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Church is messy podcast recorded at Autumn Ridge Church in Rochester, MN
Church Is Messy, 05-13-2026 Ep143
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Svea: good morning. We're back with Church is Messy. It's, great to be back with you, Rick.
Rick: Has it ... Have I been out a couple of weeks? It's
Svea: been- A
Rick: couple of Tuesdays ...
Svea: a couple of weeks. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Caleb was a couple of weeks ago. Yeah. And, uh, and then last week we were off.
Rick: Yeah. So- I got to take a little time off.
Heather and I did , some camping, and that was a lot of fun. And, uh, we had a really short trip to the Black Hills. The weather was not awesome. Oh. Probably attempted it a week early. We had really a short but really awesome time there. I got to do a little hunting. I got a turkey out in the Black Hills.
Nice. That was, that was a lot of fun. Uh, you got to do some traveling this weekend. I
Svea: did. I did. My youngest son graduated from college, so we were down in Texas to be there f- with him, and what an amazing weekend. Yeah. So fun to see our kids just grow up into adults
Rick: What a great way to experience Mother's Day weekend.
Svea: It was. Yeah. Yeah, it was really sweet. Awesome. We had travel adventures getting home. Mm-hmm. We were trying to fly out of Dallas at the same time that a severe thunderstorm with 70 mile an hour winds and large hail decided to hit.
Rick: That does not sound fun.
Svea: So the whole airport was on a ground stop for most of the afternoon and evening.
Flights got canceled. We ended up getting home yesterday, but it was still all good.
Rick: Okay. Yeah. You are beaming right now. People can't see you. But, uh, I could see just the delight that you have in, uh, in your son and his new wife- Yeah ... and, uh, what you got to, uh, see in him and experience on Mother's Day weekend.
So, congratulations.
Svea: Thanks. Thanks. Yeah, as, you know, reflecting on, on motherhood, there's, there's a lot of days you're just putting in- Mm-hmm ... all the work. But, uh, weekends like this l- last weekend show the, uh, the investment is worth it.
Rick: What is that expression? I, I think I've heard this, uh, from a couple of different moms over the years, "The days are long, but the years are short."
Svea: Yeah.
Rick: Yeah.
Svea: Yeah. Oh, it's so true.
Rick: Okay.
Svea: It's so true. It's so true.
Rick: So, parents out there, hang in there. And it's worth it. You're making a great investment.
Svea: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And we've got- Mm-hmm ... a granddaughter due almost any day now. So- Wow ... I'm getting to watch it again from a- Okay ... different angle.
And yeah, life is good.
Rick: All right. Good stuff. Good stuff. Three,
Svea: two, one, go. Well, I was sorry to not get to be here for church on Sunday, but I did watch online. And, uh- You are forgiven. Thank you for that. I did go to another church. I- So I had a, a good experience getting to just be a visitor at someone else's church.
Rick: I like church shopping
Svea: You know, it's a hel- well, hopefully not church shopping- Well, church- ... but church attending ...
Rick: I, I, yeah, maybe that's not the, the, the most accurate term. But no, I do enjoy getting to attend other churches, and, uh, it always makes me appreciate our church, but I also get to learn, and- Mm-hmm
um, I like the opportunity to put myself in the shoes of a guest, somebody who's there for the first time. Yep. Um, sometimes mentally, I, even all the work that we do, you can't really do that unless you do that. Mm-hmm. And, uh, so being that new person that doesn't know anybody, it really, really helps me see things in a fresh way.
So you got to do that.
Svea: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, it was good fun. Good, and it's, in an enjoyable experience to be a visitor at another church when you're- Yeah ... staff at this one, and to just pick up on the little things, like- Mm-hmm ... you said, to learn maybe some ideas that- Mm-hmm ... we can tweak and improve and- Yep
and other things where I think, "Yeah, we're doing that pretty well. I like how we do it here." I
Rick: mean- I'm that guy at a church, I'm, I got my phone out, I'm taking picture, I'm taking pictures of the slides on the, on the screen. I was doing that, too. Yeah. I'm just like, yeah I can't stop. I love it.
