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We cover topics on physical and mental healing, health, happiness, growing wealth and living wise in a world that often sabotages you.
From Health to Wealth with topics covering Cradle to Grave. We got you.
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[Mary Meyer]
Welcome to Healthy, Happy, Wise, Wealthy, the podcast where we talk about how to make our lives happier, wiser, and wealthier, but first it all begins with our health. I am your host, Mary Meyer.
Hi everybody, welcome back to Healthy, Happy, Wise, Wealthy. We have with us today Haran Bhakta of Inside Ownership Index, so thank you for being here. Before we start, I want to say we have a podcast sponsor, Mindiii, M-I-N-D-I-I-I, which is basically everything in the IT background that you got to have for your businesses to run. They can pretty much do it all, full stack websites and all the IT stuff that I honestly don't understand too much, but they make it happen.
I feel like a lot of us don't understand IT very much. Probably similar to what you're doing.
[Haran Bhakta]
Yeah.
[Mary Meyer]
So for sure.
[Haran Bhakta]
I don't understand IT either.
[Mary Meyer]
Yeah, so Inside Ownership Index, so today we're talking about basically the stock market and investments, and so you guys do things differently from what I'm seeing on the website and I'm going to have you explain this because I'm sure you'll do a better job than I could do, try and just see what you do on the website, but you're following the owners of the businesses and the leadership and kind of following how they're investing. Is that a good overview?
[Haran Bhakta]
Yeah, well, not exactly how they're investing. It's more so how much they own of the company they lead.
[Mary Meyer]
That makes sense. Yeah. Okay, so when someone works with you and you take over their investment profile, what changes do you usually make with that in mind?
[Haran Bhakta]
Yeah, so I don't actually work with individuals. I work with financial advisors, so what we created is an ETF, an index fund ETF.
[Mary Meyer]
That's interesting. So tell everyone what that is for anyone who doesn't know what an ETF is.
[Haran Bhakta]
Sure, an ETF is an exchange-traded fund. It's basically an index fund, so there's a lot of low-cost ETFs out there. There's also actively managed ETFs, which means they're not index funds, but someone's actively picking stocks within the ETF.
So you could purchase an ETF just like you purchase a regular stock, except this ETF attracts a group of stocks versus just one. Yeah, and the most famous ones are, for example, Vanguard S&P 500. So you could buy all 500 companies within the S&P 500 by buying just one stock, and typically they're very low-cost to do that, so you could brought exposure to the stock market.
For those people who don't know how to pick individual stocks, to be honest with you, most professionals, including me, don't know how to pick the best stocks over a very long period of time, and we're just better off buying a passive index fund.
[Mary Meyer]
Okay, that makes sense. So what you do is different from what is normally done on the S&P?
[Haran Bhakta]
Correct. The S&P 500 is essentially the 500 largest companies in the United States, and the way they decide how much to put in each one of those 500 is by size. So the S&P 500 is what's called market cap weighted, meaning that the bigger the market cap, market capitalization, the more they invest in those companies.
I created something, a similar concept, but different in terms of how much we allocate to each company, we allocate more when the leadership of those organizations own more. So we proportionally allocate to those companies based on their ownership. So the idea is we want skin in the game, we want symmetry, we want accountability.
We want to invest in companies where leadership really cares because their own money is on the line. And yeah, and by doing that, we figured out that the group also has performed better over a very long period of time.
[Mary Meyer]
Well then that makes a lot of sense. So on your website, I was reading that that isn't how it seems like that's how it should be done. But what I was reading is that it isn't.
So, for example, if someone who owns a company sells their share, that is not included, like the billionaire class, whatever they do is not included.
[Haran Bhakta]
Right. So this is called free float adjustment. So this is what the S&P 500 does.
So I could tell you how I thought of the idea and incorporate that with that adjustment. So I'm a huge Warren Buffett fan and I've been reading everything he puts out for a very long time. I've attended every annual Berkshire meeting where about 40,000 people go and see him speak and ask him questions.
I've been attending that live since 2017 and I invested a lot when I was working with individuals and myself. I purchased a lot of Berkshire Hathaway for my clients and for myself. And in 2024, I was at the meeting.
And this is the first meeting without Charlie Munger because he had passed away. So I just kind of had it in the back of my mind, some kind of fear. What am I going to do with my Berkshire shares when Warren Buffett dies?
