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Hey there, fellow real estate investors, FIRE enthusiasts, and tax aficionados! Welcome to "Real Estate is Taxing" – your go-to weekly podcast for all things real estate taxes, hosted by Natalie Kolodij, EA- Real Estate Tax Strategist and dry humor extraordinaire.
Each week, we're breaking down complex tax topics into bite-sized, understandable explanations, with no regard for how many obscure references it takes to get there.
So that was my excitement for
the week, and I know it might
not sound exciting to everyone.
But it was at a tax conference, so
that's pretty peak for exciting.
But all of that aside.
This week, the topic I want to talk
to you guys about is something that
there is so much misinformation on.
It's something that's over simplified,
and it is something that we are
seeing a huge uptick in audits.
So all of these things combined,
there needs to be more solid
information out there about this topic.
I received some messages asking
about it after the last podcast.
I teach about this and almost
every conference where I speak.
Today, we are going to talk about
the short-term rental loophole.
As a starting point, I hate
that it's called a loophole.
That to me implies we're doing something
like shady or kind of skirting the
rules and that's not happening at all.
There is just wording in the tax code that
allows for a circumstance where short-term
rentals can be more preferential tax wise.
That's all it is.
If you haven't listened to my
no reps, no problem episode.
I would go back and listen to that.
It's going to explain a little
bit more for kind of a foundation.
But just as a recap.
Normally long-term rentals
are passive, passive income.
What this means is the
losses related to them.
Are subject to certain limitations.
Basically, if your income is under a
hundred thousand dollars, you can only
use $25,000 a year of passive losses.
If it's over a hundred, you start
to lose out on being able to
use those losses against your W2
income or your business income.
Once your income is above $150,000,
you can no longer use any of
your passive losses for the year.
Against your other income types.
So it won't reduce your W2 or your
business income or anything else?
No matter how big the loss is.
So all that said a lot of investors get
really frustrated with their long-term
rentals, because if you put in a ton of
money, if you have a bad year, whatever
the case, and you generate a large loss.
You may not be able to receive a benefit
from it in that specific year, right?
The losses never go away.
It carries forward.
It can offset other passive income.
But if you spent a ton on your
rentals and you are thinking, well, at
least this will pay off at tax time.
It may not.
If your income is over 150,000.
With that frustration point is why
people are now so excited about
this short-term rental loophole.
Where this strategy stems from.
Is code section 4 69.
That is what defines what is passive, what
isn't and all of the guidelines around it.
In that code section, there are
two ideas, two key pieces that are
going to relate to today's episode.
The first one.
Says that for an activity to be
non-passive the taxpayer needs
to materially participate in it.
Material participation is
just a level of involvement.
There are seven different tests to use
to prove that you've reached that level.
You only need to meet one of the seven.
The most common ones relate to
how many hours you've put in.
Also in that code section.
It defines what a passive rental is.
It goes on to talk about the
various types of rentals and then
some kind of unique circumstances
where they may not be passive.
That is where it notes.
That an exception to a rental
being passive is if the average
guest stay is seven days or less.
So in a nutshell, if you have a
rental property where the average
length of stay is seven days or less.
And if you are materially
participating in it.
It is by definition non-passive so
there's nothing questionable to that.
It is clear in the code.
So that's the starting
point to this loophole.
We can take a rental property,
meet certain criteria.
Has it been on passive?
And what that means is that you are no
longer subject to that passive loss limit.
Now, no matter how high
you are in commands.
You can use the losses generated from
your qualifying short-term rental.
So, this is huge, right?
This is incredibly exciting for people.
And it gets better.
The next piece to this.
Is that you can pair this
with a cost segregation study.
This is typically the
other part of the loophole.
What a cost segregation study does.
Is, it allows an engineer
to look over your property.
And instead of depreciating, just one
building across 27 and a half or 39 years,
what a study does is allows them to break
out all of the pieces of a building.
And it's actually the more correct way.
To report depreciation.
You're not just buying one specific thing.
A building is made up of multiple things.
So what the study does is breaks
all of those things apart.
The reason this matters.
Is that on average, about 30% of the
value of a building that you buy.
Is of shorter life assets, things that we
don't expect to actually last that entire
life, that 27 and a half or 39 year life.
Things like appliances flooring
certain electrical components, window
coverings, all kinds of things that
are going to have a life of either
five, seven or 15 years instead.
