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Ohio's public schools serve 1.6 million children - 90 percent of students in the state! What happens in the classroom has impacts far beyond the walls of the K-12 school building or higher ed lecture hall. So, on behalf of the 120,000 members of the Ohio Education Association, we're taking a deeper dive into some of the many education issues facing our students, educators, and communities. Originally launched in 2021 as Education Matters, Public Education Matters is your source for insightful conversations with the people who shape the education landscape in Ohio. Have a topic you'd like to hear about on Public Education Matters? Email us at educationmatters@ohea.org
Various student voices 0:08
Public education matters. Public education matters. Public education matters.
Jeff Wensing 0:15
This is Public Education Matters brought to you by the Ohio Education Association.
Katie Olmsted 0:26
Welcome back to Public Education Matters. I'm your host, Katie Olmsted, and I'm part of the communications team for the nearly 120,000 public school educators. The Ohio Education Association represents in communities across the state those OEA members, teachers, higher ed faculty, education support professionals and others are organized into more than 700 local associations. Some big. The Columbus Education Association, for example, has more than 4000 members. Others are small, some really small, like the eight member local representing individual and small group instruction teachers in Bay Village schools, those are certified intervention specialists and reading specialists, what are sometimes referred to as tutors. In other districts in Bay, they have a really small local with a really long name, the Bay Individual/Small Group Instruction Teachers Association, B, I S, G, I, T, A or BISGITA for short, but even with only eight members, they have a powerful voice in creating the learning conditions their students need to succeed. We sat down with the BISGITA president to learn more.
Jackie Hartsel 1:47
Hi, I'm Jackie Hartsel. I am the current president of BISGITA, and that stands for Bay Individual/Small Group Instruction Teachers Association, and that is in Bay Village, Ohio.
Katie Olmsted 2:02
What is BISGITA? Who are your members?
Jackie Hartsel 2:06
Well, right now we are eight members. There are nine that are covered under our contract, and we are considered reading specialists, which may be like what you might call title or tutors in other districts, and we are intervention specialists. We have three intervention specialists, and the rest are considered reading specialist. Basically, it's hourly workers that are certified, is what the BISGITA members comprise of.
Katie Olmsted 2:40
And why have your own local? What does that allow you to do?
Jackie Hartsel 2:46
I'm not sure, like how it started, and I don't know why we're excluded from Bay, but we are excluded from their contract, and I think the biggest difference is that we are the hourly workers versus the Bay Teachers Association, which are certified personnel that are mainly comprised of full time employees. What's nice our contract is not as extensive as the Bay Teachers Association, but it does parallel. It. You know, we have the same work days, and that's a thing in other districts, a lot of tutors, they don't even have the same work days. They don't attend the PDs, they don't attend conferences, they don't do these other things that we do in Bay. So that is something that does make a difference, I believe, as well.
Katie Olmsted 3:37
Absolutely, you know, just the nuts and bolts of a contract, there would be some differences in terms of just what you're trying to make sure is covered. What's it like for you to try to navigate that?
Jackie Hartsel 3:48
Well, and that's the part of being president that we really have to be steadfast, because they want to integrate us, to do more work, more encompass of what Bay Teachers Association. But I think the defining difference is that we're hourly, so we're not salary. I, we don't expect to take home work or, you know, we're not working for free. You know what I'm saying? You pay for the month you do exactly. So I know this past negotiation, they really wanted to change our definition. They wanted to make us to where we co-taught, and we were really steadfast against no because the main difference is we supplant instruction. We do not provide instruction. Now the only difference would be for, like our reading specialists that provide Wilson instruction, and so that would be tier three kiddos that are on IEPs and they do not receive. So they so typically, you they students in third grade receive foundations within the classroom, but instead, our reading specialists provide Wilson instruction. So they pull out and do a small group Wilson instruction versus the foundations in the classroom. And that's because these kiddos are on an IEP, so they have some degree of dyslexia, and they're not thriving in that environment, so they kind of slow down the they have a separate instruction where it's very slow, or it's much slower, and that way that they can provide key components of instruction to them that to meet their needs, our reading specialists also provide what's called 95% Instruction, which is like a tier two. So those may not, those typically are not kids that are on IEPs. It could be, but typically not. And they would, they would provide that, but most of the time when kiddos get 95 it it's like double dipping. They're also receiving their instruction in the classroom, but these are hitting maybe the rules or phonetics that they have missed or there's gaps, so.