And I'm sitting there thinking, I don't think the economics of the company could be as good without Warren Buffett. I mean, he created the company. People sell their companies to Berkshire because they want Warren Buffett as the owner.
So it's like the opportunities they get also, the future opportunities also come from Warren Buffett's leadership. And Greg Abel, the new leader, he might be great, but he's not going to get those type of opportunities. So anyway, I'm sitting there actually afraid.
And someone asks Warren Buffett a question in the middle of the meeting. And that's when it hit me. The S&P 500 will actually be buying more Berkshire Hathaway when Warren Buffett dies.
And that's because the S&P 500 is what's called free float adjusted, meaning when they look at the size of each company, they actually exclude the shares held by controlling shareholders. So Berkshire Hathaway is a trillion dollar company, but they're only counting it as an 800 billion dollar company, and they're excluding the 200 billion of Berkshire that he owns. But when he dies, those shares will be distributed to foundations and sold ultimately and become free floating.
So the market cap will expand upon his death. And I just thought to myself, well, why would anyone want to own more Berkshire without Warren Buffett? And in fact, I would want to own far less.
And the same thing can be applied to almost any company. Why would anyone want more Tesla without Elon Musk? Why would anyone want more Amazon without Jeff Bezos?
These are great companies that these great leaders have built. So it's kind of a thought experiment to yourself. You have this great company built by great leaders.
Now overnight we go and replace all the great leaders with new people. Would you call that the same company? And would you attribute the future success to that organization without those leaders who built it?
And you can look back at history and almost every organization starts to erode once those leaders are gone. And the example I have for something that's top of mind is Nike currently. Nike is down about 50% over the last five years, five, six years since COVID when the stock market is up drastically and Phil Knight is retired completely.
And the company is going through a downturn. Same thing with Starbucks. Howard Schultz also retired.
So the best examples I have are even further back in history, which we can go through if you want to.
[Mary Meyer]
Yeah, we can.
[Haran Bhakta]
Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, what I ask people is what is the most dominant company in United States history? And when I say dominance, I mean a relative size to the next largest companies in the world.
And the answer to that is IBM. IBM in 1984 was more than two and a half times larger than the next largest company in the entire world. This is incredibly dominant.
This would be like Nvidia being a 12 trillion dollar company today, right? Because the next largest company would have to be two and a half times smaller. So this is extreme dominance.
Now, a lot of people don't know this about IBM, but Thomas Watson, Sr. was the founder in 1911, but it was actually his son, Thomas Watson, Jr. that took him public in the 50s and 60s. And he ran it as CEO until 1971. But he retired from the board in 1984 at peak IBM.
And fast forward just eight years by 1992, IBM was not even in the top 10. So you're talking about the most dominant company in the history of the United States loses its dominance in eight years once those responsible for its success have retired. Yeah.
And another example I have is Intel under Andy Grove, the longtime CEO from 1970s, you know, ten thousand dollars invested when he became CEO of Intel would be several million by the time he retired in 1998. 1998 fast forward to today, you know, it's almost zero returns. So, you know, this is this is what happens when those are responsible for success of an organization retire.
They're not the same company. Intel had 90 percent market share in the PC microprocessor business. This is the dominance that Andy Grove created.
He even wrote a fantastic book called Only the Paranoid Survive. It's about strategic inflection points of what companies go through and the decisions they have to make and staying on top. And, you know, it's a classic example of some of the big decisions they made.
They actually left the I believe is the memory market. They were making memory chips and they pivoted. And, you know, it's one of the best pivots in in corporate history.
But, you know, this is these are classic examples of what happens. The only exception I could find where a company has continued to do extremely well post founder or not post founder but post owner or or post a leadership that created this success. It doesn't have to be a founder.
But Apple had continued to do well despite Steve Jobs passing away. That's the only exception I could find. But, you know, an argument can be made.
Also, the Apple also has not innovated anything new post Steve Jobs. They've grown the iPhone business really well. They've made the iPhone better.
But, you know, they haven't made any AI investments. And I don't know if they're going to participate in the next wave of innovation to come.
[Mary Meyer]
Yeah.
[Haran Bhakta]
Yeah.
[Mary Meyer]
Very interesting. Well, it does make a lot of sense that you follow the leadership and see where they're investing. And, you know, yeah, there's some laws for insider trading.
But yeah, I don't know that that.
[Haran Bhakta]
Yeah.
