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Ever wonder what ICMP Music School students get up to after they graduate? This series of podcasts explores just that. We'll be interviewing graduates from across our portfolio of music courses in this insightful series.
Welcome to the what's next podcast. The function of this podcast
Speaker 2:is they help current students have a better understanding of the career options available to them after they finish their studies as well as being aware of the resources and support that they have to assist them in their journey from the start to the end and beyond their studies here at ICMP. So today we have another episode of what's next. And we're joined by a very special guest, and I'm gonna get him to introduce himself.
Speaker 3:Alright. So my name is Chris Jarvis. I studied at ICMP back in 2018 to 2019 doing, masters in popular music performance. I currently work as a customs assistant officer for HMRC, and that was for my day job. And I also I'm also a session musician in my spare time.
Speaker 2:Wonderful stuff. Wonderful stuff. So let's kind of dive into that. So, obviously, you do 2 two roles. So what what does your average day to day look like?
Speaker 3:So most of my days really persist of either coming into the office or just opening the laptop of at home. So either way, I'm always just answering emails after inquiries, just ordering this, doing that, speaking to different departments. Within within the government departments or the external departments, just people that work within our team just to help just deal with custom goods that are coming into the country. So these vary. So it's it's so it's stuff that people mainly order off Amazon when it comes from, like, a Chinese trader or whatnot that they come through us just to ensure that these products are genuine and people aren't thinking that they ordered from Wish when they get the items to their door.
Speaker 3:Yes. It's so sort of things that I do. And, obviously, with the music job, as as most people do, most gigs occur around the evening time. So the evening time, I'll probably be at home, like, practicing or be at rehearsals or be at a gig. Most of my gigs happen on during the weekend anyway because those are the gigs that I would obviously make up for.
Speaker 3:But, obviously, there are some times where I do book time off work so I can attend, like, the upscale gigs and so forth. So, yeah, that's pretty much my day to day.
Speaker 2:No. Thanks for sharing that. I think that also then then begs, another question then. So in terms of the 1st year after you graduated, did you go straight into, doing session musician work as your, like, hey, that's the thing I wanna kinda go straight into, or is it kind of like, I can still do my session musician work, but I'm gonna find an alternative job to, yeah, just to kind of focus on the financial side as well.
Speaker 3:So to be honest with you, the the alternative job happened whilst I was finishing my studies. So it's just a matter of the continuation. So, obviously, when I was studying in ICMP, I was still doing some musical gigs, like, on the side as well. So I just I just think that this, in a way, is preparation for me to balance the alternative job group as well as keeping up with my social music session. Right?
Speaker 3:Session, mutual sessions. And it's just a way for me to be able to fund my way, like, you know, get into rehearsals, buying equipment, or buying the maintenance service for those equipment as well. And so it's something that I like to prepare, like, before things happen, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:No. That definitely makes sense. I think even as you said, the maintenance of the equipment, I think quite often it can be easy to forget that you need to have money to either purchase more equipment or to fix and maintain the equipment you have. I guess irrespective of what instrument you play because if you wanted to do music then, you know, you need to be able to maintain maintain your stuff.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:So focusing or kind of zoning on the the music aspect. I guess as you work as a session musician, quite often you can get different opportunities depending on your experience and how many you're gonna play in and, the the networks that you've build up built up. So how how did you find saying no to an opportunity, especially when money was involved? Did you find it easy say no? Or was it kind of like something you had to kind of learn how to, adjust to when to say yes and when to say no?
Speaker 3:So when you when when you take when you look at this opportunity and when you no need to say no, you have to evaluate the situation. So first of all, you just you look at the opportunity. Look at the gig that you're about to do. You look at what that's required from you. So in terms of how many songs you have to do, when or where the place is, how long you're gonna be playing, how much they're paying you, and then if they're rehearsals, how many rehearsals there are, what is required from you.
Speaker 3:There are times where I've taken on gigs yet, but I have regret. I'm just saying I'm just saying this out out of honesty. There are some gigs I've taken out of regret, and that is because although the money looks good, the gig looks good, but it takes a lot out of you. Like, it burns you out because you've been rehearsing for, like, maybe 12 hours or so. And then you're coming home tired.
Speaker 3:And then and you have to travel as for a for a specific amount of time, and that pretty much adds to your time. So regardless of how much they're paying you, sometimes you have to make a judgment whether you can physically or mentally be able to be prepared for it. When you have to when when say you know, you gotta think about yourself because whoever asks you to do a gig for this amount of money, they're thinking about the gig, and you're just an extra in their script. That sometimes you have something to be careful about when you have to think about the people who asked you as well because they they may only want you for what you can do. Right?
