The AAA Storage Podcast

Disclaimer: This episode is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not investment, legal, tax, or accounting advice, and it is not an offer to sell or a solicitation to buy any security. Consult your own CPA, tax advisor, and legal counsel before making any decision about a retirement account or an investment. Past performance is not indicative of future results, and all investments carry risk, including the loss of principal.

In this episode, Paul Bennett explains how self-directed IRAs and Solo 401(k)s actually work, why leveraged real estate inside a self-directed IRA can trigger Unrelated Business Income Tax, and the loophole that lets qualifying investors avoid that tax altogether, even on assets they’ve already invested.

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Chapters
[00:00] Introduction: why self-directed accounts matter for private real estate investors
[01:51] What a self-directed IRA and Solo 401(k) actually are
[06:40] How money moves between accounts and the mistake that triggers taxes
[09:49] Why your custodian isn’t your investment advisor
[14:12] The tax bill most investors don’t see coming: Unrelated Business Income Tax
[16:46] The loophole: why a solo 401(k) changes the math
[21:16] Who this strategy is for
[26:27] Closing thoughts and what’s coming next episode

Creators and Guests

Host
Paul Bennett
Managing Director at AAA Storage

What is The AAA Storage Podcast?

Investing in self storage gives you the fundamentals and growth you need to grow your portfolio. But skip the opportunities from golf buddies and gurus—invest in a real track record. Started by John Muhich in 1993, AAA Storage has delivered 19% IRR across 90 deals, totaling $450M in exits. Listen to our expert insights on investing from the AAA Storage team. See more at aaastorageinvestments.com.

Paul: Doesn't take but about $15,000
of unrelated business income in a

self-directed IRA to generate a 37% tax.

I found a loophole, and it was worth
all the boring research I had to do.

I don't care if you deliver
newspapers or mow lawns,

be an Uber, it doesn't matter.

You could have $2 million in a
self-directed IRA, with investments

that you've already made, find a way
to qualify to open a solo 401(k),

roll over those existing investments,
transfer them into the solo 401(k)

and UBIT taxes are no longer an issue.

Welcome to the AAA storage podcast,
your integrated real estate and

development partner, exploring all
things, self storage investing to

bring you diversified success.

Let's dive in.

Brandon Giella: Today, we're gonna
be talking about using your IRA or

401to invest in private real estate,
but not just any IRA or 401, a

self-directed and solo IRA and 401,
which is an important distinction.

And I have to disclaim that
there's a lot of tedium here.

There's a lot of acronyms,
there's a lot of details.

We're talking about taxes.

We're talking about all kinds of stuff.

We are not, uh, your legal team.

This is not legal or financial advice.

This is purely educational, and
we are talking as friends about

some of these detailed things.

So please consult your advisor.

Please consult your CPA.

Um, but there is a point to all this,
why we're talking about these things.

It matters a lot when you invest
in certain assets, particularly

leveraged real estate, and there
is a bombshell that Paul is gonna

drop on us here in a little bit.

So Paul, we are, uh, talking as
self-employed people, and lots of folks

that are listening are self-employed
business owners, and they have retirement

funds that they might feel are trapped
in an IRA or a 401, and they can't

invest in real estate or other private
or alternative assets as a result.

But that may not be the case.

There are things that we can do.

But in order to understand those, we
have to talk about some of the tedious

mechanics of what these accounts
are, what you can and can't do.

And again, this is not advice.

We're just talking.

Um, so Paul, talk to us a little bit about
what is a self-directed IRA and a solo

401, and maybe some distinctions between
those two and the more traditional SEP

IRA or regular IRA or 401, and kinda how
that works out when you're investing.

Paul: Yeah, Brandon, first of all,
it's always fun to be together.

Um, but I think most everybody knows
what a- a- an IRA is, um, and, and, and

a and they probably have one or both,
um, with their employer or individually.

self-directed IRA and the Solo
401, which is actually the newest

sort of vehicle that's, that's
been created, are not different

accounts your IRA, your traditional
IRA, or your Roth IRA, um, or your

They're…

it's simply administered differently, and
the biggest difference is that you have

a much broader choice of investments.

As the name self-directed implies, you
have a much broader choice of investments.

In a traditional IRA or a Roth IRA or
within your 401, you basically have a

suite of funds, ETFs, you know, stocks
and bonds that you can invest in.