This allows you to have a larger write-off
per year, So with this study, you're,
front-loading a lot of your depreciation.
You're taking it in those first years.
On those shorter life assets.
The second part to that
is anything with a life.
Of 20 years or less qualifies
for bonus depreciation.
This is something that basically says you
can deduct a big chunk of your purchase.
All in the year, it's put in service.
It applies to anything with
life of 20 years or less.
And the amount you could take is
going to depend on the year that
that asset was put in service.
So from 2017, through 2022,
it was a hundred percent.
So if you put your rental and
service during those years,
Now you do a cost segregation this year.
You would still get 100%
it's based on the year.
It goes in service.
For 2023 that dropped down to 80%.
So you could write off 80% of the purchase
price that first year for 2024 drop to 60.
And it's set to continue phasing out.
But my guess is that that will change.
So the components we have
to this strategy so far.
Are you make sure your average
guest stay is seven days or less.
You materially participate
in the property.
You do a cost segregation study,
which allows you to take a chunk
of the cost of the building, move
it all into shorter lives, giving
you a higher annual write-off.
And then you can accelerate
that even farther.
By using bonus depreciation
that will let you then take
a huge chunk of that expense.
And the very first year.
So all of these things combined.
Give us a really unique opportunity
to strategically create a large
amount of deductible loss.
In a year when it's needed.
So that can be tremendous
for tax planning.
when it comes to this
short-term rental loophole.
It's an annual test.
So for that calculation
for the average guest stay.
That is looked at on
a calendar year basis.
It is annual.
For the test of seeing if you materially
participated, that is based on that year.
It's an annual test.
This allows a short-term rental
to be somewhat of a chameleon.
We can shift the way it is
taxed by intentionally passing
or failing these tests.
The way we figure out
the average guest stay.
It's going to take the, all of the
days it was rented during the year.
And divide it by the number of
independent, separate guests
that stayed at the property.
So it's just an average.
So you can have some that are
more than seven days, as long
as you have some that are less.
And the average stay is under seven.
A common mistake.
I see with this.
Is that because this is an annual test.
If you have a longterm rental that
you are converting to short term.
That longterm stay is going
to be part of your average.
that's going to throw your average
much higher than seven days.
So if you have a longterm rental that you
are considering switching to short-term.
You are going to want to do that as close
to the start of the year as possible
The way the code is written, we need to
prove an average of seven days or less.
You need two or more stays.
This was recently reaffirmed through a
ruling that is exactly what they said.
We can not figure out an average of
something unless we have at least two.
So if you buy a rental property
that you are going to put in
service as a short-term rental.
You need to both put
the property in service.
And have at least two fair
market value, independent stays
before the end of the year.
These are the two biggest mistakes
I see, or things that people kind of
didn't expect to happen when it comes to
putting a short-term rental in service
and getting to use this strategy.
One of the pushback items
that I will hear from people.
Is that they don't want to
manage a short-term rental.
It's more work, right?
They can often be more work.
There's more turnover.
You have to deal with furnishing.
You're dealing with a lot more
people throughout the year.
And if you want to materially participate.
That is going to be close
to impossible to do.
If you have property management.
What this means in real world terms
is that you need to manage that
short-term rental for the year.
You are wanting to
implement this strategy.
Additionally, you are going
to have to be mindful.
Of how much time is spent
on it by anyone else?
I mentioned earlier, there
are seven different rules
for material participation.
The two most common rules
that we see taxpayers use.
Are at least 500 hours during
the year on the activity.
If you don't hit that 500 hours.
The other rule that is commonly
used, says that you have spent
at least a hundred hours.
But it was also more
time than anyone else.
So what this means is that not only do
you have to track your time and be able
to prove you spent a hundred hours.
You also have to track the
time of your house cleaner.
if you have a co-host You
now need to track the time of
anyone who was spending us.
Stanzel amount of time on your property.
So that you can prove they are not
spending more time than you are.
I actually just heard about
someone who is going through an
audit specifically on this topic.
And that is the hangup.
The taxpayer is able to prove they
spent at least a hundred hours.
But on a short-term rental, if
you have guests switching weekly.
Your cleaner spends quite a
bit of time at the property.
So they are having a very hard time
proving that the cleaner did not
spend more time on the property
than the taxpayer did, and they
didn't track the cleaner's time.
