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Two deranged lawyers talking about our deranged obsessions.
Raven Sinner (00:01)
Thanks for watching!
Raven (00:26)
Hello derangers and welcome back to deranged de jure, your favorite podcast, bringing you two deranged lawyers talking about our deranged obsessions. I'm Raven, as usual, and I'm joined by my co -host.
Pisha (00:44)
Pisha, who continues to like prematurely interductiate right now. Like, did you see me? I was like, ready to go. I'm like, me? But then I didn't go when it was my, whatever. I always mess up the introductions, but it's something that I now take pride in. Find new ways to screw it up. Exactly.
Raven (00:51)
Internet nuts.
You are ready!
Yeah, this is your stick. This is your stick. Screwing up is your stick.
Pisha (01:07)
Everyone's like, we got to listen to the intro of DDJ this week so we can hear P -Show screw up the introduction. She can't say her own name. That I made up, right? Like I made this name up when I was a child. I should be able to say it with like power and confidence, but it's fine.
Raven (01:13)
Yeah.
Let's see how she fucks it up this time.
You have had like 30, almost 37. We're getting very close to your birthday. 37 years, so yeah. Not to out you, not to out, that was rude, I'm sorry. Okay.
Pisha (01:31)
I know we're, we're getting there. it, that's fine. It might take another 37 years though, to get this introduction down. So we'll figure it out, but you know what also, right? what also is happening today? It's Juneteenth.
Raven (01:42)
Listen, we'll be here.
yes it is. Yes it is. Happy Juneteenth. Yes. Yeah. What a day.
Pisha (01:52)
Happy Juneteenth. What a day indeed. This is when all Americans, and by all I mean probably still not all of them, but whatever. The majority of Americans were finally free and on paper. And so awesome day, beautiful month of June. It is windy as shit here.
Raven (02:10)
or at least on paper.
Boo.
Pisha (02:21)
but it's a good Juneteenth for me.
Raven (02:24)
Yeah, it was a lovely day here, although I was inside working on an answer brief all day. Basically, I'm over incarceration, so I felt like it was a very good like Juneteenth thing to do. So, yeah.
Pisha (02:34)
Hey, yeah, I was gonna say like, that's a really great way to honor Juneteenth. Be like, working on our screwed up criminal system that was clearly created to keep the black people from excelling in life. But whatever, we've talked about it before. That's not what this episode's about. I'm sure. Right, right.
Raven (02:40)
Yeah, I wasn't mad. Yeah.
We're gonna talk about it again, I'm sure. So, it's who we are as people. So, yeah. But yeah, there's been a lot going, God, there's been so much going on in the news. Gypsy Rose has a new show coming out, which I am super stoked for. I think it starts on Monday, right?
Pisha (03:11)
I don't know. You would know this. You're the one who would know this, not me. Okay, so I'll tune in. I actually didn't know she had a new show coming out, but it doesn't surprise me because with her quick departure from her marriage, it just led me to believe she got some sort of Hollywood deal or something. And that guy, I don't know, like you've seen him in the show.
Raven (03:15)
It comes out on Monday. It comes out on Monday. Yeah.
I think Ryan's actually gonna be part of the show. I think so, yeah.
Pisha (03:38)
my God, I was gonna say he's like one of the most boring human beings like I've ever heard in my life. So I thought they were just waiting for him to leave so they could make it exciting again. They're like, thank God.
Raven (03:44)
Yeah, they couldn't stay married. They're like, great, he's out of the way. I think it's gonna be a little bit dramatic. Like I think they're gonna like put in some stuff about like, is she gonna go back to whatever, I can't remember the name of her ex or is she gonna go back with Ryan? We don't know at this point. So, but listen here, derangers. I am a Gypsy Rose supporter through and through. So I, you know, I'm gonna be like,
Pisha (04:04)
So it's like.
Yeah!
Raven (04:13)
helping her monetize her after trauma.
Pisha (04:17)
absolutely. I'm in full support of monetizing your after trauma. And I don't care if you used this really boring guy to like make you look better to get out of prison. Like you were going to get out of prison anyways. Like whatever you broke his heart, whatever. As long as he doesn't go shoot up a post office, I think we're going to be fine. He does look like the type though. He kinda looks like the type.
Raven (04:18)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
NAH!
my god, I don't want to predict anything. But yeah, so that's happening. That's past Deranged Jure content. In other news, in Deranged Jure prior episodes, as you know, I've been watching the Delphi murderers very closely.
Pisha (04:56)
Or as I continue to say, the Delphi murders. Cause I can't, I just can't, I just can't do it. So anyways, the Delphi. Yeah. Del -ly Delphi. okay. I feel slightly less stupid now. Thank you. But go on, tell us the updates in the case.
Raven (04:59)
You can call it what you want.
Well, it's like deli, deli, and then you'd think it'd be Delphi. But yeah. Yeah, you're welcome. But.
So the attorneys in that case continue to be very creative and they have named the judge as a witness. They have spent multiple motions, efforts, in order to try and get rid of this judge. If you go for the king, make sure that you kill him is what we like to say. And they haven't killed her yet, so, but this one might do it. They've named her as a witness.
claiming that she has been witnessed to the Department of Corrections, who has been a big part of this case, do some really shady shit to their client. So they've named her as a witness. They're asking for her recusal again. I don't know how many times this is, maybe like the third or fourth time, maybe fifth. So...
Pisha (06:05)
is there merit behind it? I mean, obviously there's rule 11 filing stuff, but like, that's the right rule, right? Okay, good, take that out if I'm wrong. But like, they have to have some merit in their minds as attorneys behind it. They must honestly believe they're gonna call her as a witness to testify. I just.
Raven (06:15)
That is the right rule, yeah. But...
Pisha (06:30)
I wonder if she has the same feeling as to the testimonial weight she has. Does that make sense? Because I would see a judge looking at this and being like, come on guys, you couldn't recuse me the traditional ways. You can't do it this entirely creative way, like super innovative. But like, no, you're not actually gonna call me as a witness in this regard. You've got plenty of other witnesses who can testify to this.
Raven (06:59)
I really don't know. That's the thing is this is I've never heard of this. When I saw this article come up, I was like, what has I done throughout this entire case? I've been like, what? So sure. Yeah. Like any you want to make it so that yeah. So that you don't become a witness as an attorney. But yeah, it's beyond I don't know. I don't know how much merit there is to it.
Pisha (07:09)
Yeah.
Right, and I've seen it where they've called attorneys before. But never the judge.
Right.
Raven (07:29)
I only read the articles, I haven't read the motion yet because I was too busy researching the Iran -Contra affair. Queen of procrastination, am I? So,
Pisha (07:35)
all the stuff we're gonna talk about today.
Raven (07:41)
So, on that note, yeah. So, I guess we, last time we talked about good old Ronnie Reg and some of his domestic terrorism. But this time around, we're going foreign policy. So, just as a precursor, so you all know that...
