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From the subtleties of typography to the emotional impact of color, and the way everyday objects influence our lives, our guests share their unique perspectives on the power of design. Through candid interviews, we’ll get a closer look at the challenges they’ve faced, the breakthroughs they’ve had, and how design is not just about aesthetics, but about problem-solving, communication, and making an impact.
Join host Rae, as Type Speaks aims to inspire, inform, and showcase the voices behind the visuals.
This podcast is supported by WEGL 91.1 FM, Auburn University’s radio station. weglfm.com
00:00:02 [Speaker 1]
Welcome into Type Speaks, the show where I dive into the stories, struggles, and sparks of inspiration behind great design.
00:00:09 [Speaker 1]
I'm your host, Ray, and I'm gonna be pulling back the curtain on the creative process, but not just the work itself, but the people who make it happen.
00:00:17 [Speaker 1]
Each episode, I sit down with a different creative mind to uncover how they think and everything in between.
00:00:23 [Speaker 1]
So if you're curious about the why behind design and the stories of the people shaping our world one idea at a time, you're in the right place.
00:00:49 [Speaker 1]
Come in to the twentieth episode of Tice.
00:00:52 [Speaker 1]
I am joined with the wonderful James D'Amato and Dylan.
00:00:57 [Speaker 2]
Appellate.
00:00:58 [Speaker 2]
Appellate.
00:00:59 [Speaker 1]
I knew that.
00:01:00 [Speaker 1]
I have it on my notes.
00:01:01 [Speaker 3]
It's it's a confidence thing.
00:01:03 [Speaker 1]
I just wanted you to say it.
00:01:05 [Speaker 2]
Yeah.
00:01:05 [Speaker 2]
Well and I wanted to say it.
00:01:07 [Speaker 2]
So thank you.
00:01:07 [Speaker 1]
I was letting you it was a gift that I was giving to you.
00:01:11 [Speaker 1]
Yeah.
00:01:11 [Speaker 1]
I got some bios from online, and I'm gonna read them.
00:01:15 [Speaker 1]
So if they're wrong, tell me.
00:01:17 [Speaker 1]
But if they're right, then you don't have to tell me anything.
00:01:19 [Speaker 2]
Okay.
00:01:19 [Speaker 2]
Great.
00:01:20 [Speaker 1]
So James Damato is the author of the ultimate RPG series of One Shot Podcast Network and host of One Shot and campaign SkyJacks Podcasts.
00:01:29 [Speaker 3]
Formerly host of One Shot as the host of One Shot is something
00:01:32 [Speaker 1]
that's You
00:01:32 [Speaker 2]
should edit your social media vibe.
00:01:34 [Speaker 2]
Yeah.
00:01:34 [Speaker 1]
You did.
00:01:35 [Speaker 1]
That's what I found.
00:01:37 [Speaker 1]
Yeah.
00:01:38 [Speaker 1]
You trained at Second City and IO in Chicago in the art of improv comedy, and you now use that education to introduce people to role playing and incorporate improv storytelling techniques to create compelling, entertaining stories for RPG campaigns and one shot adventures.
00:01:52 [Speaker 3]
And the only thing that I'll add to that, because that is be taken from my author bios.
00:01:56 [Speaker 1]
It is.
00:01:57 [Speaker 1]
Yes.
00:01:57 [Speaker 3]
This is my older author bios, is I'm also a game designer, because I forced Simon and Schuster to publish a role playing game.
00:02:04 [Speaker 1]
Mhmm.
00:02:05 [Speaker 1]
Awesome.
00:02:06 [Speaker 1]
Oh, yeah.
00:02:07 [Speaker 1]
I did just take that from Simon and Shuster.
00:02:09 [Speaker 2]
Yeah.
00:02:10 [Speaker 2]
That sounds right.
00:02:11 [Speaker 2]
Yeah.
00:02:11 [Speaker 1]
Mhmm.
00:02:12 [Speaker 1]
It's it's it was good.
00:02:13 [Speaker 3]
They're lax.
00:02:15 [Speaker 3]
Papa Simon and Daddy Shuster, they take their time with updating things.
00:02:21 [Speaker 1]
Yes.
00:02:22 [Speaker 1]
And then, Dylan, you're a game designer
00:02:24 [Speaker 3]
Yep.
00:02:24 [Speaker 1]
And actual play performer based in New York City.
00:02:27 [Speaker 2]
Oh, yeah.
00:02:27 [Speaker 1]
I almost didn't come back.
00:02:29 [Speaker 2]
Yeah.
00:02:29 [Speaker 2]
Because it's the best place in the world.
00:02:31 [Speaker 1]
Oh, no.
00:02:31 [Speaker 1]
Because the snow.
00:02:32 [Speaker 2]
Okay.
00:02:33 [Speaker 2]
City of all time.
00:02:34 [Speaker 2]
And you were almost forced
00:02:35 [Speaker 3]
Sure.
00:02:35 [Speaker 2]
To stay there because of the blizzard.
00:02:37 [Speaker 2]
Blizzard.
00:02:37 [Speaker 3]
And you felt not so bad to be here.
00:02:40 [Speaker 2]
Yeah.
00:02:41 [Speaker 2]
Yeah.
00:02:41 [Speaker 2]
Well, I mean, I barely made it out.
00:02:43 [Speaker 2]
I took off, right before they canceled all travel for, like, two days.
00:02:48 [Speaker 2]
We could've been on the
00:02:49 [Speaker 1]
same flight.
00:02:50 [Speaker 2]
We could've been on the same flight.
00:02:51 [Speaker 2]
That's very true.
00:02:54 [Speaker 1]
Yeah.
00:02:55 [Speaker 1]
You are the host of One Shot Correct.
00:02:56 [Speaker 1]
A legacy podcast that features a new indie TTRPG every month.
00:03:00 [Speaker 2]
Mhmm.
00:03:01 [Speaker 1]
They are a principal cast member on the Atom list and has been featured on Unprepared Casters, Party of One, Adventuring Academy on Dropout, Critter Hug on Critical and more.
00:03:09 [Speaker 1]
And your games seek to spotlight the drama and magic in the unusual and mundane.
00:03:13 [Speaker 2]
Yeah.
00:03:14 [Speaker 1]
Yeah.
00:03:14 [Speaker 1]
You've been, independently making games, and they've been published by Plus One EXP.
00:03:20 [Speaker 1]
And, I wrote they is a contributing writer for City of Mist in Capers.
00:03:25 [Speaker 1]
Yeah.
00:03:25 [Speaker 3]
That's correct.
00:03:26 [Speaker 2]
Hey.
00:03:26 [Speaker 2]
All that's true.
