Heidi [00:00:00]:
Fernanda Martinelli had a LinkedIn post blow up. While viral might be a little bit of an overstatement, it got quite a lot of engagement considering her 623 followers. Getting 216 likes and 26 comments was quite a success, but likes and comments don't mean much. What really mattered was that her post got her 3 discovery calls with brands, one of which turned into an amazing client. Luckily, Fernanda had already binged my entire FAST program right before, and she knew what to do with all these new leads. Fernanda and I talked about how she led the discovery call and put together her proposal to get an immediate yes from the client. We also chat about how she turned one project with the client into another one using a simple strategy that I teach. You're going to love this episode.
Heidi [00:00:44]:
Let's get to it. I am so excited to hear about everything that's going on.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:00:50]:
It's been, like, crazy. Like, honestly, I'm still, like sometimes I, like, sit down. I'm like, oh, this is happening. Like, it's like and I had a talk with my husband, I think it was, like, a month ago, and I was I don't know why I was telling him, oh, honey, I'm trying. And he's like, no. You're doing it. Like, you are doing it. Like and he made me realize, it's like, yeah.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:01:14]:
I've been doing it for a long time. So
Heidi [00:01:17]:
Yeah. Good. He sounds like an amazing man.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:01:21]:
Yeah. Yeah. He is. I'm lucky. I'm very lucky.
Heidi [00:01:26]:
Yeah. Okay. So, I wanna talk about so many things. So I know Yeah. Sure. I don't know a ton. I know you came to some of our freelance trainings earlier this year, and then you jumped into FAST about two and a half months ago, I think. Yeah.
Heidi [00:01:40]:
Something like that. 2 months ago?
Fernanda Martinelli [00:01:41]:
The end of the end of March. Yeah.
Heidi [00:01:43]:
The end of March. Yeah. And it's the middle of July. So, since then, a lot has transpired, and I wanna hear all about it.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:01:52]:
Yeah. It's been I am I don't wanna I'm a fast learner. I wanna say that I'm a fast learner, and I like to put myself through the process. So I try to enjoy that as much as I can, but I do put myself into like, I challenge myself to do it fast. Like, that's something I do. That is doesn't play well sometimes, like all the time. But, I kinda gave myself, a limit of how long did I wanna go through the videos and how long did I want it to take, and when do I wanted to see a result, and how was that working. And I was doing a lot of things, at the same time, doing the course, talking to people, networking, and trying to cold pitch.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:02:45]:
Mhmm. And it took me I wanna say I think I ran through the whole thing in probably, like, 3 or 4 weeks, which I think it was too fast. Yeah. But I was just doing that. I was like, I'm very I'm very focused, so I was like, okay. I really wanna do this, and I'll do it. And before that, I finished a 3 d course that it was very complete, that it was supposed to take me 3 months, and I did it in a month. And I was kinda, again, forcing myself for no reason, like, putting a lot of stress.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:03:17]:
And after I finished the course, the the FAST program and and going through all the things, I was like, okay. We need to start implementing. And when I started implementing, I found myself going back a lot, like, to the things, and that's when I took a step back. And I was like, why am I doing this to myself? Like, why am I putting myself in a position where I have to, challenge myself to be something that I am not yet. And maybe I need to find myself in the process, and I think that's why that was one of the things that I told you when I respond to your message, that it was a lot of personal, like, revelations that I had, like things that I found about myself and things how I wanna do things, how I wanted to approach things, how do I wanted to communicate with people, what do what did I wanted to say, not only what, but why? Why did I want to say something about it? And it was a lot about finding my own voice, and that led me to making this post on LinkedIn and talking about, talking about things that I was finding that I thought that I wasn't that I was curious, like, let's compare technical drawings with 3 d renderings and with AI because I was I was amazed when I saw about New York and and all those things. So I was like, let's put my opinion there and see what happens. And then all of a sudden, I think it was in 24 hours, it just blew up. Yeah.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:05:00]:
And it was insane the amount of people that started to connect and trying to like, hey, like, this is like so I really wanna connect with you, like, I love you. I like your work, I've seen your work, and I really wanna see, like, I I I would love to get in touch with you, and, and yeah. And from that post, I got 3 discovery calls, and 2 of them are clients.
Heidi [00:05:26]:
It has 216 reactions and 26 comments.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:05:32]:
Yeah. And I wanna say I got probably, like, 25 connections from that.
Heidi [00:05:38]:
Yeah. And that was reached out and said, I would like I like your work. Let's chat.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:05:45]:
Yes. Yeah. And that is that was that was crazy. And then in finding that voice, that was I think it was one of those moments that you realize, oh, maybe this was not the way. Maybe this is the way. And it helped me, like, to reroute and say, okay. This is something that is worth investing in, paying LinkedIn, getting in touch with people, like, actually making a meaningful connection. And and understanding also that you can send connects to anyone, but you have to put yourself out there.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:06:23]:
And if you just like it's like if they send you, like, a a follow on Instagram, yeah, anybody can follow you, but if you don't engage, there's nothing. And you're not creating a connection. You're not talking to someone. Like, you're not, you're not being, what's the word that I'm looking for? There's no purpose behind it. And and I think that was that was something that that I was missing, in in my journey, that I I'm trying to understand how to make that, making the bridge and then walk the bridge. And that's that's that was kinda, like, my process, I wanna say. Yeah. Yeah.