Pisha (07:48)
Ronnie Reich.
Yep.
Raven (08:02)
Pisha and I are both political science majors. Obviously, this is a long time ago and like, I barely remember anything as it is. But when I was doing this research, I remember my professor in foreign policy basically saying like the average American knows like jack shit about foreign policy. And then like the people who know the most about foreign policy like know like maybe this much more.
And today I learned I am an average American. So yay for that. Yeah. Yeah. Heart same.
Pisha (08:32)
Yeah, same. I mean, same. My degree was in European politics, but it wasn't foreign policy. Like, there's a very big distinction between those things.
Raven (08:41)
No, yeah, and -
Right. And I feel like we really barely scratched the surface when we talked about this when I was in foreign policy. But in any case, we are going to talk about Ronald Reagan's doctrine and how he fucked up foreign policy for us. I mean, listen, America is shit, which I feel very confident in saying I'm not very confident in a lot of my opinions, but like,
Pisha (08:58)
Hotline!
Raven (09:15)
Man, we have fucked up so much shit around the world. It's ridiculous. And then it's wild because you go abroad, you go to Europe, for example, or you go anywhere else in the world and people hate America. And you're like, how come? And it's because we don't teach our kids what we do to the rest of the world. It's pretty fucking terrible. So.
Pisha (09:41)
Right. Yeah. Well, I know in, I think Germany, they have a required high school level course for their children on American exceptionalism and about how America just thinks they're the best thing that's ever existed. And this is how you deal with America and their foreign policy, like just all this stuff. And it's like, it's so true. We, why don't we just mind our own business and
Raven (10:07)
I don't know.
Pisha (10:08)
like when we do meddle we meddle so badly. And we're going to talk about that a lot today because there was a mighty amount of meddling going on during the Reagan years. So you tell us what is the Reagan doctrine? The doctrine of Reagan.
Raven (10:12)
So bad. Yeah, a lot.
very true.
The dot trying is, so it was a strategy that was implemented by Reagan that this is all in the context of the Cold War where he's essentially trying
get rid of,
all of the communist powers in the rest of the world. So, in the words of our Lord and Savior, I'm saying that very like sarcastically, Ronald Reagan, he said in his State of the Union address, we must not break faith with those who are risking their lives on every continent from Afghanistan to Nicaragua, which will become very
Pisha (10:58)
Yeah.
Raven (11:11)
relevant later to defy Soviet supported aggression and secure rights which have been ours from birth. So trying to like pull in some like founding fathers shit.
Pisha (11:23)
I was gonna say like, who's since birth? They're not, what? We're over here in America. Why, let's, whatever. There's other reasons why we were interested in Afghanistan and Nicaragua. We'll talk about it later. But yeah, no, it's just weird. It's so weird the context you put it into of like, we're stamping out the Cold War, but by doing so, we're gonna do these really.
Raven (11:27)
I don't know. No, it is.
I agree.
yeah, that. that place. yeah.
Pisha (11:52)
morally terrible and unethical things.
Raven (11:55)
Yeah, absolutely. And of course, there's like a reason why he doesn't want leftist and like Marxist countries to take over because the threat is that they will spread to America, which is a threat to capitalism and to our, you know, I'm not going to call it a dictatorship because it's not, but like, but yeah, yeah.
Pisha (12:17)
Our oligarchs though, like our oligarchal families, there's top 1 % of wealth that's is amongst one, like 10 families, right? 10 to 14 families control 98 % of America's wealth. Like that's no, that's an oligarchy, like by definition. And you're telling me they don't have more influence in politics and yet.
Raven (12:35)
Yeah.
Pisha (12:43)
There's unlimited amount of spending power for campaigns. There's dark money running rampant because the Supreme Court won't do shit. It's just nuts. They're bought off. It's a sham. It's a partisan sham. No apologies necessary. It's very insane.
Raven (12:51)
Because the Supreme Court's bought off. I mean, I'm sorry, but it's insane. We live in an insane world. I mean, everything has just come to a front. And so I guess it's important to look back at history and go, OK, this didn't come from nowhere. We're not looking at a Supreme Court that is severely compromised and a, you know,
an oligarchical system with like Congress and Senate and a convicted felon presidential candidate. Yeah, we're not.
Pisha (13:25)
running for president. He can't serve in the military, but he can command them. Where is the logic? There's none. We are so off track. Yeah, let's get back on. And I'll take over because I like reading this next part, I guess.
Raven (13:37)
Okay, so should we get back on? Okay, all right.
Okay, go ahead, go ahead, I'll let you.
Pisha (13:48)
under the Reagan Doctrine, the United States provided overt and covert aid to anti -communist guerrillas and resistance movements in an effort to roll back Soviet -backed pro -communist governments in Africa, Asia, and Latin America. The doctrine was designed to diminish Soviet influence in these regions as a part of the administration's overall strategy to win the Cold War. And so these governments were...
not necessarily Soviet or Russian. Like that's one of the misconceptions was that every member of the USSR was a Russian government. These were usually local governments that were put into place by Soviets that would continue their doing in the region. And so,
So you get all these pro -communist governments and then Reagan's idea was to break with the doctrine of containment, which was established during the Truman administration. And President Ronald Reagan's foreign policy was instead based on John Foster Dola's rollback strategy from the 1950s. What a great time. Those conservatives just loved the 1950s.
Raven (15:10)
They just, yeah, I don't know why.
Pisha (15:12)
right? But I don't know why either. It wasn't great for everyone. But anyway, so the point was to actively push back the influence of the Soviet Union. Reagan's policy differed, though, in the sense that he relied primarily on the overt support of those fighting Soviet dominance. And it also differed in that he tended to support more radical groups as opposed to some of the more
Raven (15:17)
Mm -mm.
Pisha (15:42)
I don't know. Moderate, yes, thank you. The more moderate ones. So the strategy was perhaps best encapsulated in the National Security Decision Directive 75. In this 1983 directive, it stated that a central priority of the US in this policy toward the Soviet Union would be to contain and over time reverse Soviet expansionism, particularly in the developing world. Because like you said,
Raven (15:43)
Moderate? Mm -hmm. There you go.
Pisha (16:11)
We don't want the developing world getting any ideas that communism and socialism and leftist forms of competition, economic markets that compete with capitalism might take hold and therefore threaten our capitalist ways of life. So.
Raven (16:31)
Right, well because they support our capitalist way of life. Like if they're not under our thumb, if they're under their own thumb, for example, then we don't have the ability to control them, which is the entire thing driving the Reagan doctrine. So, and that's why it sucks so fucking much. So, yeah. Yeah. So.
Pisha (16:34)
Exactly.
It really does. So how to play out with the Iran Contra?