Svea: They, they do this cool thing- Mm-hmm
uh, at this church where they have a quarterly book that they recommend for everyone to read, and then- Hmm ... they have some, like, discussion questions and some verses that go along with it, and I was like, "Oh, that would be kind of fun." So I'm, I'm dreaming about a few things. Okay. And- All
Rick: right. I dig it.
Svea: Yeah.
Rick: I dig it.
Svea: Yeah, so that was a fun experience. I don't know. We've gotten off tangent here again. I guess my point was- Mm-hmm ... I wasn't here in person for this last weekend service, but, uh, but got to watch online, and we're into a new section, a new season, if you will- Mm-hmm ... in, uh, this Church in the Wild series through 1 Corinthians.
Mm-hmm. So you had the food fight.
Rick: The food fight passage, yeah. Some stuff was going down, and the church was divided over what you can't eat, uh, what you can eat, and, uh, man, how that affects relationships, how it impacts the decisions other people make and their relationship with Jesus, and whether they sin or not.
Yeah, it can be something that we just kind of take for granted and seems so simple, can actually be complicated, but hopefully the, the theme of it, the, the main point, uh, hopefully came through clear enough that, uh, it, uh, it illuminates how to engage not only those, but really all kinds of different relational situations we find ourselves
Svea: in.
Mm-hmm. Well, in the context of this passage, so the, the tension point was- Mm-hmm ... addressing eating meat that had been sacrificed to idols. Yes. So you spent a little bit of time talking about idolatry in a little bit of a subtle way, um, maybe not idolatry that we might think of as biblical- Mm-hmm
idolatry, or I mean, not, not biblical, but idolatry as- Like historic ... as depicted in- You're going to a, a- ... the Old Testament ... a
Rick: temple, and there's a statue and stuff like that. Yeah.
Svea: But we still wrestle with some of the same ideas in where we find our security, our significance, or our satisfaction. We can be tempted to place that in other things, making those things a form of modern-day idolatry.
Rick: Sure. So we have non-explicit idolatry, non-tangible, l- we're not going to a temple where there's a, where there's a, a statue or something like that. But anything that we look to to find significance, security, or satisfaction in life other than Jesus, that's an idol.
Svea: I thought you asked a, a really healthy, thought-provoking question- Hmm
in that idea of, like, what is it that you think if I just accomplish this, achieve this- Mm-hmm ... finally attained this-
Rick: Yes ...
Svea: I would, you know, fill in the blank- I'm put together ... have that contentment or- I'm
Rick: enough, I'm there. Yeah.
Svea: Mm-hmm. And, uh- And I spent some time thinking about that and realized there are probably a couple of things that I've held out as life goals- Hmm
thinking, you know, once I achieve that goal- ... then, I'll have a greater sense of accomplishment or satisfaction, and realized, ooh, maybe that's a warning sign- Yeah ... if I realize there are those thoughts in my mind- I think- ... to take that into account ...
Rick: I think it's certainly worth leaning in, and we're not saying that it's wrong to have goals.
Like, it's not wrong to want to get a certain number in a bank account. It's not wrong to wanna have a relationship status. It's not wrong to wanna get a house or a certain job or any of those things. But if we're using those things, so th- to say, "That's where I'm gonna be enough. That's where I'm gonna find ultimate fulfillment in life.
That's where I'm gonna find significance," we are we're walking, uh, from a Biblical perspective, a spiritually deadly path.
Svea: So in the point that ultimately our security, significance, and satisfaction comes from- Mm-hmm ... being known by and being loved by God-
Rick: Yes ...
Svea: and that everything that we take inward- Mm-hmm
everything we project outwardly- Mm-hmm ... should be on that foundation.
Rick: That's right.
Svea: Talk a little bit about what that looks like just on an ordinary Wednesday.
Rick: On an ordinary Wednesday. Yeah, and so, uh, in all of our life pursuits and in all of our relationships we are never using that person, that relationship, that pursuit, that job, that stat, anything, in order to write the story of who we are.
I'm good enough. I'm safe enough. I have enough. Instead, we can enjoy those things for what they are. We can use those things and engage with those people as God intended, and we can give without demanding or needing something in return to be okay.
So let me just stop there. How, how does that sound so far?