00:03:28 [Speaker 2]
All that is true.
00:03:28 [Speaker 1]
I found
00:03:29 [Speaker 2]
it.
00:03:30 [Speaker 2]
That's amazing.
00:03:31 [Speaker 2]
Actually, there I was nervous when you said that you pulled a bio off the Internet because I have a lot of them floating around, and I and some of them I don't like because I hate writing bios, and I have to do it pretty frequently.
00:03:43 [Speaker 2]
That one is not bad.
00:03:44 [Speaker 2]
Go ahead.
00:03:44 [Speaker 3]
This is actually a chance where I'll I'll address the audience here.
00:03:47 [Speaker 3]
If you're a creative person out there, know that entering into it in a professional way does mean you will have to write a bio for yourself.
00:03:54 [Speaker 3]
You will be forced to describe yourself.
00:03:57 [Speaker 2]
A humiliation ritual is what it is.
00:03:59 [Speaker 2]
One of the greatest criticisms.
00:04:00 [Speaker 2]
It's really dreadful.
00:04:03 [Speaker 2]
Hey.
00:04:03 [Speaker 2]
In three sentences, talk about why anyone should care about anything you've ever done.
00:04:08 [Speaker 3]
Hey.
00:04:08 [Speaker 3]
Yeah.
00:04:08 [Speaker 3]
Justify yourself.
00:04:09 [Speaker 2]
Justify your existence here in a way that's confident yet humble.
00:04:15 [Speaker 1]
Yeah.
00:04:15 [Speaker 1]
For, grad school, they made me write three letters of just that.
00:04:18 [Speaker 1]
Yeah.
00:04:18 [Speaker 1]
And that was awful.
00:04:19 [Speaker 3]
Good lord.
00:04:20 [Speaker 3]
Yeah.
00:04:20 [Speaker 1]
You know?
00:04:21 [Speaker 1]
Because how am I bragging?
00:04:22 [Speaker 1]
I don't know.
00:04:23 [Speaker 1]
Or should I brag?
00:04:24 [Speaker 3]
I yeah.
00:04:25 [Speaker 3]
And the fact that they don't make that clear is infuriating.
00:04:28 [Speaker 1]
So yeah.
00:04:28 [Speaker 1]
But who knows?
00:04:30 [Speaker 1]
Who knows?
00:04:30 [Speaker 1]
Who knows?
00:04:31 [Speaker 2]
But that's where we are.
00:04:32 [Speaker 2]
Yeah.
00:04:32 [Speaker 1]
So we're all designers at this at this table.
00:04:35 [Speaker 1]
Yeah.
00:04:35 [Speaker 1]
You know, for sure.
00:04:36 [Speaker 3]
Fashion for some of us.
00:04:37 [Speaker 3]
Yeah.
00:04:38 [Speaker 1]
Yeah.
00:04:38 [Speaker 1]
So I'm gonna ask this is a question I ask any designer in what field they're in.
00:04:43 [Speaker 1]
Do you define, both of you, good design in tabletop RPGs?
00:04:49 [Speaker 2]
I know I know what I would say to that.
00:04:51 [Speaker 2]
In games, I think that a good design is, when the design, allows the game to communicate what the game designer wanted well to people who aren't there.
00:05:05 [Speaker 2]
So, like, so, like, with a game, you know, unlike with, like, a novel or other kind of, like, you know, finished completed story, like, you don't get to, communicate exactly what was in your mind, in in so many words to the people that are gonna read and engage with it.
00:05:28 [Speaker 2]
You have to communicate, you have to communicate through a set of rules what kind of experience you want people to have.
00:05:39 [Speaker 2]
And if you as a game game designer are not very clear about what you are trying to communicate to people, what you want them to, your game design may not come out very well or may not articulate that.
00:05:53 [Speaker 2]
Somebody may, may pick that up and find it, it doesn't communicate anything specific at all.
00:06:02 [Speaker 2]
I find a game to be well designed when it has a clear communication of what it wants you to experience and then executes that well through the rules, so that you, the game designer, can be completely absent and still allow it to live.
00:06:17 [Speaker 3]
I am going to make this a somewhat complicated answer, and for that I apologize in advance.
00:06:22 [Speaker 3]
Okay.
00:06:22 [Speaker 2]
In that,
00:06:23 [Speaker 3]
I think design as an activity, at least as it applies to the types of design you see in tabletop role playing games, is a expressive act that is an act of curating someone else's expression.
00:06:39 [Speaker 3]
Mhmm.
00:06:39 [Speaker 3]
You are providing somebody the tools to express themselves, and good breaks off in two directions for me, that can overlap.
00:06:48 [Speaker 3]
There is compelling, intentional.
00:06:53 [Speaker 3]
A design can be poor, like like, not actually well designed, but still be compelling and therefore produce effective expression that people enjoy the process of.
00:07:05 [Speaker 3]
And, I think strong design, is design done with intention, where when you have curated this experience, somebody can go through it and experience it with what you had in mind in place.
00:07:21 [Speaker 3]
And also that the design is expressing something at all, has something to say, and that intention is made clear through your text and product.
00:07:31 [Speaker 3]
And when those overlap, that is when I think this is the strongest area of design, but design can still be good if it is a bad game that produces compelling experiences.
00:07:42 [Speaker 3]
And if it's not a compelling game that still makes a strong point, I can also say, like, well, yeah.
00:07:48 [Speaker 3]
Sure.
00:07:48 [Speaker 3]
There is something effective about that.
00:07:51 [Speaker 3]
And the Venn diagram those overlap.
00:07:53 [Speaker 3]
Those are the games that I adore.
00:07:55 [Speaker 3]
Mhmm.
00:07:56 [Speaker 1]
Yeah.
00:07:57 [Speaker 1]
I mean, it kind of is with any type of design.
00:07:59 [Speaker 1]
You know?
00:07:59 [Speaker 1]
It's like the intention is you can't just throw something together because, like, it looks cool.
00:08:03 [Speaker 1]
You have to figure out where that person is gonna come in at.
00:08:07 [Speaker 3]
Yeah.
00:08:07 [Speaker 3]
You you, like, you have to be if you you're otherwise, you're not using the space.
00:08:11 [Speaker 3]
You can create something that is beautiful, but that is, like, artistic expression generally.
00:08:18 [Speaker 3]
And, like, what's the difference between painting a room and designing through, artistic elements?
00:08:27 [Speaker 3]
It is having the intention of somebody else's experience within it apart from your static expression where you're not concerned about somebody interacting with it.
00:08:37 [Speaker 1]
Yeah.
00:08:37 [Speaker 1]
Exactly.
