The Good Wife: Season 6, Episode 10 - The Trial

The Good Wife Season 6 Episode 10, "The Trial," finally puts Cary Agos in front of a jury, and Judge Cuesta has Neil Diamond tickets to pick up by 5:30, so nobody's getting a slow, careful trial. Diane fights the wiretap evidence, Geneva Pine is distracted by a secret of her own, and a Hamilton reunion walks right into the courtroom. Kalinda takes the stand, a juror with auditory processing disorder changes the case, and Kalinda's desperate gamble with Lemond Bishop has consequences no one sees coming. Meanwhile, Alicia Florrick's state's attorney campaign hits a very strange speed bump: a "joke" note to Grace's teacher that is not landing as a joke. Plus, big news: The Good Pod is covering Cupertino!

00:00 – Welcome, plus our big Cupertino announcement
08:45 – Cary's trial begins and Judge Cuesta has a concert to catch
19:45 – Geneva's secret and a surprise Hamilton reunion
28:30 – Kalinda takes the stand and one juror can't quite hear
36:30 – Kalinda threatens Bishop, and Bishop answers
49:00 – Alicia's knife note turns into a campaign crisis

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Creators and Guests

Host

Jason Reed

I’m a simple guy with simple interests. Pop Culture, Tv, Movies, Comics. Constantly chasing that nostalgia dragon. Podcaster talking Married At First Sight on A Perfect Match and The Good Wife verse on The Good Pod.

Host

Marissa Garza

MTv never told me the Real World would be like this // podcaster, consultant, and tv watcher

What is The Good Pod?

Rewatching The Good Wife? Start anywhere. We've recapped every episode in order since the pilot — 166 and counting.

Jason Reed and Marissa Garza work through the entire Robert and Michelle King universe: The Good Wife, Elsbeth, and The Good Fight. One episode at a time, in order, no skipping. The cases, the firm implosions, the Alicia and Diane of it all — plus the details you missed the first time and the ones you only catch on a rewatch.

Alicia Florrick, Diane Lockhart, Kalinda Sharma, Eli Gold, Will Gardner, Elsbeth Tascioni. If you have opinions about any of them, you're in the right place.

New episodes every Monday. Elsbeth recaps every week the show is airing.

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Jason: Welcome to The Good Pod.

Today we're covering "The Good
Wife," Season 6, Episode 10, "The

Trial." I am one of your hosts,
Christ Ember Probaca, and, uh, with

me as always, Rick Abupur Gartarza

Marissa: Oh, no.

Am I good?

Jason: happened?

What, what?

Marissa: What?

What?

Jason: Yeah, you heard it.

You heard what I

Marissa: I couldn't…
No, I couldn't hear.

I couldn't understand

Jason: What?

You heard me.

I said, "Welcome to the Good Pod.
My name is Armando Penbas from

Numbuga, and my co-host, Berbraca
Berberica." What, what's the problem?

Marissa: Whoa, whoa.

I think I'm having some sort of like
auditory processing situation happening.

I don't, I don't know.

Listeners, you can let me know.

I mean, I think it's,
it's more common than we

Jason: Yeah, I mean, right in.

I mean, I, I feel like I said
everything that, well, that

I need, uh, do, do, did, did.

Right?

All good

Marissa: Sure.

Jason: exactly.

Okay.

Marissa: Yeah.

Anyway, Jason, you good?

Jason: I'm good.

I'm good, Marissa.

Marissa: Good

Jason: Um, uh, you good, Marissa?

Marissa: I'm okay.

I'm good.

I'm

Jason: Making sure I'm-- 'cause you, you
look at me weird as if something's wrong.

I think, I think you're okay.

Marissa: no, we're good.

We're good.

Just don't turn your back

Jason: yeah, yeah, just that's the point.

You gotta stay in context.

Stay, stay, stay what
I'm, what I'm with, okay?

Uh, so yeah, here we are,
Season, Season 6, Episode 10.

Uh, it's time for the big, the big trial,
the trial everyone's been waiting for,

the trial of the century, some may say.

Marissa: Mm-hmm.

Jason: Kerry Agos's, uh, you know,
trial to see if he's gonna go

to prison, go to jail, whatever.

Uh, we're here finally.

Or it seems like, sound- sounds like
we're finally starting to land the plane

of at least one of our subplots, uh,
that has been kind of dominating this

season of Kerry and this, uh, drug trial.

Uh,

Marissa: getting closer, at least.

Fingers crossed.

We are in episode 10 of the season,

Jason: Yeah, we're about halfway
done for the season and it's like,

Marissa: we're not gonna drag this
out for another 10, 10 episodes

Jason: Can we finally
get some resolution here?

But before we dive too deep into
the trial of the century, uh, we

want to remind you of some free and
easy ways you can help this podcast.

You can do that by going to, uh, by
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Uh, that really helps us get into the
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There are several, many ways to subscribe
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It really helps us, uh, in many ways.

Uh, if you want to chat with us about
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You can always-- You can also follow
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Uh, we'd appreciate more follows
over there to see what we are up to

Marissa: also, like, if you wanna be
in with the in crowd, like, Carrie

Preston follows us on Threads.

So, like, if you wanna be, like,
one degree away from Elsbeth like

we are, like, just follow us.

Just join us up there

Jason: All the best people are
doing it, so why don't, why

don't you join in on the club?

Um, uh, Marissa, we have, we
have s- a couple different,

uh, announcements to make about

Marissa: We do

Jason: about what's going on over here
at "The Good Pod." We, we, we are coming

up on an interesting season for "The Good
Pod" where we are, we are in our, our busy

time because "Elsbeth" is coming back.

Uh, we also, if you're not familiar with
us, uh, we do do "The Gilded Pod" as well

because "The Gilded Age" is coming back
in the beginning of November, so we'll

be covering that as well, and we're also,
uh, venturing into new territory as well.

As some of you may know, uh, the Kings
who, uh, you know, came up with this great

universe of "The Good Pod," "Elsbeth,"
"The Good-- I mean, sorry, not "The Good

Pod," "The Good," "The Good Wife," "The
Good Fight," "Elsbeth," they are coming

out with a new show called "Cupertino."

It is yet another kind
of legal, uh, dramedy.

I don't know if you'd
call it that or whatever.

It's a legal procedural as
well kind of sort of show.

Uh, it's starring, uh, Lamond Bishop
himself, Mike Colter, so he's, uh, you

know, he, he-- You know, Marissa, the
thing is we, our, the way that our, our

universe works, we seem to really just
hit on things at the right times because

Lamond Bishop, Lamond Bishop is all over
this season of the, of "The Good Wife,"

and, uh, just so happens that in this
season, uh, we are now gonna have Mike

Colter, uh, in a totally new character.

He's gonna be a lawyer himself
in the "Cupertino" show.

So Marissa and I have decided to
kind of launch a trial balloon

and to cover "Cupertino," um, with
the other shows that we cover.

Now, whether we keep covering "Cupertino"
or not is up to you guys, the listeners

and the viewers, because, you know,
we do a lot of stuff, you know?

I-in, in, you know, in addition
to our podcasting stuff, we're

both doing different things.

Uh, I'm doing like 1,000
bajillion shows at this point.

"Love Is Blind" is coming back,
so I'll be doing that as well,

Marissa: my, oh my

goodness

Jason: addition to my day job.

So we wanna make sure that this is a
worthwhile endeavor, and, uh, we'll

keep doing it as long as people
are watching and/or listening.

If we do it and no one watches and/or
listens, we'll probably just be like,

"Yeah, I, I think we're good on the
'Cupertino.' We'll, we'll leave it

there." So, but, but if you do enjoy
the content and you do respond to it

and you do interact with it, we will
keep it going for, uh, the whole season.

Um, so it really depends
on you guys out there.

Marissa: Yeah, and we're,
I, I will speak for myself.

I'm kind of excited about this because
it's in the land of technology, and as

we know, um, from "The Good Wife" and
I know, and you know from watching,

but we have yet to discuss "The Good
Fight," um, when the Kings really kind

of focus on a topic, we get a lot of
really good information about, like,

how things work in our own real world.

So I'm looking forward to kind of diving
into this territory with the Kings.

Um, and also, you know, it's 12 episodes.

It's not gonna be-- It's not like
Elsbeth is gonna be th- 20 episodes,

so we're gonna be with her for the
long haul all the way through May.

But this is gonna take us maybe, I don't
know, till Christmas or a little beyond.

Um, so we'd love to, for you to let
us know if you're interested in that.

I know w- we, we would probably
watch anyway, so I think part

of it is, like, if we were gonna
watch it, let-let's talk about it.

It may not be as in-depth as some
of our other coverage, but we're

gonna give it a go and see, see
what we got, see what happens.