Svea: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Rick: So w- when you get to, like, the big promise at the end, which really comes from the way that Jesus loved us, I'll never sacrifice your wellbeing on the altar of my freedom, the reason that I'm convinced that that only works if your starting point, uh, for all of those things is Jesus, is because, Svea, in, in work relationships and in personal relationships and work relationship, i, i, in family relationships, romantic relationships, all of them- If my need for significance is not solved, and met, and fulfilled in Christ, ultimately I'm going to try to get the feeling of significance from other people.
And it's not like I'm trying to be mean. And I say, "I thought the Theo Vine story was great. I loved his vulnerability." I want you, I, I, I need a certain response from you. I want you to think that you're pleased with me, right? That's not sinister wanting someone to look at you and say, "I'm, I'm pleased with you.
I, I'm proud of you." The problem with trying to find ultimate fulfillment from somebody else is we will ultimately do whatever it is we have to do to get that from someone else, and so we start to use them. And so all the things that we do in the relationship, even acts of love, deep down become transactional, and that wounds us, and it wounds the other person.
Mm-hmm. That's why we need a starting point where we're like, "No, no, no I have significance, um, and that comes from Christ, and because of that I'm free from the madness of this pursuit. And so I'm able to receive from you without strings attached, and I'm able to give to you without strings attached."
This is an incredible profound life of freedom that I'm talking about that too few of us actually get to experience.
Svea: Mm-hmm. I hope this doesn't sound like a tangent, 'cause in my mind this is very much connected. Nope. Uh, but, uh, you and I are part of a cohort with some other pastors. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Uh, and, uh, in the beginning of the last Zoom that we had last Thursday- ... uh, a lady was leading us through a spiritual exercise starting with Psalm 23. Yeah. And just, just looking at that first verse that begins, "The Lord is my shepherd. I lack nothing."
Rick: Yeah.
Svea: And, uh, and we spent a little bit of time- Mm-hmm
just kind of doing some breath prayer practice- Mm-hmm ... through that verse and focusing on that verse. And that just really struck me in that moment that, yeah, if we have the Lord- ... as our shepherd, the one who is looking out for our needs, who is- Mm-hmm ... watching out for our security, who is- is directing us to where we need to be, we lack nothing. And I, I spent a, a couple of days in my own personal devotions just really- Mm-hmm ... focused on that- Mm-hmm ... of if I truly believe that because the Lord is my shepherd- ... I lack nothing. Yeah. And it's, it ... Maybe, you know, you commented you noticed that I just- Mm-hmm
am beaming today. Yeah. I think part of the gratitude that I feel is- Mm-hmm ... connected to that- Hmm ... of just feeling because the Lord is my shepherd-
...
Svea: I lack nothing. That, that it's helping me not to be looking to other things- Mm-hmm ... right now to try to find what I need. And
Rick: this isn't hype. That I find
Svea: in the Lord.
Rick: This isn't platitude. Uh, this isn't naivety. You could say that. Even in the midst of profound loss.
And you know that. That's your, that's part of, that's part of your story. Uh, to some extent, that's in all of our, all of our stories. That even when the good things in life that are good to pursue, when I lose them or they are taken from me, in Christ I still lack nothing.
When you know that, that is a profound sense of confidence and security and significance and fulfillment that I want people to know.
Svea: Mm-hmm.
Rick: And it is, it- you're not gonna find anything like it out in the world, and it takes lots of time with Jesus, just a lot of time with Jesus, understanding what it is that we actually have in Him.
Svea: Yeah. So pivot back- Mm-hmm ... to in this passage, it has a verse that may be quite well-known to a lot of people of, who have studied First Corinthians- Mm-hmm ... at this idea that knowledge puffs up- Yeah ... but love builds up.
Rick: That's so good, right?
Svea: Uh-huh.
Rick: Oh, my goodness. I, I loved just thinking about that a lot-
Svea: Yeah
Rick: getting ready for the sermon.
Svea: Okay, so think about that in practical terms. Mm. Are, how do you see that play out, um, maybe particularly in the church world as someone's knowledge increases, ... and, and/or as- Yeah ... their love increases?