[Mary Meyer]
It doesn't seem to matter. I can tell.
[Haran Bhakta]
Right. Well, yeah. And to add some clarity to that.
We're not actually following the activity. We're not following the buying or selling of stock as much. We're actually looking at the ownership.
So for perspective, Jeff Bezos has been selling Amazon for 20 years. Jensen has been selling Nvidia for 20 years. So we're not following the fact that they're selling their stock.
They're just taking liquidity as any founder has. We're we're over weighting their position in our index because they own so much of it. So it has more to do with the ownership than the fact that they're selling.
If we focused on the selling, you would miss those stocks. Well, we because they own so much of it, they represent a bigger piece of our index versus versus an S&P 500 index.
[Mary Meyer]
So you really are focused on the S&P. So tell me, you know, for people who don't know the S&P that well, I don't even know that I do. Honestly, does it change the companies that are in there?
Is there a regular?
[Haran Bhakta]
Absolutely. So every quarter, the S&P 500 is rebalanced. And I believe every year they update the position.
So there's a committee that gets together and decides what companies should be included in that 500. So it's around the 500 largest companies in the U.S. But there's some wiggle room there where they may choose one company over another with similar sizes. So what they do is try to have a rule where a company has to be profitable for a full calendar year before they include that company into the index.
All the super largest companies are all in the index as long as they're publicly traded. Some new ones that are going to be joining the index at some point are like SpaceX, Anthropic, and OpenAI. So it's very interesting.
The largest companies in the U.S. in the S&P 500 are going to be companies that were pretty much all founded in our lifetime. And when you look at other countries like Europe, if you look at the largest companies in Europe, they were all founded in the 1920s. And you could see that Europe has experienced no growth, no big innovation.
This is because it takes true ownership to innovate. All the competitive advantages that legacy companies have with size, but still, you're looking at the biggest companies in the U.S., companies that were born in our lifetime by founders who are still running them today. So this is the importance of really identifying companies where leadership, those responsible for the initial success are still there innovating.
[Mary Meyer]
Yeah. Well, that makes a lot of sense, honestly. It doesn't actually make sense that that isn't considered.
[Haran Bhakta]
Yeah.
[Mary Meyer]
So you started this EFT in ETF.
[Haran Bhakta]
ETF.
[Mary Meyer]
ETF. See? That's how little I follow this stuff, ETF.
[Haran Bhakta]
Yeah.
[Mary Meyer]
And two years ago, just two years ago?
[Haran Bhakta]
Well, the index itself that the ETF is tracking was launched two years ago in two and twenty four. The ETF itself became actively traded now. So just very recently.
So the ticker symbol for the ETF is O W N own. So it's a very easy to. Yeah.
It's a very easy ticker symbol for people to find.
[Mary Meyer]
So it's just this is brand new offering for people to get to use it. It wasn't available two years ago. It's just now.
[Haran Bhakta]
Yeah.
[Mary Meyer]
Okay.
[Haran Bhakta]
It's brand new. Yeah. The index has been around for two years that the ETF is tracking and we've been managing portfolios tracking that index for almost, you know, almost a full two years now.
But now it's available to anyone without working directly with us. So in the past, we had to manage the client portfolio ourselves and purchase the stocks for each individual client. Now anyone can go and access the strategy via an ETF.
[Mary Meyer]
Okay. Well, that's very helpful. I'm sure to a whole lot of people.
Yeah. So tell me how it's performed in the last two years versus.
[Haran Bhakta]
Yeah. Well, the market has done very. Yeah.
The market has done very well. Yeah. Inside ownership 100 has done even better than the S&P 500 over those two years since since launching it.
You know, what's interesting is going back. We also back tested it 20 years and it's not some complicated algorithm is simply looking at the ownership of the leaders and allocating the portfolio to proportionally to their ownership. So we're able to go back as far back as we can get the ownership data and we're able to get 21 years of it and we could compare that with S&P 500 and outperform the S&P 500 by basically 300 percent.
So $10,000 invested in the S&P would have produced around 700 percent over that 21 period 21 year period. So $10,000 turned into about $70,000. $10,000 same $10,000 investment in the IO 100 would have produced about $110,000.
So it's better. Yeah. Close to 300 percent more cumulative percentage points better.
