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Welcome to Coffee Can't Fix Everything, a unique podcast where we delve into the complex and often misunderstood world of mental health, all over a comforting cup of coffee. In each episode, we sit down with a steaming brew to have candid, heart-to-heart conversations about various aspects of mental health.
00:00
Hello everybody, thank you for listening to Coffee Can't Fix Everything. This is a show where we talk about mental health over a cup of coffee. And today I have my... We've been connected for a long time. Yeah, I just want a fangirling. I've been fangirling you for a while. Oh no, I just appreciate your allyship. Like there are some people who are like, oh yeah, they're an ally, but you know.
00:27
Right. And that's, I think that, yeah, the, um...
00:32
there's that extra step and extra level to, like we were just talking about, the like, okay, anybody can go and post and comment on it. It's the showing up, it's the doing the work, and the work that people don't see and you don't get credit for, and that's the whole idea, right? Absolutely. Of making change, I guess. Or changing yourself, even. Changing yourself. I think changing yourself is...
00:59
It's easier said than done. And I know when we spoke, it was, there's a lot of change going on, right? Physically, mentally, emotionally, everybody's going through some type of change. And as someone like yourself that is going through it, going through, or have gone through that change, well, let me ask you this question first.
01:23
I know change is in your eyes a very positive thing. You've gone through a lot of good work. What was that like at first, the middle, and where you're at now? Oh my gosh, that's a good question because...
01:38
I'll start before the whole kind of change in most recent times, but when I was a kid we moved around a lot. My dad just was kind of moving in his career up and so we moved like four times before I graduated high school. And at the time I just remember being like, oh man, you gotta start over, you know. And then as I became older I realized the resiliency that had given me, the ability to walk into a room, and as my husband says, like being an extrovert where he's, you know,
02:08
to burn it. And he's like, well, let you introduce me. You do all that. Because I just feel like friends, right? Yeah. So I could see the benefits of it. Right. So I think when I was doing it, going through it, kind of the same thing, sometimes I would say your body knows what you need before you know what you need. And so I was just putting one foot in front of the other because I'm doing certain things and making decisions because my body was like, you cannot do this anymore. And then it was only afterward that I think I would process.
02:38
and be like, oh, I needed to do that because I can mentally kind of catch up to what my body was just saying. And then I was able to find the benefits of kind of why I had to do all of it. Right, right. So we got cameo from Drew. Right, so processing.
02:59
And was it kind of finding your why? What it sounds like? Yeah. So, you know, really what really the impetus for me was in 2021. My dad unexpectedly passed away in December right before the holidays. And no, he was in great health, wasn't a heart attack, wasn't a stroke. He literally just stopped breathing, stopped beating, and he was no longer with us. And that in.
03:29
itself was a whole triggering event. Shortly thereafter, I was diagnosed with a rare kidney disease that required me to go on some serious medication for a number of months that affected my body in lovely ways that nobody wants. Right about then I was like 41, 42. I'm already dealing with being 41, 42 and now I have this other stuff going on. I'm processing emotionally
03:59
working just crazy hours. And I think my body was basically like, you can't do this anymore. This is just not, you know, all of those things. Like I said, my body knew what I needed before I did. And so I got to the point where I just realized, A, I didn't want to get to be 68 like my dad had been. And he'd kind of been just a couple years outside of retirement, built a retirement home.
04:29
I wanted to enjoy life and I wanted to be and enjoy my family more so than anything. I could see that my family was struggling. My son was in school and college at that point and I have a stepson at home and wanted to be more a part of his later years in high school and my marriage was struggling. I think my husband and I are both pretty open and honest about that and so again my body
04:59
like you cannot keep this pace up. And then in addition you know when you gain a bunch of weight because you're on a bunch of heavy steroids for a number of weeks I had to reframe almost everything I understood about my body and who I was and what success meant for me in terms of how I looked and so I just I somebody used a phrase the other day and I think it was helpful because it was like I was
05:29
But I did come home at one point from work one day. I'd been traveling around the state, saw a job opening, and that was it. I was kind of like, all right, I'm done. And I applied then, right? I think it was interview the next week and started a new career within weeks. Wow, wow. It's so interesting to me when you think about change and you think about all the metaphors
05:59
change and all this it when I hear somebody's story about how they got from where they where this change started to where they are now it was always some kind of difficult situation
06:13
You know what I mean? I wish I had the answer for that. That is what keeps me up at night, is how can we get people from point A to point B without having to go through the hard stuff. If we had the answer for that. My gosh. Right? Like, how could you have this realization without having to feel the pain? But I think that's part of it, is you have to go through the experience of whatever it is to see. My family calls me now on the other side of this, and this has now been, you know, almost three years.
