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The Viktor Wilt Show daily recap! If you miss the show weekdays from 6A-10A MST, you've come to the right place.
The Artist Interrogations podcast. Hello. Hey, Devin. How's it going, man? Good.
How are you doing, brother? Doing pretty good, other than you know, it's the day after 4th here, and we're, like, heavily involved with the 4th July celebrations. So I did about a 12 hour day running the stage, schlepping gear, and so I feel like I get hit by a train. But, I wouldn't pass up the opportunity to chat with you. Yeah.
Thanks, brother. There's certain trains that are okay to be hit with, and so I would suggest that's one of them, and congrats. Yeah. You know what I mean? Anytime work in music is fun.
So yeah. And right now, you're out on tour with Dream Theater, Animals as Leaders. Looks like you guys have been having a lot of fun, seeing a lot of videos pop up with everybody jumping on stage together. How's tour going? It's been fantastic.
And more than anything else, it's just it's I spent so much of my career with with, people who are sort of contemporaries of mine, whether or not it's other bands or other musicians. Always, in a sense, I've always felt sort of, like, on the on the outside, like, people maybe didn't understand what I was doing or or maybe interpreted some of the things that I do flippantly as being a fundamental part of the work. And so to have Dream Theater, solidly endorse me and my work is just I'm so grateful for it in a way because, when I talk to them and and I see in their eyes, they actually really do understand what it is that we're doing. It's not like an ironic understanding of it, which tends to be the case. People like, oh, yeah.
That that guy who does a weird shit in the corner there. Right? So the fact that I always view touring like you're you're in high school you're in high school again in a lot of ways. And Dream Theater is like that band where the guitar player knew how to play all the Van Halen licks, and they had a nice PA. You know?
So the fact that they let us play with their PA and everything is pretty cool, man. Right on, man. Yeah. You know, I've tried to get a lot of my friends into the the real wild progressive stuff over the years, and, it it can be challenging for people. Kinda like, you know, Avenge Sevenfold just put out this new album that I I don't know if you've checked any of that out.
I have. Yeah. Yeah. I have. But, I mean, I guess it it's it's such a wide reaching, term like progressive because I I don't think up to this point, there certainly hasn't been a huge amount of crossover between Dream Theater fans and and what I do because it's pretty different musically.
But I think that the intent is similar. Just being able to write and perform whatever you had whatever the heck you want is the goal. And, I think if maybe if you're trying to introduce progressive music to people who have not participated in it participated in it prior, maybe that's a better way to approach it to say it's less about complicated music and more about the freedom to do whatever it is that you wanna do. Right? Yeah.
Totally. And I don't know. Something about when that type of stuff finally clicked for me. I remember when I was a teenager listening to it was, the construction of light album by King Crimson, and I'd never really heard anything like that. And I still haven't.
Oh. I I still I've never heard it. Like, I mean, typically and this is what I will say just going back to the last thing. It's like, I don't like what is typically known as well, it's not like I don't like it, but I was never into it. Right?
Like, I was much more into the metal stuff or the industrial stuff or the sort of ambient stuff. And Dream Theater as well is a band. I didn't I've not heard any of their records really other than the first one, I guess. And and, so when people talk about Progressive often, they think of, you know, King Crimson or Yes or Genesis or what have you. But, honestly, dude, I've not heard any of that stuff.
I mean, I've heard enough of it to know what it is, but I never spent any time with it. So yeah. Yeah. I'd recommend, you know, those later King Crimson albums. They're they're pretty wild.
I I would think you'd probably dig them. I you know, their older stuff kinda had that more classic rock progressive sound, and they they got pretty wild with with those, last 2 they put out. Pretty fun stuff. I was always into Motorhead. You know what I mean?
And so it's like but because, I guess, because the way I think, maybe I I think in ways that are more complicated, but it the genesis of it was always, real knuckle dragon sort of stuff more so than than the sort of higher functioning music, I guess. And, maybe in a sense, that's what I feel I bring to the table in this scene is although it's progressive with its intent, it's it's a lot of knuckle dragging in what I do. Well, I I know the first time I heard city by strapping young lad. I mean, that was one of the heaviest things I'd ever heard in my life. You know, it's just so thick and crushing and, but at the same time, pretty pretty complex.
So I never thought of it as knuckle dragon music even though, I mean, it it ripped your face off. Well, I mean, I think the thing that I I sometimes struggle with is is and it seems to be changing now, but there's really typically a a need for audience to to have things compartmentalize. You know, like, progressive is sounds like this. It sounds like Genesis or whatever, and metal sounds like, I don't know, Iron Maiden or or what have you. But I just for me, like, the the work that I've done over the course of 32 records or whatever it is now, we go between death metal or pop music or orchestral or ambient or country or or or any number of of different type of, styles.
And for a long time, I think that's what's confused people who maybe weren't familiar with what I do is they go to listen to something and then everything's a little different. But that's to me, I think that's life in a way. Like, I don't anybody who I choose to spend, time with has has got a pretty dynamic frame of mind when it comes to just what they have to deal with in a day. Like, you know, you've got kids or family or work or dogs or construction or whatever it is that you're doing. Each one of those things is such a specific frame of mind.
And as a musician, I I've always subscribed to the idea that each one of those frames of mind deserve a soundtrack. And I think because of the propensity for, the audience and the scene in general to need to categorize people, it's like, well, unless you're doing one thing to the exclusion of all else, then, typically, it gets interpreted as, like, some sort of dysfunction. Like, wait a minute. You're doing that type of music and that type of music? Well, that's, clearly, you've got some sort of, mental illness rather than it's just, yeah, man.
Sometimes I just don't wanna listen to metal at all, and sometimes I don't wanna listen to quiet things at all either. And my hope is that eventually, that will become much more of a common thing. Like, it won't be viewed as being some sort of, anomaly. And if any genre would be able to house that kind of dynamicism, I think progressive would probably be it. And that's what I really like about when you've got new stuff coming out.
I don't know what to expect. You know, you're walking in. If even if you look at the last few albums, light work, very different from the puzzle, very different from Empath. I mean, there's it it's always a surprise. Life life changes.
Right? Like, pandemic. I mean, it's, you know, when you have kids or if your grandparents pass away or if, you know, somebody you know gets an illness or you get an illness or, you know, like, any number of things can happen, and and it's the stimulus that that you receive which is going to determine the output. And so I don't know what's gonna happen either, like, ever. Like, I people say, oh, what's what's up next for you?
And and although I've got some overarching ideas of what it will be thematically, in terms of what it's going to be, in terms of its musical components, you know, I mean, I don't know. And and I won't know until I'm upon it because it just requires you to to live your life and then interpret the information that comes from that process. Right? So it's it's funny. There's there's there's sometimes, there's there's this sense when I talk to people that they think that, you know, I do these things to be provocative.
Like, you know, your last record was really heavy, and now you're doing something really new agey. Like, you know, why would you do that to your audience? And I think to myself, well, I certainly am not trying to, confuse anybody. But on a practical level, as a human being, if I've spent a year making something really complicated, whether it's deconstruction or empath or the puzzle or whatever, the next thing I do is almost invariably going to be the opposite of that just because of fatigue. You focus so heavily on complex things, and when you've finished it, I think, man, I don't wanna do that again.
Like, I wanna do something else. And so it's a it's a pretty it's a pretty practical process. I don't think it's as, convoluted as it may come across. And when you sit down to write, do you generally just pick up the guitar, start with riffs? Is there any kind of specific, flow that you usually jump to when it comes to the songwriting?
The only the only constant with the songwriting process is, path of least resistance. And by that, I mean, whatever I feel compelled to do, I I follow. So, you know, I was building this ambient rig for touring that yielded a whole bunch of this music for sleep that I started doing. And the reason why I chose to do that is because it's the only thing that interested me. When I sat to write, pick up a guitar, and I and if I go to play a metal riff when I'm not in a metal frame of mind, it just feels really, like, absurd.