But what's also interesting is now it's also more volatile. So it has bigger ups and downs through time because it has more concentration, has more exposure to some of the best companies, which makes it very concentrated. But I'd like to add that in 2008, the great financial crisis and COVID-19, what we can call those the two global catastrophic events we've had in the last 20 years, the inside ownership companies went down less than the S&P 500 did.
The S&P 500 had a worse drawdown during those two periods. So that's very interesting to me is that when you needed safety the most, it held up better.
[Mary Meyer]
Yeah. That's a good metric to look at. So with the ETFs, just if you could educate us a little bit more, is this something that someone who feels like they can do their own trading can access?
Should you be working with an investment advisor, which you probably should. But what's your wisdom on that? So if someone just is like, I'm going to do some of my own investing, can they go pick different ETFs for that?
[Haran Bhakta]
Yeah, well, it depends on why you're using a financial advisor. Now, if you're using a financial advisor to go and pick individual stocks for you and thinking that they're going to make you rich or perform better than the S&P 500 or the stock market in general, I think that's a huge mistake. Most, 90% of active stock pickers don't beat the index.
And it's a very small number that really beats it beyond 15 years. So it's almost like one out of 10 people might beat the index over a 15-year period. And it's almost impossible to tell which one of those one out of 10 will do it.
So you're much better off investing in an index fund. Now, one great thing about financial advisors is they can keep you thinking long-term, keep you invested when it's very difficult to stay invested. The market creates a lot of emotions.
The market goes up and down, and when you have periods like 2008 or COVID-19, it's very easy to make the wrong decision and sell at the wrong times. So that's the one benefit of having a financial advisor. If you can have someone hold your hand and keep you invested, that job is expensive.
So you're paying 1% per year, sometimes more with some advisors. But I would recommend not having an advisor to charge more than 1%. But if they can keep you invested, it's well worth it.
If you're able to invest and not look at it, you don't need an advisor. You could just purchase ETFs on your own and stay invested for the long term. So I think you have to know yourself, really.
Do you make emotional decisions when things get tough?
[Mary Meyer]
It seems like everybody does. Let's be honest.
[Haran Bhakta]
Yeah. So if you can hire an advisor to really keep you focused on the long term, it's honestly worth the money.
[Mary Meyer]
It just seemed like making money sometimes as a matter of, in investments, is a matter of buying when people are selling and selling when people are buying.
[Haran Bhakta]
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Although that, again, is timing the market. I like to say, you know, just keep buying, keep buying and keep buying.
And when the markets get cheap, you buy more. So right now, the market is very expensive. You may not be buying right now, but you should be holding what you already have and be allocating excess money to maybe more conservative type investments.
And when the stock market gets cheap or goes down by maybe 10, 15%, you could start adding more money in. And as the stock market gets cheaper or goes down more, you could be buying a lot more. So there is a benefit of having a financial advisor to kind of guide you through that, basically.
[Mary Meyer]
And I know there's other things financial advisors do also just to kind of be balanced in everything you need. Yeah, for sure. So if someone wants to, they're like, you know, maybe I do want to start doing some trading on my own.
Do you have any advice on how to start?
[Haran Bhakta]
Well, I would highly recommend reading Warren Buffett's letters or listening to his annual meetings. They're all on YouTube. So you can search Berkshire Hathaway annual meeting.
And I would listen to the ones in the 90s. That's where Warren Buffett was at his best. And if you can get a general philosophy on investing in stocks, if you could start treating stocks as you would maybe an apartment building that you bought, right?
When you buy an apartment building, you're worried about rents covering your mortgage and things like that. You're not seeing a price for your building available online every day. And the problem with stocks is you start seeing a price for it flashing your screen every day.
And, you know, you think of selling when it goes up a little bit and buying a little bit more if it goes down or maybe the reverse for some people. But, you know, you have to treat it like you would an apartment building and really not look at the price and really focus on how the actual business attached to that stock is doing. So is the company growing revenues and performing better than it did the year before?
Is the business getting stronger? You start paying attention to those things and not the stock price. And that's how real wealth is made because you're able to hold these stocks for a much longer time.
Real wealth is made in the stock market by holding great companies for a long time. That's how you get wealthy.
[Mary Meyer]
So with your index, if there's 500 companies in it, do you guys look at the ownership for all 500?
[Haran Bhakta]
So we look at the S&P 500, we look at the ownership of all 500, and then my index that we created will invest in the top 100 from the S&P 500 based on the top dollar value of essentially skin-to-game, so those leaders that own the most of the companies they run by dollar value.