06:43
Jill 2.0 and I got a question the other day from somebody though of what of what was Jill 1.0 like, you know She this like awful terrible person But I think I was very focused on The wrong priorities. Yeah priorities change. Yeah, and so that is done the biggest driver of you go through the bad stuff and you realize like oh a
07:13
is things could happen and or things could be gone or things could be worse or you know and I don't want to lose any of the good stuff I have. Right. So you're this new person now and with change.
07:25
Obviously there's things we have to leave behind, but some of those things are fun and good and we'd like them How has that been other things in your life they like man Jill 1.0 really loved this But you you know Jill 2.0 can't have it. What is how is that like for you?
07:47
I have had to reorganize my life around my family, which I should say I have had to. I reorganize my life around my family. I tell people if it's five o'clock, my life starts at five. That's what identifies me. I love what I do for my job, but that's not who I am. And I loved who I was before, as Jill one point.
08:17
know and I was really firmly identified and rooted in that identity and I had to let go of who that person was and kind of the trajectory that person was on. That was tough because I went to grad school for that job that was like this is the job that I wanted to get and so to get to a point where you kind of I didn't I don't want to say walk away because I feel like everything is a learning experience that leads to the next thing but to get to a point where you leave that behind.
08:47
But also, and my husband was really good about saying once, yes, I think it's okay to grieve, but I hope at some point you get really excited for what's to come. Oh, yeah. So yes, there's things you leave behind, but I way rather align my identity with my family and anything I do after five o'clock than when we say, what is it that you do when people ask you that question I start with? Well, I'm a mom, a partner, stepmom.
09:17
and I like to support people and connect people. Yeah, I'm trying to do that more, Jill, because I don't know if it's a cultural thing or like whatever but whenever you whenever you meet somebody new, so tell me about yourself. You insert the first thing is what you do for work.
09:36
Yeah. And you're right, that's not, I love what I do, but it's not who I'm more than that. Back to the storytelling too, I was saying like, I sat in a really good session at a conference last week and it was a comedian who basically uses storytelling and the ways of building a joke and comedy to coach people to kind of answer that question. Which I thought was super unique and hilarious. But you know, how, when somebody asks you what you do and say you're a financial planner,
10:06
You can be like, I'm a financial planner. Or you can be like, I have people's dreams come true. You know? So just a different way that you look at yourself. And I also feel like it emboldened me to look at myself as my whole self too. And not just like, here's what I do for eight hours a day. Well, here's what I do for the rest of it, you know? That gave me so much more power. And that was the other thing too, I would say, is Jill 2.0 is not as toned as Jill 1.0 was.
10:36
afraid to say the things that need to be said. Did you have the build to that? I'm glad you brought this up about the courage. Did you have the build to that? Was that something you feel like it was already in you but it was just I don't know kind of you kind of set it on the bench for a little bit? Like how was that? Well I think it's maybe part of my nature was it's always been there but I was raised to be nice, quiet, and polite
11:06
And my dad was a great dad, my parents were great parents, but nice, quiet, polite. That's a weird word to have. And I think it was right around 2022 where I was like, nothing I've ever done where I was successful was because I was nice or quiet or polite. I wasn't mean. I just wasn't like, okay, thank you, appreciate it. And so, you know, you read all those like memes or whatever where like they talk about
11:36
you know if you're late for a meeting which I know I was extremely late the first time we met so like take this to the greatest salt. I wasn't going to say anything. Yeah okay. I'm going to out myself. I'm fully accountable for it 100%. But and I don't think I did this this day but you know where you say instead of like oh I'm sorry I'm late thank you for waiting for me. Right. Like just the rephrase. So I don't feel like you have to be mean it's just a matter of like how can you be more direct about your intentions.
12:06
what you need to say and how can you and this is the one thing I think I notice more than anything is that people expect you not to say anything when they've you're in a situation where maybe you've been wronged or they did something kind of like not cool. Yep. You just kind of expect you just be like whatever and I just stopped being whatever. I was like no not cool. Yeah. So I think that side of me came out a little bit more.