The self-directed IRA and the Solo
401allow you to invest in private equity,

real estate, um, any number of, of
alternative assets in addition to the,

uh, the traditional market-based assets.

So, but it's not a different account, and
they have very different characteristics,

as we'll talk about in just a minute.

There's, um, some really
interesting differences between

an IRA and a, and a Um, they're
simply administered differently.

In a self-directed IRA, the cons-
custodian controls the money.

In other words, you send the money
to Schwab or Fidelity or whoever your

custodian is for your self-directed IRA,
basically, when you make an investment,

they send that money to the sponsor,
if we're gonna talk about private real

estate funds, um, at your direction.

In a, in a Solo 401, actually
have the checkbook, um, and you're

the ones who disper- you're the
one who disperses the funds.

Um, with that flexibility comes a
little bit more responsibility for

being compliant and avoiding some of
the things you're not allowed to do in

a 401and, and a, uh, and an IRA, which
we'll talk about maybe in just a minute.

But that kind of gives you the overview.

Again, they're not different accounts.

They're not different types of accounts.

A self-directed IRA is not different
than an IRA, except for you have a much

broader, uh, band of investments that you
can select from, and you can actually…

have a number of investors in Growth
Fund I and Growth Fund II who have

invested via their self-directed
IRA, um, or their Solo 401.

Much more on the self-directed IRA
side, fewer on the Solo 401because a

lot of people aren't familiar with it

Brandon Giella: Yeah, I, to be honest,
have never heard of a so-solo 401.

I don't have a 401anymore.

It's all IRA for me now, but,
uh, and, and my wife as well.

But yeah, solo 401is, is new for me.

So how do, h-how does, how do I
move money within these accounts?

I mean, I know there's rollovers.

I know on, on Reddit years ago, it was the
mega backdoor Roth conversion, you know,

and all these kind of different things.

But yeah, talk to me a
little bit about that.

Paul: Well, w- I'm gonna
back up one second just to

Brandon Giella: Yeah

Paul: The Solo 401requires that you have
self-employment income and that you have

no employees other than your spouse.

You can have your spouse as an employee.

So it's a type of retirement account
was created for people, um, be able

And it actually has a little bit
higher contribution limits than a,

than an IRA does on an annual basis.

There's a little bit
of an advantage there.

The, the, the big advantage to the Solo
401is you can be a W-2 employee and have

a 401or IRA with your employer, but
if you qualify because you have a

side gig, say you're a speaker or
a consultant or, uh, a freelancer

in, in your world, in the marketing
world, or, um, in my case, I sit on a

number of boards of private companies.

I get paid to do that.

That's done as a sole proprietorship.

It's not my W-2 income.

If I meet those requirements, I can have
a Solo 401in addition to whatever other

retirement accounts I have, and that, that
opens up a really interesting strategy

we'll talk about here in just a little bit

Brandon Giella: Okay.

Okay.

So, uh, uh, how, how do we
move money into these accounts?

How do we set these things up?

What is rollovers?

What is…

Like, walk me through how do I get
money in and out of this thing?

Paul: So a, a couple different…

And it's, it's really, it's
not rocket science, but maybe

it's confusing some people.

If today you're sitting there and you
have an IRA, um, a traditional IRA or

a Roth IRA that you cannot invest in
leveraged real estate or private equity or

all the things we've been talking about,
you have a very limited investment menu.

can open a self-directed IRA and roll
over the proceeds from your traditional

IRA into the self-directed IRA.

can transfer a portion of those funds
into the self-directed IRA, or you

can simply make your next year's
contribution to that self-directed

IRA instead of your traditional IRA.

Or you can do a combination
of all three of those.

But it's, it's fairly easy in today's
world, um, to add a self-directed IRA

account to your retirement portfolio
by simply contacting, like we've

already said, Schwab or Fidelity.

We need to send them an
invoice for the advertising.

But, um, but, uh, you know, uh, there is
a, a myriad of different, uh, custodians

out there on the self-directed side.

And

Brandon Giella: Okay

Paul: interested in, um, in, in working
with one a-and, and you want to, reach

out to Andrew Frohlich in my office.

Andrew handles all our IRA
investments, and, uh, he can tell

you which custodians seem to be the
easiest to work with and, and, uh,

Brandon Giella: Interesting.

Paul: of thing.