Heidi [00:07:07]:
Okay. And I think too, like, it's interesting because, you know, there's a lot of strategies for freelancing and it's not always, like, cut and dry. Do this, that leads to this, that leads to that. Like, it's never quite that simple. It is a little bit of a living and breathing process depending on Yeah. You and your voice and kind of figuring out, like, how to get that out into the world. Like you said, building that bridge and then walking over it. So I love that I mean, it sounds like you just the the your thought process behind this post, which is the difference between, here the title here is exactly technical drawing versus 3 d renderings versus AI generated images.
Heidi [00:07:48]:
And it sounds like it was really led by your own interest and curiosity and all of these things.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:07:53]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally.
Heidi [00:07:56]:
So you put it out there. And we'll we'll definitely link to the post in the show notes so everybody can see what post we're talking about. And you have 623 followers on LinkedIn. Like, you shouldn't this is not to get that type of reaction, it's not like you have thousands of followers.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:08:14]:
Yeah.
Heidi [00:08:14]:
So so this is a really big reaction. I wanna hear about the people that reached out, and I know that at least one of them has converted into a project. Maybe more by now because I know it's been a while since we've chatted. But, what did they did they reach out in in your as a connection request with the DM, or what did the process look like? How did how did those conversations go?
Fernanda Martinelli [00:08:35]:
They, they sent a connect request. And then after that, we just messaged on LinkedIn, and then we move into emails and Zoom and and all of that. So that was Yeah. That was pretty that that was kind of forward. Like, not a lot of people sends DMs, like, right away. I do it. Like, I'm not gonna lie. I do it.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:08:54]:
But, like, I sent a a nobody sent a DM just to connect. Like, they just sent a connect and, I got one person that connected and I I was actually on LinkedIn, so I I accepted it. And and then he started, like, texting me all the time, and I was like, okay. Maybe I I don't wanna engage too fast. Like and and I understood that from the other side. Right, like when you're sending when you get that sort of feel when when you're on the other side of the equation, like, oh, okay, maybe that's how I'm, like, putting myself like, or this is not a good strategy, and this is why you need to change and, like, try to put yourself in different situations. And that was, eye opening because it was not just engaging I knew I wanted to answer all the comments that I had in there, but I knew that I had to dedicate time to it. And I'm sure that, well, I only had that post, that just blew out, but you have a lot of posts, so you know how long it can take, like, sometimes to go like read the comment and be meaningful about, like, what you wanna answer.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:09:57]:
And even like if you get someone that you don't wanna that that didn't makes a good comment, it's like having a good strategy to approach that as well. And those were things that that actually, I had a person actually in the post that was saying, like, why do you do this? Why didn't you just, like, sit yourself in your in a chair, like, start drawing with a pencil or something like that? And for me, that was like and I understood, like and I try not to give a tone to it because I think that's something that we all do. And then I reach out to him, and he reached out to me through the Internet, and we started talking. He ended up being, like, not so far away from me. And and I was telling him, like, you know, like, I think that I don't know, I don't know how it was, but he told me that he actually was a designer for the Olympic Olympic team in Canada, where where I'm located. And I was like, that is so amazing. He showed me his work, that he works by him. I was like, that is awesome.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:10:53]:
Like, I feel like you could do like so much if you would use like a AI, if you use like illustrator. And then I don't know how the conversation went forward, but he, we ended up talking, I was telling him like, let me know when you're ready and I can teach you some things, and it was all good. Yeah. So for me, it was so interesting, right? Like it was like challenging on the communication, that it was like communication is key. Like, everybody says, oh, communication is key, and you have to know all these things. But, like, when you put it in practice, like, it becomes really challenging, but at the end of it, it's really fruitful. So, yeah, that was pretty cool.
Heidi [00:11:31]:
Yeah. That is super, super cool. Okay. So why don't I wanna hear about the 3 discovery calls that you wind up having off of this one LinkedIn post. And I know one of them, as of now, is it one has led to a paid project?
Fernanda Martinelli [00:11:47]:
Yes. Okay.
Heidi [00:11:48]:
So let's talk about that one first. Sure. So you just got some blank connection requests. They didn't have messages in them?
Fernanda Martinelli [00:11:57]:
He got a message. He was telling me that he want yeah. He got a message, and he said that he wanted to, he wanted to sign a jacket, and that he wanted to I am, promoting myself as because my experience is in workwear, but I did outerwear as well, and lifestyle, and or sportswear, actually. The way that I I connect workwear with other categories is, is very connected with outdoors, cosmetic to outerwear because of how the performance can be applied to them. And because they're very functional items. So outerwear is actually much more functional than any other, item in other category. He I I in my portfolio, I have a few jackets and things that I designed for the portfolio, And he reached out to me and say, like, I really wanna do this jacket, and, and I told him, okay, let's plan for discovery call. And I think we planned discovery call for that was a Sunday.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:13:02]:
I think it was a Sunday morning, and I I think I planned the meeting for Wednesday or Thursday. We had some problems with the time zones, but we kinda figured it out a bit, and and yeah, when we talked in the first meeting, he he was telling me about his product. We talk a lot about he being in in the states. I am in Canada, and how he ended up here, how he ended up there, and things like that. And he was like after that, he was like, okay. Tell me what you wanna do, and how do you wanna, where are you in the stage? And, yeah, we talk about, like, what what was his idea, so it was it it was kinda nice to talk, to someone that is is starting to develop something. And that was that is something that I am working with my other client too. Like, it's, they're starting brands.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:13:58]:
They're starting brands. They're developing a product, like, from from inception, and it's, and it's very interesting. It was really good to see, how, like, how can I bring the value there? I don't know how to explain it in a better way, but it was when he was explaining, I was I was trying to fill in the gaps to get to the result that he wanted to get. And having that conversation made it easier for me to see where I can bring value.
