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The Joint Venture is the weekly sports, music, and entertainment podcast hosted by Grammy Award-winning rap icon Lil Wayne and Sports Talk Radio Hall of Famer Craig Carton.
What started as a genuine friendship has become one of the most entertaining conversations in sports and pop culture. Every week, Lil Wayne and Craig Carton bring their unique perspectives together for unfiltered discussions that blend sports, hip-hop, music, entertainment, and the stories making headlines. With their natural chemistry, quick wit, and honest opinions, no topic is off limits.
Whether they’re breaking down the biggest moments in the NFL, NBA, college sports, boxing, or the music industry, reacting to viral moments, debating hot takes, or sharing behind-the-scenes stories from their careers, Wayne and Craig deliver the kind of conversation that feels like you’re hanging out with two friends who have seen it all—and aren’t afraid to say what they really think.
Each episode features celebrity guests, professional athletes, musicians, coaches, entertainers, and industry insiders who bring fresh perspectives and unforgettable stories. From championship moments and locker-room conversations to life on tour, career-defining decisions, entrepreneurship, fatherhood, creativity, and the business behind sports and entertainment, every guest adds something new to the conversation.
Fans can expect honest sports commentary, candid interviews, funny stories, unexpected debates, and the kind of authentic conversations that happen when two people from completely different worlds genuinely enjoy each other’s company. Whether they’re discussing the latest games, the biggest names in music, trending topics, current events, or moments that simply make them laugh, The Joint Venture never takes itself too seriously.
If you love sports podcasts, hip-hop podcasts, celebrity interviews, music conversations, pop culture, comedy, or simply listening to great personalities having real conversations, The Joint Venture belongs in your weekly rotation.
New episodes drop every week with fresh guests, new stories, bold opinions, and plenty of surprises. Follow The Joint Venture on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, iHeartRadio, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts, and never miss an episode.
[01:00:00] Craig Carton Welcome to another edition of The Joint Ventures Show. Little Wayne, Craig Carton, our guest on today's episode, is the man solely responsible for SpongeBob SquarePants. Ladies and gentlemen, Kevin Kay joins us today.
[01:00:13] Kevin Kay It was originally called Sponge Boy. Sponge Boy? Sponge Boy, and we couldn't clear it.
[01:00:20] Craig Carton Welcome to another edition of The Joint Ventures Show. Little Wayne, as always, Craig Carton. Great to have you guys joining us today. I'm not sure how big a cartoon guy you are. Are you a cartoon guys?
[01:00:31] Little Wayne Oh, when I was younger.
[01:00:32] Craig Carton When you were younger, growing up, did you have a go-to cartoon? Like, are you old enough to be like a Tom and Jerry guy?
[01:00:38] Little Wayne I was actually going to say Tom and Jerry.
[01:00:41] Craig Carton Come on! Nah, I really would. Were you?
[01:00:43] Little Wayne I was gonna say Simon Jarrett, yeah.
[01:00:44] Craig Carton So I have a list here, all right? So it goes like this. What are the top five cartoons to watch when you're stoned on the couch and there's no sports on TV? That's the setup for this, okay? So Tom and Jerry is on the list. All right, you wanna take a shot at the other four? That made the top, and this is not according to me. This is according to the cartoon experts of the world. The five greatest cartoons of all time, specifically to watch while stoned on the coach. Okay, I-
[01:01:13] Little Wayne Specifically that, then I probably know one, another one or two. Okay. Probably like...
[01:01:20] Craig Carton SpongeBob SquarePants is on the list. Yes, top five. Number three, I'll give you a hint. It was a crime-fighting group led by a stoned dog. Oh? Scooby-Doo? Scooby Doo! That's right. And Shaggy and the lesbian Thelma.
[01:01:40] Little Wayne I don't know what this meant.
[01:01:41] Craig Carton And others, that's number three. Number four is a family that's never aged in 30 years.
[01:01:50] Little Wayne The monsters isn't
[01:01:51] Craig Carton Not the monsters, no, no.
[01:01:52] Little Wayne Oh, uh, I don't know that one.
[01:01:54] Craig Carton The boy has blonde, spiky hair and always gets into trouble. The Simpsons.
[01:02:01] Little Wayne They never aged? Are you just saying that? Because they never actually aged. Okay. I thought that was like a part of the cartoon.
[01:02:09] Craig Carton No, no, so they're always, Bart, I think, is always like 12.
[01:02:12] Little Wayne That was very interesting and never aged.
[01:02:16] Craig Carton It's the same that that was the problem with like non-animation stuff like the Brady Bunch got older Yeah, they right at some point they got older and then one of them became a porn star Yeah, which is sorry And the last one I've never seen it believe it or not family guy is considered a top five all-time cartoon
[01:02:36] Little Wayne Never seen it, but I know exactly what it is.
[01:02:38] Craig Carton Yeah, do you remember like the Hanna-Barbera stuff like Ricochet Rabbit?
[01:02:42] Little Wayne I don't know about ricochet rabbit, I don't know what to handle with it.
[01:02:46] Craig Carton Ricochet rabbit was just like rabbit on coke. Okay, and bing-bing-bing Ricochet and I used to say Ricochet a rabbit The reason I bring it up is that our guest on today's episode is the man solely Responsible for spongebob squarepants being on TV. Okay. Ladies and gentlemen, Kevin K joins us today I'm the joint venture. There he is. Are you doing he has lost weight since I last saw him KK, how are you? One more K, we're in trouble. Yeah, good.
[01:03:20] Little Wayne I gotta tell everybody before they come on this show, don't feed in to it too much.
[01:03:25] Craig Carton I know him.
[01:03:26] Little Wayne Pretty well.
[01:03:27] Craig Carton He hired me twice, by the way. It's how we met. Well, it's good to see you, pal. It's great to see YOU. Yeah. It's been great to be here with you. Yes. Did you guys ever talk to Wayne about doing stuff on Spike?
[01:03:36] Kevin Kay We should have.
[01:03:38] Craig Carton Yeah, we're sure drop the ball now what happened the Flintstones why the Flintstone's did not make the list Wow Sorry about that. They probably should have yeah, but they're speaking of the Flint stones Yes, were you more of a Wilma guy or a Betty guy?
[01:03:49] Kevin Kay Daddy. What? Yeah.
[01:03:51] Craig Carton By the way, do you even think twice? He had that answer ready to go. I think Betty was probably more fun, don't you think? Wim was kind of like, I don't know, like pole brass kind of thing. Like not tonight, you know, Betty was ready to rock.
[01:04:06] Little Wayne He said, not tonight.
[01:04:09] Craig Carton And Pembles was pretty smoking hot too, if I may. Yeah, we used to have a thing, you know this, like what cartoon woman would you, if you could, you know, hook up with a cartoon. I always said Jessica Rabbit, but did you ever contemplate that?