Speaker 3:They only want you for your skills, your talent, your ability. But sometimes they don't really look at the well-being because they only see you as a musician. But it's important as as well as they give you the opportunity for what you can do, you still have to remember you're a human being. And so it's very important that you got to have a full evaluation of the company that you keep or the company that approaches you before you say yes. And, also, also, it's important that you just ask around.
Speaker 3:Ask around people who have done it before. Let them know their input. If they tell you, look. It's no good. Don't bother.
Speaker 3:The money's good, but I was drained. I am hardly been home. I forgot to do this, this, and that. So, yes, it's just important to do your thorough investigation on the opportunity. Make sure it's all legit.
Speaker 3:Whether the money is good or not, make sure it's all legit because you can say yes to a lot of things. Even if you are desperate for gigs, like, it's always important to look after yourselves because we know we've read many articles and many stories, like, in the music industries where art has just lost it, And it's very easy to be to end up like one of them if we're not too careful about what we say yes to. So it's fixed. So that's my that's my perspective. It's very important to have a full evaluation of the opportunity so you know exactly when to say no to in order to protect yourself.
Speaker 2:No. Absolutely. Now thank you for sharing that. That's really I guess that's really important to to remember because, yeah as you said the money, the money can look good.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:But at what cost does it come at you being able to kind of earn that money? Like are you being burnt out as a result to get this income or rate or fee that you're getting? And is it worth the the toll that it will take on you mentally, emotionally, physically?
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:And if the answer's no, then then that's your, yeah, that sounds like that's your answer. Just say to say no,
Speaker 3:it's not
Speaker 2:worth it.
Speaker 3:Sometimes the simple gigs are the best gigs.
Speaker 2:Exactly. Exactly. I guess, so staying on that same same on that same topic then. So while looking at the aspects of well-being, so do you think that and especially this now as being, whether it's a freelance or session musician or session singer, do you think physical health is important to maintain, mental well-being as a creative?
Speaker 3:I would I would think so. I would think so. Yes. Because because I would say from personal experience, if something's not right with my body, it does affect me mentally. Say for instance, if I get up in the morning and I'm feeling crummy and I'm feeling heavy, like, you know, like, it's like something's just pushing you down on the bed.
Speaker 3:It will force you to get up. Or if I can't even just open my eyes or being able to speak, then that's well, that's gonna make me feel. If I'm a singer and I wake up, you know, sounding harsh, and I know that I've got a big gig coming up. I know that's gonna affect me mentally because I could lose money. I could lose the opportunity to network and a golden opportunity to be at a particular stage where you're bound to get further jobs.
Speaker 3:And with me, obviously, I'm a musician. So I rely on my limbs. I rely on my hands. You know? I rely on, you know, pretty much all my body functions to work.
Speaker 3:And if I wake up, yeah, unable to move my arm properly because I have arms and I have some sorts of spasms on my thumb or whatnot, then that's clearly going to affect my ability to play. And in that sense, that will affect me mentally because it's the one thing that I love doing is playing music. And if my body doesn't allow me to do so, then that's gonna affect me mentally. I'll be a nervous wreck. So I think also the physical health can be affected by things happening in our personal lives.
Speaker 3:Another thing that we often need to look at is, again, the company we keep. If friends are really our our friends or if if something's going on at in our homes or, you know, whatever our living situation is because certain living situations do make an impact into our into our musical performances where it's where it's how we perform on stage or what songs we write or what songs we just sing. It's just there's a lot of these factors that are put into place, and I think we all need to be careful and we'll be mindful of what we allow in our bodies physically and spiritually and mentally because it's all factors that could bring an effect on our physical health in the end.
Speaker 2:So staying on that same topic. So for you personally, so how are you how do you find that you're able to switch from your work mindset, whether that's through preparing for a gig or even just a job you're doing to just your everyday mindset, such being able to switch off. How do you find be how do you find the switch of work and then just rest?
Speaker 3:Well, it'll start simple, really. Like, I see my keyboard, and if I'm ready just to switch off, simple is to switch the keyboard off, pack it away. What I used to have in my room, I used to have my keyboard set up, like, all the time. It's just there. It's just there.
Speaker 3:So I can just quickly just jump on and off whenever I feel like it. But, obviously, more recently, like, when there's when I have to move stuff around my room, I realized it's not always possible to keep it set up. So I have to pack it down. And believe me, it does help. Like, sometimes you just have to get rid of the distraction around you.
Speaker 3:Get rid of the distraction. I'm also a gamer, so I have a place I have a p s I have a p s 5 with me. I also have a TV with Apple TV. So I switch those on because that puts me in everyday mode. Like, a couple of games of FIFA, and I'm fully relaxed.
Speaker 3:I'm having fun. But I just and also talking to friends, going out with friends, all that sort of thing, speaking to my family members or some close friends. Whoever have partners in their life, girlfriends, boyfriends, whatever, husbands, wives. Always important to spend time with your loved ones because in this day and age, yeah, we we didn't we do know, like, life can be very short. We don't know when our time comes.
