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In this episode "This Title Is AI Generated: Human Thinking in the Age of Artificial Intelligence", we unpack the multifaceted impact of AI on mental health, critical thinking, loneliness, and even the environment. We explore the powerful ways AI can enhance efficiency and productivity — and the subtle ways it may be weakening problem-solving skills and deep thinking, especially among young people. Are we using AI as a tool… or as a crutch? We discuss how AI is no longer simply retrieving information — it’s creating it — and what that means for truth, misinformation, and our ability to evaluate what we consume. We also examine the growing concerns about AI-generated content, the rise in digital isolation, and the very real environmental cost of large-scale AI systems. Most importantly, we ask: How do we tread lightly? How do we use AI responsibly without allowing it to replace human connection? AI can be a powerful tool — but it is not a substitute for critical thinking, meaningful relationships, or real-world engagement. Join us as we explore where technology supports us… and where it may be quietly reshaping us.
Creators and Guests
Host
What is The Shrink Down?
Four lifelong friends, all clinical psychologists, unpack the latest in current events, pop culture and celebrity news through the lens of psychology.
The Shrink Down (00:00.69)
Welcome back to The Shrinkdown. Today we're going to be talking about artificial intelligence, also known as AI. It's everywhere these days, from our phones to our homes. So today we're going to be talking about what is AI, and more importantly, how are we seeing it in our lives, in our day-to-day lives, in our practices? And what are we hearing in the news about AI, kind of like the good and the bad? But before we get into today's topic, into today's topic, we're going to do our four-minute faves. Who wants to start?
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (00:14.542)
you
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (00:29.472)
I can go. I have a quick one. A quick read, a quick book that was so good. And it's been on all of the Reese's book club and Jenna's book club, you know, all the little book clubs last year. And I just read it in January, but it's excellent. Broken Country, have you guys? Okay. So good. So I wanted to recommend it even though it's from really from last year in terms of like the hot, you know, hot bestsellers lists and things like that.
Teri (00:47.487)
no.
Wilhelmina (00:47.522)
I read that one. Yeah. Yeah. So good.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (00:58.474)
by Claire Leslie Hall. Part love story, part whodunit. It's a super quick read. Yeah, it goes back and forth in time. So the timelines go back and forth. So you are kind of going like, you know, having to remember like some elements from these people's past to the present. It's great. It like, I think I finished it in three days. Like it was a really quick evening read by the fire during the depths of winter that we continue to have.
Teri (01:03.278)
Fiction.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (01:26.998)
So highly recommend if you've seen it on the best sellers lists or the book club lists, it's worth it.
Wilhelmina (01:35.256)
It's also a good audio book. Like not all books make good audio books, but this one was a good audio book. Yeah.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (01:37.07)
I could see that. Do they use different voices for the different because. Yeah, the different chapters are from different characters voices. OK, I like that. That's a good idea. OK, yeah, broken country.
Wilhelmina (01:43.828)
I believe they did. And they also had accents.
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Another one that's really good is, I thought you might've said this one was Heart the Lover, which also, and that one is an excellent, well that one, I don't know about the audio, but that one is an excellent short read too. So when you first said it, I thought you were gonna say Heart the Lover. Yeah, Yep.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (01:59.342)
okay.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (02:07.638)
Okay, similar. Yeah, funny. Okay, interesting. Okay, I'm gonna write that down. Great. What about you, Wilhelmina?
Wilhelmina (02:14.777)
So mine is a snack. Have you guys seen these? The sour strawberry candy belts at Trader Joe's?
Teri (02:22.926)
Yes, that's what I buy for my kids for movie snacks and myself.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (02:23.403)
No.
Wilhelmina (02:26.521)
So good. was one of my friends brought it to our last book club and the container, you can see it. Like there's quite a few of them in there. I actually had to physically move them from me because I think I ate almost more than half of the container what we had a like book club movie night. And I was like, I'm just eating them nonstop. They're so good. they're like not, they're sour strawberry, but like
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (02:26.932)
Well love.
Teri (02:49.72)
They're good.
Teri (02:53.238)
and there's no red 40.
Wilhelmina (02:56.439)
No red 40. Yep. Yep.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (02:58.648)
So like they're the Trader Joe version of, what is it, Joyride? The ones, whatever that. Interesting. Because those are like the no dies and whatever too. okay. Interesting, okay.
Wilhelmina (03:02.647)
Joy, yeah, and way better than Joy Ride. Like I don't love the Joy Ride. Yes, yes, these are better. They're softer and I think better flavor. They're not crazy sour. So some people are like wanting that more sour kick. This one, I would say the sour kick is pretty minimal, but I like it.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (03:18.094)
Yeah.
The Shrink Down (03:24.266)
What's the original bad version of this candy? What is it? Sour Patch. Okay, that's it. Okay, gotcha. Okay. Gotcha. Okay.
Wilhelmina (03:27.565)
I don't actually know.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (03:27.802)
like Sour Patch Kids has the strips. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. yeah. No, those are really bad. Yeah.
Teri (03:30.558)
Sour Patch Kids Strip. Yeah, that has the dyes in it. Yep. With artificial dyes. Bad for your gut.
Wilhelmina (03:32.993)
Or like, Airheads also has that strip, like the rainbow strips. Yeah. Yep. Yep.
The Shrink Down (03:36.459)
I'm
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (03:42.08)
and your teeth. Yeah.
Teri (03:42.978)
Yeah, and lots of other things.
Wilhelmina (03:45.529)
Vanessa, what about you?
The Shrink Down (03:49.718)
So I am going to do a new makeup item that I found. So it's a setting spray. And it leaves like a, it's called, it's by this brand One Size. I have their other setting spray. So it's called Powder Melt, and it's like a glass setting spray. So it holds your makeup, but then it also gives you that dewy glow. It's almost like an airbrushed finish.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (04:14.306)
Tuesday morning.
The Shrink Down (04:17.762)
But I really like it because it holds your makeup really well, really, well. But then it also gives that kind of dewy look, which I like. I have it in a matte version. So you can also, like if you don't like the dewy kind of glowy look, they have a setting spray that's just like a matte version so it's not glowy. So if you just want it to like hold your makeup in place, it works really well too. I like this one also because it comes in like a pump. The other one's like an aerosol spray can. So not everybody really likes that.
Yeah, it's like, I mean, it really gets you though. I mean, it's like an aerosol spray can. That was another reason why I pivoted to this one too, because I didn't really love the idea that it was an aerosol can, but it works really well to hold your makeup. So yeah, this is my new fave. It's by the brand One Size. Yes, they have it at Ulta and then Sephora has it. And then you can order directly from them. I actually got this from my niece.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (04:45.838)
I guess.
Wilhelmina (04:47.609)
you
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (05:02.178)
What was the brand? One size.
