world where connection is often reduced to two social media profiles. True connection is much more than that." So what would our organization or our cultures, they'd probably be vibrant, right? If people were connected? Talk about connection a little bit.
[00:31:28] Ryan Rigterink: So connection's really about authenticity, right? On social media we get to consume other people's curated lives and it's not their real life.
[00:31:37] Nicole: Right.
[00:31:38] Ryan Rigterink: It's really about connecting with the authentic us or the authentic you. It's not about just a profile or a facade. And so in order to do that, we need to be vulnerable. We need to create spaces where people feel like they can be vulnerable or be authentic. You know? It's certainly not an excuse to be an idiot, but it is, to your point, you cultivate this in the companies you work with, I'm sure. It's about creating spaces and facilitating honest conversations and authentic connection and really the human skills that a lot of employers are looking for, actually. Like, I've been reading about soft skills, durable skills, and they're being called a lot of things these days.
[00:32:18] Nicole: I hate that they're called soft 'cause I think they're the hardest ones to do.
[00:32:23] Ryan Rigterink: You almost said what I say all the time, which is, soft skills are the new hard skills. They are the hard skills, especially since we're so digitally connected. If we want to be divided or offended by something, there is no shortage of opportunities these days because we're hyper-digitally connected, but actually not very authentically connected. And so that's a part of why you can be on social media and the more you are, oftentimes the more depressed and lonely you can feel. There's kind of a counterintuitive thing there, but I won't go in that direction 'cause I might get on soapbox.
[00:32:57] Nicole: Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Well that's so funny because you know, I've heard people say that, they'll ask children, what do you want to be when you grow up? And, kids used to say, oh, I want to be a firefighter. I want to be a teacher, a police officer. All of these very community based things that we need to survive in this life. And people, I want to be an influencer.
[00:33:18] Ryan Rigterink: Exactly.
[00:33:19] Nicole: Yeah. And I, you know, and my thing is, well, don't be an influencer until you've done what you've said, figured out who I am, figured out what my experiences mean, how I can help you avoid my bad ones and take on my good ones. And then do that with intention. Right. There's the influencer we need. Right. Okay.
[00:33:36] Ryan Rigterink: Absolutely. If it's just popularity and eyeballs, then that's uh, doesn't equate to what we're talking about.
[00:33:41] Nicole: No, not at all. Okay. And habit number five is focus on what matters. And it's that we need to assess and understand what's important in our life, and then manage our resources to get us where we want to go. And I think that that's so important, especially in our organizations. Focus on what matters.
[00:33:59] I just recently was coaching a client and she had told her team, well, we're going to go do this. Well, this opportunity lands in her lap. And she's like, oh, no, no, we're going to go do this. But they all got upset because they wanted to do that. And she's like, but wait, you don't understand. We need to do this opportunity that just landed in our laps, you know? So it's this thing of helping people to figure out what's important in the moment and then to put their resources behind the right things. And sometimes it's a little messy.
[00:34:27] Ryan Rigterink: Yes it is. I mean, mentioning books, the biggest competition of the great is the good," right? From Good to _Great._
[00:34:32] Nicole: Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. And then habit number six is balancing priorities. And you say this is built upon grit and momentum. So, tell us a little bit about balancing priorities.
[00:34:48] Ryan Rigterink: Well, there's another chapter in here where I actually break down that balance is a myth, even though, it's a part of this. If you think about walking-- back to the toddler analogy, right? When we're learning how to walk, we're literally putting one foot forward, and then we're like falling forward onto a foot. So I think actual balance is more about putting the right emphasis on the right thing at the right time. And it doesn't equate really to true balance like on a balancing beam of weights or things like that. It's more about if we can invest the right amount of time and energy and resources into the things that are the right priorities, then we feel like we are balanced. And so the process of living a balanced life is not actually being balanced. It's being prioritized.
[00:35:35] Nicole: Oh, I think that that is so great. All right. Did you hear that everybody? Take the word balance and think about priorities. You know, so I've balanced my life by prioritizing my life, which doesn't mean everything gets an equal balance. Doesn't get an equal bit of my attention. I love it. Now, the next couple chapters you talk about failure.
[00:35:54] And I love the fact that you say this. You say, "failure is learning." And so talk a little bit about great failure and taking risk, whether you fail or you succeed, why is that important?
