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Columbus' hub for inclusive conversations on building success in real estate, construction, and adjacent industries! Host Arianny Damian holds space for local professionals to share their perspectives regarding the empowerment, support, and advocacy for women in male-dominated fields.
Welcome to Just Betunis Girls. This is Columbus's hub for inclusive conversations on building success in male dominated fields. Whether it's through empowerment, support, or advocacy, we talk all things professional development and breaking the glass ceiling. Hello, and welcome to episode 6 of Just Between Us Girls. My name is Ariane Damian, business development director of Thompson Restoration Associates.
Speaker 2:And today, we have Alicia Mitchell with OhioHealth Corporation, OhioHealth Real Estate Group.
Speaker 1:Alright. Thank you so much for joining the episode today, Alicia. For that. I'm super excited to have you on because you bring a lot of different perspective. And today, I think that there's a lot of conversation.
Speaker 1:Our our listeners, not readers, will be able to, leave with. So
Speaker 2:That's wonderful.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Thanks for that. Tell me, a little bit about what you do with OhioHealth, what that looks like, and and a little about how you got into this. Sure.
Speaker 2:Well, I have been with OhioHealth for about 3 years. I manage the commercial portfolio that, is centered mostly in the northwestern downtown area, Arlington, Grandview. And I manage, anything that is not attached to a hospital. Mhmm. So that can be an urgent care.
Speaker 2:That can be a freestanding emergency department, and then also medical office buildings. So commercial medical office buildings.
Speaker 1:Beautiful. Mhmm. And how did you end up at OhioHealth and really in commercial real estate in general?
Speaker 2:I've worked for a wonderful company, NAI Ohio Equities for a number of years. I started out on the residential side there, and, my former VP had an opening in, high rise condos and, said, hey. Would you be interested in it? And I'm like, yes. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because at that point, I'd make managed or worked in at least 2 high rises, 1 which was, commercial mixed use. Mhmm. And so that gave me a a new perspective from the residential side that I had pre pretty much about 15 years of my career had spent in the residential sector. So took that opportunity, moved over to commercial, and haven't looked back since. I really enjoy the commercial side.
Speaker 1:Yeah. What would you say are, like, the main differences between residential and commercial? And, what do you think in your experience really separates the 2?
Speaker 2:So you still have the, like, tenant relation, resident relation aspect where, you know, you, are providing high level of service, attention to detail, all those things. Mhmm. But I think the biggest difference between residential is very simple. I mean, that's their home. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:So there's an oftentimes in a commercial setting, the emotional attachment isn't as, prevalent so much as that's a business investment. And so how your your obligation on the residential side is that someone can reside in their home safely and happy and free. In a commercial space, they are operating their business, realizing their revenues, and serving their customers or clients or whoever, whatever the business entity is. So it's just a little different nuanced, but still the same in the in the approach of, you know, you wanna still provide a high level of personal touch service. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's just different.
Speaker 1:I I definitely agree with that because in our industry, and particularly, like, in the restoration side of things. So whenever we have a residence and it's, you know, even if it's like a multifamily apartment, and we have, all these different, you know, residents that are like, okay. You know, at the very, very minimum, we're worried about where am I gonna sleep tonight? What is go like, what is gonna go on with this? How long is this gonna take?
Speaker 1:And where a lot of times the question on the residential side is like, how long, you know running commercial. Yeah. I was gonna say, yeah, with commercial, there is definitely that aspect of it. But with commercial, people can be a little bit more patient because they're looking at it more from, like, you know, we'll do what it takes to get things running again. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And on the residential side, they're more like, who is paying for this? And how are we getting you know? Know? And Sure. It's a little bit of a different experience, and
Speaker 3:we find it that there's a lot more handholding and explaining involved and and and things like that. I think
Speaker 1:you still have an obligation to, explain to, that.
Speaker 2:I think you still have an obligation to, explain to and set proper expectations for tenants on the commercial side. So, I mean, mean, ultimately, their goal is how quickly can I get back to operating my business?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that should be your obligation too. Right? Like, how can I get them back to, doing what they do every day? How can I minimize the interruption to them as much as possible?
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And sometimes the interruption is what it is. Right? Yeah. And then other times, like, if there's stuff that can happen after hours or, you know, out of of the way where it's not causing, like, major stress to a a patient. Like, in my case, at Ohio Health, we also have standards on on noise control
Speaker 3:in
Speaker 2:our buildings. Because you're dealing with
Speaker 1:the medical side of things as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And so you've got to imagine depending on where why a patient is there to be sitting in a medical building and listening to drill drills going off somewhere down the hallway could be very upsetting. So a lot of our work oftentimes is after hours. In fact, when I'm bidding scopes of work and I and I look at them like, is this after hours? Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know,
Speaker 2:because they're usually giving it to me and it's for, you know, normal business hours. And I'm like, I need you to run that back and
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Put some after hour labor into that.
