Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques

“A brand is a promise, and a great brand is a promise well kept.”
What does it take to build something people believe in? For Daniel Lubetzky, social entrepreneur and KIND Snacks founder, it starts with curiosity, compassion, creativity, and courage, along with a willingness to listen, learn, and stay true to what you stand for. In this episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, Lubetzky joins Matt Abrahams to share lessons from building businesses, brands, and bridges between people. He explains why authenticity matters more than appearing to have all the answers, how great brands keep their promises, and what entrepreneurs can learn from listening, practicing, and knowing when to adapt without losing sight of their values.

Takeaways:
  • Authenticity builds trust. You don’t need to have every answer or appear perfectly polished. Being willing to admit what you don’t know, listen, and learn can make others more willing to believe what you do say. 
  • Strong brands know what they promise. Consistency around your values and value proposition helps people know what to expect from you, while thoughtful feedback can help you adapt without losing what you stand for. 

Activity:
  • Practice the pause. In your next conversation, resist the urge to jump in when the other person finishes speaking. Leave a brief pause, then respond to what you actually heard rather than what you expected them to say.
Printable Expanded Takeaways & Activities

To listen to the extended Deep Thinks version of this episode, please visit FasterSmarter.io/premium.

Episode Reference Links:
Connect:

 Chapters:

  • (00:00) - Introduction
  • (01:01) - Builders vs. Destroyers
  • (02:41) - The Four Cs of a Builder’s Mindset
  • (04:28) - Listening, Pausing, and Authenticity
  • (07:22) - What Entrepreneurs Get Wrong
  • (08:51) - Betting on the Entrepreneur
  • (10:20) - Building a Brand That Keeps Its Promise
  • (12:42) - The Three Cs of the Creative Process
  • (18:37) - The Final Three Questions
  • (23:12) - Conclusion

Creators and Guests

Host
Matt Abrahams
Lecturer Stanford University Graduate School of Business | Think Fast Talk Smart podcast host
Guest
Daniel Lubetzky
Social Entrepreneur | KIND Snacks Founder | Investor | Author

What is Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques?

One of the most essential ingredients to success in business and life is effective communication.

Join Matt Abrahams, best-selling author and Strategic Communication lecturer at Stanford Graduate School of Business, as he interviews experts to provide actionable insights that help you communicate with clarity, confidence, and impact. From handling impromptu questions to crafting compelling messages, Matt explores practical strategies for real-world communication challenges.

Whether you’re navigating a high-stakes presentation, perfecting your email tone, or speaking off the cuff, Think Fast, Talk Smart equips you with the tools, techniques, and best practices to express yourself effectively in any situation. Enhance your communication skills to elevate your career and build stronger professional relationships.

Tune in every Monday and Thursday for new episodes. Subscribe now to unlock your potential as a thoughtful, impactful communicator. Learn more and sign up for our Newsletter at fastersmarter.io.

All communication is about building
connections and relationships.

My name's Matt Abrahams, and I
teach strategic communication at

Stanford Graduate School of Business.

Welcome to Think Fast,
Talk Smart, the podcast.

Today I am excited to
speak with Daniel Lubetzky.

He's a pioneering social entrepreneur
and the founder of KIND Snacks.

He leverages his unique background
in Stanford Law education to bridge

deep societal divides, most recently
launching the Builders Movement to empower

citizens to overcome toxic polarization.

Daniel is a best-selling author of
Do the KIND Thing, and a full-time

investor on TV's Shark Tank.

He's launching his own
podcast called Build or Break.

Well, welcome, Daniel.

I am a lover of your KIND bars.

My pantry is full of them, and I'm
looking forward to our conversation today.

Thanks for being here.

I'm so happy to be here, Matt.

Thanks for having me.

Excellent.

Shall we get started?

Absolutely.

You distinguish between
builders and destroyers.

Can you define these for us?

And, and what role does
communication play in that?

You know, my father was a Holocaust
survivor, so my entire life, or since

I remember, I've been trying to build
bridges to prevent what happened to him

from happening again to other people.

And what I've learned is that every
one of us has a choice every single

morning, every single day, in how we
look at other people and how we act.

And we can either deny the humanity
of others and then proceed to

try to divide, destroy, demolish,
diminish, or you can choose to wake

up in the morning and think, "How
can I make this a better world?

How can I build together?

How can I try to elevate humanity?