It makes no sense. And during those moments, I'm often thinking that you know what I really would rather be doing is, like, working on that ambient stuff. Or or conversely, you know, I've got this symphony that we're working on for for 2025, and and I'll sit down to write the ambient stuff. And I'm like, you know what? Today, I feel like that orchestral ideas on my mind.
That melody is on my mind there. That and so if I focus only on the components of the work that seem compelling, then then that's how I think the authenticity is maintained. If I try and force myself to do something that I don't wanna do, I it's like my wife has often said to me, if if she wants me to do something, ask me to do the opposite. Right? So From a musician's standpoint, you know, I've I've seen you play live a bunch of times, and your ability to play and sing at the same time is very impressive to me.
When you're writing lyrics and, vocal patterns and things, are you playing the guitar while you do that? I've noticed for me when I've written lyrics and vocal patterns just sitting there, you know, over the top of music, then I sit down and try to play them and sing them. It you know, sometimes it is almost impossible. Do you tend to, you know, do it both at the same time? Or Sometimes.
I mean, the the process that yields the content, like I mentioned a moment ago about Path of Leaves resistance, it sort of demonstrates itself in a number of different ways. Right? And sometimes I'll have a guitar in my hand and and a pattern will coincide with with a vocal melody and that becomes something. And other times, I'll record something first and then sing over it and then have to figure out how to do it later. And in that case, typically, what I do is I try to work with with guitar players who are better than me and then give them all the hard parts.
We're fortunate to have Mike Keneally in the band at this point, and, yeah, he's he's so good that that I feel like I can write all this crazy and then just give it to him, and then I just have to hit big open chords and make hand gestures. That's pretty much what I've always done too. I've I was very lucky to meet, one of my best friends when I was a teenager, and he was like the best guy around. And he's Totally. Just so cool as well.
And so here you go, dude. You you just get up there and shine, and, it it works out pretty nice. Yeah, man. I I'd much rather focus on the things that I that I do that's kinda unique to me as opposed to trying to compete with others when I would just makes much more sense for me to get somebody else to do that. Right?
Most people consider you one of the guitar greats. That that's pretty humble and awesome, man. I I dig hearing that. Well, thank you. I mean, I think the only thing I got going for me is not the only thing that sounds not what I'm meaning, but the thing that I've got going for me as a guitar player is I can be me.
You know? And and then if you're able to figure out who you are, then there's no need to to, like, compete in a sense. Right? Because and I often think they're like, why would somebody wanna be somebody else? Like like, I I was never great at alternate picking.
Like, I could never do, like, what Paul Gilbert does or Andy James or any of these cats that are really like that. Right? So I just was like, okay. Well, what do you do? Just do that and then try and just refine that to the point that when you're playing, you're not having to think about it.
You're not having to say, okay. Well, how's my picking today? How's my this or that? The other thing. I'm like, no.
It's just am I being true to the nature of of who I am? And then am I putting the legwork into trying to have as clear of a path to my understanding of who I am as I can? And then at that point, man, if if if the music that comes into my head requires alternate picking, as opposed to beat myself up to do something like that, I just find somebody who's awesome at that and say, can you do that? And, you know, is that comfort in sticking with what you're best at, is that kinda why you stick with the, the OpenSea tuning, that you tend to use most of the time? And how did you stumble across that?
You were the 1st guy I ever saw using that. Well, it's all Led Zeppelin. It was off of Led Zeppelin 3. I loved the sound of the song friends, and I found out that that was a tuning he used. And it's easy, right, which I also like.
But I think that there's 2 ways to look at staying within your comfort zone. There's the comfort zone of of finding the process to articulate your voice in the most efficient way, which, in this case, I would certainly include tuning or, you know, my love of echo or things into. But I don't think you can ever stay still. In fact, I think if you're comfortable on a conceptual level, you just repeat yourself over and over and over again. And, fortunately, you know, with life and kids and marriage and people passing away and pandemics and all this sort of stuff, there's a never ending barrage of uncomfortable scenarios that I'm forced to contend with.