Speaker 3:So
Speaker 2:yeah. I mean, ultimately, it it like I said, it's important to explain to, the tenant what the timeline will be. I think communication is key. It's the number one. Like, you tell them what's happening, when it's happening.
Speaker 2:And even if you don't have a change in what you have to tell them, keeping in constant communication and updates is really important. Yeah. And I think largely people value that.
Speaker 1:I always say and that's one of the things where, like, we ended up bringing on someone that's solely dedicated to That's smart. The communication piece of things. Because I mean, if you think about the number one, thing that contractors people get on contractors for is communication.
Speaker 2:They didn't tell me anything. And Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah. They didn't say anything. And at the end of the day, no update is still update. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, the absence of information people fill in their own gaps.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And, you know, natural I think natural human being naturally humans, default to Build
Speaker 1:the negative.
Speaker 2:They right. They and if it's a really negative situation, like, we've talked about my basement flooding and, you know, all the emotion that was going around it. I think the reason I was able to kind of separate myself from what was happening, I was still very emotional when it happened Mhmm. Was I understood and I trusted the contractor because they Yeah. They did restoration and water mitigation in my buildings.
Speaker 2:So I understood intellectually what was happening so I could sort of process Yes. That my old life was, like, going downstream. Yeah. At the time. So
Speaker 1:I literally did.
Speaker 3:It really it
Speaker 1:really was.
Speaker 2:That's it's
Speaker 1:one of those things too, and I'm really glad that you brought that up because that's actually something, but this goes kinda off off where we're going, but that speaks to you getting to know your vendor Mhmm. And understanding how they communicate and what you you both have these certain you've had a relationship. You understand what's going on. It's imperative.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's And I would say largely, you know, I'm tough with my vendors.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:But I also trust them.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:I get out of their way so that they can It's
Speaker 1:like being a parent. Yeah. You got it?
Speaker 2:I trust, verify, and I I I feel I believe that when I pick up the phone and call that I'm gonna get a straight answer. They're gonna do what they can to get my buildings back up and running. So
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, that and that takes time years to, like, build that sort of trust and relationship and, and yeah. So it was a good experience.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:In in spite of having I
Speaker 1:was gonna say, yeah. In the end, you know, especially with with a lot of what we do being just, like, accidental, like, it's there's nobody to really blame in the process of it all. A lot of the times, you know, you end up in, emotional discussions and things like that with people that kind of are searching for a place to to place their frustrations.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And that's where communication really, really comes in the most. Right? Because that's where you, really need to step up and be like, listen.
Speaker 2:And I would think in your business, because you do do you mostly do residential?
Speaker 1:We do a split, residential
Speaker 2:and commercial. And at least on the residential side, having people that, when those those crews arrive, those emergency crews, just being able to provide a level of empathy in the moment and that was really, I think, what made the difference for me is that in that time where I here I was, you know, looking at very precious treasured memories that were were potentially lost, just to have them stop and give me a very human, empathetic moment. Yeah. And and I think that that translates whether you're in commercial or residential Yeah. To just stop and say, I know this sucks.
Speaker 2:Right? This is really bad, and we're gonna get through it. So that's really important.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Is there has there been a moment in your commercial career where you have been, dealing with, you know, high intensity emotions and emergency of some kind of something like that, and you kind of had to lean more on that empathetic response and more just, rather than it just become a business transaction
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Leaning right into that human aspect and how it's changed things.
Speaker 2:And I think it's easy to slip into that, like, sort of robot mode when you're in commercial.
Speaker 1:Yes. But That's why
Speaker 3:I asked.
Speaker 2:That's the the that's something that you have to, like, really dial or check at the door. Working in head of health care and the health care industry, like, you know, the mission is the mission, which is to take care of patients. Yeah. And we see patients, at the start of life, and we're seeing patients through the end of life, and then all the things, the touch points in between. And one of our missions is to create memorable moments, for people.
Speaker 2:And and so just because I just because I'm a property manager, I try not to reduce that Yeah. To something that's not, no. I'm not a surgeon and probably don't want me. I guess. I'm gonna faint.
Speaker 2:So I'm gonna fight. You don't want me around the blood and all the the really important stuff. But if I can create a space that is comforting and safe when someone's getting some of the worst news of their life. Yeah. Or, they're not worried about, oh, it's too cold in this space or it's too hot and I can't I'm not comfortable and I don't feel well.
Speaker 2:That's where I I deliver on the mission that we have at Algonquin Health. And I think that's really the case. In all instances, when there's something happening, people don't stop being human just because they're in a commercial building. Right. Right?