The Shrink Down (05:14.634)
So I was like, OK, my young adult niece, I was like, I am looking for something to give me like that glowy, dewy look. And she was like, this is what you want. And I already had the matte version of it. So I was like, I know this brand. That makes me hip, right? I'm so hip. So yeah, the brand is one size. It's their powder melts glass setting spray. That's my chair.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (05:17.644)
Yeah, all right.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (05:29.774)
That's interesting. Okay. Yeah.
Teri (05:31.596)
Yeah, you're very hip. Very hip. Yes.
Wilhelmina (05:40.481)
I feel like I would need the matte one, even though I don't like the idea of the aerosol, because I'm like, with my oily skin, I just create the dewy look. I don't need anything to give me extra dewy.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (05:41.198)
All right.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (05:47.084)
I I don't need any help. That's funny. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
The Shrink Down (05:47.926)
Yeah. I have dry skin, so I like the dewy. But that's why I mentioned the matte, right? Because I was like, I know not everybody needs or wants dewy looking skin. And so they do have a really good matte. So if you're looking, so I would say that if you're going somewhere where you're like, it's really hot and sweaty, I would, I mean, it does not budge. So I wouldn't use it like everyday makeup. But if you're going to like an event and you're like, I need my makeup to stay put, I would highly recommend.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (05:59.566)
That's funny.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (06:09.41)
Interesting.
Wilhelmina (06:12.365)
You want to keep it.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (06:14.84)
Yes.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (06:18.626)
for all our upcoming raves that we're headed to, right?
The Shrink Down (06:20.137)
Hahaha
Wilhelmina (06:23.811)
Maybe we can use it in Charleston when we go out.
The Shrink Down (06:26.592)
I don't know, is it gonna be warm? Is it going to be warm?
Teri (06:27.137)
spirit.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (06:27.286)
If we can only hope that it's going to be that warm.
Wilhelmina (06:28.269)
No, probably not. A girl can dream. Come on, guys. Here we go. There we go.
Teri (06:30.318)
All right.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (06:33.582)
We'll put it on and then we'll go into a sauna at the spa day.
Teri (06:33.868)
Yeah.
The Shrink Down (06:38.019)
my gosh. Terry, what are you sharing with us?
Teri (06:39.086)
I too have a makeup product. No, I'm such a, you know, beauty maven. So mine is an oldie but goodie that has become re-popularized. It's the Clinique Black Honey. It comes in like, yes, yes. So it was huge in the 90s and then Clinique brought it back with the 90s resurgence and I
Wilhelmina (06:57.321)
yes, the one you always get in a free sample. It's so good. Yes.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (07:01.143)
Yeah.
So that's funny. Yes.
Teri (07:09.036)
randomly bought it a couple months ago, just on a whim. was like, yeah, black honey, whatever. I love that in the nineties. And I was at a basketball game Friday night with some other moms and one of the moms whipped it out and was putting it on. And I was like across the bleachers. like, is that black honey? She's like, it sure is. And I was like, ha ha. And it looked so cute on her. So that's what I have on now. It's probably the most you'll see on my lips will be this. It's probably the most color. But I really do like it. It's one of those things where it looks super duper dark.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (07:29.016)
Yeah, I love.
Wilhelmina (07:29.081)
you
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (07:38.339)
Yeah.
Teri (07:38.912)
It looks really dark, but you put it on and it's not. And I'm a big fan. So there it is.
Wilhelmina (07:39.053)
but you put it on and it's not. Yeah.
The Shrink Down (07:39.93)
yeah.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (07:40.886)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (07:44.633)
I used to have really dark lips in like the 90s. And I remember Black Honey was like the light version for me compared with like what I wore. Now I'm like, it's really dark.
Teri (07:47.566)
Yeah.
Teri (07:51.446)
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (07:55.306)
Right, right, Cute.
Teri (07:55.818)
Yeah, yeah, it's good. Good stuff.
The Shrink Down (08:00.265)
All right, ladies, thank you for sharing. All right, so we're going to get into our topic today, AI, artificial intelligence. It's everywhere. I was looking up, I was trying to determine what is the difference between Google and a chat GPT, because I feel like I am technologically illiterate. Is that a good way to put it? I am not savvy.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (08:19.488)
Not savvy. Yes.
Teri (08:21.218)
Yes.
The Shrink Down (08:24.886)
And it was, it was, liked the way that I, that this, that it formatted it. So Google is for finding information that exists, like, right. It just finds it and gives it to you. Whereas something like AI chatting, like a chat GPT generates information. So it creates information. Um, and I thought that was such an easy way to kind of differentiate the two. Um, cause I think sometimes people get confused about what's the difference between something like a chat GPT and what's the difference between a Google.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (08:31.703)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (08:43.192)
Mm-hmm.
The Shrink Down (08:51.062)
But that's really the difference is that AI is kind of creating information while something like a Google or like a Yahoo search is just finding what kind of already exists out there and gathering that information for you. And I think we've seen, you know, this used in great positive ways. And we've also seen and heard AI being used in not so great positive ways. So I thought today we could start with some of the positive kind of ways that we've either been using it ourselves or we've heard of people using AI.
Does anyone want to start off with their experience? Yeah. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (09:24.151)
Yeah, I will. I think that for me, if I have to write an email, like maybe to for work or something like that, where I know what I want to say, I feel like I can get very bogged down with like, I'll spend 15 minutes on the email, just making sure it's worded right and all of the rest. And now it's sort of like, I'll you could put that into chat GPT. Like, can you write an email?
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (09:25.646)
positive.
Wilhelmina (09:53.526)
in this voice, here's what I want to convey. And then it generates, it not only does it generate that, it can change that. If there's like, is this too formal? Do you want it to be more casual? Do you want to add anything? And so then what might've taken me 20 minutes now takes me five minutes. And I end up with like, I've done work, but I didn't.
get bogged down in some of the just those like the minutia of sort of like, I don't know if that's phrased right, or I don't know if that. And so I do like it for things like that. Tasks that just would have taken me longer and really don't need to, AI can help with that, I think.
Teri (10:34.114)
Which one do you use?
The Shrink Down (10:34.964)
And that's actually the number one reason why people use chat GBT. was looking up like the, and that's like, yeah, for writing. not just emails, but just kind of writing in general and kind of zhuzhing it up, I should say. So that's, that's like the number one reason.
Wilhelmina (10:40.057)
Really? Okay.
Wilhelmina (10:46.598)
Yes, yes.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (10:49.198)
So I was reading an article on exactly this and is it good or bad though that it helps us to write right. And they were interviewing different professors from Harvard that are doing different classes on AI. And the one said, and I highlighted it because I thought this is a perfect way. And I think what Wilhelmina is saying is, well, he said, are you using it for a crutch or a tool? So what Wilhelmina you're describing to me sounds like a tool. And he's saying, as long as it's a tool,
Wilhelmina (11:13.123)
Yes.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (11:17.89)
to help you, yes, be a little bit more efficient in something that otherwise you'd get bogged down in and you don't necessarily need to get bogged down in that for your particular profession or role or whatever the task is, then you're using it as a tool. And what a great thing that tool is for you specifically in that instance. But he was saying what he tries to teach his students is if you're using it for a crotch, if you're not then engaging in critical thinking related to the writing task.