Raven (16:54)
Yeah, so under this Reagan doctrine, the CIA also trained and assisted other anti -communist insurgencies worldwide, including in places like Nicaragua, which we'll get to. So the Iran -Contra affair is a scandal which is related towards both Iran, our arms for hostage deal in Iran,
and trying to also fund the anti -Sandanista group, the Contras in Nicaragua. And so that's why I was saying that the Nicaragua part was going to be particularly of interest. So, I mean, so we've really had our hand in a lot of the Latin American world, especially like after Simon Bolivar and after we had a hold on
Nicaragua in like the early part of the 20th century. And so there was a time when we actually like somewhat controlled Nicaragua until what ultimately became the Sandinistas came in and expelled them. So there's the Ayatollah Khomeini who you may have heard of in Iran is kind of the
the key player over there.
So he was on who toppled the Shah, Muhammad Reza Pahlavi, who I'll get back to in just a minute. So.
Pisha (18:28)
Which by the way, there's a book called, it's a graphic novel called Persepolis or Persepolis. It's all about the fall of the Shah of Iran and the Ayatollah taking over. And it's all about, it documents this woman's childhood growing up in Iran. And it's a graphic novel. It is so fascinating, so good, but really interesting stuff because,
Raven (18:36)
okay.
Mmm.
Pisha (18:56)
A lot of people thought that the Ayatollah was going to be better because the Shah was not great. But the problem with the Ayatollah was that the Ayatollah was way more religiously minded and started persecuting people based on religious beliefs and strict adherence to Islam. Whereas the Shah was a little bit more politically minded as opposed to
Raven (19:01)
Yeah. Right.
Mhm.
Yeah.
Pisha (19:21)
to religiously minded. So yeah, he sucked in that he took out his political opponents, but he wasn't like forcing Sharia law in the country. That wasn't my understanding of how it works. So really fascinating stuff. I just wanted to throw that out there so that people could check it out.
Raven (19:36)
The whole history of the Middle East and Islam is really interesting because I think a lot of people in the Western world tend to view that area as being backward. I just think that there's different eras in religion, and they just happen to be in the era that goes backwards. Honestly, we kind of are too. If you look at our policies, it's not quite to the extent that it is in the Middle East, but I think that you can like and...
Pisha (20:00)
Yeah, but we just overturned Roe v Wade. Roe v Wade had had 50 years of precedent. So you could say that we are religiously going backwards in time exactly in the same way. Right.
Raven (20:11)
And Alabama today, today, just implemented a law saying that the 10 commandments have to be in every single classroom. So, mm -hmm. So the, I can't wait to see what the Satanic temple does with that because I'm sure they will.
Pisha (20:21)
my god.
Okay.
I know because I love the Satanic temple because they actually don't really believe in Satan. My favorite part fact about the Satanic temple is that they purely exist for freedom of religion and for fighting all the bullshit that these like Christian evangelical fundamentalists are trying to impose on the rest of us. So like I'm a big fan of the Satanic temple because they don't, yeah.
Raven (20:36)
Yeah.
For freedom, yeah, for religious freedom.
Yeah.
Yeah, there's actually a really big temple here in Denver. So we should check it out when you're up here. Yeah, because I've been meaning to like actually do something with them because that's also big. Yeah, I would love to do something satanic.
Pisha (20:59)
Really? Ooh, yes, yes. Okay, I was hoping you'd say that.
Satanic. I've been meaning to get into the business of Satan. Yeah, yeah, no, but I know what you mean. Cool. Yeah.
Raven (21:14)
Aren't we all? So, yeah, but anyway, so that's what's going on. Yeah, so to some degree, you're right. Like, I mean, so there is some like religious backwardness here. It's not quite to the effect of like of what's going on in the Middle East. And this is all coming from stuff that I learned like 20 years ago at this point because of college. But like, I mean, a lot of the things that like that they were like a lot of scholars were likening it
the Spanish Inquisition. It's like the Crusades. So it's similar, like every, like I said, every religion has kind of its own era because if you look back at Islam, it had a very like Renaissance -ish like type of era where they were incredibly like rich in like culture and intellect and all of this stuff and like were very leaning into like a lot of
Pisha (21:42)
yeah.
Mm -hmm.
Raven (22:04)
progressive stuff. Sorry, I'm getting way off track, but this is like important and cool.
So there used to be this show called Sex and Love Around the World. It was with Christiane Amanpour.
So Christiana Amenpour put together the show and actually went back and went to one of the Middle Eastern countries, I'm forgetting which one at this point, but looking at the religious texts from the early like middle ages. And it talks about like, what you need to do to please like the woman and like, and very like.
risque and the scholars were very uncomfortable with it these days. But it's really interesting. So like, so that's that's I'm bringing that up because it's relevant to like looking at the Ayatollah. And obviously, like, you know, there was a huge like religious conservatism that like that came with that. And unfortunately, like the Middle East has kind of suffered with this kind of back and forth and and in spite of like the very rich, very beautiful culture.
have been dealing with some religious zealots that are acting like it's the Spanish Inquisition slash the Crusades. So that's why I brought that up. So that's happening in Iran. Ayatollah Khomeini comes into power taking over from the Shah. And then in Nicaragua, the Sandinistas, like I had mentioned, had taken control from Anastasio Somoza de Baila. I think that's how you say his name. So...
The Sandinistas were named after Cesar Augusto Sandino, who is a hero of the Nicaraguan resistance to the US military occupation, which occurred from 1927 to 1933.
Pisha (23:47)
Wait, the resistance to the US military operation? We gave money to people named, my God. Okay, sorry, sorry. I was just connecting some dots right there. Please continue.
Raven (23:50)
Occupation.
We did, so yeah.
no, this has been like, this entire thing for me has been like, what the fuck?
Pisha (24:05)
It's like, we could have never seen this coming that the guys who named themselves after the guys who beat us, ugh, idiots, my God.
Raven (24:16)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. So the Sandinistas, so the worry on our end, which is so like fucking narcissistic, this is why I don't, I hate us, but the worry was that the Sandinistas were going to go on and spread the word, like I said, to other places and they did. They started to provide support for leftist insurgencies in El Salvador. So in the early 1980s,
the US started providing military and financial support to the opponents of the Sandinistas who were known as the Contras. So Reagan referred to the Contras as the moral equal of the founding fathers. That's a fucking guy. Like...
Pisha (25:06)
Did we Snopes check that? I just wanna make sure because I saw like.
Raven (25:09)
OOF
I saw it on many different sites. So I think Britannica, Wikipedia, PBS, like, yeah, I'm pretty sure they were correct.
Pisha (25:15)
Okay.
yeah, no, those are some notable sources. I just want to make sure, I just want to make sure because I want to say like, I saw something not nearly as credible saying like, the fact check on this. And I was like, but I feel like he said it. He really did say it. And I know I can tell you what he said about Mujahideen leaders, but we'll talk about that later. Yeah.
Raven (25:32)
Yeah.
Mm -hmm.
We did stand.