Speaker 2:Like, they've gotta figure out how to come to work, how to, you know, deliver whatever service that they have to deliver deadlines that they have.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And so I think just checking into that time that I spent on the residential side is something that I dial into every day. Mhmm. Mhmm. Even when I'm meeting with a tenant just to do, like, building rounds, I don't use commercial experience. I use my residential experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And I because you're talking to to a human. Yes. And I spend time getting to know, like, how they tick, what's important to them. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:I can almost tell immediately when I walk into my building if the nurse or the practice administrator is having a bad day. Mhmm. Like and not just because she's, like, presenting that way. I can almost tell just because I've spent the time to just try to understand, you know, what makes her tick or make him tick in those moments. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think that's one of the things that, sometimes is overlooked is that we expect a lot of times people to be in our same state or we expect people to be very similar to us, you know, or things similar. People where they are. 100%. And I always tell people, you know, even if you are trying to, bring someone's mood up or or or get them kind of closer to where you are perhaps. I always, I can't remember exactly who had this rule, but they would always say, you know, you look at the baseline of where this other person is at.
Speaker 1:And you say, how do I just go one notch above? And if you go to 1 notch above and they meet you there and you go one more notch above and they continue to meet you there, you can eventually kinda raise the level of the You start
Speaker 2:pulling them out of that that moment. Yes. Getting them to pause. Yeah. Like, I know this is going on right now, and this is a lot.
Speaker 2:But if you can give them a moment of pause to, like, you know, just come in where you are, and then you take them to wherever you wanna go. I typically don't try to distract that much. Yeah. But, yeah, if I can at least get you here Yeah. Then we can get through.
Speaker 2:Because there's something that I need to communicate. Like, I'm not in a building just for kicks and giggles.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. I didn't show up here so they were sad. No.
Speaker 1:And and sometimes that emotional firewall can create a sense of of larger distance where they almost feel like you're on the opposing side or something. And you have to come in and just kinda be like, you know, we are on the same side. I would
Speaker 2:hope like of my tenants would feel that way. And in fact, they often say that. Like, tenants well, residents even know I didn't wanna be a bother or I didn't wanna bother you. And I'm like, that's kinda what
Speaker 3:I'm saying.
Speaker 1:What I do. Yes.
Speaker 2:Like, it's okay. So I try to reassure people whenever they do call, like, call me. Yes. Absolutely. You can text me.
Speaker 2:You can call me. You can email me. Mhmm. Usually, I'm not sitting at my desk, unless I'm in a meeting. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Or when I'm in meetings, I'm not sitting at my desk. So a text is always that gets me right away. It's the quickest fastest way. But
Speaker 1:And I'm sure your your tenants know that about
Speaker 2:you. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And I'm
Speaker 2:trying to understand that. But, you know, they still like, in a moment, they're like
Speaker 1:Yeah. I don't wanna
Speaker 2:I don't wanna be a bother. But I also think when someone is picking up the phone and calling you, that also speaks to a level of confidence.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I agree. I think you're also in a different, like, space in terms of how people wanna communicate too. Like Yeah. I'm like, you know, like, things have definitely changed.
Speaker 1:I made it. I know. Because here's the thing. I'm, like, very much people's energy. I like to pick up the phone.
Speaker 2:There's so much that gets lost in email Yeah. And text. And and, like, if I've gone back twice, I just have to pick up
Speaker 3:the phone. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Let's just talk. Let's get into it.
Speaker 2:Let's let's let's hammer it out. I agree. There's something that's not translating. You know? And I'm not a fan of, like, 30 person emails.
Speaker 2:Yes. Like, I don't even know who I'm talking to at this point. You know? So, yeah, it that's that's definitely a thing. Yeah.
Speaker 2:In today's
Speaker 1:in today's world. Well, shifting gears a little bit, I definitely would love to chat a little about, you know, when we talk about memorable moments and even memorable people in our careers that have shifted things for us. I remember you in one of our discussions kind of talking about, this boss that you would have and walking into a room and seeing another woman of color in a senior position Mhmm. And something you weren't used to at the time. And and I'd love to kind of hear about that experience and maybe how that has molded some of your experience
Speaker 3:as well.
Speaker 2:So in 30 years near we, I've only had 2 women of color, that were, like, either a direct report of mine, where I reported up through. And that was my regional manager when I worked for Edwards Communities years ago, and then, my former director at OhioHealth. Mhmm. And I can tell you both of those women, very strong, smart, charismatic, and I've learned different things from both of them at different points in my career too. Right?
Speaker 2:When I was at Edwards, I was still kind of coming up through the the the ranks, although managing. And that regional really taught me how to understand my property
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And its overall financial performance. Miss, she was tough as nails. You gotta be, though. You gotta be. Tough as nails, but I to this day, if I think of her, I immediately think of nothing but what a high level of professionalism and, just delivery of a standard.
Speaker 2:She really, really honed in and taught me the value of stand like, standard, delivery of service. Mhmm. And then having my director for the first time in a, like, a high level like that in an executive level, it was transformative for me
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:In a way that, you know, know, particularly in commercial real estate where we're not women of color are not as represented as a demographic.