Wilhelmina (11:39.213)
Mm-hmm.
The Shrink Down (11:42.454)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (11:44.003)
for instance, then it's problematic because, and then the article goes on to talk about how we're in early studies right now for, my gosh, it's all over the place. People doing studies on what kind of cognitive atrophy is taking place as a result of AI, and that's terrifying to me. Yeah, so it's a lot of early studies, but the studies are suggesting, in small numbers right now, they're trying to get the studies to be a little bit more substantial, certainly. But the concern is that
Wilhelmina (11:46.103)
Right.
Teri (11:59.17)
That's what I'm most curious about. Yeah.
The Shrink Down (11:59.702)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (12:14.022)
if you're utilizing it in instances in which you would have otherwise had to problem solve, engage in critical thinking over time, that's going to atrophy parts of, I mean, prefrontal lobe, right? The problem solving center of the brain. And that is a big concern. And so this professor was saying rightly so that his goal in teaching his students how to utilize it is figure out if you're utilizing it as a crutch or a tool. If you're using it as a tool, awesome.
Wilhelmina (12:19.159)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (12:25.091)
Yeah. Yeah.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (12:43.308)
Like then it's, and in some ways, depending on what the task is, you could be using Google as a tool, right? Like find me a recipe or whatever. And perhaps chat is just a little bit more efficient or more specific in what you're actually looking for. And so then I think that can be the good of it, right?
The Shrink Down (12:50.774)
Yeah.
Teri (12:51.522)
Hmm?
Wilhelmina (13:01.805)
Well, and I saw something that was like, I think was speaking to this, and it was like the 30 % rule. it said, and you could go in either direction, but it basically said like, use AI for any of the like repetitive, just monotonous things that don't actually take much bandwidth, just take time. So those kind of tasks, whether they're writing tasks or note taking tasks, things like that, but then save that 30%.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (13:08.504)
Mm-hmm.
The Shrink Down (13:21.226)
Thank
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (13:21.251)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (13:29.059)
for the creative thinking, the, you know, kind of actually come up with your ideas, your plans, things like that. But anything that is just all of that bogged down stuff, like the repetitive stuff, the boring stuff, the stuff that is not requiring really any much brain power, use AI for that, which I thought was an interesting way to think about it. depending on the task, you could say 70 % goes to the brain, 30 % goes to the boring, or you could flip it, but they were just saying,
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (13:52.046)
So last, yeah.
Wilhelmina (13:58.446)
Be aware of that split.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (14:01.166)
Last night I had chicken thighs left in the refrigerator from my grocery shopping trip last week. And I said, I can just do our typical air fryer chicken fry or air fryer chicken thigh recipe. Or I'm like, chicken thighs, chicken cacciatore. And Tim's like, I want chicken cacciatore. That sounds so good. And I was like, every recipe I was Googling first. So I'm on the Google format of things. Everything said skin on bone in.
The Shrink Down (14:01.206)
makes sense.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (14:29.484)
And I didn't, I had boneless skinless. So every recipe I kept pressing on Google kept saying skin on bone in. And I went over to chat GPT and I was like, can you please modify a recipe for chicken, cat, chicken, cat, that uses skinless boneless. it, like, that is a really good example, Wilhelmina of like, I was using so much time clicking on every recipe on Google and nothing was coming up.
Wilhelmina (14:49.529)
That's great.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (14:57.326)
And I did want to mess up the cook time because it was a different type of meat, right? Oh my god, I was so happy about that. I had done the critical thinking. Yeah. Please change this for me. Yes. And that was, although I spoke to my mom afterwards and she's like, I always do. Boneless skinless. You could have just asked me. And I was like, and there's the crux of the AI argument.
Wilhelmina (15:04.121)
Well, and there you had thought of the recipe. had it, you you had already looked at a few recipes. You kind of knew what you wanted. So you actually just use that for that last piece to be like, put this aspect of it into the recipe I'm already wanting. Yeah. Yeah.
The Shrink Down (15:07.04)
Right.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (15:26.91)
And just like the bad, which we'll get into is like human relationships are totally dwindling as a result of our reliance. And like, yes, I had a mother that I could have just called and she'd have been like, that's how I always do it. like, So. This is a human interaction question.
The Shrink Down (15:27.35)
Thank
Wilhelmina (15:40.643)
Wouldn't it have been great if Chet, GPT, had been like, call your mother.
The Shrink Down (15:43.223)
Your mom, right? Just ask your mom. And Lauren, I think I forgot which segment, when it was, but you gave us, you told us how you used it for decoration, ChatGPT, and that was so good. I actually have a wall in my office. So I decorated my entire office. Everything looks great. And I have this one wall that is just, has been blank forever. Because I like...
Teri (15:43.682)
Right. Call your Bob.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (15:51.968)
Yeah. Yeah.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (16:04.877)
Yeah.
The Shrink Down (16:05.558)
I ran out of steam as I was decorating and everyone comes into my office like, my gosh, it's so cute in here. And then I'm like, yeah, just don't turn around look at the one wall that has nothing. So I have been in my office space for probably like two years now and this wall is just nothing, nothing on it. And I just couldn't. So I snapped the pictures of the walls that I did and then snapped a picture of that. And I was like, okay, give me ideas. And then it gave me some ideas. And then from there, I was able to then say, well, I don't like that.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (16:12.258)
to it.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (16:19.374)
staring. Yeah.
The Shrink Down (16:34.038)
kind of incorporate some other thoughts. So was just a good way to kind of brainstorming a bit about what I wanted to do. And in the end, I kind of came up with it on my own, but it was helpful for it to just give me kind of like a starting point. But I used my decor that was already there to like help it, help me sort of thing. So I really loved using it for decor. And again, it was kind of just like this jumping point of like, all right, I've been thinking about this for two years. I have gotten nowhere with this, help me.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (16:36.098)
Yeah.
Like a tool. Yeah. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (16:52.076)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
The Shrink Down (17:03.699)
And so,
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (17:03.98)
And that doesn't feel like a critical thinking skill that you necessarily need. You're not a decorator. Like you don't necessarily. Yeah, I was like, I don't need to know how to do like somebody just tell me how to do this. Right? Yeah, that's the good I think.
The Shrink Down (17:09.364)
Right. That's what I thinking about you. You're not a chef. So for you, it's like, yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
Teri (17:17.55)
And I admittedly, yeah, like I have not used AI yet. Like I haven't gone on chat GPT or whatever it is, but not because I'm anti AI. just don't, I just feel like I don't know how to use it. And I think I just have to jump in and do it. Cause everyone I know is using it. And you just, I feel like it just, you just go to the website, I guess, and type in, and then I'm sort of like, what question do I have? I don't even have a question. Like what would I type?
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (17:41.026)
Yeah.
Right?