So they're now going through and trying to
reconstruct that time using, you know, the
camera dates on it and the key pad log-in.
And trying to reconstruct it and hopefully
prove that the taxpayer had more time.
I actually spent a few hours on a
phone call with a friend of mine who
is also a real estate tax strategist.
And what we are both seeing is an
increase in audits related to this
and that it tends to be related to.
Proving the time and proving
those cost segregations.
So it doesn't make the
strategy any riskier, as long
as you're doing it correctly.
You will be good.
So all of that said it doesn't
make this a risky strategy.
It doesn't make it something
you shouldn't consider.
It just means that what you're hearing
on social media, where all you are
told is by a short-term rental average
day of seven days and materially
participate, you can take all your losses.
There's more to it.
And now that it's being looked
out a little more closely, you
want to make sure you are crossing
your T's and dotting your I's.
The checklist of things you are going
to want to do to make sure that you do
not get it handed to you in an audit.
You're going to want to make sure
that you can prove an average
guest stay of seven days or less.
By having at least two qualifying
stays before the end of the year.
If you have your friends stay there
and they're not paying you for it.
The other big thing.
Is proving your material participation.
That means you are going to want to track
all of your time spent on that property.
And ideally prove that you spent at
least 500 hours on it during the year.
If you really can't hit 500 hours.
You are going to want to also track.
The time of anyone else who is working
on or involved with that property.
Another caveat to this is
with material participation.
You can not include investor hours.
So the time you spend looking at
financials, writing checks, kind
of the in-office unrelated to the
direct day to day of the property.
Those don't count.
So really make sure that you're
documenting all of this accurately
and on a continuous, ongoing basis.
Because I will say after reading hundreds
of court cases, Any case related to ours.
Whether that's material participation
or real estate professional.
There's a couple things where it
always gets thrown out in court.
The first one is not having a log.
If you have no log whatsoever,
you can't prove anything.
That's obviously going
to shoot you in the foot.
The second, most common thing.
Is if you have a log.
But it seems wrong or like you falsified
or that it's just not super believable.
It's kind of like once they've determined.
One part of it isn't reliable.
The whole rest is thrown out.
So you want to make sure
that you not only have a log.
But that it is sensible
and accurate and ongoing.
You want to make sure that if you
are going to say that you qualify to
write off a hundred thousand dollars.
That you are willing to take the extra
15 minutes a month to prove that.
So it is a great strategy.
It is a fantastic way to create
a large loss in a specified year.
A lot of people.
We'll by default.
Do a cost segregation study and
qualify the property is non-passive
in the year they acquire it.
And that may be the best of your to do it.
It's the easiest from
a reporting standpoint.
Because when you do a cost
segregation study, we can just set
up depreciation with those amounts.
However.
From a tax planning standpoint, it
might not always be what's best for you.
If the year you put that
property in service.
And it qualifies for a
non-passive short-term rental.
If in that year, your income
is much lower than, you know,
what's going to be the next year.
You might want to wait until the following
year to do a cost segregation study.
And then in that following year,
you will have to materially
participate and have that average
guest stay of seven days or less.
If you can have a much larger benefit
from the same amount of deductible loss.
Then you might want to
save it for that year.
When you do a cost segregation study.
You can do it at any point.
It does not have to be during the year.
The property is placed in service.
And you can do it in any later year.
The longer it's been the less benefit
it has because you're chipping
away at that depreciation already.
So if it's 20 years in,
you don't have a lot left.
But if it's your two or your three.
Absolutely look at which of
those years will that large
amount of lost most benefit you?
It might not be the current year.
If you wait and do it in a later year.
For taxes, you need to include
form 31 15 with your tax return.
The reason we can pick
the year we take the loss.
Is that if you are changing depreciation,
You don't go back and amend.
So if you put a property in
service in 2020, and this year
you do a cost segregation.
You don't go back and amend
those past few years tax returns.
You file form 31 15 with your current
near return, and you are allowed
to take the loss adjustment that
depreciation adjustment for the expense.
In the current year.
So even if the property was put in
service several years ago, You can
do a cost segregation study now.
And you would get the write off
on the current year tax return.
The deadline for doing a cost
segregation study and having
it included on a tax return.
It's just the filing
deadline for that tax year.