Rick: Yeah, so i- we've talked about this a bunch, and, a- a- and I think it still needs to be talked about more.
Uh, we grew up in an era, and really for the past 30, 40, 50 years, it seemed like the way to do discipleship to follow Jesus is believe the right things or know the right things and do the right things. Mm-hmm. Know the right things, do the right things. And knowledge is great. We need kn- we live in Rochester, Minnesota, home of the Mayo Clinic.
Uh, there's also a big IBM office, and there's all kinds of benefits that we receive every day that we take for granted that comes from what these people know. Yeah.
Svea: Uh- We're a community of people who are disproportionately knowledge workers.
Rick: Oh, my goodness. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I'm so grateful. So it w- it, it's not downplaying that.
It's just knowledge by itself, this is what's gonna, just gonna puff you up. And it is, it, knowledge by itself, it does not, doesn't grow character, doesn't grow humility. It doesn't necessarily grow a track record of, of helping people. It can really just expand the sense of confidence that we, that we have and can produce a sense of self-reliance.
So knowledge is great. It's wonderful. We absolutely need it, but knowledge by itself is never, it's never gonna be, ever gonna be good enough. It's, it's that, it's the- Connection to, it's marrying it to love that orients us correctly with how we, how we handle the knowledge that we have.
Svea: So what does that look like as someone is increasing in their knowledge- Mm-hmm, yeah
of Jesus, in their knowledge of the Bible, and their knowledge of scripture? It makes- How do you use that knowledge in a way that is loving towards other people?
Rick: Yeah, and so I think it's important to remember this, is that the measure of maturity in the Christian life isn't what we know, it is how we love.
It's loving Jesus and loving others the way that we've been loved by Him. The two greatest commandments, love your neighbor uh, love your neighbor as yourself, and to love the Lord your God with all of who you are, heart, soul, mind, and strength. The problem with just knowledge is people think, "Well, I'm getting there," or, "I'm growing, I'm arriving because I've memorized more Bible verses," which is great.
Or, "I understand more books of the Bible," which is great. Um, "I've read the Bible cover to cover," which is great. "I know theology," which is great. "I know all of those things." Uh, s- all of that is wonderful, but if it's just that, oh, you're gonna be a dry, hard-edged, cold follower of Jesus. Knowled- the point isn't just to have concepts that we understand in our brain.
The point is to know Jesus, to be with Him, to become like Him. Mm-hmm. And then to, and then to do as He did. And, and so an emphasis on knowledge, and, um, if you're kind of an analytical person or an intellectual person which I think we can both relate to, we just love kind of consuming information, it's great, and we geek out on information, we feel great about information.
That in and of itself is not enough. Mm-hmm. You remember the time Jesus was talking to the Pharisees, and he's like, "Listen, you guys search the scriptures 'cause you think in them you, you find eternal life, but they all point to me. They're about me." Mm-hmm. It should drive us to Jesus. It should drive us to a person and real relational engagement.
So just knowledge alone- it's not enough.
Svea: You know what's beautiful in that is it levels the playing field- Mm-hmm ... for people at all stages of their spiritual journey. Yeah. That people can be new in Christ- Mm-hmm ... and still learning quite a bit- Yeah ... about the Bible and theology, but have the opportunity to, to act like Him.
Yeah. To do what He would do, to show love to someone else- Mm ... to care for someone else, to show- Yeah ... compassion to someone else. And, uh, that there isn't like this- Mm-hmm ... this long, many, many years- Mm-hmm ... process of having to go to school first before you're good enough to be- Yeah ... a, uh, a Christian or something.
But- Yeah ... that right from day one, we can begin seeking- Mm ... the, the work of Christ to become more like Him- Mm-hmm, yeah ... and begin doing as He did- Mm-hmm ... um, even as we're growing in knowledge. Yeah. And I think that's kind of a, a beautiful thing- Mm-hmm ... about the Christian life.
Rick: Yeah. I, I, you know, it would be tough to love Jesus without any knowledge of
Svea: Him.
Rick: Right? It'd be trust- it'd be tough to love the Bible and trust the Bible without any knowledge of it. So knowledge is absolutely important. But knowledge and love together that's what we wanna orient towards.