Teri (17:45.454)
but my oldest son who's 10 was on the computer last week and was using chat GPT. And I saw, I could see it from behind him. It was like, you know things? And I was like, what is he doing? And I went over and he had searched, he had a bunch of materials. He was really into like arts and random crafts and whatever. And he said, art projects for a 10 year old boy when you have cardboard scissors. And he had listed all the things that he had gathered. And I was like,
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (18:12.409)
I love that.
Wilhelmina (18:12.571)
I love that.
Teri (18:15.418)
carry on like that because he I was like, he's trying to blend and make art. He was using it for inspiration for an art project because he wanted to do something he felt he was in the mood to craft or whatever. And I'm certainly as you guys know, I'm not the mom who's going to be able to jump in and help him with any of that or come up with something. And he was using it in the way that I think we would want our kids to use it. And I thought that was great. And
The Shrink Down (18:18.43)
Yeah.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (18:20.748)
him
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (18:26.488)
Yeah. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (18:41.773)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Teri (18:44.878)
I think it's one of those things where I have all these people that I know and love and respect who I think are very highly capable, intelligent people, you gals included, who are using it. My husband uses it. And I'm like, I just need to try. I need to think of something to use it for. know, whether it's an email, a work email or decorating something or whatever, I just think that I need to. So, and I only say that because anyone else listening, if they're also in my shoes or they're an AI virgin and they need to, you know.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (19:11.01)
Yeah. Yeah.
The Shrink Down (19:13.846)
Well, it's funny that you say that because when I was looking at some research about the AI, and it's actually, you are using it, you just don't realize it. Like you're not using it chat GPT, but search engines, like Google, it's technically not. It helps it. So, but it actually helps the search. So there is a part of it that is AI because it's helping it search. When they use maps and traffic prediction, that's AI. Recommendation, like the algorithms for Netflix, Spotify, TikTok.
Teri (19:14.508)
Do it.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (19:24.93)
Yeah, they've started putting it up at the top. Yeah.
Teri (19:26.382)
I noticed that.
Wilhelmina (19:28.557)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (19:38.061)
Mm-hmm.
The Shrink Down (19:42.965)
That's AI. Customer service chatbots, that's AI. Credit scoring. You're using it, you don't really... It's being used, and so you're using it secondhand versus... I know what you're saying. You're like, haven't gone to an actual chat GPT. And it's funny because I remember, think maybe it was... think it was last year sometime, was the first time I had heard about chat GPT. I'm sure it was last year.
And I remember it was like a family, it's a friend of ours who was talking about it and she was texting me and she's like, yeah, just use chat GPT. And I was like, what is chat GPT? And she starts laughing. She's like, how do you not know what this is? I'm like, I have never heard of this. What is this? So I feel like even I'm late to the game with it.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (20:19.308)
What is that?
Teri (20:27.63)
But is that like its own entity? But is that its own entity or is all AI chat GPT? It's the name of a company.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (20:33.73)
That's just one of the companies. It's the name of one of the companies.
The Shrink Down (20:35.018)
That's one of the companies. think it's what, yes, there are. Yeah, so.
Teri (20:39.822)
And then Gemini is Google's.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (20:42.334)
is googles.
The Shrink Down (20:43.446)
Yeah, yeah, think Chachi PT is one of the like more popular ones. Maybe it was the maybe it's like one of the ones that's been around the longest. I don't know that for sure, because I know a lot of people are like, oh, Chachi PT, you know, but it's just one particular one. And in fact, you know, talking about our, you know, using this for work, there are now programs that have been specifically been created specifically for psychologists that are these. It's not Chachi PT, but there's another company where they've created these programs to write.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (20:48.717)
Yeah.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (21:06.892)
I know. AI, yeah.
The Shrink Down (21:11.454)
your notes and your reports for you. So I think it's definitely growing and people are using it in different ways. And I could see how, especially having worked in an academic medical center where there is an expectation for billing, like I need to get my hours in.
Wilhelmina (21:13.026)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Teri (21:34.007)
Hmm?
The Shrink Down (21:35.503)
And you only have so much time for the paperwork. They want you to see x amount of clients and x amount of time. You're like, when am going write reports? When am I going to write my notes? And so I can see why people may head down that route for note taking and report writing, especially if you're in a crunch for time. It just makes it more efficient. So I think we're going to be seeing this more and more not just on our kind
industry, in lots of other industries.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (22:06.39)
It's interesting that you said that because one of the professors interviewed at Harvard said one of his concerns is that people are utilizing it because they're overcommitted, overworked, and they're using it as a time-saving device. And while he understands it, he said, I'm concerned that it's hindering learning then. He said, people don't know. It's interesting, just like he used an analogy, or one of these professors used an analogy of like just
Wilhelmina (22:06.531)
So I...
The Shrink Down (22:14.868)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (22:33.762)
just like we don't know the streets in the cities we live anymore because of turn-by-turn navigation. We're not paying attention to landmarks, phone numbers, because everything is stored for us in a digital or electronic method now. He said that a concern is that it's allowing us, it's almost like taking being over-committed and overworked and being like, I have a solution for you. I have an easy button when really,
The Shrink Down (22:40.474)
phone numbers. Phone numbers. Yeah.
Teri (22:42.036)
Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (23:00.416)
as humans, we should take a step back and like look at those human to human interactions and like, why are we overcommitted? Why are we overworked? And I just thought it was an interesting point. none of them are saying not to utilize it. They're just saying like, we have to kind of figure out like where the limits are. I mean, just like anything, there's the pendulum, right? It's gonna swing really hard right now because we're at the beginning infancy stages of it. And then you're gonna see so much of us or everybody like swinging back, I think.
Wilhelmina (23:29.773)
Well, and I, so I talked about it last season. I mentioned the TV show, The Pit, which is about an emergency room. So this season, this newer season, they're really focusing on a lot of the like healthcare issues in our like society, and they are mentioning AI. And so one of the doctors is coming in and trying to like change everything. And she is encouraging the doctors to go into the emergency. And I'm sure this is a real thing.
The Shrink Down (23:37.782)
Yeah, that's good.
Wilhelmina (23:57.102)
but to go in and record their interaction with a patient with this recorder, it takes it and then transcribes it for you into the note format. But as they were doing it, they're like, this is how easy is it? This is how you get it done fast. Your notes are done. You spend less time in front of the computer. But one of the students had been like, but wait, we prescribed this patient this, and it actually said this. And she said, you're right. We have to go back and.
review everything to make sure that it's good. But I was like, that's a tricky, like, is everyone gonna go back and read it? Like, and make sure.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (24:27.15)
Yeah.
The Shrink Down (24:28.334)
yeah.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (24:33.72)
The article talks about this, Wilhelmina. Yes. Yeah. The article talks about how things could be misdiagnosed in the medical field and if you're not utilizing it as a Crutch versus tool, which I just, yeah.
Teri (24:36.1)
so well, so it's, yeah.