Heidi [00:14:29]:
Mhmm.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:14:30]:
And that was, that was really good. Like, and and then after that, I think I asked him for a couple of days, to create a a proposal. Mhmm. And I created a whole proposal with everything, and I included things that I consider that were also good to go to to have it in the project. And yeah. And then after that, he he never he didn't flinch. Or, actually, after the call, he wanted to pay me, and I told him no. Because he he told me, like, I value your time.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:15:05]:
And and I was like, I really value that you value my time, but I don't like, this is a discovery call. Like, I wouldn't charge you for that.
Heidi [00:15:13]:
Oh, you wanted to pay for the call itself. Yeah.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:15:15]:
You wanted to pay for that. And I told him, like, moving forward, if we have this kind of calls, like, that is definitely gonna be charged. But, like, at this point, like, this is a discovery call. Like, I don't consider that you have to pay for it. Yeah. And and then after that, it was, like, the honestly, like, he's the best client. Like, he doesn't miss he didn't miss a payment. He, he's very responsive.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:15:39]:
He is very assertive into the things he want. He was very comparative. Like, even we had a hiccup last week, and and and I was forward with him. Like, look. I'm having this problem with, my software. Like, he was like, don't worry about it. Just give it to me next week. And and it was so refreshing to say because as a freelancer, you say, what am I gonna do when I found myself in in a sticky situation or, like, when something go goes wrong? Because when you work in corporate, it's like, there's there's there's a lot of people in the team, and now I am the team.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:16:15]:
So it's kinda like it it was, it was challenging, but then it was like, it's communicate it's again, it's going back to communication, saying, okay. So I was forward, like and I told him, this is what happened, this is how I can solve it, and this is my extra. Like, this is the extra that I can give you. And, we actually had a meeting after we talked about it, and I showed him, like, how was I was trying to to fix. And he's like, this looks amazing already, and, and then he was like, don't worry. Just send it to me next week. And, yeah, it's it's been great, like, with this client. Like, so I'm really, really happy with him.
Heidi [00:16:52]:
Yeah. Okay. I wanna talk a little bit, about I wanna talk a little bit more about the discovery call, because I I think that I heard some like, it sounds like you led it really, really well. I'm thinking it sounds like you did some things that I suggest inside fast in terms of the discovery call training. And what I heard in the little bit that you talked about there was that you didn't go and so for everybody listening, a discovery call is essentially going into your first conversation with the client the prospective client to learn the goal is as the freelancer to learn more about where they're currently at, what problems they're having, what type of help they need, where they're trying to get, and how you can help them get there and help help them solve those problems. And so you went into the discovery call not with, like, this set idea of, like, well, I could do, workwear tech pack or your jacket tech pack for a $1,000 or I do this type of work and it's $85 an hour. Instead, it what I heard was that you went into the call and you led with a lot of curiosity to ask a lot of questions to understand exactly where he was. And then from there, you saw places along the way where you're like, oh, I can help with that and I can help with that.
Heidi [00:18:09]:
And then you took the time to put together a proposal based off of what you learned in the discovery call that that suited his custom needs.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:18:18]:
Yes. And I think the yeah. The keywords curiosity, being curious and annoying, makes Annoying. 6,000 quote annoying and make 6,000 questions, like Okay.
Heidi [00:18:29]:
Just answer that question.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:18:31]:
Yeah. And it's like, I I, I I get, with my husband too. I get I get a little annoying sometimes, and I I make, like and and when he explained something to me from his work, and I'm like, well, what is this? And what is that? And I had my niece the other day asking she's in the at the age when she's asking, like, what's that? And what's that? And what's that? And what's that? And and I I got to a point where I'm like, yeah. You have to be like, if you're not curious, you're never gonna find out things. And that is true. Whether you're 2 or whether you're 39, like, it doesn't change. Like, that's how it is. And I I had a in in a call with with a different client, I, I when I talked to him, I told him, like, I would never tell you that I'm an expert because I'm not.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:19:21]:
Because there's somebody else doing something different than me, that also works. So whoever tells you that it's an expert, like, it's probably an expert in something in a method, and I am very curious about, like, understanding, like, why things work in different ways. So when I was in the call with this, with this client, I noticed that besides that he was starting this, I wanted to understand what were the motivations behind that, and why he wanted to do that, and why he wanted to do it in that way. And what I wanted to measure in a way was the the limitations, the boundaries, the the very specific requests, the things that were actually a little bit more flexible. So I was trying to lead kinda, like, with flexibility to tell him, we can make this work this way or we can make it work that way. And but it's still gonna work. So trying to be able to give, options, let's say, and to show that you're listening, to show that you're paying attention, and they're gonna try to do your best to make it work in a way, like, to get the result. So I think that, yeah, like, curiosity is is just key.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:20:33]:
It's just making, like I know that I'm very I am always in every call that I I am, like, not in not in all of them, but when when is the first time I'm in a webinar or something? I make a lot of questions. I I know how I am. Like, it's my nature to understand. Like, there was a lot of time that I not that I was silenced, but that it takes a lot of time to get to the point where you feel comfortable making the questions and standing up and showing that you probably don't know something. So I lost that fear long time ago. So when I have to ask for something now, it's like, I just go and ask it. Like, when I I remember I send you a message, like, look. I'm not gonna be able to be here, like, nothing, but can I still join fast? And you said, yeah.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:21:20]:
Sure. Like and and it was the same thing. Like and and for me, that is the most like it it's, it's part of who I am, and I tried to live with that. Not not trying to show that I am, like, a straight up designer, that just showing that I'm a person and that I'm curious about why how we and curious about the way that we can connect, and something good is gonna come from that connection.