Svea: So another key aspect- Mm-hmm ... in this passage was the idea then of setting aside some of our own rights in order- Mm
to show that love- Yeah ... to other people.
Rick: Yeah.
Svea: And, uh, and maybe even say no to something that we have complete freedom to do.
Rick: Maybe even say no to something we need.
So can I talk about what didn't make it off the cutting room floor? Yeah, please. Uh, we're gonna skip over the, the, like, first 18, 19 verses of the next chapter in, in this c- this coming weekend.
And Paul he gives a personal application of how he's, how he's trying to li- how he actually was living this out, and he had the right to bring a believing spouse with him. He had the right to, uh, to be paid for the work that he was done so he could im- give all of his time to ministry, and he, he really spends a lot of time talking about that at the end of chapter eight, really the beginning of chapter nine, and he says, "But I choose not to do that.
I work on my own. I don't take any, any money from you." And it's because, it's because he was ... I think that he had the sense that for some reason it would compromise his credibility or his influence, and so he said no to his own rights to be paid for the ministry work that he was doing. He funded it through a side hustle, through his own business, so that he could devote, uh, himself in giving to the Corinthians without asking for anything in return.
And my takeaway from that is sometimes as responsibilities increase, rights decrease. And he said no to a right that he had so that he could better steward the responsibility of leadership with the Corinthians. Now that's, that's not a one-size-fits-all approach. Um, it's not always, it's not always realistic.
I hope this is, this is the attitude that I operate from. I know I say attitude you operate from. It's the attitude I want everybody who works on our staff to operate from. We don't get paid so that we will do ministry. We get paid so that we can. And it is a, it's a real, it's a real privilege.
And we wanna, we wanna steward that, steward that well, and we wanna be grateful for the fact that the money that we receive as, uh, payment for employment comes from the generous and faithful voluntary giving of people, uh, in, in this church, and it frees us to be able to do what we wouldn't be able to do if we had to work a side business or a side hustle in order to do this.
So we're, so we're, so we're grateful. Paul chose to self-limit that because he thought that the relationship needed it. And people who are people of love, like in the way of Jesus people of love will say, "You know what? Yeah, I'm owed this. I deserve this. I have a right to this. I need this. This is a freedom I have.
I'll set it aside. I'll set... I won't claim it, because I am way more, I'm way more invested in what you need from me than what I can give to you right now."
Svea: Mm-hmm.
Rick: That's a higher priority, and man, that is, that is not like what I see out in the world. Yeah. It's not the love songs I hear on the radio. Or or Spotify.
I don't listen to the radio. It's not, it's not, it's not what movies really are built around. It's not what Dis- Disney's built on. It's not, it's not what anything is built on. It's not what, it's not the way people are in government. I mean, this is, you don't see that anywhere. You only see that in Jesus- Mm-hmm
and people who are shaped by him.
Svea: Yeah. So, so you brought up the analogy of- Mm-hmm ... we're free to drink alcohol if- Yeah ... we choose to- Mm-hmm ... responsibly. But doing that in the presence of someone who is in recovery-
Rick: You're a jerk.
Svea: Yeah. I, I didn't hear. Hopefully you got a good laugh out of that.
Rick: Yeah.
Svea: Uh, can you think of other examples of that in the Christian Church of laying aside something that we're entitled to do- Mm-hmm
but it could be something that could be a stumbling block for someone who's maybe newer in their faith, and they're still seeking to understand the way of Jesus?
Rick: Anytime we give up any of our preferences-
...
Rick: To make things easier, uh, for others at church, anytime we're just others oriented, right?
Mm-hmm.
Svea: So it really comes down to a lot of hospitality.
Rick: It comes down to a lot of hospitality. Yeah. It's so, it's like, on Easter Sunday, when we change our, we change our service times to be able to accommodate more people who are gonna come and people who aren't normally here who wanna come because it's because it's Easter Sunday and, and they, they wanna be in a church.
And so we, everybody- Gives up their Sunday routine. Everybody who normally would be here gives up their Sunday routine and makes hopefully what feels like a very minor accommodation just to help other people. That would be.
Svea: Sure.
Rick: That would be an example.