The Shrink Down (24:36.394)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (24:47.001)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (24:47.234)
Well, yeah. so speaking of healthcare and healthcare organizations, my husband works for a very large, mostly nationally based, not all states, but most states, healthcare organization, and they were using AI just on the business end. they were allowed to use it. He would use it to schedule business trips. If he had multiple hospital site visits, how to plan it out, and essentially him and his coworkers would use AI to say, we're going to spend this many hours at this hospital.
The Shrink Down (24:48.692)
Right. Yeah.
Teri (25:16.342)
And then about six months to a year ago, they completely banned it. So nobody within his organization, hospitals on the business end are because they said, we just don't, we can't ensure that it's HIPAA compliant and that we're protecting secure information. They said for right now, we're just completely removing it. So he can't even use it for scheduling or to write emails, anything at all. He's not like they completely banned it. Either so much like.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (25:32.269)
Yeah.
The Shrink Down (25:33.28)
big thing.
Teri (25:45.56)
tech security and protection, even though he works from home when he logs onto the system and servers. And he's like, I really liked it. It was really advantageous helping me just on a business end plan things. Patient information was never involved in anything that he was doing, but he said, we are just not. And then I work for a local Chicago based health care organization. We also don't have it and don't, we can't use it for charting and we use Epic for charting. We don't use it in Epic.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (25:49.356)
Yeah, of course.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (25:59.427)
Yeah.
The Shrink Down (26:10.176)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (26:11.638)
I could probably use it like on the side to write reports. I'm not, but you know, I think that like, just think organizations are just trying to figure out like it's the wild west and they're trying to figure out what to do. And so they sort of did this blanket. We're just going to totally remove it. And then we're going to try to ease back in. It sounds like, so I don't think it's gone forever, but it sounds like we're going to try to figure out how to ease it, back in. Yeah.
The Shrink Down (26:37.76)
What got the bug,
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (26:38.51)
Well, and it's interesting that you describe healthcare because the American Psychological Association has a 2026 trends report. And this is listed in there as a trend that mental health professionals are going to have to contend with. So the point is like to flip to the conclusion, they were saying, organizations are gonna have to figure out how to deal with this because...
There's all of these new AI assistants. There's a new wave that are specifically developed to simulate human companionship. And so they were talking about like, heads up therapists, this is gonna be like a big thing you're contending with. they, yeah, replica. And Character AI is, listen to this, Character AI has 20 million monthly users.
Wilhelmina (27:14.147)
Yep.
Wilhelmina (27:20.045)
They already have something like that. I feel like they have an app.
Teri (27:23.522)
Well, don't people, people joking that? Yeah.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (27:32.398)
more than half of them are under the age of 24. That's current January 2026 data.
Teri (27:38.616)
That's like people ending their marriages to go be with their AI partner.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (27:42.488)
They're okay. So they're saying that many of them marry their AI companion and virtual weddings to which they invite friends and colleagues. Okay. This is APA. This is coming from a cross-sectional survey of adults with mental health conditions. So already diagnosed, used these AI servers in the past year for mental health support, nearly half of them. So nearly half of people that have a diagnosis
are turning to AI for mental health support. And there's a big concern about, well, I mean, you guys can guess, but social skills, intimacy, mental health, there's already things, unfortunately, at the national level, there's some lawsuits and things like that for people that there's a couple of parents that are suing. I think it's Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (28:26.253)
I mean, intimacy, how do you?
The Shrink Down (28:27.36)
We've already seen in.
The Shrink Down (28:36.052)
Yeah, because their teens committed suicide because the AI chat said to do that.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (28:41.742)
Mm hmm. But I didn't even it didn't even occur to me that there are actual companies that are creating relational companionship like specific, not just like generation of data like chat. Right. But like specific to to simulate relationships and companions for people.
Teri (28:58.99)
Well, that was the joke that Aaron Rogers had this, you know, the quarterback had the mysterious wife that they're like, it's an AI bot instead of a real person, which I still sort of think it is because he's a quirky dude. But there's also people using it as their therapist because it's free. It's actually we can get to that in terms of the cons because of the impact on the. Yeah, I think we're already there. I think we're already there. I agree. I agree. That, you know,
Wilhelmina (29:02.541)
Yes, I saw this.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (29:02.71)
I know.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (29:16.792)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
The Shrink Down (29:18.644)
I think we're already there. I think we're in the con pool. We're there. We're there.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (29:24.15)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (29:28.522)
that these individuals when they're like if this is their partner or whatever they're doing, they're saving money and then they're also, you know, ending marriages, etc. But then if they're using it as therapy, because I want to get your thoughts what you think about using as a therapist. I am part of some different Facebook mom groups for the local town I live in. And I have seen several posts over the last year where they said, in order to save money,
I terminated with my current therapist and I'm just using AI. Do you guys have any good prompts to enter? These are grown, likely. live in a town that tends to be highly educated, professional women. And so some of these people posting this. Yes, because what are your thoughts about that?
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (29:58.848)
UGH
Wilhelmina (30:08.907)
Not a group I would think would be.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (30:11.582)
the problem is, it's the whole idea behind it is it's generating responses for what you want to hear. What's that term that bias, confirmation bias? Yes, I mean, that's how these things work. And so, no, they don't have morals. And so that's the problem is like, you could ask a like literal, I use what
The Shrink Down (30:22.314)
Yes, yes, that is correct. Yes, bias, it is confirmation bias. yeah, they do not think independently. They do not have values. They do not have morals. Yes, they're not people.
Teri (30:24.098)
Confirmation bias? Yeah, confirmation bias.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (30:40.812)
What form of there do I use for the sentence if I mean, if you needed that? Okay, so that's like fact based information that it can generate enough information to know what the right response is. But if you're saying, how should I handle this emotionally charged situation? It's going to utilize your previous prompts to generate a response that may be completely inconsistent with or yeah, or it's just gonna do whatever it wants to.
Wilhelmina (31:01.052)
or just like
The Shrink Down (31:07.638)
Yeah, there was some I'm on this listserv for neuropsychologists. And there was like this whole heated debate about D. I won't even get into it. But someone was like, no, I put this into I put the information that was in this this document that everyone was kind of voting on debating. And I put it in chat GPT. And it gave me an unbiased kind of response. And people were like, no, it didn't. It gave me a response based on your what you
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (31:31.148)
No,
Teri (31:32.59)
Mm-mm.
The Shrink Down (31:36.247)
your history. So then the person came back and said, well, now I've put it into basically used like, I don't know if it was chat to PT, but some sort of AI instrument at work on their computer at work that they're like, I don't ever use this for, you know, any kind of personal stuff. don't ever like this is just work related and put it in there and I got a similar response. But I, know, how many times? Right.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (32:00.75)
But they still know where you work. So they're going to generate information based on...
The Shrink Down (32:03.766)
Right, like there could still be a bias. There still could be bias, right. And how many times have you said something and all of a sudden you're gonna add popping up on your phone? Right, so even if you're like, well, I don't, know, maybe it's pulling data from other, maybe you didn't put it in chat GPT or in one, you know, specifically or whatever, you know, program you're using, but.