Heidi [00:21:48]:
Yeah. And it's I love that you talked to him about the motivation behind his project. Like, his why. Because as the designer, as a freelancer, that gives you so much more perspective and insight of, like you said, the different directions that you might wanna take it based off of his motivation and and possibly, like, his end goal. Like, what's the ultimate goal with this product? And when you ask those kinds of questions, like, it's interesting because from a client's perspective because I now hire a lot of freelancers, and so I I see what it's like on the other side. Most freelancers do not ask questions like that. Just for everybody out there listening and for you. And from a client's perspective, when someone starts asking a question like that, I all of a sudden, I'm like, oh, this person really cares.
Heidi [00:22:39]:
Like, they're not here to just do the tech package, check it off the list. Right? Or do the thing. Right? They're here because they really care. They wanna know more. They wanna understand. And the more that you understand about a project, the better job you can do. It it's again leading with that curiosity and and doing a great job. And and sometimes those the the process might change based off of certain things that you discover behind their motivation or maybe things they've tried before that didn't work.
Heidi [00:23:11]:
So it's so key to get that information.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:23:14]:
It is. And it's it's important, like, to like you said, like, to show that. Like, I think that one of the ones one of the main things that I discovered as a freelancer is that, like, you realize really quickly when you wanna do something, when you wanna work with someone. And and the reason why I ask those questions is because it makes me like, if someone would answer me, like, you know, I just wanna make a lot of money and I know this is gonna sell, It's I I feel like I wouldn't be I wouldn't feel as connected as someone that comes and told me, you know, I I don't know. I work in a farm, and I really wanna do something that helps me to protect myself from the sun or the wind or whatever. And, my my mother, like, was struggles to to be in the sun now because she's 75 and or something like that, like, something that comes with with a meaning, with a story, with a purpose. And and I feel like the more you know about something of course, everybody wants to make something to sell and make money. Like, that is, like, that is obvious.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:24:21]:
But if there's no purpose behind that, then why are you, like, why are you really doing it?
Heidi [00:24:27]:
Yeah.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:24:27]:
So so I think that that is very, very important. At least for me, like, I and and if someone goes and, like, really wants to do things, like, in Chexo, I think it works too. There's different things for everybody, and there's different ways of doing things. And and I when when if I, if I compare it, like, to a corporate job, when you're in a corporate job, it's more it's more or less like that. Like, you're checking off things until you get the result that you have in your project or in in your responsibility. So it's it it works for some people, and it doesn't work for others. So it's important to understand, like, what things can fall in that list when you need to have a different perspective to approach something like that that has a little bit more purpose.
Heidi [00:25:12]:
Yeah. That's so important. Okay. So you you learned a lot more about his project, and then what did you take away from that? What were what were you like, okay. These are the areas where he needs help. Like, what ultimately did you decide to put together for a package?
Fernanda Martinelli [00:25:27]:
So we end we started with design. And when I was I I created the proposal just for design, and and I broke it down into how can I create the the how can I help him to shape the idea, and how can that and then how idea is gonna transition into the design and then into the third part? Okay. So that was kinda like the project. And then on the other side, like, in the communications, I I was always trying to lead with just so you know, this is how one of the things that I asked, for example, is product development, and he right away, right off the top, he told me, like, I have someone that is gonna take care of that. So it was like, okay. So it it's, less for me to deal with it. And that's why I led with with those things. Then I explained, like, how we can develop, like, the idea, the color palette, the the mood boards, and and and so on.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:26:26]:
And, yeah, I created the proposal with those things. And then then in the communications, I, I took the the advice from the program, like, right after when you when they accept and when you're developing, Hey. I can help you with the demo. I can help you with the sourcing. I can help you with things. And that's how it started, like, to also keep rolling. Like, things like, hey. I know this.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:26:47]:
I know this vendor here. Like, I can, I can give you this email? You can totally, like, get in touch with them, or, I had an idea for your brand, like, for your branding or your tagline. Like, I can help you with that. Like, I have a I have experience in marketing too, so I always I always bring a lot of that to to what I do. And I I always tell them, like, what about your story too? Like, what is the story behind that? And and and it's like, yeah. And and we were talking last week about it, then, I was talking about marketing and branding. Like, it has nothing to do with fashion. Well, it has to do, but, like, not straightly design.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:27:23]:
So it's kinda like I I I was paying for like, I was actually I gave the proposal of what he asked, but on the side, I was always telling him, like, I can help you with this. Like, I am here to help you, basically.
Heidi [00:27:38]:
Yeah. That's amazing. And so has he hired you on to work on some of those other things yet? Are you is it still you're still in the design phase?
Fernanda Martinelli [00:27:47]:
No. We've finished that. We've finished that. And then after that, I I pitched him for 3 d.