So I would say that knowing that you have to dive into all those things that require you as a human being to step up, knowing that you have to do that, I'm fine with staying with the same tuning, man. That's the least of my worries. Well, it's it's a really fun tuning to play around in. Yeah, buddy. If you're, you know, using, 7 or even, like, an 8 string guitar, are you using the same string pattern on those as well?
Yeah. So, basically, everything's octaves and 5ths, and the reason for that is because the solidity of what it is that I'm trying to achieve on a fundamental level and this is why I say knuckle dragging. It's like if you're only octaves and 5ths and everything's, like, dead on in tune, bass guitar bass bass guitar, guitars, you know, primary synths, if you've got c g c g c, that's just octaves and 5ths. Right? And then if you have to if you want to imply a minor tonality or a suspended tonality or whatever it is, and you do that with the choirs, you do that with the orchestration, or you do that with the, your vocal line, then the solidity isn't compromised because I'm sure as a guitar player, you recognize what happens with a lot of distortion.
If you play a minor chord, like, the vibrations are are scattered. Like, it's not a a consonant sound. But if you get rid of that interval, if you get rid of that minor third and you just play octaves and fifths, it's, like, solid as a rock. So a lot of what I do, whether or not it's 7 string, 6 string, 8 string, whatever, is just maintain that octofytheth octofythe. So on an 8 string, it would be super low c g c g c g c e.
And if it was a 7 string, I just put that 7th down to a g, so it's just a 5th below. Right? Nice. Yeah. Yeah.
I finally picked up a 7 string. I I hadn't ever even played one before, but had always wanted one, especially with, you know, more and more. You're just hearing these just crushing tones coming out. Yeah. But but if I may, I mean, it's like, you know, I'm I'm I'm really close friends with a lot of guys that do that, you know, and some of the original guys that did that.
But it's, like, not my voice. It's not what I do. Right? So people say, why don't you play more 7 string? I'm like, because that's Fred.
You know what I mean? It's like, that's not what I do. That's that's him, man. And it's like, he keeps honing that. It's like you know, any friends that I have that we play a different thing, I love the idea that when we hang out or we play together, it's like it's a real definite thing.
Like, I love the color beige. I love wood. I love, you know, I love things that hone in on on who I find I am and what I can represent. And then when I'm with somebody else who's done the same thing, maybe it's, like, dark gray or black and 7 string and, like you know what I mean? Then it's 2 unique voices that are making music together, and it's not like a competition.
Like, I do like the heaviness of the low 7 or 8, but I only find that when I you know, I've been fortunate to have been provided with some of the instruments that are like that, like an 8 string and 7 string. And every time I pick it up, I don't think, oh, this is gonna expand my palate. All I do is I end up doing, like, the sugar riffs. Right? Like Yeah.
What I found myself doing was just my same riffs, but I was tuned way lower, you know, because I That's cool. See, that's cool. That's cool. But a lot of times, as soon as I pick up an A string, I just go tok tok tok tok tok tok or whatever. You know?
Then the hard part was figuring out, you know, because I've gotten Axe FX, figuring out okay. Now how do I dial this in to make, like, distortion sound good with this particular guitar? Because it's very different from when you're dialed in, you know, tuned way higher. Yeah. But I think that's a really cool opportunity, though.
Like, the thing I like about the digital stuff and the iX effects is it's a blank slate. So if you've got if you've got an objective, then it's just a matter of of listening to yourself and saying, okay. So what is who am I, and what does that sound like? And I find a lot of times if I do that, it's much different than I thought because, you know, my my if I think of myself from an objective point of view, maybe when I was younger, I wanted to be cooler than I was or wanted to fit in with a scene or whatever. And so I think, well, clearly, it's gonna be super brutal, and it's gonna have lots of black, and it's gonna be this and that.