Teri (32:10.08)
mm-hmm. Every day, every day, every day.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (32:11.022)
No,
Wilhelmina (32:14.679)
We joke about it all the time. We always joke about it.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (32:15.18)
I know.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (32:20.033)
Out.
The Shrink Down (32:30.774)
I'm sure it's pulling data, like it can pull data from other search engines that you use. I'm sure there's some affiliation with other search engines like Google. So it's pulling this. And so, yeah, it's scary because this is not a person. This is not a person that you're talking to. And so relying on it for relationships or advice or medical advice or even therapy is completely
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (32:37.111)
it's-
You it? You it?
Teri (32:56.194)
Mm-hmm.
The Shrink Down (32:59.702)
highly inappropriate. mean, it's,
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (33:01.036)
And it's going to further the epidemic of loneliness, which is, mean, we all know in our field. I mean, I would think that sort of the general listener knows like loneliness is a big issue. And you add in COVID, it was an issue that they were studying before COVID just with tech advances and people living online more. But, then COVID exacerbated it. And this is exacerbating it like tenfold. And it's a real, especially for young people.
Wilhelmina (33:03.968)
Absolutely.
Teri (33:05.313)
I know.
We're already trending in that direction.
Wilhelmina (33:13.719)
Huge.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (33:30.582)
It's a real concern that young people think this is a way to interact with the world. like these platforms are designed to keep you on the platform. These are all businesses. So they're going to tell you what they think you want to hear, whether it's the right advice for you or not, which is likely. I mean, if you think of like something like anxiety, right, it's likely going to give you responses that make you feel safe, warm and stay on the computer with it.
Teri (33:41.026)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (33:41.027)
Yes. Right.
The Shrink Down (33:41.588)
Yeah. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (33:58.948)
Versus therapy is not always making you feel warm and cozy. like a lot of times really good therapy, you're gonna feel uncomfortable to be able to get work through whatever you're needing to work, because it's outside of your comfort zone. Like if you're doing only things within your comfort zone, you're not, especially when you're young, you're not growing. I mean, really at any point.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (34:00.14)
Right, right, right. Always comfortable, right.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (34:13.602)
Right.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (34:20.078)
gonna say, would you understand that you're like an 18 year old? I don't know that I would have understood that if AI was telling me you're good, you stay home, it's okay.
Wilhelmina (34:23.885)
No. No.
Teri (34:25.326)
No. Well, and I've had to say to young adults in therapy, my job is not to make you feel good in this room. My job is to get better at feeling outside in the world and to do like, it's not so that, yeah, so that you feel we spend 45 minutes validating you and you feel warm and fuzzy and leave, that's not going to increase your functioning out in the real world.
Wilhelmina (34:37.155)
Yes.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (34:38.759)
your functioning and your value and all those things.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (34:47.916)
That's not our job. Yeah. Yeah.
The Shrink Down (34:49.39)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you think about it this way, if relying on it for therapy, which is something that is so, you know, I think it's serious, right? It's so personal. Like these things can't even give you, right. These things can't even give you accurate information. So they can't even give you accurate information about something like benign. So last summer I read an article and I looked it up because I was like, oh, this is a great conversation.
Teri (34:58.542)
personal and intimate.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (35:00.014)
Personal.
Wilhelmina (35:03.145)
as his marriage.
Teri (35:05.006)
Hopefully.
The Shrink Down (35:16.352)
So last summer in the Chicago Sun-Times, it was in May, there was an article that was put out, was the summer reading list for 2025. Yes, and it was, it ended up half the books were not real. And so when they went back, it turned out that the person who wrote this just went over to chat GPT and did a search and so, just cut and pasted it into this article. And so it actually pulled real author's names. So some of these were real author's names, but they weren't,
Wilhelmina (35:23.373)
Yes, I was going to mention this. It was all wrong. Yeah.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (35:27.374)
I heard about this. Yes!
The Shrink Down (35:45.312)
books that they had ever written. Like they didn't exist. So here's this list.
Wilhelmina (35:47.289)
Right.
Teri (35:48.739)
my gosh.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (35:49.102)
This has happened with the New York Times also. They've left the little thing on the bottom when they've posted articles that says like generated by chat. Yeah.
Teri (35:57.71)
Hmm.
The Shrink Down (35:57.877)
Yes. Any time I'm, I was just going to say any time that I use it and look like looking for like resources, I always go and look to see if it is real. Like I'll be like, I need like resources like on XYZ and then I'll go and search them to see like, right, like I'll go Google it or go look, where can I buy this? Where can I find this? Now I'm going to look it up. Like, does it have good reviews? So again, using as a tool, not relying on it because it can't give you like real books. How are you going to rely on this for?
Wilhelmina (35:59.662)
when I was gonna.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (36:05.102)
And yes.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (36:14.188)
Now I'm going to go Google it and see actually exists. Yeah.
Teri (36:15.17)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (36:20.366)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
The Shrink Down (36:27.52)
something like therapy.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (36:27.576)
Yes, I remember hearing about this. I didn't realize it was in Chicago, but yeah, yeah.
Teri (36:29.613)
Yeah.
Teri (36:32.896)
And one thing about AI that I at least was confused by, and you guys might know this and other people might know this, is I kept hearing about the environmental impact and water. Yes. OK. And I and it sort of flew over like I would hear it. And I was like, I can't even think about that. Like what? And then I have a therapy client who works in the field. And I finally asked this person in our session, I said, I have a quick question.
Wilhelmina (36:42.605)
I was going to, yes, all of my notes are about the environment.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (36:44.382)
yeah.
Really? that's funny.
The Shrink Down (36:47.968)
I don't know anything else.
Teri (37:02.22)
And was a very simple and she said, it's the because it uses so much power. They need so much water to cool the centers. And that's why
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (37:08.844)
energy. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (37:11.417)
So.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (37:13.57)
Yeah, they said you're not even supposed to say like, thank you or please if you're utilizing it because even that uses a lot of.
Teri (37:16.181)
Yes!
And then, and that's where, and so once I learned that a couple months ago, I'm like, I have to really have a good chat GPT question because I don't want to be using it to like write it, whatever, you know, I'm like, it's gotta be good because it's good. It might use so much.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (37:30.712)
Right.
Wilhelmina (37:34.948)
So before we decided on this topic, Owen and I had already, earlier this weekend, had a conversation on this. So I was like, and now, because I was basically saying like everything that starts to like, this is awesome. It's like, no, no, this is bad for you. this is awesome. No, this is bad. And I said, and now here AI is, like, it's awesome. wait, but you're really harming the environment. yes. And so Owen was like, well,
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (37:43.448)
me.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (38:00.482)
You're actually killing trees.
The Shrink Down (38:02.774)
Thank
Wilhelmina (38:04.397)
He's like, that's not completely true. And so then I looked up for research for today and he was like, yes, there is like a lot of water, but he said, it really depends on how they're getting the energy. He said, so if they're using clean energy, it isn't quite the blight. So I guess his company is buying or has bought or is reopening Three Mile Island and they are gonna return it to service
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (38:21.666)
That's interesting.