Heidi [00:27:54]:
Yeah. And
Fernanda Martinelli [00:27:55]:
yeah. And we started working on on 3 d a couple weeks ago. Oh, man. The design that I made, I'm putting now into Chloe and, like, doing I actually I did, AI images for him so he we can actually have, like, a better, he can have, like, a better bit better visual of what we were doing, like, what was the vision, and he loved it. And then when we had the meeting last week, like, we actually went through the the whole, 3 d rendering. He was like, oh my god. Like, what is that? It's like Wow. And it's kinda like and it's actually it was actually good because I feel like people, like, to see the animation.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:28:32]:
It's like, oh, it's like Sims. It's like, no. It's not like Sims. So it's like, no. Yeah. No. Not even close, but it's kinda it it's kinda cool, like, to show people actually all the work that is behind it. Yeah.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:28:47]:
And when we talk about, like when we were talking about 3 d, I told him, like, there's a huge opportunity here, like, for saving money in product development, saving time, and I think it's gonna help me to have a better idea of how that can fit. Like, we can actually put it in different bodies. And Akhil was like, oh, yeah. I can like he told me, like, I can totally see it. And and I told him, like, I can help you, like, whatever comes after too. And, yeah, it's, it's, it's it's been great, like, honestly, like, with this client. Like, I really enjoy working with him, and and and and, again, like, it all came from a LinkedIn post.
Heidi [00:29:25]:
Yeah. It's just amazing.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:29:27]:
It is.
Heidi [00:29:30]:
Just quickly to clarify, did you use did you use NewArc to
Fernanda Martinelli [00:29:34]:
do the AI Yes. Mockups? I used NewArc. Yeah. Cool.
Heidi [00:29:38]:
Alright. We'll link to that in the show notes. NewArc is a very, very cool tool. Full disclaimer, I'm a brand partner, but they're an amazing tool that to help you
Fernanda Martinelli [00:29:46]:
They do.
Heidi [00:29:46]:
Yeah. Mock up, realistic photo renders of your designs. I love that you added that service on by being, like, okay, well, I see what's coming up next. Like, what else can I help you with? That is amazing. Yeah. Yeah.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:30:01]:
And and I thought that it was gonna like, for some reason, like, when when you go through I I can't remember which module it is, but Yeah. I remember that, like, when you explained it, like, it sounds it was very I was scared of doing it, I'm not gonna lie, like I was scared of like, hey. It's part of like I think it was part of the journey, like you're you feel like you have to be in between, like, two lines. Right? Like, and then all of a sudden, it's like and it again, personal journey. Like, you say, oh, I said the lines where the lines are, or I can take those lines out then. And and it was, when when I realized it's part of talking, and and I I was talking to my therapist a couple last week, and I was telling her like, I I think my whole life, all the people told me that I had to learn how to sell myself. And I came to realize with all of this that actually it's not about it's not about selling yourself, it's about understanding where you can bring value and showing yourself as you are. And there's a huge difference between selling yourself, for me, selling yourself and actually understanding your value, because somebody can come and tell you, like, you're actually good you're good for this and this and that, and that's it.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:31:24]:
And I think that was, like, having the power to say, this is where I'm gonna bring value, and this is how I'm gonna make things. That that makes that made a shift for me.
Heidi [00:31:33]:
Yeah. That is a huge mindset shift. You just had that last week? No. Or
Fernanda Martinelli [00:31:38]:
No. I've been having it, like, I just talk about it, but, yeah. I'll be happy.
Heidi [00:31:42]:
Okay. For a while, this has been an evolution.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:31:45]:
Years of therapy, but it's always, like I always say, it's totally worth it.
Heidi [00:31:49]:
So It is totally worth it. I'm a big proponent of therapy as well. Would you talk a little bit about the proposals and, like, wrapping your head around the pricing and how you went through all of that? Did you do hourly or projects? Like, what did that look like? How'd you map it all out?
Fernanda Martinelli [00:32:05]:
That is actually interesting because I I thought that I had to start hourly. And I realized that, I kinda I I don't know if I'm doing it right, but I found it easier to price by project. And I think it's easier for the clients to understand their project price. What I gave myself, like, I I do try to time myself, and I try to time myself into how long it could take. Mhmm. And because of, like, I was trying to set a realistic rate on how long it will take. So what I tried to do is dividing the my proposal into the milestones, and then each milestone let's say you have, like, you're designing I don't know. You're designing a range, so when you finish the sign, you have to do a checkbox, and then after the checkbox, you're gonna do sourcing.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:33:06]:
Or so or maybe you do you you send it to a pattern maker, and then the pattern maker can do that. So those are the 3 milestones, let's say, like, talking broadly. And so in the design, what are the things that I have built that that I will have to deliver? So I made a list of the things that I have to deliver for that that milestone. I need to create a user board. I need to understand the user. I need to understand the brand. I need to understand the the the aesthetics that we're gonna work with. So I'm pro I I'm definitely gonna do a user, or I'm gonna do a concept, or I'm gonna do a color palette, and I'm gonna reference Pantone.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:33:43]:
I'm gonna do, I'm gonna do a presentation for for all of that. And I, I don't know. I can create a storytelling of things. I feel like everybody works the process, like, the design process kind of differently but similar. So I try to list all the items, and then I go from each item, how long that will take me, and then when I that can be what will be a realistic delivery date for that? And I try to time it like that and how long that can take me. And in the like, I love I I get myself lost into Pinterest, like, looking for things and stuff, like, as any other mortal, so, I try to time myself into those things, like, to be more specific and focus about what I really wanna do and accomplish. And one of the things that I did that I noticed that people really values, like, the clients are like, I created a brief document that I sent to them, by the way, after the call, and that they can complete and give me as much information as they can. So I work with briefs better because it's really it's it's actually pretty forward because they have the opportunity to think about what they what they want to accomplish, and then they give me all the information, and then I can also see more gaps in there about things.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:35:08]:
Mhmm. Like, how many sizes do you wanna make? What is your type of body? Like, what where where is this people located? What is your user like? And stuff like that. So I try to keep the exploration and, like, looking for things, like, as short as I can on my end, and I try to do it more like a collaboration with a client so they actually are part of that process. And then, when I create a proposal, I am very I I have a document that I created that actually states, like, all the all the terms. It's very similar to the contract. So I have a layout right now where I have all the stages separated with all the deliverables, and then, what are the payment terms, and, like, in everything in one page so they can actually see it, and then brief explanations of the things that they were already discussed during the call. So when they actually look at the proposal, they can see everything that was discussed, and it's easier for them to make a decision. I also add on the proposals, like, an hourly rate because what I found is that it's easier, like, for them to see the scope creep too and to refer to the scope creep after that.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:36:21]:
When you list the deliverables and when you say, this is what you're gonna get, but if there's something else I would need to do, it falls into this rate.