How can I unite and solve problems
together?" And then you're a builder.

And it's a choice that all of us have
every day in how we live our lives,

whether we're gonna try to solve problems
together or tear each other apart.

And it seems very logical because
when I just shared this message,

probably ninety-nine percent of your
listeners agree, but it's very easy

for us to fall prey to social media
algorithms, to divisive media, to

divisive politicians, to foreign
influences, to divisive rhetoric, to

divisive curricula that frames things
as victim versus oppressor, and that

makes us think that it's us versus them.

And the natural proclivity over
the last many years has been to

think that we are in our own tribe
rather than all of us being human.

What does communication play into?

It is the most important framework for
us to think and communicate our ideas.

So without it, we have nothing.

I appreciate that distinction and
that it is a choice, and communication

forms, uh, the foundation, as you
said, to help us to break down those,

those walls and build those bridges.

You've defined four C's that
compromise a builder's mindset.

Can you share what these are, and
how can we actively cultivate them in

our daily interactions and in the way
we present ourselves in the world?

Yeah.

As you know, man, I founded KIND, the
healthy snack company that you, you like.

But I've also built a lot of civic
movements in the Middle East between

Arabs and Israelis, Palestinians
and Israelis working together, in

the United States, the Builders
Movement, which is what this spin is

about, to try to join forces against
extremism and towards solving problems.

What I started realizing is the same
toolkit and the same mindset that helped

me build KIND is the same toolkit that
helped me build movements and community.

And it's the four C's are curiosity,
compassion, creativity, and courage.

Curiosity to not assume that you have
all the answers, to search truth,

to want to always be proven right or
wrong so that you can always learn and

grow and, and develop the best ideas
for how to build the next snack or

the best solution for homelessness.

So curiosity is about the search for
truth, the search for commonality,

which also leads us to compassion, to
the ability to put yourself in other

people's shoes, not just because it's
the KIND thing to do, but because then

you can understand where the other
person's coming, and then you can navigate

differences and come up with solutions.

Creativity to think outside the box,
and the courage to take leadership

roles and to do things that might
sometimes be uncomfortable, to say

what needs to be said in a constructive
way to try to solve problems together.

We can be so busy and get so absorbed that
giving ourselves that little bit of grace

and time really can make a difference.

I appreciate that.

In your work you have done in
bridge-building, in building

businesses, what communication tools
do you recommend or have you found

can really help keep the conversation
moving forward, especially when you

see people slipping more into what
you call that destroyer mindset that's

dividing more than bringing together?

Probably the most important is
listening, is the ability for you

to, which is very hard for all of
us and particularly for me to do.

I always want to share, and I like to
hear my voice, and I have ideas, and

I think I know where people are going.

And you, as you know, I'm launching
a podcast called Build or Break,

interviewing some of the most
extraordinary people, from Matthew

McConaughey to Mark Cuban, from
Kendra Scott to Lucia Harish,

across a spectrum of business,
artistry, geographies, demographies.

And definitely, definitely the hardest
skill for me has been to learn to

listen, and I, I'm enjoying Build or
Break because it's so challenging for

me to not be the interviewee where I
can go everywhere else, and you're the

one that has to keep the train running.

So listening, I think, is an
incredibly powerful skill.

And even the use of pauses when you're
speaking, that negative space very

often creates a lot of positivity.

So I think the use of
pauses is very important.

I think more broadly in terms of
the communications tools that I

would recommend to others is first
and foremost, as much as possible,

practice, practice, practice.

In Build or Break, one of the things that
has become very clear to me is that all

of the most extraordinary people tried
a bunch of things that didn't work, but

they got back on the horse, they dusted it
off, and then they tried and tried again.

So developing the skills and the tools
for you to have the courage to get back on

the horse, keep trying, because the more
that you practice, the more reps that you

put into it, the better you'll get at it.

I think there's a lot to be said
for learning how to articulate,

how to be transparent, how to
construct sentences, but above

all, to not lose your authenticity.

To be yourself always.

Because I find that you can be very
polished, but if you lose the essence

of who you are, people are gonna tell.

So I think the single most
important thing is for you to be

authentic, for you to be yourself.

And then within that, be present
and be comfortable understanding

that you're there for a reason,
that people wanna hear you.

Very often we get nervous, and we
feel that we're not supposed to be

there, and so we speak very fast,
and then people can't understand you.