I can't wait. I can't wait. Yeah, I'll try and speed this up. I'm taking my time. I'm sorry. So in the meantime, while all of this is happening in Nicaragua, Iran and Iraq aren't quite getting along. And Soviet Russia, which who is Reagan's sworn enemy, was funding Iraq. So Iran and America became strange bedfellows. So, but there's a little problem.
Pisha (25:48)
No, you're good.
Raven (26:11)
Our favorite president peanut farmer, Jimmy Carter, had a little arms embargo going on with Iran because in 1979, a bunch of Iranian students took 52 American hostages through Hezbollah.
So, Carter's like, that's it, no more guns. And Reagan's like, same girl, while he was campaigning. And then he wasn't really like same girl at all when he was president.
Between 1981 and 1986, America facilitated the illegal sale of arms to Iran, which was subject to an arms embargo, as I mentioned.
Pisha (26:37)
good.
Raven (26:50)
So they hope to use these proceeds of the arms sales to fund the Contras. So that's why it's called the Iran -Contra affair, which makes sense. All right. So getting into the playas a little bit.
mentioned Mohammed Reza Pahlavi, who is the Shah. He was the former king of Iran who was like, I love America. And America was like,
Same girl, but really they weren't like same girl. So. Which is basically the equivalent of love to America. America really is like an abusive boyfriend. Like they're terrible. Anyway, Manuel Noriega is another major player in the Iranian contra affair. He is the Panamanian military dictator who is like, I love America.
Pisha (27:17)
They were like, you snooed our needs for now.
Raven (27:42)
And you guessed it, America was like same girl, but not really the same girl. So, mm hmm. There's a common denominator here. So anyway, Major General Abraham Tamir is the Israeli defense minister who had an oral, who like came out and said, like, we had this oral agreement to sell spare parts to Iran from America.
Pisha (27:48)
Play on both sides.
Raven (28:10)
and Alexander Haig, who I'll talk about in just a second, was like, shut up, dude. And he didn't. So.
Pisha (28:16)
I'm just loving, I just love this. This is a great telling of the Iran -Contra affair.
Raven (28:21)
I'm trying to make it like to relate to the youths. So...
Pisha (28:29)
The use, hey Gen Z if you're listening, how we doing fellow teenagers?
Raven (28:35)
pretty sure I'm using all millennial talk, so I don't think it's going to work. No. OK. And then there's Shimon Peres, who is the Israeli prime minister, and he's the guy who the US reached out to to make this all happen.
Pisha (28:37)
I know this is still not right, but it's fine. It's okay.
Raven (28:51)
David Kempsey and Michael LeDene
They were the Israeli diplomats who told America that Iranians were prepared to have Hezbollah release the US hostages who were in Lebanon in exchange for Israel shipping the US weapons to Iran. And then there is Manu Sher, I'm going to butcher this name, Gorbanofer? Gorbanofer? Go ahead.
Someone correct me.
Pisha (29:22)
That doesn't even look like... Yeah, I don't know what that is.
Raven (29:26)
Gore Bonifer, Gore something.
He was the intermediary between Israel and the United States for getting the weapons to Iran. So pause for a second. Israel plays a big part in this. And so like, I just want to like make that known now because, you know, we've talked a lot about like,
Israel isn't like, you know, a an ally and like in a strategic area and all that that's what this is talking about. That's what they're talking about. They're talking about some illegal and like and very morally repugnant bullshit is what they're talking about when they're talking about Israel being in a strategic like place for America. Like it's talking about America trying to like maintain its power. Like it's this is not anything good. Like anyway, so.
Then, Saddam Hussein, you may have heard of him, he had invested heavily in Iraq's military since its defeat against Iran in 1975 and he bought large amounts of weaponry from the Soviet Union and France. So that's why we hate Saddam. Anyway, so then there is Akbar Hoshimi Rafsanjani, who is Khamenei's
Ayatollah's successor or going to be successor
America believed that he had the power to order Hezbollah to free the US hostages and establish a relationship with him. And so they established this relationship with him by selling Iran arms and would ultimately place Iran back within the US sphere of influence. That was the whole goal here. On our side of things, so I've talked a lot about like who's over there on our side of things. There's Robert McFarland who like drove a whole.
lot of this. He was the head of National Security Council at the time. Alexander Haig, I talked about him before, also drove a lot of this, was a big decision maker in this. Oliver North, I mean, he has his name for that reason.
Pisha (31:31)
yeah, no, that was not a good guy. He was not a good guy.
Raven (31:33)
Yeah, that guy sucked. He was a bad guy. He was responsible for everything
diverted a portion of the proceeds from the Iranian weapon sales to fund the Contras personally. So Then there's John Poindexter who just has a great name, but he was also a big Oliver North fan and his successor And then there's William J Casey. He's also a CIA guy So like I said CIA is driving a lot of this because they're the ones who are training the insurgencies and these other
countries. So he plays a big role in that. Casper Weinberger, he's the one who side -eyed this whole thing. He told them from the beginning, he's like, this some, hmm, probably not, we probably shouldn't be doing this shit. And yeah, him and Secretary of State George Shultz, who also had big side -eyes. And then, you know, coming to the end of the Contra and when this all came out to the American public,
Pisha (32:17)
I don't know guys. Yeah. Good on him.
Raven (32:36)
John Tower, Edward Muskie, and Brent Snowcraft were the ones who actually investigated and wrote the Tower Report, who shed light on this shady business. So, you guys at home might be thinking like, all right, so what the fuck is this actually? So, this is an armed for hostages deal. That's straight up what this is. In 1985, while Iran and Iraq were at war,
Iran came to the United States and was like, hey, can we like low key buy some weapons for you guys? And Rick McFarland was the one who got that request from them. He went to go seek Reagan's approval in spite of the embargo that was in place because of our peanut farmer, our Lord and Savior peanut farmer. I do love me a Jimmy Carter. Like I'm not going to.
He is underrated. So in any case, he was a kind soul.
Pisha (33:34)
He was a kind soul. Like, you can't talk bad on him as a man, but he may not have been the strongest of leaders.
Raven (33:41)
No, you can't.
No, he did make some good decisions. He also made some bad ones, which I mean, I think we can say is fair for everyone in the world. So.
Pisha (33:55)
except for Reagan, where the truth is he mostly fucked up.
Raven (33:58)
Yeah, good point. I'm sorry. We are shitting on Reagan this entire month and I almost came off of that. So, in any case, McFarlane that the sales of the arms would not only improve US relations with Iran, but might in turn lead to improved relations with Lebanon. So like this is all kind of strategic, like trying to get better relations with the Middle East. But...
Pisha (34:01)
Yeah
That's right.