[01:04:24] Kevin Kay Jessica Rabbit is a great choice. Great one, right? Yeah, I would go with that.
[01:04:28] Craig Carton Yeah, that's it.
[01:04:29] Kevin Kay Easy answer. Come to San Diego.
[01:04:31] Craig Carton Where in the world is Carmen Sandiega? That was your girl? Cartoon girl? Wow. I didn't see that one coming, but you clearly thought about it. Psychopath. From a previous episode, we learned that Wayne might be a psychopath. That's certainly possible. Well, Kevin, you have this crazy career arc. You actually are old enough to have been on the first season or employed by Saturday Night Live in their very first season, which for a lot of people He was the greatest cast. Of all time. Walk us through how you got that job before we get to the SpongeBob stuff.
[01:05:05] Kevin Kay Sure, you know, I started on TV when I was like 16, working on a bunch of game shows and stuff, and you know I was in college, and Saturday Night Live started, but I actually, the first show that I worked on called Saturday Night live, was Saturday Night with Howard Cosell. Okay. Yeah. And Saturday Night was not called, it was called NBC's Saturday Night, because ABC owned the title Saturday Night Life. So that's why the first year of Saturday Night Live was called NBC Saturday Night.
[01:05:36] Craig Carton I never even heard that.
[01:05:36] Kevin Kay Yeah, and until Howard got canceled, which he well deserved. So I was on the Howard Cosell show for the first three or four episodes. Howard and I didn't get along really well. I was the cue card guy. He did not want to read cue cards whatsoever under any circumstances. Howard just wanted to be Howard. He wanted to talk. He didn't take any cues. And back in those days, you needed a five-second roll cue in order to roll a piece of tape, right? So Howard wouldn't do it. He wouldn't read the cue cards. He wouldn't do anything. And then he'd just say he'd end whatever he was going to do and throw to something, and nothing would happen for five seconds. And then he'd just yell at everybody. Like, he's furious, he'd yell at everyone. And I had the cue cards and I was holding them up and I keep was pointing at him but he wouldn't even look at me. And are these like huge cue cards? No, they were like this size. So big though. Yeah, big. Yeah, yeah. And I was standing under the camera and I pointing at the cards and he just wouldn't read them because Howard was Howard and he did his thing. And... You know, after about four or five weeks, I just realized, like, there's no point for me to be here anymore. And Saturday Night Live had started, or NBC's Saturday Night had started. So, that was it. I quit. He said he fired me. You know. Whatever happened, happened. And I left. And then I got a call to go work on Saturday Night live, or what was then... What became Saturday Night? Yeah, what became Saturday night.
[01:06:55] Craig Carton As the cue card guy?
[01:06:57] Kevin Kay As the Cue Card Guy.
[01:06:57] Craig Carton That was a job description. Yeah, it's you card guy. Nobody can go like this. You know, Kevin K can pull them up
[01:07:04] Kevin Kay There were three of us actually
[01:07:07] Craig Carton You can't
[01:07:07] Kevin Kay Yeah, because, you know, if I'm talking to you, if you call if I talking to you, you need to.
[01:07:11] Craig Carton Cards back.
[01:07:12] Kevin Kay Yeah, you need to see the cue cards behind me I need to the cue card's behind you and then there's got to be one out there where the camera is so that you know I don't always look at you, which I love looking at you Craig
[01:07:23] Craig Carton Nobody loves them. People like it. Nobody loves it.
[01:07:27] Kevin Kay Wayne's already tired of me. But the first episode I worked on was the Richard Pryor episode, which was unbelievable. And that's the one that had Chevy Chase and Richard doing the honky.
[01:07:40] Craig Carton Right, right, right.
[01:07:40] Kevin Kay Right? Yes.
[01:07:42] Craig Carton They famously did not like each other right the story goes that Richard Pryor either didn't find Chevy Chase funny Or whatever the case may be but they had there's like this story. There's stories. They were not
[01:07:51] Kevin Kay There's stories after that. They did not like each other. Yeah, they didn't like each others.
[01:07:54] Craig Carton So people have told me that back in the day that first couple years of SNL Like the only way to get a story greenlit would be to sit in a room and do a bunch of blow with the writers Or they didn't trust you or want to hear what you got to say. So you you were there Yeah, are those stories accurate? I said they're fairly accurate. See I Don't make everything
[01:08:14] Kevin Kay Wayne some of the stuff is real like you
[01:08:18] Craig Carton Research, right?
[01:08:19] Kevin Kay There was a lot of stuff going on. There was. Yes. I think Michael O'Donoghue, who is one of the funniest writers I've ever been around, used to say like, everybody on this show is fucking everybody else. The writers are fucking the writers, and this is fucking that, and the stagehands are fucking stagehans. I hope not.
[01:08:40] Craig Carton Made for a good show. They worked it out somehow, someway. Were you there when it finally became successful?
[01:08:47] Kevin Kay Yeah, I was there for the first five years. Five full years. The five full years that Lorne was on the show before he left, I there for those first five years, which was an unbelievable experience.
[01:08:57] Craig Carton Was Chevy Chase as hard to work with as people say? Yeah. How about Belushi?
[01:09:01] Kevin Kay Unbelievably fun and unfortunately, you know.
[01:09:05] Craig Carton Right, like many people...
[01:09:06] Kevin Kay You know, he had good days and bad days, and it depended on, you know, the drugs, honestly. But he was a, I loved John Belushi, and he was wonderful to me, and yeah, he was really good to everybody. And, you, know, on a bad day, he wasn't as nice as he was on a good day. And Danny Ackroyd was just one of the nicest people you'll ever meet in your entire life.
[01:09:26] Craig Carton He was, huh? Yeah
[01:09:27] Kevin Kay Really, really great.
[01:09:28] Craig Carton Did you watch SNL as a kid growing up?
[01:09:30] Kevin Kay I am a grandma to me.
[01:09:31] Craig Carton Your grandma.
[01:09:33] Kevin Kay Yeah, yeah, it's because she loved Belushi. She loved Belusi. Yeah, I loved Beluchi. I loved Gilda. I actually loved that whole cast.
[01:09:42] Little Wayne And then Richard probably is. I've probably seen that episode. That was one of our friends.
[01:09:46] Craig Carton Yeah, like you couldn't do it today is like one of those you could get away with it back then Yeah, if you didn't say Everybody gets fired
[01:09:53] Little Wayne I don't know though, Craig, because when you say today, today, it's different in that they're kind of going back out there today.
[01:10:01] Craig Carton That's true, too. Yeah. I know we give like the cancel culture, but you can do things and not get canceled. Exactly. Maybe we've come full circle.