Speaker 1:And if so, so, not typically in higher positions, especially. No.
Speaker 2:So to see her in all her glory, the Afro Yes. Smile. And I just remember thinking, wow. Wow. And I didn't really understand the value of that representation when I was first elected to school board.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And it wasn't until I'd gone to the school again, and I saw the faces of other African American students and their recognition of lighting it lighting up, like, oh, and the light bulb going off and seeing how valuable and important that was.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so to to have go ahead. Sorry.
Speaker 1:I was just saying, real quick before you moved on to because you think to yourself, oh, I can do that.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:It was the first time
Speaker 3:that I
Speaker 2:saw yes. That's exactly right.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So sorry. Not to cut you off, but
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 2:It's the first time I saw myself reflected. Right? Like, I saw someone who had a similar career path as myself who is now a director Mhmm. In this, you know, multimillion dollar corporation, enterprise corporation. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And I saw me. Yeah. I saw myself.
Speaker 1:And the fact that you could show up to work Right. With your Afro and the fact that you could show up and yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, now I showed the first time I wore my natural hair wasn't until, like, natural natural hair without, like, all the accoutrements. Yes. Yes. Was at Ohio Equities. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And I was the only African American manager, at the time. I don't know if they've changed that since, but, it's the first time that I wore my natural hair, and I felt completely at home. But they're like my family, so that was, like, not that big a deal. But to see it in a corporate environment
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like a, you know, a very strict corporate environment is totally different experience. And now, like, you know, I see women walking around. They rock their braids. I had just had mine not too long ago before I, cut cut my hair. But, you know, just to see our true authentic selves and and people not all, like, worked up about, like, oh, what'd you do with your hair and all those weird microaggressive conversations
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:Happening. It was just such a freeing experience to see her. She's like an EVP now. She's like a boss. Oh, that's so awesome.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's awesome. That. She's got the the smile, the lights of the world, and it's something that I
Speaker 1:Would you name her for us? Could we give a quick shout out?
Speaker 3:She knows who she is.
Speaker 1:She knows? Okay. Good. She knows who she is.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't mind if she if she knew.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't,
Speaker 2:you know, do that to her.
Speaker 1:No. I understand.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, she's just, just I think back to those 2 women, in the way that they sort of impressed upon me different things without even trying or knowing that they did. They they were gifts to me as a woman of color, particularly in a predominantly white, environment.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I will say I kind of I so I, for the first time ever, last year, wore grades to work. And it was it was
Speaker 3:an interesting kind
Speaker 1:of, like, internals conflict
Speaker 3:music. And
Speaker 1:here's the thing too. Right? Like, when you, like, when you go in when I go and talk about this to, some of my peers and things like that, they're like, why was this such a, you know, internal thing
Speaker 3:for you? And I'm like, because
Speaker 1:I never saw women come in to work with their braids. Everyone came with a silk press. Everyone came late, honey. And the thing about that is, like, at the end of the day, like, I I don't know if you've seen the Dove hair care. Like, they're doing the crown act and everything now, and I got my first pair my first headshot with my natural hair done.
Speaker 1:And I made a LinkedIn post about about it and it, like, blew up and people were like and then I saw some comments. I'm like, why is this a big deal? I don't understand why this is a big deal. Because having to put in the extra effort to lean into my Eurocentric look is something that is it shouldn't that should not be like, I should be able to show up the way I show up.
Speaker 2:I think some people are looking at it through a lens Yeah. That has not ever had to consider Yes. That side of it. Right? You know, my son just got a position.
Speaker 2:He he wants to be a a wealth management kinda guru when he gets out of college, and that's what he's studying in finance.
Speaker 1:We love financial independence.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And, you know, of course, I'm I realize I'm critiquing every choice that he's made. To wear. Yes. Because I'm like, you know, you're a young black man.
Speaker 2:You're going in this environment. You need to, like, present. And he's like, mom, dial it back.
Speaker 3:I was
Speaker 2:like, okay. Yeah. Truly noted. Yeah. But at the same time, to to have the privilege to never have to consider, those factors.
Speaker 2:Right? Like, our counterparts sometimes show up to work, and Yes. And it was interesting because, my colleague,
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:And it was interesting because, my colleague, now well, yes, last week referred to me as spicy. And I thought, okay. I know her. Yeah. I I know her personally, and I love her.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And and I thought, okay. That what the intention behind that statement wasn't how it, like, landed. Yes. So one, you know, you have to check yourself sometimes in spaces where you have to, you know, provide a little grace.
Speaker 2:Yes. But I thought, jeez. I don't know that she would describe my other colleague as spicy.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And she's just as assertive or knowledgeable. Mhmm. And, you know so it was interesting. I let it land, and then I I had to sit with it. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:So we'll talk when when I when I leave the warehouse.