Raven (34:27)
Reagan had some other ideas about why he might want to go into this, and it really had to do with his inability to secure the release of seven American hostages who were being held by Iranian terrorists in Lebanon, as I mentioned
And so there was the seven, he was trying to release seven hostages and was unable to do so. And so he was thinking that this might be the way to make that happen. And that's been his whole justification behind
In early 1985, so Robert McFarland, who's the one who, like I said, was largely responsible for this, he started undertaking the sale of anti -tank and anti -aircraft missiles straight to Iran with the belief that that would secure the release of these hostages. Also, Russia played a big part of this.
He's also thinking strategically as far as like, you know, if we use Israel to get these to Iran, then Iraq will go down because the Soviet Union is the one who's funding Iraq. So that's the writing between the lines. You might be asking, but like, what about the embargo? So Congress passed the Boland Amendment in 1982 and again in 1984.
This was aimed at limiting US government assistance to the Contras in Nicaragua and prohibited further funding. So there's one, the arms embargo to Iran and two, this Boland Amendment, which is meant to stop the United States from funding the Contras because it's largely unpopular with the public at that point. And so the Iran -Contra affair is so...
scandalous because it defies both that embargo and the Boland
right, so Reagan found a loophole to both by using non -appropriated funds in order to accomplish both goals instead. So this is super subversive. It's like, you know, yeah, this is like there's a loophole there, but it's definitely against the spirit of what the laws were intended to
So Oliver North and his associates also raised private funds, like I said, this was he did it on his own accord, for the Contras and the transfer of arms and other materiel to the counter revolutionaries. And that was through an organization known as the Enterprise.
overseen by Air Force Major
Richard Secord. Aid for the Contras was also solicited from third party countries as well. So that laid the potential for quid pro quo.
quo type of deals from them. So it's like, this is all very like not great as far as like foreign policy and like super, like I said, subversive and not above ground on any level. So.
Pisha (37:35)
Well, and it doesn't look good on a global playing field. It's just it's not good optics.
Raven (37:41)
So you might be asking yourself, like,
let's get some context here. Like, why is Reagan involved in this? Like, what actually fucking happened, right? So what happened was that all of this was going down when Reagan was undergoing colon cancer treatments that were absolutely like terrible for him. So like, so he's going through a lot, like,
We'll give him that. He ultimately did invoke the 25th Amendment for about eight hours, a little under eight hours while he was receiving treatment. This is still not recognized by the White House, but it happened. While he was recovering, Robert McFarland, that little shady shit came to him and was
Israel contacted the NSA and they passed on confidential information, real hush -hush gossip that Rasavajjani was opposed to the Ayatollah's hardline anti -US policies. So he's seeing an opening through Rasavajjani, Raf's son, Johnny. That's the guy's name. So...
And so they're going to undergo this Iran -Contra deal with the idea that Ross Vanjani is going to help them out. Reagan, however, claims that he has no recollection of this conversation, which is convenient, sir. Yeah, with Reagan's blessing, McFarland then met with the Israeli intermediaries and he...
Pisha (39:10)
Very convenient.
Raven (39:21)
Reagan then claims that he allowed this because he believed that establishing the relationships between these strategically, like I said, located countries and preventing the Soviet Union from doing the same was beneficial, basically. So Reagan claims that the arms sales were to this like moderate faction of Iran. The report says else.
wise and says that they were directly to the Ayatollah. Also there were some handwritten notes that were taken by our guy Casper Weinberger who is the side eye guy and he indicates that Reagan was aware of the hostage transfers with Iran by Israel as well as the sales.
with they were they were to Iran if that makes sense. So he also yeah. yeah. He knew that's the point of it. He wrote that Reagan said that he could answer charges of illegality, but he couldn't answer charges that big strong President Reagan passed up a chance to free hostages. Motherfucker. Like he is he is like the fucking cowboy.
Pisha (40:22)
he knew where they were going.
Raven (40:46)
Fucking president, he's just acting like, yeah, guns a blazin', like he should've stayed a goddamn actor.
Pisha (40:55)
I know, and I read some really shady stuff about his involvement in the 1979 hostage situation that ultimately led to Jimmy Carter losing the election to him. And like just really shady shit. Like he's been involved, he's had his dirty little hands just under the covers where we can't see them doing creepy fucking things. Okay, anyways.
Raven (41:14)
What's up, it's just...
guy. Yeah. So yeah. So basically the point is that Casper Weinberger, our friend, revealed that like Reagan knew about all this shit. So alright. So you might be asking like, what the fuck happened to these guys then? Like what's the deal? After all of this went through through 1986, it was investigated by Congress and the
commission that I was talking about beforehand in our players part. they did not reveal that Reagan himself knew of the extent of the program, but it did end up with several of the people who were involved being indicted. That included our boy Casper got indicted as well.
So there were 11 indictments in total, most of which were either vacated on appeal or ended up being pardoned by our favorite next president, HW. So, yep.
Pisha (42:23)
He was something and it wasn't good and we don't like it. We'll follow up on that later friends. Don't worry.
Raven (42:28)
Mm -hmm.
It wasn't good!
Mm -hmm.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yep. So anyway, so yeah, so that's the gist of what went down with the Iran -Contra affair. Yeah, so I mean, again, like bleeding through the stuff that's going on today with Israel and Palestine and all of the other countries that are currently suffering through genocide that are country funded.
We're the bad guys, guys. I hate to break it to you. We are absolutely... Yeah. America is not the greatest country in the world. I hate to break it to you. I mean, like anybody who thinks that does not know the underbelly, which is what we've been talking about today. So anyway.
Pisha (43:08)
responsible. Yeah, we have we have accountability. So yeah, there's some accountability here and
Right, well, so it sounds like Reagan was already in a way funding some Islamic terrorists in Iran. However, I really wanted to focus on how Reagan's administration financed and aid Islamic terrorists in Afghanistan primarily. And so the policy,
Raven (43:33)
Mm -hmm.
We should have done this in like the year 2000, really. It's still relevant, it's fine.
Pisha (43:52)
I know, right? my God, so relevant then. But, yeah, and it's still relevant because you're gonna hear why this ended. I'm gonna tell you right off the bat. I'm gonna tell you what the policy was and then I'm gonna tell you the outcome. Like we're gonna do the six degrees of separation between Ronald Reagan and this policy. So the policy was to fund and quote unquote,
Raven (44:08)
Okay.
Pisha (44:20)
non -lethally aid Islamic anti -communist rebels to overthrow Soviet government in Afghanistan in the mid 1980s. The outcome, very briefly, and then we'll dig on deep into it, is that the Soviets left Afghanistan, the Soviet government was toppled, and the US kind of left the country to the Islamic fundamentalists to fight over. And then the Taliban was born.
and then 9 -11 happened. So basically Reagan did 9 -11. So I just, like logic says that the Taliban would not have existed without Reagan's aid. Therefore they couldn't have committed 9 -11 if Reagan never made them exist. So, lawyered, lawyered. I wrote that all down. I believe it very much.
Raven (45:06)
Yeah!
Logic. Mm -hmm.