[01:10:08] Little Wayne Have you seen Saturday Night Live recently? Yeah, but they ain't doing that. I can tell you that. You performed on SNL a bunch of times. I did, but I actually did that for the anniversary. I performed for the Anniversary.
[01:10:19] Craig Carton There for the 50th anniversary. What's it like as a performer doing SNL?
[01:10:25] Little Wayne First of all, it's a privilege, and it's an honor. So, and also the main thing, you just don't want to mess up. You want to make sure it's one of the, you know, one of your best performances ever. So I was more focused on, the first time I ever did, I was focused on the performance. Then got a chance to be involved in one of skits and all that. Then once you get a chance do that, obviously you're not even worrying about your performance. No more, you focused on that. You want it to get that right. But as soon as I got there... So, I mean, every person that laid their eyes on me, you could tell that they were just trying to make me feel super comfortable. Everybody joked with me. So by the time I got on, I was joking, having fun. You were? Yeah. And also, when I did it, Pete Davis was on it. Okay. He was there and he had just like, broke up with Ariana Grande. She just broke up him. Right. And so I had to write a rap for him about that. And so, he was like, he's really funny.
[01:11:18] Craig Carton That's funny. So it's funny for someone who's lived his whole life on the stage when you now get into a skit Your belly starts going a little bit right because you don't mess it up
[01:11:26] Little Wayne And I can say the reason for that is not because it's a skit and not because I'm used to performing or doing music. It's because it is Saturday night. That's why.
[01:11:37] Craig Carton Because if you do mess up...
[01:11:39] Little Wayne Because you don't want to mess up because it's Saturday Night Live.
[01:11:43] Craig Carton Yeah, well, did you ever ask them? Hey, put me in a sk-
[01:11:45] Little Wayne Not at all actually when I was told that I'd be a part of a skit I was like I had to make sure I'm out like you sure you know like you shouldn't want me to be a part of that and once I found out it was true I was beyond happy
[01:11:58] Kevin Kay How was the cue card guy?
[01:12:02] Little Wayne It was cool because he actually was he would come and ask me because I wrote the rap right so he had came and asked me Did I get that right that part right here?
[01:12:09] Craig Carton You gotta write down your words.
[01:12:10] Little Wayne Cheers. Yeah.
[01:12:11] Craig Carton Which, by the way, is a good way to remember the word.
[01:12:13] Little Wayne Yeah
[01:12:14] Craig Carton So, look, I could talk to your life story for hours, we don't have hours here. So, I teased you as saying the guy mostly responsible, singularly responsible, for SpongeBob SquarePants. So, obviously, years after you're a cue card guy at Saturday Night Live, at some point, you become a big executive, and now you're running Spike Network, right? I want you to walk us through the day when some guy comes into your office, which I'm sure happened many days, and has a pitch for you. And this pitch happens to be for a cartoon.
[01:12:46] Kevin Kay Go. Okay, so it was Nickelodeon, right? Right, before Spike. Before Spike, I was in Nickelodeons, I was the head of development. And so Steve Hillenburg, who created SpongeBob SquarePants, he was originally a storyboard artist in our studio, in our animation studio. And we loved him. And there was a show called Rocko's Modern Life that was produced by somebody else, Joe Murray. But it was, it had a rough start. And Joe was like really talented guy and a great artist, but he wasn't a great showrunner. So, we had Steve, who we really believed in, and we gave him the job of helping, in the second season, run Rocco's Modern Life, and he did a great job, but it was just too late. The audience had not while, once they were out, they were and they didn't come back. But we loved Steve, so we said, here's some money, we want you to create a pilot for us, write the script, and, he did. And he, it was originally called Sponge Boy. Sponge Boy? Sponge Boy! And we couldn't clear it. Right, so Sponge Boy didn't clear somebody, the weird thing, somebody owns Sponge Boy. You never know who owns stuff. Yeah, you never know, right?
[01:13:51] Craig Carton Have you experienced that? Like you create something you created it like you take it from anyone
[01:13:59] Little Wayne You can ask Fave, I call Fave a lad, I'm going to just think of something that's Fave. See if it's trademarked. If not, get a trademark. Here's a nice trademark. Really? What? What brand is it?
[01:14:09] Craig Carton Well, you shouldn't have tried to trademark the carton show. First mistake. That's how that happens frequently.
[01:14:15] Kevin Kay So, Spongeboy didn't clear. They came back and he said, I have another title and I love the title. And I said, okay, what is it? He was sitting in the office with my development guy and me. And he said okay, Spongboy Ahoy!
[01:14:30] Craig Carton FUNJBOY AHOI!
[01:14:31] Kevin Kay Ahoy and I just jokingly looked at him because I didn't like the title and I said yeah get out of my office Come back on something else. Yeah, it kind of scared Steve So a week later the development executive calls me because we have a new title I think you're gonna like it and I was like, okay go and where's Steve and he goes hey He's a little afraid of you now Have you seen an episode like No, no, no. This was this was when we were writing the script. This is concept. Okay, and Robert skull who is the development guy said It's we think sponge Bob square pants And I kind of thought about it for a second and he goes because he's a sponge named Bob and I was like I get it And he has square and he's like, what do you think? I was Like I love it and I did I thought it was first Larry's on first I was I'm in and then I went around to my boss and everybody else and all the people that Had to weigh in on a decision and nobody liked it. And we did it anyway.
[01:15:31] Craig Carton It was your career on the line
[01:15:33] Kevin Kay I wouldn't say my career was on the line, but it was like, it was a big bet. And people loved Steve and had a lot of faith in his creative ability. Was he the voice? So here's the thing, so then we wrote the script, and then we loved the script. And he said, I wanna come in and pitch it. And he came into our conference room with an aquarium, and in the aquarium were all the characters. There was SpongeBob, there were all of the characters were in there, and he did all the voices, and he did the entire thing, and it was unbelievable. And my boss, Albie Hecht, and I were sitting there, and we just did everything we could not to laugh. Because we just didn't want to give it up. Because that's what development people who are assholes do, right? We just didn't want to gave it up, and when it was over and he was done, we said, excuse us for a second, and we walked out of the conference room and just burst into laughter. We loved it, and we walk back in and we were like, Steve, let's make the pilot. And he was like, oh my God, I was sure you guys hated it. But you don't want-
[01:16:29] Craig Carton to laugh in front of him because you don't want to pay him?
[01:16:33] Little Wayne That's what they do, that's what you do. You don't want to give it up, you know? And then like, I don't know, let me think about it.
[01:16:40] Craig Carton I hate that. Oh, man. This poor guy like he puts his soul into it. Yeah, it is funny
[01:16:49] Kevin Kay What a dick!
[01:16:51] Craig Carton Alright, so we're going to fund a pilot.
[01:16:54] Kevin Kay We're going to fund the pilot. He makes the pilot the pilot is brilliant. It's like seven of the best minutes of animation you've ever seen
[01:17:00] Craig Carton So the pie was 7 minutes.