Svea: Uh-huh.
Rick: It's all kinds of things. We could come up with a list of a, of a thousand things.
When you sit in a service and you're like, "I don't really like that song." You know, I don't know if people think that because I'm the pastor, I must ... All the music must be the kind of music I like. No. That's not, no. No, but there are times it's like, "This is not my jam," but you know what? I know it helps these people over here, that person over there, so I'm happy for
Svea: it.
Uh-huh.
Rick: Yeah.
Svea: So I like that example- ... because I think that helps us to stay in this mindset of what, what is a healthy motivation. Yeah. Of I'm gonna lay asoun- lay aside something that I- Mm-hmm ... might want for myself- Mm-hmm ... in order for it to connect with- Yeah ... someone else or serve someone else- Mm-hmm
or help them as they may need a little bit more support in especially the beginning of their own spiritual journey.
Rick: Yeah.
Svea: That's helpful- Mm-hmm ... because one of the questions that I had written down to, to bring today was what happens if this mindset of I need to give up my own rights in order to accommodate someone else is something that either gets manipulated or we- Mm-hmm
start to do it in a sense of trying to just become a people pleaser- Mm-hmm ... or maybe have a weaker motivation that isn't what scripture's pointing us to?
Does that make sense?
Rick: Yeah. You know, um, if you are telling somebody that they need to give up their rights to accommodate you, you probably got a problem.
I'm ha- I'm struggling to, to think of a healthy expression of that.
It's supposed to come the other way, where someone says, "No, I choose to lay this down so that I can serve you," not you telling me I have to to, to serve you. That's what manipulators do.
That's what exploiters do. That's what abusers do.
That's what toxic people do. Now this is a, this is a voluntary thing. This is a voluntary thing. It's the, it's the way that we're called into. Um, it is the way of approaching, uh, one another that we are commanded into, but it's not some ... It's not you saying, "Rick, hey, you have to give up this right to, to serve..."
No, no. That's just, that's not how it works. Mm-hmm. And, yeah, that's always gonna be a problem, and that's always gonna be a toxic mess. This is something that we voluntarily choose to do.
Svea: And that could go wrong- Towards the
Rick: other, yeah ...
Svea: even from the opposite direction, too- Say more ... where, where someone is maybe- Mm-hmm
um, feeling like- They're insecure. And so in order to win someone else's favor I'll give you what you want- Mm ... in order to make you feel better. But fascinatingly, this passage does have some cr- self-correction in that, in that if we are doing, if w- Mm-hmm ... if we're laying aside what we want in order to please someone else, but we're doing it to become a people pleaser, then we're doing the opposite of what we initially talked about, about finding our security and our confidence in Christ.
Rick: Okay. This is good. You gotta remember that the point is to serve someone else's best interest, their, their wellbeing, not necessarily what they, what they want. I was raised in, uh, a church culture that provided a lot of great things for me, and also provided a lot of things that I had to deconstruct and get rid of.
Part of it was just this kind of judgmental bent that was, that was ug- that was ugly. And here's how this passage was abused. "I don't agree with drinking alcohol, therefore you're wrong if you do drink alcohol."
Svea: Mm-hmm.
Rick: Well, that's just a perversion of this passage. This passage is not saying ... Like, a modern application of this passage is, Svea, if, uh, if, uh, if you like to drink wine, and I'm like, "I just don't think w- drinking wine is a, is a good idea.
I, I'm actually abstained from any alcohol," then it's now wrong if you drink alcohol. Mm-hmm. That's, that's, it, that's not what this means. It's if the use of your freedom would expose something in me that's a vulnerability that would lead me to go against my conscience and then do something, uh, that would lead me to sin and violate my commitment, my allegiance to Jesus.
That's the application. Does that make sense? Mm-hmm. People are allowed to disagree. And it's not like you have to comport your behavior to match what everybody else thinks is, is right. We would self-limit if using our freedom exposed a vulnerability and led someone down a path that would result in their sin.
Svea: Well, and, and in this passage- Mm-hmm ... Paul's making it clear that it's- Mm-hmm ... the person who has a greater maturity- Mm-hmm ... who is making accommodations for the- Mm-hmm ... person who is weaker or maybe more vulnerable.