Katie Olmsted 6:17
I feel like what you just said there highlights the value of BISGITA members very well in that you are able to meet students individual needs to. Yes. To ensure that the students get what they need to succeed.
Jackie Hartsel 6:36
Yes and probably the main difference, since we are certified, we do do progress monitoring, and we do write those IEPs, whether it's our reading specialists that add those components to the IEPs, along with the intervention specialists, you know, we, you know, combine our efforts to comprise those IEPs for those kiddos that do have IEPs or on tier three, you know, instruction.
Katie Olmsted 7:03
With only nine of you across the district. Yeah. Are you stretched pretty thin?
Jackie Hartsel 7:09
Um, it's fairly well dispersed, because when you think about it, the way, Bay Village is so small, so we have our kiddos that are at the k1 two building, and we have two reading specialists there, and we want have one intervention specialist there. In the building I work at is just third and fourth grade. We have two reading specialists there, and I am the intervention specialist there. And then we have one intervention specialist at the middle school. We also have Saint Raphael's, which, you know, under federal guidelines, they do have reading specialists there, which in other districts would be like the tutors so and that's where two people are. The one is a member. The one is not the other one there is truly, like our only, really what I consider part time, who's only there, like 20 hours a week for the remaining eight members of BISGITA we our contracted times are anywhere from six hours to seven and a half hours a day. So and those are our contracted hour times.
Katie Olmsted 8:24
One thing I have to imagine in the contract is ensuring that you do have adequate coverage, that they can't just not have enough people in those buildings. Is that accurate?
Jackie Hartsel 8:37
Yes, that is accurate. And you know, of course, there's things in the contract where they may adjust your hours and stuff, but we really don't really see a lot of like you would see in the inner city schools, of kids moving in and out frequently. So that's what I think that's one of the reasons we don't have to contend with that. I do know, for our reading specialist, we've really fought hard because part of our definition, our contract is for small group instruction. So where we supplant, we can only work with five students at a time. So, you know, especially post covid, there's been more need for reading instruction, but we've really been steadfast that you cannot add to our reading specialist plates by making the groups larger or giving them so many groups where they don't have their 45 minute consecutive plan time, where they don't have time for a launch, things of that nature. Now, if they wanted to increase the hours, that would be a different story, because most of our reading specialists are contracted for six hours per day.
Katie Olmsted 9:47
Got it but the temptation to make you do more with less, and really, you know, that's not the point of small group instruction. The point is to make sure that students get that individualized attention and they have the plan time to give them exactly what they need. They can't. They can't mess with that.
Jackie Hartsel 10:06
And so when it comes to bargaining, that has been the biggest issue, where we butt heads, because, of course, they want more. You know, that's just normal. So, and we've really been steadfast like no that is our definition. That is our purpose. If you want us to do more than you need to make us full time and move us into the other union.
Katie Olmsted 10:25
Absolutely.
Jackie Hartsel 10:27
So.
Katie Olmsted 10:28
But your union is powerful in itself. You are small but mighty. It occurs to me, if you have eight members, all of you have leadership roles, right?
Jackie Hartsel 10:40
Pretty much, we would say 50% because we have the president, the vice president, the treasurer and the secretary, so.
Katie Olmsted 10:50
What is that like, operating in a space like that?