00:08:39 [Speaker 1]
Yeah.
00:08:39 [Speaker 1]
And one of my things when I've played a bunch to t r p g's, not just d and d even though I've mainly played that one because it's just there.
00:08:47 [Speaker 3]
That's true.
00:08:47 [Speaker 3]
I've heard that song before.
00:08:49 [Speaker 1]
That's that's what it
00:08:50 [Speaker 2]
that's what it is.
00:08:50 [Speaker 2]
It is there.
00:08:52 [Speaker 2]
Mhmm.
00:08:52 [Speaker 2]
It's always there.
00:08:53 [Speaker 1]
And then, you know, I don't have to learn anything new.
00:08:56 [Speaker 2]
And and you never do.
00:08:58 [Speaker 1]
And it's You know what?
00:09:00 [Speaker 1]
Yeah.
00:09:00 [Speaker 1]
But I like learning things, so I played I played many others.
00:09:02 [Speaker 2]
Nice.
00:09:03 [Speaker 1]
But one of the things when I was thinking about, like, does that or, like, if I was to design a game, I would have no idea where to start.
00:09:10 [Speaker 1]
Mhmm.
00:09:10 [Speaker 1]
Because all I know is visuals.
00:09:12 [Speaker 1]
All I'm like, oh, it'd be cool if this game had this visual, but I have no idea about mechanical mechanical elements.
00:09:18 [Speaker 1]
So I kind of want to wanted to ask is, like, when starting a new project, like, do you begin with the mechanics?
00:09:25 [Speaker 1]
The theme, the characters, the play experience?
00:09:27 [Speaker 1]
Like, what are you what's that starting point where you're like, I want this to be a game
00:09:31 [Speaker 3]
Yeah.
00:09:31 [Speaker 1]
To fully flesh out?
00:09:33 [Speaker 2]
Yeah.
00:09:33 [Speaker 2]
Well, there's I mean, there are there are a lot of different approaches to this and different pee comfortable, in in different, order of operations.
00:09:44 [Speaker 2]
I have a a a colleague of and a friend who is a mechanics first.
00:09:49 [Speaker 2]
Like, he comes up with a cool mechanical idea and everything else kinda gets fit around that.
00:09:54 [Speaker 2]
I personally am not that way.
00:09:56 [Speaker 2]
I I always start with either a, a theme or concept or more likely an emotion I'm trying to to, center a game on and then everything spills out on there.
00:10:10 [Speaker 2]
Mechanically, with games, you are trying to do one of a few things.
00:10:16 [Speaker 2]
You're either trying to randomize outcomes.
00:10:18 [Speaker 2]
That's the D and D is, you know, you are rolling dice to randomize what happens when you try to take an action of any kind.
00:10:26 [Speaker 2]
Right?
00:10:27 [Speaker 2]
There are also mechanics that are randomizing facts about the world instead of that, randomizing, pieces of lore or or character appearances or there's on the timeline, things like that.
00:10:43 [Speaker 2]
But my favorite and the one that I play with the most are mechanics that, increase and decrease tension throughout play, and are meant to kind of play with that, things like, timers and, racing mechanics.
00:11:03 [Speaker 2]
And, we talked a lot yesterday about games that use Jenga towers or tumbling block towers if you and, like, the tension that is built and then released in in that.
00:11:16 [Speaker 2]
So there are different mechanics have an emotional purpose sometimes or they have an informational purpose, and depending on that is where I'm gonna play with.
00:11:26 [Speaker 2]
So once I know what kind of emotion I'm centering a game around, I know what kind of mechanics I wanna search for that are gonna help me bring that emotion to people.
00:11:37 [Speaker 2]
And then the rest of the game gets fleshed out from there.
00:11:41 [Speaker 3]
For me, I think, good in tabletop can start from any aspect of the thing.
00:11:48 [Speaker 1]
Mhmm.
00:11:49 [Speaker 3]
Casketland by Marie Enger, I think is a game that is very driven by its graphic design and artistic presentation.
00:11:58 [Speaker 3]
Marie, their primary experience is in comics.
00:12:02 [Speaker 1]
Mhmm.
00:12:02 [Speaker 3]
So they have a lot of compelling art that fills this book, and your interpretation of the art is a big part of how the world is built.
00:12:11 [Speaker 3]
You'll look at an image.
00:12:13 [Speaker 3]
Marie will reference the image by, like, a name text, but what that means is ultimately decided as part of you playing the game.
00:12:21 [Speaker 3]
And I haven't got a chance to speak with Marie about this, and I would love to at some point, but I do believe in a lot of cases, the images preceded, the game mechanics in in this, and the experience of the game is built around those visuals.
00:12:36 [Speaker 3]
Similarly, I've got a colleague, Logan Dean, who works, does a lot of work in product fulfillment and and design of product.
00:12:47 [Speaker 3]
Right now, Logan works with Possible Worlds Games, which is publishing, one of my titles.
00:12:52 [Speaker 3]
And Logan, like, has a lot to say about, like, well, these are the materials that go into the book or or these are the colors that, we want around the packaging and whatnot.
00:13:03 [Speaker 3]
And Logan does that across many disciplines, and, Logan is working on a game right now called Rec League, that is built around graphic design first in its mechanics, and is communicating the vibe of the game through the art, through the layout of the cards, because it is like a mech battling game.
00:13:29 [Speaker 3]
And so the cards and how they're put together, like, look like the overlay you would see if you were piloting a mech and whatnot, look like the dials and knobs.
00:13:37 [Speaker 3]
And because Logan is starting with, I want this to be a competitive mech battling game that feels like it was taken from a TV show in the nineties.
00:13:50 [Speaker 3]
A lot of the design language of the game is being expressed first through graphic design, and Logan is finding mechanics that support that feeling.
00:13:59 [Speaker 3]
So there are many wedges into it, and and this cuts back to, like, what I was saying about design originally.
00:14:04 [Speaker 3]
It's a form of communication.
00:14:06 [Speaker 3]
It's a form of communication that empowers other people to communicate.
00:14:11 [Speaker 3]
So you, being from the graphic design discipline, if you have something that is compelling, I would say the next stage in your design is, like, what feelings is this evoking?
00:14:23 [Speaker 3]
What do I attach to, like, let's I I it is probably, not generous to go, like, oh, yeah.
00:14:30 [Speaker 3]
Graphic design might be of that.
00:14:31 [Speaker 3]
You a ling circle.
00:14:33 [Speaker 3]
You've you've got, like, oh, yeah.
00:14:34 [Speaker 3]
This color palette and this shape are really cool to me.
00:14:38 [Speaker 3]
I it it evokes something to me when I look at it, and, like, if you look at what it evokes and build around that Mhmm.
