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Join the Nerds!
Welcome to the funtastic world of the Fabulous Learning Nerds! Scott Schuette and Daniel Coonrod and Zeta Gardner are Learning Executives with over 50 years’ experience between them. Together they share new ideas, learning tools, approaches and technology that increase learner engagement and impact. All while having FUN! To participate in the show and community please contact them at learningnerdscast@gmail.comÂ
The nerds are all about creating a community of learning, innovation and growth amongst educational professionals: Instructors, facilitators, instructional designers, learning and development professionals, trainers, leadership development professionals, learning metric gurus, sales enablement wizards and more. So, if you want to learn, connect, grow and have a good time doing it, The Fabulous Learning Nerds Podcast is for YOU! Â
Scott (00:01.921)
Hey everybody, welcome back to another fantastic episode of Your Fabulous Learning Nerds. I'm Scott Chudy and with me, the juggernaut of learning, Dan Coonrod, everybody.
Scott (00:19.393)
Dan!
daniel (00:20.942)
I don't know how I feel about the juggernaut of learning. That's heavy, man. I don't know if I can handle that.
Scott (00:27.841)
Why can't you handle the juggernaut of learning? Is that a bad thing for you or?
daniel (00:30.958)
I don't feel like I'm the juggernaut of learning. That's a lot of weight to carry, man.
Scott (00:34.657)
Oh, I do. I disagree. It might be for sure. I mean, there's a reason why I called you the juggernaut of learning, but I'm going to ask how you're doing first.
daniel (00:51.246)
I mean, I'm fair to Midland, obviously. There you go. But now I'm curious. Like I want to dive in. Like what's that? I do bad with compliments, man. You know that.
Scott (00:57.185)
Alright.
Scott (01:01.313)
Well, no no no, compliments are great and Juggernaut of Learning makes a heck of a lot of sense for you my friend because yeah, you made me watch X -Men 97!
daniel (01:16.014)
I mean, I don't know if that makes me a juggernaut of learning.
Scott (01:19.361)
It does because you are the juggernaut, you know that the you know, um, I you made me watch it. You said you need to watch this. I said, I don't have Disney plus. So I went and I went to friend's house. We watched it. Um, and I I'm going to say this like I, the, the cool thing about X -Men 97, we're gonna nerd out everybody. Welcome to Fabulous Learning Nerds where we nerd out for a little bit. The cool thing about, um, X -Men 97 is that.
daniel (01:30.286)
Oh yeah, it's true.
Scott (01:50.145)
It's so well done that I actually might watch an episode purposefully for a second or maybe third time. I mean, that's how good it is, right? So these are, they're pulling right from the comics too. Like, oh, I read that comic. Oh, that's really cool. Versus a lot of times what I'm seeing nowadays from comic movies of what the hell is this?
daniel (02:02.862)
Yeah. Yeah.
Scott (02:14.689)
You know what I'm saying? I have no idea what the heck that is. It's just really, really, really great storytelling based on really, really, really great stories. And that should be a lesson to all of us around storytelling, the importance of storytelling, and how we should pull our stories and tell our stories and all that good stuff. So you are the juggernaut, sir. Yeah.
daniel (02:31.278)
That's fair. I'll take that. I'll take that. As long as it applies to nerdy comic book stuff. Yeah. Okay. You know, I tell you, you're right. A hundred percent. I'm going to date myself, but being a kid and watching, maybe being a teen and watching X -Men in the nineties was like, it was, it was one of those like great cartoons that like, I'd be like, man, I don't want to get up early on a Saturday because I want to be lazy.
Scott (02:36.385)
Yeah.
daniel (02:58.702)
But if I don't get up by 10 o 'clock, I'm going to miss it. Miss X -Men. OK, I mean, I'll get up and watch X -Men or, you know, go to sleep right after X -Men, depending on how late I'd stayed up. But, you know, dude, it picks up as the same feel. I'm super impressed because the animation is CGI now, but they do a good enough job that, like, I really had to, like, really, like, focus in and only in a couple of places I really noticed. I think I think the big thing is it feels like.
Scott (03:03.937)
Yeah.
daniel (03:28.846)
how I remember the series. It doesn't look or exactly sound like the series, but it matches that feeling, which I think makes me officially old now that I can fall for nostalgia. I think this is the moment.