So slowing yourself down, being
present, and connecting with people,

listening to the audience and connecting
with them to understand what's the

right beat for your conversation.

Lots of rich responses and ideas there.

I really resonated with the idea
that pausing leads to positivity.

I like the play on words,
and I, and I like that.

Taking the, the beat to let
the other person finish, and

the ability to listen is hard.

I would like to get your thoughts
on business and building business.

Obviously, you have lots
of experience with that.

You have watched hundreds
of pitches on Shark Tank.

What is the most common communication
mistake entrepreneurs make when

they're trying to influence people
or move them towards their position?

The feeling that you need to be
right, and you need to demonstrate

mastery at all times no matter what,
can really be your greatest undoing.

If you do not know something, and you can
say, "That's a great question. I actually

don't have the answer to that," all of a
sudden I like that person, and I lean in.

I'm like, "Okay, when this person speaks,
I'm gonna trust what they say." By the

way, they should know their basic stuff.

But as a general rule, it's okay to
admit when somebody shares something

you haven't thought about or where
you don't have a perfect answer

to it, and you acknowledge it.

Because it goes back to what you
were talking about earlier about

the importance of introspection
and demonstrating self-reflection.

And so you, if you're able to show
the ability to, as you go along,

learn things that you need to learn,
I think it's a very important gift.

And the opposite, total certitude at
all times, for me, doesn't excite me.

So being human and, and admitting what
you know and what you don't know, and

putting on a false bravado or false
knowledge will get you in trouble.

I have often heard, and I'd be curious
to get your opinion, that, that people

in your position, investors, uh, you
know, supporters of, of businesses,

the idea is important, but the person
behind the idea is even more important.

Do you, do you believe that to be true?

I think for me and for almost
all investors, that's the case.

Like, obviously, there's three things
that fundamentally need to be there:

the person, the product, and the market.

Like, there needs to be a fit.

There's, somebody needs
to be looking for it.

The product or service needs to be
better than the others, and the person

or entrepreneur needs to be there.

Ideally, you have all three.

But if you don't have the entrepreneur,
you don't have anything, in my opinion.

Whereas if you have the entrepreneur
and the other two are weak, you

can work towards the others.

So I heard Warren Buffett talk
about this many years ago.

It's not unique.

Always you'd bet on an entrepreneur over
the product, because the entrepreneur

can then adjust the, to make things fit.

It's the most essential thing.

The reason I ask the question is I
think a lot of entrepreneurs, I do a

lot of coaching of people who pitch,
and a lot of them really fixate on the

product or the service, the market,
which are very important, as you said,

but they don't pay any attention to
how they themselves are, are selling

themselves and how they're coming across.

And what I'm hearing you say is it's
important to be authentic and let people

know who you are and where you stand.

I have a question about, uh,
building businesses and audiences.

Uh, you've built brands yourself
and, and you certainly coach others.

When you're building a brand's audience
from the ground up, how do you strike

that balance and manage that tension
between staying focused on your core

mission, but also being flexible enough
to respond to what the market demands?

That, that seems to be
a, a specific skill.

Almost all amazing ventures did
not start with a product or service

that they became successful at.

Almost every company, almost every
idea, you start something and every one

of the most inspiring entrepreneurial
people you've met, they start, they

fall from the horse, they get back
on, and then they take a different

journey, but then eventually they figure
it out because they don't give up.

In terms of building a brand, the
most important thing is to understand

that a brand is a promise, and a
great brand is a promise well kept.

What does that mean?

It means that a brand is a shortcut
for what can you expect from me?

What is my value proposition?

When you buy my KIND bar, this
is what you know you'll get.

When you buy this service, this
is what you'll know you'll get.

And so if you keep trying to reinvent
your brand to be everything to everybody,

you'll end up being nothing to nobody.

You need to be consistent.

And so what you need to do is
set a set of guardrails for what

my brand stands for and what it
will not do, and be true to it.

You need to get feedback from the
marketplace, and it's a very tricky dance

because if you say, "My brand is this,
I shall not adjust from it," and the

market is telling you, "Pivot, pivot,
adjust, adjust," and you're not willing

to listen, then you might also fail.

But on the other side, if every
person that talks to you, you're

trying to pivot and you're trying
to change yourself every single day,

you're also gonna become nothing.

So you need to find a way
to stay true to your values.

And then if at some point the feedback
is significant enough that justifies

calibration, make sure that it's not
a daily calibration, but a really,

really rare thing that can help
get you into the right direction.