Speaker 1:We'll get there. I you know what's interesting? And this is actually a conversation I was having the other day. We so, I read this article one time, and it was talking particularly about, the way that Spanish people are perceived when they come here. And, this article was so incredible at breaking down some of the things that, we see.
Speaker 1:Some of the biases. Exactly. And, like, one of the things that it was talking about was, so for example, in the on the islands, so in Doctor, it's it's hot. We're right by the equator, honey. It is steaming.
Speaker 1:One of the things that you do when it's warm is you wear, you know, either liner clothing, like linen type materials or just show a little more skin, you know, naturally. Mhmm. And in the article, it was talking about, you know, people that are from these hotter climates. This is something that they're, you know, across their nation, the the wear is this way. Lighter materials, maybe, like, showing a little bit more skin on the clothing, whatever it may be.
Speaker 1:And, also there, brighter colors. A lot of our foliage and things reflect bright, you know, tropical colors, things like that. And so Hispanic people typically are, you know, used to seeing and wearing those type of colors. And the article saying how, like, here, you know, teenage Latino women are typically deemed as spicier because they're wearing a little less clothes. They're wearing brighter colored clothing.
Speaker 1:Also a thing in the islands, you know, there's usually music playing all across the streets. There's usually a lot of, like, dancing and Just
Speaker 2:like that when I went to Puerto Rico.
Speaker 1:Yes. It's just like that. You know? Open streets, people are always playing music. People are always dancing, things like that.
Speaker 1:And so naturally, the decibel is higher, and we speak over each other. And that's even something, you know, people of color in general, like, you you know, you kinda do that game. You know? We talk a little bit. And they're and they were saying, oh, like, the bias here is, you know, Latino women are are so loud.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But it's also a result of the environment by which we were greeted and and that we come from. And I just thought that was such an interesting thing of seeing how our backgrounds and our ecosystems lend to the way that we deem as we live normally. Mhmm. And then when you take that context out of it Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Bias sets in. Mhmm. So I just thought that was
Speaker 2:such an interesting I've spent my career learning to, what people probably call code switch. Yes. But learn how to measure myself because, you know, I come from a a family of very strong women. Yes. And, you know, it's rare that you will find I'm not going to speak my mind.
Speaker 2:I'm never rude or obnoxious.
Speaker 3:I must
Speaker 1:say what I need to say.
Speaker 2:Well but, you know, especially if you ask me. Yeah. I mean, if you ask my my opinion, like, my voice is my voice. Yeah. And so I've spent I've spent my career learning how to measure that.
Speaker 2:I I do feel like I'm at a point now in my career where, I'm less concerned about someone else's bias. And that probably comes from the years that I've spent that I've spent serving on school board because we spent nearly a decade trying to break down that sort of system Yeah. In that culture, if you will. So I'm less concerned with, needing to measure myself. I guess you could say I'm more comfortable in my own skin.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But that is a very real experience, for women of color. I I mean, it's a real experience. Experience. My son is 6 6, 230. He looks like a brick wall.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. And, you know, how does he not shrink himself, but still not, you know, show up and have to deal with someone else's bias. But, again, that's also about them and not about you.
Speaker 1:Yeah. What would you say, because you you have now raised almost every generation of children. All 5 years. And I would love to know a little bit about your experience with doing that. You know, what do you think are some of the
Speaker 2:major differences? And So I take care of my mom, who's a bloomer. Yes. I'm gen x, my husband and I, and then it just goes down there from from or goes from there.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I will I would say, by virtue of just trying to make sure I have my pulse on what's happening with my teenage children, I I have learned the lingo.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:But I also there's a time where I'm like, be free. Do whatever. But then when they're they can't get through a sentence, with me because they're using the slang Mhmm. I correct it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And say, hey. You know, if you're talking to someone at a job, you can't say those words. They're not gonna understand what you're talking about. So what are you trying to tell me?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But I would say the the biggest difference is, I it's the the way the communication styles Yes. Are completely, and I, you know, I have people on my team that are of different generations. Yeah. So understanding how they communicate Mhmm. And really understanding what motivates them because the motivators are very different.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Extremely different. That's been, I think, the key for how I sort of navigate it. It doesn't Yeah. I don't even I noticed the generation, the different generations because they live in my home.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:But I don't obsess. Like, it doesn't
Speaker 1:Yeah. Like, make its way into your
Speaker 2:I know. It looks like you hate. Come as you are. Yeah. Figure it out.
Speaker 1:I will say it to me, like, I because, like, me and my brother are having a conversation about code switching the other day. And, like, I will say this younger generation of kids, they are much less concerned. Free. They're free, honey. They do that.
Speaker 1:Because, like, I was I
Speaker 3:know that.
Speaker 2:How it should be.