So you would just need to complete the
study by April 15th or October 15th.
If you file an extension.
So there's a great planning opportunity
here to choose when you use that loss.
And to figure out if the ease of doing
it first year is actually worth it.
Or if it's worth it to
save it for a later year.
Again, you don't go back and amend.
We can't go backwards
and amend appreciation.
The only time that that's an option
is if only one year has been filed.
So, for example, if you're
listening to this right now and
you already filed your 2023 taxes.
And you had a new property in 2023.
If you did a cost segregation study.
At this point, you would have
the choice of either amending 20,
23 and changing the depreciation
because it's only been one year.
The way depreciation works.
Is, if you have reported a
method, if you've sort of said,
this is how we're doing it.
The way you establish that method
is by doing it two or more years,
you have established a pattern.
You've set that this is what you're doing.
You didn't change your mind.
If it's only been one year, they
don't consider that set yet.
So, if you had a new rental in 2023, you
could go back and amend 23 to add the
cost segregation study two that year.
If it would have more benefit to you.
Otherwise for years, 20, 24 and
forward, you could do a cost
segregation study in any of those years.
You would take the expense adjustment
in the current year's tax return.
You would file 31 15 and you
would have what's called a 4 81 a.
Adjustment on schedule E.
So you have a lot of planning
opportunity with short-term rentals.
This is why Hearing about the short-term
rental loophole has become incredibly
popular and it's a fantastic tax strategy.
I love this and I implement
this with a lot of my clients.
All I'm here to tell you is make
sure you're doing it correctly.
You just don't want to kind of
skirt the edges and do the high risk
things because it's not worth it.
Right.
Why open up an audit for no reason?
Like I mentioned earlier because
it's a year to year test.
Even if you're someone who's sitting there
thinking, this sounds great, Natalie, but
I don't have time to manage a property.
I don't want to deal with that.
All of my properties are fully managed.
I'm hands-off.
That is what I have always been
taught to do as an investor
is it's not worth my time.
I understand that.
It's a year to year test.
If you had the potential to take.
A hundred thousand dollar
loss on your taxes this year.
Do you think you could deal with
managing a property for one month?
Could you try to buy a property
to use as a short-term rental?
For only the month of
December of this year.
Making sure that you put in the hours,
making sure that the average stay there's
at least two that are seven days or less.
At the end of the year, that test resets.
So even if you buy your property late in
the year, As long as you can meet that
100 hours and more time than anyone else.
Or that 500 hours.
And you can prove two or more stays
with an average of seven days or less.
You can have that rental qualified
as non-passive for that year.
Then January 1st.
If you want to change it over to a
longterm rental where you want to hand
it off to be fully property manage
where you're not involved anymore.
That's fine.
This strategy allows us to
take a decent amount of loss,
typically in a single year.
That's what we're doing.
If you don't need that
large loss in one year.
So you are not using bonus depreciation.
You just say, you know what.
I do like the idea of taking 30% of the
cost of this building and having it across
these first five, seven and 15 years.
I never keep properties
longer than 10 years.
So that really lines up.
That works well for me, that's
going to get me to an amount of tax.
I'm happy with.
Then you would need to keep it non
passive for all of those years.
And then if you switch it back to passive
the next year, there's no clawback.
So if it is non-passive and you
take a huge loss in one year.
And literally the next year, a month
later, you say, actually, we're
going to sign a year long lease.
This will be a passive rental again.
You don't have to pay anything back.
There's no reprimand.
There's no provision that says,
oh, well, since you didn't keep
it short term for at least this
amount of time, it doesn't qualify.
It's an annual test.
The last item that I will touch
on related to short-term rentals.
Is the depreciable life.
So this catches a lot of people off guard.
Like I said, we get to depreciate
property at either 27 and a half years.
If it's residential.
Or 39 years, if it's
non-residential now tax terms.
Are almost always going to be
different than lending terms.
So a lot of people are going to look
at a single family house and say
that is residential all day long.
For taxes, it may or may not be.
If you have a single family house, but you
are using it to run a business out of you
run a hair salon in the whole property.
That is a commercial use of
the property for tax purposes.
Because a short-term rental.
Does not meet the defining
factor of a rental property.
It falls out of the standard depreciation
life for being a residential rental.
Residential rental would
be 27 and a half years.
And again, there's an
exception in the code.
