Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
A variety podcast from GumAudio covering innovation, creativity and the podcast industry.
gumaudio.com
I love the simplicity of it. Again, this is what I would say, and a lot of companies kinda wanna complicate it. That's why I love doing musical branding, honestly, more than film composing. You just get right to the bones. Like, just call it what it is.
Dan:Hey, everybody. This is Dan and welcome to another episode of the GumLab. So today I'm really excited to bring forward a conversation that I had with my friend Sam Stewart. Sam is a well known composer and musician based in Dallas, Texas. He originally made a name for himself composing for film and TV but he's since transitioned to doing a lot of sonic branding projects.
Dan:So that's what this conversation is about, sonic branding. Sonic branding simply put is establishing a sound or a set of sounds to associate directly with your brand or product. When you do this, this leads to greater audience engagement and greater audience awareness of exactly what your brand is. This is a really cool conversation for anybody who wants to learn more about Sonic branding, and, that's it. I'm excited to bring forward my conversation with Sam.
Dan:Okay. Here we go. Alright. Hey, this is Dan and, I'm here today with my buddy, Sam Stewart, a well known composer and musician. And, Sam, today we're gonna talk about Sonic branding.
Sam:Awesome.
Dan:So you have a background in composing for film and TV. I know the past few years you've taken on some more sonic branding projects. Can you talk a little bit about that journey?
Sam:Yeah. Gosh. It's been 20 years. I started at a church branding many short films and intros, so it was kind of like a lead in to sonic branding.
Dan:So you've done work you've worked with people with companies like Ferrari and NFL and companies that Yeah. Really have established identities, and people know what their products are. You and I worked on a project together with Bible project, and I wanna specifically kinda go over that and just kinda showcase that for a second because I really enjoyed working on that project together. And I think it was a great example of how sound can influence messaging and influence meaning for a brand. So what was the original challenge that you saw when Bible project approached you about creating some sonic branding assets?
Sam:By the way, that was, like, one of my favorite projects ever. It's usually the same problem, bro. Like, nobody really knows what they want yet. And so the process that I've kinda developed over time is one of narrowing things down. It's more like, tell me what you don't like.
Sam:So we're right away, I think we all identified. We're not gonna do country, right, because that's not gonna fit the brand, and we're not gonna use those types of instruments. But what we did there is we started with 4 simple notes, which you and I worked on together. And I love the simplicity of that because Bible project. Mhmm.
Sam:We finally identified that, and that sprung forward like everything else that we made and did.
Dan:Hey. This is Dan clicking in here real quick, and I want to play for you the 4 notes that we came up with. Now you'll notice that there's 4 notes here, and then there's what we would call just a stinger at the end, which is technically a 5th note. It's inherited from an old Bible project sound that they had that was pretty close to the sonic logo, but we wanted to update it. Okay.
Dan:Here's the four notes that Sam is referring to.
Sam:And we try to include those notes in that progression and pretty much all the songs that we made. I think we made over, you know, on my side, it was like 60, 70 songs. You know, what was delivered was less than that. We had to narrow down what do we like and what we don't like. And so the process is you start with keywords.
Sam:Right? So, like, let's do let's go we want it ambient. Okay. So we write us you know, write an ambient song. That didn't hit.
Sam:Okay. Let's go you know? And just you keep going through all the keywords, but you write those keywords down. And, eventually, as a team, you come together and you agree on, like, okay. This palette of keywords works.
Sam:Now let's start trading Spotify lists. Right? Mhmm. And so you're sending influences back and forth to each other, and, you know, and then I'm sending demos and doing all that. Mhmm.
Sam:It takes time, bro. It takes time. So that's one of the reasons I loved working on the project with you was we had enough time to go through kind of the case study, like, you know, and, also, just the scrutiny, like and what the other the other important part that I like to do in the beginning of musical branding is identify right away who are the key holder. Like, who's who am I really dealing with? Because sometimes when I've worked with agencies in the past, I don't know who I'm actually working for.
Sam:It's like a secretary to the secretary to the, you know, the producer or whatever. Mhmm. And I really wanna get in people's heads. I'm not even thinking about music at that point. Mhmm.
Sam:You know? I'm thinking about what influences you, and what's gonna be success here. And I do that not just to kind of approach things as, like, a time investment, you know, consideration Mhmm. Because I I usually we usually hire out. There's usually multiple composers working on a certain project together.
Sam:So we do have to be mindful of that. But I really wanna know, like, what gets them going because, you know, your client and you get you know, that BioProject, you guys work there. You have the knowledge and the best idea, and I'm I'm the new player a little bit. And so I really wanna get myself and our team into that ecosystem of what works for the brand. So
Dan:Yeah. Totally. So it sounds like kinda what you're describing. I mean, the 2 things I'm taking away and what I took away from working with you there was, 1, the importance of getting key stakeholders in the room at the same time. And 2 Yeah.
Dan:Just the process of building what I've always referred to as the sonic palette, which is basically just kind of the set of everything that goes into sound, whether it's instrumentation and rhythm to the the different genres that you could play around in. And over time, you guide like a painting comes together and the painting might have really warm tones or it might have really cool tones or it might be, you know, in gray scale. Like, you're also doing the same thing only in sound.
Sam:Yeah. It is. It's a painting for sure. And both, like I said, visual and audio, it's really the same thing. They just have to work together.
Dan:So let's talk a little bit about the final assets that you made while working on this project with Bible project. Can you tell me a little bit about what those assets are and kinda how they came to be?