Scott (03:37.473)
Mm -hmm.
Scott (03:42.369)
No, no, I think it's great too. I'm officially old as well, so join the freaking club, sir, which is great. Yeah. Also with us, the Jean Grey of learning. Zeta's in the house, everybody.
daniel (03:47.15)
Yeah!
Scott (04:03.713)
Never has that theme made more sense than it does right now. Zeta, how you doing, my friend?
Zeta (04:05.67)
Oh, I'm doing pretty good. I'm doing pretty good. For a second there, I thought you were going to say that I was the Black Tom Cassidy since he was the juggernaut. Yeah, sorry. Yeah, well, I mean, they're villains. Yeah, we're villains. Massive.
Scott (04:13.121)
Alright.
daniel (04:20.494)
Deep, deep, deep cut.
Scott (04:25.761)
Yeah.
daniel (04:27.246)
Deep cut, nerd.
Scott (04:29.569)
Total nerd, total nerdness, yeah, no. Well, I had all that stuff and it's super duper great. I'm super excited about it, so that's cool. I'm glad you're enjoying it. You are the Jean Grey of learning, I think. It's great. Visionary, reaching lots of people, you know.
Zeta (04:31.366)
I love the comics, what can I say?
Zeta (04:50.79)
Wow, now all I gotta do is get a cerebro and I'll be perfect.
Scott (04:57.409)
you know, before we lose all of our audience around the X -Men and why we love them. So I think that we can go ahead and transition just a little bit and talk a little bit about some really deep and important stuff when it comes to learning. So let's go ahead and dive into our topic of the week, everybody.
Scott (05:23.969)
All right. This week's topic, why failure is awesome. That's right. Why failure is awesome. And, um, Dan, I know you put this all together. This is one of the times we're just going to get together and talk. I think it's really cool. And I couldn't agree with you more failure is awesome. But before everybody's scratching their heads going, what are you talking about? Dan, what, what the heck do you mean about failure being awesome, my friend?
daniel (05:29.902)
Boom.
daniel (05:52.91)
I've got a couple things, a couple hot facts I want to drop on folks, but I want to challenge us first. I want to drop the gauntlet to us in celebration of failure being awesome. I want us to not do pickups in this episode, not do like deep edits. I want us to own our mistakes, own our failures and just push them out live to our audience. And for those of you who are...
Those of you guys in our audience, I apologize now.
Scott (06:26.305)
Now, we can always edit that out, right? We can always edit that gauntlet out.
Zeta (06:29.414)
I'm going to go ahead and close the video.
daniel (06:30.83)
No, that comment's gotta stay.
Scott (06:34.945)
Well, here's how I feel about it.
Scott (06:44.481)
That's right, everybody. You get the smell of our dirty laundry today. So yeah, no, not a problem. We'll go ahead. We make a mistake. We're just going to say, you know, we'll step on each other. We'll pause for eight minutes thinking about something to say like folks just go with it. Like that's OK. This is real. This is authentic. It's what you want, right? This is what you want. Failure is awesome. We're going to go with it. That's right. Woo. Oh, OK.
Zeta (07:05.382)
Oh yeah, take a big ol' whiff.
daniel (07:12.846)
So, let me drop the facts that I promised. So, big premise, failure's awesome. Most of us have grown up avoiding failure, staying away from failure. Most of us are told that like, hey, you gotta get an A on the test, you gotta succeed. The big phrase, there's no room for failure. Like that gets drilled into our heads all the time. But I wanna drop two big facts. One.
A survey by Deloitte found that 82 % of executives, those were our bosses, believe that failure is a necessary part of success and innovation.
Just let that sink in for a minute. Like not like a lot, like 82%. That's almost everybody. All your bosses, all their bosses are like, man, in order for us to succeed and to innovate, there's gotta be failure. And that's backed up with the science. That's backed up with the science. Harvard Business School says that 27%, that there's a 27 % increase.
If you reflect on your failures before the next task, that's better than a grade jump up for those of us in the education space. That's a better than one in four increase. If you just stop and go, yep, I definitely messed that up. Why did I mess that up? Okay, cool. Let me try again. That's the big thing. That's why success is built on failure.