Speaker 3:So it's just important, you know, just to just to, like, take some time, enjoy life a bit. But we play music about enjoying life sometimes. Songs about enjoying life sometimes. And we don't necessarily do it ourselves. So what is really a point of sending out a message if we are not taking it ourselves?
Speaker 2:It's true. It you know, if you were someone who you live, breathe, sleep, eat music, finding starting to have that discussion in what what can you do to kind of just still enjoy music but have something else that actually helps you to feel replenished as well so you can store feedback into that music that you love to do. Yeah. Nothing up. Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 2:So what I was gonna ask earlier was, obviously, in terms of even saying no to an opportunity, how were you able to set a price for yourself when it came to offering the stuff that you do musically to other people?
Speaker 3:There are many different avenues that I would go through in order to come up with a price. And what's what most what some people do nowadays, which I do commend for, is that they consult the music union website, and they look at the national rates for, like, performing musicians and whatnot. I'm charging you for the years that I've that I've practiced, that I've studied to get to this point, not the minutes of your time or my time to have me there. I'm charging for the years that I sacrificed to perfect my craft. With me, although I don't look it, I actually been I'm actually been playing music for over 20 years now.
Speaker 3:Obviously, I used to be very lenient when it comes to when people pay me. Like, my first gig, I was only 14 years old, and I got and I got, like, a 50 pound check there just for play just for playing for a church. And I've and, obviously, £50 at 14 years old is, like, a lot of money. I felt like a millionaire. So, obviously, now, £50 wouldn't really cut it.
Speaker 3:Like, £50 is basically petrol money. And, obviously, right now, I have to look into travel expenses. I have to look into keyboard maintenance. Like, even just a little things like getting it clean, getting it fixed, you know, getting it serviced, that that sort of thing. That has to be put into it because when you're when I'm using my gear, that's when the gear gets used up a bit because I'm using it up for your gig.
Speaker 3:Another thing is the time is the amount of time that they want me for and how many songs I'm doing, if I'm doing any rehearsals. That all goes in the travel expenses. And, of course, I don't wanna go to a gig and leave hungry as well. So if they're not feeding me or anything, I'll see you need some a few things so I can get something to eat on the way back. You know?
Speaker 3:There's a lot of things that you have to be put into place. And then I'm a greedy guy, so I like to eat a lot. So something has to be in my pocket when I leave that place. And so, yes, the price comes from a lot of things. You have to look through the different aspects of what you're sacrificing, what you have to take out of yourself, whether it's finances or, like, physical health or being or mental health, and then putting all that into the price.
Speaker 3:If I give you a rate for, say, like, 1 50 or 200, this is the type this is for the years that I put in practicing. Like, when I'm practicing at home in my little Yamaha keyboard when no one knows who I am, no one knows how well I play. Because they weren't there when you was learning how to play. They weren't there when you were practicing. They weren't there when you were struggling to even get it looked at.
Speaker 3:They weren't there when you're just sitting on the sidelines when you're watching the others getting all their gigs. But now that you're in a place where okay, Chris. It goes back to my previous the previous question about moment to say no. If they don't appreciate your value, then you're wasting your time with them. So I think it's important that when you set a rate, make sure it's appreciated by someone.
Speaker 2:No. I think that's good. It's you're not paying for the time that I'm playing. You're paying for the the years that I've invested. I feel that's so that's such a powerful and actually so true.
Speaker 2:It's not just what you're getting in the moment. It's all of the time it's it's taken to as you've rightly said, to sharpen and perfect your craft so that you can actually give your absolute best for that performance. And even still, even if it wasn't for the years, it's the time that you spent practicing for this gig. As well as your travel expenses, food, all of these other stuff. It's not just you're paying to hear music, you're paying for the business of everything else that comes attached with it.
Speaker 2:So, yeah. And even you said, like, if people can't see that value then you can happily be like well then then you could just respect for it to be like, no. Like, you know, then that's that's and that's and that's okay too. That's okay too. A follow-up question I would have to that before I ask the last question would be, so in the cases of let's say let's say the vet was £150 and they were like, hey.
Speaker 2:So we can't pay £150. We can pay £100, but we'll be able to cover your travel expenses. We'll make sure that you're fed, you know, but we can only pay you, like, £100. But all the other aspects, we can make sure to support you in that? Like, do you find that there's other areas where you're like, actually, you know, I can be flexible if you're covering this area, then sure.
Speaker 2:I can take a a deficit of a little bit into the rate I'm not usually paying.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I think it's good to have some flexibility. Especially if they're going to cover this, this, and that. For me, personally, I think it depends on it depends on the person, really. If if it's obviously someone that I know or someone I'm familiar with, then there's then it's something that I can consider.