Jason: for sure, for sure.

Uh, so we hope you guys will, uh, like
what we're gonna be presenting to you.

Uh, it'll be interesting as well
because, you know, the Kings, they,

uh, you know, they are covering Elsbeth
of course, but it's, it, it's gonna

be interesting to see them back into
the courtroom of it all after, after

some time away since The Good Fight.

Um, so we'll, we'll-- It'll be interesting
to see how their, how the style has

changed, how, how other things have
changed, and kind of looking at Mike

Colter as a different character now,
as you've seen him as Lamont Bishop.

I know him from, as Luke Cage

Marissa: Yeah.

Yeah

Jason: So, uh, to see him in a different
avenue, and those that have watched

the other King show, uh, Evil, he
was a big part of that show as well.

So this'll be yet another, uh,
arrow in his quiver to see like

how, how this character is.

So I, I'm interested to see it as well.

Um, yeah, that's a, that's our
little announcement, uh, for now.

Um, I think even by the time you're
listening or watching this, 'cause we are

kind of re-recording ahead, it-- Cupertina
might already be out, so you might

have already listened to our coverage

Marissa: will drop right the,
the week of the premiere, 'cause

the premiere is October 8th.

So, um, right after Elsbeth,
a little double whammy there.

Um, so

Jason: Cupertino episode one
might be, might be right in your

feed as you're listening to this.

So, uh, so go check it out

Marissa: Yeah, we should be there.

Um, but yeah, looking forward to it.

Uh, but before we get to Silicon Valley,
oh man, it's like a totally different…

It's gonna be so bright.

Like, I'm just like, there's
gonna be so much sun.

We don't really have that much
sun here on The Good Wave.

Jason: Yeah.

And, and listen, from what, uh, from
the trailers, uh, it seems that, uh,

Renee Elise Goldberry, uh, AKA Eva Pine,
is going to be showing up on this show

Marissa: Well, we're gonna have to see
because we know that, like, Oman Bishop

did not become a lawyer at Silicon Valley.

Jason: Well, no, no, it's
not, it's not gonna be Geneva.

It's

Marissa: thing.

But however, it could be.

It could be.

It

Jason: That'd be wild.

That'd be wild, right?

I mean, I just-

Marissa: we don't know.

We don't know.

We'll have to see because Geneva is
very prominent in this episode, so

obviously, as we know, everything
revolves around us, so it could happen.

It could happen.

Should we get into it, Jason?

Should we get into this, this, uh,
10th episode of the sixth season?

Uh, we were talking a little bit
before the pod how we miss kind

of having cases with closure and,

Jason: of one-off, one-off cases.

We've been following this
one case for so long.

It's like I miss the days where
we had these, you know, uh,

case of the week, uh, formats.

Uh, they, they gave us a little taste
of it in the other, in the other episode

with Alicia doing the whole, you know,
essay, uh, battle with Owen's student.

Um, but you know, we- we- we've
been following this for a long

time, so it looks like finally
we're starting to kinda get maybe

s- a start of some resolution here.

Marissa: We shall see because the day in
court for Kerry has arrived, and we see

that Judge Cuesta is assigned to the case.

We get to see a little bit
more of Judge Cuesta's, like,

personality throughout this episode.

It's funny.

He, he's, like, really focused
on getting Neil Diamond tickets

to celebrate with his wife.

That's a big thing, and he really
loves carrot muffins in the morning.

These were two big things that we,
we got to learn right off the bat

Jason: I was happy to see Questa
again because we haven't seen

Questa for quite a long time.

I think the last time we saw Questa
was when, uh, Lockhart Gardner was

representing him, um, in his case.

I think it was like kind of just
questioning how he did things.

Uh, I forgot what exactly
what the case was.

So I think he, he was accused of
covering something up or something.

Uh, it was a big deal and I thought,
I thought after they won him his case,

it was gonna be kind of like a, well,
I guess, uh, they could never go in

front of Questa again because ob-
obviously he would have some sort of

bias towards them because he, he- they
helped him get like, you know, get

off of a, of a, of some sort of rap.

I was like, no, I guess
that doesn't exist.

I don't know if that exists in real
life, if it's just kind of like…

Marissa: I mean, it kind of

Jason: It really should,
you would think, right?

But, uh, I was kind of surprised
that we had Questa back here

Marissa: But, but I mean, we
also now live in a world where

personal lawyers are attorney
generals, so I-- attorneys general.

So I don't really know
what's going on there.

But Geneva, of course,
is the ASA on this case.

Jason: Looking so fine

Marissa: Ow.

Oof.

Still hard.

It was-- I was like, I didn't… I
thought it would be Finn, you know?

Because Finn had been carry-
doing all the stuff up to there.

But Geneva going against Carrie
for one final battle, I guess, in

Jason: Finn's not with the state
sup- state attorney's department

Marissa: Oh yeah, that's right, he left.

Yeah, that's right.

Never mind.

Yeah, never mind.

Never mind.

Never mind.

So of course it's Geneva.

Anyway, still hurts.

Still kinda weird.

But it does set us up for this thing.

Um, she is a little
preoccupied in the courtroom.

She's on the phone.

Alicia is there like being
her like, "I am Alicia.

I am the, the governor's wife.

I am here." And Questa's like, "You
can leave." Like, "We don't need you."

Jason: And Quest is like, "I don't
like your aura." And Alicia's

like, "But my aura is why I'm here.

Like, I'm the, I am the
shining light, right?

I'm here to support my friend Carrie, and
I am the governor's wife, so you know,

I'm, I'm here being cute and pretty."
And Quest is like, "No, get out of here.

We don't want that.

And, uh, and also, uh, this is
a Carrie story and Kalinda's

gonna be prominently involved, so

Marissa: So we can't have

Jason: can't have you here." It, it's,
it's so baffling to me of just how,

how much they have to wriggle and
squirm to make sure that we know that

Alicia can't be in this, in this room

Marissa: It is so baffling to me that I
didn't pick up on it the first time we

were watching this TV show because it is
blatant watching it going back for sure.

Uh, Judge Cuesta is really like, "Okay,
this man wants to get to this concert.

He does not wanna delay anything."
So he's like, "Let's see if we can

strike a deal, like before the case,
before we start pulling voir dire,

before we start doing any of that.

Let's talk about it and see what
we can do." So he pulls everyone

to, into chambers and, um,

Jason: Wow.

Man, Quesa, Quesa throws around some
like, some real humdingers here.

He's like, "I don't wanna
be here with any of you.

Like, so let's, uh, let's get this done.

Uh, Carrie, you're gonna need to take
this plea 'cause I done seen everything,

and you, and you're guilty, my guy.

You're, you're, you're,
you're outta here."

So yeah

Marissa: and I love how Diane is
l- there saying like, "You should

recuse, recuse yourself." And he's
like, "Uh, Judy, did you type that?

Because if Judy didn't type it, it
didn't happen." Judy the stenographer.

And I was like, whoa, holy corruptness.

Like, what is happening?

Uh, and Cary is very like,
"I did nothing wrong.

They're railroading
me," all of this stuff.

But he was offered-- The offer,
the first offer was 10 years,

and s- he's not gonna take that.

It does get decided that the
wire evidence will be allowed

in even though it is hearsay.

He is going to allow it.

Again, he says he's not gonna
take the plea, and he was

like, "What about six years?

That's only three years in prison."
Alicia's like, "No, you shouldn't

do that." Um, and later there's
a conversation between Diane

and I think, and Cary, and she
says, "You know what Will said?

Juries are jump balls, so you really
wanna take the safe bet here."

Jason: Yeah

Marissa: they ask Alicia to say like,
"Yo, can you find out if like three

years is like the, the bottom line here?"

Jason: They're like, "Hey, hey,
talk to your boyfriend, Finn,

Marissa: yeah, exactly.

Jason: see if this is for real."

Marissa: And he's like, "I can't
do that. It's unethical for me."

Jason: My question is why, like,
and this is really gonna explain,

like why does Alicia have to talk?

Like, I guess it was to ask
like, is three years like the

bottom line that they'll do?

Like is that, is that it?

Or can we push her for like a year?

Like i- is that what it is?

I, I don't know, like I, I guess Finn
would have some sort of inside knowledge.

Uh, but I was like, okay, what is
the point of this other than to get

Alicia and Finn in another scene?

Marissa: That's it.

Nope, that's it.

That's all it is.

Meanwhile, Akwesa is still on the
line trying to get these tickets.

Do you remember this process, Jason?

Do you remember trying to get
tickets before the internet?

Jason: Oh, here's the

Marissa: you… I mean, we
still have the internet.

Like, we still have it, but, like,
this man, like, had to call a phone

number and then go to a physical
location at 5:30 to pick up his tickets.