Heidi [00:36:30]:
Mhmm.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:36:31]:
So and then they know if there's something additional that is paramount by that by that rate. And that's how I've been working with both. Like, I do hourly, but I do project based, and that's how I show them, like and I also like, if they wanna jump on a call and have, like, a consulting call that that we can discuss things, that is a different rate as well. Yeah. That's how I've been trying to put it all together.
Heidi [00:36:58]:
Now remind me okay. This was so thorough, and I'm so impressed. Remind me, when did you start when did you actually start freelancing? Just since fast or you have been for a little while?
Fernanda Martinelli [00:37:13]:
So I I did whatever I did what everybody says don't do. I quit my job last year.
Heidi [00:37:21]:
Okay.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:37:21]:
And and I was I didn't have anything lined up. I I started like, I wanna say I started, yeah, freelancing, I wanna say December. Yeah. Last last year, like, not officially because it wasn't in the fashion industry. And I I kinda like I felt like I needed, you know, I needed, like, something to go back to the fashion. It was always calling me, so I was like, yeah, I need to try this. And it was yeah. In January that that I really, like, I really took the decision and say, okay.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:38:00]:
I'm gonna try it. So I started to look into, like, how to get into that, like, how to how how to break into while this other thing keep going, like, how how do I get into it again? And and, yeah, and then I found you. Like, I think I found you through LinkedIn. And I think I sent you a message, so I got an hour, like, that I wanted to connect, and you sent me, like, no. Follow me, like, right away. And I I don't remember. And I was like, yeah. She's, okay.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:38:27]:
I'm gonna do that. And then I started to see all the things, and then it was, like, one of the I think it was one of the webinars or, like, those master class that, you know, like, every month and
Heidi [00:38:35]:
one day live trainings. Yeah.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:38:37]:
And I think the first one was, like, the first of the I think it was the first one of the year. Like, that was, the one that I I sent that contact to the Lululemon recruiter.
Heidi [00:38:47]:
Yeah. I remember.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:38:48]:
And, yeah. I know. And I was like and then after that, it just, like, kept going. Yeah. I got in touch with people and, like, yeah, it was every day. I wanna say this year probably, like, it's it's the most accurate day. So, yeah, it's been a it's been a journey, but I really enjoy it.
Heidi [00:39:02]:
Yeah. Okay. So for context, everybody, because this will come out later. So it's a middle of July. So you started, like, let's say, 6, 7 months ago.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:39:11]:
Yeah.
Heidi [00:39:13]:
I just feel like you have a really well thought through process of the of all these little nuances for like, some of these things take people a long time to refine. Like, yes, we have templates inside fast for contracts and proposals and stuff. But there's a there's a lot of nuances depending on, like, what the project is, the client, what you're doing, and all this stuff. And I I I I just I'm impressed with
Fernanda Martinelli [00:39:41]:
Oh, thank you.
Heidi [00:39:42]:
The thoughtfulness you have to present this to the client in such a way. I'm I mean, to me, it's a no brainer as to why he said yes right off the bat and was like, yeah. Let's go for it.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:39:56]:
Well, I think it's one of the because I get bored. I like to go back to study something. Like, I like to learn new things, and I've been doing I realized I got a certification in project management too. And
Heidi [00:40:11]:
Ah, okay.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:40:12]:
But that actually it's gonna sound really bad. There was a lot of things that I knew before, like, what that I realized while I was doing that. Like and, I worked in marketing for 12 years back in Argentina in a bank that has nothing to do with it. But the reason why I mentioned this is because I learned how to manage the little projects. Like, you learn how to manage little projects, you learn how to manage big projects, and you are involved in different things. Being a project manager, which as freelancers, we all are, is actually being able to understand what the stakeholders' needs and wants are, and you have to juggle those things. In a as a freelancer, you you are, you are the project manager, and your stakeholders is your client. But your stakeholder can also be your user.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:41:10]:
Your stakeholder can also be the market. So it's understanding how you're gonna serve those different things and how everything works together to bring it together. So the certification in project management actually gave me much more insight into how you can communicate with your sponsor. Like, the sponsor is the one that actually manages, that has the the most interest in the project to succeed. So how you can create these documents that actually gave the sponsor, like, the the the meet and greet of, like, what is gonna happen? There's a lot of documents that we don't use as a signer, that we shouldn't, like, statements of work or, like, a statement of work is actually a document that says what what is gonna happen in a project. So but we do use proposals. We do use project a project charter as the brief. Like, it actually states, like, what's gonna happen, when it's gonna happen, how much money you have available, and when do you need it done by.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:42:14]:
Yeah. So there's no difference with a brief. And gantt charts, like, I I love gantt charts, like, and I love gantt charts my whole life. So it's, it's, it's actually like being able to plan and to put things into in a timeline perspective gives everybody peace of mind because you know when things are gonna get done, You need you you see when things need to get done, and it it's a it's a good device to show somebody else, not necessarily with the client, but, like, anybody who can see it from the other side, but show them, like, okay. This is, like, how we're doing it or how we have been doing it. So that's how you also give them visibility, and, they can see what you're working on. It's not that I found it, challenging sometimes, like and, like, how do I keep communicating with the client all the time? And that's when I started to find these devices. Like, okay.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:43:11]:
A shared tracker that we can all see. Like, they can see what things can be have been accomplished or when they're gonna get accomplished. So for anyone that is, curious about, like, all those stuff, like, I think, like, there's a IDEA certification and the there's a Google, I don't sponsor it by all means. I just recommend it because they really work for me. There's a Google project management certification that takes, like, 2 to 3 months, and it's actually, like, very useful if you wanna understand how to manage that site, term to say, how do you can lead with all these devices that actually can help you, like, for anything else? Like, whatever whatever, like, whatever situation that you need to, like, do something, like, I don't know, making trips or something like that.