[01:17:02] Kevin Kay But it was brilliant and we greenlit the show and it did nothing. Literally the first season was like people liked it but nobody really watched it and it was kind of disappointing for us and we were worried about it but we were like really behind Steve and we said like let's do another season and in the second season it just broke loose. Any reason for that? I think the audience just needed to catch up. I think they needed to see a few episodes and then make their decision about whether they liked it, they cared about it, they loved the character.
[01:17:36] Craig Carton Which I assume that's I'm sure music's the same. It's kind of rare. Like if you don't hit in year one Most networks probably say all right move on to the next pilot. Yeah. Yeah, my music's probably similar, right?
[01:17:47] Little Wayne Not today. So you have more- Back then it was definitely that, yeah, you know, if this isn't, you put a single out, that single doesn't work you. If you have the opportunity to have a record label that say, okay, we can move on and they're going to put some money behind it and go to another song or whatever, other than that. But today, people put their whole album out, they don't even put singles out, they just put the whole album on. The album's done. Figure out which one you like, whatever song they see is gaining the most streams or whatever. That's
[01:18:15] Craig Carton That's going to be frustrating as an artist, right?
[01:18:18] Little Wayne Nah, I mean, because I've been doing it for so long, I'm old too. Because I've done it for, so I love to adapt. I love the changes. You do. Because it's a challenge for me.
[01:18:28] Craig Carton Right, and obviously you have a doubt. Your music's changed, you've changed, that's natural. So year two it becomes a big hit.
[01:18:34] Kevin Kay Becomes a big hit and guess what in year three it the merchandise comes out and it sells four point two billion dollars I'm sorry yeah yeah yeah point two billion dollars worth of merchandise in a year in a third year alone just the third year four point 2 billion dollars and guess what everybody liked the title then
[01:18:57] Craig Carton title ever. I'm going to make the assumption poor Steve did not have a great deal by year three.
[01:19:03] Kevin Kay Well, I'll tell you a story about Steve. So Steve, you know, Steve did not have a good deal. It was one of those deals that was, you know, like it was all in the back end and he was never going to see any of that money. And the way those deals were written, you were never going see any that money, Steve didn't care that much, to be honest. But when we knew that the story was going to break in the Wall Street Journal, that he was going to make over $4 billion, I said to Albie, I said, you know, we need to like do something for him. Because he. The way his deal is written, he's gonna read that and he's going to quit. And I would too because he's not gonna see any of that money.
[01:19:37] Craig Carton So I assume he's making...
[01:19:40] Kevin Kay Millions? No, he was probably making close to a million dollars a season, right? So let's just get this, let's get this satire. And by the way, maybe not even that much.
[01:19:48] Craig Carton The creator, let's just say millions, easy number, made a million bucks a year. The network made 4.2 billion. That's right. That just doesn't seem right, Kevin. So I wasn't right.
[01:20:01] Kevin Kay I went to Albie and I said we had to do something for him like we need to do something for you because he's going to read that story in the Wall Street Journal and he's gonna quit and I would too if I were him and so we took him out to dinner we went to we went up to Viacom's heads and we said we got to do something from they all said no the deal is the deal the way it's written is the way goes and that's he signed the deal and that that and we say well quit and then you don't have a show right and you're I'm gonna make another billion dollars on the show. So we convinced them to write him a check. And we went, we took him out to dinner at the Ivy at the Shore here in Santa Monica.
[01:20:37] Craig Carton You and a bunch of executives.
[01:20:38] Kevin Kay Me and Al, Albie took him out, took Steve out to dinner. So the three of you were at dinner. We were at diner.
[01:20:42] Craig Carton He doesn't know what the dinner's about.
[01:20:44] Kevin Kay He thinks we're just telling him congratulations on a good season. And we say, okay, we want you to know that this story is coming out in the Wall Street Journal. And the show has made over $4 billion in merchandise. He's just sitting across from us being Steve just eating and he's like, wow, that's a lot of money. And we said, but the way your deal is written, you're not gonna get any money right away. It's like. Way down the line, but we wanted to make sure that you understand how much we love you and how proud we are of the show.
[01:21:15] Craig Carton Stop there for a sec. I've got a number in mind, Wayne.
[01:21:22] Little Wayne Your number is going to be higher.
[01:21:26] Kevin Kay No, Steve got to check.
[01:21:29] Craig Carton All right, so you bring a check and you present the check to him at dinner. Oh, okay. Okay, now hold on. What do you think the check is for? What do you think the chair is for?
[01:21:36] Little Wayne Okay, dessert. Yeah.
[01:21:37] Craig Carton Yeah, you have nice dinner, everything's great, by the way, big article, we made $4.2 billion. We want to thank you for your service to Viacom. If you had to guess, what do you think that check was? What do you that check should have been?
[01:21:51] Little Wayne I don't wanna guess what I think it was. I don't wanna guess that at all. Yeah, I said I don't wanna guess.
[01:21:58] Craig Carton Let's start small. It's gotta be a seven figure check minimum. Is that a fair guess? It's a fair check. Okay, 4.2 billion, he's making a million a year. I mean, please tell me you gave this man $10 million.
[01:22:11] Kevin Kay No, no, we couldn't convince Viacom to do that. We gave him two million. And by the way, we hand it in the check and he goes, do you mind if I look at that? And we said, of course, he gently opened it up, looked at it and burst into tears.
[01:22:23] Little Wayne I was going to say, I was gonna say that, bro. I was kind of say, I was go to say you take me to dinner and you could, and all you, you speaking about 4.2 and yeah, we can speak about it all day, but you say you got 2 million right now and that's right there in front of me, right there. That's 2 million, right? If I don't have 2 million. Now I do. Oh my God. What? I'm not worried about that 4 point, point what? Yeah. That was awesome And then you said I was from merchandising though, right?
[01:22:55] Kevin Kay Licensing merchandise.
[01:22:56] Little Wayne Like you say I would have looked at it as well. You didn't say that was from the show Got it, you know
[01:23:02] Craig Carton You know, you would have been practical about it. Yeah. Yeah, like the light. Well, that's also based on your 30 years of success This poor guy is just some dude writing cartoon stuff and he's just having success for the first time But I get what you're saying. Were they tears of joy or tears?
[01:23:16] Kevin Kay They were tears of joy because, and we didn't really even understand why I was crying, but he was. And he said, you know, Karen, his wife was just diagnosed with breast cancer and I don't know what's going to happen. And, you, know, he had two small children and he's like, so he goes, this makes all the difference in the world for me. So that was, you didn't know that, but that was a special moment for him, but even for us. Is he still alive today? No, Steve. Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know that. Yeah, ALS, Lou Gehrig's disease. Oh, my Lord. Yeah, it was a horrible. Horrible.