Failure is awesome.
Scott (09:00.609)
Well, I would argue that failure is probably the best way to learn. You know what I'm saying? We remember what we mess up at, right? And then we probably either innovate and get better or we definitely don't go do that again. Like, I mean, how many of us have like, oh, I'm never going to do that again. And for the most part, you don't, right? For the most part, you don't. Some of us...
daniel (09:18.19)
Heheheheh!
Scott (09:22.912)
might take two or three times where you say that, but for the most part, most of us like, oh, I'm never going to do that again. And then we don't, which is great. So failing failure is awesome. Um, and, uh, yeah, just having that mindset of it's okay to fail cause we're going to learn from all like, like that's the important part. Like if we're just going to fail without taking the time to analyze what we could have done better, well, that's what.
failure really is, right? The inability to go ahead and take a look at what we did well and what we didn't do well and get better, right? So, yeah, I totally agree with you.
daniel (09:58.734)
Now, I had an employee who worked for me years ago and they were fantastic. They were awesome, but they were always so afraid of failure. They were always so afraid that they were gonna mess something up, that something was gonna break, or that they'd be responsible for a mistake. And I could see the stress and the pain that was causing them. I could see...
the difficulty it was giving them. And so I remember one day, like we had our one -on -one and they're like, what do you want me to work on this week? And I was like, I want you to go fail some things. I want you to go mess some things up. And they kind of laughed and I didn't. I was like, no, I'm really serious. I want you to go try something and I want you to go make a mistake. And then I don't want you to fix it right away. And they were aghast. They were just like, what? I don't know if I can do that. And I was like, well, listen, we're not.
We're not working with lives. You know, we're not in medicine. You know, we're not in law enforcement. Nobody's freedom or life depends upon the choices we make. There's room for failure. Go make those mistakes because I need you to understand, I want you to understand that failure is good. That failure is important and that in those moments, you'll get better because of that failure. And I've always believed that. I've always believed that.
And even more now as the science and the facts come out about it, as we get more and more efficient, failure is such a vital part of success.
Zeta (11:40.262)
It feels kind of counterintuitive though, doesn't I mean? Coming from a place where I never really wanted to fail, right? When I was trying my best, I didn't want to make mistakes. And because it's kind of painful when you make those mistakes, right? Like, if you don't get it right, you feel like, oh no, I messed up. The world's ending, you know, nothing's ever going to be the same, but you become hyper -focused in that moment of, oh no.
I made a mistake, how can I fix this? And I think there's a way as learning and development professionals that we can kind of like harness that superpower and like use that to help people become better learners.
daniel (12:23.982)
I totally agree. You know, you bring up initially point this feeling that you get when you have failure. And I think everybody has and like the science of failure, that's silly to say, I love it. But the science of failure, there's like, when they're looking at brains and they're giving people tasks and tests that they're purposely inducing moments of failure, like the brains light up and they light up in these places that we know have to do with like error detection and conflict monitoring. The brain's just whoop whoop.
light up because like, I got this thing wrong. And it's, it's interesting that when we get things wrong, our brain dumps a bunch of dopamine. And that's like, that's the chemical that's like, the thing that tells us to get moving. It's a motivation chemical. It's just like, it's what helps push learning. Our brains are just really big prediction devices. And when we get something wrong, they're like, Oh crap, I can't ever do that again.
And so, you know, you talk about it and it's awesome because that's exactly what the science says, that that's what's going on.
Scott (13:31.297)
Before the show, you were talking a little bit about neuroplasticity and failures response on neuroplasticity. Could you lay some science on us around what that is and why it's so important?
daniel (13:35.502)
Ooh, fancy word.
daniel (13:44.462)
No, so that's exactly what I was talking about, that neuroplasticity. And again, I'm not a super scientist. I'm just a nerd with a good internet connection and a lot of time to read. But neuroplasticity, that's your brain's ability to adapt to change and to respond to outside stimuli. And failure is the thing that pushes that part of your brain, that plasticity.