00:14:44 [Speaker 3]
You're actually starting from a strong statement point.
00:14:47 [Speaker 1]
Yeah.
00:14:48 [Speaker 1]
Yeah.
00:14:48 [Speaker 2]
There are there are whole schools of game games out there that, are art and design Mhmm.
00:14:56 [Speaker 2]
First.
00:14:58 [Speaker 2]
One of them, I would say, that, is, like, there are a ton of oracle games.
00:15:03 [Speaker 2]
Are just, where your your entire experience of it as the player is interpreting, images and determining what's happening based on your interpretation of them.
00:15:16 [Speaker 1]
Had a game like that recently.
00:15:18 [Speaker 1]
Oh, yeah?
00:15:18 [Speaker 1]
What?
00:15:18 [Speaker 1]
The DM was, oh my god.
00:15:20 [Speaker 1]
I can't something manner, but the DM had to give you your prophetic dreams
00:15:24 [Speaker 3]
Fun.
00:15:24 [Speaker 1]
On these cards, and you had to figure out which person you are based on the dreams you were having.
00:15:29 [Speaker 2]
Yeah.
00:15:29 [Speaker 2]
Yeah.
00:15:30 [Speaker 2]
Cool.
00:15:30 [Speaker 2]
See?
00:15:31 [Speaker 2]
That's cool.
00:15:31 [Speaker 3]
Love that.
00:15:32 [Speaker 2]
So there's a lot there's a lot to that.
00:15:33 [Speaker 1]
Yeah.
00:15:34 [Speaker 1]
Yeah.
00:15:34 [Speaker 1]
I want going back to something you said about randomness, which is very interesting to me because in my path as a designer, everything is very intentional.
00:15:43 [Speaker 1]
You don't really prescribe randomness ever, you know, like an audience interaction.
00:15:48 [Speaker 1]
But in game design, you do.
00:15:50 [Speaker 1]
Like, that's part of the experience is, like, the dice, the cards, or whatever instance you're using as the the random generator.
00:15:56 [Speaker 2]
Right.
00:15:57 [Speaker 1]
You know?
00:15:57 [Speaker 1]
So how do you, like, in how do you plan for randomness while also, like, creating an emotional experience?
00:16:05 [Speaker 2]
Yeah.
00:16:05 [Speaker 2]
Sure.
00:16:06 [Speaker 2]
Well, the thing you're giving the players a randomizer.
00:16:10 [Speaker 2]
You, the game designer, are not being are not invoking randomness at all.
00:16:14 [Speaker 2]
You're curating what randomness can do.
00:16:18 [Speaker 2]
Like, so okay.
00:16:21 [Speaker 2]
Like, a sort of, like, really loose game like D and D, the randomness is kind of, like, whatever.
00:16:29 [Speaker 2]
Mhmm.
00:16:30 [Speaker 2]
It's all up to the interpretation of the dungeon master a lot of times.
00:16:34 [Speaker 2]
You know, things can have wide, range of of, like, interpretation, especially when it comes to, like, skill checking, not necessarily damage, dealing.
00:16:46 [Speaker 2]
But, like, with more focused game design that I would say, you as the game designer are creating parameters within which the randomness will happen for the people at the table.
00:16:59 [Speaker 2]
So, like, my outcomes, to this fight scene are not going to be, anything from a player character dies to the player character, defeats this person.
00:17:16 [Speaker 2]
I'm instead going to make it like these really specific series of things, somewhere within that spectrum, and I'm gonna use a randomizer to help them decide and help them randomize what that outcome is.
00:17:30 [Speaker 2]
So instead of this full range, maybe I have shrunk it down to, you know, something more specific where, they succeed, but they lose something in the process, and here is the randomization of what that happens.
00:17:48 [Speaker 2]
So, like, you then, as the game designer, are setting the parameters.
00:17:52 [Speaker 2]
The randomness is happening at the table away from you.
00:17:58 [Speaker 2]
Mhmm.
00:17:58 [Speaker 3]
And I'll say randomness is one aspect of how games are providing support or surprise to the people who are experiencing them.
00:18:09 [Speaker 3]
It's like you're somebody who's played a lot of, role playing games.
00:18:13 [Speaker 3]
I think if I said, oh, make up a story to me right now, that would be a terrifying, burdensome request on my part, and it becomes easy and fun when the game is supporting you, And one of the ways it can do that is through the surprise of saying, hey.
00:18:30 [Speaker 3]
Some decisions, some moments in this game, are unpredictable, or you only have a measure of control of strategic decision making that you apply, but, like, you don't ultimately decide whether your attack, connects to the opponent or or whether you are killed in the process of doing what you're doing, that is the sort of thing that, like, provides the interest, the intrigue of mystery and surprise to people, and also, provides, the idea that, like, it removes some of the burden of I'm responsible for everything that happens.
00:19:06 [Speaker 3]
And that as a designer, you are you you know, gathering that on your paintbrush and deciding what elements of the am I removing some sort of burden or, taking agency, that might move people away from the experience out of people's hands and putting it onto the system, that is making the statement.
00:19:31 [Speaker 1]
Yeah.
00:19:32 [Speaker 1]
That I had a kind of a question going off of that, like, with narrative.
00:19:37 [Speaker 1]
I feel like when I'm trying to get new people into get into games Okay.
00:19:44 [Speaker 3]
I didn't realize that we had a goal here.
00:19:47 [Speaker 1]
Okay.
00:19:48 [Speaker 1]
Alright.
00:19:49 [Speaker 1]
I think a lot of the times, the kind of idea of how big the narrative is is a little bit scary.
00:19:55 [Speaker 1]
Not just to, like, one single person, but overall, like Mhmm.
00:19:58 [Speaker 1]
If I'm like, you should play this game with me.
00:20:00 [Speaker 1]
It has dragons and lore, and it's insane.
00:20:02 [Speaker 1]
And you have to learn all of it, and you have to play like you're in the world, like you've been in the world forever.
00:20:06 [Speaker 1]
That's horrifying.
00:20:07 [Speaker 1]
Yes.
00:20:07 [Speaker 2]
Yeah.
00:20:08 [Speaker 2]
Sure.
00:20:08 [Speaker 2]
I truthfully, I don't play a lot of games like that anymore.
00:20:13 [Speaker 2]
A majority of the games that I play are extremely zoomed in
00:20:17 [Speaker 3]
Mhmm.
00:20:18 [Speaker 2]
On a very specific slice of story.
00:20:23 [Speaker 2]
Could be, like, I there's there's a favorite game of mine that I've played, like, three times, and three times have been, like, one of the most intense and easy gameplay experiences.