Pisha (45:16)
And we'll talk even more about how specifically there was one very important guy involved. So first, a quick timeline of the first 20 years of a 40 -year war in Afghanistan. Not joking, it's been going on since 1979. And so the first.
Raven (45:40)
There you go.
Pisha (45:40)
Yeah, the first 20 years are relevant to us right now in that we're going to talk about Reagan's involvement. And if you want to see how we're doing over there in Afghanistan now, just read the news. I don't know what to say. It's not, we still don't really have it all handled over there. So, right. So in December,
Raven (46:00)
Man, we fucked that one real bad. Including up to Biden. I mean, I'm sorry. I hate to like... yeah. Yeah. I can't get the images of those Afghani people who are trying to get on the airplane out of my head. It's horrifying. But anyway, keep talking.
Pisha (46:05)
well, that's the point. Biden's still fucking it. Biden is still fucking it. Like, like it is still getting screwed up.
Yeah. Yeah. So, so it is a horrifying thing. It's displaced and killed thousands of people and millions, I don't know, lots of people over this 40 year time period. In December, 1979, the Soviet army invades Afghanistan. Thousands of Afghans flee to neighboring Pakistan during this time. And this is where the...
Raven (46:36)
Mm -hmm.
Pisha (46:48)
freedom fighters or the Mujahideen groups started forming and prepared for a anti -communist war against the Soviets. This was all being done from Pakistan. So in the 1980s, CIA's covert operation cyclone funnels weapons and money for an anti -communist war through Pakistani dictator Mohammed Zia -ul -Haq.
who calls on Muslim countries to send volunteers to fight in Afghanistan. Remember that fascist fanboy, Timothy McVeigh, and how he showed up to Waco? Do you wanna guess what fundamentalist fanboy showed up to this call? Osama Bin Laden! Yeah, I know. Small circles, so.
Raven (47:27)
I vaguely remember this.
boy. Let me guess.
It comes full circle. Okay.
Pisha (47:41)
Osama bin Laden was in fact one of these volunteers who came to Pakistan to join these Mujahideen freedom fighters. In 1983, Reagan meets with Mujahideen leaders calling them freedom fighters at the White House and also calling them founding fathers, much like founding fathers. So not a great judge of character, that Reagan guy. In September,
Raven (48:06)
Mm -mm. Is everybody a founding father? Like, what the fuck?
Pisha (48:10)
Yeah, everyone, everyone is. So in September 1986, the US provides the Mujahideen with Stinger missiles, which turns the course of the war and Soviets begin negotiating withdrawal. In February 1989, the Soviets' 10 -year occupation of Afghanistan ends. And from 1992 to 1996, there was this weird power sharing amongst the Mujahideen leaders that I was
kind of alluding to about how the America just kind of stepped back and they weren't like, hey, let's put in some sort of democratic voting system. Let's do something to create political power. They didn't do anything. They just left all these people there with a destroyed country and with all these warring factions to figure it out, figure out a government that works for you guys. So honestly, the reason why they didn't have democracy and we invaded them later in time was because of us. We never did anything to.
Raven (49:07)
Mm -hmm.
Pisha (49:09)
institute those kind of democratic, you know, networks and systems that would have been useful in developing a government that would be useful to us. So we missed that opportunity. And in 1996, the power sharing falls apart in Kabul amongst these leaders. Nearly 50 ,000 people are killed during this period of time. In 1994,
the Taliban emerge in the southern region of Kandahar and set up rule adhering to strict interpretation of Islam. In 1996, the Taliban captured Kabul and hung the opposition leaders of all the other Mujahideen groups. And then from 1996 to 2001, Taliban rule with a heavy hand under Mullah Mohammed Omar. And the Taliban,
Thereby empowered by Reagan does 9 -11 in 2001 like I I mean they did it they totally did it and I Arguably they wouldn't have existed Osama bin Laden 100 % this was his Golden ticket to power he saw an opportunity to come in as a volunteer freedom fighter and then used his own sick narcissistic sociopath psychopathic
Raven (50:11)
balls.
Mm -hmm.
Pisha (50:34)
personality to create a cult almost of jihadists. So that's how I feel about that. We are not doing great in Afghanistan still. We have tried to withdraw troops. I did not go into the full 40 years up to now because it's so complex. I encourage everyone to look at it. I just wanted to make the point that the Taliban,
Raven (50:41)
Right.
Pisha (51:02)
was a 100 % result of Reagan. So, so.
Raven (51:06)
Turns out that if you're going to fund a bunch of terrorist groups around the world who you think are for you, they might eventually turn against you. Turns out. Right. Exactly.
Pisha (51:17)
Yeah, and they might have good reason to do that in the first place when they're accepting the arms from you. So I've been talking about the mujahideen. So the mujahidu. Sorry, I just wanted to say that. I just really wanted to. But anyways, so the mujahideen is a plural form of mujahid. Mujahid? Sure, okay. Yeah, yeah.
Raven (51:28)
No, I loved it. I loved it.
Okay, yeah, I get it. Totally. I get it. Yeah. Say no more.
Pisha (51:44)
Right, an Arabic term that broadly refers to people who engage in jihad, which is a struggle or striving for justice, right conduct, godly rule, et cetera. It's interpreted in jurisprudence of Islam as the fight on the behalf of God, religion, or the community. So in its post -classical meaning, jihad refers to an act that is spiritually comparable.
in reward to promoting Islam during the early 1600s, 1600s, 600s, even earlier. These acts could be as simple as sharing a considerable amount of your wealth to poor people. So that was the simple jihad back in the day. It wasn't all this other shit.
Raven (52:27)
Yeah, like...
Well, yeah, but I mean, jihad is like such a broad term, right? Like what you're saying is that it's like, it could be, you know, something so small, but it's like, it's a religious expression, right? Like, so that extends, like, if you become a freedom fighter or a terrorist or anything like that, it can extend to what they believe is a religious expression, which is suicide bombing, et cetera. So, right.
Pisha (52:34)
Right.
Right.
Exactly. Well, and kind of like the term Mujahideen, it's this very broad term to people who are serving Islam. And it doesn't necessarily mean freedom fighter. Like, you know what I mean? Like that's what they interpreted into in order to justify their horribly violent means. And so, you know, widespread use of the word in English, at least of Mujahideen,
began with reference to the guerrilla type militant groups led by the Islamist Afghan fighters in the Soviet Afghan war. This term now extends to basically any other jihadist group. So we've got very broad terms that have somehow been bastardized into even broader terms for bad people, like in bad things. Like it's not really what these people are and what...
it means to be Islam, you know, a participant in Islam. So I just, it's very, I just want to make that clear. It's very much bastardized the interpretation. It's not a true interpretation of Islam when we're talking about these fundamentalists. And so, yeah, so that's the Mujahideen. And now, you know, let's just talk briefly about what in fact Reagan and the US did.
Raven (54:08)
right.