Sam:Yeah. Sure. It was after we got everybody on the same page, after the 4 note Bible project, we started digging into more, like, what genre should this be and what kind of sounds are working. Pretty quickly, I realized this needs to sound clean. It needs to sound and it's okay to sound digital, but also kind of experimental.
Sam:Mhmm. We kinda use the term cool elevator music because it was gonna be dialogue over the top of of it. We don't wanna distract from the actual content Right. That's being said, but we wanted it to sound cool and use those types of sounds. And so we kinda landed on, like, a digital slash there's a little bit of rocky stuff from there, but it's kinda more chill wave, but upbeat, I would say.
Dan:Right.
Sam:But, one of the things I love about it is I've never done anything like that before. It was a conglomeration of all the keywords that came through.
Dan:Yeah. I remember one of our primary influences was the German DJ, Ulrich Schnauss. I remember when you and I Oh, yeah. Hit on him, and we both are big fans of his style. Okay.
Dan:So I wanna play a couple of things. So you've mentioned the logo and kind of what we're calling the sonic logo in this case is the 4 note signal to a listener that this is the brand that you're hearing. And this is something that many brands who have an online presence are interested in doing. Whether that's Intel, which is probably the most famous sonic logo of all time, or even like a James Bond. James Bond has a sort of a signature sound.
Dan:Right? So this is this video, Sam, when the sonic logo rolled out, it's also when my project launched their app. And this is the very first time that you ever heard the logo, that the audience ever heard the logo. So I just wanna play that real quick and then get your reaction.
Speaker 3:Hey. It's us, Bible project. You probably know us from our short animated videos that explain the literary design and structure of the Bible. Now, we wanna help you learn how to read the Bible while you actually read the Bible. And develop skills that help you see how the bible is one unified story that leads to Jesus.
Speaker 3:So join us on a reading journey through the bible, reading in large sections that we call movements. This app is free because of the generous support of people like you. Thank you for being a part of this with us.
Sam:Did you get it? Yeah. I got it. It's clean. It's calming.
Dan:Totally.
Sam:And, yeah, those are the words that come to my brain, I guess.
Dan:Yeah. The four notes
Sam:Oh, this
Dan:go with the you know, just go with the 4 the 4 syllables in bible project like we mentioned earlier. There's a little bit of kinda mnemonic device there. Here's also, like, another rendition of it that was done on a different video later.
Speaker 4:John's water baptism is a symbol of change, and Jesus' baptism truly changes people.
Dan:I love both those examples because they basically just showcase the flexibility of that piece of work. I'd love to just get your thoughts on that.
Sam:Yeah. I mean, the I think the timing's a little bit different. One fades down. It's different sounds, but I love the simplicity of it. Again, this is what I would say, and a lot of companies kinda wanna complicate it.
Sam:That's why I love doing musical branding, honestly, more than film composing. You just get right to the bones. Like, just call it what it
Dan:is. Yeah.
Sam:And so I would love it that it's you know? Because, obviously, that's not we didn't invent those notes. Mhmm. But it fits for Bible project. If the people hear that Mhmm.
Sam:If it resonates and reminds them of Bible project, then we gotta win. You know?
Dan:Okay, Sam. So last question. What do you think is somebody's biggest takeaway that they should consider if they're thinking about sonic branding?
Sam:I would say pretend like you're a detective or an investigator. Get to know your client. You know? Get to know everything about it. Research before you even start thinking about the music.
Sam:Get to know the people. Get to know the culture, the community, and let kinda everything stem from there first. And then listen, send mock ups, and I would say be prepared to be vulnerable. Be prepared to say, you know, or hear, hey. That's a nope.
Sam:Try again. And have thick skin. Just keep going and stay with it. That that would be the core. I think everything stems from there first, and then you just keep grinding it out.
Sam:And once you realize the way together with your client, you'll produce something that's you not only unique, but something that you love too. You know? Like, I like to tell the guys that I work with, when you're making music, you guys know the notes. You know how to play the instruments. Now it's time to break the rules, and that's what it's about.
Sam:It's about being creative and breaking those rules.
Dan:So what do you think like, so for a company or an organization that is considering Sonic branding, what do you think is just, like, one simple thing that they can just walk away from this from this conversation with?
Sam:I think nowadays, everybody kind of expects audio and video you can easily make even an Instagram post now. And I'm not just talking about audio, but music. Music is expected as well. And so if you have a company out there and you have a great logo or maybe a YouTube video or maybe you have a 1,000 of of them, maybe you're a bigger company. Having that that musical definition is key.
Sam:I would say it's expected. I think everybody does that. Even the people on Instagram are kind of branding themselves with or Twitch or whatever it is. There's so much content online, and it's so easy now to grab a piece of music and say, hey. This sort of defines me.
Sam:Well, as a company, if you're not doing that, you're just a billboard alongside of the freeway pretty much.
Dan:Okay. Well, hey, that's it. Thanks for joining us for this episode. If you have any questions about Sonic branding or podcasts in general, we'd love to chat. You can find us at gumaudio.com.
Dan:Man, I wanna thank Sam again for coming on. I also wanna thank Ulrich Schnauz who will never listen to this podcast, but, that guy has influenced so much of my musical taste and my Sonic branding talent and taste. Also, I wanna say thank you to Bible Project for, being a case study here. So, that's it. Good luck and shalom.