Wilhelmina (38:34.199)
by 2028 and they are going to, is for Microsoft's data centers and it's going to supply carbon free power for all of that. So they're just for Microsoft AI, Three Mile Island is going to power that entire thing, but it's gonna then be all, where is Three Mile Island? I feel like I should know this.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (38:43.48)
Okay.
Teri (38:50.05)
Where is that at?
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (38:54.444)
I have no idea. So like the idea is if the companies start behaving responsibly, then we as the consumers can decide what company to utilize and then we're sort of good. Okay.
Teri (38:56.461)
you
Wilhelmina (39:03.107)
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Teri (39:04.502)
And I've been told Gemini is much better than ChatGPT. I've heard that ChatGTP is one of the worst offenders. would look, as we just said, like Vanessa mentioned, I would look that up to verify that. But I have heard from multiple people who use a lot of AI that Gemini is more eco-friendly than ChatGPT. So for what that's worth.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (39:11.31)
interesting.
The Shrink Down (39:16.923)
Hahaha!
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (39:18.444)
Yeah.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (39:25.886)
That's interesting. Like Wilhelmina said, I'm sure in the early stages of anything, everybody thinks everything is so good. And then it's like, hold on, Amazon, right? It's like, my God, can be delivered. And we know all the environmental impact. And now they've switched things in the way they deliver and whatever. it's just like anything, right? Used responsibly.
Teri (39:32.61)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (39:47.97)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (39:48.164)
Well, I think right now, because just like sort of the vetting of the information that AI gives you is a little bit wild, wild west and why companies are like, let's get rid of it. I think also the environmental impact is a little bit that way too. the companies are, so they don't have to like report all of the data and like how much is being used and all of the rest, which is a little shady. I'm sure that will change. But basically everyone in the field knows it's,
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (40:03.714)
sure.
Wilhelmina (40:17.015)
a really heavy toll on the environment. So I feel like most of the companies are moving towards trying to make it make their carbon footprint less and go to using clean energy as a way to do that. I don't think they all are. They're not all doing that now, but that is there's no way yet. There's no regulation. Exactly.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (40:26.264)
Yes.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (40:33.038)
Well, because there's no regulations to your point at this point. It's interesting. I was also reading there's no regulations for young users yet again. We're putting our kids at risk. so common sense media is one of the ones that's been in Washington, D.C., trying to advocate on, you know, children and adolescents behalf of like, we really need to have some kind of regulations because they're
Wilhelmina (40:41.357)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (40:41.966)
So that's where I thought, yeah.
The Shrink Down (40:43.553)
yeah.
The Shrink Down (40:53.558)
having an age.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (41:01.282)
there's all these studies that they're starting to put out with one in five teenagers have had or have friends who have had a romantic relationship with AI, like the mental health stuff that Vanessa was alluding to. There's kids that have been utilizing it as a therapist and prompting how to self-harm, and it doesn't pick up on those things. actually gives, there should be.
Teri (41:19.502)
and
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (41:25.504)
as soon as that happens, some way to shut it down or report it if it's a young user or whatever. Harmful weight loss tips, hate speech, disordered eating. And those are from AI giving to kids is some of the stuff that they're reporting.
Teri (41:41.24)
tips and tricks.
Wilhelmina (41:42.839)
Which makes sense. It's the same stuff that social media, they can go to the social media and like find all of this.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (41:45.996)
Yeah, 100%. And that's the group they're kind of putting it in is like, hey, if we're going to regulate social media, which we should for young kids, we need to do the same thing with these different AI formats.
Teri (41:57.442)
I would say, yeah.
The Shrink Down (41:57.921)
Well, also thinking of like, I was just going to say thinking of not just kind of information that they're getting, but photos. Like we've heard stories of like photos being manipulated and created using people. And I've, I've already had this discussion with my nine year old. Like we've, we've talked about it at a nine year old age appropriate level. Like I haven't told her like, you know, how bad the photos can get. but just how people can create things that don't exist. I think I told you guys about the, how she and I, no, I think I told my other friends about it. So she,
Wilhelmina (42:05.397)
yeah, yeah.
Teri (42:07.028)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (42:07.31)
that aren't real. Yes.
The Shrink Down (42:27.798)
she really likes this Spanish singer. And we were looking on Instagram at photos, like looking at this person. And I found a picture of him with this other singer. And I was like, oh, I didn't know they were dating. And so I click on it, and it takes us to this page. And it's like them, and it's like they're having a baby. And she and I are looking at them. And she's like, are they really having a baby? And I was like, I
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (42:38.382)
Mm-hmm.
The Shrink Down (42:54.466)
This is so weird. Like I haven't heard this in the news and like we're just scrolling through and then I start seeing them like holding Like a pregnancy test, but then the next 15 photos where them hold and then I was like, wait a minute Like they're wearing different outfits and then every picture they're holding up this like pregnancy stick and I like this can't be real So like I start searching up the top and I realized this is not a real account This is a fake account and all the I mean, it's a whole page
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (43:12.165)
Wilhelmina (43:20.633)
It's all.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (43:20.674)
Yeah. Yeah.
The Shrink Down (43:22.518)
of these two famous people and there's other famous people like Latino singers who are in these photos, they look so real. So I turned her and I go, Everly, this is not real. And she's like, what do mean? was like, so we start talking about it. Like somebody made these pictures up. These are not real pictures. And she was like, oh my gosh. And I was like, this is why it's important to not like be posting pictures on the internet because anybody can take your picture and change it. So it was a good.
life lesson, learning lesson for her in that moment. But I, as a 45 year old woman, was for a minute, I was like, oh, down the rabbit hole of like, these two people are together and they're having a baby. Crazy.
Wilhelmina (43:53.709)
Down the rabbit hole. Down the rabbit hole.
Teri (43:55.616)
I know.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (43:58.262)
I think the first time I was duped with AI was that this was a couple years ago. They said there was a Polar Express sequel. And I was like, that's so exciting. And I was like, this is like the movie industry fake accounts. Yes. I'm like, this is not real. This is not happening. We've had like two Christmases come and go. This didn't happen.
Teri (44:05.934)
The Shrink Down (44:06.838)
I've been caught by sequels too.
Wilhelmina (44:06.981)
yes. I think I've been caught by like a Harry Potter, some sort of Harry Potter thing. was like, Ooh, not real.
Teri (44:09.27)
Yes.
Teri (44:15.05)
Mm-hmm. I do think we're...
Right, I think we're in the era now of we need to question much of what we see visually and be really critical. And is that AI? Is it not? Double check, investigate, teach, like Vanessa said, teach our kids to do that because I think we're there now where it's gotten so good.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (44:27.522)
be critical.
Wilhelmina (44:27.563)
Yeah.
The Shrink Down (44:28.809)
Yes.