Speaker 3:But if it's like a complete stranger, then you may not know what's gonna what you're gonna expect when they say they're gonna cover this, this, and that. Say, for instance, if I'm coming from a faraway place, they would have to provide accommodation. So if it finishes late, then I'll probably have to I'll probably have to sleep over and stay stay overnight and so I can travel in the morning. But I don't know what room they're gonna put me in. I don't know what hotel they're gonna put me in.
Speaker 3:So I think it depends on the information you get. Like, if they're giving you little information and they're not giving you the full price, then, of course, then for your own safety, I think you should still say no. But if you know if you know the company or the people well enough, so you know what to expect when they're going to cover all this all these bits and bobs, then you can then you could have be more you have more reassurance that you're gonna be taken care of. And so okay. Cool.
Speaker 3:I can be flexible. We can put it down to a 100. That is final. We don't go any lower than that. So, yeah, it's in I think it's important, like, just going back what I said earlier, just do your research on the people or the promoters or whoever's approaches you just to ensure that you're on the safe side.
Speaker 3:And, of course, go by the testimonials of other performers who have worked with them. So, yeah, that's that's what I would say, really.
Speaker 2:I know. Thank you. I just see it. It's it's good just to kind of have that understanding of that. Because I know people might listen to me like, hey, Corey.
Speaker 2:You didn't call. I'm a set my thighs. And I'm not gonna be moved, I'm standing 10 toes deep, like, I ain't gonna move but understanding that, yeah, there there there are means in which to be flexible, but it just depends on, I guess, your relationship with the person who's who is providing you or asking you for an opportunity. Looking back, is there any advice that you would give to students or alumni that you would wanna tell yourself when you study?
Speaker 3:Alright. So one thing I would say, and I'm not saying this just to, like, promote ICMP forever because, obviously, I appreciate the work that they do. I think it's important for all the students and the online to make use of the resources that they have available, live with ICMP. Like, especially especially with the facilities they have, the people that they have, like, especially with the networking opportunities. Always important.
Speaker 3:Wherever networking opportunity comes off, take it with both hands. Because it's very important to get get to get yourself in a pool of different people around you. Like, the more people know about you, the more opportunities develop. I'm I'm I'm speaking from experience because I would say from from the little gigs I've done, I haven't done any major gigs like Glastonbury or BBC live lounge. I haven't done any of that.
Speaker 3:Just being real. But I have done I have done gigs that that have opened some doors. Almost a couple of months ago, I I played for a conference as I sold out conference at the Vowel Albert Hall. And, it's a life changing experience. And and that is all that is all just from playing with a gospel choir.
Speaker 3:And just to think just thinking about that now, I'm thinking, like, this is the place where I would go on school trips or college trips thing just to watch an orchestra. And then never would I think, like, maybe a few years later try not to give out my HD map. A few years later, instead of being at the top of the highest balcony of the hall, I'm now on the actual stage. And just thinking about it, it's just all it's all come down to networking. So it's very important to network as much as possible.
Speaker 3:Stay on top of your studies, especially in ICMP because this is something that we love to do. This is music. So this is something that we can't be lazy about, just to say. And just to the the alumni as well, always stay in touch with others who are, like, current and past students. And even if you do not even if you don't have a job that is music related, work harder.
Speaker 3:Work harder at it. Like, be the best be the best employee at your job, whatever you're doing. Whether it whether it's in the office, whether it's in a retail, whether it's in the supermarket or just be the best because because what you're earning from them jobs, you can actually fund to your dream. So no job is beneath us. That is one that is one of the biggest lessons I've learned.
Speaker 3:Like, the job that the job that I have right now, like, it isn't something that I wanted in a long shot. But being in being there being there, like, directly after I finished my masters, although it's not what I want, it did fund for the things that I do want. From the start of the job, like, I'm using a very old a very old, like, 5 year old Mac, and I have my one keyboard that is breaking all the time. And then now now I've got better equipment. I've got better equipment for our music.
Speaker 3:I got better equipment for my everyday life. I've got a car that I can go from a to b. Like, there's so many things that you can achieve. Even if you'd even if music isn't your primary job, like, no job is beneath you. Like, just be the best you can do in whatever you while you're working, and I guarantee you there'll be success.
Speaker 2:You heard it here first. You heard it here first. That was yeah. That's I think that's gonna be really good for people to hear and to actually reflect on, as they listen back to this. So, Chris, thank you so much for joining me on, the what's next podcast.
Speaker 2:It's been a really good conversation, and I'm certain that as people listen to this episode, there's gonna be a lot that they're gonna be able to, take just from just your honesty and transparency, even from your own experience as well. So thank you very much, and, yeah. This has been the what's next podcast. Join us next time. We have another special guest, and we're gonna be getting into life beyond that cmp and asking the question, what's next?