[Mary Meyer]
So if you're invested in one of those top 100 of the 500 companies, but the leader, the owner, the one who grew it, is selling off their stock, you'll also sell that often and invest somewhere else. That's kind of how you work.
[Haran Bhakta]
That's correct. That's correct. They'd have to be selling.
I guess it depends on the company. So Jeff Bezos has been selling for 20 years, but if he sold a massive part of his Amazon shares, it would definitely be reflected in our index. Okay.
So the reason why him specifically would have to sell a massive part is we capped the ownership at 5%. So whenever a CEO owns more than 5% of their company, we just count it as 5%, because we don't want a portfolio of just Oracle and Dell, where Larry Ellison owns 40% of Oracle and Michael Dell owns 40% of Dell. So once these leaders start selling their positions below the 5% threshold, that's when we start reducing the exposure to those companies.
Most of the time, companies get excluded from the index when a CEO retires or dies. For example, FedEx CEO Fred Smith, the founder of FedEx, he passed away. So that was a rebalance of where FedEx left the portfolio because that ownership wasn't there anymore because of death.
And you get retirements as well. So for example, Warren Buffett, he's still part of Berkshire, but when he does retire from the board, we'd be rotating out of Berkshire Hathaway.
[Mary Meyer]
Okay. And he's been the kind of main guy for so long, it seems like.
[Haran Bhakta]
Oh, absolutely, yeah. A lot of people don't know how great Warren Buffett is. I could paint a perspective here.
A couple of things. If you invested $10,000 when he took over Berkshire Hathaway in 1965, I'd like to ask people to guess how much that $10,000 would be today. Do you want to try to guess?
I mean, just name a big number.
[Mary Meyer]
350,000.
[Haran Bhakta]
Almost close. It's actually $380 million. $10,000 invested when Warren Buffett took over.
$10,000 would be $380 million today. And a more interesting fact is, I actually made a video about this. If Berkshire Hathaway stock went down 99% tomorrow, just hypothetically, let's say, the stock collapsed 99% tomorrow, almost everything evaporated, you would have still outperformed the S&P 500.
So if that $380 million collapsed 99% and you had $3.8 million tomorrow, that $3.8 million is still more than what the S&P would have produced over that same timeframe. So this is how successful and a great investor Warren Buffett was. He didn't invent anything, right?
He simply allocated money across the company to different organizations that produced the wealth. So he didn't physically create anything himself. So this is why he's considered the goat and why people study his investment philosophy.
And he didn't do it by trading. He purchased stocks and held them for a very long time. And that's what created that wealth.
[Mary Meyer]
Yeah, that's great. You studied him extensively, it sounds like. Yeah, definitely.
Well, that is all really good advice. So if someone wants to start trading, so your ETF is Own. Own.
[Haran Bhakta]
Yeah, investing in the owners, investing. I like to say keep the trust with the owners. So, you know, there's huge accountability problem within the S&P 500.
So right now, BlackRock, Vanguard, and State Street are becoming the largest shareholders of most organizations. And when you get a board and leadership who don't own any stock, there's no longer any mechanism to have them removed and replaced with maybe better leadership. It used to be done by active management.
So active portfolio managers would buy stock and vote for change. But because of S&P 500 and other passive index funds are taking extreme market share away from active stock pickers, it's creating this huge systemic problem where bad to mediocre CEOs are held in place because there's no way of getting rid of them. And the boards who don't own any stock have no incentive of rocking the cradle because they're all getting their board fees and CEOs are getting their paychecks and quarterly bonus.
And no one there to kind of rock the ship, right? No one wants to throw rocks in a glass house. So S&P 500 is creating this huge systemic problem and I believe that we solve that systemic problem if we could take more market share away.
We will reward companies where leaders own meaningful stakes and not invest in companies where there's no ownership.
[Mary Meyer]
Yeah, that seems super wise. And I think no one really likes what you described with the CEOs and boards that just get paid no matter what.
[Haran Bhakta]
Exactly, yeah. I like to compare a higher CEO to a zoo animal and owner operator CEO to a wild animal. So for example, a zoo animal gets fed every day whether it successfully hunts or not.
In the same way, a higher CEO will get his quarterly paycheck and quarterly bonus and very often a golden parachute. But a wild animal now has to go hunt for his food and if they don't successfully hunt, they starve. And the same way an owner operator feels the pain of mistakes, they feel it in their own net worth.
And that's what you want. You want them, the leaders you invest in, you want them to feel the pain of mistakes. Otherwise, how do you learn, you know?
[Mary Meyer]
Right. And you want a leader who's actually leading in that one that's...
[Haran Bhakta]
Exactly, exactly. It's good for them. Yeah, so it's not just about rewarding CEOs with options if they're successful.
You want them to also feel the pain of failure. And they only feel that when they have their own money invested in the company. Yeah.
[Mary Meyer]
That seems brilliant. And really just common sense too.
[Haran Bhakta]
Yeah, it's common sense, yeah.
[Mary Meyer]
Common sense, yeah. To do that. So thank you for making something common sense for people to...
[Haran Bhakta]
Yeah. Yeah, so if you're buying index funds, you should really think about buying one with accountability, like that we created, right? One that drives accountability across the organization by alleviating that systemic problem that most index funds are creating.
[Mary Meyer]
So just in general, I know you've done a lot of investing, as you're a CFA and advising on that. So what would you suggest for when people should start investing and how much percentage of their income? Thoughts on that?
[Haran Bhakta]
Well, I think for the most part, you may need about three to four months, maybe six months of your monthly expenses in the form of cash or CDs or something, US Treasuries. Beyond that, it should all be invested. Whether it's in the stock market or other assets is up to you and your financial advisor.
But if you want to get started investing, you should do it now. The more time you have in the market, the better. And the sooner you can get started learning and participating in the market, the more time you have to compound that wealth through time.
[Mary Meyer]
I've definitely heard that. You start when you're in your 20s versus later. But if it's later, then start as soon as you can.
[Haran Bhakta]
If you have 30 years in the market, you're virtually guaranteed to have a great result. And the shorter timeframe you have, the more risk you have in the result you're going to get. But over a 30-year period, you're almost guaranteed to have a fantastic result.
The stock market has produced, over any 30-year period in history, has produced great wealth creation.
[Mary Meyer]
Yeah. What other advice do you have for us?
[Haran Bhakta]
Well, I would say one thing we didn't really cover is why index funds are so great. There was this professor out of University of Arizona State who studied all stocks across the United States over 100 years, over a century. He looked at every single stock, and what he found was only 4% of them created the entire wealth creation of the stock market, and the other 96% matched U.S. Treasury bills. So all the wealth gain came from just 4%. This is why it's so hard for individuals to pick stocks or even professionals to pick stocks, because there's really just 4% of them making all those massive gains. So the advice I could share is don't sell stocks.
Now, a lot of people know what great companies are, but most people trade out of them and they don't let those returns fully get compounded. So can you imagine buying Facebook, Apple or Amazon or Tesla or any of these great companies 10 years ago and selling them when they're up 100% or something? It's a terrible mistake.
So when you find a great business, you just have to hold on to it. For as long as those leaders are running those companies and you respect those leaders, do not sell. The people who got the richest off, let's say Berkshire Hathaway or Tesla, were not investors who studied the numbers of Berkshire Hathaway.
Those investors trusted Warren Buffett and never sold, and that's why they got extremely rich. And the same goes with Tesla. People believed in Elon's mission and invested early on in Tesla and held all the way through, and they got rich.
But it's not the people that looked at the earnings or balance sheet. I'm not saying those figures are not important, but they're certainly less important than many people have given them credit for. What is more important is the leadership, how much they own and how great they are as capital allocators.
And when they're great and they own so much of it, you could almost turn a blind eye with at least part of your savings and just put it in them and close your eyes for 20 years. As long as those leaders are good leaders and own a lot of their company, you could do that.
[Mary Meyer]
Well, that does make sense. Yeah. Well, thank you for your time today, and that's a lot of good wisdom for us and investment.
So any parting thoughts?
[Haran Bhakta]
No, take a look at my ETF or go to my website, insideownership.com. Very easy website, insideownership.com. And yeah, look for the own ETF, O-W-N.
[Mary Meyer]
O-W-N, okay. Sounds good. Thank you, Harren.
I appreciate your time today. Thanks for your wisdom.
[Haran Bhakta]
Thank you.
[Mary Meyer]
Thanks for joining us. New episodes of Healthy, Happy, Wise, Wealthy with fabulous guests drop every Thursday. Also, you can follow our socials at Healthy, Happy, Wise, Wealthy on Instagram, Facebook, or TikTok.
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