The Shrink Down (44:33.226)
Yes.
The Shrink Down (44:37.536)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (44:39.16)
Did you guys see that whole campaign of the different movies that were showing them walking, like when it was a kid in the movie and now what the person looks like as an adult and they were walking together down the street? It was like Christmas time. I think they started with Home Alone and then they kind of went, and it got really, and then they would show people with wings on if they had passed away. It got very creepy and it was like.
Teri (44:49.335)
Yes.
Teri (44:52.972)
Yeah.
The Shrink Down (44:53.302)
who have seen the first year. Yes, yes, yes.
Teri (45:00.876)
Yeah...
The Shrink Down (45:01.034)
Yes, yes, yeah.
Teri (45:04.472)
There's a creepy element, yeah.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (45:05.27)
If it were a reunion, yeah, like if it were like an actual reunion of these people 30 years later, you're like, cool, right? But when they're like generating these photos, especially for people that have them passed, you're like, okay, we don't need to see what they would have looked like. Like, we're good.
Teri (45:19.947)
I know. I know.
Wilhelmina (45:21.539)
Well, there was this one that I came across that was like an alternate ending to Titanic. And it was like, if Leo had pushed Rose off and was like, I'm gonna survive this time. But it actually like used his face. So obviously it was sort of meant to be funny and silly, but it did look like him, know? And like, and they did different scenes. Right, I was like, this is weird. I showed it to Maddie. We were both giggling because it was just silly. But I was like, this is weird because it looks just real and I...
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (45:27.028)
The Shrink Down (45:29.174)
you
you
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (45:36.952)
Yeah.
Yeah. And then you're like, did they give permission to do it?
The Shrink Down (45:40.085)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (45:51.226)
enough but like with that AI sort of twinge of like, but this is not real. Uh-huh. Yeah, a little, yeah. Or you're like, oh, this is from Gatsby or this is from like they pulled from other things to like put this together. But yeah, it was weird.
Teri (45:54.379)
Mm-hmm. There's always something a little off.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (45:54.914)
Yeah. The edges are too soft or whatever. There's a whole... Right.
The Shrink Down (45:55.681)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's scary.
The Shrink Down (46:05.376)
Yeah.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (46:05.646)
That's what they do.
The Shrink Down (46:07.744)
Yeah, we had our Christmas pictures taken the summer. And so we were wearing, well, I wasn't, my husband was wearing a short sleeve and he has like a tattoo, like a half sleeve. And he like didn't want it in the picture for our Christmas photo. So he's like, well, I'm gonna, you know, just use one of these programs to like airbrush it out. And I was like, okay, so he sends me the edited picture. He's like, my tattoo's gone. And I look at our daughter and I go, that is not our daughter anymore. Like it had completely.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (46:34.094)
They changed the face, yes.
The Shrink Down (46:36.924)
altered her fate. I mean, that's not her. And I'm like cracking up. I was like, that's not our child anymore. Like, so wild. I was like that. So yeah, and it was just from a simple again, nothing nefarious. Like, I just want to airbrush out this like little, you know, thing out of the picture. And it completely altered. I mean, it was totally different person. Why did that? I don't know. But just really, like again, good example.
Teri (46:42.888)
my gosh.
Teri (46:48.29)
Yeah.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (46:54.499)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (47:00.758)
no, but that's the I think that's a really good example of it just kind of takes what it thinks it knows. Well, that's I mean, you don't pay attention to that stuff. And it's like, wait a minute, something's off here.
Wilhelmina (47:01.785)
Can you imagine if you'd not check that and you just sent those out?
The Shrink Down (47:09.896)
know. know. Like, wow, looks different. Yeah, like a totally different person.
Wilhelmina (47:17.849)
Well, Owen's parents celebrated their 50th anniversary last year and they got photos done of the two of them, like professional photos. And now they went to a studio, still like very old school, like back with the backdrop and everything. But they then gave us this framed photo and we were all looking at it we were all there together. So my husband and his brother and we were like, why do you look?
The Shrink Down (47:34.304)
Sears.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (47:35.714)
Yeah.
Teri (47:35.906)
JCPenney.
The Shrink Down (47:37.494)
Ow!
Wilhelmina (47:47.386)
And they're like, we just had them like, you know, do a little touch-ups. And I was like, it was so bizarre because it just like was them, but like not them. And I was like, this isn't like the traditional like pimple, like airbrushing that they used to do. this was like clearly AI where they just made them look. But it was that it was so strange looking at these people where you're like, especially when they were right there in the room where I'm like, it's you, but it's not you. Yeah. Yeah.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (47:54.786)
Yeah, you could... Yeah, not quite.
Yeah.
The Shrink Down (48:14.088)
not.
Teri (48:14.346)
it's not.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (48:15.884)
Mm-hmm.
Good or bad, we're in it.
The Shrink Down (48:20.086)
I
Teri (48:20.258)
We're here.
Wilhelmina (48:21.003)
It reminds me of the movie, How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days. When Kate Hudson takes, she's like, she comes in with this, she's being crazy to try to get him to break up with her. And she comes in with this photo album that she has made of, she's like, I made a photo album of our wedding and our future children. And he's like, wow, they're really attractive. And they're like,
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (48:33.44)
Yeah. Yeah.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (48:37.992)
of their future children.
Teri (48:39.006)
The Shrink Down (48:39.558)
The Shrink Down (48:47.209)
you
Wilhelmina (48:47.799)
So not, they're like so silly looking, but I was like, ooh, that would look real different now. Like that could look, you could do it, yeah.
The Shrink Down (48:50.422)
you
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (48:52.48)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Now they can do that. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Teri (48:53.006)
You could do it.
The Shrink Down (48:53.11)
my gosh, it would look real.
Any other thoughts ladies on AI?
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (49:01.87)
I think it's a to be continued. There's going to be so much.
The Shrink Down (49:03.348)
I know, think we're gonna be, yes, I think, you we didn't even talk about like how this is impacting like school performance. I think this is something that we're probably gonna have another conversation about in the future because things are gonna change for better or for worse. Yes, so we'll definitely be talking more about it.
Teri (49:03.468)
to, yeah.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (49:10.152)
that's a biggie.
Wilhelmina (49:18.701)
I think, I feel like my takeaway is tread lightly, like use it for minimally and really when you need something like nothing that requires a lot of thinking, but you're just like something easy, like an email, something that's just a quick, the recipe, I love that, know, things like that, but try to use your brain first and then AI to fill in some blanks, but don't.
The Shrink Down (49:37.44)
Yeah. Yeah.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (49:44.974)
cautious and critical.
The Shrink Down (49:45.238)
Yeah. All right. It's a tool. Think of it as a can opener. A tool. Just a tool. All right, ladies. Good talk. Please join us next time on The Shrinkdown.
Wilhelmina (49:46.425)
Don't do AI and then, you
Mm-hmm.
Lauren Radtke-Rounds Ph.D. (49:51.598)
All right, just a tool.
Teri (49:52.962)
I like that.