[01:23:52] Craig Carton Does his family get residuals?
[01:23:54] Kevin Kay Uh, I'm sure that they do. I don't know. Like, do you think that it's- I'm, I, I am sure that the-
[01:23:58] Craig Carton Are they like a wealthy family? Oh yeah. So at some point maybe Viacom didn't make them whole, but at some that back end finally happened. Yes.
[01:24:07] Kevin Kay Absolutely.
[01:24:08] Craig Carton So without you though, we never hear Spongebob. Did Vi come give you a check at dinner at the Ivy? No, they did not. You so good? I got a good bonus that year. I'm 4.2 Bill, you muscle. I got good bonus, but it wasn't. Were you like, you cheap, 50 grand's not paying shit? I would have been livid about that, Wayne.
[01:24:28] Kevin Kay Do you want to know like I've never told this story to anybody except my wife This is so crazy But you would the bonus structure was such that like you couldn't get more than a 200% bonus But it was based on your salary, but you could you could get a 200 percent bonus That was the maximum we had a great year in Nickelodeon because of spongebob So we got like a hundred and ninety percent bonuses everybody in the company got a hundred ninety percent Everybody was so thankful and it was great But Albie, my boss, gave me another additional bonus on top of that. He had the right to do it, but he gave it to me. And so I went over 200%. I went to 215%. And I got a call, I won't say from who, but from one of the senior leaders at Viacom, and they said, you have to give back 15% of your bonus. Because 200 is the limit. And did you give it back? Yeah, I had no choice.
[01:25:23] Little Wayne Yeah, I would imagine so.
[01:25:27] Craig Carton What?! Give it back! Come get it!
[01:25:30] Kevin Kay He put some boxing gloves on, put it back my ass. And Tom Preston, who was the CEO at the time, called me and he actually heard about it and was lovely enough to call me and say, I understand you gave back some of your bonus, that's a big thing. And I'll find a way to make it up to you someday. I was gonna say.
[01:25:46] Little Wayne I would have looked at it as they're testing me and they're trying to see what decision I would make and I would try my best to make the right decision.
[01:25:54] Craig Carton As a company guy. You can count on me, you can trust me, and the thought is they'll do right by me at Christmas.
[01:25:59] Little Wayne You make the right decision. I would imagine it was it was testing me to probably put me into a higher position and think yeah We can trust this guy
[01:26:07] Craig Carton Right. Did that happen?
[01:26:09] Little Wayne Hi, I did ok.
[01:26:12] Craig Carton Your next biggest hit is Yellowstone. Spike becomes Paramount, let me just back up for one second. When you guys created Spike, a network for men, we're gonna have fighting and girls and action movies, right, I recall within the first few months of Spike being announced that Spike Lee sued you guys, saying that you took his name and you had to pay him. Correct? Okay.
[01:26:38] Kevin Kay Yes, Spike Lee Pseudos.
[01:26:42] Little Wayne It was Ben Craig. Say it!
[01:26:44] Kevin Kay No, that's a true story that I have. So here's the story. So we, you know, when we're trying to name the network, came up with a bunch of names that were rejected by the lawyers. They said, so-and-so will sue you. I said, I want, because I worked for Letterman, I wanted to name it Dave TV. And they said, no, Dave will sue. And I said no, they're not going to sue me. He likes me. But like, no. He'll sue the company. Dave's out. A whole bunch of things. No, no no. They'll sue you, we said Spike, because we thought Spike and the lawyers came back and they said yeah, that no problem. So we're having, Tanya Lee, Spike's wife, actually worked for Nickelodeon at the time. She was a freelance producer, and she was doing like, you know, spots and stuff for us. We're having lunch. Ebony and I are having lunch at a restaurant nearby. And as we're walking out, Tania turns to us, and she says, oh, you guys have a big problem. And we're like, what's the problem? And she goes, well, Spike is really unhappy that you stole his name. No. No. And he runs out, he's out, he's gone and he's getting a cab, right? Or getting in a car or something. And I was like, what? And she goes, yeah, you'll be getting a letter from Johnny Cochran. What? And sure enough, the next day, a letter arrives on Golden Ball Stationery. Johnny Cochron's name is so big.
[01:27:55] Kevin Kay It's Johnny Cochran!
[01:27:58] Kevin Kay And on the bottom, there's like a thing that like, you know, Spike is suing you for misappropriating his name and blah, blah, and yeah.
[01:28:08] Little Wayne Oh, Spike Lee TV. Correct. I wish you'd been there. Am I, am I, I'm with you.
[01:28:15] Craig Carton I'm with you. Tell me you're writing a check. Okay, so we go to court.
[01:28:20] Kevin Kay So we go to court, he's represented by Johnnie Cochran, we're in downtown New York in some court building, the judge, every day the judge comes out that we're in court and he looks around the room and he sees the Viacom lawyers in there, a bunch of faceless nameless guys, right, corporate guys, and then he looks over and he sees Johnnie and Cochrane and he's like, good morning Johnny, and I'm like, we are so I was like, oh my god. We are so f- And we get to the point that somebody's got to like testify to the damages that we claim that we took because we had to take all the name down and change everything. And it was $38 million was what we said. And Albie says to me, well, the head of marketing is a young guy. He doesn't want to testify. So you're going to have to do it. And I was like, I'm going to be cross examined by John Cochran. I don't think so, but I did. And so and I and I actually we weren't this wasn't
[01:29:12] Craig Carton just thrown out of court right away like exactly like with Wayne like it wasn't Spike Lee TV I think you'd have a claim if it was there was spike the dog there was spike
[01:29:21] Little Wayne I swear to God, that's what I was thinking about. I was like, what about Spike the Dog? I was, like, one of my favorite characters. I had the T-shirt. We had a producer who worked for us.
[01:29:29] Kevin Kay He sued him also. Spike Jonze didn't sue us. He testified for us. But yeah, so we actually ended up settling with him and it was like. Settling only. But it was really like a tiny little settlement. Like he had a pilot at Showtime, a pilot script and they agreed to make the pilot. And because he would have.
[01:29:48] Little Wayne But Johnny Cochran like every company that has Wayne.
[01:29:54] Craig Carton You're always going to be busy for a long time, but chug, chug chug. That is bad. Crazy.
[01:29:59] Kevin Kay It was bad.