Rick: Yeah.
Svea: And so, yeah, it's not from a position of just trying to be a people pleaser.
Rick: Yeah. No. You're not trying to, you're not trying to plea ... I learned this from somebody years ago. Uh, her name is Andy Lambert. We worked together, and she said, "Don't live your life to please people. Live your life to love them."
It's a big difference. It's sometimes doing what is most loving for someone, they won't be very pleased by because they're oriented towards something incorrectly.
Does that need more?
Svea: Yeah. Do say a little bit more. I'm still processing that
Rick: Every mom knows this, every dad knows this, every person who's ever tried to, uh, coach or teach a kid, sometimes, like, the most loving thing to do is to have a kid, you know, do a chore or do a homework or run a drill at practice that they didn't wanna do, and they're mad that you're making them do it, but it's actually the best thing for them, right?
Svea: Yeah. '
Rick: Cause you're being loving, but they're not happy about it. And so if you live your life to please people, all you're doing, all you're doing is you are locked in an ever-losing game where you're just serving whatever they want.
It's like emotional roulette. You never know, you never know what it's gonna spin on, you never know what it's gonna, it's gonna land on. But you, you never get to be wise. All you have to do is be a doormat for what other people want, and that's horrible. That's not good for, for anybody. If you live your life to love people, you're like, "Okay, what is in your best interest?
What do you need? What's good for you? I'm here for that."
Svea: Yeah. Well, and maybe as we wrap up- Mm-hmm ... just bringing this full circle to this idea that if we are finding- Mm-hmm ... our security, our significance- Yeah ... um, our satisfaction in Christ- Mm-hmm ... if we know that the Lord is our shepherd- Yeah ... and because of that we lack nothing- then we don't have to worry about losing anything. Yeah. We've, we've got everything we need. We can love others- Mm-hmm ... from a position of abundance.
Rick: So here's the deal. If, say, you have to make a decision, and you, you're trying to do something that you think is in my best interest, and I'm, like, mad at you for it, right?
You haven't lost your standing in life. You are not less of a person because now I'm being cold towards you or withholding attention from you or anything like that, right? You are still who you are. You have all of your worth. You have all of that, and you can stand confidently in that because Christ is the source of it all.
Svea: Yeah.
Rick: Not my immature response.
Svea: That's- It- It's a really powerful place to be, isn't it?
Rick: And
Svea: it- Powerful in the best way.
Rick: And if you're like, "That sounds scary," yeah, sometimes, yeah. This is why it's so important just to be with Jesus.
Svea: Yeah.
Rick: Oh my goodness. To, to, to know him and to really marinate in what you have in him and from him and what he's done for you.
And the more we see that, the more clearly we see that, I think the better we understand everything else around us.
Svea: Yeah. Good stuff.
Rick: All right.
Svea: Well, thank you for this conversation. Look forward to, uh, to next week, and, uh, we've got a couple more weeks in our 1 Corinthians series. This has gone by so fast.
Really enjoyed it.
Rick: Now that it's at the end, it feels like it's, it's gone by fast. We got just a, a few more weeks, and I'm looking forward to what's, I'm looking forward to what's coming next. I think it's gonna be fun. But, uh, yeah, it's- It's been a while. You know, someone came up to me this weekend. I know you're trying to land the plane.
I'm just going to keep the podcast going. Um, someone came up to me and said, "You know, I've been... I, I've listened to the sermons. I re-listen to it, re-listen to the podcast. I know you said back in the beginning that, um, it was gonna be long and you didn't know how people were gonna respond to it," but it, and this person just said, "It's, I've just really enjoyed it.
It's meant a lot to me." And so I'm, I'm so glad. They mean, it means a lot to me. Like, this journey that I'm on, studying these passages, digging in, I feel like, man, I... If I could just help people experience a little bit of what I feel like I'm experiencing- Mm-hmm ... it's a win.
Svea: Well, I think, I think we'll look back on this 1 Corinthians era- Yeah
of our church and see all kinds of wonderful lessons that we've learned through this text and- Yeah ... and through the things that God has brought out through it. So thank you for
that.