Jason: I'm not someone that-- I'm
not really someone that's ever

been, like, a concert or show goer.

Um, the closest thing I can think of
this is, like, going to the movies

and actually getting movie tickets.

And,

Marissa: Yes, exactly

Jason: that used to go to, uh, midnight
showings of Marvel movies and had to,

like, stand, like, in a line outside
of the theater an hour beforehand

to make sure that I got a, uh, you
know, middle of the auditorium middle

seat, um, like, you know, it, it's,
it, that rings to me what this is.

For him to be like-- For him to call this,
this line for tickets and be like, "Hey,

I need tickets," and for him to be like,
"Well, in this case, you actually have

to be here to, to secure the tickets."

Marissa: Yeah, you had to be there.

And sometimes even, sometimes randomly,
you would have to go to a department store

like Marshall Field's or Carson Pirie
Scott where the Ticketmaster thing was,

and then you'd have to go get the, from
the customer service desk where, like at

the mall, and it was like so random and
so weird, but it gave you a ticket stub,

and you could save your ticket stubs, and
you could have a memory from back then.

And I am just, I'm just all about it.

I really do miss, like I
miss… Yeah, I miss it.

I miss it.

I know.

I know I'm old, but

I'll take

Jason: but you could, you could
probably still, you could print

out his ticket stub, right?

You could, that's still an option.

Marissa: You can, but
it's just not the same.

Jason: It won't feel the same.

Yeah.

Marissa: not the same.

But he is very, very like-- He's like,
"Don't worry, I'll be there by 5:30."

Jason: was wondering, like at this moment
before I knew what was to come, right?

I was just like, is this-- are we
gonna get like this trial thrown out?

Is there gonna be a mistrial because
we found out that like Questa

was like acting inappropriately?

Like is that what we're going to do here?

Like that was my thought because why else
are we seeing this from Questa where we

see him like purposefully trying to move
things along for his own personal gain

to get, to get concert tickets, right?

I was like, is it, is it gonna be
like found out that he's like rushing

things along in a like not cool way?

Marissa: I think it, the, it was
to do that thing that they love

to do is put that clock, put that
sense of urgency behind the case.

It's like, we are already anxious
because Kerry's in court, but, like,

let's throw a little something extra
into the mix here by having Questa

seemingly disinterested, already having
a predetermined opinion on the case, and,

you know, really wanting to get out by
5:30 PM when there's a lot to do here.

We don't have a jury.

We don't ha- We have to set everything up.

So he calls.

He's like, "One more time. You
wanna ta- you wanna take that plea?"

Jason: Yeah.

And th- and there's so much going on here,
like, uh, with Geneva, with the jury.

I thought-- I was like, "Is
something gonna go wrong here

where, like, it's this is

Marissa: Yeah

Jason: this is what's gonna save Carrie
in the end?" But I, you know, we'll,

we'll find out what, what happens.

But I'll-- I was just wondering, like,
which of these elements is going to

be the thing that springs Carrie?

Marissa: Well, they really lead us to
believe that something's gonna happen

with the jury because they, uh, Cuesta
announces the jury will be seated today.

We're g- we'll move through voir
dire, but it's gonna happen today.

It's not gonna be a multi-day process.

Find your people.

We're gonna sit these people.

Uh, they argue over one specific juror
dude, and they really make sure that we

know that we see his face, we see him.

Um, he ends up being quite conse-
consequential, uh, to the case overall,

but his name is, uh, last name is Frati.

Yes.

And he's played by Jason… I
thought he was from Only Murders

in the Building, but I was wrong

Jason: Yeah, this is Zach Orth.

Um, I think most commonly known
maybe from Wet Hot American Summer, I

Marissa: Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jason: know him from a little-known
show called Revolution.

When Revolution came
on, I was all about it.

Now, Revolution was one of those
kind of like, uh, Lost clones, right?

Where they're like, there needs
to be some, like, sci-fi mystery

in the middle of all these things.

Like, if for those of you that
recall, like, a Flash Forward or, you

know, o- those other shows that took
advantage of Lost's kind of like,

uh, mystery, uh, myt- mythological
world where you can get wrapped up in.

Revolution was one of those where I
think, I, if I remember correctly,

the kind of plot to Revolution was,
okay, electricity is gone, and we

have to figure out why electricity
exited the building and how society is

going to function without electricity.

And it was kinda, it was almost kinda
like a post-po- apocalyptic feel

to it of like… Uh, so that was an
interesting show, and this guy was

kinda like who they were-- He was like
an engineer or whatever, and he was

part of our motley crew of misfits
who were trying to figure out, like,

how to get the electricity back.

Why the electricity?

What happened to electricity?

And so that was g- I th- if I
remember correctly, that was, like,

the plot and the premise of that
show, and he was a big part of it.

So that, when I saw him, I was like,
"Oh, that's this guy. This guy's cool."

Marissa: And then when w- we, when
I looked him up to, like, see if he

was on Only Murders in the Building,
he was on Zoe's, uh, extraordinary

playlist, which was also a good one.

Yes, but he is definitely
the center of attention here.

They're arguing over him because
his sister is a defense attorney.

Diane's like, "Uh, you let other
people on with s- similar things."

And Quest is like, "It's fine. We
gotta s- we gotta see this through.

We gotta see this through." We
then get a scene with Geneva.

This is, like, one of the very
few, if maybe the only personal

scene we see with Geneva Pine.

Geneva is on the phone, and we hear
things like, "I can't leave him.

I love him. I'll see you later."

And I was like, "Oh my God,
Geneva, what's going on?" And then

I was like, "Oh, Geneva, why?"

Jason: I was taken aback.

I was like, "Geneva
Pine, how, how could you?

This woman of virtue and
right standing having an

Marissa: Geneva

Jason: And then I was like,
"Well, I mean, I mean,

Marissa: She's

Jason: maybe she has good
reason." You know what I mean?

Like, maybe, maybe something's going on.

Maybe, maybe, may- all
cheating can't be bad.

Geneva's doing it, right?

Right?

It's Geneva.

Geneva.

And the, and yeah, so like, yes,
this-- She must be having a smoking

hot affair with a smoking hot…

Marissa: must be worth

Jason: Yeah, it must

Marissa: gotta be worth

Jason: Who could?

And she goes, "Don't smile at me on
the stand." I was like, "Okay, whoa."

I was like, "What does that mean?

Is she gonna be like, 'This is someone
involved in the, in a case?'" And

then mother effing Gary Prima is on
the stand. You're like, "Pr- Prima?

This?

Marissa: And he winks and he
smiles, and I was like, "Oh, ugh,

Jason: Prima?

This guy?

Okay.

All right." I mean, listen,
if, if you like it, I love it.

I

Marissa: I mean, sure, I'm not here
to yuck your yum or whatever, but

Geneva, you deserve so much better,
which we'll talk about in a minute.

Uh, she's a little distracted by
Prima and the wink and everything.

Um, and she, like, uh, says some-- She's
like, "The detective interrogating the

detective?" And Prima's like, "You mean
like the detective interrogating the CI?"

And she's like, "Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, that's the one.

That's the one." Uh, but they end
up bringing it in the wiretap, to

which Diane is going to object, but
Cuesta reminds, like, "Hey, look,

like this is, this is gonna happen.

This is happening." Carrie does
seem to notice that something

weird is going on with Geneva here.

There ends up being some crosstalk in
the jury box which, which Cuesta, um,

calls out, and then he instructs the jury
to say like, "Hey, we're gonna let this

evidence in, but there's no way that the
guy on this tape can be cross-examined

by anyone because he's dead. So just
know that, like that's gonna happen."

And then speaking of better
for Geneva Pine, I could be

like … I was like, what?

Do my eyes-- Am I seeing what I am seeing?

Because none other than Christopher
Jackson walks in this courtroom

Jason: Washington

Marissa: And I was like,
"What is happening?

What is

Jason: I,

Marissa: Angelica Schuyler and
George Washington in the same place."

Jason: I gasped.

I said, "Oh," I said, "Is that
Christopher Jackson?" I said, "Oh

my God." I was like, this is so wild

Marissa: Here comes the

Jason: Here comes the president.

Uh, it's just like, this is wild for
so many different reasons, right?

Because, you know, for those that
don't understand the references that

we're referencing as we're talking
about him, Christopher Jackson and

Renée Elise Goldsberry, AKA Eva
Pine, are both original cast members

of, uh, a little show you might
have heard of called "Hamilton."

Uh, so it's like, uh, like as a hu- like
as a recent huge "Hamilton" fan, I was

like, "Oh my God." And so of course I was
like, well, obviously this is from like

them being t- like did, did Renée like,
like, you know, recommend him for this?

Like is this supposed to be a wink and
a nod to "Hamilton?" What's going on?