But it, it has to be, there has to
be a lot of reflection into when

do you deviate from the guardrails
that you set for yourself?

I really like this idea
of brand as a promise.

It's a shortcut to what
it is that you believe in.

That's really important.

And that tension of being committed
and dedicated to your values, the

guardrails, as you said, but at the same
time being open and flexible to input

and making those wise decisions based
on that, really important, uh, to help

navigate as things change, and they will.

Daniel, I know you have a very specific
process that you use to help people

think through their entrepreneurial
ideas or products or services.

Can you share that with us, please?

I love my C's.

I have the builder's mindset four C's,
but I also have three C's for the creative

process of an entrepreneur, and this
is a very, very important set of C's.

Whatever you're trying to do, whether
it's to come up with a product or

an idea or a creative campaign,
you have to start with the creative

process, then go into the critical
process, and then into the crusader.

So during the creative process, it's
your brainstorming phase, and the

rule is that there are no rules.

You have to force yourself to
come up with idea after idea

after idea and push yourself.

And if you're in a brainstorming room
with others or with yourself in your

mind, you have to say, "Nothing's off.

Come up.

Start thinking.

Let's throw an idea.

Okay, let's do this.

Let's throw this product.

No, what if it had this?

What if it had giant tears?

What if it was a camel walking the
streets of Manhattan?" Almost by

definition, think so much outside
the box that your idea is ridiculous.

Nobody's thought about this before.

That's where you can defeat AI, because
AI is a conglomeration of prior ideas,

but you need to think about something
that nobody's ever thought before for

you to really, really create value.

Then after you've done your creative
process, you take a break, 'cause

during the creative process, you
cannot introduce any filters that

will take out any of that creativity.

You write down everything,
the stupidest idea.

You write down everything.

That's the creative process.

You take a break, you come
back, and you introduce the

critic, the consummate critic.

And so the consummate critic,
you apply a bunch of filters.

Has somebody done it before?

Do I have the capability to do it?

Does it make sense?

Is it gonna fit with what I'm meant to do?

Do I believe in it?

What's the cost-benefit analysis?

What's the input-output analysis?

Does it, like, you ask all of the
questions about whether it makes sense.

Can you execute it?

Is it fun?

Does it fit with your brand?

You introduce all the filters that
you want, and you go through all

of the list, and you apply the
filters, and then you narrow it down.

For example, when I was launching
Moshe Pupik and Ali Mishmuken’s,

somebody, one of my team members said,
"Let's have a camel walking through

the streets of Manhattan." And we're
like, "Yeah, whatever." Wrote it down.

And they're like, "That
would be so funny."

And we ultimately ended up having
a camel walking through the streets

of Manhattan, and it was hilarious,
and it got so much media attention

'cause nobody had done it before.

And so sometimes the silliest
idea actually is executable.

So you go from the creative process to
the consummate critic, and then after the

consummate critic, you go to the crusader.

So particularly if you, it's, if it's
not just a stunt, but a product or a

service or a venture that you wanna start
and you're brainstorming on what you're

gonna do, you really need to go through
the critical phase enough that you're

doing a lot of competitive intelligence
and you're asking a lot of questions to

really understand that you've got what it
takes, and this is what gives you purpose,

and this is what you really wanna do.

But if you've gone through that
intellectual trial by fire and

you're still convinced, at that
point you switch and you go from the

consummate critic to the crusader.

That means you are gonna get it
done and you're not gonna give up.

You're not gonna give up easily.

You're not gonna give up ever.

You're gonna get through it because
any entrepreneur, any venture person

that's trying to do, build a social
enterprise, a civic organization,

a business, it is not easy.

It's gonna be harder
than you ever imagined.

And so you need to have the grit,
the gumption, the staying power to

overcome any of those challenges.

So that's where once you've gone through
those difficult questions to yourself

and you've convinced yourself that
it's worth doing, you then click the

switch and you're like, "All right. Now
I need to believe in myself and get it

done and, and not be easily derailed."

The three C's of creativity, critic,
and crusader really allow us to move

and get the momentum we need to be
successful, and it seems to me that

there are very specific gates that
you go through and then switch, so

you're not traversing back and forth.

And I like that point you said that
when you go from creativity to critic,

you actually need to take a break.

You need to actually switch those gears.

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Well, Daniel, this has been great.