Speaker 1:That's I agree. Like, I really, something that I have really come to commend and and, really encourage
Speaker 3:my brother with is the fact
Speaker 1:that, like, when you talk about people that, are just more the fact that, like, when you talk about people that, are just more built, it seems for, like, being confident. Like I think
Speaker 2:I figured that that generation for, like, the last 20 years has come up in a time of extreme tumultuous political Societal. Societal change. Yes. Everything standards have changed. What's out and open and free was not that way 20 plus years ago.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And
Speaker 2:so they I mean, they lived their lives courageously out loud, and I you know, I'm here for it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And and honestly, as a mother, as we should be because right? Like Like
Speaker 2:yeah. I mean, I would rather someone show up every day authentically whoever they are
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Rather than try to be boxed into something because they're not gonna be they're never gonna realize their full potential that way. And if I'm trying to get someone's full potential, highest production, whatever, they're they're gonna do that when they're comfortable with who they are, where they are, and and how they show up. So yeah. I think
Speaker 1:that particularly plays a role when you are And, when you ask for more, you have to show up and be able
Speaker 3:to say I'm worth more. Mhmm. And, when you ask for more, you have to show up and be able to say I'm worth more. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And, when you ask for more, you have to show up and be able to say I'm worth more. Mhmm. And to feel that you're worth something to to feel that you're worth, that you have to have a certain level of confidence.
Speaker 3:You have
Speaker 1:to have a certain level of of security within yourself. I understand you you probably had to negotiate your advancement
Speaker 3:Oh, sure.
Speaker 2:A couple of times. Sure.
Speaker 1:What would you say to that experience, and and what can you kind of talk to our listeners about going through that? What kind of advice can you give?
Speaker 2:Well, so one thing that I I prided myself in over my the span of my career is really understanding and becoming a subject matter expert. So, when it comes to, you know, property management, real estate, there's there's things I don't know. Sure. Yeah. But when it comes to how do you run a building or run a campus or run a portfolio and get its highest performance Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Profitability, all those things. Yeah. I know that backwards and forwards. I can do that with my eyes closed. And the one thing that I had to a recruiter actually, he was so gracious.
Speaker 2:He he said to me, oh, you're just too expensive. And I thought, that's a You know what? Pretty cool compliment. I'll take that. You know, it's a pretty cool compliment.
Speaker 2:And and I said, you know, hey. I get that. I totally get that. Rare that you're gonna find someone with my years of experience, knowledge of that particular product, and understand how to position it. But if that's still not a fit, that's okay.
Speaker 2:I'm heavily connected to people. I know a lot of talent. Be happy to pass someone your way. That that that your opportunity would be a blessing for them. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And, you know, I had to get to a point where, like, I have worked to a certain point in my career that I don't wanna compromise what I earn, and I don't think that I should. But at the same time, I don't you know, people you have to show them what the investment is too. Right? Like, you can't just say, oh, give me more. Give me more.
Speaker 2:Give me more. Well, what's the investment? And my track record my track record shows that.
Speaker 1:I think for that too, you have to invest in yourself. Yes. Like, you've spent years probably learning the HVAC systems and learning the way that these these buildings breathe and live and work. And for that, you know, I one of my favorite interview questions is, what is on your resume that I or what is not on your resume that I should know about? You're right.
Speaker 1:Because that kind of stuff, you know, you can't put some of those things on paper. But if you talk
Speaker 2:to me, honey, you're gonna know. It's so interesting too when you interview for positions. The questions are, they're somewhat generic, and they don't really get to the heart of, you know, what does someone actually know. And sometimes when I'm interviewing, I'm looking for personality. I'm looking for how you responded in stress, how you, you know, and I don't need a perfect answer.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I I just need a human. Right? Like, I need a human that understands human condition and understands what they're what they're gonna be expected to do. Right? So understanding how your buildings operate and how they run or whatever your your field is.
Speaker 2:You know? Just being a subject matter expert is really important because those are things that I call on, like, without having to, oh, I gotta go read a book. Right? Or I've gotta go Google it. Like, I already know.
Speaker 2:I understand. And when I'm talking to a vendor, it it helps those conversations go really smoother and quicker too, especially in emergency situations if I understand what they do Yeah. And how they help what I need. You know? That so they don't have to educate me.
Speaker 1:And that also comes from you asking the questions too because I think that's that's a big thing, you know, for all my property managers out there. You should definitely be if you can meet your vendor out there, go meet your vendor, honey. Ask the questions. Get to the root of what is going on because that kind of stuff can really change your game in terms of what you are understanding and bringing to the table when you have to communicate the same message to the stakeholder that is gonna be paying for these repairs.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Absolutely. And you need to be able to, translate it into, like, just normal conversations so they can understand. Right? Like, they're not gonna understand, you know, humidity levels or whatever unless they're that's what they have to know.