In 1 68.
There's a note that this excludes
properties that are basically
used on a transient basis.
So this is going to apply to hotels
and motels and things like that.
And transient basis is typically
looked at as under 30 days.
So if you are meeting the seven day or
less criteria, your property is definitely
being used on a transient basis.
And your depreciable life
is going to be 39 years.
If you have a valid short-term rental.
It is treated as a commercial
property for depreciation.
Because we have pulled it out of the
defining factors for being residential.
That being said.
There's even more unique opportunity
here for depreciation, because some
of renovations, depending on when you
buy, if it's in service, what kind
of the timing of how this happens?
You might have qualified
improvement property.
That is also 15 years, which
also allows bonus depreciation.
If you have a property that switches
between long-term and short-term.
Your depreciable life is
going to switch with it.
If you had it as a long-term rental
for years and you were depreciating
it over 27 and a half years.
But for this year, you
switch it to short-term.
You will only change the life.
2 39 years from this point forward.
something that gets asked pretty often.
Is if I am changing.
From long-term to short-term.
Do I need to file form 31 15, Natalie.
You just told me if we try to change
depreciation after two or more
years, I have to file this form.
That is true.
If what is changing is the
method of depreciation.
If it's the same activity, but we want
to change the way we are depreciating it.
Then we have to file a 31 15.
If the actual activity is what
changes, the method of depreciation
is allowed to change with it.
Similarly, if you have a primary
home that you're living in.
You don't get to depreciate it.
It's personal, not a business asset.
No depreciation.
However, as soon as you switch it over
to being a rental property, Now you
do get to depreciate it because now
it is a qualifying business asset.
The activity is what changes.
So the amount or how you'd appreciate it.
Changes to match up.
So when we switched from a long-term
rental that has 27 and a half years.
To a short-term that has 39 or vice versa.
The life is allowed to change with it.
You just changed the depreciable
life from that point forward.
And you recast it.
You do not need a 31 15.
If you are switching back and forth.
From long-term to short-term rental.
And one quick mention on mid-term rentals.
There is another circumstance
where rentals can be non-passive
and kind of the same.
Area of the code.
And that is if the stay the average
guest stay is 30 days or less.
And you provide significant
personal services.
Now here's the hangup.
Significant personal services.
Is part of code 4 69, which lets
us say passive or non-passive
however, the definition of
significant personal services.
Is almost identical to the
definition of substantial services.
Which is what determines if a property
is subject to self-employment tax.
So if you are doing a 30 day or
less rental, And you are providing.
Significant personal services
slash substantial services.
There's almost exact overlap.
These are going to be services
to improve the experience of
the guests during their stay.
So think of a hotel.
This does not include services
provided in between stays.
Cleaning in between guests.
Does not subject a property
to self-employment tax.
Providing items does not subject a
property to self-employment tax providing.
Supplies onsite.
If you provide some coffee, pods or
toilet paper that does not subject
a property to self-employment tax.
The only thing that is going to
convert your property from being non
passive, which is still reported on
schedule E most short-term rentals.
Go on schedule E 98%.
I would say.
Non-passive on schedule E.
The only time it moves over
to schedule C is if it is
subject to self-employment tax.
And the only time a rental is subject
to that self-employment tax is if you
are providing those substantial services
or those significant personal services.
These are going to be services
during the guests stay.
Not things outside of it.
So if you have a maid who comes
in and cleans the unit every day,
while the guest is staying there.
If you offer a room service where
you'll deliver food to their room.
If you offer a hotel shuttle where
you will pick them up from the airport
and bring them to your property.
If you provide any kind of lessons
onsite, you do fishing lessons or hiking
or swimming or anything like that.
If a verb is occurring, it has
to be a verb during the time the
guest is renting the property.
it has to be something of
a pretty substantial value.
And it has to be occurring while the guest
is there and to increase their experience.
So this is another one of those
really common misconception points.
And this is where I see it being taught
incorrectly on the professional side.
There's a fair amount of tax educators
who get mixed up on this and want you to
put the short term rentals on schedule C
because they believe providing anything
is a service and that's not the case.
If it is not happening while the guest
is legally entitled to the unit, if
it is not increasing their experience
while they are staying in the unit,
if you are not doing something with
a verb, while that unit is rented.