[00:36:07] Ryan Rigterink: Because we have to give ourselves permission or we'll never engage what we really want to do. We'll stay in the shallow end of the pool, do the safe thing, and not actually pursue with everything in us what we really want to do. And at the end of a life that's a setup for regret. And the bill comes due at the end, unfortunately. For me, the whole thing was a paradigm shift from success and failure to success and learning. And so, de-stigmatizing results we don't want as learning. It's the whole Einstein thing, right? He didn't fail at developing a light bulb. He figured out 10,000 different ways that a light bulb didn't work until he found the one that did. And so reframing that so-called failure as learning is really permission to pursue, permission to experiment, permission to have even incremental progress towards something like we were talking about earlier. If you're not ready for a goal, take a next step. It's a similar kind of thing. And then, how we treat results in that process either perpetuates us to keep going forward or can turn into self-judgment, and we quit.
[00:37:16] Nicole: That's exactly right. Yeah. And it's that old fail forward thing, isn't it? Yeah. So we want to move things forward. Okay. So, I've had some epic failures in life and learned some serious lessons. And in the book, you share some of yours, but then you say you've got to dare to dream again. So, I'm naturally a big dreamer, but a lot of people aren't. You know, they don't want to get hurt again. They don't want to go through the same valley again. What would you say about daring to dream again?
[00:37:46] Ryan Rigterink: Well, like you, I was a dreamer and I paid a really high price at a moment in time. And so I came to a conclusion at that point that I didn't want to dream anymore. The cost was too high. And I have that choice to make indefinitely if I want to. And so it takes great courage to dream. It takes great courage to become curious and engage with possibilities. That is a choice, we talked about choice earlier. Recognizing that dreaming can be an act of courage, for me, was actually a light bulb moment in itself. Because a lot of people have gone through epic failures or crisis or even consequence that may or may not have been created by themselves. And if we don't respond in a healthy manner, we close in and shut down and get stuck. And we talk about a step forward. A step forward is actually that daring, that courage to dream into the possibility again. And so I talk about it in terms of our own relationship to vision. We can be actually anti-vision or we can engage with vision and have a relationship there with vision. Either actively work against it and shut it down or we cultivate it, dream, and then partner with it. And so it's a step forward, a step of faith, a step of courage to dream. And just recognizing that if you've moved from being really hurt or stuck, even if you haven't even taken an active step towards materializing that dream, just know that you've taken a good step even by daring to dream. And so that's really what that is about. It's dignifying the courage that's needed for people in certain contexts to begin to dream again.
[00:39:34] Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. And sometimes we'll have people around us that, we'll say, Hey, I'm thinking about doing this, but they know our history, they know our "learnings" (AKA failures), and they will kind of like poopoo, or discount what we're saying. But in chapter 10 you talk about the fact that oftentimes the desires we have are really good. Like they're not selfish, they're not this kind of thing like I want to be an influencer. Which, if you've got a story to tell and you can help change the world for the better, be an influencer, I'm all about it. But but I think sometimes people are like, should I be trying to do this? And I'm like, well, if it's good, you should absolutely get after it. Yeah. So, yeah. So, you say in simple terms, "Desires are an urge for something, similar to passions, but not as strong. Desires are not as deep or not as strong a motivator. They tend to change, move and fade. But we can have several different desires a day. Some come and go..." but I think that we definitely need to pay attention to our good desires. What do you think?
[00:40:41] Ryan Rigterink: Yeah, absolutely. I think a lot of desires could turn into solutions that help a lot of other people, and they get sacrificed on the altar of false humility.
[00:40:53] Nicole: Okay. Talk about that. The altar of false humility. That needs a little explanation right there.
[00:41:00] Ryan Rigterink: So, oftentimes we suppress our own desires, at least in the Judeo-Christian heritage.
[00:41:07] Nicole: Yes.
[00:41:08] Ryan Rigterink: Desires are often sort of just talked about as needed to be crucified or things like that, right? And yet good desires actually are meant to be partnered with. And so we oftentimes, out of false humility, can take an inspired desire and just cast it aside thinking that that's humility. In my opinion that's false humility. it's partnering with good desires that actually not only makes life meaningful, but it's how we end up serving others usually at the highest level is oftentimes through partnering with our own good desires. And so if you've ever thought, ah, what will somebody think? We have these sort of tracks that can run in our mind regarding our desires, and we often just censor those. We just kind of throw 'em aside as, as either too lofty, whatever, right? We all have probably a different way that we speak to ourselves on that. But I know I've done it, I've done it many times where that just seems too audacious, whatever. And it gets dismissed. And that's oftentimes, not always, but oftentimes on a self-judgment or critique or false humility kind of lens. And I think we would all be better off if more people partnered with their good desires, because their good desires grow and can be really turned into something that can be legacy creating.