Zeta (13:55.526)
and Google foo.
daniel (14:14.126)
to like kick into gear and to work. Dopamine, what we were talking about just a second ago. Like that's the chemical that your brain just, you know, dumps into your brain when you have to learn something, when you need the motivation to learn something. I'm gonna nerd out and talk about video games. How many of you guys have played like Souls -like, you know, like, you know what I'm talking about there? Games that punish you. Yeah. Yes.
Scott (14:18.721)
Mm -hmm.
Zeta (14:36.262)
like Dark Souls, Elden Ring, yeah.
Scott (14:40.385)
Yeah, I rage quit all those games, but continue.
daniel (14:43.182)
See, okay, so let's talk about that. Games that punish you harshly for failure by like, oops, your character dies. You have to go all the way back to this last checkpoint. It's a fine line and game designers work on this all the time and as learning development professionals, we need to be thinking about this kind of stuff. Because if you can get dialed in to the right place, to the right, like don't do that or the right failure notification system.
you can build motivation in your learners.
I years ago had somebody work for me and they're like, Hey, I want to build the dark souls of training. And at the time I was like, Oh no, I don't like that. I don't like that at all. No, I don't think that's good. And we, we laugh. We had a good joke about it, but now that like, I'm looking at the science and I'm thinking about stuff. I'm like, man, maybe, maybe we do need to think about that. Maybe we do need to think about how we build failure focused training and to Matt, I apologize. You were right. I was wrong.
Scott (15:50.049)
No, I think it's a really powerful tool. I've done it on a very small scale. The build this tallest tower game. Great game, by the way. If you ever done build the tallest tower.
daniel (16:01.486)
I think I've built something like it, yeah.
Scott (16:03.137)
Yeah, build tallest tower for anybody that doesn't know is you give everybody in a room a bucket full of Tinker toys or whatever. And you tell everybody that they can't talk to the other teams at all. You can't use you could you could sign language, whatever, whatever, but you can't talk to them. And whoever builds the tallest tower wins. Right. So go. And so what happens in that moment is everybody does a very human thing, which is like, OK, I'm going to go ahead and use everything I've got. And.
I'm going to build this tower and I'm going to, you know, creatively find ways to make it as tall as it can be. Like I've had people at a hotel go all the way up to the top floor of the hotel and lean over and say, is this it? And we're like, I'm like, no, no, no. And eventually what would they eventually figure out that the goal of the game is to actually work together, combine all their Tinker toys or Legos or whatever and build a tower. And that's the tallest tower. But.
There is a surprising a lot of failure going on and a surprising a lot of learning that goes on in that aha moment, right? Steal This is a great, great game for team building where they realize, oh, what Scott really wanted me to do was work together, right? So boom, boom. And so you don't have to have the dark souls of training to have those aha moments for people to learn. And oh, by the way, that everybody will remember.
Zeta (17:21.702)
Oh yeah.
Scott (17:30.689)
I'm going to remember that forever. Those are amazing moments that are built upon failure. So the challenge really is like, yeah, so there's a neuroscientist part of it and all the other nerdy stuff that dad's going to bring into it. But what can we do to bring in those moments where people struggle? Oh, man, we don't want to do that. We want to make learning easy. But.
Zeta (17:51.398)
Thank you.
Scott (17:55.329)
We had one of our friends of the show, Julia Phelan on several times. We're going to have her on again for episode 100, everybody. So get ready for that. Whoop, whoop, right? Learning is hard and supposed to be hard. And when it's not hard, it's not as effective. Like, make it hard. Let's make learning hard. And I got to tell you, one of the hardest things right now that I'm going through is like, what's the value of learning, right? And because there's no unified standard of what.
Zeta (18:03.59)
Nice.
Scott (18:22.977)
Values of learning the everybody's kind of dumb dumbed it down to like make it as fast as possible If I make it as fast as possible by definition has to be kind of easy in order to get get through and does that stick I don't know. I don't know One of the thing that I do think is really cool if I can piggyback back to and I'm rambling But we're gonna keep this in folks Scott rim, so That that reflecting on what you've learned super important
I can't remember who said it, but learning only happens when we think about what we learned. So that reflection on failure is important, but you could also reflect on the entire learning at the end. When you're in design, make sure you have that moment built in there for reflection. What am I going to do with this? Because otherwise, it's like, I just ate a beautiful chocolate fudge sundae, and it was delicious. Thank you. And that's all I'm going to remember is that I had a beautiful chocolate fudge sundae.