[01:30:01] Craig Carton Yeah, so he got a pile of greenlit. He got a pie and no one had to write a check. No So I guess it was smart that he sued you I guess yes
[01:30:08] Kevin Kay I don't know. I don, all I know is I was terrified. Risky. I was terrifying to be cross-examined. And we ended up hiring David Boyce, who was the guy that did the Florida election, the George Bush Al Gore election. The hanging Chad thing, whatever it was. Yeah, because I said, like, we're going to lose unless we have a lawyer that the judge, like, actually knows. Knows. So when David Boyce who you know came in from like making peace in Yugoslavia or something he came in got off the plane in his black suit and sneakers and he stood he didn't even sit with the lawyers at the table stood in the back of the court and the judge came in and Johnny was standing in the front and he looked and he said good morning Johnny and then he looked around and he was like oh and you could tell and he was like hey David and everything changed. Changed the game for you. Changed again.
[01:30:53] Craig Carton So he sees you and the whole thing gets settled. You guys, one of the biggest things you did at the time was Greenlight UFC fighting on Spike Network, which I know you're back in the fight, I'm going to get to that in a second. There are people that tell the story, and Dana White's one of them, because he still loves you. Didn't love Philip DeMont all that much. Philippe Dumont, this Jersey guy pretending he was French, and fucked the whole deal up. In any event, sorry for another day. But you do deserve some love of credit. That if Spike TV doesn't put UFC on its network, maybe UFC doesn't become the juggernaut it becomes. Is that fair statement? Is that fair to say that?
[01:31:31] Kevin Kay Actually, I think Lorenzo Fertitta has said that if Spike TV hadn't happened, because they had been all over town pitching UFC and nobody was buying it. And we were kind of like, look, we were a little cable network. We weren't a broadcast network or anything like that, but we were the network for men. So they came to us and we had a good meeting. And, but Lorenzo said, you know, at that point that if we hadn't done it, they would have sold it. They would have closed up shop. So it never would have happened. You know the truth is they came in and they said they wanted to put fights on spike And I was like I can't do that because you know it's a steel cage And there's blood all over the canvas and I has no way I'm going to Budweiser or Miller, and they're gonna put their logo That bloody canvas like Let's blood Dana It's steel cage with and nobody understood like what was actually going on like that It was a discipline and athleticism and all the things that's great about it And they came in and Dana was like pounding on my desk and screaming about like, we gotta put fights on Spike TV. And I was like, we can't do that. Like John McCain called it human cock fighting. Right. You know, we cant do that because I can't get any advertisers. I said, if you guys would just like think about, is there another way in? And they, to their credit, they came back like a couple of months later and said, you know, we have this reality show, The Ultimate Fighter. And they had hired-
[01:32:53] Craig Carton That was their idea, not your idea.
[01:32:54] Kevin Kay It was not my idea, but they had hired Craig Peligian, who was a producer that was on Survivor for a bunch of years. And it was actually Craig and Dana came up with that idea.
[01:33:03] Craig Carton Do you think Ultimate Fighter is responsible for you ultimately then green lighting putting fights on?
[01:33:09] Kevin Kay The first season of The Ultimate Fighter was Forrest Griffin and Stefan Bonner. That fight was everything. I mean that's the fight that saved the sport in my opinion, right?
[01:33:21] Little Wayne He's a huge UFC fan. If I was still living off of that, man. Just off of, like, just off of Adelaide.
[01:33:27] Kevin Kay That one fight, you had changed lives. It changed everything. And then, you know, off and running and we... Was that the moment when you realized we have a hit on our hands? Unquestionably. I mean, we had put it behind the W because we had Raw on the WWE so and Vince, you know had till 1108 like he that was 9 to 1108. He had those eight minutes and so when Lorenzo came in I said we don't have any money to do this. That was the other problem The budget was already spent for the next year. I said, we don't have any money he said I'll pay for it and they put up 10 million bucks to make 10 episodes of the ultimate fighter and that was how it all started and And if it hadn't happened, they would have closed up the shop and we wouldn't be looking at MMHA at all.
[01:34:13] Craig Carton They've been sold twice. It's like a multi-billion dollar entity. And if they don't create a reality show, we never know about half the guys that we all love watching Fight. So, I'm going to get back to the fight because I know you're back in the fight. I'm gonna go back to it in a second. But obviously, Spike ones are becoming paramount, famously. So the Spike thing ran its course. And then someone walks into your office one day and says, I've got a show about cowboys.
[01:34:38] Kevin Kay Well, so Bob Backage walked in my office, who was the CEO of iCom at the time, and said, I need to change one of these networks into a scripted network. And he's like, one of yours. And I was running Spike, CMT, and TV Land. So I said, oh, TV Land, and he said, no, no, there's not enough distribution. TV Land is not in HD, with that type of work. I think you're right.
[01:34:56] Craig Carton At the time we were just showing old sick arms and shit like that.
[01:34:58] Kevin Kay Yeah, and they had a couple of shows, but it was mostly old sitcoms. He said, no, and I said, oh, okay, well CMT goes, eh, CMT's too small and I think there's something there. I like the country music, so I was like, oh, really, Spike then? And he's like, yeah, let's change Spike to Paramount now. But Spike was your baby. Spike was my baby. And he said, let us change it to Paramound TV. And I was, like. Uh, okay. And I said, well, what would it be? And he goes, well I want to do scripted and don't you want to scripted? And I was like, yeah, I want you to script it. I've always wanted to script. And we had done like a little like Blue Mountain State was like a scripted show that we did that was like
[01:35:32] Craig Carton I was actually on that once.
[01:35:33] Kevin Kay Yeah, that's right. I'd love to film out on the stage.
[01:35:36] Craig Carton Best episode of all time, they claim. Of course. I'm not the guy, many people say. It was the episode with the missing badger. And the guy that came into, he was on my radio show, became Reacher, Jack Reacher. That dude is all jacked, I forget his name.
[01:35:50] Kevin Kay Alan Richson.
[01:35:51] Craig Carton So he was a contestant American Idol. Mm-hmm And he was like the the dumb jock in Blue Mountain State and now he's Jack Reacher What did he do in American Idol? He sang for Paul Abdul and John Huckubother. Are you guys really saying? Yeah, not great. Like I don't think he got past the auditions But and he like sat on Paul Abdul's lap. Yeah stories are that I don't want to start rumors here
[01:36:13] Kevin Kay Now he's a huge star. He's a HUGE star. He's on everything.
[01:36:18] Craig Carton You saw the video a couple months ago when he got in a fight with his neighbor He was riding like motorcycles with his kids and the neighbors like get those bikes out of my neighbor Yeah, he's like pop that's what you have to say. That's the guy you took over. That the guy
[01:36:31] Little Wayne That's a guy. He can sing?
[01:36:33] Kevin Kay Not great. So, we did that show, but then it was like, I wanted to do scripted and Bob said, we're going to do six scripted series. And I said, great. So, you know, we started thinking about that. And you know I, I know we're not supposed to say Harvey Weinstein's name, but you know, I'd done a lot of business with Harvey and the Weinstein company. I bought a lot movies from them over the years and stuff. And we did some documentaries together. And I, said to Harvey, like, look, I got this, I'm going to script it and I need something big and what do you got? And he started pitching me with Helen Mirren and I was like, no, I think she's an amazing actress but this is Spike becoming Paramount Network.