So I mean, but this was act-
actually I think, uh, and Marissa

you also look up the dates.

It was very, it was very close
to when "Hamilton" premiered.

So I, I think when this was filmed,
they at least probably knew each

other 'cause they were doing
like rehearsals for "Hamilton"

Marissa: yeah, they had to be
in rehearsals because Hamilton

premiered off Broadway in February
of 2015, and this episode re- uh,

was going on November t- of 2014.

So they definitely, they definitely
knew each other, for sure.

And they probably were like,
"Hey…" Like, I wonder if

production was like, "Hey, we need
someone to play your husband."

And I wonder if Renee was like,
"I know a guy. Hey, Chris, do

you wanna come in?" And you know
what's great is like he doesn't say

Jason: I, not a word.

I was so, I was so happy

Marissa: he has no… He does put a
little note on her desk that says,

"We need to talk," and he walks out.

And like the presence he…
Like, you knew he was acting.

He wasn't just phoning it

Jason: Yes, Mr. Washington.

President, yes, sir. And it's
just like, I was so excited.

I was like, "Oh my God, we're gonna get
some cl- we're gonna get some masterclass

of acting here." But then he doesn't show
back up at all in the, in the episode.

I was like, "Okay, well that was for

Marissa: No.

No, we do see him in photos.

Jason: Well, yeah, sure

Marissa: like m- wedding photos of the
two of them, and I thought that was cute

Jason: Yeah, I was just wondering,
I was like, there's some reason why

they couldn't have him say anything?

It's so weird.

But, and, and also it's like
you're leaving Christopher

Jackson for, for Gary Prima?

I was like,

Marissa: Exactly.

Jason: okay.

Okay.

What-- Well, they're like-- And we
did not dive into this, uh, nearly

as much as I wanted to 'cause like
we kind of don't really hit on

this a lot throughout the episode.

I was like, this is a subplot.

After everything else, this is
the subplot I wanna get into.

Like, what is happening?

F. Felicia had her problems.

I wanna know what's going on with Geneva
and Christopher Jackson 'cause this

is, this is intriguing as hell to me.

Um, and yeah, it was

Marissa: and to put some other credits
on Christopher Jackson's name, he was

also an original cast member of In the
Heights, which was Lin-Man- Lin-Manuel

Miranda's first musical, and then he also
was in his own courtroom procedural, Bull.

Uh, but yeah, I would love to
know how they meet, how they get

married, how, like, what's going on.

Was he here the whole time?

Did she go home and talk about
how annoying Carrie was at work?

Like, what's, what does
he do for a living?

Where, like, all of these
questions I have, which will never

Jason: you can't just give me this little
morsel and expect me to be fed off that.

I need, I, I need a lot more

Marissa: Oh, it was such a, like, it, I
think it was like a if you know, you know

type of moment, and it was so cool to kind
of like be back, like to watch it back,

'cause it means a lot more now than

Jason: and when people, yeah, when
people were watching this, they were

probably just like, "Oh, it's, it's this
guy." I mean, I'm sure the people that

knew Broadway at that point and knew
of In the Heights were like, "Oh, it's

Christopher Jackson." People were like,
"Okay, her husband's here," whatever.

But like, as you said, people in the
future watching this is like, "Oh

my God, that was George Washington
and Angelica Schuyler are, like,

together. Like they're a thing."

Marissa: Yeah.

So, so fun.

Uh, Diane has to cross-examine Prima, and
she's asking, like, "Was Trey your CI?

When was the last time you spoke to him?"
He's like, "Uh, I don't know." She goes,

"A month ago?" He's like, "I don't know.

Was it a month ago?

Uh, I spoke to someone who
identified themself as Trey

Jason: I couldn't be sure

Marissa: Uh, Geneva doesn't like
that Diane is going with this line

of questioning, so she objects.

Um, and basically he does admit,
Prima does admit that Trey set up

Carrie by turning the wire off and on.

And Diane's like, "Look, you put this
into evidence, I'm gonna use it,"

basically

Jason: like, "This is hearsay."
Like, "Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah.

You're using the wiretap of a man that's
dead and s- and you're able to use that,

that is hearsay, so you opened the door
for this, so I can use hearsay as much

as you can, so ha, ha, ha, gotcha."

Marissa: Yeah, and the reason why
Trey did this is because he was

afraid of Bishop and he needed to
get Bishop off of Trey's, like, list.

And so he kind of set up Carrie
as a way to kind of take,

Jason: yeah.

Because Prima was wiring Trey up to
get Bishop and, like, I guess Trey

was just like, "Well, I can't give
you Bishop 'cause then I'll be dead.

But let me give you his lawyer,"
like, "so maybe that'll be,

uh, better." I don't know.

I don't-- The logic wasn't
really logicing for me.

But I was like, "Okay, they
gotta just figure out some

way to, like, explain this.

Fine.

Whatever." Um, so yeah, I was like…
So like, I guess he, he was trying

to protect himself in a way. Like,
"I, I'm not gonna get you Bishop.

Yeah, I'm not gonna do that.

But I'll get you some other guy."
That's, that's semi-involved

in Bishop's, uh, dealings.

Marissa: And then we get, I don't know,
Castro the character has gotten more

and more hilarious to me throughout
this type because he just, like, shows

up t- in Geneva's office and he's like,

Jason: Like a ghost

Marissa: us up, you opened us up
to reasonable doubt." And she's

like, "Uh-huh." And then he's like,
"You know what you need to do."

Like, y- like she's Batman or something.

It's like, you know, she's like,
"Yeah, okay." Then Primo walks in

and is like, "I guess we're over.

I guess that's it." She's like, "Yeah.

Jason: Yeah, your hot husband, your hot
husband walked in and left you a note.

I guess we're done, huh?

Marissa: That's it.

And then Geneva takes a breath
and she's like, "Okay, okay, it's

time to kick some ass." And she
calls Kalinda Sharma to the stand

Jason: dun duuun

Marissa: Then we get another scene
of the juror guy who I said I would

forget his name, Fre-Freddy, Freddy,
Fr-Freddy, Frati, uh, looking around.

He's looking a little concerned.

He doesn't really know what's going on.

And then we get Kalinda on the stand.

And I have to say, I really appreciate
how they put this for the audience

because it got us to be confused,
which is what I think a lot of people

who experience audi-audio processing
disorder deal with on a everyday basis.

Because we basically got the
introduction to Kalinda on the stand.

"Are you an investigator?" "Yes." "Are
you an investigator for Funnell, Ador

& Lookout?" And I was like, "Wait, what?

What is happening?" And that, "Do you work
for Lamar Bishop?" And I was like, "Huh?

What is going on?" But you realize
later that this is what Frati is,

like, hearing all of the time, and it
has to do with the fact that, like, he

can't see the person's face or see the
person's, like, lips as they're speaking.

And so this is, like, a real thing
that people deal with all of the time,

and I really enjoyed how they, how
they kind of put us in that position

to kind of feel that confusion

Jason: Yeah, for sure.

And, you know, it, it kind of reminds
me of h- like, at a, at a lesser, at

a lesser impact of me when I don't
have closed captioning nowadays.

I'm

Marissa: Oh yeah

Jason: "What'd they say? Did they, they
say what I think they said?" 'Cause I was

like, if I didn't have closed captioning,
I think I might've said funnel the door

and look out as, like, a real thing.

I'm like, I, I guess they said
Faugla, Faugla's Lockhart?

I don't know.

Um, yeah, I th- I thought, like you
said, that was a great device to kind

of introduce us to what, uh, Frati is
dealing with and how it's affecting him.

Uh, that was really, really effective.

Marissa: Yeah.

Uh, only Murders in the Building did
a similar, like an entire episode from

the perspective of someone who is deaf,
and I thought that was really cool, too.

It was just like, oh,
like this is their world.

This is how they, they experience life.

Uh, so creating a little
empathy here for Froddy.

Uh, he does hear the question posed
to Kalinda, "Are you his hunter?" And

he has to ask his juror friend next
door, like, "What, what did he say?"

He's like, "Oh, are you Cary's lover?"
He's like, "Oh." And they're … Of

course, lawyers are like saying this
is inadmissible, all this stuff.

So Quest is like, "Hey, this
entire conversation doesn't

matter." And Froddy's like, "Cool.

Jason: Great.

Awesome.

That works for me

Marissa: Yeah.

Uh, the juror that Frodie talked to
ends up giving the judge a note that

says, "Hey, like, this might, this guy
might be deaf, like partially deaf, and

this could be impacting the, the case."

So Cuesta, um, basically brings in the
entire jury after a break and then excuses

everyone except for Frodie, juror number
11, and brings him into his office.

Um, Cuesta knows very clearly
that this juror is pro-defense

and anti-prosecut- prosecution.