And that's it. What am I going to do with that chocolate fudge sundae? I don't know. That's a good question. Anyway, other thoughts on that?
daniel (19:29.294)
So, you know, you bring up failure and you bring up like, how do we get it to work and how do we get it into our learning? And I think we've touched on it in other episodes, but psychological safety. And I think like too often, training and learning and development feel like tests and they feel like, oh, like, hey, I have to get this knowledge to transfer and we've got to do it to what you just said as fast as possible.
Scott (19:43.937)
Mmm.
daniel (19:58.926)
And because we're focused on as fast as possible, we get in this mindset set at the top show failure is not an option. But failure is an option. And when you give people the freedom to fail, they have fun failing. And when they have fun failing, they're actually having fun learning. Scott, you talked about build the tallest tower game and how everybody has a good time and they're all like trying to build this stuff and all the towers are collapsing. And I'm sure it's wild and chaotic and there's a lot of laughter and fun. At least I hope there is.
Scott (20:27.713)
Mm -hmm.
daniel (20:29.454)
That's because there's no stress. There's no punishment for failure other than starting again. They know that they have a goal. They know that there is a test. There's other people in the room. Other teams are building these towers. So there's a competition going on. But you've removed the idea that failure will make them less. And instead failure becomes part of the purpose of the activity. Failure becomes...
The goal. It's not really the goal. The goal is, can you work well together with each other well enough to build these crazy towers? Teamwork is the goal. But when everyone feels safe with one another and isn't afraid to be the guy who knocked over the Jenga tower, you can start to do really cool and amazing things. I go back to like 82 % of executives say that failure is a necessary part of innovation. Well, yeah, it is because if everyone's sitting around going,
Man, I really hope I'm not the guy who breaks it. Nobody's going to touch it. Nobody's going to do it. You talked about points of reflection. And I think like that is that's so important. I would go even so far as upfront in training to tell people this training is going to have failure in it. We're going to talk about failure. There's going to be points of failure. Failure is OK in this training.
This training is about getting you to be competent in a task, a skill, a knowledge, whatever. We expect you to fail along the way. I, uh, the guy who got me into training, uh, my mentor, uh, I have two quick stories. My very first class, he hired me, uh, because I'm sure because I kept bothering him to hire me and also because, uh, I.
played and ran Dungeons and Dragons and that's what got me my first job in learning and development. But my first class was awful. To those of you guys who were in my first class, I apologize. We went to go take the first test at the end of the week and it was like a 60 % fail rate, which is bad. I mean, super bad. And like, I am pouring buckets on like, I'm like, oh my God, I messed up. I've ruined all of these people's careers.
daniel (22:54.094)
You know, this guy who put a lot of faith in me, I've let him down, I have failed. I have failed everything I could possibly fail, and I thought I wasn't failing, but now I'm here and I failed. And, you know, he looked at me and he gave me two quick messages. He said, first, hey, it's just the first week. There's plenty of time to get things back on track. And I was like, oh man, thank God. But then...
He looked at me and said, you know, training isn't for everybody. And. Yeah, and. But. We talk about motivation like. He told me failure is OK. He still told me that like, hey, at the end of the day, we still do need to get to success. We still need to pass the course. We still need to like get this knowledge.
Zeta (23:27.974)
Oh, ouch.
daniel (23:51.502)
but it was okay that we failed at this first attempt. And I can't think of a better thing that like whipped me into being a decent trainer. I don't wanna say I was good or great, I was decent. But without that, without that acceptance and knowing that I could try things and fail, and without that knowledge that like...
I knew where I had to go. I knew where success was important and I knew where failure was allowed. That gave me so much psychological safety to try and do new things. I've shared it here. Literally, I built a whole new curriculum for a course that I probably shouldn't have been allowed to because I had the freedom to fail a little bit. That's what opened up my career into the rest of my professional learning and development career. It was amazing.