[01:37:12] Kevin Kay Thank you, Helen Mirren.
[01:37:16] Kevin Kay What do you got? And he said, wow, I got this script, it's at Prime, at Amazon, and it's by this guy, Taylor Sheridan, I love him, you know, I think you might like it, I can see if I can get it out of there. And I said, well, can I read the script? And it was me and Keith Cox, who was the head of development. And can I the script, and we went home that night, we got the script a couple days later, Harvey did his magic and got it out on Amazon. And we read it and we're like, this is it, you know. Or
[01:37:44] Craig Carton Is Kevin Costner attached to you yet? He was not.
[01:37:45] Kevin Kay No, he was not, and Taylor wanted Jeff Bridges because he had worked with Jeff on Hell or High Water and he really liked him and he thought he would be great and I was kind of like, listen, he's a great actor, but I'm thinking about the marketing and I'm thinking about poster and I think about who is going to be on a horse with a cowboy hat and I am not seeing Jeff Bridgess, like I could see Jeff Bridget, but then Suddenly, I was like... What about Costner, can we get Costner? And we did get him, and you know. What was that process like? It was painful because Kevin Costner doesn't like to do TV, apparently. He's a movie actor. And he had done the Hatfields and McCoys, and he had a really bad experience, it was on A&E, and he did not have a good experience. I think it was a low budget thing, and he didn't have a great time, and he really did not want to do T.V. Again. But I think he read the script and something about it appealed to him, and he said yes. When you get pitched.
[01:38:52] Craig Carton On a script, is it episode one and that's all you get?
[01:38:56] Kevin Kay And in that case, mostly you don't even get that. You get a treatment for what the series is. We'll tell you a little bit about episode one, usually a lot more about episode 1, and then we'll tell like what the next episodes are, like synopsises. In this case, Taylor, being Taylor, had written the script when he was, because he was on, what was the, Sons of Anarchy. He played the sheriff's assistant, right? The deputy sheriff. But he had a lot of time to spend, you know, off the set in his trailer. So he had written that script and Mare of Kingstown. And so we got to read the script, which is unusual. And it was the first hour. And it's when he wrote it. Yeah, he wrote in in the trailer. Wow. Yeah, yeah.
[01:39:40] Craig Carton So the biggest show of the last decade. Yeah. He wrote in his trailer, while he was doing Sons of Attica. That's crazy, right? Where's the weirdest place you wrote a song? Like, it's not always in the studio, I imagine, right.
[01:39:52] Little Wayne No, um, I don't You don't write anymore, right? Yeah, but the i'm a scenery the scenery matters to me. So, uh, Snowy mountains the mountains that's because i'm from new orleans, right i've never seen it I thought it didn't exist in reality Really like I didn't think those buildings were that big in new york till I got there. So my scenery Is the snowy mountain snowy mountains peak?
[01:40:14] Craig Carton That motivates you?
[01:40:15] Little Wayne Like, creatively. It makes my mind go to places where it's not just the norm.
[01:40:20] Craig Carton Really? That's fascinating. So you go to like Lake Tahoe?
[01:40:23] Little Wayne I make it up in place, but I go to Colorado a lot. I just go by, I go by own.
[01:40:28] Craig Carton You see Dion yeah, and you'll hang out there and for whatever reason the snowy mountains
[01:40:34] Little Wayne Spend about, spend about two weeks in a nice hotel with a great view, yeah, and just...
[01:40:40] Craig Carton I never knew that about you.
[01:40:41] Little Wayne That's sad and I put you in the right mindset. I just love where my mind goes when I'm there because I don't, you don't think about the, my mind don't go to the cliche. Right. Because I'm not seeing what I'm used to seeing.
[01:40:53] Craig Carton Right, totally out of your experience in life growing up. You never saw snow or mountains like that. I never knew that. That's awesome. What's the biggest hit you did based on the snowy mountains?
[01:41:05] Little Wayne Uh, I've written whole albums there. In two weeks? That's amazing.
[01:41:12] Craig Carton I'm going to get back to Kevin in a second. If you had to take a wild guess, how many songs do you have that you have not released?
[01:41:20] Little Wayne Oh man, that would be in the millions, Greg. I'm sorry? That would be the millions. In the millions? It's like Prince. I have Prince, I have a lot of unreleased Prince music too. Really? Yeah. Wow. It was a gift from Fave. Yeah, it was a give, like his catalog.
[01:41:38] Craig Carton Of unreleased print songs. You have to have me over one day to have a listening party for that.
[01:41:42] Little Wayne Yeah, faith, faith means you need it.
[01:41:44] Craig Carton He's never invited me over.
[01:41:45] Little Wayne They've worked with Prince and Mike.
[01:41:47] Craig Carton And Michael?
[01:41:48] Little Wayne Fabed it.
[01:41:49] Craig Carton We're gonna talk after this. Sorry, Kevin. It's fair because he's here. I'm learning things I don't want to learn today. I love it. Yeah, all right, so the Greenlight Yellowstone. The Greenlight yellowstone. It's a hit from John.
[01:41:59] Kevin Kay A few episodes in, it's pretty clear it's going to be a hit.
[01:42:02] Craig Carton And then as the story goes, you're not there much longer after Yellowstone gets released, right? Yeah. Pardon me for asking, were you fired? You could say that. Okay, I'm gonna say it.
[01:42:14] Kevin Kay So I was let go I'd like to think of it as and it was time really to be honest But you just gave them their biggest
[01:42:21] Craig Carton of all time one of the biggest hits in television history yeah yeah does anyone ever call you and say hey we messed up you want to come back too much ego yeah is there any love of you where you're like
[01:42:33] Kevin Kay I hope y'all don't fails? No, no, no. No, I'm happy for them and I'm happy for Taylor. Taylor's an incredibly talented guy. He's unbelievably prolific. He is also unbelievably difficult, but that comes with the territory in a lot of cases. That level of genius is hard to manage. He knows what he wants and he doesn't want to hear anything from anybody and it was fun to try to communicate with him for a while. But I have nothing but respect for him and that team that put that show together. And I love the show. I think the show is great.
[01:43:04] Craig Carton In your career was there was there a show you ever passed on that became a big kid to you like damn I wish I didn't pass on it
[01:43:10] Kevin Kay I don't know, not that I remember. Yeah, I mean Nickelodeon and I wasn't part of this decision passed on Harry Potter. Excuse me? Wow. Yeah. I did. Because they felt- And you got fired? Yeah. Well, so did the guy that passed on the Harry Potter, but they just thought it wasn't a brand fit. It wasn't, we don't do those kinds of like fantasy type of things, you know? And you know, they regretted it. Yeah, yeah, I would say so.