Before we end, as you well know,
I like to ask three questions.

One I make up just for you, and
the rest I've been asking as

long as the show's been around.

Are you up for this?

Absolutely.

Excellent.

Um, I found so many things
about your history fascinating.

Uh, you're the son of
a Holocaust survivor.

You have working knowledge
of over 40 languages.

That's amazing.

But perhaps most interesting to
me is you're a lifelong magician.

Uh, early in my childhood, I
was fascinated by magic, took

classes, put on shows, but you've
been doing this your whole life.

How has your practice of magic
influenced your understanding of

audiences, engagement, storytelling,
and, and even communication?

100%. A lot of what I love the
most is goes back to my dad

because he taught me magic.

You know, he didn't have a childhood
because he went through the war and he

was in a concentration camp, and he was
then liberated by American soldiers.

When he started, growing up back when
he immigrated to Mexico, he discovered

magic, and then he taught me some of it.

And for me, I still today
think about him when I do it.

Without any doubt, magic is a very
powerful tool for understanding

people because a, a lot of magic
is about psychology and for

example, the art of misdirection.

I have here the Builder's logo,
and I'm gonna show you how I

grab it, and it disappears, but
it was right here all along.

And the way it works is I am convinced,
and where I look, you're gonna look.

So I have it right here.

I put it here, but I'm looking
with my eyes here, and you see me

looking, and you see me pointing here.

You see this vehicle?

It's pointing here.

My eyes are pointing here.

So you think it's here,
but it wasn't here.

I, I had kept it here.

And where your eyes go,
the other person's go.

So I've been in board meetings.

I discovered this when I was
having board meetings at KIND,

and sometimes I wanted one of my
team members to get the attention,

but everybody was looking at me.

I started looking at my team
member, and everybody started

looking at my team member.

So where your eyes go as a
leader, other peoples will follow.

And so the way you look has
enormous power to empower your team.

It's really fascinating.

If anybody tries it, it's
really, really effective.

I love how you've connected, uh,
magic, attention, uh, words, uh,

together to really help people, uh,
one, have enjoyment when it's a magic

show, but two, to actually learn and
be connected to what you're saying.

Question number two, who is a
communicator that you admire and why?

My father was the person that I
admired the most because the way

he communicated was by being the
single best listener that I ever met.

And he was a great coach.

Like, he would listen, and the
way he would communicate is by

helping me communicate with myself.

Like, I would ask him for advice,
and he would reflect, and then

would ask me questions that
would help me derive the answers.

It's a real, real talent, and it's
very hard, and I would love to

develop that skill that he has.

But I've yet to become a great coach.

I'm very good at telling you what to
do, but in terms of helping you figure

it out on your own, that's next level.

I really like that I asked you a question
about a communicator, and you immediately

went to somebody who listens and
coaches, which, which is not typically

where people go with that question.

But, uh, like you, I would
argue that the ability to listen

and coach is, are essential.

Well, final question for you, Daniel.

What are the first three ingredients that
go into a successful communication recipe?

Self-confidence, practice, and meaning.

And I think this one helps the others.

But self-confidence, like believe
that you're there for a reason and

people are there to listen to you.

Own the room.

Be present.

Practice, practice, practice,
particularly your communication.

Practice makes perfect.

And then find something that
authentically gives you purpose and

meaning, because if you do, you're
gonna be able to break through walls.

So have confidence in yourself and
your message, practice to make sure

it comes out the way you wish, and
to really do something that you're

focused on and means a lot to you.

Thank you so much for your time and
for sharing how we can all be builders

of the ideas and the products and
services that we have, and for sharing

with us a little bit about the impact
that magic can have across building

bridges and breaking down barriers.

I appreciate your time.

Matt, thank you so much.

It was a pleasure.

Thank you for joining us
for another episode of Think

Fast, Talk Smart, The Podcast.

I really enjoyed speaking
with Daniel across all of the

advice and guidance he gave.

Among the ideas he shared that
really stood out to me was the idea

that your brand is your promise.

We really have to reflect on the
promise we're making as we look at

our personal and company brands.

To learn more about leadership and
staying true to your principles,

please listen to Tara VanDerveer
in episode one fifty-three.

This episode was produced by
Katherine Reed, Ryan Campos, Alex

McCarthy, and me, Matt Abrahams.

Our music is from Floyd
Wonder, with special thanks

to the Podium Podcast Company.

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