12:36
What I'm learning and I'm starting to get better at as I change into my 2.0 is not to pick on Jill about being late. I'm here for it. I'm here for it. Jill 2.0 accepts accountability. Love it, love it. But understanding that people are going through their own things. Yeah. So, and one,
13:06
evening I had time so I wasn't like oh that's cool I'm in my I'm at the slow down like I'm in my second office second home I'm like I'm just chilling right but there are situations where someone may be late to something and I'm like normally I'm like you know one wanted me to be at this meeting and now you're the one ten minutes late and I'm like I'm getting all annoyed but I'm like hey
13:31
You never know what someone's going through. So I'm not going to lose my cool. That is a big, I think, giving people the benefit of the doubt. Yes. If we could all just do that and stop creating the narratives. And we are big people at our house for creating narratives about, you did this, and I know it's because you blah, blah, blah. And so trying to be like, I think they did this. I could usually walk back why people did certain things, especially in my family.
14:01
You're like, I know they have the best intentions here. Right. And so that has diffused so many more situations. But also then, I think to your point, too, of like you realize also how people feel when they're on the other side of that. And it made me early for today. I was like, I'm going to be there on time. I'm going to be early. So you know, Jill 2.0, accountability, and also self-reflection and learning, I think are also two big things. All great things.
14:31
to add to your toolbox when you're changing to a better person. But also admitting when you're wrong. I think that is the other biggest thing. I've been really, I've tried to be really good about saying like, I was wrong, I'm sorry. And just like, a good apology. And no, no but, no, you know? Yes, thoughtfulness, just being thoughtful. Yeah, if we could all be better at apologies. Yes. Not that I'm like amazing, but the but with the apology.
15:01
We talk about that a lot in our house of like, no but, no but, just say sorry. Just say sorry and move on. Yeah. So we're trying a lot of those things. That's the thing though that I've noticed is our family, and I would say like, oh, Jill 2.0 is responsible for it, but I will say like our dynamic and our family has gotten so much stronger and I think that was the thing. Again, my body kind of knew like something needs to change. And we as...
15:31
time my stepson messed up at school. I'm trying not to out him here. It's not snitch on the stepson. No, no, no. Great kid. Love him dearly. But he called my son, who's in college, and I happened to be standing outside of his room when he did, and we were kind of all like, why would you do this, blah, blah, blah. And actually, the more we learned about it, the more I could trace back his intentions. But he called my son for help.
16:00
any admitted vulnerability and said, hey I messed up and I need help can you tell me how I should handle this and I was like wow you're not in trouble anymore it's fine. So those are the things I could see changing just by the change of allowing people myself to be vulnerable and our family to be vulnerable and admit when we're wrong, make mistakes and I think that just wasn't an element that we had before. Right. Can we talk a little bit about
16:30
little bit about the comfort of not changing. So like if yeah right if you were to talk to somebody who man being even just being in your own crap even though it stinks it's your crap and it's cozy and you don't want and you don't want to move but
16:54
What would you say to someone that's in that, kind of there right now, and kind of help get them out of that?
17:03
honest? It's a hard question. Yeah, because like I've been in that situation. I have friends in those places and it's hard. You like I've seen people who are like I know it's gonna be so much better for you on the other side of this and you have to have that experience where it sucks first before you get to the point where you're ready. So again I go back to like how can I solve that where they don't have to it doesn't have to suck for them. I know and I have a lot
17:33
that are stuck there too or have gotten out of it. And there's one thing that has really helped me stay out of that for too long, Jill. I was, um, Jennifer Lewis. She had, she was on an interview. I'll send it to you if I remember, but she said, um, they were talking about mental health and she says, um, you stay in your crap too long. She didn't say crap. She said other words.
17:58
But this goes on YouTube. I'm not trying to get... she said if you stay in your crap too long it stops stinking. And I'm like yo, that is so real. It gets normal. It gets so normal. And as funny as it sounds, I took that and I'm like you know what, I don't want to stay in the funk so long to where I don't smell anymore. Like it's there, I need to start...
18:25
How do I get out of this? And adding those things to my tool belt to get out of a funk as soon as possible. Yeah. I think that's a good.