Heidi [00:43:57]:
Yeah. Life and life in general.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:43:59]:
Yes. Yeah. Life in general.
Heidi [00:44:01]:
Yeah. Project management is absolutely a skill. My husband also has his certification, and it is a very unique and specific skill that is learned. Yeah. I mean, I think some people obviously have a knack for certain things. But, yeah. I love how much you've applied that to your client work. Now, remind me, so you did 12 years in banking in Argentina.
Heidi [00:44:29]:
And then what's your actual fashion background?
Fernanda Martinelli [00:44:33]:
So I worked in, I started to work in fashion when I moved to Canada. I was hired by a company that had, 2 brands that they were, making workwear and, like, lifestyle, I wanna say, or workwear inspired. And yeah. And and in the middle of that, I yeah, I like I always like for, like, my one of my last projects in university. I have a degree in fashion and textile design from Okay. The University of Buenos Aires. And one of my last projects and the part is, like, we always we have degree is, like, 4 years and a half. I think it's 5 now.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:45:13]:
And every single year, you have production as a as a course, and it's an annual course. And the last one was about, you have to do performance gear or any performance category. Some people got f one, pilots. Some people got, firemen. Some people got medical, and I got firemen with my with my group. And we created, like, a whole range of fireman gear. And I still show that as a pro which is crazy because I did it 10 years ago, and I still show that as a project because, for that project, we had to do the design and the product development. And we learned pattern making.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:45:59]:
We learned, how you do the like, how you put, like, all the patterns and the I don't know the words in English, but, like, how you actually create the usage of the fabric, how you set that up. Like, the marketer? Yeah. And, we had to do sourcing because we had to actually do the things. And for sourcing of garments, like, you have to go to the actual people that actually do it. Yeah. And it was really, like it was actually a hands on project, and I really enjoyed it. And I remember that one of my best friends to this day, like, we were actually together in in college, and I always told him, like, if I can live doing this, like, I would totally do it. Like, I love it so much.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:46:40]:
And here I am Here you are. Bathrooms. And that is crazy that, I always say that we have to be really careful with what we wish because it always come true, and it is. So here I here I was, and and yeah, I don't know, I think and and it was really good, like, it's really nice to to have the experience, like, to to work in the category of workwear and to understand how different it is in different parts of the world as well. So that is also for me an opportunity to learn more about other, like, other other regions and how that applies. So Yeah. Yeah. That is that was that is my experience.
Heidi [00:47:22]:
Amazing. I am so thrilled for you. I feel like we could talk for a whole another episode first. But I'm super, super excited for you. You are a very fast learner, and then you take action, and it is very clear. And I that is going to your trajectory is gonna be phenomenal. This is, like, just the early days. I just know it.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:47:48]:
Thank you so much. I really appreciate it, and I really, really appreciated that you wanted to have this conversation. Like, I am I'm still kinda shaky, but, yeah.
Heidi [00:47:56]:
Oh, gosh. I cannot tell at all that you're nervous. I know you mentioned to me and and, we were chatting on LinkedIn, and and you had said, I don't I don't know. I what what do I what are we gonna talk about? And I was like, oh, just chat. It'll be great.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:48:09]:
Yeah. And you know what? It's kinda funny because I, I was talking, because, again, it everything for me is it's been a not everything, but, like, it's been a realization about, like, okay. Why am I questioning why she wants to talk to me? Like Yeah. She wants to talk to like, she wants to talk to me. I was really surprised.
Heidi [00:48:31]:
I was like, wait. What do you mean? Of course, I wanna talk to you.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:48:35]:
I got I I feel so bad, like, because that's when I realized I am the only one, like, limiting myself, and I know boundaries. Exactly. Like, you're always putting those you're putting yourself between two lines, and it's like, okay. Why why am I putting myself between two lines? And I was talking to, I was talking to an, an actual answer from the from the FAST program that we got in touch, and we we started talking, and we we decided to meet. And and when I was talking to her, she she had something similar like like and she said, like, I'm so grateful that you said all these things to me because it actually helped me realize that I can totally do something, that something about like a project and something. And I was like, you know, I do the same thing. Like, I put myself into I I always think that I cannot do it Mhmm. Because, like, you believe that you're not able to do it, and and then you how do you need that little like, that that assurance, like, no, you can't, like, you need like like, you can shut the door, but then somebody comes and opens that window.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:49:38]:
He's like, no, see, here it is. And And that's how I felt like when I could say like, why am I like why am I like I have to do it, like, this is how it's gonna like, this is how things happen, like talking to other people, again, going back to communicating, so that's how I, I try to approach it, like how I found myself into this discovery journey that it's like, you're always it's kinda funny because as a freelancer, like, it's it seemed like very lonely, but at the same time, it's amazing how much more connected I feel with other professionals in the industry. And I feel like everybody who goes through the same kind of thing, like, you think that you're alone doing things and you always sit in a desk, but it's also a lot of making meaningful connections that actually give you the opportunity to reach out for a hand, collaborate in a project, or doing things like that. So
Heidi [00:50:36]:
yeah. Yeah. That's just amazing.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:50:39]:
It is. I'm
Heidi [00:50:41]:
and it's so cool. Thank you so much for coming on to share your story and your experience and all the smart lessons you've learned and implemented. It's really great. First of all, where can people connect with you and find you online?