But when I really sit back and listen, I'm like, that's not me, dude. I don't give a about that. It's like I like nature, and I like puppets, and I like, you know, like, animals, and I love physics and things like that. So finding that sound with a digital piece of gear allows you to start from scratch and then just, like, follow your your intuition. And I love the idea that through that, oftentimes, the sound that's really useful for the work that I do is nothing like what I would have assumed.
Maybe it's like a clean guitar sound. Maybe it's like, you know, I have to start a guitar sound with, like, but the the process of finding out who you are is, I I think, almost the most important part of it. Right? Well, that's one thing I've seen you do that I found very interesting when you mentioned clean tones. Like, on the the new album, the, Devolution number 3, Empath live that's coming out August 4th.
Sure. You've got the song evermore from Empath. In the beginning of that, I mean, I believe that's a clean tone, and it's just crushing. Just straight crushing. Yeah.
But, you know, it's funny. Like, that impact like, that whole record that's coming out documents a very idiosyncratic tour because unlike what what I do now where I've got, like, it's it's it's structured and it's it's really focused on the orchestration of what it's meant to sound like from the beginning. That tour was a bunch of people who didn't play that type of music, and the audience was yelling out songs when we were learning them on stage. So a lot of the ways that that record came together is is pretty different from what the intent of the song was. But it's funny because when you pointed out that guitar sound, that's exactly an example of something I didn't expect because when I wrote that riff, the down down tick it down down tick it down down tick it down down tick it down down tick it down down, I thought, well, clearly, that's a heavy sound.
Right? You gotta go for something that's probably it's like a mark 4 or something. It's a clean boost in front of it. It sound like Metallica or whatever. Right?
But then the more I started doing it, the more I realized that all the the orchestration, all the synths, and all the sort of chaos over top of it was getting lost in those frequencies. And so when I started to remove those frequencies, I found that harmonically, what distortion does with the guitar is it scatters the vibrations in the higher mid. So by taking away that distortion, these vibrations become consonant, and you can really hear those octaves and 5ths. You can hear all that stuff that's going on in the orchestration. And then by making it a clean sound, all of a sudden, I was like, wow, that's heavy as it's like I had no idea that that would be heavier than putting on, like, a distorted sound.
And and, again, that's the thing that the digital stuff really provides for me is the opportunity to surprise myself, I guess, with the the the search for tones. And when you're recording, are you running the Axe FX just right in, or are you running it into cabs and miking them? Oh, I just have an AES output, or USB output. That way I could sort of change it later, but I also don't like having the option to change things later. I like to kinda commit as we go.
That way I can move on. Right? But it's just a single AES output, so I can go digital into my Pro Tools and then comes up on input 9 and 10. And and, yeah, it's it's it's clean and and and efficient, and I just have axe edit open up on the screen so I can kinda create these presets as I go. But I also really like you know, Helix is great for making, like, ambient sounds, and there's a bunch of tools.
And I think there's I think the most important thing is less about identifying yourself with a single product and more about which one, which one facilitates your workflow in the most enjoyable way. And then once you do that, it's it's people ask, you know, do you practice? And and I think it was I think it was even Diamond Darryl who had said that, no. He doesn't practice. He plays, and I thought that was awesome.
And I totally relate to that. You know, I don't practice. I just play all the time. So Yeah. I I can totally feel that, man.
That's a that's a great quote that I'm not sure if I heard, and that's an excellent way for guitar players to look at it. Totally. Because I think as soon as you well, for some people, they love to practice. Like, they sit down and do scales, and they run it out. It's like doing it's like doing, a routine at a gym, and and I can certainly see the psychological benefits of doing that if that's how you're wired.
But I also find that because I tend to be a contrarian, like, when I'm told to do something, I just don't do it because I'm a child still. There's, just flipping that script a little bit for myself and say, okay. I'm not practicing. I'm just gonna play for a while. That keeps my chops up, I think.