Zeta (24:47.526)
So what you're saying is by trying something out, especially when you're trying out something at the start and doing it on your own rather than like following a script or a specific guideline, you are allowed to try something and fail, but also have a moment of like, of learning of going, oh wait, I can't do it that way. Maybe we can do it this way. And I'm also gonna bring in a Maslow's hierarchy of needs. You can't,
actually start to learn until your basic needs are set, right? There's like different kind of tiers. I'm not gonna go through all of them, but like you need all your basics. You need to be fed, slept well, but psychological safety and having that safe space is so key. It's so essential to make sure that you have the ability and also the space, the learning environment to be able to attempt that. And it also teaches you that there can be more than one path to success, right? And I think that's a really good valid.
thing to take away from that.
Scott (25:51.105)
All right, designers, and I need you guys to help me. Dan, Zeta.
I don't really reverse engineer it, right? So I'm putting the chorus together.
How do we build failure into our course? What are some things that, I mean, honestly, to be honest with you, I think it's one of the things that we should strive for. So every time we're putting something together, like, let's try to figure that out. Like, can you always do it? Probably not, right? But how do I do that? Like, oh, I think I hear you. I'm on the bus. We're good. I agree with you. It's great. But how do I do it? Oh, we'll put the build the tallest tower game in there because Shooty said that that was great. But.
How do I rep -
daniel (26:35.63)
I think you start with the impossible question. I was talking about the guy who got me into training, his name's Aaron, and he wanted to build what he called a backwards class. And the backwards class started with...
I want you guys to use this system and I want you to input this customer information. And this is like day one. It's ridiculous. Nobody has the skill set. Nobody has the knowledge to do that. They all just kind of looked at each other like, uh, and when he was like, what's wrong, they're like, how do, how do I get there? Like, I don't know how to do that. Today's our first day. And he's like, that's right. He was, what do you guys think you need to do this?
And they were like, well, I guess I'd need to know like my login. Like, oh, that's great. That's a really good idea. Let's talk about your guys's logins. But he built this moment where everyone in the class went, oh, and they're all looking at each other and they're all kind of nervous. It's their first day. But he told them as soon as they had that moment of failure that I can't do this, he said, that's fine. Of course you shouldn't be able to. We haven't done it yet.
What do you think you need to get there? We've talked about for adult learner theory, building the value of the knowledge. The training has to have value to the learner. If I just give you a bunch of facts and then I ask you a question about it later, that's not value. You've just done recitation. Good job. But if I start by asking the impossible question, hey, I'm building a training and I'm building it on soft skills and I throw...
A script with an angry customer at you right out the gate and I'm like, okay, cool. You've got five seconds. You need to tell me that, you know, click on the next thing you need to answer. Go, go, go. And you click on it and I hit you with, you know, the customer's angry response because more than likely you've gotten it wrong unless you already know soft skills, but more likely you've gotten it wrong. And I'm like, cool. Here's the angry customer. They're yelling at you, they're mad at you. And then I immediately say, that's okay. The test was unfair.
daniel (28:52.27)
It was purposely unfair. And what I want to do now is tell you how we get to the right answer. We talked about how like dopamine gives you motivation and I've just dumped a bunch of motivation on you. I've built a scenario where you were set up to fail and I've said, it's okay, you were supposed to fail.
You did everything right. With the knowledge and information you had, you didn't fail.
You missed correctly. I don't know. But failure is awesome. And you did what you were supposed to do. Now let's figure out what that looks like when you have the knowledge. And now that knowledge has value and weight and meaning and significance. So that was a really long -winded way of saying, ask obnoxious questions first.
Zeta (29:45.51)
Oh yeah, making it relevant to your learner is so essential. I would probably present like a problem solving situation to your audience and see how they would be able to navigate that situation. Of course, given time constraints, if you do have to power through that course and you won't have space for it, you won't be able to do that. But in a perfect world, you do. And so you can present that problem solving.
Try to let them do it. And if they fail, that's okay. Show them the next steps. Let them try it. Let them iterate. It's okay. Try the next steps. Until at the very ends, you have that situation or one that's similar. And then they're able to navigate it and go, oh, oh, wow. Like give them that aha moment. I think that would also be helpful when you're designing.
Scott (30:37.857)
Mm -hmm.