But,

Brandon Giella: There we go

Paul: but anyway, but it's fairly easy.

You c- you, you open this new
self-directed IRA account, then you

can move funds from existing accounts,
make new contributions, or roll an

entire Roth or a traditional IRA
over into your self-directed IRA.

Uh, obviously you'd have to liquidate
whatever securities you own in that

traditional IRA in order to move the cash.

But you can put it in a self-directed
IRA multiple ways and then

open up the opportunity to make
investments in the private markets

Brandon Giella: And so that is all
handled on the custodian side, and then

Paul: Yep

Brandon Giella: guys as a sponsor,
those are different relationships,

different ways you're working together

Paul: are custodian to
custodian transfers.

What you don't wanna do…

Now, again, we're not giving advice
here, but, and I'm certainly no expert.

This is an area I'm not
an expert in at all.

Brandon Giella: I am

Paul: what the thing you don't wanna do
is take a distribution from your IRA, put

the money in your own account, and then
deposit it in your self-directed IRA.

You've taken constructive receipt of
the money at that point, and there's

gonna be taxes and penalties due.

Um, so it really needs to be a
custodian to custodian transfer when

you're opening a new self-directed
IRA, and then funding it out of

your existing retirement accounts

Brandon Giella: Okay.

Okay, that's helpful.

This is, this is why I
don't touch this stuff.

I have no idea what the fees
and penalties are for all this.

Uh, okay.

Cool.

Okay.

So, um, when we get to, let's
say we have this money, we've

got all our accounts set up.

We're, we're working with our custodian,
we're working with our CPA, our financial

advisor, and so on, and now I'm ready
to make an investment into leveraged

private real estate, an alternative asset.

What does that look like?

Like, uh, from your perspective especially

Paul: f- first of all, and I always
try to find things to, to bring to our

audience that are either misperceptions
or things people might not know, um,

that, that would have them pay a dumb tax,
um, you know, but for not knowing them.

Brandon Giella: Yes

Paul: so the first thing to know
is that the custodian is not, in

a self-directed IRA environment,
is not an investment advisor.

They're not doing any due diligence
on the deals you bring them, and the

mere fact that they're willing to
hold, take custody of that investment

for you within your self-directed
IR- IRA, is not an endorsement of

the investment by the custodian.

And I think some people think, "Well,
you know, I had to send them the offer

material, so they must have looked
at it and, and thought it was a good

enough deal that they would let me

Brandon Giella: I see.

Paul: Not the case at all.

They're only looking at compliance issues.

They're making sure that you're not
self-dealing, that you're not dealing

with a disqualified person, uh, that
it's not a prohibited transaction.

That's the only reason they
ask for the offering documents.

And again, to define sort of the,
the drivel in this, a prohibited

transaction is generally one in which
you benefit directly the short term

from whatever investment you're making.

An example would be if you tried
to buy a vacation home with your

self-directed IRA money that you
actually plan to use yourself.

Um, or you were buying a pro- piece
of property from your wife or your

uncle, where the proceeds are gonna
wind up back in your pocket or, or

very close to back in your pocket.

Those are the things that are prohibited
in any retirement account, um, and

particularly the self-directed IRA.

So the, the custodian's job is simply,
again, um, to, to be the record keeper

and the compliance officer and make
sure you don't do things that are

not allowed under the regulations.

As a sponsor, we work
with a custodian directly.

It's very helpful when our investors
can give us a direct contact with the

custodian, because every custodian
wants different documentation, and

every custodian titles your IRA ac-
account, the investments you make in

your self-directed IRA differently.

And at the end of the day, the
title on the self-directed IRA

account for this investment for the
owner of this investment and your

subscription documents have to match.

So Andrew, as I've already mentioned,
handles all of this for us internally.

He will actually call the, the,
the contact at the custodian,

talk to them directly, find
out what documents they need.

They often want the offering memorandum
or the LLC A, uh, the LLC agreement.

We'll send them directly to the custodian.

They go through a review process.

Again, it's not due diligence.

They're not looking at the, uh,
whether it's a good deal or a bad deal.

They're simply looking for
prohibited transactions.

Um- And it usually takes a fairly short
period of time, a matter of a few days

before they approve the investment, uh,
before you and your self-directed IRA.

and, and then at that point, we make
sure we know how it needs to be titled,

help you complete the subscription
documents, and then we actually provide

our investors with a capital call notice
that they send to their custodian with

the wire instructions, so the custodian
wires the money directly from their

self-directed IRA account to the fund
account that they're investing in

Brandon Giella: Which makes it seem easier
than having to do this all on your own.

Andrew's there to help.

Custodian's there to help.

This is good.

Okay.

Paul: Yeah.

Brandon Giella: Okay

Paul: the, the, the, I think,
again, with a solo 401, you

actually have the checkbook.

Brandon Giella: Yeah

Paul: and you have the
responsibility to make sure that

it's not a prohibited transaction.

So with a solo 401, it's
a little bit easier.

You already, you know, know the, the,
the name, the legal name of your solo

401, and you've got the checkbook for
the account that the money's sitting in.

So you actually write the ch- uh,
wire the funds directly to us.

You do all that yourself.

Um-

Brandon Giella: So we're
going somewhere with this.

Paul: Yeah

Brandon Giella: There is, uh, some
downsides for investing using these kinds

of accounts in leveraged real estate.

Talk to me about that, but talk
to me about a, uh, potential

discovery that you've made

Paul: Yeah, so th-there is,
there, there is a concept called

unrelated business income, uh, in a
self-directed or a traditional IRA.

It doesn't really become an issue
in a traditional IRA 'cause you

can only in-invest in, you know, in
stocks and bonds and mutual funds.

But in a self-directed IRA, um, and in
particular for leverage real estate,

there is unrelated debt-financed income.

The use of leverage produces
unrelated business income that is

taxed within the IRA, and it's taxed
at the trust tax schedule, which is

a fairly compressed tax schedule.

Doesn't take but about $15,000
of unrelated business income in a

self-directed IRA to generate a, uh,
37% tax Um, and so, the good news is

the way we're leveraged at about 65%
loan to cost in the, in the development

world, which is a fairly aggressive
level of, of, of, of leverage.

If you do the math, and again,
you've gotta talk to your advisor,

don't take my word for this.

I'm not giving legal, tax,
or, or accounting advice.

But generally speaking, the
unrelated business income tax that

the IRA, the self-directed IRA
will incur is equal to or less

than long-term capital gains taxes.

and so you're not putting yourself at
a disadvantage had you used funds that

weren't in a retirement account and
invested directly with us, but you may not

be getting the totally tax-free treatment
that you think you're going to get.

Because w- when you use leverage, not just
us, any … If you were buying existing

assets that were leveraged 50% loan to
acquisition cost, um, at the end of the

day, um, the income that it produces, a
portion of that is attributed to the debt

that was used, and a portion of the value,
the gain when you sell it, is attributed

to the debt that was used to buy the
asset, and that portion of it is subject

to the unrelated business income tax.

so I, I, I, I don't wanna discourage
people from using self-directed IRA money.

Um, I you know, the great thing about
self-directed IRA money is when you

contribute it, you get to, to, to
deduct it from your current income,

so you're getting a tax benefit there.

And you're certainly not getting any
worse tax treatment on the way out.

And often, it's the only significant
pool of money, or not the only,

but one of the significant pools
of money that people have to invest

Brandon Giella: Yeah

Paul: private real estate.

So I'm not discouraging you, but
you need to be eyes wide open.

You need to talk to your tax advisor and
begin to, um, uh, understand what taxes

your self-directed IRA may be subject to.

In our fund, because we are developing,
stabilizing, and selling assets, and

really not distributing cash flow
during the holding period, 'cause

we're leasing the assets up, there
really is no significant or noticeable

unrelated business income that's
generated until we sell the property.

But when we start to sell assets at
growth fund one, growth fund two, and

ultimately growth fund three and beyond,
um, it is certainly possible that those

self-directed IRA investors are gonna
be subject to some level of taxation.

And it's not a personal tax.

They don't send you the invoice.

It has to be paid out of the IRA
proce- uh, out of the IRA, so.

Um, but I found a loophole, and,
uh, it was worth all the boring

research I had to do to make sure I,
I understood all this well enough to

have this conversation with you And it
really ties to two, a couple things.

Number one, a Solo 401(k is not subject
to unrelated business income tax.

it's a different type of legal entity
than a self-directed or traditional

IRA, and the, the laws do not provide
for the unrelated business income tax

in the, in a 401(k vehicle including
the s- the Solo 401(k The, the second

thing that I learned is really the key
is that once you qualify to open a Solo

401(k remembering that you can be a W-2
employee, you can make 98% of your income

as a W-2 employee, but if you have a
side gig, if you consult on the side,

sit on boards on the side, freelance on
the side, you can come up with anything.

I don't care if you deliver
newspapers or mow lawns.

Brandon Giella: I was about
to say, you're an Uber driver.

Paul: yeah, be an Uber it doesn't matter.

it doesn't matter Um, a- and you have
self-employment income and no other

employees other than your spouse, you're
allowed to have one employee and it's

your spouse, you qualify to open a, a Solo

401(k Mm-hmm.

401.

And I would encourage everybody who's
listening to this podcast who's interested

in investing private real estate or other
alternative assets using a retirement

vehicle and funds in a retirement vehicle
to do it, to find a way to create some

side income that qualifies you for a
Solo 401'cause here's the magic, Brandon.

Once you open it, once you qualify
to open a Solo 401, you can roll

every other retirement asset you have
in any of the retirement plans, the

traditional IRAs, Roth IRA, self-directed
IRA, doesn't matter, you can roll

them all over into the Solo 401(k

and now invest freely in the
alternative assets that are

leveraged without being subject to
the unrelated business income tax.

And so, it's…

I would have assumed that the only
monies, because it, it is different than

the, the IRA regulations, the only money
you could put into that self, that Solo

401would be your contributions that you're
allowed to make based on your, your,

s- you know, your self-employed income.

That's not the case.

You can actually roll over.

You could have, uh, $2 million in a
self-directed IRA with investments

that you've already made that are
ultimately gonna be subject to the UBIT.

Find a way to, to, to qualify
to open a Solo 401(k Move all…

Roll over those existing investments.

transfer them into the, um, Solo 401(k the
and the UBIT taxes are no longer an issue.

And for some, that could be
a really substantial play.

Again, you gotta talk to your
tax advisor, get good advice.

This is just idea time.

It's not advice time.

But, uh, that's a pretty significant
opportunity for people to avoid paying

taxes, um, you know, in the, in the
retirement account investments that

they make in the private markets,
particularly if they're leveraged, so

Brandon Giella: Make this
more concrete for me.

Is this better for younger investors,
older investors, newer, you know, newer

to the, the world of investing like this?

I mean, it sounds like a lot of paperwork
and things that you gotta figure out and,

you know, you gotta meet with different,
uh, uh, folks to get good advice on this.

But, uh, who, who should really
be dialed in on this kind of,

uh, uh, of strategy, if you will?

Paul: so if you're, uh, let's,
let's be real for a minute.

Um, real estate is a great investment.

Um, to really get meaningful
returns, it, it generally requires

the use of leverage, right?

Brandon Giella: Yeah, sure.

Yeah

Paul: uh, I mean, you can buy real es-
you can buy commercial real estate for

cash, and it'll cash flow really well, um,
because you don't have any debt to pay.

Um, but generally speaking, the
appreciation side of the game

is greatly enhanced by leverage.

Brandon Giella: Yeah, of course

Paul: and so-

I'm going to assume that anybody that's
listening to us today that is invested

in or considering investing in real
estate is more than likely gonna invest

in l-real estate that includes leverage,
and it's the leverage that creates

the unrelated business income tax.

So whether you're a 30-something-year-old,
um, i-at the beginning of your wealth

accumulation phase of your life and
invested in things like growth fund II,

where there's not a lot of cash flow,
but there's significant appreciation,

um, using the Solo 401k, finding
a way to qualify, and then rolling

your assets into that account so you
can avoid the UBIT, the u- unrelated

business income tax, will make a
difference for you in the long term.

If you're a 65-year-old
and you're buying exist…

you're investing in existing assets
primarily for cash flow, and those assets

are leveraged, it's a, in a fund, a
individual, you know, single property

structure, an oil and gas income fund
that uses leverage at all, if you put

them in your self-directed IRA, you're
gonna be subject to UBIT more than likely.

If you find a way to qualify and, and open
up that Solo 401k and roll those assets

into the Solo 401k, 'cause the, the UBIT
applies to income that's generated too.

Um, so even for an older investor
who's, who's income oriented, not

appreciation oriented, moving into a
Solo 401k helps you avoid some level of

taxation within your retirement account.