[00:42:29] Nicole: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And so as you're talking, this story popped in my mind. So I did a leadership development for a long time with teens, which is a very good thing to do. I did a very long time. And we had this card sort that we would do with the kids, and it was a list of core values. And so the kids would go through the thing and they would determine their core values. I often think to myself, Ryan, what if somebody, when I was 16 had asked me what my core values were. I'd have been way ahead of the game. I mean, we've gotta do this stuff with our kids! But anyway, so this one young lady, Ryan, picked fame, 'cause they could go off the board for 20 points and pick a core value. And so she picks fame. And all the other kids and some of the adults in the room look at her like, oh honey. You shouldn't want fame, you know, like poo-pooing and discounting her desire for fame. So I felt that in the room and I thought, well, we have not turned to curiosity, which is Ryan's number one habit that we need to have in his book _Redesign Life_. So I said, would you share with us why you picked fame? And she goes, oh yeah, I will tell you. She says, because I live in section eight housing and I'm tired of it, and my mama's tired of it, and we don't feel safe, and I've got a skill that I have been given and I think I got it from God. And I'm like, well, what is that skill? And she says, oh, I can sing. And I said, oh, well will you sing for us? She goes, yes, I will. And she starts singing and the whole room is like jaw drop, and girl could sing, you know? So if I was her, I'd try to get outta Section eight housing too and be famous because this would change the trajectory of her whole life, you know, and give hope to her neighbors and...
[00:44:11] Ryan Rigterink: Yeah.. Yeah, that's a great example of that. And how many times do we have people around us that react that way, or we just imagine what other people will say and dismiss it ourselves. So yeah, that's a great story of that. Our kids have unfortunately compared themselves to each other in the whole growing up process, and they're all very uniquely different. And so we've had to monitor some of that environment in our own home over the years. Like, you're different. You have different values, different giftings. We're going to celebrate the differences instead of everybody having to be judged by somebody else's strength. It's not a fair comparison.
[00:44:47] Nicole: Yeah. I love that. That's so good. Yeah. And so what you also say about these desires is that you can watch over your desires, breaking them up into two things, awareness and evaluation. And that's on page 66 and 67. And just making sure that your desires align with your values. Like that young lady, it didn't seem like she was full of herself. She was confident that she was given that gift for a reason, like she put it together. I just absolutely love that. That's fantastic. Well, I want to do one more thing, Ryan. I want to talk about igniting your passion, because I think that's probably the most important thing to redesign in your life is igniting your passion.
[00:45:25] So you've got a quote from Howard Thurman, and I bet you not many people know that name, but y'all need to get a book by Howard Thurman. And it'll change your life. All right, so he says in here, "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive and go do that. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive." And Howard Thurman was a preacher, pastor, mind blowing, African American, awesome human. So please go get a Howard Thurman book. If I could have him on the podcast, I would. I can't. But anyway, so talk about igniting your passion. Let's bring this podcast home by talking about passion for a minute. What are your thoughts on passion?
[00:46:05] Ryan Rigterink: Well, I think it's one of those things that is not partnered with and is often dismissed as just this field good thing. Like everybody wants to follow their passion and it's not practical and all this sort of stuff.
[00:46:18] Nicole: Right, right.
[00:46:18] Ryan Rigterink: And yet if we can discover and find our passion, it changes how we show up in the world. And so I think passion is actually one of the most strategic things that we can do for our career. Because what follows passion is natural engagement, is actually accelerated learning, higher levels of excellence. Like all of these things that we want for our kids or in our employment, in our companies. Like, we want that.
[00:46:47] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:46:47] Ryan Rigterink: And so tapping into that is huge. It's not just a feel good, younger generation, follow your passion kind of thing. I think it's foundationally strategic. That quote, I put it in there for a reason. I think it's amazing.
[00:46:59] Nicole: Oh, so good, me, too.
[00:47:00] Ryan Rigterink: I want everybody to come alive and I want everybody to engage with what makes them come alive. Because imagine a world where everybody was engaged that way and everybody was alive. It would be a vibrant culture.