00:20:36 [Speaker 2]
Easy to get engaged with difficult emotionally, is a game called The Time We Have, which is for two players.
00:20:45 [Speaker 2]
You it's so specific.
00:20:46 [Speaker 2]
You are playing two brothers in the zombie apocalypse.
00:20:51 [Speaker 2]
One of you has become infected and the other is not, and you play the game you have to play the game on opposite sides of a closed door, and the game takes place over the last few days the infected brother turns.
00:21:04 [Speaker 2]
The game is the setup to this game is so specific.
00:21:09 [Speaker 2]
You know exactly where you are, like, entering the story.
00:21:13 [Speaker 2]
You know exactly where you're going to be leaving the story.
00:21:17 [Speaker 2]
So it's actually easy to really, like, play within that space with minimal prep or or setup or or anything like that.
00:21:26 [Speaker 2]
You can just jump in because of how because of how narrow and specific it is.
00:21:32 [Speaker 2]
And then because of that, I feel like you're freer to have a really, like, intense emotional experience playing because you don't have to be thinking so hard about, like, what you're trying to do and what kind of story you're trying to tell.
00:21:49 [Speaker 1]
Yeah.
00:21:49 [Speaker 1]
I just I think a lot of what I have seen, there's a lot of games that wanna be like, look at this cool world that I have.
00:21:55 [Speaker 1]
Sure.
00:21:55 [Speaker 2]
Oh, totally.
00:21:56 [Speaker 2]
It's so much lore.
00:21:57 [Speaker 2]
It's a lot.
00:21:57 [Speaker 2]
Yeah.
00:21:57 [Speaker 1]
And you can learn all about it.
00:21:59 [Speaker 1]
And I'm I'm like, I have I'm too busy for that.
00:22:02 [Speaker 3]
Well, that is a part of the design because there is a huge section of, the market for these games that are like, oh, actually, I love a lot of lore.
00:22:13 [Speaker 3]
I devour lore.
00:22:15 [Speaker 3]
Like, it is not, specifically role playing, but, does have role playing as part of its overall offerings.
00:22:24 [Speaker 3]
Warhammer 40 k
00:22:25 [Speaker 2]
Mhmm.
00:22:26 [Speaker 3]
Is a dense, mine of lore, that that is endless in many ways because it has the novels and it has all Yeah.
00:22:35 [Speaker 3]
Manuals and whatnot.
00:22:37 [Speaker 3]
And there are some people who that's actually their entry into the space.
00:22:42 [Speaker 3]
Mhmm.
00:22:43 [Speaker 3]
Because to them, that is a form of play to learn things.
00:22:48 [Speaker 3]
I I remember, Yeah.
00:22:49 [Speaker 3]
I started playing role playing games with Dungeons and Dragons 3.5 towards the end of its run.
00:22:56 [Speaker 3]
We were maybe four, five years out from the premiere of fourth edition, and, we were a very I was did college, and it was a very power gamey, hungry space.
00:23:11 [Speaker 3]
And the release schedule for three five was so much more robust than it is for fifth edition.
00:23:17 [Speaker 3]
So when you were making a character, you were pouring through dozens of different manuals, grabbing little bits and pieces for your character to assemble assemble a deadly weapon to bring to the table, and part of the experience did feel like I am a wizard, you know, tearing through volumes looking for forbore that will unlock ultimate power, and that kind of play surrounding the experience that is before you even set foot on the table, like that is, a a kind of thing that appeals to people specifically.
00:23:52 [Speaker 3]
So, like, yeah, there are these games that have, like, I am presenting a dense thing for you to learn, and that is actually its invitation to play.
00:24:01 [Speaker 3]
And for somebody of your sensibilities, like, the game, like, this is a blank canvas.
00:24:05 [Speaker 3]
Mhmm.
00:24:05 [Speaker 3]
You build this or this is a a very close and clipped, like Dylan was described, have, a very focused scene, and you're going to start there.
00:24:14 [Speaker 3]
Mhmm.
00:24:15 [Speaker 3]
Those are all different design statements Yeah.
00:24:18 [Speaker 3]
In their way.
00:24:19 [Speaker 2]
It's very funny.
00:24:20 [Speaker 2]
Warhammer 40 k and Fantasy are interesting because they do have all of this Mhmm.
00:24:24 [Speaker 2]
All of this intense lore.
00:24:28 [Speaker 2]
And I think putting them on one end of the spectrum is correct because they have all of this lore.
00:24:34 [Speaker 2]
Absolutely none of it is necessary for you to actually play the game.
00:24:38 [Speaker 2]
The game has no invokes none of Mhmm.
00:24:42 [Speaker 2]
Lore into it because it's not a role playing game, because it's a skirmish game.
00:24:47 [Speaker 2]
You can you can care about that and play the game, but you genuinely don't have to.
00:24:53 [Speaker 2]
And then as you get into things like like Vampire the Masquerade, where if you are gonna play the game rules as written, you do need to know, like, a ton of historical lore.
00:25:07 [Speaker 3]
Or you can ignore it all.
00:25:08 [Speaker 1]
Or you
00:25:08 [Speaker 2]
can ignore it all, which most people do, but, like, that's why I say play it, traditionally.
00:25:15 [Speaker 2]
You need to know, all the politics of all these houses and the history and who won which wars and who used to be the king of x, y, z and who is now.
00:25:27 [Speaker 2]
And, yeah, it's it's it can be very intense, and then and but some people some people love that.
00:25:34 [Speaker 3]
Yeah.
00:25:34 [Speaker 3]
Yeah.
00:25:35 [Speaker 3]
If you like the pared down offering and you are looking for your first role playing experience, I will point out that tonight, we are going to feature A Land Wants Magic and Oh, Captain, My Captain.
00:25:47 [Speaker 3]
Mhmm.
00:25:48 [Speaker 3]
Two games that, play in a short period of time, and you don't need to know anything to sit down.
00:25:54 [Speaker 3]
They each themselves as you play.
00:25:57 [Speaker 3]
Yeah.
00:25:57 [Speaker 3]
What was the building that we were in for that?
00:26:00 [Speaker 3]
We just Pebble Hill.
00:26:01 [Speaker 3]
Pebble Hill.
00:26:01 [Speaker 3]
Yep.
00:26:02 [Speaker 1]
That's the one.
00:26:03 [Speaker 3]
So, if if you're curious, if you want to sync to our level, it's it's an option.
00:26:12 [Speaker 1]
Yeah.
00:26:13 [Speaker 1]
I I love me a good short game.
00:26:15 [Speaker 1]
Yeah.
00:26:15 [Speaker 1]
Yeah.