Jackie Hartsel 10:56
Well, I find it easier. Okay, you know, I, you know, if we want to have a meeting, or, you know, we're like, hey, heads up, you know, look for this about voting or whatever, I can just send out a group text. It's not that hard to do to eight members. You know what I'm saying. So or, Hey, check your personal email. I've sent you an email. You know, things of that nature. So communication is really swift. So that is really the good part. Um. The downside is, when you look at a union with only eight members, it's hard to get people to get involved, yeah, and do stuff, um, you know. So it's kind of hard to increase our involvement, per se, but you know, on the other hand, of it is less is needed, I feel, yeah, so, and a lot of it, I think, just comes down to me, whenever there's an issue, because, you know, there, there's not that many people to disperse things so and luckily, with only eight members, as you would expect, there's not a lot of issues that come up, right? So there are some, but we kind of table those for bargaining.
Katie Olmsted 12:18
Right. So it's, it's not the individual issues. It's the the class issues, the class of small group instruction notes.
Jackie Hartsel 12:25
It's our contract, yeah, and if it's not in our contract, we're not going to do it. Doesn't matter how nicely you ask us or whatever. And that that, I mean, I think that that's natural for people, especially for teachers. We want to be team players. We want to do what's best for the students. We want to help the students. But we have to realize too, we are hourly employees, and we have to have that, that that home and work kind of balance. And so I'm kind of that's one thing that I'm constantly reminding my members. You know, if they want more than they may need to make us full time that we can't, you know, we really have to draw that hard line in the sand.
Katie Olmsted 13:13
And a contact is only as strong as your willingness to enforce it.
Jackie Hartsel 13:17
Exactly. Yeah, exactly.
Katie Olmsted 13:21
So talk to me a little bit about how you make that pitch when I don't know what the turnover is for people in your job descriptions, but when they, when they show up at the district and you say, hey, there's, there's eight of us, come be one of us, how do you make that pitch?
Jackie Hartsel 13:39
And you know, I think that our lowest seniority member, we're like in our fifth year, because I'm one of the lowest seniority members, so there is not a high turnover. And our longest is a reading specialist, and she's like, and I don't know offhand, but it's 20 some years in her position. So one of the things we tried to bargain for we were not successful was longevity pay. Yeah, because, and, you know, like a lot of other districts, tutors, who are usually certified, they're just like, it's like, get your foot in the door. There's a high turnover rate. They really don't value and I think that that's what makes Bay different. They do treat their members well, you know, as far as pay and benefits and the other things, and there's not a high turnover rate, which really leads them to be, you know, even more specialized in their area, you kind of get a feel for things the more years you're in it, and especially if they introduce new things, like we introduced the 95% a few years ago, and it took a minute, but like, we're in our third year, so our reading specialists really have a good handle and that they implemented that. As a tier two, so that we have three separate programs. So tier one being in the classroom, tier two would basically be double dipping. The kids get it in the classroom, and then they get the 95% and then the Wilson being the tier three, which is a separate program in and of itself that those kiddos need to meet their needs. So that is one of the biggest differences, and I don't think that a lot of districts really define that with their tutors. I worked part time in a public school for many years. I was a air quote "tutor", and it was just really loosey goosey. It was just like, you know, kind of do what you feel. We weren't ascribed a certain program. We weren't ascribed, you know. And granted, the laws may have changed now, since the science of reading is now a law and everything, but I feel that that's the main difference. For a lot of districts, it's very well defined and vague. Where I feel in other districts a tutor, even though they're certified as a little bit more loosey goosey.
Katie Olmsted 16:07
And it demonstrates, again, the value of the work that you do, and that the district is recognizing that, what difference does it make for students to have that small group instruction and to have experienced professionals like you with those defined programs providing that?
Jackie Hartsel 16:26
Well, I think that Bay, particularly the building that I'm in that services third and fourth grade Bay overall I mean scores is a very high ranking district in Ohio, so that right there shows you something. Third grade I mean, I don't know, since I've been there, all of our third graders have passed the Third Grade Reading Guarantee. How many districts can say that 100? You know? So I, yes. So whether it's from taking just the Ohio State test or one of the alternative tests, because they do get that additional support. And I feel that our people are, you know, experts in that area. It's not like there's a high turnover. They've only been there a year or two, and they're just feeling their way and, you know, figuring it out as they go. So I really think that that makes a big difference. And I really do think that the citizens of Bay, the residents that live there, that is something that they've come to expect, you know, but they do support. I mean, I don't know, I don't know the history. There's only been two levies since I've been there the past five years, and they both passed so especially in this day and age, because it was last year that they, you know, the year before that, they passed the levy. I mean, in this climate and, you know, especially with costs rising post covid, I mean, how many districts have actually passed levies? So that, right there, tells you something, this is something that the residents of Bay they expect.