18:37
That makes sense. I mean, I think the one thing that I've seen people who have been in those spaces and then they come together, and even, you know, me, for sure. I've had these realizations of, I had no idea it was so bad. I had no idea that this could be better. Or it didn't have to be so hard. So just knowing that...
18:59
when I freed up sort of all of the time and energy that all of the things that I was giving priority or Prioritizing were taking and then I could shift that somewhere else and then that made that somewhere else like way better, right? I was like, oh This is like so much easier. First of all, right? Second of all It's just life is not such a Climb but I thought it had to be I didn't think I had another choice
19:29
hear people say like, oh, I'm stuck where I'm here. And I always kind of say like, no, you know, that's the end. The story you're telling yourself. When I was 23, I was a young mom. I was a single mom. I moved to Denver by myself. I always tell the story. I lived in a one-bedroom basement apartment with my kid. I worked for a company that I got on a job interview, a phone interview, from Monster.com. I don't even know if Monster's still on that. Is this still a thing? I don't know. I think it is.
19:58
Side and see. They never met me, they hired me, I moved to Denver, live in a one bedroom apartment with my kid. So if I can do that, like people, you know, so I think it's a matter of kind of that, mine never matters. And you gotta get to the space where you're ready to do it. Yeah. So how do you get to that next step? How do you get to that space? And I think the only one who can answer that is the person going through it. Yeah.
20:28
Everybody has a story of how they're able to get through change, but everybody's story is different, it has different nuances and different little things. Yeah, you know what somebody said to me though the other day that I thought was really helpful of change being such a bad word for people. And for me I was like, wow, I welcome, in fact I get bored if I've lived somewhere more than five years. My husband knows, I get a little antsy. I'm like, I know all the restaurants in this neighborhood, we should move. Yeah, it's time to go. Yeah. But, um.
20:57
Change is usually hard for people because they've had it put on them, forced onto them. It was never their choice. Yeah. And so when you can empower them, and it is their choice, it is their, you know, they can choose their own adventure. But the other thing that this person said was, how can we also make it human? And less of this like big bad word and talk about, like you said, how are you feeling during this process? Like, there were days I woke up.
21:27
during the medication that I was on. And I hated how I looked. I hated that I knew everybody could see and didn't know I wasn't out there being like carrying a sign and I'm like, I have a rare kidney disease. That's why I've gained 20 pounds in two weeks. And so if people would just ask me, I would have said, I would have been like, hey, here's the deal, here's what's going on with me. And I think that being able to talk about it just would have helped.
21:57
help people be more human through whatever change they're going through. Yeah. I did. There was one time I had on a Zoom call, somebody was like...
22:07
Are you okay? Oh, right. And I'm just like as insulted as I am by them. Yeah. Instead of knowing they're thinking it and just not saying anything. Right, right. Yeah. And so, you know, again, just how can we help people be the hero of their own change story? Yes. How can they be the hero of their own story? What advice would you give somebody who is, um,
22:37
going through that process of change. They're on the other side now, right? And I can only imagine, I mean, just from my own experience, as I'm trying to change things about myself, and you're like, okay, I'm over that hurdle, it still doesn't feel good, like you still have like, okay, I'm over the hurdle, but like, I know.
22:59
there's still some things to work through. Like, oh yeah, it's one overnight. It's not like, I switched. There's a really good Brandy Carlile song, and it talks about, if you've experienced me this way, that wasn't me. That's what the song is called. If you've experienced me this way, that's me. And I love that song because it is very much like, Jill 1.0, Jill 2.0. And I think I would still come across people who had experienced me a certain way. And...
23:29
And it's very easy to get kind of pulled back into that. And for a while I did. And so it's like there was these loose ends. And it's not nice clean cut corners. So I think to like, I always call it, you're kind of gyroscoping into place and trying to figure out where is it that I'm landing in this new world, this new 2.0 land. Who am I? Really, you're rewiring. So what is that objective that you want to, who do you want to be?