Pisha (54:21)
to.
Raven (54:24)
Fuck things up!
Pisha (54:24)
fuck things up and basically empower the Taliban. So what they did was there was this thing called Operation Cyclone. I mentioned it briefly in the timeline and let's go back to it. So Operation Cyclone was a strategy to provide a broad mix of weapons, tactics and logistics along with training programs like those ones that we heard about in the Iran -Contra affair.
And this was to enhance the Afghan rebels ability to fright guerrilla war against the Soviets. Like that, it all seems on paper good. The US would then deliver thousands of tons of weapons worth several billions in US dollars to the Mujahideen.
funding officially began with 695 ,000 in the mid 1979 time. And for those keeping track of time, that yes, that's during Carter's era. And yeah, it's true. Carter did initiate the funding of the Mujahideen for this purpose. But let's talk about how it changed when Reagan took the presidency. So,
The funding started, like I said, at $695 ,000 in mid -1979. It was increased to 20 to $30 million per year when Reagan took office. And then it rose to $630 million in 1987 until 1989. So under, yeah, under Reagan, this cost taxpayers approximately $3 billion. And in total,
Raven (55:54)
Jesus Christ.
Hmm.
But...
Pisha (56:10)
between the US, the Saudis, and the Chinese aid to the Mujahideen is valued between six and $12 billion. So, you know, I'm just pointing out that listen to the other two groups who are helping us aid these people, Saudi and Chinese. Like, great.
Raven (56:30)
Great. Excellent.
Pisha (56:32)
And there will be some who are like, hey, the British did this too. And yeah, they did, but they're useless. And also, fuck them, those colonizing bastards. Okay.
Raven (56:37)
Yeah, fuck Britain too though, like honestly. Yeah, seriously, we learned everything we got from Britain, so like, so they're not off the hook.
Pisha (56:45)
You know what? I'm just mad about everything. I'm mad about all these people and no one should have been funding this stuff. And in fact, what makes this so controversial is the choice in who they funded.
Okay, so the CIA program leaned heavily towards supporting militant Islamic groups, including groups with jihadist ties favored by the Pakistani dictator. And so the reason why that guy is relevant was all the money and all the weapons to these rebels were getting funneled through the Pakistani dictator. The Pakistani dictator,
was kind of harboring all of these refugees and these volunteer freedom fighters from all over these Muslim countries. And they've all gathered here in Pakistan. This is where they're getting their training. This is where they're preparing to fight. And so the dictator is deciding which Mujahideen leaders get money and how much money and how much resources. So he's.
the guy, he's the gatekeeper to all the funding. And so while it's going to him, it's being funneled through him through these groups. And he favored the more fundamentalist, militant Islamic groups.
than other less ideological Afghan resistance groups that had also been fighting.
the Soviet government long before the Soviets invaded. So there were actually many groups that were fighting the Soviet government before the invasion of the Soviet army even began. These were less religiously tied groups. These were groups that were just more concerned with toppling the government and putting in a government that was more representative of the region. And so,
This dictator had the opportunity to give these people money as well, these less ideological groups, less jihadists, but he chose not to. Of the seven Mujahideen groups supported by the Pakistani government, four of them espouse fundamental Islamic beliefs, and these groups also received the most funding and resources by far. So,
this guy was playing favorites with the Mujahideen freedom fighters. And then ultimately what happened, just glossing over it so briefly is when Kabul fell and it was left to the Mujahideen to kind of power share and decide what's going on, there were two groups that kind of formed. It was the Taliban and this Northern Alliance. And
I don't know. I guess the point is that we again had an opportunity to not meddle. And then we had an opportunity to meddle. And we did both of those very wrong. In this case, we could have like when when Kabul fell and the the power sharing started to fall apart between the Mujahideen, if the US were responsible at that time, they would have come in and been like, no, no, no, no.
We, this power sharing thing clearly isn't working. Can you create political parties and maybe here's how we do democracy. What we did years later after we invaded them because, wait, no, we invaded Iraq first. We invaded Iraq first because we thought Iraq did, yeah, because we thought Iraq did 9 -11. But we all know now after listening to this episode, that Reagan.
Raven (1:00:19)
Right. Conveniently.
So we didn't actually believe that. That's right. also that. Also, also it was Reagan. Right, right.
Pisha (1:00:30)
That Reagan did 9 -11. No, Reagan did it. It was Reagan. Right. So, yeah, there's a lot of controversy regarding the funding of these groups, obviously. There's some people who believe, like me, that the Taliban would not have existed and had the feat to gain any sort of foothold in that country if it weren't for us.
And I mean, it's arguable. There was, as far as I know, there was no direct CIA aid and assistance given to Osama bin Laden directly. Him and his groups, there's been a lot of controversy as to whether or not the CIA did fund Osama directly. But I just feel like that would have taken a massive cover up to hide.
Raven (1:00:59)
It's true.
Pisha (1:01:25)
I mean, you know what I mean? Like I can believe that we funneled stuff through Saudi. yeah, the CIA does it all. Like, I mean, but I don't know. I just, I don't know. It was just so fucked up. And if they, if it makes them feel better by saying, Hey, we didn't like directly help the guy who did 9 -11. We just gave him all the resources to take power and do 9 -11.
Raven (1:01:27)
Listen, it is the CIA.
Mm -hmm.
I'm...
Pisha (1:01:55)
fine. If that helps you sleep at night, right? Yeah, but we're clearly responsible. And so, I mean, it's, I don't know what the answer is with foreign policy, as we pointed out, like we are the average American who don't really know much. Yeah. And so, but I don't know what the right answer is. I have a feeling it doesn't involve covertly funding and assisting.
Raven (1:01:55)
Right, so we're not responsible. Right.
No, nothing. Yeah.
Pisha (1:02:24)
rebel groups, like especially religiously affiliated rebel groups. Like if you want to fight like communism, fine. But to add the Islamic element to it, it just it turned it turned the Afghan war into this really bloody religious spiral. And so like you said, they're going through a period of phase in religion that's taking them back. And so.
Raven (1:02:45)
Mm -hmm.
Pisha (1:02:52)
I don't know. I just feel so bad for them because it reminds me of what Europe did to Africa and how, you know, they just went in and colonized and just drew boundaries arbitrarily, separating families, separating tribes, putting warring tribes together in the same country. And then they were just like, okay, bye. And then Rwanda happens. Like, I mean,
Raven (1:02:56)
Yeah
yeah, colonization man.
Pisha (1:03:18)
It's our fault. Like, you have to dig deeper in the history to understand why things are happening. And it's not just happening. Right. Right.
Raven (1:03:26)
Yeah, and why everything is literally our fault. Like literally everything is our fault. Like what's happening in Congo and Sudan and Palestine. Everything is our fault. Yeah.