So he's like, "I know what's up.
Uh, but is there anything here that

will prevent your understanding?"

And he's like, "No, not really." And he,
he's like, "Do you have… Like, are you

partially deaf?" He's like, "No." "Do you,
like anything at all?" And he says, "I

have Auditory Processing Disorder or APD.

It rarely impacts me.

I wasn't really asked about this." And
then we get a really good demo from Judge

Cuesta about how when he turns his back
and speaks, Frodie can't really hear,

or Frodie com- comprehends the words in
a different way than Cuesta said them

Jason: Yeah, and I love the, the
first test where Quesa turns his

back and he says something, and
Diane goes, "Well, Your Honor, it's

not e- it's not a common last name."
And Diane knows what she's doing.

Bec- and because of that, uh, Frati can
surmise that Quesa's asking about the name

of the last witness, which was Kalinda.

And so, uh, Frati's
able to pass that test.

I mean, like, yeah, it was, uh,
Kalinda Sharma, I think was the name.

Uh, that's not common,
like this lady said.

So it's like, it, it's
really great to see.

And then, you know, Quesa does test him
again, and, uh, Frati fails, so it's

just like, oh, yeah, oh boy, Frati's out

Marissa: he, he's out.

He goes and walks up to Carrie,
who's just standing outside

Jason: Staying there with his arm,
like, you know, on a, on a wall and

like posting up next to Kalinda, like,

Marissa: Doing a lean.

Jason: natural."

Marissa: Uh, and he's like, "I'm
so sorry. I thought you were

innocent." And Kerry goes to Kalinda,
"I need your help, Kalinda. We

don't have a strong enough case."

Jason: And they did, they did this
weird thing that I think they've been

doing for a couple time, or like this is
the second time I've clocked it in the

last few episodes where like they then
go to commercial break and then they

shoot the same scene from a different
angle because this time we kind of

see it from Kalinda and Carrie's point
of view of the juror coming up and

letting them know like, "Hey, my bad.

I thought you were innocent." And
I thought it was gonna trigger some

sort of new, uh, device or something.

But no, it was just a complete, it
was a complete just, it was just

another angle of the same exact thing.

I was like, "Okay, cool." And the way
that Frati walked off, like he gave a

last like look at Kalinda and Carrie.

I thought that something
else was gonna come of Frati.

Like he was gonna like, he was gonna
make it up to Carrie by finding

something to help him with the case.

But nothing ever came of that.

He just, he just left and that was it.

As far, as far as we know.

He could, he could come in some
other, some future, uh, episode and

do something else different, but just
the way they left him, I was like,

it seemed like he had more to do.

It seemed like he was on a mission of some
sort, but he just, he just peaced out.

Like, "All right, bye."

Marissa: Yeah.

Yeah.

It was a little weird.

He just kind of left.

And I like, I agree, I was looking for
some of that extra information of like,

what are we supposed to get out of this?

Um, Kalinda calls Alicia and says, "Hey,
look, this is, this is what we need.

We need to get a lead on this Dante
guy because this… And to do that,

you're gonna need to talk to Finn."

Jason: Yeah.

I, first of all, work for Kerry.

After Ferati leaves, Kerry's like,
"Well, Kalinda, I'm gonna need your

help." Like, yeah, no shit, Kerry.

Like, you always, you
always need Kalinda's help.

Uh, as, as if he's asking
for some abnormal favor.

You al- like Kalinda's constantly
saving the day, as if she wasn't

already working to save your butt.

Like, "I need a favor, Kalinda.
I need a fa-" Like, yeah, you

need to help me get out of this.

Like, yeah, no crap, Kerry.

No crap.

You need my help to get out of everything.

And yeah.

And so Kalinda calls Alicia, she's
like, "Hey, buddy, friend of mine,

uh, be- bestie, that we can't be in
the same room together so much so.

We need the last remaining Black
person that we haven't killed.

We need to find, find the last Black guy."

Marissa: Yeah, and I couldn't even
remember, like, this Dante guy's,

like, impact on the case at all.

I just was like, "Oh, okay, we'll
find out." Like, I couldn't…

I, I

' Jason: cause I mean, there
were three gang members,

Marissa: One of the guys,

yeah.

Jason: with Carrie as they were talking.

Two of them are dead, so this
is the last remaining one

Marissa: So Alicia meets Finn in
a diner because they've had this

conversation about just the same
conversation that she had with Will.

Like, we need rules.

We can't, like, be around each other.

We're avoiding each
other, blah, blah, blah.

We obviously have the hots for
each other, but we can't act on

it because it's unprofessional.

Like yada, yada, yada.

So they decide to meet in a diner and
have pancakes to have this conversation,

and Alicia asks about Dante, but then
the power goes out, and there's candles

of course, and of course this diner
would have a, like, acoustic guitar

musician on hand, very putting the vibes.

Uh, but Finn says, "I, I
can't, I can't say anything."

She's like, "But it's, but it's
Carrie." He's like, "I can't say

anything, but I can pass you this
envelope of photos from Bishop's house."

Jason: Which is so weird 'cause it's

like, do y'all dis- do y'all just
disrespect the letter, the, the

essence and spirit of law like that?

You're like, "I can't technically say
anything, but I can illegally give you

some surveillance photos from the DA's
office." Like, I feel like that's kind

of, uh, just as bad as saying something

Marissa: So Clarinda takes those
photos and goes to Bishop's house and

Jason: w- WTF move ever.

It was like, what?

Klonda

Marissa: desperate, man.

Like, we're trying to
get Carrie out of this.

She goes there and of course,
um, Dylan is like, "Don't worry,

my dad will be right there. He's
just fighting with his girlfriend.

Like, this happens all the time."

Jason: So bizarre.

It was such a bizarre scene

Marissa: It w- really was because Bishop
comes down, like dismisses his girlfriend

basically, comes down and says goodnight
to Dylan, and then asks, or Kalinda asks,

like, "Dante, wait, where is Dante?" He's
like, "Uh, I don't, I don't want him to

testify, so I'm not gonna tell you." And
she's like, "Yeah, well, here's these

photos of the state's attorney's house."

He's like, "Well, am I in those, am
I in those photos? You don't really

have anything on me." She's like,
"It is enough for Child Protective

Services to take Dylan away, so
it's something. It's not nothing."

Jason: This is all very interesting
because, uh, you know, Aunt Kalinda

is like chopping it up with, uh,
with Dylan before Bishop comes.

She's like, "So you're home
at like 3:00 every day, yeah?

Like that's, uh, you're home
from school at that point?

Yeah, yeah, yeah?" And Dylan's like,
"Yeah, I guess." And it's like,

Kalinda's like, "Hey, hey Bishop.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You see these pictures of like drug
dealers coming in and out of your house?"

And he's like, "All right, well, okay.

Well…" A- and his, his
logic is weird to me.

He's like, "I mean, listen, I'm
not in those pictures, so what,

what, what's your point?" Like,
but it's, it's still known drug

Marissa: It's still your house

Jason: of your house.

And like Kalinda uses the fact that
like Dylan is in the house at, I

guess, the time of these pictures.

Like you're, you have your child
here with drug dealers, like coming

in and out of your house, so.

Uh, a- again, in a wild move that
like wow, Kalinda, th- this is--

Yeah, I know we wanna get Carrie
out of, out of prison, but is, is it

worth your life is, is my question.

'Cause she is really, uh, stepping
on a precarious line here of like

low-key threatening Bishop in a

Marissa: No, not low-key, not low-key
because Bishop Blake, like, would

clocks it and is like, "You threaten me?

You threaten my son?

Like, who do you think you are?

Who do you think you are, Kalinda?

Who do you think you are?

I'm Lamon Bishop."

Jason: Bitch.

And like, you know, and for, and for,
you know, Lamont Bishop, you know, played

by Michael Colter of course, who, uh,
is always-- It's so effective because

Lamont Bishop is always a cool, calm,
collected person, and we've rarely

seen him, you know, really kind of get
into a, like, heightened state, right?

That's kind of his specialty
is like a, these, you know,

kind of really calm threats.

But for him to get animated in this
way, like, "You come here threatening

me?" I was like, "Woo." I was scared
and I was like, and I know this is

a fictional television show, I'm
not even anywhere near the room.

I'm just like, "Whoa." Like that is…
And you can-- And, and also like the way

that Kalinda, like, you know, Archie plays
it is like so great because like Kalinda

also is someone that never gets like
scared or never gets like, uh, frightened.

For her to, to see her face of like,
"Oh crap," like, "Yeah, I may have like

really crossed the line here." Yeah, and

Marissa: then, like the next scene we
see is Dante walking into the courtroom.

So I'm like, "What

happened

Jason: threat worked.

