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Join feminist coaches Taina Brown and Becky Mollenkamp for casual (and often deep) conversations about business, current events, politics, pop culture, and more. We’re not perfect activists or allies! These are our real-time, messy feminist perspectives on the world around us.
This podcast is for you if you find yourself asking questions like:
• Why is feminism important today?
• What is intersectional feminism?
• Can capitalism be ethical?
• What does liberation mean?
• Equity vs. equality — what's the difference and why does it matter?
• What does a Trump victory mean for my life?
• What is mutual aid?
• How do we engage in collective action?
• Can I find safety in community?
• What's a feminist approach to ... ?
• What's the feminist perspective on ...?
Taina Brown she/hers (00:00.728)
Hello, hi.
Becky Mollenkamp (00:02.392)
Hi, how are you?
Taina Brown she/hers (00:04.158)
I'm doing alright. A little sleepy, but that's par for the course. How are you? Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (00:09.272)
I mean, yeah, I feel like honestly, since I had a kid, I've been terminally tired. But now I'm also, I have a little bit of cold and then, you know, the world is the world. So I just feel exhausted and tired.
Taina Brown she/hers (00:21.24)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Did you guys get snow with that cold front that came through last week?
Becky Mollenkamp (00:28.408)
We did yesterday. got a little bit of snow canceled school. So, you know how I feel about having my family home all day to love them. know, disrupts my wonderful quiet.
Taina Brown she/hers (00:37.813)
Yeah. It disrupts your day. Yeah. Your day, your schedule, your quiet time. So what do you want to talk about today?
Becky Mollenkamp (00:47.836)
I I don't know we could talk about the world. I don't know. There's so much going on any given moment that it is like everything feels like it's happening happening at breakneck speed where your head is just spinning. It's it feels like anything we talk about that is happening in politics or the world right now will be null and void three days from now. Like some other new thing is going to be.
Taina Brown she/hers (01:00.365)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (01:11.465)
Yeah, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (01:15.328)
front and center, but I will say like right now today we're recording this on Thursday. It'll come out on Monday. The thing that's hot in my mind is obviously RFK Junior was just today, just an hour or two ago approved for his position as Health and Human Services Director, which is terrifying. Especially as I'm sitting here sick and thinking about like, I need to go get my mammogram done. And I have, you know, like I have some annual like exams I need to take care of.
Taina Brown she/hers (01:28.939)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (01:44.353)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (01:44.92)
Also thinking about like, golly, my COVID vaccine. Like, it's not, I don't think it's been long enough that I can go get it new dose, but I'm so afraid of like the next dose. If I even managed to get it could be the last one. Anyway, it just has me thinking a lot about health and how scary that is.
Taina Brown she/hers (02:00.737)
Yeah.
Yeah, everything feels really scary right now. Everything definitely feels scary. am vacillating between relentless optimism and terror.
Becky Mollenkamp (02:18.547)
I'm basically sunk in, I feel like I am sunk in quicksand in depression. And I didn't think I would be here. So it's very odd to me that this is happening. Like I really felt like the first week following the inauguration, I felt like I was in a pretty good place, good head space of being sort of angry, but also like activated in a positive way of like, let's take action. And the angry even felt like, we're gonna, we're gonna solve this. All right, like we'll work together and.
Taina Brown she/hers (02:22.73)
Mm.
Taina Brown she/hers (02:32.958)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (02:38.142)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (02:44.3)
It's been amazing how in the week or two after that, and now for the last week or two, I've just really fallen into this sort of pit of despair. It's not it's punctuated by moments of hope or moments of joy. But like overall, I just feel this cloud hanging over me and I can't seem to quite shake because it does feel like it just feels like so much.
Taina Brown she/hers (02:51.902)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (02:56.894)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (03:01.631)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. I mean, and I think that's, that it's important to recognize that and to validate that too. Like it's not.
I think staying in one place, one extreme for too long is unhealthy because staying in relentless optimism too long kind of starts teetering into toxic positivity and just, you're basically just gaslighting yourself, right? By not recognizing what's really happening. And then staying in like despair for too long is, then you get paralyzed, right? And immobilized. so, actually that just made me think of the,
That Ezra Klein piece for the New York Times, did you see that or read that?
Becky Mollenkamp (03:45.974)
I did not read it. I saw it going around, didn't read it.