So it…

every situation is different.

Everybody should sort of look
at their own objectives and,

and listen to their advisor.

But I, dare to say it, it really could
apply t- across the spectrum: young, old,

in the middle, the whole shooting match

Brandon Giella: What I, what I
like about this idea, this, this

conversation in general is it's things
I know almost nothing about, which is

always great 'cause I get to learn.

But also, I think that, uh, folks
that are really wanting to accumulate

wealth, uh, and, and invest in…

You know, I, I like the, the
investing in a team and in people

who know what they're doing.

They're the experts, you
know, and you guys have, have

demonstrated that over the decades.

But also, uh, you are able to take
advantage of a lot more options.

You're a lot-- You're, you're
able to be a lot more creative.

All legal, all wonderful structures
that are available to, to people who

qualify, but you're able to really
capitalize on the different structures,

entities, stations in life that allow
you to, to do this, and I, I think

it's really fascinating that, um, there
are, call them loopholes, call them

creative options, that allow you to
invest in things that are above and

beyond the S&P 500 and the total return
and all that, but in things that are,

um, good for you for, for a long time.

And I, I think this is a really
cool option to, to explore, and

that, and that's how I feel like
I need to go research this more.

Um, but yeah, it's fascinating

Paul: Well, I mean, in your situation,
for example, Brandon, you're,

you're in the advertising world.

I would imagine there are opportunities,
or maybe you're even structured,

um, already in a way that would
allow you to open a solo 401.

Brandon Giella: Yeah, probably.

Yeah

Paul: if you aren't at a point where
you're ready to start making substantial

investments in the, in the alternative
world, um, if you qualify, get one open,

Brandon Giella: Yeah

Paul: put a, put a few dollars in
it, and invest it in a money market

fund or where- but get it open.

Because 10 years from now, it may
be a vehicle that allows you to

avoid paying taxes that otherwise
might have been unavoidable.

Um, and, uh, so it's, you know, you
don't have to, you don't have to remain

qualified, you just have to be qualified
at the point you open the account.

And once it's there, you can
roll funds into it from your

other retirement accounts.

So anyway

Brandon Giella: I have
a phone call to make.

This is great.

Paul: Oh

Brandon Giella: Paul, thank you.

This is, uh, this is, I mean, this is
stuff I would have never found on my

own, obviously, so I appreciate your,
your, your research on this, and I know

your, your big mission in life is to help
people avoid the dumb tax, and I think

you're helping me do that, so thank you.

Paul: got real, I got real excited
because I was not super excited

about this topic when our marketing
director, Caitlin Randall, um, teed

it up for, for this week's episode.

So it was fun to be able to find
something s- new, different, and exciting

within, you know, like you said at the
outset, a, a bunch of information that

o- on the surface isn't super exciting.

Important, but not super

Brandon Giella: Yeah

Paul: been, been fun for sure, and I
would encourage everybody to go to our

website, aaastorageinvestments.com.

Check out the Insights tab Excuse me.

Uh, other episodes of our podcast,
and I really wanna mention that next

episode we're gonna have a special
guest, Paul Shannon, uh, who is a dear

friend and investor with us, um, and
has been on our, our podcast before.

But Paul has written a book
called Both Sides of the Table.

Paul's career, uh, in the
passive investing world has,

has taken many different forms.

He's been an LP in multiple deals.

He's also been a sponsor, um,
of, of a fund or funds, and

he's also been an operator.

Um, not just a, a sponsor allocating
capital, but somebody actually shepherding

capital and investing it on behalf of
investors and managing real estate.

And so he's got a, a s- super well-rounded
view of the world of passive investing,

and his book does an exceptional job
of educating investors, giving them

those perspectives, um, and, and helping
people make better investment decisions

'cause they know what to look for.

And Paul's gonna be a guest on,
on our next episode, and I'm super

excited to have him back, so.

Brandon Giella: I'm just stoked about it.

Yeah, I got a phone call to
make and an Amazon delivery

coming up to get this book.

Paul, thank you so much.

Thank you for putting all this
together and doing the research.

Super grateful for you and the
team, and I'm excited to talk

to the other Paul next time

Paul: Yeah.

We'll s- we'll see you next time.

Thanks a

Brandon Giella: All right.

Thanks, man

Paul: Bye-bye