The threat worked as far as, as
far as we're seeing in this moment.

Like, okay, well, the threat has
been conveyed, the threat worked.

Bishop produced Dante.

Uh, because, you know,

Marissa: Dante's, yeah, he gets on the
stand and he's all like, "Yeah, I'm Dante.

Jason: it's me.

Hi

Marissa: Yeah, it's me.

Yeah, I, yeah, I knew Trey.

Yeah, yeah, I know Carrie." Uh, and
then the door opens in the back,

Jason: Dun dun dun

Marissa: and Bishop walks in the door and
I'm like, oh, I know where this is going.

I know exactly where this is going.

The next question, uh, to Dante
from Diane is, "Did Carrie

tell you how to break the law?"

And Dante's like, "Sure did. Yep, that's
exactly what happened." And Diane's

like, "Is someone threatening you?
Like, why are you doing this?" Like,

she's like trying to get the answer out.

The judge calls it off, and Kalinda
turns to Bishop and says, "You gotta

get him to tell the truth." And he's
like, "Don't ever threaten me again.

Uh, and that's your problem, not mine."

Jason: Yeah.

Oof.

'Cause, you know, we-- listen, we,
uh, I think everyone in the, in the

moment thought like, "All right.

Phew.

Uh, Carrie's out of trouble.

Dante's gonna come in here
and tell everybody, 'Yeah, you

know, it's not Carrie's fault.

We kind of like tricked him
into telling us that stuff.

It was this, this, and that.'"

For Dante to just come up and just
like blow up the whole spot and

like, "No, he definitely told us how
to break the law." Like, ooh, crap.

And just to see, and just to see
how Bishop played this, it was just

like, "Yeah, girl, you don't just
fricking threaten me, my G. Uh, so

I'm gonna send you up shit's creek
without a paddle, so deal with that.

Marissa: Yeah.

Jason: Mm.

Marissa: Kerry does talk with
Kalinda a little bit afterwards.

He's like, "I'm just so tired.
Like, I just want this to be over."

Um, Diane comes in with Geneva.

There's a new offer of time served and
six months if you testify against Bishop.

Yeah, that's not gonna

Jason: the way they played that
out was great because, like, you,

you almost think of like, wow, the,
like, the impossible's happened.

She's like, "You can get time served
and six months probation." And

Carrie's like, "Wow, really?" Like,
"That's… Geneva, like, I know we had

our issues and the state's attorney's
office, wow, this is so nice of you."

And it's like, "Only if you testify
against Bishop." I was like,

"Oh, sh- well, yeah, I d- n- no.

Can't def- definitely can't do that 'cause
she, I'll be out of prison, but I'll be

dead." Like, so definitely can't do that.

Marissa: And then she offers four
years, and with good time or good

behavior, it would really only
be two years in the real time.

And Dan's like, "You can go to jur-
you could go to the jury and get 15

years, or you could take this deal and
get out when you're 37." I was like,

"Oh my God, he's supposed to be 30--

Jason: I was like, Kerry's

Marissa: supposed to be 33?"

I went, "What?

Jason: 30, uh, well, or, or 35.

Marissa: 35.

Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Jason: I was like, really, with that skin?

He's 35?

Oh, I g- I gotta get your
skincare routine there, Kerry

Marissa: So Diane calls
Alicia, brings her up to speed.

She's like, "I can't imagine
being in this position.

I'm gonna come over." She's like,
"Yeah, I think that's a good idea."

Uh, Cary's just out walking the streets
that night thinking about his life,

thinking about all of the stuff.

Gets picked up by Bishop, which at this
point he's like, "What do I have to lose?"

Like, "Sure, I'll get in the car
with you, whatever." And Bishop

is like, "Look, you've been good.

You've been a good soldier.

You did good things.

Um, I got a way to get you out.

You would just have to go to Spain and
be my businessman over there." And Cary's

like, "I don't think I could do that.

The firm… I still owe
the firm $1.3 million."

And he says, "Don't go
to jail for a law firm."

Jason: Yeah

Marissa: And so on his way back, he
goes into the office and Alicia's

there, and we get this scene,
which I still do not believe.

Like, I have a lot of problems with
this because we had the fight between

Cary and Alicia, but we never got any
resolution, and then we're getting this

like, "Oh my God, Cary, you're gonna
go to jail," like moment, which I…

Jason: about?

Marissa: Over the… Like
right before Diane joined the

Jason: Oh, about,

Marissa: the whole like, yeah, like the
whole all this stuff, and I guess they

moved past it or whatever, but like, it's
just I don't think that this is earned

from Alicia, like this caring about Cary.

Like, I get it, but I don't because
she's like, "You gotta fight it.

Don't do it." Like, "Don't go to
jail." And then ch- then he, she

realizes like he's gonna take the
plea and she's like, "I'll visit you.

Of course I will

Jason: Well, I think, I
think it's tough, right?

Because Alicia's had to excuse
herself from all of the Cary

stuff due to the proximity that
Kalinda is with this storyline.

So all we've seen from Alicia is like,
is like, uh, you know, "Good luck, Cary,"

and pat him on the shoulder and go off
and do her state's attorney campaign.

So I, I do think it, it is, it
does kind of ring, uh, false or it

doesn't give the impact it should
because she hasn't been there.

Like, it should be Alicia in the
Diane role and, you know, fighting

for Cary's life, but because of this
whole, you know, Archie and Juliana rift

and, and schism, it has to be Diane.

So for, for Alicia to pop in and out
of this storyline and be like, "Oh,

poor Cary, uh, I don't want you to
go to jail, but yeah, I gotta go over

here and do this, so see you later,"
it, it does kind of ring hollow.

Uh, but y- And I, I do because,
and, and because we spent almost 10

episodes with Alicia and Cary being
on kind of separate tracks, you know.

They, they take these momentary, uh, dips
in and out of each other's storylines,

but because they haven't been around each
other for, uh, for so long, you know.

I think in last season when
Alicia and Cary, it was Alicia

and Cary versus the world, right?

They were, they were, you know,
getting this new law firm together.

I think I would buy this more in
that timeline than I am now where

we spent most of the season kind
of with them on separate tracks.

Um, but yeah, you know, I think in the,
um, it was when Cary went to prison the

first time and, like, Alicia hugged him,
it was like, "We've never really hugged

bef-" Or when he got out of prison.

And it was like, "This is the
first time we've actually hugged,

huh?" Like, you know, it was
like, it w- that was interesting.

And so for it to also be seen here
was, you know, it was touching

for, for a moment to kind of see
them with kind of their bond again.

But because they've been on separate
storylines for, for this for so

long, it's just, it, it's not, it
doesn't hit as well as it should have.

Marissa: I agree.

I agree.

And in the end, uh, they call
Kerry to court and say, "How do you

plea?" He pleads guilty, so he does
take the four-year plea deal, and

that's where we leave the trial.

We still have to talk about
the campaign, but any final

thoughts on the Kerry of it all?

Jason: Uh, yeah, like, uh, I think there
was a lot of like, uh, red herrings here

for me of like I thought that this is
gonna go in so many different places,

uh, because I was like, "There's no
way Kerry's gonna actually go to jail,

right? So something's got, something's
gotta happen here." Like so-- And I

thought it was like, is it going to
be that, you know, the affair between

Geneva and Prima gets found out and
that affects things on the trial?

Is it gonna be that Questa, uh, we
find out Questa, like someone finds

out Questa's been hurrying things
along for his own personal, uh, gain.

Is that gonna affect something?

Is the, is the tainted jury
pool going to affect something?

So I, I thought all these things
would come into play of like, okay,

well this trial was not done in the
most, uh, effective and efficient

manner, so we'll mistrial or whatever.

I thought something of that effect was
gonna happen, but then for it to just be

kind of like, nope, he just pleads guilty
and that's it, and we'll see what else

happens, you know, in future episodes.

But, uh, for it to go that way,
I don't think I was expecting in

the beginning of this episode.

Marissa: Yeah, I really thought it was
gonna be another, like, jury situation

based on the juror setup that we
had, um, with every… Like, they put

a lot of concentration on that guy

Jason: Yeah, and I, I thought maybe
like even if Carrie was found guilty,

then we would find out like, nope, we
gotta try it again because this juror

was not, uh, effective or whatever.

I thought so many things were
gonna happen that didn't end up

happening, and I really enjoyed the,
like the Bishop's gambit, right?

Of like, you know, of Kalinda like really
just going out on a limb, like really

risking, risking her life in that moment.

I loved in the moment where he's
like, "Does anyone else know

you're here?" Just like, "Yes.

People do know that I'm here.

People will miss me if I turn up missing.

Uh, so do not disappear me."

And she, and she makes sure to
tell him, "These are copies.