00:26:16 [Speaker 1]
Yeah.
00:26:16 [Speaker 1]
I love it.
00:26:17 [Speaker 1]
But a question about mechanics.
00:26:20 [Speaker 1]
This is kind of a silly question.
00:26:21 [Speaker 2]
Not not really.
00:26:22 [Speaker 2]
Not probably not.
00:26:23 [Speaker 2]
No.
00:26:24 [Speaker 2]
I don't think so.
00:26:25 [Speaker 1]
What is your mechanic and your least favorite mechanic?
00:26:29 [Speaker 2]
Oh, I have one.
00:26:30 [Speaker 2]
I have one.
00:26:31 [Speaker 2]
Okay.
00:26:31 [Speaker 2]
This is the most beautiful mechanic on Earth.
00:26:36 [Speaker 2]
It's, from a game that I
00:26:38 [Speaker 3]
will fight you, but go on.
00:26:39 [Speaker 2]
It's from a game that I have played exactly once because it was so emotionally intense that I don't know.
00:26:47 [Speaker 2]
I probably will play it.
00:26:48 [Speaker 2]
I just I need more time.
00:26:50 [Speaker 2]
It's such an intense, mechanic, and it's it's one where the mechanic is not only beautifully designed and beautifully and works beaut it's also perfectly matched to what it's trying to do.
00:27:05 [Speaker 2]
So, the game is called The Fire Flickers Between You.
00:27:09 [Speaker 2]
It's a two another two player game.
00:27:11 [Speaker 2]
I'm big on those.
00:27:12 [Speaker 2]
I like these kind of curated experiences.
00:27:15 [Speaker 2]
You are playing, a sentient mech suit and the pilot who, rides in that mech suit.
00:27:22 [Speaker 2]
And the setup to the game is that, essentially, you're on a suicide mission.
00:27:26 [Speaker 2]
You have decided to, diversion away from the rest of your squad so that they could get away.
00:27:33 [Speaker 2]
And right now, the two of you are sat around a fire waiting for the enemy to arrive and basically take you out.
00:27:41 [Speaker 2]
You're trying to have your last conversation, but the two characters have different objectives and different parameters.
00:27:48 [Speaker 2]
The pilot wants to connect with Mhmm.
00:27:52 [Speaker 2]
The only person they have access to at the at what they know is gonna be the end of their life.
00:27:57 [Speaker 2]
And the mech suit does not understand Morteau and can and cannot really properly engage with that.
00:28:05 [Speaker 2]
The mechanic that is happening between you is that you have birthday candles lit, and stuck to some sort of surface.
00:28:15 [Speaker 2]
The mechanic that's happening is each time one of you gets closer to your objective, and, actually, like, when the pilot is able to connect with the, mech, you move the candles closer together, which makes them burn faster and rushes you closer to the end of both of your lives.
00:28:37 [Speaker 2]
When the mech suit pulls back and puts distance between you, the candles get further away, and you get more time.
00:28:46 [Speaker 2]
But you are both pull pushing and pulling against each other because you both want different things out of this conversation.
00:28:53 [Speaker 2]
And no matter what, though, the birthday candles will eventually all burn out.
00:28:57 [Speaker 2]
It's just how much time do you actually get to have this conversation and to explore these last, you know, few each other.
00:29:05 [Speaker 2]
And then when the final candle goes out, it is presumed that you have died.
00:29:10 [Speaker 2]
But this mechanic of moving the candles, lighting them birthday candles, by the way, burn faster than you think they do.
00:29:18 [Speaker 2]
They're they go so fast even on your own.
00:29:21 [Speaker 2]
And then when you move them closer together, they are just disappearing in front of your eyes.
00:29:26 [Speaker 2]
It's it it it puts this pressure and and and tension and fear into your heart, like, when you're doing it.
00:29:35 [Speaker 2]
And it is just so well executed.
00:29:37 [Speaker 2]
It works in exactly the way the designer wanted it to, and, and it gives you that that emotion, that they were hoping for.
00:29:49 [Speaker 2]
And so, yeah, I just think it's beautiful.
00:29:53 [Speaker 3]
My mechanic, which I also think is the most beautiful mechanic, in the world, is also from a two player game, comes from Star Cross.
00:30:01 [Speaker 2]
Oh, of course.
00:30:01 [Speaker 2]
Of course.
00:30:02 [Speaker 2]
Yeah.
00:30:02 [Speaker 2]
Of course.
00:30:03 [Speaker 2]
You were right.
00:30:03 [Speaker 3]
A two player game of forbidden romance where you play two characters really are into each other, but have a really good reason keeping them apart.
00:30:11 [Speaker 3]
Rather than using dice or anything as a randomizer, there is a Jenga tower in the middle of the table between, both of you, and anytime you do something that increases intimacy between these characters, you move a brick in the tower.
00:30:24 [Speaker 3]
There's this looming danger in the game that if you act on these feelings, it could destroy your life.
00:30:31 [Speaker 3]
That is how big the reason keeping you apart is, but of course you are drawn to each other.
00:30:36 [Speaker 3]
You need to do things that increase between you.
00:30:40 [Speaker 3]
It builds up and builds up, so you have that when you're doing something definitively, that is increasing intimacy, revealing something about yourselves, or, touching each other in some way.
00:30:52 [Speaker 3]
However, there is also a rule in the game that anytime there is dialogue between characters, whether it is revealing something or not, the players must touch the tower.
00:31:05 [Speaker 3]
Mhmm.
00:31:06 [Speaker 3]
And the tower becomes this looming frightening object because as you play, it's getting really unstable, and the game is driving your emotions, your anxiety, your nervousness, and so your hands are shaking, especially as the tower is later in the game very very unstable, but to say anything at all, you are forced to touch it, and it is representative of the If you've ever had a crush on someone, it feels dangerous to talk to them.
00:31:39 [Speaker 3]
You could say the wrong thing, you could be nervous in a way that destroys this precious thing that exists between you that you've invested so much time and hope to.
00:31:53 [Speaker 3]
It beautifully reflects the experience and creates in the player an emotional experience that is reflective of how we often feel about love and attraction.
00:32:07 [Speaker 3]
So it beautifully makes the game a meaningful experience through mechanic, and it is so, enmeshed in how the game functions and what the game is trying to say.
00:32:21 [Speaker 3]
Mhmm.
00:32:22 [Speaker 3]
I see the intention, I see how it makes the experience compelling, and I see how it shapes what players do expressively through the game.
00:32:33 [Speaker 3]
Because if I'm going to say something especially very late in the game where I am nervous that I am going to knock over the tower and force my character to act on their feelings, which if they do at the wrong time it will destroy their life.