Taina Brown she/hers (03:49.481)
Yeah. So somebody sent it, the article to me on through Instagram and I read through it a little bit. And then he also recorded it for social media. And I watched that and you know, the premise is like, don't believe him, right? Like he's saying all these things, but it's a lot of grandstanding because the courts are going to push back on a lot of things. But he's also placing people.
in very strategic positions and then dismantling other strategic positions that are supposed to provide those checks and balances. so, yeah, so like I, excuse me, I understand the premise of the piece and like the spirit of it for sure. Like I think the intention was to get people to just kind of, to help people get a grip and to be able to like see the bigger picture and see how.
Becky Mollenkamp (04:27.096)
entirely.
Taina Brown she/hers (04:47.661)
some of these things are meant to induce panic but aren't really going to pan out. And I do believe some of the things that are happening won't pan out the way that we expect them to or the way that they want them to. But I also feel like that's a really privileged point of view to have because even if it doesn't pan out exactly the way that they are intending it to, there's real harm being done to people day in and day out. this...
really this position of, yeah, everything's chaotic, but don't believe them. Like, it'll be okay. Like, I just feel like that's a really privileged position to be taking.
Becky Mollenkamp (05:23.636)
sure, because it feels like he's what they're saying. And I hear this mostly feels like it's coming from more traditional, moderate and or mainstream Democrats slash blue MAGA, like the blue matter who kind of people, the same people who were like, anyone who's even talking about Joe Biden getting out of the race is like a traitor to the party and a traitor to the people. you know, that kind of those kind of people, I feel there's a lot of that going on. And what it does feel like is
Taina Brown she/hers (05:35.26)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (05:52.876)
This whole idea of the shock and awe approach that they're taking, it's true. is like, let's just throw everything bad out and people are going to be so overwhelmed. They won't be able to react to all of it. So a lot of it won't, hopefully, although I don't know, because honestly, I'm not seeing the Democrats do anything. They feel very much like they're paralyzed and just trusting that everything's fine. This is not a normal presidency. But part of the problem with that is one, you can throw a thousand grenades into a room.
and say only one of them's live, right? Like this theory of, well, he's throwing a thousand grenades, but 999 of them are gonna get repealed. Yeah, but that's still one grenade that's gonna take out some of the people in the room, right? Exactly, and am I supposed to be okay with that? I'm supposed to say, sure, go ahead and throw them because it might not be me and the good chances it won't be me, but if everyone in that room is people I care about, then it's still like, who am I to say, yeah, that's fine. That's a deep amount of privilege.
Taina Brown she/hers (06:31.044)
And how do you know which one it is?
Taina Brown she/hers (06:47.204)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (06:49.304)
And the other problem with that whole approach is I have very little faith in our judicial system anymore. Not that the judicial system won't do the right thing. I think the judges are showing that they will largely do the right thing. What I fear for is they're not going to respect the rule of law. And they've already said that's true. They have said it. The press secretary has said it. They're all sort of saying,
Taina Brown she/hers (07:09.604)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (07:16.44)
the Department of Justice head, Pam Bondi, they're all saying, hey, we don't agree with this. We think the judicial system is the one that's corrupt, so we don't have to respect it. Or even blatantly saying like, no, basically, the president is the end all be all, which makes a dictator or emperor or king, right? Not a president in a democracy. So like, I think you can say those kinds of think pieces every once in a while. I'll look at them and think, OK, take a deep breath. Yeah, it's not so bad. Things will work out.
Taina Brown she/hers (07:31.27)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (07:45.698)
But the truth is most of me feels like that is those same people who would have been saying like, you know, don't worry, wear the star of David, but it won't get worse than that. We promise, you know, just allow this thing and then it's not going to get worse. And I hate to draw parallels to something so horrible because in no way do I mean to like make light of something as awful as the Holocaust. And the reality is I feel like
Taina Brown she/hers (07:58.122)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (08:10.572)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (08:14.518)
The same people who are saying chill out, don't be hysterical, are the same people who a year ago were saying, well, he says he's not going to do Project 2025. It's not going to happen. And yet here it is happening. Like, don't gaslight me. Don't tell me this isn't what's happening isn't happening or that it's not as bad as it seems or that, you know, all of us, most of us are going to be OK. It's already having horrible. They're like we're talking not even a month in and there's already bad things happening. Money.