23:59
putting it down on paper. Who is it? How do you want to show up? And then using that, it's just like you would a mission statement. Sounds super corny, but. Yo, it's real. Every leadership. Write it down. What is your mission statement? And it sounds like, again, yeah, I know it sounds corny, but it works. It works. That's the, again, anytime I hear that song, it kind of brings me back to, am I fulfilling these objectives of who I really want to show up as
24:29
I journal a lot though too. That's been my biggest and out of that what's been really great is I've been able to reread some of that and then Go back and be like, oh, I'm not in that space anymore I was there, you know a couple months ago and I thought that was good, right? Here I am. So you can also see the progress too which allows you to give Yourself just the pat on the back. There's a really good book called the gap in the game the gap in the game
24:59
about just mentality of you can either talk about like how far you have to go or how far you come and it's a mindset type of thing. And I think that's the journaling and being able to look back has been helpful for me to be like okay I feel like a hot mess today. But man back in March. Yeah. You know what's so beautiful about that too is when
25:24
When we're changing, we're going through some of those things, I know there are moments where I'm going to take two steps back, but I know I don't have to stay there. So I feel like change is very fluid. It's not like, okay, I'm here Monday, Tuesday, I've changed, therefore not going back.
25:43
It's probably going to happen a couple of times, but I know I'm only going to stay in that situation. Yeah, and that's the thing. It's like we all get to show up the best we are on any given day, and that just might be who we are. I've had a very good therapist for lots of years, and she just kind of said like, some days you might just give 60 percent. Might be all you have to give. That's all you have to give. And I was like, you know, I'm going to try not to show up 60 percent the majority of the time, but I'm going to allow myself. That's the other thing is allowing yourself to also be like, yeah, here's where I'm at today.
26:13
That was the other thing of Jill 1.0 really beat herself up when she made mistakes, when she... It's just lots of negative self-talk. I mean, I think we all have that. I'm better at talking myself through it, but just not getting myself so down. One of the really good techniques somebody taught me once, I still kind of think of it this way, was like, all right, if I think about the day and my quarters of a football
26:43
you know first quarter second quarter not great but I still got another half you still got another half? so I can save it yes and at that if you hey you got you've always another game too right exactly this season wasn't great for us we're gonna recruit some new tools so you just are always you know looking forward to new growth the next stage um it's always an evolution um I've been kind of writing um like
27:12
in the first iteration of my book I think I even shared with you I've totally scrapped because it was like I have arrived I know everything I am giving you advice then I was like I mean I'm happy to share what I've learned in certain things but I also am learning so and I think that's part of it.
27:37
just every day I wake up and I'm like, oh, brand new information today about myself that I didn't know. So at least my next question, as you embrace change obviously, and I'm sure you're excited for that next change, that next better version of yourself, are there, if you were able to give your future self advice, what would that look like? I think...
28:06
the future self-advice and this is what I'm leaning into more and more. So to your point of like, you know, I might show up that way tomorrow and I might not show up that way for another month. Who knows, you know.
28:23
to be less and less worried about what people think in positions of power. Talk about that. I think we are very socialized to see people in positions of power as having certain control and in certain ways they do over certain things and that is a built-in threat.
28:51
Right. And the more I've experienced kind of speaking back to that, now obviously not always, like I have privilege obviously, but the more I've experienced being able to speak back to that and not have, not be, you know, punished essentially, the more I'm like, oh, you mean I could have been doing this the whole time? Right. I could have been saying my opinion the whole time? What have I been doing? What's going on here?
29:21
And so I think just using my privilege, using my space in the world to say more about what needs to happen, what I see wrong, lifting people into spaces that normally may not get connected into that space and focusing on not worrying about how it looks. That's probably the biggest thing. And you know, whether that's family or work or even a community of people.
29:51
that I've been spending my life trying to impress, you know? And now I can say like, hey, I don't need this validation. It is what it is, yeah. And there's power in that. Like, you don't have this power over me anymore. It's cool. I think for me as a female, too, that's, again, go back to the nice, quiet, and polite. That's how we were built to come into society.
30:21
my family anyway in particular. Right. And so that has been the biggest sort of learning. And so my future self, I would just say, say what you need to say, do what you need to do. Because it turns out nobody cared anyway. So might as well. Yes. And on that, we're going to end it. I love that. Jill, thank you so much. Yes. Thank you so much. I love all that you do. You know, I'm a huge fan.
30:51
And I cannot wait for November. November 15th. My city, my health. If you're in Des Moines, check it out. It's going to be... It sounds like it's going to be even bigger and better. It's going to be amazing. I'm so excited. Everybody, thank you for watching Coffee Can't Fix Everything. I am not a therapist. If you need support, there will be links in the description of this episode. Coffee Can't Fix Everything. But we will have the conversation, one coffee at a time.
31:20
I'll see you next time.