00:32:48 [Speaker 1]
Mhmm.
00:32:48 [Speaker 3]
But I need to say this thing, so I reach out and what I'm able to say is going to be of how much I feel I can really stay in contact with this tower, so it forces me to be poetic.
00:33:02 [Speaker 3]
It forces me to be intentional, kind of the way you think strategically about, I like this person so much.
00:33:09 [Speaker 3]
I can't screw up.
00:33:11 [Speaker 3]
I write five texts and delete them all before I hit send.
00:33:15 [Speaker 3]
Like, it's gorgeous.
00:33:18 [Speaker 1]
Those those sound really cool, genuinely.
00:33:21 [Speaker 1]
Yeah.
00:33:22 [Speaker 1]
Any this is a hot take.
00:33:23 [Speaker 1]
Or do you have any hot takes or bad mechanics, perhaps?
00:33:26 [Speaker 2]
Genuinely, I know this is, like, so, like, stereotypical of me.
00:33:32 [Speaker 2]
But I think, like, I think anything that is role to find out or role to figure this out, the the standard kind of, like, skill check based mechanics, they're so common.
00:33:47 [Speaker 2]
They're so fine.
00:33:48 [Speaker 2]
They're so fine to the point where it's like, I don't know, it's what it's whatever.
00:33:55 [Speaker 2]
They, at this point, are the of most of the experiences of people being like, well, I'm gonna interpret that my own way, or I'm gonna ignore that rule, or I'm gonna home brew that, which is all fine.
00:34:09 [Speaker 2]
It's just, like, if if everybody is home brewing it, if everybody is interpreting it in their own way, if everybody's making it whatever they want it to be, then it wasn't that useful, I don't think, like, in a design way.
00:34:25 [Speaker 2]
You know, I I just I, yeah, I think it's an interesting thing, and it's so it's so common.
00:34:31 [Speaker 2]
It makes up such a big amount of many games, and I'm just sort of like, alright.
00:34:38 [Speaker 2]
Mhmm.
00:34:39 [Speaker 3]
It's in a lot of games through inertia.
00:34:41 [Speaker 2]
Yeah.
00:34:41 [Speaker 1]
Mhmm.
00:34:41 [Speaker 3]
And I think this I I that really works very well with what I think.
00:34:47 [Speaker 3]
I wouldn't say that there are mechanics specifically that I would say are this is bad.
00:34:53 [Speaker 3]
Mhmm.
00:34:54 [Speaker 3]
I would say there are a lot of mechanics that I think are poorly applied
00:34:58 [Speaker 1]
Mhmm.
00:34:58 [Speaker 3]
Are not appropriate to their situation, creates a bad experience.
00:35:04 [Speaker 3]
And that's a thing with game design sometimes in designing things.
00:35:09 [Speaker 3]
You can tell that a designer is working to reinforce a system without thinking of the full scope of what a system does.
00:35:20 [Speaker 3]
A mechanic that, appears in D and D, and, there are people who disagree with me that this is a mechanic at all, but I think they don't have enough experience in game design.
00:35:30 [Speaker 3]
The spell wish Mhmm.
00:35:31 [Speaker 3]
In D and D has this tradition and is explicitly written in some cases of, like, the GM is always going to make this painful for you.
00:35:41 [Speaker 3]
It's like you will wish and never get quite what you intend.
00:35:44 [Speaker 3]
They will be a capricious jinn in this, and they will twist your words to harm you.
00:35:50 [Speaker 3]
Yeah.
00:35:51 [Speaker 3]
And that is a mechanic that is built around, like, it's maybe very generous to say, trying to create a compelling moment, because we know ironic twists and stories can be fun and compelling.
00:36:05 [Speaker 3]
However, it is also kind of built around the idea of players should never get too much power.
00:36:13 [Speaker 3]
And part of your role as a GM, especially in second and third edition, is to reduce the amount of power that your players have access to to never really let them taste something, and if they get grow too tall as grass, you're supposed to cut them down.
00:36:30 [Speaker 3]
It is effectively instructing you to be a jerk to your friends.
00:36:35 [Speaker 3]
I that is a poorly applied mechanic.
00:36:38 [Speaker 3]
The idea of providing an ironic twist or finding a way to turn what should be a solution into a a different and novel complex problem for people to deal with, that can be good.
00:36:51 [Speaker 2]
Yeah.
00:36:51 [Speaker 2]
Absolutely.
00:36:52 [Speaker 2]
I think I think the problem with with Wish being written that way is because Wish is a extremely high level artifact.
00:37:00 [Speaker 2]
Yeah.
00:37:01 [Speaker 2]
It's it's something that all other spells on that level are incredibly powerful and and and borderline overpowered.
00:37:11 [Speaker 2]
It should be it it's something that you have to do extreme amounts of work to get access to and costs a re that's incredibly rare even at high levels.
00:37:20 [Speaker 2]
You're gonna have at most, I think, two spell slots at that level, like, even if you are maxed out.
00:37:29 [Speaker 2]
So you're spending a lot.
00:37:31 [Speaker 2]
You've worked hard to get it.
00:37:33 [Speaker 2]
It should just be the it should just be the gotcha that it's
00:37:38 [Speaker 3]
supposed to be.
00:37:39 [Speaker 3]
Is being instructed, don't make it that.
00:37:42 [Speaker 3]
Do not reward all of the things that went into this.
00:37:45 [Speaker 3]
Make it feel valueless to the point where there are a lot of experienced players who not engage with it, which is why did you put something in your game that makes people not want to interact with it?
00:37:56 [Speaker 2]
Right.
00:37:56 [Speaker 3]
That's that's poor that's poor application of ideas that could otherwise be fruitful.
00:38:02 [Speaker 3]
Mhmm.
00:38:02 [Speaker 1]
Yeah.
00:38:03 [Speaker 1]
Yeah.
00:38:03 [Speaker 1]
I've only used Wish once.
00:38:05 [Speaker 3]
How did it go?
00:38:06 [Speaker 1]
I asked to be the most famous person in the world, And
00:38:09 [Speaker 3]
How did it go?
00:38:11 [Speaker 1]
I couldn't get I couldn't be left alone.
00:38:14 [Speaker 2]
That was the monkey's paw.
00:38:15 [Speaker 2]
Yeah.
00:38:16 [Speaker 1]
Yeah.
00:38:16 [Speaker 1]
Was that my my bard was never left alone ever.
00:38:20 [Speaker 3]
They're gonna they're gonna
00:38:21 [Speaker 1]
Which did make sense.
00:38:22 [Speaker 3]
Thanks.