These are not the original pictures, so I
do have other backups in case you decide

to disappear me and take the pictures.

I do have insurance plans in place for
this." So, uh, you know, a, a, Lamar,

a-- I'm really loving the pairing of
Bishop and Kalinda in this season, and

how they're like playing off each other.

Like that's really a highlight
for the season for me.

Marissa: Yeah, it's, it's good to see
Kalinda have someone to talk to, at

least someone to be part of that's
not Carrie and not Lana, I guess.

Jason: Well, I mean, hon- honestly,
Kalinda's getting the better part

of the, of the schism right now.

She's able to talk to, you know,
all the main players like Diane,

Carrie, uh, you know, Bishop.

Alicia's out here in Alicia world
just talking to Eli and Elfman and

Marissa: Yeah.

I mean, who wouldn't
wanna talk to Marissa?

But, um, let's talk
about what she's up to.

Jason: Yeah

Marissa: So we get this phone call from
Jackie at the start of the episode,

and she's like … She … Alicia
gets interrupted to take this call

from Jackie, and Jackie's like, "Well,
I'm here at your sch- at Grace's

school because I'm still listed as an
emergency contact, emergency contact."

And Alicia's like, "Is Grace okay?"

Jason: Like, yeah,
yeah, get to it, Jackie.

What, what are you calling me

Marissa: "What's going on?" She's like,
"Yeah, she's fine, but, um, did you

threaten to kill a teacher with a knife?"

Jason: I'll give Ja-

Marissa: uh

Jason: I'll give Jackie her
props this episode, okay?

Jackie did not, uh, uh, uh, you
know, it, it, and you know, I, I'll

say, I'll say it with pun intended.

She did not twist the knife, uh, in
Alicia's, uh, parenting skills here when

I think the Jackie of a couple seasons
ago definitely would've done that.

And

Marissa: I, yeah

Jason: it's been a minute
since we've seen Jackie.

Um, it's, it's, you know, I don't
think we've seen her all season

in Season 6 so far, I don't think.

Marissa: I don't think

Jason: So this is the first time
we're really seeing Jackie in this

season, and she got… It's bringing
a different kind of like, different

vibe, a different air of Jackie.

Uh, she wasn't as
insufferable as she usually

Marissa: yeah.

And she's comic relief in the
next scene where we see Alicia.

She arrives at the school, and apparently
there's this note that Alicia has written.

And I just gotta say, I
don't find this funny.

This is not a joke.

This is not like … I know she's gonna
play this off as a jo- as a joke, but

this note says, "Grace has a cold.

Don't make her run.

I'll… Or I'll kill you, or I'll take
this knife and put it in your lower

intestines or something, and I'd call the
principal, but the principal never answers

their calls, so you'll probably just
bleed out." It's just like, it was a joke.

And I was like, to who?

Juliana?

Because no, this is not a joke.

Like, this to me is not funny.

I, but I've ne- always been that
person that never finds this

type of stuff, quote-unquote,

Jason: mean, you, you are, you have
experience in teaching, so I imagine

someone joking about threatening a, a
teacher is, is not, is not great for you.

Um, but just, just as a, I don't
know, just as a thing, it was

just all of this was so weird and

Marissa: she tries to pass it off as
like, she's like, "It's a Darkness at

Noon quote, so like, h- don't you just
watch?" And I'm like, "No, Alicia, no."

And then, but then Jackie chimes in
and she's like, "Alicia's a good mom.

She would never stab a teacher."

Jason: Yeah.

Marissa: that's where I laughed.

I was like, "All right, Jackie.

All right.

All right."

Jason: I just, it, the, the premise of
this, uh, storyline was so weird to me

because I don't know a lot of people
that would actually do this, would

actually take the time to write the
note, give it to their, give it to their

daughter and be like, "Ha ha, isn't
that funny?" And like the daughter to

keep it, and then the daughter to, for
some reason, Grace, what, I don't know

what you're thinking, Grace, to give
the note up to a teacher voluntarily

to like, "Look what my mom wrote.

Isn't that funny?" Like, to
give this note to a teacher that

Marissa: That's what she

Jason: joking about killing a teacher
is like, okay, this is all just bizarre.

Like, I-

Marissa: it came up because they
were talking about satire in civics

class and what, what protects the
f- the First Amendment, what is

free speech, all of this stuff.

And so c- like, I could understand
Grace having a question and

using this as an example, but to
bring in the actual note of like,

Jason: for

Marissa: "Hey, so my mom, the wife of
the governor, uh, wrote this letter."

Jason: Yeah.

Like, you know, let's use our
thinking caps here, folks.

Let's, let's, let's figure out
what's, what's smart and what's not.

Marissa: Oh,

man

Jason: I can understand, like if,
if I'm, if I was Alicia, like, and

I said something like, "Wouldn't
it be funny if I said this, this,

or this?" Like, that's something.

But to actually like, and to
actually write the note in physical

form and to like hand it to your
daughter, "Isn't this funny?

Isn't this funny?"

Marissa: It's so insane to

Jason: It's weird.

It w- a- as, as the introduction
to a s- to a storyline and to a

subplot, it was a really clumsy
way to get into this subplot.

Marissa: Yeah.

Yeah.

So this is going on, like she's doing
this, and also in the campaign, they're

establishing headquarters where it looks
like the old office was basically the,

Jason: Like, we're not gonna,
we're not gonna, uh, you

know, destroy Setzer out here.

We, we can still use this.

Let's use this as Alicia's,
uh, campaign headquarters

Marissa: Yes.

Eli and John are talking about, like,
what to say about Carrie's trial,

if, you know, like, what's going on.

And Eli's like, "If he's, like, if he f-
please g- or if he's found guilty, we just

don't say anything. Like, we shouldn't
say anything." And Marissa's like, "It'll

look like Alicia's betraying Carrie. Like,
that shouldn't, that shouldn't happen."

And then they get a phone call from
the press, and Eli's like, "Look, it's

starting. It's starting already." And Eli
and John are kind of fighting over who's

gonna control the messaging on this call,
which they think is about Carrie's trial.

But it ends up being a reporter
going, "Hey, did Alicia threaten a

teacher with a knife?" And, and at
this point, Alicia has walked away,

and Marissa's like, "Hey, you might
wanna hear what's going on over here."

Jason: The clumsy and weird introduction
to this subplot was almost worth it to

see Eli and Elfman like, being like,
"What?" Like, "What are you talking about?

Of course Alicia would never do that.

Are you crazy?" Like, with them, like,
laughing at the reporter for even

suggesting that Alicia would do this,
for Alicia to have actually done it.

I think that was almost worth
the weird introduction to

Marissa: Yes.

Yes.

Agreed.

Because when, uh, Marissa brings Alicia
back, she's like, "You should know,

like, what happened." And they're
like, "You didn't, like, threaten a,

a teacher with a knife, did you?" And
she's like, "So here's the thing."

Uh, and Ali- Eli is like,
"I told you, no jokes.

No joking.

There's no jokes." And they find, they

She tells them that the
civics teacher has the note.

They wanna g- they have
to get the note back.

And Eli says this line,
which was hilarious to me.

He says, "The only bad people to
have in your life are teachers.

I trust assassins over teachers."

Jason: Hilarious.

It was, and just in the way that
Eli… Only, only in the way that

Eli can deliver these Eli… Alan
Cumming always doing it the best.

Uh, it's funny to talk about assassins
and everything, you know, trusting

assassins over teachers when, you know,
he would go on to host the Traitors.

You

Marissa: Yes, exactly.

Exactly.

A little foreshadowing there.

Uh, Marissa does find that the
story has leaked on BuzzFeed.

They're kind of framing Alicia as
this mama bear, grizzly bear type of

character, but they don't necessarily
have the note, so this is good.

So Alicia calls Grace in the middle of the
day at school, I guess is a thing you can

do, and says, "Hey, uh, we want the note."

And she's like, "Cool.

The civics meet- the civics teacher
will give it to you, but she wants to

talk to you first." And Marissa says to
Alicia during this phone call, "You're so

nice with your daughter." While they're
talking about how this is a joke, and

I'm like, this is still not a joke.

Like, you're still not, you're still not
getting me on Team Joke at this point.

Jason: I was like, it's, it's so
weird that we've never seen Marissa

with her mother, although we have met
her mother in the past on this show.

And I still honestly cannot
place the mother with Marissa

and to make, and to make it work

Marissa: Parker Posey?

Jason: Yeah, I don't know why.

It's just like I can never, I
can never really square that.

Like, Parker Posey is Marissa's mother?

Like, it was so weird to me.

I, I really wanna see them in
a scene together to see how

that dynamic would work out

Marissa: That would be fun.

That would be fun.