Fernanda Martinelli [00:50:56]:
On LinkedIn. LinkedIn? By LinkedIn is definitely one. I have, my portfolio on a website where there's a form with that everybody can get in touch with me. My website is hola f m design, dot com. Hola as in hello in Spanish. Yeah. My email is f as, hermanda, m as Marina, which is my second name, and Martinelli, that is my last name, atgmail.com.
Heidi [00:51:24]:
Okay. Awesome. We'll put all that in the show notes. And I would love to end the interview with the question I ask everybody, at at the very end, which is, what is one thing people never ask you about being a freelance fashion designer that you wish they would?
Fernanda Martinelli [00:51:41]:
Oh, I don't know. I've been asked many things. I've been asked, how did I live up in Canada? Like, or I don't know. Maybe nobody asked me why I haven't done it earlier. Oh. Why why haven't I I think it's because I I didn't believe that I that, that I could. And that, I needed to know it's like when when the message that you have in in the book, I was like, how can you succeed, like, without having all the answers? And I had this belief that you have to know you have to know more. You have to know better.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:52:26]:
That you have to be, you have to show yourself. You have to show the certification or the degree or whatever. Mhmm. It's kinda funny because I got my degree in fashion design, and and then it's like, yeah. It's amazing. It's a huge accomplishment. But it's like it means a lot to me, but may it doesn't mean that. Like, it's like, the value, it's it's not in the piece of paper.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:52:54]:
And and I think that, that when I realized that the value is in the doing, that the value is in the the the connection and and the intention, then, yeah, that's that's when I made, that that's when I changed the mindset, and I felt more confident in myself, in my body, in my actions, in my brand, in my my my journey as a professional. So and not only for, like, like I it apply in freelancing because I'm freelancing right now, but, like, I feel like in any other areas of your life, like, when you feel actually when you don't when you don't need to put into somebody else's the power of, understanding your value, then Mhmm. That's when you win. Yeah.
Heidi [00:53:45]:
Yeah. You have done so much personal development work. I can tell.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:53:49]:
I did. Yeah. My therapist is happy.
Heidi [00:53:52]:
Yeah. But it's I mean, it it dominoes into it's it makes your life.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:54:01]:
Yeah.
Heidi [00:54:01]:
Yeah. It's huge. No. And powerful.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:54:05]:
Yeah. And I feel like it's, it's it's very important to to understand that that that you're a person after all. Like, it's not it's no different, like, showing yourself as a professional. It it it's not putting yourself a power suit and and your best smile. It's just like it's being committed to something, and and and that can have different forms. And I am glad that we live in a time when those things are changing, and that we can all, like we we are actually shaping a new way of working right now, and and I think that's very valuable for everybody because companies are actually more more open to have these different settings, to work in different ways, and and I think that's gonna be good. Overall, like, I know that we're we're going to go in pains, but, overall, I think that's gonna be huge and good.
Heidi [00:54:56]:
Yeah. Yeah. I know so. I'm so excited. This is just the beginning. We're gonna have to have you on in, like, a year or something for an update. I know we are. I just know That'd be awesome.
Heidi [00:55:10]:
Yeah. Thank you so much, Fernanda. This was lovely to get to chat with
Fernanda Martinelli [00:55:14]:
you. And for anyone who's listening and is doubting of going with Heidi, I would always recommend her. Like, seriously, like and I always tell you this, like and I tried to say this and I'll talk, but, yeah, I I think you put a lot of things, in your channels and you communicated a lot of information that it's if you really wanna do the work, like, it's actually pretty valuable, and it it helps you to take action towards, what you really want. And at least that's what it what it felt for me. Like, when I was seeing, like, the snippets of of snippets of advice, how to approach, like, okay, don't show yourself, like or even like don't send messages or requests without a message, so we are trying to connect or like being intentional about it, like that seems so trivial, but it's true. And those are the things that you actually put into words that everybody's like just trying to figure it out, so that is very valuable. And I think that the fact that you're doing it for free most of the time, and then you actually set up a whole program for for those of us who are trying to figure out, like, what to do, like, in the freelance world, that is amazing. So it's, for whoever is doubting it, like, yeah, we just go for it.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:56:26]:
Thank you. You're so sweet. Worries. Yeah.
Heidi [00:56:31]:
You're so sweet.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:56:31]:
So good.
Heidi [00:56:32]:
I did not ask you to say this. Everyone listening, I did not ask her to say this.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:56:35]:
No. I she didn't ask. I can swear by that.
Heidi [00:56:39]:
Thank you so much. It's so lovely to to get to know you a little better and hear your story.
Fernanda Martinelli [00:56:44]:
No. Thank you.