And, you know, back to that live album where you were talking about learning these songs on stage, I was looking at the track list for that. I mean, this goes all over the place through your catalog. I mean It does. You've got strapping young lad tracks in there. I mean With with Che who sings country music and and pop music and Morgan who's, like, just avant garde drummer and you know what I mean?
So asking them to do the strapping stuff was hilarious because they're having to learn it. And I think maybe what would happen with with people who have who might hear that record, this new thing coming out is the first thing ever is they think, wow. It doesn't sound quite right. But the point of it was it was people who had no awareness of that style of music in a lot of ways. And people saying play Casualty's Cool, play Kingdom, play Deadhead, play Strapping, and then bunch of people on stage just trying to figure it out.
It's pretty fun, man. It was pretty fun. Oh, it must have been a blast for the crowd. It sucked for the sound, man. I'll tell you that.
Oh, yeah. That that would be quite the challenge. I would imagine. Yeah. I remember after the shows, he'd be just like, dude, go yourself.
And is that going to be an audio only release, or are they are you guys putting out video for it as well? No. It's just audio. So, basically, that Devolution series, during the pandemic, Inside Out Records, who are a great record label, but also friends of mine, devised the idea of the Devolution series as, like, sort of lower priority records. And by that, I mean, you know, when for every record like Empath or Light Work or Sincaster or whatever I put out, they're kinda like main releases, if you wanna look at it that way.
But the Devolution series are things that I have on the side that I think are of interest to maybe the more diehard fans. And then there are just things that it's an opportunity for that to come out. Like, there was acoustic record live at Leeds. There was a galactic quarantine where I did a green screen studio with, like, Wes Hauck and Liam, Liam Wilson on bass. And and so that was the second one.
And then this crazy live in America thing is is is the next one. So it's not like a main release, but I think it's interesting enough to focus on. Well, I'm really excited to check the full thing out. You know, been a fan again since I was a a teenager and, you know Thanks, buddy. Gotta thank you again for taking a few to chat with me today.
You know, I know you're Of course. Busy out on the road there, and I I really hope the tour continues to go well. And I know you were talking about taking a break from touring for a while to work on new stuff. But Well, I've got a I've got a symphony I've been writing for the past couple years, and I love touring. I love being able to connect with the audience, and and I I really will always do that, I'm sure.
But it's been many years since Ocean Machine, basically, where I've been able to really sit with material and hone it into something that is really special. And because this symphony I've been doing is kinda like life's work in some ways, I I just wanna allow myself the opportunity to give it the attention it needs as opposed to, like, leaving every 2 months to do a tour and then having 2 weeks on either end when I'm You know? So so just getting some momentum is more the intent with staying home rather than coming off the road, if that makes sense. Like, I'm like, I'm not trying to say, like, oh, you know, I'm hand against the forehead. Like, I'm not touring now or whatever.
I'm just like, it's really important for this next thing to be awesome, and it's so distracting to have to go and come back and go and come back that I'll put that on hold until this is done, and then I'll start it up again. Awesome. Well, I I really can't wait to hear that. I believe I've read you in other interviews talking about that for a really long time, so it's very exciting. Be weird at least.
You know? It'll be expensive if nothing else. So you'll be bringing in a full on orchestra, kind kinda like with Empath. Oh, no. Much more so.
More so? More so. Oh, it's a gong show, man. But it's like, because it's gonna cost stupid amounts of money, I just wanna make sure that it doesn't totally suck. So that's why I'm staying home for a bit.
Alright. Well, I can't imagine it would totally suck. But, I man, I'm gonna have some vote of confidence. Thanks. Well, thanks again for hanging out with me today, man.
Next time you're on the road anywhere near here, I hope to make it to a show, and, you know, just good luck with everything, man. You're, you know man. Where are you? Are you in Los Angeles? I'm in East Idaho as a matter of fact.
That's even better, man. Yeah. Well, if if, if we're there, we hope to see you, and thanks for the interview, brother. The artist's interrogations podcast is a production of Riverbend Media Group. For more information or to contact the show, visit riverbendmediagroup.com.