It still stays on schedule E and it
is still non-passive very rarely do I
see a rental with services at a high
enough level to move, to schedule C
and be subject to self-employment tax.
The same thing falls into place with the
30 day or less acception to being passive.
If you're saying my property
is rented for 30 days or less.
And I'm providing significant
personal services.
So it is non-passive
and I can use my losses.
That is true.
But you will now.
Almost always.
Have to move it to schedule C and also
pay self-employment tax on any income.
So be cautious there because it's a
little bit of a double-edged sword.
Now.
One of the last notes that I'll
kind of leave off on with this.
Is.
What is the downside to having
the rental on schedule C if that's
what you've been doing, I've
heard this from a lot of people.
We didn't know we were putting
it on schedule C, but it turns
out it shouldn't have been there.
It's just non, passive.
And non-passive is not the same
as subject to self-employment tax.
And only activities that are
subject to self-employment tax.
Go on, schedule C there's a couple
exceptions there specifically stated.
This isn't one of them.
So if a property has
been on, see incorrectly,
If you had income on that property.
And you were paying self-employment tax.
You didn't have to that wasn't qualified.
You did not need to pay
that extra 15.3% tax.
The other bigger concern I have.
Is because this was taught so heavily
for a few years, because there was this
misconception that it should go on.
See most of the time.
If it didn't really qualify to be on
schedule C if what you just had was
a non-passive short-term rental that
should stay on schedule E you weren't
doing any kind of substantial services.
If you use that schedule C income
to fund a retirement account.
It wasn't valid.
You are only allowed to fund
retirement accounts with earned income.
And rentals, even if non-passive
are not earned income, it has
to be income paid out of income.
That is subject to payroll
tax self-employment tax.
So if you incorrectly had a
short-term rental on schedule C.
Take a look at this
review, your prior returns.
And see what the big picture impact was.
Did you pay tax for no reason?
Did you fund a retirement account
when it really didn't qualify for
you to fund it and talk to your tax
professional about sort of the risks
of what has happened or the potential
benefits of amending to fix it?
Or the risks of not amending to fix it.
And find out what the correct
steps would be to correct it
and move it over to schedule II.
If that is the case.
So that is everything I have for you guys.
I know that this is a lot of information.
There is.
Like I said a lot of nuance around this
loophole that is often over simplified.
And I just want to make sure that even
if you get this great tax advantage
today, It doesn't end up coming back to
bite you four or five years from now.
So that's my summary for you guys.
I hope that you found this helpful.
one final run-through of what you should
shouldn't be doing for your short-term
rental and what this loophole means.
If you rent the property for an
average stay of seven days or less.
And if you materially participate,
it becomes non-passive.
This means losses at creates can be
deducted against your other income types
and you don't have that standard limit.
The only limit you can run into
is an excess business loss limit.
Step two.
Is that you do a cost segregation
study, which pushes a large
amount of your depreciation
expense into those first years.
And that gives you a much higher
write-off in each of those years.
You can take this even farther
by applying bonus depreciation,
which will give you a large amount.
In the first year, between 160%.
Depending on what year the
property went into service.
And then kind of the last note to this.
Is make sure you are.
Dotting your I's and crossing your T's.
Track your hours.
Track your cleaners hours, make
sure you're not fluffing up your
hours or using investment hours.
And make sure that if you are doing
a cost segregation study, Unless you
absolutely have to pay for a full study,
go to an actual cost segregation from.
Typically I recommend to
avoid the DIY version.
Whenever possible a lot less accurate,
you're going to get a lower result
and they're a much higher audit risk.
We've even seen them disallowed.
So that is my recap for you guys.
Fantastic tax strategy.
Absolutely worth looking at.
Make sure you look at
it with some foresight.
Look at the next few years.
When to implement it, how it's
going to benefit you the time you
transition and make sure that you
are putting everything in place.
So that if this has ever looked at,
if you ever have to prove that you
absolutely deserved that hundred
thousand dollar expense, that
you got to write off this year.
That they have no reason to
question it or try to take it away.
So I hope you guys found this helpful.
If you have any additional questions,
You can find me on social media.
I'm R E tax strategist on Instagram.
And you can find me at
Natalie Claudy on Facebook.
Additionally, please
like share and subscribe.
And reach out with any other topics that
you want to hear on a future episode.
Thanks for listening.
And I will chat with you guys next week.