Uh, John and Eli are fighting
about how to spin this because

they're still trying to figure out
who's in control of this campaign.

At the same time, Prady is being
interviewed on the television, and he

is asked about school violence, and he's
like, "Well, I would, I would prosecute

them to the fullest extent of the law.

T- school violence is no joke,"
signaling that he, like, might know

about this whole thing. And so then
John and Eli are like, "Okay, we gotta,

we gotta let this closeted story that
they have on, um, Frank Prady out."

And Prady's like, finds out, he's
upset. He's like, "Why did you do this?

And we said we wouldn't smear each other."

And she's like, "I didn't do anything.

I don't know what you're talking about,
really." And he's like, "Well, I didn't

know what I was saying when I was asked
the question." And she's like, "Cool.

Well, just correct it."
And he's like, "No.

Jason: Yeah, he, he was like, "Well,
we said we wouldn't like, you know, uh,

go out of our way to hurt each other.

We didn't say anything about helping each
other, and this would be helping you."

And I love how she goes, "Are we not
friends anymore, Frank?" Like, 'cause,

uh, you know, it's like, feel like if
we were friends like you say we are, you

would come on out and correct yourself

Marissa: So Alicia does go meet with
the civics teacher, and this was a

very smart play by the civics teacher,
in my opinion, because she held

the note and she said, "Hey, cool.

Like, I'll give it back to you, but you
know one thing that's been missing is

there used to be this, like, committee at
the state's attorney's office that was on

school crime and school crime oversight,
and that would be really cool if we had

that back, and especially if there was
a position set aside for a union rep."

And Alicia is almost,
like, offended by this ask.

She's like,

Jason: of virtue over
here, Alicia Florrick

Marissa: And both Eli and John
are like, "Just give it to her.

Like, this is a great idea.

Like, this, this is a win-win.

Like, you should go do this."
She's like, "No, no patronage."

So they end up getting this note-

Jason: and I, I love where, uh, Elphie,
you know, like, uh, well, Peter, uh,

no, Elphie says, "Well, Peter does all,"
and Alicia's like, "Exactly." I-- And

Marissa: I am not like

Jason: as it was coming out of Elphie's
mouth, Eli was like, "Oh, God, don't

do that." Like, that's not the tactic
to use 'cause, uh, saying that so she

would do something that Peter would
do is not the way to go about this.

Um, I also kinda wanna roll back a
little bit because I think within all the

cross, uh, talk of the plots, it got lost
where Finn did come to Alicia's office

Marissa: Oh, yeah.

I thought, yes.

I thought it,

Jason: you know I gotta fla--

Marissa: the diner thing,

Jason: you know I gotta flag up,

Marissa: about rules

Jason: I gotta flag up any
Fin-Alicia talk, you know?

Because Fin-Alicia's, I feel like
the thing that, you know, we've

all want to happen, you know?

It, it… Finn go, Finn
goes to her office.

Like, they kinda like clo- lock
eyes at the… I don't know

why Finn's even on this floor.

Like, your office isn't even on this
floor where Alicia's floor is at.

I feel like he went to this
floor just to catch Alicia's eye.

And so they're like, "Have
we been avoiding each other?"

It's like, "Oh, maybe. I don't
know, 'cause things were a little,

like, a little awkward in your
office the other day. Like, I don't

know." And so he's sitting having,
like, a little fun Fin-Alicia chat.

And I-- it does-- it's not lost on me that
this Fin-Alicia chat is in Will's office

Marissa: Well, that's what I was saying
before is like this is like almost the

exact same conversation that Alicia
has had with Will in the same office.

Like Will said like, "Hey, we could
do this. We just need like, we need

some rules. Like we could do this,
we could use some rules, or like we

can't do this, so we need some rules."

You know?

Like it's the same conversation in the
same place with a just a different dude

Jason: And like, uh, just, just for Finn
to keep winning me over, he's just like,

they're-- 'cause they do this whole
thing where like, "Yeah, we all just meet

and write in the diners and not bars.

You only talk about the law, and
like maybe there's accordion music

playing." Finn goes, "Well, actually,
accordion music turns me on."

I was like, "Oh, Finn, you, you funny
guy." Uh, why-- uh, boy, why isn't

Alicia like taking you up on your
offers, taking you up on your advances?

You're, you're the kind
of guy Alicia needs.

Uh, so yeah, I just wanted to kind
of clock that moment w- 'cause

it was so interesting to be like,
"Have we been avoiding each other?"

It's like, "We have.
Let's just be friends."

Marissa: And then that's the whole reason
why they decided to meet in the diner.

Jason: That got kind of
turned into a romantic scene,

Marissa: Yes.

Y- yes.

No, it was cute.

It was cute.

In the end, the note does go out to
the press, um, but so do the teachers.

The teachers end up going out to
the press and they, like, talk about

how, like, this was no big deal.

Like, it's not a big deal.

It's a joke.

This happens, this happens all the time.

Like, not a big deal.

Uh, and Alicia's like, "What?

What happened?" They're like, "Oh, well,
they just got positions on the state

safety committee." It's like, Peter.

So Peter, uh, offered
patronage instead of Alicia.

And, and both, like, Elfman and
Eli was like, "You didn't do it.

Jason: Yeah.

Marissa: wasn't you.

It wasn't you.

You didn't do it." Um, but
that's, that was our little

campaign update this episode

Jason: Yeah, I do wonder if there's
some point where Alicja's gonna snap,

because this isn't the first time that
kind of Elphie and Eli have gone over

her head to, to like kind of conspire
with Peter to get things done like,

you know, against Alicja's wishes.

So I do wonder where that's gonna
go, if it goes anywhere, to be

like, "Listen, y'all need to stop
going over my head to my husband."

Marissa: first they gotta
stop fighting with each other.

Like, what is your job, Eli?

Are you not the chief of
staff to the governor, or are

you running this campaign?

Like, what are you

Jason: Yeah, he's like the shadow
campaign manager where it's like,

I feel like Alfred's almost like,
"Bro, like what am I even here for if

you're just gonna do, try do my job?"

Marissa: Exactly.

Exactly.

So that's our episode

Jason: That's our epi.

Um, Marissa, do you wanna tell
the good folks where they can

find you and what you're up to?

Marissa: You can always find me at
itsmemarissag.com where I got links to all

of the things, including The Gilded Pod if
that's a adventure you wanna join us on.

Uh, we did get someone who wrote
in that said that we were able to

convince them to watch The Gilded Pod,
or The Gil- to watch The Gilded Age

and maybe The Gilded Pod on YouTube.

Um, so you could be like that person
and join, join the fun and join us.

We have a blast covering that show.

Um, so you can find links
to it at itsmemarissag.com

Jason: shout out to Stacy McGee, which
I'm not even sure if they listen to

the, to, to this side of the Good Pod.

But Stacy, if you do, uh,
we did get your email.

We thank you so-- Like they, they
wrote a great email talking about the

fact that we got them into the, the
Gilded Age, um, because of everything.

Um, so yeah, I hope you join…

Of course, St- Stacy, I assume you're
gonna join us for the new season of "The

Gilded Age," which, uh, we actually,
we're gonna kinda preview this podcast.

What, actually by the time of
this, this is probably already

out, or, or hopefully it is.

But we did do a, uh, trailer
reaction to "The Gilded Age," uh,

that should be in your Gilded Pod,
Gilded Pod, uh, feed right now.

So if you wanna get a little preview
of how the season's gonna go and,

and the trailer and stuff, go on over
there and, uh, listen to us talk about

it in anticipation of the new season

Marissa: Yeah.

So like I said, itsmemarissag.com.

Jason, what's going on with you?

You got, you said you got a
lot going on, so tell the peeps

Jason: Talking mess, talking drama,
talking action, all that stuff.

Um, again, by the time you listen to
this, uh, I should be covering or getting

ready to cover the new season of "Love is
Blind: Boston." It's gonna be in Boston.

Uh, so check us out over there.

I'm sure, I'm sure we're just having
a great, fun old time talking about

the new season of "Love is Blind."

It's always a mess, always fun
to cover with me, Asia Welch, and

Maria Kowalski over on the Rob Has a
Podcast, "Love at First Sight" feed.

So go check that out, uh, wherever
it is you get your podcasts, whether

it be on YouTube, whether it be
on an audio form, it's everywhere.

So go check that out as well.

And also, you can check me out a- always
on Patreon over on the "A Perfect Match"

podcast, again, with Asia Welch, talking
about the show "Married at First Sight."

We are, uh, wrapping up coverage of Season
12 pretty soon, so, uh, check us out over

there on "Married at First Sight," uh, one
of the better seasons of television for

that show, so go check that out as well.

I'm doing a lot of things in a lot
of places, uh, so check all that out.

But until next time on
this podcast, stay good.