00:38:22 [Speaker 1]
Yeah.
00:38:23 [Speaker 1]
I mean, that was the most famous person in the world.
00:38:25 [Speaker 2]
No.
00:38:25 [Speaker 2]
That that one, all all things considered, is not the worst.
00:38:31 [Speaker 1]
I did I did know that going into it because I was a bard.
00:38:35 [Speaker 3]
Well, I mean, here here's a a question that I have for you.
00:38:37 [Speaker 3]
As as a player, because you are also engaging with this mechanic intentionally, were you using that to look for trouble?
00:38:46 [Speaker 3]
Were you like, yeah.
00:38:47 [Speaker 1]
Oh, absolutely.
00:38:48 [Speaker 1]
Yeah.
00:38:48 [Speaker 1]
I knew that wishing to be the most famous person in the world was going to cause someone to be paying attention to my character.
00:38:54 [Speaker 3]
Yeah.
00:38:54 [Speaker 3]
There there is something to be said.
00:38:55 [Speaker 3]
And and what level were you at this point too?
00:38:57 [Speaker 3]
Is and it because, like, I'm imagining this isn't your twentieth level bard or eighteenth level bard casting a ninth level spell.
00:39:04 [Speaker 1]
I don't remember.
00:39:05 [Speaker 3]
Yeah.
00:39:05 [Speaker 3]
It's, like, the idea that there is something out there, like, as a player, this is trouble, and it's a button that I wanna press to get trouble, that is well applied design.
00:39:14 [Speaker 3]
And I would say that is on your game master designing a good experience, using the resources that they have provided by the books, or then the designers of D and D, doing and this is, like, compelling design of the fact that there is a powerful thing that only ever causes trouble to people can be a a a useful thing, but then you are leaning on the people who are experiencing your game to, make it work
00:39:44 [Speaker 1]
make it good.
00:39:45 [Speaker 3]
Instead of the broken thing that you've just included in the design.
00:39:48 [Speaker 1]
Because I knew going into it that there was not going to be a 100% good outcome.
00:39:52 [Speaker 3]
Mhmm.
00:39:52 [Speaker 3]
Yeah.
00:39:52 [Speaker 1]
So I was like, well, this could be funny.
00:39:54 [Speaker 2]
Yeah.
00:39:54 [Speaker 2]
Yeah.
00:39:55 [Speaker 2]
Sure.
00:39:55 [Speaker 2]
Great.
00:39:56 [Speaker 3]
That's great.
00:39:56 [Speaker 3]
You both you and your, game master did effective design work in creating that moment.
00:40:03 [Speaker 2]
Correct.
00:40:03 [Speaker 2]
And I that's why I feel like these things aren't really great game design because it varies so much to the experience of the individual tables playing and their ability to interpret them in a way that is fun for that table versus a game where if I sit down with three different people to to play this game three different times, I'm going to experience that the game designer intended all three times with three different people.
00:40:33 [Speaker 2]
And that is something that makes a game good to me versus a game that me and my friends make good because we're awesome.
00:40:42 [Speaker 3]
Sure.
00:40:43 [Speaker 2]
You know, like, that's that's the difference.
00:40:45 [Speaker 3]
And that's why I have the compelling versus intentional, like, and their overlap.
00:40:50 [Speaker 1]
Mhmm.
00:40:51 [Speaker 1]
Yeah.
00:40:51 [Speaker 1]
So with our last, like, about five minutes Mhmm.
00:40:54 [Speaker 3]
I
00:40:54 [Speaker 1]
was gonna ask, what advice would you give to trying to get into tabletop game design or even publishing?
00:41:03 [Speaker 2]
Yeah.
00:41:04 [Speaker 2]
Mine first is, go on itch.io and join a game jam Mhmm.
00:41:10 [Speaker 2]
Or seek out one at your sometimes libraries do them.
00:41:14 [Speaker 2]
Local game stores do them.
00:41:16 [Speaker 2]
Do a game jam.
00:41:18 [Speaker 2]
Find something that feels compelling.
00:41:21 [Speaker 2]
Start with something small scale.
00:41:23 [Speaker 2]
Those communities can be ones where people will talk very openly about the process of game design, will share ideas really openly.
00:41:34 [Speaker 2]
It is one of the least gatekeepy environments in publishing and game design that I found.
00:41:43 [Speaker 2]
And I'm I feel very lucky that I found, you know, early on into my journey into this, try a game jam.
00:41:51 [Speaker 2]
You will you will meet people who are knowledgeable and fun and have, like, a a lot of things to share, and then you will you will find something you like.
00:41:59 [Speaker 3]
I I like that, and and I think my similar in, do a project that you can finish, and think about how you learned other things.
00:42:10 [Speaker 3]
Most of us don't learn to write by writing a novel.
00:42:13 [Speaker 3]
We learn how to spell words and then compose sentences and paragraphs and essays and so on and so forth.
00:42:20 [Speaker 3]
If you dream of creating, you know, a 300 page tome of of game text like Dungeons and Dragons, that is great.
00:42:31 [Speaker 3]
I would advise you to start with a one page micro RPG because if you do it and succeed or fail, you're going to learn from that experience.
00:42:41 [Speaker 3]
It will develop you into the design you want to be when you commit yourself to that dream project.
00:42:48 [Speaker 3]
I I you will learn useful things no matter what, but I think it is more effective to complete a project, look back, and and learn from it, because one of the most important things most important skills you can cultivate as a creative person is the ability to finish things.
00:43:05 [Speaker 3]
Mhmm.
00:43:06 [Speaker 3]
If you cannot finish things, you will almost never satisfy yourself as a creative.
00:43:13 [Speaker 3]
So do things that satisfy yourself because it's really hard to be a creative person.
00:43:19 [Speaker 3]
Don't make it more challenging.
00:43:20 [Speaker 3]
Don't pick hard mode, from jump because your voice is actually more important, than that, and be be kind to yourself in that way.
00:43:33 [Speaker 3]
Hey.
00:43:34 [Speaker 1]
Thanks for listening to Good Times Pinks.
00:43:36 [Speaker 1]
Hope you had a good time because I sure did.
00:43:38 [Speaker 1]
But, unfortunately, the episode is over.
00:43:41 [Speaker 1]
But don't worry, you can check us out in other places.
00:43:43 [Speaker 1]
Be sure to follow the show to listen to every new episode or listen once.
00:43:47 [Speaker 1]
Check us out on Instagram at Type Speaks pod.
00:43:49 [Speaker 1]
And remember, always keep creating and always stay curious.
00:43:53 [Speaker 1]
I'll see you next time.
00:43:54 [Speaker 1]
I've been Ray.