Speaker 2:Like, in a pharmacy, for example, they're not gonna just a regular, you know, person working in an office building is gonna know that. So you have to be able to articulate. You gotta ride both sides of that fence. You know? You've gotta be able to decode what is being told to you and then how to keep
Speaker 1:the same at that. That's a different type of code switching. Yeah. It's what you have to the way that you take the information and display it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because that's another thing, I mean, for for us, like, we have people that prefer charts and graphs. We have people that prefer to see it in sentences. We like, you you it it's better when you have those skills, and those are skills that you can name in your in your interview when you're trying to level up. You get to break that down and let these and and let your let the way that you articulate yourself and what you know about your industry be what speaks for, give me, you know, this extra 10, $15,000 a year and Saturday. Because let's be real.
Speaker 1:Like, we all wanna move up in the
Speaker 2:world. Sure.
Speaker 1:But if you wanna move up, you have to level up. Mhmm. And that comes from Yeah.
Speaker 2:Just becoming an expert at what you do. Absolutely. And being confident in that. Mhmm. I would say largely, they're short.
Speaker 2:Like I said, there's things that I don't know. Mhmm. But when it comes to, you know, building operations and operational procedures and those sorts of things, there is a level of comfort that I have and just sort of navigating that space. But you do have to meet people where they are. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And not be, like, you know, snarky about it. You know? You just have to be willing to, like, kinda Have some humility about displaying that. Pick picking up what they're what they're hung up on. Like, sometimes people get hung up on one thing Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And they don't they they fixate on it, so you've gotta help kinda draw them into another direction. So how do you How would you
Speaker 1:say that you move people along, the process of understanding, certain data points that will get them to the finish line when you think that when people are hung up on a certain place that's kind of deviating from the main point of conversation. How do
Speaker 2:you, like, gently That happens a lot in school board.
Speaker 1:Yes. School board members
Speaker 2:tend to fixate on on data points. Yes. Things that they that they are, like, hung up on. And the well, 1, you have to be a good listener. You have to listen to what someone is saying to you.
Speaker 2:Ask a clarifying question.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Make sure that you understand what it is that they're hung up on. And a lot of times, especially when you're trying to build consensus Yeah. If you're, like, on two sides of something and you gotta get to a decision point, if all these other things weren't a factor.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's my favorite question.
Speaker 2:Shake down. If none of those things were a factor, what what would you want? What do you need? You know? What gets you, to your point of I can operate?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:One of my favorite things too and kind of a version of that question is almost doing, like, the doctor scale. Like, from 1 to 10, how are you feeling on this? Or where do you feel that you are on blank? And then they say, you know, 6. What's the difference between a 6 and a 8?
Speaker 1:This. What's the difference between an 8 and a 10? And and and helping people move along that way because the other thing is you can't shove someone into learning something. It also kinda has to come
Speaker 2:from their own process. It's strange when you, you know, especially when we were, you know, talking about shifting long held cultural biases and beliefs and systems and those sorts of things. And when you're meeting someone where they are, you really are taking a moment to to say what grounds us in this moment. Right? Like, what can we all agree on?
Speaker 2:Yes. Like, if you have a starting point, of what you can agree on, a lot of times you find that you're not that far apart. Right. The 8 to the 10, the 6 to the 8 is not that far apart. Right?
Speaker 2:And that's a communication moment. That's a that's a moment of saying, okay. What do you need right now to get to the 8, to get to the 10? Yeah. And then there's also times where you have to be willing to say, okay.
Speaker 2:We've netted we've come to an impasse, and this this thing is not gonna solve its Yeah. Both both regarding You have to be willing to give. Yes. Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Both both regarding, you
Speaker 2:know willing to give.
Speaker 1:Yes. Oh, yeah. On both sides. It has to be a con I think a lot of times, in 2 things happen. A lot of times, we look at our position in relation to our client or who we're working with or whoever it may be.
Speaker 1:And you don't wanna be the one that is subservient and gives it all. Right? But here's the thing is that you have to give a little, they have to give a little. And it's about holding that business stature and understanding that we both have a role to play in this transaction or this yes.
Speaker 3:But I
Speaker 2:also feel like, at least in my my role, like Mhmm. My client is my client is my client. Mhmm. And so but for that relationship, I wouldn't even be there. So, it is less about me and more about them now.
Speaker 2:You know, if I just have a client just trying to break the rules. Mhmm. Then I'm like, no. Yeah. Here's why.
Speaker 2:Yeah. No. You can't put, you know, your white car's decorations all over an office building. They'll think it's just not okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That white part is important because a lot of times people just need the context. Right. A lot of times people just need to understand because it's like when your parent says, no. Why?
Speaker 1:Because I'm a parent.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:That No.
Speaker 2:Don't lie.
Speaker 1:So, yeah.
Speaker 2:That's why I
Speaker 1:gotta go.
Speaker 2:No. A lot of times, it's just really giving people context and and communicating that. And some people are rarely uncomfortable with, I don't wanna disappoint someone. But sometimes being honest is being kind, and and being honest is a level of integrity too.