Pisha (1:03:33)
Right, and taking Rwanda as an example, you had two groups that were, you had the Tutsis and the Hutus who were arbitrarily separated by who was light -skinned and who was dark -skinned by the Belgian colonizers. And then they were just like, right, that didn't exist before then. And then the Belgians were just like, bye. And they just left and they knew nothing but to hate each other. And so,
Raven (1:03:39)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Right. Fuck
Right!
Pisha (1:04:01)
absolutely a result of European colonization and meddling. And here's another terrible result for these countries in particular. Like they have a right to self -determination and no one gets to tell them what their journey is. If they want to experiment with communism, go for it. If you want to experience with socialism, great. Find something that works for your country economically. But.
Raven (1:04:04)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, we don't have any business like getting involved with anybody else's fucking government. Like we fucked over literally the entire world at this point. Like, I mean...
Pisha (1:04:31)
Right!
And we couldn't possibly help them better than they could help themselves. You know what I mean? Like, all we could do is more harm by going in and being like, this is how we done it. Exactly. Exactly. So...
Raven (1:04:40)
No. We've only done more harm. We've only done more harm, like, in every regard. Like, yeah, everywhere. So, I'm sorry. I know. I, it's, it's really hard because it's like we live here and, and honestly, you know, like we are both part of the justice system. And so,
Pisha (1:04:53)
I know, we got so mad this episode.
Raven (1:05:07)
Like there is a part of me that, you know, that loves being American because I have the ability to do all this. I mean, like, you know, I just think that it's really important that the population like learns exactly like what the government is doing. And like, yeah.
Pisha (1:05:27)
Well, and two things can be true at the same time. You can be grateful to your country and you can be critical of its government. Those two things can be absolutely true at the same time. It doesn't make you less patriotic. It doesn't, you know what I mean? Like being critical of your government and being skeptical of its practices and questioning authority, like that's just being a good human. So yeah.
Raven (1:05:32)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Yeah.
It's important. It's really important to not like go hook line and sinker with whatever your government is telling you. So yeah.
Pisha (1:06:00)
Yep, exactly. Exactly. So, I mean, those were such huge topics. I'm really glad that we tried to narrow down Reagan's foreign policy. But I think we did it. We did it. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And so if you're interested in seeing how we're doing in Afghanistan now, just read the news, you know, go out.
Raven (1:06:14)
We did, we did. We covered the two big ones, which is important.
Pisha (1:06:29)
Inform your own opinions guys.
Raven (1:06:31)
Maybe listen to like Al Jazeera or any other foreign like just just Give it a shot. Yeah, BBC world is a good one as well You know just saying Just saying
Pisha (1:06:33)
Yeah. BBC World is my favorite.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, so I mean, we're not here to do all the work for you, but we will do some of the heavy lifting. So we hope we've piqued your interest and shown you how Reagan did 9 -11 and also how he did all that other shady shit in the Iran -Contra affair, which we looked up because...
In the last episode, we didn't know what it was called. We were calling it like a debacle or a scandal or debauchery. I don't know. It was all kinds of stuff, but it was an affair or scandal. Those are the two I've seen used just to make it clear for all those keeping track out there. Yeah, definitely. So next week we are going to go, we're going to wrap up the six degrees of Ronnie reg and.
Raven (1:07:21)
Being official.
Pisha (1:07:31)
We're gonna do that by looking at domestic policies. We started the month with economic policy, we moved into foreign policy, and we're gonna end with domestic policy, and this is gonna be primarily like war on drugs, war on crime, stuff like this. We'll talk more. So tune in for that next week. We also have lots of exciting stuff coming up.
Raven (1:07:46)
Yeah.
my gosh, so much.
Pisha (1:07:53)
Yeah, with the True Crime and Paranormal podcast festival. We've been calling it a convention, everyone. We want to clear that up. It's actually a festival. But either way, we hope to see everyone there. It's in Denver. Denver is a great place. Yes. With our, that's right, with our promo code, dejure, D -E space J -U -R -E.
Raven (1:08:08)
Get 15 % off with our promo code, De Jure.
Pisha (1:08:20)
15 % off. And plus, it's pretty affordable, I think, to begin with. So check that.
Raven (1:08:21)
Yeah.
There's a lot of really cool podcasts like going there. So it's definitely worth it if you're in the area or want to be. And you want to come say hi to us. Like we would love to see you. So.
Pisha (1:08:35)
Yeah, please do. We have some cool free gimmies, including this bracelet that says deranger on it. And it has like little first class emblems. So, you know, check out our Patreon. Eventually we're going to have this type of merch on there. We've got our website up. A lot of really exciting stuff. Also for. Yes.
Raven (1:08:40)
Eee, yeah!
You
Yeah, just real quick on the Patreon. We are going to be doing a newsletter and we're going to be providing some bloopers and extra content for anyone who wants that. That's going to be available to you. It's five bucks a month. We've been putting a lot of money into this. And so, you know, we're trying to give you guys good content. We want to give you a little bit extra. If you want a little bit extra, five bucks a month. That's what it is. There you go.
Pisha (1:09:26)
Well, and it helps us with our upcoming series, which we are doing our own like full length investigation into. And that's not cheap, everybody. Like we, what I'm talking about is swept under the disappearance of Eric Brazil. And, and we are still very much in the middle of that case and investigating that.
We have changed our plans. We're going to be going up there in August and we're going to be investigating. So please like think about subscribing just as a donation. Anything will help us maybe find Eric. So that's, that's our goal. And also to use to, compense us for all of the really pricey equipment that podcasting requires. So, so yeah.
Raven (1:10:20)
Turns out this is not a cheap hobby. No.
Pisha (1:10:21)
Not cheap. You know, it doesn't surprise me. Like when I was a little girl, my mom's like, what's what's what do you want to do? What's your hobby? And I was like horses. And she's like, you couldn't have picked anything cheaper at all. And I was like, no horses. So this is on brand for me. And it's fine, though, because I'm loving this. This has been fun. It's been good connecting with people and then hopefully getting some answers for Eric, too. So there's a lot of things going on with that.
In the meantime, like, listen, subscribe, follow us on the socials and get the word out to all your friends and family. Like we want more than just our moms to listen. But thanks moms, we love you. We love you so much. But yeah, so check us out on socials. We're trying to get more active with that as well. So hit us up.
Raven (1:11:07)
We love you, mom. Yeah, the best.
Yeah, we've got a lot of new stuff going on on the socials. Obviously we have a new logo, all kinds of new stuff. So, you know, we're doing stuff. We're making some moves.
Pisha (1:11:25)
Yeah. Check it out. Go check it out. We're doing stuff. We're making some money moves. We're moving on up. So that's it from us. That is it. And until next time, stay out of law school and the infirmaries.
Raven Deranger (1:11:48)
Remember to like and subscribe to Deranged DeJure on your favorite podcast platform and follow at deranged.dejure on all the major social media. Contact us by email at deranged.dejure at gmail.com. This has been a Raven Kink production.