[00:47:15] Nicole: That's it. Yes. And here's what I say, Ryan, when I'm talking to people, I'm like imagine that everybody knew their mission, their purpose, their passion, their desires, all the things we're talking about on this podcast. We might cure cancer. We might figure out, you know, she's left and I'm right. I mean, all the things that are like wrong with the world is because we're focused on the wrong things. We're not focused on why we were born and what our passion is. Oh, I love what you're saying.
[00:47:42] Ryan Rigterink: I appreciate it. Honestly, it's a father and a mother's heart, I think, applied to people. It's, don't we want our kids to find what they love and excel in what they do. I mean, I think we want that for our kids. We want it for everybody. It's more permission and then finding where that can show up in the world to be valued and to serve others that I think is oftentimes the missing piece with passion. It's, not just a, you know, I found my passion and therefore everybody should recognize my passion and have unrealistic expectations of how the world should respond to it. Right? Finding our passion and partnering with it is kind of step one. And so I think that's probably why it gets dismissed as just sort of a feelgood exercise, but it's foundational strategy to partner with and then create value with in the world. And then, oh, by the way, accelerate and serve at a higher level ultimately.
[00:48:39] Nicole: That's exactly right.
[00:48:40] Ryan Rigterink: I have some people in mind, I don't have permission name them, but there are people I know that have partnered with their passion and they have flown up the corporate ladder because they show up fundamentally different than somebody who's not engaged with who they are and what they were designed to do. And so if you chase success, just like when you chase money, like you might get some, but it's, like, a byproduct. Find what really makes you come alive and partner with that and find where you can deliver value to the marketplace and then good things follow. So that's kind of my take on passion. I think it's something we need a lot more of.
[00:49:20] Nicole: Yeah. Yeah. And I'll tell a story and I have permission to tell, so everybody go check out Darryl Bellamy and his website. He was a coaching client of mine in the way back. And you talked about like who you are in the experiences you have and then having the intention. So when I was coaching him, one of the things he said is, I just had a lot of fear. You know, like, I'm scared of this. I'm scared of that. And he actually ran for president of his student class at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte. And yeah. And he was like, I was so scared, but he said I had this young lady who was going to run with me and be like the vice president and all that stuff. And he said it was one of the scariest things I ever did, but I got so much encouragement from my friends. They're like, we need somebody like you to do this and da da. And so he was like, okay. You know, and so he just did it scared. Well, he took that one story and now he travels all over the United States talking to college students. About the fears of going from I'm a young adult now and in four years they're going to expect me to take care of myself, you know, and I gotta be a real adult, you know? And and so he does this whole thing where people put their fears on a piece of paper and they throw them in the fire. And they do all this stuff and, and he is changing lives. But it's such an authentic, amazing passion and purpose of his, to help people not be scared, you know? Isn't that great? Oh, Darryl Bellamy. Yeah.
[00:50:47] Ryan Rigterink: I have a friend similarly. She wrote a book called _Fearless_, and it's along the same lines about how fear is a choice and the fact that we can live fearless. It's a great read too. If you get a chance, pick up her book as well.
[00:50:59] Nicole: Okay. Can you tell us her name?
[00:51:01] Ryan Rigterink: Yes, Sandy Gledhill.
[00:51:03] Nicole: Very good. All right, we want to get it. We'll put it in the show notes too. And maybe we could get Sandy on the podcast to talk about being fearless. That would be fantastic. All right. So Ryan, it's the top of the hour and I know that my listeners are like, wait, I want to know one more nugget. What's one more nugget you might leave us with to kind of tie a bow on this whole thing about redesigning our lives.
[00:51:27] Ryan Rigterink: Yeah, that it's worth the work. Finding your purpose and partnering with it actually takes effort. It takes sometimes some difficult internal work, but it is absolutely worth it. You are too valuable not to do that work.
[00:51:43] Nicole: Yeah I totally agree. You're absolutely worth the work. All right. Well, Ryan, it has been my pleasure to have you on the Build A Vibrant Culture podcast. And you can find Ryan on Facebook, you can also find him on LinkedIn, and what is the website that we could go to to find you, Ryan?
[00:52:00] Ryan Rigterink: Go to leadersops.com.
[00:52:01] Nicole: Okay. All right, fantastic.
[00:52:04] Ryan Rigterink: Thank you so much for having me on. I really appreciate it. I enjoyed our conversation.
[00:52:07] Nicole: Yep, me too. Thank you so much, Ryan. I hope you have a vibrant day.
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