Speaker 1:Yes. Because if people can tell at the very least that you have the right intention in this interaction, I always that's one thing I will always say is that sometimes people just don't have the best delivery or sometimes their delivery, almost leads you to believe that they are coming from a completely different standpoint. But,
Speaker 3:with this conversation? What is your end goal?
Speaker 1:What is your mission? With this conversation? What is your end goal? What is your mission? Let's have it
Speaker 2:on my mission. I had my, boss say that, something I was struggling with. And she's like, what what would be a pop what would be a desirable outcome? Yes. And and I had Oh, you did the car.
Speaker 1:Because I was
Speaker 2:I was busy tell you know
Speaker 1:Trying to get into Cropp's.
Speaker 2:Feeling and feeling what I was feeling. I hadn't thought about it. Yeah. Like, when she asked me, it was just like, okay. What is a desirable outcome?
Speaker 2:And I, you know, had to sit with that for a second.
Speaker 1:And then you didn't know
Speaker 2:the path. Yes. And that's exactly what I did.
Speaker 1:And sometimes when you go about doing that on your own, you can see that the way they were trying to get the path, it kind of mirrors what you were trying to do. And that is really what compromise looks like. It's really just trying to figure out what is your end goal. And when you even find out your end goal as well, then we can both work on, you know, how we get there. I think about this, thing that was talking about, like, a spectrum.
Speaker 1:And a lot of times when we think about spectrums, we think about it as this line, just the straight across line. And sometimes the spectrum looks more like a circle, an arch where these two data points are not that far away, but you're taking a long way to get there. And it's it's really just about trying to understand where this person where are you going so we can both understand how you get there. Right. Right.
Speaker 1:So I love it. Well, thank you so much for coming on and speaking. And I just wanna ask one last thing. Sure. If you had to leave our audience with anything from this conversation, what would be your your biggest, your biggest piece of advice or the biggest thing that, you wish someone would have said to you as an early on manager?
Speaker 2:Oh, that's a tough one. I wish my younger self that someone would said, I see you, and I think you can do really amazing things. And I wanna take you under my wing. It's gonna be tough. It's gonna be hard.
Speaker 2:You're gonna have to learn a lot. Mhmm. But if you do, this is where you're gonna end up. And I I feel like I do that now, for people who come and work for me or with me. I try to do that for them Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Because, that that would have been probably I mean, I started in property management just to earn money for books in college, like, on the weekends.
Speaker 1:Probably didn't think it would be your full fledged career.
Speaker 2:Never. I didn't I didn't even think think that. Actually, I was pre law at the time.
Speaker 1:Oh, shoot. Really?
Speaker 2:Go figure. It makes sense to my family.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. They're
Speaker 2:like, she's too in love with a bank.
Speaker 3:I don't like that. I don't like that.
Speaker 2:But yeah. So I I that's what I would say is, and if you have an opportunity I would say if you have an opportunity to learn a new skill, learn new information, and really become an expert at it, take it as opportunity to to embrace that, because that gives you a lot of depth in your career Yeah. As you're trying to navigate. I mean, commercial real estate, has a long way to go as far as, like, sort of opening its doors
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:In a diverse way. And I'm not just talking about the lip service. I mean, it's, like, fundamentally, actually, intentionally creating pathways for for, people of color to come into this industry. And so I would just say, you know, if you have an opportunity to learn something new, either on your own, as part of professional development or whatever, do it, embrace it. Because I I do believe that's part of been sort of secret to my success is that I have done a lot of different things across my career from training to marketing to managing.
Speaker 2:I've never ever, ever, ever fixed a
Speaker 1:thing, though. Yeah. Hey. But you know what?
Speaker 2:That's not my lane.
Speaker 1:I think
Speaker 2:I understand how that thing is supposed to run. Yes. Right? I understand how that
Speaker 1:And that falls under what
Speaker 2:what you Absolutely. And so so in
Speaker 3:that regard, I, you know, I have a lot of depth,
Speaker 2:in terms of my knowledge, and breadth in terms of what I can, offer a client, and that's always very helpful. That gives you a a a a level up and an edge.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. I would agree. I think sometimes in the moment, things that don't seem directly relevant is like, am I gonna go out of my way too?
Speaker 2:Yes. Oh, yeah. Well, then, you know, in this business, you might not see it right away, but 6 months later, there it is.
Speaker 1:There it is. There it is.
Speaker 3:I'm like, oh, I really do
Speaker 1:this. And it will always pay off to just show that you care a little more by doing those little extra things.
Speaker 2:Yes. Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Whatever that looks like. Absolutely. So if you are joining us again, thank you so much for, coming back and listening to us. And, please join us on our next episode. Thank you so much again.
Speaker 1:Thank
Speaker 2:you for having me. I really enjoyed enjoyed our time.
Speaker 1:As did I. Thank you, and see you