Taina Brown she/hers (08:18.22)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (08:41.282)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (08:41.826)
literally being taken that is literally killing people. There are people dying right now because of the USAID ID money going away. And that's just the beginning of what's happening.
Taina Brown she/hers (08:52.458)
Yeah, yeah. And I mean, the truth is, too, you know, drawing parallels between what's happening now and the rise of fascism and Nazi Germany. Like, yeah, we can definitely draw parallels to that. But and I think we've we've briefly mentioned this in another episode, like Nazi Germany took their lessons from post reconstruction, US South, right? From. So this isn't this isn't something that we learned.
Becky Mollenkamp (09:12.312)
All for sure.
Taina Brown she/hers (09:19.275)
from Nazi Germany. This is something that has been embedded in American culture since forever. They learned it from us. And now we're exactly. So this is like a symbiotic kind of relationship. And so it's
Becky Mollenkamp (09:22.52)
No, they learned it from us and now we're re-learning it.
Becky Mollenkamp (09:31.544)
Mmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (09:36.297)
Yeah, I just, and of course, I mean, I don't know, I don't know if Ezra Klein, he presents as a white, cis, hetero male. I don't know if he's gay or if he's not cisgendered or whatever. But it's like, but again, that it's like, okay, sure. You can say that because a lot of these things may or may not affect you directly. So, so it's easy for you to be calm. It's easy for you to not go into hysterics. It's easy for you to not panic when
the majority of people in this country are either in poverty or part of the LGBTQIA plus community or black and brown or, you know, immigrants. so that his reality is not the reality that most of us are facing today.
Becky Mollenkamp (10:22.712)
Yeah, I just look and he is married to a woman. So most likely cisgender, heterosexual, male, white, he's Jewish. I don't know, couldn't find anything about whether he is or is a Zionist. So there he does have one marginalized identity at least how that affects his policies and especially a lot of what's happening now. I don't know. He's and he's also well educated. And yeah, that's not the reality for a lot of people. And ultimately there is, you know,
Taina Brown she/hers (10:38.161)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (10:45.055)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (10:51.032)
I love my husband and if he's listening to this, he and I have talked about this, so it's okay. But there is, I was just saying to another friend of mine that it feels like the wolves are at my door. And I think the reason that I'm feeling depressed, whereas you have these more moments of being hopeful, is that while I have always believed there were wolves, I was never somebody saying, there's no wolves, you're being ridiculous.
Taina Brown she/hers (11:16.729)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (11:17.4)
I believe there were wolves and I would see the wolves and I would even like throw stones from inside my house at the wolves to try and protect my friends who were already being harmed by the wolves. But this is the first time where I'm like, shit, my door's not gonna hold up to the wolves, right? And so it is like an experience for me and many white people who, you know, we've had a privilege of not feeling the wolves at the door to this degree and like this threatened, which is privilege. And I think Ezra, by being a man,
Taina Brown she/hers (11:31.069)
Okay.
Taina Brown she/hers (11:42.557)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (11:46.24)
is still sort of where my husband is, which is he's now where I used to be, which is like, I can see him. He sees there are wolves. He believes me that there are wolves, but I don't know, right? But he is pretty certain the door is gonna hold up and he knows his door is gonna hold up. So, and he doesn't want me to be eaten by the wolves, but I think ultimately kind of in some way thinks his door holding up is gonna protect us both or something. I think, so we've talked about this and it's just, so, you know, he's not feeling the same degree.
Taina Brown she/hers (11:56.295)
but his door will hold up.
Becky Mollenkamp (12:15.774)
It's easier for him to give and he's fighting it really hard, but to give sort of that like, don't be hysterical kind of response because it's not the same for him. And I think Ezra, no matter that he does maybe have some marginalized identities, ultimately he is still presents as a white man. And that has a great degree of safety that gives you like that steel door to the wall that I think many of us for many people.
Taina Brown she/hers (12:22.812)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (12:37.915)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (12:41.826)
There's never been the door. It's always been on the run. And then for those of us who've had a door, we're learning our door was more fragile than we thought. Right? Yeah. So anyway, that's, and I think that's why I'm feeling depressed. And then there's also comes along with that, the guilt around some of that, which I know is not helpful and I need to release the reality of it is there is some of that guilt too, of like the guilt, knowing all this time, even though I believe there were wolves, I'm that feeling of like, was I doing enough? Right? And so that,
Taina Brown she/hers (12:48.368)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (12:58.172)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (13:09.019)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (13:11.0)
couples with the fear and has, you know, is creating some of that depression. Not to the point where I'm like, I'm going to give up because hell no, but I have to admit that I am struggling.