[01:43:39] Craig Carton That's crazy. Yeah, let me come back to the fight game. Yeah. Obviously you have a new project You had great success with UFC on spike you guys and pivoted as a company and bought Bellator Which was not as successful as UFC But in its own right created a bunch of guys that went to USA from there. I had great successful I think Michael Chandler was the first star if I remember correctly. Yeah right. Yeah I also remember you coming to me about 15 episodes into MMA Uncensored Live, and you said, you can't talk about UFC anymore. Well, and I go, Kevin, it's like telling the guy hosting NFL today, you cannot talk about the NFL. And we had a battle, and we had to compromise. I know, I remember this. Our compromise, because we were a hit. We're about maybe half a minute, 600,000 viewers, which at that time was the biggest MMA show of all time. And I was not an MMA expert by a long shot, but Dana liked me. Spike liked me, because we had a holding deal for a couple years, and he comes to me, he's like, I'm not putting any more money in that asshole's pocket, because Philippe Dumont was an asshole, and kind of screwed the punch up for the relationship between Viacom and UFC. So the deal Kevin and I made was that I could talk about fights that happened last weekend, but I couldn't promote the fights that were happening in 48 hours. So I looked at him and I said, so this show's over, he goes, yeah, pretty much. Hahahaha!
[01:45:02] Kevin Kay Well, but just to be clear, that was not my decision. I know.
[01:45:06] Craig Carton I know, I know!
[01:45:07] Kevin Kay I was told by Philippe Demond, who had a grudge against the UFC for leaving and because he couldn't get along with Dana or Lorenzo or Frank, that, you know, we could not anymore promote their pay-per-views. And so I was the messenger. I didn't agree with it, but I had no choice. It was my boss.
[01:45:28] Craig Carton It was the best compromise I could have gotten.
[01:45:30] Kevin Kay It was a good compromise.
[01:45:31] Craig Carton Yes, you guys are going to Bellator. We know how that story ends and now all these years later. You're back Yeah, tell me what you're doing now
[01:45:39] Kevin Kay So, Scott Coker, who ran StrikeForce and had a really successful run there, built a lot of stars, including Ronda and Gina and Frank Shamrock and, you know, I mean, the list goes on and on. Alistair over... I mean the list, goes on and I thought was the most fighter-friendly organization. You know, if you look back at it, StrikeForces actually 50% of their revenue went to the fighters. And that is an extraordinary number. I don't know what the UFC is, but I can guarantee you it's not 50%. It's far from it, right? So Scott has always, he's an eighth degree taekwondo black belt. His motto is always fighters first. That's what he cares about. And I have a lot of respect for him. I loved working with him. And he, after Bellator, I convinced him to come to Bellator. He didn't really want to do it. It was like a conversation that He was like, I don't even understand, like I'm a promoter, I own my own business, I own Strike Force, I sold it, I didn't want to sell it. You know, it just, Showtime wasn't going to pick it up again, so the partners decided they needed to sell it, he made a lot of money. I said, come to Bellator, I need you, I didn't like the guy that was running it before that. You know. Likewise. Oh, ha ha ha!
[01:46:54] Craig Carton Some Swedish prick, Bjorn something or other.
[01:46:58] Kevin Kay And so Scott came and we had an amazing time working together. So cut to Bellator, nobody knows what to do with it. It gets sold to the PFL, Scott had left and he played golf for a couple of years. And then he called me one day and he said, I'm gonna get back into business and start another fight promotion. And I thought like, yeah. And he's like, would you come on as an advisor? And I was like, yeah, I would definitely help any way that I can. And Wade Davis who was the CFO of Viacom and also went on to be the CEO of Univision also came on as an advisor Steve Moscoe who's the president of Sony TV came out as a good so really good people and You know along the way, you know as Scott and I continued to talk about it He said, you Know, would you like to come work on this like not just as an adviser but actually work with me on this And I said, what's the role? And we sort of decided chief content officer would be a good role for me because I love to tell stories and I love fighting. And I think that the fighters are underserved. And if you look at the UFC, it's like I really actually think that at this point, the fighters aren't the most important thing. They're just there, right? They're there. And because pay-per-view went away and it needed to go away because there was a business that wasn't really viable anymore. But you've kind of lost the thread of the story because there was always this huge marketing around each pay-per-view and there were only like 10 or 12 pay-previews per year and you knew what was coming and you were excited about it. Well, that's all gone now. They just, they're owned by Paramount. And it just feels like it's just one steady flow and the only promotion for fights just starts at the weigh-ins now where. You know, these guys like, you know, fake fights. Facing it, facing it. They face off and they push and they shove and then, you know, that's kind of where the promotion starts. And I don't know. I watched a Shawn Strickland, Chiamev fight and, you know, Shawn Strichland, who was like, I'm going to kill that mother f***er. He's going to die in the cage and I hate his guts and blah, blah, blah, and blah. And then he, you know, they fight. He wins the fight. Right after. Yeah. Right after he takes the mic and he goes, I'm so sorry. I was just promoting a fight. Yes, I was like I feel lied to, I feel deceived. It's not the way I want to be. And I think this is really respectful and truthful to the MMA spirit. I think that Coker has that. I love telling stories. I think telling stories about fighters and kind of building up them and into the stars that they are and the discipline and the honor that goes into sport is like exciting for me. Well, we wish you the best of luck with it. So thank you.
[01:49:38] Craig Carton You seem reinvigorated by-
[01:49:39] Kevin Kay I am reinvigorated by it. I'm very excited.
[01:49:41] Craig Carton Have you ever fought? No. You don't look like it. I'm not even fighting. I'm just saying. A lot of people like fighting. I just wonder if you ever got in a fight. You ever punch Dumont in the face? I would like to have. We could probably set that up. You'd have to find them first. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I know he's on France. I know that much. Well, look, it's great seeing you. So great to see you, too. Thank you for giving me the opportunity you gave me all those years ago. I've never forgotten that, because you believed in me before a lot of people did from a TV sense. And we want to thank you guys. Wayne, do you have anything else you want to say?
[01:50:13] Little Wayne This guy is awesome. You liked it, right? I learned a lot today. Thank you.
[01:50:16] Kevin Kay You are, you are, I am a huge fan and you are unbelievably talented. I appreciate it. Wonderful. Thank you. So thank you for everything. You've made a huge difference in so many people's lives, mine included.
[01:50:27] Craig Carton Him, you know, not so much. I think the first event you guys have, perhaps you guys write a big check and ask when to perform. That might be something that would work. That would work, Kevin K everybody, Little Wayne, Craig Carton, this is the Joint Venture Show. We have much more coming your way throughout the year and thank you so much for watching another episode of The Joint Ventures.