Scott (30:41.377)
I always like the curve ball. So got to build an activity into your learning because it's going to help the learning. It's great. Always be thinking in the back of your head, what curve ball can I throw at them in the middle of this? That'll just send everything sideways. Because in life, that's kind of what happens, right? There are some of us out there where this never happens. And I want to know you. You should be my best friend because if for me, everything kind of goes sideways.
Zeta (31:08.614)
Me too.
Scott (31:11.201)
All time. And we need to be able to have people navigate the things that we're trying to teach them by throwing them a curveball that they don't expect. There was I've been doing sales training for a long time and a lot of times like, oh, you know what we're going to do is if you're a customer here, you're going to say yes every time because I want that person to feel good. And I'm not necessarily thinking that that's always bad. But so the curveball, hey, you're by the way, this is way more fun.
You're the nasty customer that has excuses all day long and they're going to have to practice overcoming objections, which I think is probably a more realistic skill than the customer always says yes to the things that I'm trying to get them to do. So what is that curve ball? And by the way, that curve ball can also teach other things that are equally as important. So don't have enough resources, don't have enough time. How do we work?
together better. All those things can be put into the curveball of stuff. So as you're designing, love what you're talking about. Love the I'm going to ask the impossible questions and give the impossible task and you're going to fail. By the way, I've done that works really well. Bad directions work really, really well. And oh, they do. It's great. But that curveball thing doesn't work. Excuse me, doesn't it works incredibly well. Like, oh, OK, cool. And then.
Zeta (32:29.286)
Thank you.
Scott (32:38.721)
have a discussion about, well, what happened? Well, you threw a curve ball at us and this happened and this happened. Okay, well, what did we learn? So we were putting that moment of reflection in there and it becomes a really powerful thing. So as we begin to wrap things up, Zeta, Dan, anything else you wanna add to our discussion around failure?
Zeta (32:57.542)
Don't be afraid of failure. It will teach you to stand on your own, try new things and not to back down and be like, hey, if I make a mistake, I'm gonna learn from it.
daniel (33:10.158)
I think for a larger perspective, and I've shared this with Zayda, I've shared it with others, every day I task myself with being wrong about three things. I'll read something and be like, oh, I was wrong about that, and I'll make a note of it. Or I'll take a different way to work to see if it's faster or slower.
They're all little things. They're all, this sounds silly, but like that's, that's my big thing every day is like, Hey, my, my job is to be wrong. And I need to be wrong about at least three things. So that way I can keep growing and I can keep developing. And that's what I would, I would push all of our listeners is tomorrow. I want you to go out and I want you to go be wrong about some things. I want you to go be, I want you to go make mistakes and I want you.
to use those to keep growing, to keep learning, to keep developing, keep being awesome.
Scott (34:20.321)
All right, learning is awesome, everybody. That's right.
Far too clean of an episode for saying that we weren't gonna edit it, so let's make some mistakes as we make our outro. So Daniel -san! Yeah! I was kidding.
daniel (34:38.35)
Yes Scott.
Zeta (34:40.07)
HAHA
Scott (34:42.689)
Woohoo! Hey, could you go ahead?
Can you go ahead and let everybody know how they could get in contact with us?
daniel (34:54.542)
Absolutely. All right party people you guys know the drill email us at nerds at the learning nerds comm Email us any questions I have joining on the conversation this week. Why don't you share with us? some of the big important beneficial Failures you've had in your life the good mistakes we want to know about them We want to hear about them if you're on Facebook you can find us at learning nerds
All of our Instagram peeps can find us, FabLearningNerds. And lastly, for more information about us, what we do, and any updates, www .thelearningnerds .com. Scott, right back at you.
Scott (35:37.281)
Hey everybody, thanks Dan. Do me a favor, could you go ahead and hit that subscribe button, hit that like button, share this episode out with your groovy friends, tell them to watch X -Men 95, and then listen to this fantastic episode, because it's got good stuff in it. And also do me a favor, could you go ahead and leave us a review, because it'll help us get more people on the Fabulous Learning Nerds Clue Train, and they can be better just like you.
Oh, and then we can get better as well and point out all the mistakes that you find out here in this show. And with that, I'm Scott.
daniel (36:11.118)
I'm Dan.
Zeta (36:12.518)
Zeta.
Scott (36:14.721)
and we're your Fabulous Learning Nerds and we are out.