Taina Brown she/hers (13:21.197)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like most of us are living in straw houses and people like Ezra Klein are in panic rooms, right?
Becky Mollenkamp (13:29.654)
Yeah, well, yes, Elon Musk is definitely in a panic room, right? He's the one controlling the wolves. But yeah, and then Ezra has got like the brick house or maybe even the steel house. And yeah, and I think there's other people who are who would be looking at me and I fully understand it. You'd be like, bitch, I never had a straw door. Right. And that's where the guilt piece comes up, because, no. And
Taina Brown she/hers (13:41.21)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (13:50.724)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (13:55.064)
I don't want to be one of those people who's like late to the game. But the truth is I'm going, I'm having to wrestle with some nervous system stuff that I just have been protected from before that I've had more than a year around. And now like some of the things that have been coming out, specifically one of them being this thing that's going around now. And I can't remember, I should have looked up before we got on the call, but somebody has introduced legislation, the SAVE Act, S-A-V-E Act that will, it's a voter rights, a voter suppression law that would be federal.
Taina Brown she/hers (14:04.676)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (14:23.706)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (14:24.936)
And it would keep a lot of people from being able to vote because you have to bring documentation of your name, legal documentation of your full name to be able to vote. It would already alienate all sorts of voters with marginalized identities for a lot of reasons. But the piece that stood out to me and that they were highlighting, of course, because it would affect white women who previously have been like, voter suppression, I don't really have to worry about it. I can care about it, but I have no worry about it. It could potentially
eliminate the votes of a vast majority of women, married women whose names have changed, right? Yes, because your name would have to be the same on your birth certificate or passport as it is on your driver's license and or voter ID. And for many women like myself, I changed my name legally, right? So my and my
Taina Brown she/hers (15:03.251)
What?
Becky Mollenkamp (15:20.684)
driver's license reflects that, so does my voter's registration. But it is not the same as what's on my birth certificate. And I don't have a passport right now. I need to get that taken care of, clearly. But I had no plan to travel internationally. My family, we can't financially afford to, even if we wanted to. And frankly, with planes dropping out of the skies lately, I have no desire to. But it woke me up to like, I better get a passport because my driver's license under the SAVE Act wouldn't work.
Taina Brown she/hers (15:32.278)
Yeah, me too. Mine is expired.
Becky Mollenkamp (15:49.504)
I don't know if it'll pass, there's, mean, we're raising the red flags here of people saying, hey, like these things can, and a lot of them will pass. And even if they don't, he's just going to executive order his way into it, right? The same with right now, he was an executive order to roll back Title IX funding for women's sports that makes universities pay, give equal sums to women's sports as men's sports. That was an incredibly important
Taina Brown she/hers (16:02.408)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (16:17.464)
piece of legislation that was designed to make sure that it wasn't like it used to be before Title IX, where 99.99 % of all money for sports and athletics or athletics and universities went to the men's sports and women were left with nothing, unable to compete, unable to rise in sports. We're just beginning to see some of the gains from Title IX from 40, 50 years ago in women's professional sports, what it's finally starting to do there, and that's going away.
Taina Brown she/hers (16:27.998)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (16:47.478)
Right. will they sue? Sure. Will they win? Maybe. But if they do, will it be enforced anyway? And that is like just part it. Exactly. there's just, mean, there's an executive order making woman a banned word in the federal government, along with so many other words.
Taina Brown she/hers (16:56.158)
And how long will it take?
Taina Brown she/hers (17:06.91)
Yeah. Yeah, there's some, think somebody leaked a document of words that would make any kind of grant funding be rejected. And it was things like women, gender, which, yeah, sure, those things could be a part of some kind of inclusion project. But you could also just be doing a, right, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (17:12.312)
Again?
Becky Mollenkamp (17:32.28)
studying for a treatment to find a cure for breast cancer.
Taina Brown she/hers (17:36.445)
Yeah, where you have to talk about women and you have to talk about gender and the differences and like rates of diagnoses and things like that. yeah, I mean, I saw something on TikTok yesterday or the day before that really struck me. I don't remember the guy's name or the account, but I'll find it so we can put it in the show notes. But it was basically,
going along, saying something along the lines of what a lot of people have been saying about this concept of like muscle velocity and like the overwhelm being the goal, right? And he was just very calmly reminding us. And he was a black man and I'm 100 % sure his message was specifically to black people, but I think everyone can take it to heart these days here in the States is that,
We, well, first as black people, like we've been through, like our people have been through, like, and survived worse. And so we will get through this, but also reacting and staying in panic mode to like everything that's being thrown at us is keeping us in his imagination. And we need to be using our imagination right now to resist to
build communities of care and communities of mutual aid and to create strategies. And obviously, that is way fucking easier said than done, right? When we, most of us as citizens in this country, are used to existing in the imagination of our politicians, right? Because that's part of what a politician's job is, right?
hopefully their imagination is in alignment with the imaginations of the people that they represent. And so there's sort of like an imaginative partnership that is supposed to happen there with how laws are supposed to be passed, how bills are supposed to be proposed, et cetera. But I think we have gotten extremely comfortable just relying on the imagination of our politicians. And that's what's making it really hard right now for a lot of people.
Taina Brown she/hers (20:03.437)
honestly for a lot of white people, right? They haven't, I feel like if you are mostly cis, gendered, heteronormative white person, you haven't had to rely, you haven't had to use your imagination that much. You haven't had to use your imagination to think about how it could get worse, but you also haven't had to use your imagination to think about how it could get better. And to those of you who are listening,
right now who are in that place, welcome to the fight. This is part of being in the fight, like grappling with the feelings of despair, right? And just, and not trying to rush through that either, I think.
Becky Mollenkamp (20:46.104)
That's big thing I've been trying to gift myself is I can hold two things at once. We all can write in that reminder. We can hold two things at once. I can be in this place of despair and of that realization of like as much as I thought I knew and had the empathy and you know, unlearned and done a lot of work. All of that, all of that, like grappling grappling with that and the overwhelm of that and the despair. All of that can be true and I cannot give up.
Taina Brown she/hers (20:51.055)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (21:16.12)
And I can find my moments when I have the capacity and find ways that I can be a part of collective action and part of the fight. can also dream bigger. Like, it's OK to have both of those things. Instead of saying I have to, like, push through this, get over this, stop this before I can do X, Y or Z, I'm trying to really honor that space of I can do both. And that's OK. And it's OK if the despair goes on for a while. That doesn't mean
Taina Brown she/hers (21:33.08)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (21:39.642)
Yeah, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (21:43.596)
that I have to only exist inside of that or that I have to let it win or that I have to try to fight it off. I can just let it be and then also find space for the other. I just wanted to also quickly say because you mentioned the lack of imagination and it's funny because I had posted something on Blue Sky not long ago about how Hakeem Jeffries, who's the head of the Democrats in the House, has been showing up and what a disappointment. know, he's I mean, it's never that I believed Hakeem Jeffries was progressive. He wouldn't have
attained the speaker of the house, now former speaker of the house position. anyway, the head of the Democrats, sorry, he wasn't speaker of the house yet. My brain's not working very well. Anyway, he wouldn't have gotten to where he was. He wouldn't be Pelosi successor if he were progressive because the handful of progressive Democrats, or non Democrats, but progressive Congress people is very small. They don't have enough.
Taina Brown she/hers (22:14.851)
Right.
Taina Brown she/hers (22:31.535)
See ya.
Taina Brown she/hers (22:39.758)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (22:40.408)
be able to secure some, you have to be a person who plays the game to get to his job. But, or and, I'm so disappointed even so that his answer to this the other day, and it hasn't been that long, they're, you know, in theory they're still doing things. I get annoyed by the blue maggots who keep saying, you know, I'm sure they're plotting something, right? That's why they're quiet. Is there up to something and something big is going to happen? Those are the same people who are saying all that kind of stuff leading up to the election and nothing ever happened. But anyway.
Taina Brown she/hers (23:06.072)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (23:08.984)
His big answer was, or when he was pressed on, why aren't the Democrats doing more? He said, what can we do? It's their Congress. It's their presidency. Our hands are tied. You know, what do you what do you want from us is what he was saying. Like, what are we supposed to do? What do you want from us? And I was like, what a woeful lack of a mate imagination to say if we don't control everything, then we can't do anything. And what cojones to also at the same time be sending me emails daily asking me for money.
Taina Brown she/hers (23:29.549)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (23:38.988)
to do what? When you're sitting there telling me can't do anything anyway, why am I giving you money to do nothing? When you're telling me there's nothing you can do. But it's a real lack of imagination to say there's nothing they can do because the Democrats have not had, I mean, the Republicans have not had a majority. They have not had what the Republicans have right now. The Republicans have never had that kind of majority or anything, and they have always managed to grow wrenches in the plains no matter what, right?
Taina Brown she/hers (23:40.311)
Yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (24:01.879)
to do shit. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (24:04.886)
When they had no one, they didn't have the presidency, the house or the Senate. They still stopped action after action. Part of that is because Democrats follow the rules, right? Maybe to their own detriment now. but part of it is because the Republicans were like, we may not, we may be small, but we're mighty and you, we will throw every, like they were obstructionist and it's time to be obstructionist. Democrats have to stop following the rules and be more obstructionist. But I get frustrated because it's like the lack of imagination is part of what's like bothering me, but.
Taina Brown she/hers (24:13.514)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (24:29.077)
Yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (24:34.495)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (24:34.88)
Also, like you said, I can't wait for Hakeem Jeffries to come and save me. If I am, I'm never going to be saved, right? They've made that clear. So it is like, what can we do? And one thing that's happening on my birthday, my birthday is February 28th. I think it's the best day of the year because it's the only month of 28 days and I was born on the 20th day. But anyway, there is a national blackout on buying or a national boycott on spending money. It is like a spending freeze by the collective, you know, just average people.
Taina Brown she/hers (24:41.439)
Yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (24:58.539)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (25:04.213)
Don't spend on anything you don't have to. And that means, unless you have to buy a medication that day because your kid is sick or like you absolutely have to get gas to go to work, fill up the day before. But anything you like, just spend no money. And if you absolutely have to try to shop locally and like mom and dad, yeah, and in cash, the goal is to say, this is what it looks like when we don't spend money. And if enough of us do it now, and maybe again and again, or maybe for more than a day,
Taina Brown she/hers (25:20.2)
and cash.
Taina Brown she/hers (25:31.626)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (25:31.788)
That is how we do take some control back. do still have, because the billionaires are only, you know, less than a percent. Well, they're only like, yeah, not even a fraction of a fraction of a percent of us. The bulk of us are not part of this group. And I see more and more like farmers finally saying, I voted for Trump and I regret it and I wouldn't do it again. And I think as more working class people realize he was never interested in helping them and
Taina Brown she/hers (25:37.31)
Billionaires because well their lesson
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (25:58.092)
they will start to maybe realize they can join the fight in this way too.
Taina Brown she/hers (26:02.28)
Yeah, yeah, don't spend any money on February 20th if you can't, if you can help it. And plan ahead, get cash out the week before. So if you didn't need to spend money, you're not, you know, contributing to profit from debit and credit card fees. Plan ahead with your community. So if you have a need that comes up, your community can fill it for you as opposed to having to go out and spend money.
Becky Mollenkamp (26:09.528)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (26:27.256)
right? Get gas the week before, get groceries the week before, know, days before. Like, think about how you can do nothing that day.
Taina Brown she/hers (26:33.775)
Yeah, yeah. I want to share really quickly as we're wrapping up just something I sent out to my email list. And, you know, with this concept of like, well, just with everything, honestly, they are making it quite clear, right? They don't want some of us to exist. And sometimes when you're in a fight like that, your very existence is resistance.
And so even just the act of just your mundane daily activities is a part of that resistance. So if you are feeling overwhelmed, if you are feeling despair, if you're feeling hopeless, just do your normal shit. You don't have to go out into the streets right now. You don't have to organize. You don't have to contribute to mutual aid right now. Just take care of yourself. Like the act of taking care of yourself.
and making sure that you are cared for, that your home is cared for, that your family is cared for, that you are nurturing yourself is an act of resistance in the current space that we're all in where they're literally trying to extinguish us. They're trying to extinguish our hope. They're trying to extinguish our means of survival.
trying to distinguish our joy. So tapping into those things and saying, I'm not giving those things up, that in and of itself is resistance. So yeah, that's how we fight every day. Not every day is like marching in the streets or calling your senator or donating money or not donating, but like contributing to a mutual aid or organizing your neighbors.
Part of the revolution, part of the resistance is just cooking dinner, taking a shower, taking a nap. You know? Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (28:37.14)
finding some joy, being with your family, taking care of yourself, right? All of those things are definitely part of it. saw just be related to what you're saying about Ezra Klein. There's also a piece in The Nation Today that says pay less attention to the man in front of the curtain. You know, the Oz sort of thing with Trump and Musk. And it says that that all of what they're doing this outrageous behavior every day is meant to be paralyzing, as we've said, and that
there are still ways to fight back without panicking. I just want to like, guess the thing that for me is important in this moment for me myself to remember, and maybe others will be feeling the same way. It goes back to like, we can hold the two things. I can believe that what's happening is both like important, even if it is the shock and awe, even if it is meant to overwhelm or what or paralyze me, I can see that stuff and say,
some of this is like all for effect, but and also it's very real and scary. Like I can hold onto that and I can hold on to and I can take actions where they work for me as I'm able. I don't have to change everything overnight, right? I think that perfectionism thing is like, I've got to take all the actions like you were saying. So like, I just think for me, it's just trying to hold on to both of those, like allowing.
Taina Brown she/hers (29:58.34)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (29:59.056)
that this is really scary and the people are trying to gaslight me into believing it's not. I don't have to believe them. I can be honest. Like I can say, no, this is scary. That is real. Is there some of it that's show? Yes, but also it's really scary. And I can hold on to this belief that at the same time, like I can take actions as I'm able. And like both of those things can be true that I don't have to allow it to paralyze me. But that also doesn't mean I don't have to pretend like it's nothing.
Taina Brown she/hers (30:23.812)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (30:24.552)
I do feel like there's like, I don't know, maybe because you brought you said it too. So you must be feeling it. I'm feeling this call, the sort of feeling out there of like, it's almost failure if we admit that this is scary. I like that's privilege. Yes, it's also like it just seems delusional to me.
Taina Brown she/hers (30:37.229)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (30:43.245)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, don't gaslight yourself.
Becky Mollenkamp (30:47.158)
Yeah, are you feeling that call though? That same sort of like feeling out in the ether of people sort of wanting to, to me it almost feels like those are people who are in some ways also part of the problem because they are almost playing into that hand by saying, no, no, don't worry. It really isn't that bad. Like I expect right wingers to say that, but when it starts coming from people who I think of as sharing more values with me, I started to feel like what in the world are you seeing? Like, how are you saying that?
Taina Brown she/hers (31:04.781)
Hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (31:10.423)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. I, I, what I've been feeling is, and just to be clear, I was also in Florida for about a week last week. So, so that's, that's a whole different context, right? So, but, I, what I've been feeling from people I've been interacting with is just like, you know, when you watch a scary movie and you know, something scary is about to happen, but you don't know when, until everyone's just kind of on edge.
Becky Mollenkamp (31:27.671)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (31:43.125)
and there's like this energy in the room of just like anticipation, that's what I've been feeling from a lot of people.
Becky Mollenkamp (31:48.63)
Yeah. It's like the jackpot, the jack in the box going and you know, eventually it's going to come and then you click it and maybe it's the spring is wrong and it doesn't go. But you know that as soon as you look away, it's going to go like, right. We could try to avoid it, but it's going to happen. And it does feel like that. It's just how big is the how scary is the monster? Right. But again, just because the monster
Taina Brown she/hers (31:51.859)
Yes. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (31:58.24)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (32:02.185)
Yeah, yeah, it's like in the movie Elf.
Becky Mollenkamp (32:13.78)
may not be the biggest monster it could be doesn't mean it's not a monster. And so we have to allow ourselves to say, I can be afraid of the monster, even if the monster is not the scariest possible monster. What if it's a middling? It's still a monster. So yeah, I don't know. I don't know if any of this is helpful, but it does speak to where I'm at right now. And I don't know if you're like, it sounds like we're in similar places, but just with degrees of context informing it.
Taina Brown she/hers (32:17.631)
Yeah. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (32:23.723)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (32:36.189)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (32:39.624)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm also trying to just move my body because there's a lot of the anxious energy just being stored in my body. So I'm just trying to go for a walk, go outside, go run errands, clean up around the house here and there to just kind of release some of that anxious energy.
Becky Mollenkamp (32:45.066)
And yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (32:53.484)
I need to do more.
Becky Mollenkamp (32:59.352)
Yeah, I need to do more of that. Well, tomorrow is Valentine's Day. When you listen to this, it'll be past Valentine's Day. But happy Valentine's Day to everyone. I hope it was good. And I love you, Taina. Thank you for doing this with me. And hopefully Valentine's Day is a way for us to remember what really matters, not to discount all this stuff, because again, I'm very much in the boat of the shit's real and the shit's hard. But also, I think it is good for us to remember, like, love is what really matters ultimately. And love is what can save us here and not to like
Taina Brown she/hers (33:12.861)
Love you too.
Becky Mollenkamp (33:29.484)
Not in a love and light kind of way. Yeah, but you say if we could all remember that we are meant to love one another, so much of the stuff wouldn't be happening. And then how do we who still believe that we're meant to love one each other? I don't think fighting with each other is the answer. I do think we have to find a way that we can lock arm in arm and kind of love on each other as a way to fight back.
Taina Brown she/hers (33:31.091)
Yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (33:54.717)
Yeah, yeah. And today is Galentine's Day. So happy Galentine's Day. Yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (33:57.844)
that's right. The Leslie Note fans in the world, I never celebrate Galentine's Day because I don't really have a lot of gal pals that live nearby, but I think it's a lovely sentiment. And if you're not married, maybe don't do it because if you do, be careful about changing your name. I professionally have never changed my name. Most people don't even know I've changed my name. I didn't change my name for the first five years of my marriage. I did finally as a gift to my partner and my son.
Taina Brown she/hers (34:14.013)
Yeah
Becky Mollenkamp (34:27.042)
like for us all to share the same last name and I'm having some regret around it. So I'm jealous of all the Galentines who maybe are single and are loving it because single women without children are much harder to control.
Taina Brown she/hers (34:42.589)
Yeah, agreed. 100 % agreed.
Becky Mollenkamp (34:46.476)
which makes you think that maybe part of this is intentional. It's all intentional. Like if we can get more of these women where it's easier to control them because a woman who's worried about saving her children or a woman who was tethered to a man, I'm talking heteronormative here, although that's also on the list of words you can't say, but a woman tethered to a man who is easier to take away her rights or a woman who has a child who is going to be far, it's much more difficult to just say, fuck you and do whichever you want.
Taina Brown she/hers (35:13.991)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (35:15.788)
care for. So I'm very like, there's a part of me that's also having a little grief over like missing that part of my life of like that time when I was single and child free and how different I might feel right now if I were.
Taina Brown she/hers (35:27.664)
Yeah, yeah. But I think also, I think that's true, but I think your love for your child can also be an extremely motivating force.
Becky Mollenkamp (35:36.877)
Well, that is true. Yes, yes, yes. And I do see like a part of my legacy and my ability to be in the fight is in raising a white man who understands privilege, who understands, who has compassion, who has empathy, who maybe would be a part of like changing things from within.
because we need those people too. And I'm not seeing enough of them. But every once in a while when I do, it does hearten me some to see them and the white CIS het men right now who are showing up either online or in the workplace or anywhere else to say like, yeah, no, I'm not here for this. And here's how I'm going to help to fight against this. The J.B. Pritzker's of the world, right? He's a billionaire. He's a white CIS het man. And he's showing up saying we are not going to follow these rules and we will fight back.
Taina Brown she/hers (36:08.294)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (36:14.748)
Thank you.
Becky Mollenkamp (36:30.584)
And there's more than just him, but those are the men we need. So if you're, can't imagine we have that many men listening, but if you are, please be in the fight, we need you too. Even if the lion is not able to get in your door, he's getting in the door of women that you care about. And even if you don't know them, just again, going back to love, like find your humanity.
Taina Brown she/hers (36:37.776)
Yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (36:50.275)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's all she wrote for today.
Becky Mollenkamp (36:53.56)
I don't know if this was rambling episode, but thank you for listening, everyone. think it just speaks to like, if you're feeling the same kind of like, don't even know what to do right now or I'm just overwhelmed or like I want to fight, but also I'm struggling. I think the biggest thing is you're just not alone. You're not alone.
Taina Brown she/hers (37:11.864)
Yeah, you're not alone. You're not alone. You are not alone. Don't give into the feeling that you are alone. Tap into your community.
Becky Mollenkamp (37:20.446)
Let's find each other and fight. Okay. All right, bye.
Taina Brown she/hers (37:23.482)
Yeah.