Katie Olmsted 18:04
Why do you do the job? What do you love about it?
Jackie Hartsel 18:08
Well, I've been in education for a long time, and I've worked in the inner city for 20 years, for over 20 years before I was just like, covid just kind of killed it to me. I've worked in public schools. I've worked in charter schools, I've worked on the administration, and I've worked in the classroom. I have my reading endorsement. I have my intervention degree, as well as my classroom overall degree. I'm old school, so I'm through eighth grade. I spent the like half of my career in junior high, and for me, I really like working in intervention as an intervention specialist, and I particularly like third and fourth grade. I just think that that's just where, like, I have the most impact. And you can really see things click with kids and see their growth. You know, where it happens so quickly at those ages. So for me, that's what I enjoy about my job. That's what gets me to work every day. So I just love it.
Katie Olmsted 19:17
What would it be like to do your job without your union?
Jackie Hartsel 19:21
Well, it would be, I think, like most places, we would not have bargaining power. So as you were saying before, it's like they would expect a lot more from us with a lot less. You know, we would not be able to, yeah, we would not be able to advocate for ourselves, our autonomy, and we would not be able to advocate as well for the children, like the supplies that we need, the programs we want to implement, you know, and like I say, like the 95% came around a few years ago, and that was through conversations and input, especially with our reading specialists. Going, this doesn't really fit the needs of tier two to be doing Wilson, you know, it moves too slow. This is and so we shopped around, and we decided this is tier one, this is tier two, and this is the instruction for tier three, which, when you think about it, it makes sense, because if you're not really getting one instruction, because then what it was here too, they would either do Wilson or they would just double dip fundations. But if you're not getting one program, just hitting it a second time during the day, we we just looked at the data. It's like, this is not really helping, you know? It's not increasing their achievement, so they looked for, you know, something that was more suitable.
Katie Olmsted 20:45
And the educators, the people who know the needs of these students, had a meaningful voice in that conversation and in that decision making, because the union allowed you to have that.
Jackie Hartsel 20:56
Yes, and I find that that's different than other districts, because you figure, especially if you're a new teacher, and I find that in other districts, a lot of the tutors who are certified, they're either at the beginning of their career or they're at the end of their career, but you're not going to be aware of all the different things. You're not going to have that networking, you're not going to have that professional development. You're not going to have that experience to know that this is what the kids need. You're just simply because you're not aware that other options are available.
Katie Olmsted 21:31
Well, I very much appreciate you sitting down to talk to us about what's available for BISGITA members. Yes, I'm not going to try to say the acronym out loud, like just keep tripping over it, but it's a long one, a small group, a mighty group, and so, so important. Jackie, thank you so much.
Jackie Hartsel 21:51
Thank you.
Katie Olmsted 21:55
That does it for this episode of public education matters. Please make sure you subscribe to public education matters, wherever you get your podcasts, so you don't miss an episode in the future, we have a lot of good conversations still ahead this season, including a sit down with the new mayor of Westerville, who happens to be a Westerville Education Association leader too, a deep dive into a new report on charter schools with the head of the network for public education action with recommendations for laws that need to change right now, and an update from Chardon Education Association member Dan Heintz about where things stand with the vouchers hurt Ohio lawsuit and what educators need to be talking about in their own districts. And those are just a few of the things on the docket as new episodes continue to drop every Thursday for the rest of the school year. We hope you'll continue to join us for these insightful discussions about the issues impacting Ohio's public education landscape every day, because in Ohio, public education matters.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai