Buying A Video Production Company Out Of Liquidation: George Hughes' Story

Show Notes

George Hughes, founder of Small Films, shares his experience of starting and acquiring businesses in the video production industry. He discusses the challenges of transitioning from working in the television industry to running his own company and the importance of understanding the objectives of clients. Hughes also talks about how he acquired Maia Films, an education specialist company, during its liquidation process. He explains the negotiation process, the assets he acquired, and the impact on his business. He concludes by reflecting on the lessons learned and the potential for future acquisitions.

Takeaways

• Transitioning from working in a specific industry to running your own company requires understanding the objectives of clients and adapting to their needs.
• Acquiring a business during its liquidation process can be a strategic opportunity, but it requires careful negotiation and assessment of the assets and liabilities involved.
•  The acquisition of Maia Films has the potential to significantly increase Small Films' turnover and establish the company as a dominant player in the education content industry.
• Timing is crucial in business acquisitions, and acting quickly can help secure clients and maximize the benefits of the acquisition.
• Reflecting on the experience, being more aggressive and proactive in the acquisition process could have yielded even better results.

Connect with George on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/georgemhughes/

Connect with Barnaby on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/barnabycook/

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Creators & Guests

Host

Barnaby Cook

What is The Exit Plan: Mergers and Acquisitions for Creative Entrepreneurs?

The Exit Plan is for business owners that are interested in learning more about how to sell their business. Each episode Barnaby Cook interviews someone who has bought or sold a business - either a creative agency, or a production company. The conversation gets under the skin of why they wanted to sell, or were looking to acquire, how the deal was structured, how they agreed upon a valuation and what lessons they learnt along the way.

tell the story, ready?

Cool, okay.

Cool.

So let's go.

Yeah, if you can just start by telling me
a bit about you, that would be really

helpful.

Hold on, you're frozen.

It says.

great start.

I'm just going to open the door because
it's going to help the internet again.

Sorry, I don't have a bit of restart
there.

As I say, we've just moved house so we
haven't got everything sorted really.

The internet has been okay but if we've
got any issues just let me know.

yeah, the good thing about Riverside is it
records it locally and then uploads it.

So even if it, even if there's any freezes
or anything, it doesn't come through on

the final recording.

Okay, cool.

So yeah, if you could tell me who you are
and a little bit about your business that

would be great.

Okay, great.

So I'm George Hughes, I'm the founder of
Small Films.

We're a video production company based in
Hackney in London.

And yeah, we've been going for about eight
years, I think.

And prior to that, I worked in the
television industry for around 14 years as

a director.

So yeah, I've been in this sort of, well,
loosely speaking,

I've been in this loosely speaking content
creation media film TV for quite a while

now since 2002.

So I'm somewhat of a veteran, but I still
feel like I'm learning new things every

day.

So that's, I think that's pretty much a
summary of it.

How did it come about?

How did you setting up small films come
about?

How did you make the leap from working a
job to running a company?

Hmm.

So it was 2016 and it was an interesting
time, I think, in the video space.

I'd always been aware of the branded
content space and YouTube coming along and

just that sort of move from what was
traditionally corporate video into

something very different.

And it just looked really exciting to me.

It was something I thought this

this is the future and working in the
television industry, many ways the TV's

been on a sort of funny decline in many
senses for quite a long time.

So I was looking over at the branded
content space, thought this is something

I'd really like to get in on and just
decided to make that leap across.

I think the big thing for me was I could
see that...

There was an awful lot of content starting
to be put out and so much of it was very,

very bad.

And I thought there would be an
opportunity to take my knowledge from the

TV sector and all the sort of skills I'd
learned there and apply that to creating

content for brands.

So that was the, that was the initiative
for doing it.

And it was a pretty big step thinking
back.

I'm not quite sure how I managed to get my
head around it, but that was, that was

kind of where it all started.

And.

I think the big thing that I quickly
realized was that I perhaps slightly

naively, maybe slightly arrogantly
thought, you know, I'm a TV director, I

can easily make corporate stuff or stuff
for YouTube.

How hard can that be?

And two things I hadn't sort of
underestimated.

One was that it's not just about creating
lovely creative work.

you know, when you're doing films for
businesses, they have to deliver a result

as well.

So it was the fact that I just really did
not understand the audience that I was

working with.

I didn't really understand the objectives
of the companies that we were doing stuff

for.

So I did quite quickly learn that part,
but also that classic, which is, it's all

good and well saying you can create the
work, but how do you find the work in the

first place?

So that was the bit that I had to rapidly
school myself in was how do you find the

work and how do you run a business rather
than just being a freelance creator.

So that was, yeah, that was the big thing.

How did you get your first few clients?

Word of mouth, literally just asking
anyone and everybody I knew to try and see

if I could find any bits of work.

I suppose I was lucky in a way because I
could transition out of TV but keep

working as a freelance director.

So I could, you know, there was a sort of
slightly messy period at the beginning

where I was still doing TV jobs.

And then also finding jobs with different
people.

It would be literally like, I don't know,
someone that someone knows who says they

need a video or someone that, you know, so
and so's uncle who works somewhere who

thinks there might be something going.

And, you know, the whole thing at the
beginning for me was the origin of the

name Small Films was we're gonna do small
films for small business.

That was the idea.

And so that's what I was going after in
the first few years.

And then I realized that there was a bit
of a problem with that, which is that

small businesses don't have any money.

And I was getting in and quoting people.

I was quoting people in the same way that
I would have looked at TV budgets.

And I'm going in and sort of quoting
people, you know, like I quote them 50

grand to do a short, like two minute
video, not realizing that they're...

Total turnover was probably 300 grand and
I just didn't get it at all.

It was kind of pretty funny at the
beginning.

So made quite a lot of mistakes.

And then actually realized that where me
personally, and then as I started to build

a team, where we brought the most value
was in the, with the bigger businesses and

the slightly more advanced work.

And so that's where we started shifting
towards going after bigger clients and

bigger projects.

So talk to me a little bit about the
business now then, sort of how many team

members have you got and what type of
clients and what type of work are you

doing?

Yeah.

So we, we have a bit of a area of
specialism, two areas of specialism.

this kind of harks back to my TV days
because when I worked in TV, I also had

two areas of specialism and I always,
firmly believed that if you were

specialist, you would always get the work
would come to you.

You wouldn't have to hunt it out.

So when I worked in TV, I, I did crime.

That was one of my areas of focus.

So he's still a lot of like gang.

related documentaries and things about
serial killers and all this kind of stuff,

like the hard, really hard access,
difficult stuff.

And that was the sort of the hard hitting,
satisfying documentary side of me being

tickled, so to speak.

And then on the other hand, I had food and
drink, so basically food programs.

So I used to do more celebrity led food
shows.

So things with Gordon Ramsay and Jamie
Oliver and people like that.

And,

I found that when I was doing that, I
would get opportunities because I wasn't

too generalist.

I had an area of specialism.

So with small films, I started gravitating
towards food and drink because we had that

experience already.

So we started doing a lot of work with
some quite big brands.

We've worked with people like Aldi we had
as a client for a long time, Spa,

Supermarket.

Tilda Rice, people like that.

But then also we, on sort of another road,
we found ourselves going down with

education.

So we've always had these two branches.

And, you know, currently we're, sort of
size -wise, we're roughly around seven

full -time equivalent.

As you know, it's in this kind of world,
it's a bit of, it's a bit all over the

place in terms of how you staff.

We've got certain people who are in -house
and then others that we've got beyond

that.

We've got obviously freelancers that we're
working with.

And yeah, we've kind of, we're still doing
a lot of food and drink, but education has

become a huge focus for us.

And that's where we've been going down the
road of this company that we're going to

be talking about, which is MyFilms as
well, that we recently took over.

But yeah, a lot of education clients.

Okay.

And just from an ownership perspective, is
it 100 % you?

Okay.

I'm the sole founder, which has been in
many ways a blessing and in others it's

been really difficult.

I think that as a sole founder, you've got
some advantages.

First of all, you've only got one mouth to
feed.

That's the first thing.

There's never any arguments over what
you're doing next, apart from with

yourself, which has happened quite
regularly.

And...

I think also when you get the kind of the
agency singing and working really well,

which, which ours is at the moment, it
means you've got a little bit more in the

pot to do things with because you're not
sort of, today you're not, you're not sort

of having to share out the dividends among
lots of people.

You've got sort of bit more of a war chest
that you can build up, which I found has

been really good.

But of course being a solo founder, it has
been,

points very hard and I think it's a slower
process because you are figuring out so

much along the way.

But luckily I've got such a great support
network so on one level I've got lots of

friends and colleagues who kind of run
other agencies that are part of my network

that I rely on a lot for knowledge and
sort of just having a whinge about things.

My wife works in the business so she's our
production manager and she also does

bit of the kind of behind the scenes
business administration stuff.

So she's always there to make decisions
with.

And then just having a good team as well.

So I've got a really experienced client
services director who's very, very

knowledgeable.

And when it comes to strategy, we can
really puzzle things out.

And then I've also got an interim
financial director who keeps an eye on

what we're doing and make sure that we
stay.

profitable and that we're kind of growing
in the right way as well.

So yeah, I'm really sort of we're in a
very good place at the moment.

And I think with it's not always been that
way.

I mean, last year, last previous fight,
not last financial year, but the year

before it was very tricky, very tricky.

And we had some serious issues going on.

And

I think you do have these obviously a lot
of agencies have these blips and I know a

lot of agencies have problems around them
as well.

But luckily at the moment we're in very
good shape so that's nice for the future.

got a bit of a freeze.

Yeah.

Sorry, Froze.

So tell me a bit about this acquisition
that you've made then.

How did that come about?

Were you going out looking for companies
to buy?

I'd love to say I was, but no, it was very
fortuitous and a really, really

interesting experience and something that
I'd not come across this set up in terms

of what I'm going to discuss now before.

And it was just, I think it was a little
bit of luck.

So the way it came about was this company,
Maya Films, they are an education,

specialist, super specialist.

They've worked with over 90 universities.

They've been going for, you know, over 15
years in various forms and have an amazing

track record.

Their portfolio is phenomenal.

They're very sophisticated in terms of
their project management, their

infrastructure, all that stuff, a real
sort of grown up type of company.

And

My client services director Christian, who
I just mentioned, he's, he, so I'll start

that one again.

You have to snip that bit out.

Yeah, yeah.

Our client services director Christian, he
worked for Maya Films for many, many

years.

They used to be called Spectacom
Education.

And before that, it was part of just...

sort of a department of Spectre .com.

And so he knew them, he knew the director
and he was still quite charming with them.

And so when they started to have a few
issues going on, the director reached out

to Christian and said, look, our company
is having some problems and there might be

an opportunity here.

Would you be interested in this?

And so we entered into discussions with
them to look at whether we could sort of

step in and basically get involved in what
was happening there.

And basically what was happening was that
they had some historic debt that they

could not service.

And as a result of that, the debt was
being called in and it was just too late

for them to try and put the company on the
open market.

I think, to be honest with you,

I don't know what the debt was, but I
suspect that it would have made it quite a

messy purchase, you know, for somebody to,
because you would have had to take that

debt on.

So essentially the company was being
going, going to go into liquidation, was

going into liquidation.

So initially where we stepped in was to
actually support them in making sure that

their clients weren't left high and dry.

So initially we came in to help take over
the

projects that were midway through, and
then try and sort of see them through to

the end.

That was the initial engagement.

But then it became clear to me that
because the because there wasn't it wasn't

messy what was happening there, there was
just some debt.

That was all it was.

There weren't freelancers left high and
dry, there weren't lots of different

people owed money or anything like that.

It was quite a clean situation.

And actually, they're to to

you know, on the surface, there didn't
appear to be any reputational issues

happening there whatsoever.

So then I entered into a conversation with
the liquidator about actually buying the

company from them, which is different,
obviously, to buying a company from the

owners of the company.

It's a very different sort of way of doing
things.

And so that that was quite a long and
drawn out process of going back and forth

with them and trying to make sense at all.

But eventually, at the beginning of this
year, we managed to do a deal with them to

buy the company.

And so, yeah.

Do you know the debt in the business?

Do you know how that was accumulated and
who it was to?

I'm not completely up on that and I also
think that's done and done in many ways.

I sort of want to leave that in the past.

All I know is it wasn't anything nasty, it
was just debt that was owed and no one was

left high and dry, put it that way.

So there's no one coming banging on our
door going, what the...

know, what the devil you ask money,
there's nothing like that.

So I think it was just a case of there was
there was too much interest to pay.

And yeah.

So at what point in the liquidation did
you start talking to the administrators

then?

So it was right on the juncture point of
when it was all happening.

So with the liquidation, there is quite
strict rules involved in it.

So essentially, you can imagine it's
interesting to think of it like an agency

from an agency perspective.

But if you were to think of it like a
secondhand car dealership, you can imagine

exactly how it would work.

You know, it's...

You know, you've got debt, you know, you
no longer can service that.

Baylifts come along, they take the keys,
they lock the door, they tell you to, you

know, literally walk away from your desks
and leave.

That's kind of how you could imagine it
working with the second -hand car

dealership.

And there's assets there, aren't there?

There's the cars themselves, there's all
the computers, there's maybe the building

that they own, there's all these things.

And so then that comes under the ownership
of the liquidator.

With an agency, it's...

quite different matter because yeah, there
might be some tangible assets there, but a

lot of the value is in the, it's in the
name, it's in the brand, it's in the work

and the reputation and that sort of thing.

So it's not quite as straightforward as
that.

However, when liquidation happens,
essentially the liquidators take ownership

of the company so that now any client has
to deal with the liquidator, any

you know, the person that needs to get
paid has to essentially deal with

liquidator.

And ultimately it comes down to the owners
of the company about how they're going to

handle that.

And if they hold their head high and deal
with it in a responsible and, and, you

know, a good way, then the whole thing can
be done in a really nice, you know,

sensible fashion, because basically the
director of the company is helping that

process and making sure that everyone's
looked after.

Whereas I can imagine, you know, in
certain situations, the owner's probably

like, right, well, I'm out here and good
luck making, you know, sense of this.

So that was part of the reason that I felt
it was a good opportunity because we had

the relationship and I knew that the
director of the company was a good person,

that they would help facilitate that
transition of ownership to us and that

they would make it an easy, an easy...

an easy process for us, which they did.

So, yeah.

Maya Films was part of a group, is that
right?

And how did it, what were the, was there
any sort of untangling that needed to

happen there to sort of separate it from
the group?

Yeah.

I mean, there was, there was a little bit
of untangling.

Yes.

Because as part of a group, there was a
degree of shared resource happening

amongst that group.

So within the group, there was another
video agency, there was a studio company,

and they had shared resources, they had
shared equipment, sort of rental company

within there that they were all kind of

So there was some degree of untangling
that needs to happen.

Some of the staff even were shared amongst
the group.

So what we had to do, and this is the part
that, again, without collaboration from

the owner and without a good relationship,
that untangling would have become very

messy, because essentially we had to both
trust each other to say,

For me to say, with work that you're doing
on a project we're taking over, if there

is time and expense expended, you know,
past the point of liquidation on your

behalf, we will make good for that and we
will pay you for it because we're gonna be

collecting the invoice from the client.

And vice versa, I had to take it on trust
that they would fulfill...

work and hand it over properly once we
actually took any of the projects on.

So there was a sort of a settling up
period I guess afterwards.

But within a liquidation, the former owner
of the company cannot profit from any

future work.

So they can't basically make any money off
anything once that liquidation has

happened.

So again, it makes it sort of slightly
cleaner because you just, you're talking

about cost prices for things rather than
any markups because you're saying, well,

that, you know, this person's time was
this much and okay.

And because we're video company owners, we
all know how much people cost and it made

it sort of reasonably straightforward.

But yeah, there was definitely a little
bit of trying to figure that all of that

out.

And to be honest with you, taking the
clients on.

That's also extremely messy because you've
got to try and explain what's happened and

then you've got to go through, in certain
instances, we had to go through

procurement to kind of unravel it all and
almost like do deals to see things

completed and, you know, and also put
everything through our own.

You know, we would look at each project on
its merit and say, well, okay, this one

has, you know, they've already done the
filming for this, but they've got all the

editing left to do.

there's X amount left to bill, is that
going to be enough for us to complete this

project?

Would we need to apply to the client for
more money?

Or do we just think, let's just get it
done because we want to keep the

relationship happy?

So yeah, there was a there was a quite a
bit of that going on.

And that's why in part it took quite a
while to do.

So yeah.

So, so what did you actually buy?

What were the elements of the business
that you sort of cherry picked and bought?

So again, with the liquidation versus
buying a company from the owners, you're

not buying the limited company, you're
buying the IP and any assets.

So again, going back to that sort of
secondhand car dealership, it's a lot

easier to understand that than it is maybe
with an agency.

But in this instance, what we're buying is
any physical things like cameras,

computers,

you know, bits and bobs like that.

In this instance, there was none of that
actually, because of the structure of the

company, they were renting from an
internal part of the group.

So it was all crosshires.

so there wasn't, there wasn't anything to
kind of value there.

So it was like, fine, that's, that's okay.

So that's one thing out of the way.

But then what we're getting is getting the
brand name.

We're getting the website, getting all,
obviously all the social channels.

we're getting all of the IP.

So anything, any systems and processes,
any documents, all contracts, you know,

like all that stuff that actually it's
worth, it's worth a lot of that because,

you know, when the company's been going
for that long, it's all quite buttoned

down and it's, it's quite, you know, it's
very good systems and processes for

everything.

So we get all of that.

We get all of the,

project files and assets from past
projects.

So that's important as a video company
because if someone comes back to Maya and

says, that project you did two years ago,
we'd quite like just a little re -edit of

it.

If you don't have the project files,
that's a massive job.

If you've got the project files and the
footage, which we have the footage as

well, we can...

that quite easily and so it becomes a book
board, a simple process.

And then again with the footage as well,
we've got that so we can, any client that

comes back, we've got an ability to edit
anything they want from their past work.

So I think that's it, unless I've
forgotten something else, but essentially

that's what you're getting.

And of course you're getting the client.

black book because you're getting all of
the contacts and everybody.

So that's something that we can then start
to leverage, which we have been doing.

Okay, and any employees?

Did any employees come with?

So, Maya had transitioned to quite a
freelance model.

So, it was really interesting to actually
have a look at the way that they do their

quotes and everything.

But they had sort of three, I think three
or four maybe full -time people.

And then they were predominantly relying
on freelance directors and freelance

camera operators for most of the work.

So we have no obligation to take on those
staff, again, because we're not buying the

company.

And in this instance, actually, it didn't
really make sense to you because those

team members were absorbed into the rest
of the group.

And so they had, it wasn't like they were
left high and dry.

One person who did move on and he actually
went on to another company.

But what we have been doing is reaching
out to all of the freelancers who have

worked on the past projects, because
that's providing quite a neat way of us

fulfilling the extra works coming in.

Because obviously, we've got finite
resources and we're only a small team.

So already we've had some doubling up of
schedules where we've got Maya films

projects going on and small films projects
going on and we can't fulfill them all.

So...

actually that works really well because
these freelancers that were working on

projects were part of the woodwork, it
wasn't like they were just randomly hired

in here and there.

One director and one DOP had done a vast
majority of most of the work so we've

already struck up a relationship with them
and looking to get them in on things.

So that's working quite well.

And okay.

And how did you go about kind of agreeing
a price for all of this?

Because in my understanding, in an
insolvency situation, it's often sort of

pennies on the pound that you offer.

So did you kind of take any independent
advice in terms of what to offer or were

you just guided by the insolvency
practitioners?

I did take independent advice from quite a
few people actually, because I've never

done anything like this before.

I didn't have a clue, really.

I know that when you buy a company, people
are trying to value it on multiples of

EBITDA and hopefully getting four or five
times what the profit is.

But I thought that you can't surely value
it on that.

Though the liquidators, basically the
liquidators bring in

They're kind of like chartered surveyors
really, who value the company.

And he was trying to do it on multiples of
profit because it was a profitable

company.

You know, it had a high turnover, really,
you know, decent turnover, profitable.

So he was saying, look, you're buying a
profitable company here and you know, you

should be paying multiples of, you know,
profit.

And he was trying to get quite a large
amount of money for it, to be honest.

a lot more than I thought, you know, was
right for it.

So I took quite a lot of advice.

I spoke to, I spoke to one person who
works in &A.

I spoke to our financial director.

He's experienced this sort of thing.

Our bookkeepers actually had quite a bit
of experience in this sort of thing.

I spoke to a few friends who also had some
ideas.

And I thought, what I do know,

is this is a negotiation like any
negotiation and it's one horse race.

That's the advantage that I have.

I know it's one horse race because I know
that they're not talking to anybody else

at this point.

And if you take this to the open market,
which they could, they could put it out

there to, you know, anybody to see if
anyone would like to buy it.

I say, are they realistically going to do
that?

Because, you know,

in the grand scheme of things, this is
quite a small deal, you know, compared to

some things they might be doing where
they're selling businesses that, you know,

could be worth like 10, 20, 30 million.

You know, this is kind of, I got the vibe
from them that it's not exactly, it's not

a massive thing for them.

They probably just want it off their plate
as quickly as possible.

And considering that the liquidators had
employed quite a big firm to...

to do this, you know, I'm sure that their
rates would be pretty high.

So I took the view, I've got nothing to
lose by just going in with a literally

like a zero offer pretty much.

So I think I, I think I offered like 500
pounds or something and wrote a very long

letter explaining why I thought it was
valued at 500 pounds, which I didn't think

it was valued at 500 pounds, I have to
say.

But I thought you can't hurt.

So I listed all the reasons why.

you know, I'm taking on risk, I'm taking
on reputational risk, I'm taking on the

headache of the, of it all.

There's going to be costs associated with
it.

These are all true.

and this is why I think it's worth this
much.

he just basically came back saying, you
know, not a hope in hell, was pretty much,

the response I got in much nicer terms
than that, but, you know, come back with

another offer.

and so we, we kind of.

thought about it, puzzled it out, figured
what we want to offer and then basically

put in a slightly more realistic amount,
which wasn't that much, to be honest with

you.

It wasn't that much, but they accepted it
and that was that, pretty much.

Okay, so, I mean, what was sort of roughly
like in this low thousands, tens of

thousands.

It was, you know, it was, I don't know,
more than 5 ,000 less than 50 ,000.

Okay, fine, fine, fine, fine.

Good.

Yeah, okay, so, but yeah, it sounds like,
yeah, a lot less than a multiple of

whatever their profits were.

I mean, it was, you know, yeah, I mean,
you know, they were turning over in the

last year, I think, of trading, but last
year trading for all this happened, they

were turning over like over 600.

So, you know, they were doing they were
doing well.

So I got I did get a serious deal, which,
you know, is is lucky.

However, of course, there was there was
damage done.

buy all of this and it's not the same as
buying a company that's in its peak and is

being kind of developed to sell.

There is some damage done.

They did lose two of their biggest clients
through this because they specialize in

universities.

With two of the universities, there was an
automatic removal from the preferred

supply list the minute that there was a
notification of the liquidation.

And that did account for a large portion
of that revenue.

So I was already aware that that would
happen.

And there are other clients where it does
feel like it's going to be a struggle to

get back in with them, whereas others,
we're already working with quite a lot of

them.

So that's worked out quite well.

So for you, for small films then, has it
kind of doubled your turnover or what kind

of impact has it had on your business?

Yeah, I mean, I think it's yet to be seen,
but I would say that the signs at this

point are pretty encouraging.

I would say that it's probably going to
add.

I think it will.

I think conservatively it's bound to add
25%, maybe 30 % to our turnover this

coming year.

If we get it right, I think it could it
could be pretty.

pretty big change.

The thing that we've realised pretty
quickly is that they had not been doing

huge amounts of outreach and business
development.

So with small films, we do an awful lot of
BD and a lot of marketing and just a lot

of active proactive work.

And, you know, we do have obviously,

lots of clients that we work with all the
time, but we're spending a lot of time

trying to acquire new clients.

And it's become clear that if we just sat
on Maya Films and did nothing with it, it

would probably tick along and there'd be
little bits coming in here and there.

But the real opportunity is to take what
we've been doing with small films and

apply that to Maya Films.

So our biggest sector with small films is
actually independent schools.

Say we've got clients like Eaton College,
Marlborough College, Wellington College,

all these sort of like big, big private
schools.

And we've got into real rhythm with how we
speak to them and how we actually build

our reputation with them.

So we've already been applying those
tactics to Maya films and that's started

to bring in completely fresh new leads.

But the huge advantage is the portfolio of
work because you can...

Talk about that work, you can show the
examples, you can show the experience

there.

And, you know, to me, that's no different
to buying a company.

If you're buying a company, you know,
folding in with staff or no staff, it's

the same thing, because we all know how to
make good films.

It's just the time it takes to build up
the portfolio to show everybody.

So, yeah, I think it's...

on your LinkedIn quite a few Maya films
going out.

What are you doing in terms of the brand?

What's the plan for the name Maya Films?

So this is something we're trying to work
out at the moment.

I mean, right now we're operating it as
MyFilms.

So we talk to people from MyFilms, we say
it's MyFilms, but we're also transparent

about the fact that it's MyFilms now
operated by SmallFilms and we own it.

My view is that it's got a great name.

The reputational damage doesn't seem to be
great.

So I think that we can continue to operate
it that way.

It's a absolute pain having two companies
to try and run and operate.

It's just not, it's not really
sustainable.

Everything is just, it's quite messy.

You know, you've got two brands, two, you
know, I have a part -time marketing

manager.

She's now split her time in half.

So she's giving each of them half the
effort rather than.

one full effort, even just emailing people
gets a real headache trying to remember

which email address you're going from.

So I don't think that's sustainable at
all.

If we were bigger, I could just put an MD
in charge of that.

And then that would probably work.

It would have its own independent team.

But because we're not big enough to do
that, I think we'll have to fold the

companies together.

And I'm not quite sure exactly what that
looks like yet.

because it's quite a big move to do
because you either fold my films into

small films and lose the my films brand,
which is not great.

Or you do it the other way around.

But with small films, we've got the
education side, but we've also got all

this brand work that we're doing.

So it just it doesn't make sense to have
to lose that side of it.

What what I really want to do is have an
education.

kind of powerhouse of a content agency.

That's what my big game is with this, is
to have, be the dominant player for

education content in the UK.

And I think we've got the ability to do
that, but we might have to have a new

brand name for it and probably bring the
small films education under it and then

the Maya films under it and have like a
new brand there.

That's probably what's going to happen.

But with all these things, the thing I've
learned in eight years is don't do things

too quickly.

You know, like make your moves, make your
plan, but just go a bit slowly into it

because I mean, we were going to, you
know, at one point we were about to

totally double down on food and become the
food and drink specialist agency.

And then, you know, cost of living hits
and, you know,

lot of food and drink companies having a
bit of a crap time at the moment.

And so I'm very glad that we didn't do
that because it would have been pretty

catastrophic.

So I think in the world that we're living
at the moment, there's just so much up and

down.

You just, you've got to be so careful
about making massive moves.

You've got to really prove that it's a
good decision before you fully commit to

it.

That makes sense.

So sort of looking back on your experience
of going out and doing this, is there

anything that you would have done
differently if you did it again?

yeah, I think, I mean, first of all, I
think it's been an amazing experience.

It's been very exciting for me.

And I think that when you get into a stage
in your business where you're able to, to

start buying companies, I can see how
exciting that would be.

and you know, already I'm going, right,
well, that was like a test, you know,

almost like a test ground.

Could we, could we now look at actually
trying to have an acquisition strategy?

because it's.

In one fell swoop, you add on a massive
chunk to your revenue and it's unclear how

much that's going to be at this point, but
it could be pretty big.

And it's fun and it feels like a little
bit dangerous and risky and stuff, which

when you're a business owner, many of us
are a little bit like that, quite like

that sort of thing.

But if I was going to do it differently, I
think I probably would have been a bit

more aggressive about it because...

For example, there were two clients that
were left on the table there.

And I think if I'd have been a bit more
aggressive with saying, we will step in

here and we're doing this and we're the
ones to help you here.

I know my film is going to liquidation,
but we've got the confidence to this, that

and the other.

I might have been able to save those
clients from leaving.

but I hadn't quite recognized what was
going on there, that that was happening.

So when I think when these opportunities
come up, time is critical to it,

particularly in liquidation.

If you don't act fast and you don't move
things quickly, you can lose a lot of the

benefits of it.

And so it did drag on for too long.

And so a lot of things kind of fizzled out
left, right and center.

And I'm sure that's the same if you're
buying a company is that you want to make

it happen reasonably quickly once you've
got an agreement, you know, or you've got

the vague bones of an agreement going.

You know, leaving it too long, it can only
give the other party advantage or lead to,

I know the word getting out about it or,
you know, these sorts of things.

So yeah, I think maybe just being a bit
more aggressive with it would have been

beneficial, but...

But otherwise now I think it's been a good
learning curve for me and it's given me

the appetite to do more of it in the
future, for sure.

Brilliant.

Well, yeah.

Congratulations.

Sounds great to hear your story and thanks
very much for coming on.

No worries, yeah, pleasure.

I've been very good and yeah, I'll
hopefully be able to update you soon about

what's going on.

Right stuff.