Lioness Conversations: Brave Stories of Women Leaders & Female Founders | Women leading with confidence, empowerment, entrepreneurship, innovation, impact | The Lioness Code: Confidence, Calling & the Power of Stillness

Jen Porter's "Lioness Conversations" podcast typically features her interviewing other inspiring women, but in this uniquely heartfelt episode, the tables are turned. Her friend and former spiritual coach, Michelle Mullins, takes the helm to interview Jen herself, offering listeners a rare and intimate look into Jen's own "Lioness story." This powerful conversation reveals the profound journey Jen has undertaken to become the confident and purpose-driven leader she is today.

Jen shares how her collaboration with Michelle began three years ago during a "dry, hard, sad season" where she felt called to integrate her faith more deeply into her work but didn't know how. Michelle became her trusted spiritual coach, guiding Jen through a period she describes as a "cocoon" — a dark and scary metamorphosis. From this transformative period, Jen emerged, much like a "soaring butterfly," with crystal-clear purpose: to empower women to fulfill their God-given purpose in this world.

The episode highlights several key aspects of Jen's journey and her philosophy:

The Power of Retreat and Deep Listening: Jen emphasizes her need for silence and solo retreats to engage in deep listening, both to herself and to God. This intentional practice helps her quiet external noise and discern her next steps, embodying a "counter-cultural" approach to productivity.
Leading with Love and Excellence: Jen passionately articulates her belief that true leadership is an honor and should be rooted in love and care for people, rather than solely on metrics or performance. This "counter-cultural" perspective, deeply influenced by her faith, seeks to avoid burnout and foster deep, soul-satisfying impact.
Trusting Self and Spirit: Jen discusses how a foundation of micro-decisions and trusting her inner peace has built confidence, allowing her to take risks and make decisions, even when the path isn't fully clear. She views trusting her instincts, intuition, and the Holy Spirit as one and the same.
A Legacy of Faith and Community: Jen's heritage of strong, joyful women of faith, particularly her grandmother who embodied selfless care and purpose, profoundly shaped her. This lineage, coupled with her belief that "we're not designed to do life alone," underscores the vital role of community and mutual support in navigating life's challenges.
The Lioness Within: Ultimately, Jen's mission is to help women recognize the "Lioness" within themselves – an inner strength that perseveres through trials and pushes past societal barriers. Her podcast and upcoming book serve as a mirror, inviting women to see themselves as brave, worthy, and capable of making their unique impact on the world, acknowledging the challenges and fears along the way to ensure relatability and genuine inspiration.

The episode culminates with Jen revealing her current "brave stretch": finishing her book and launching live coaching sessions on the podcast. These vulnerable steps, shared with the support of her community, exemplify her commitment to walking the talk and continuing to inspire women to embrace their own powerful purpose.

Find out more about Jen's work: https://www.jenportercoach.com/

And Michelle Mullins' work: https://www.spiritledvoice.com/

Chapters

00:00
Introduction to Lioness Conversations

00:57
The Journey of Faith and Leadership

05:55
Empowering Women Through Coaching

09:53
The Importance of Deep Listening

15:03
The Power of Retreats for Reflection

18:52
Leading with Love and Excellence

25:02
Finding Peace in Decision Making

30:00
Trusting Yourself and Taking Risks

34:12
Defining Personal KPIs for Life

38:29
Heritage of Faith and Purpose

42:29
Navigating Life's Battlefield

46:06
The Power of Community

53:54
Embracing the Lioness Within

58:55
Being Brave in Vulnerability

Creators and Guests

Host

Jen Porter

Corporate leader turned entrepreneur, I created "Lioness Conversations" to amplify the voices of extraordinary women—leaders who have faced fear, overcome challenges, and are now shaping the world with their work. This podcast is a space for courage, truth, and deep inspiration. My mission is to empower women to be brave, leading with confidence and joy, to do the most meaningful work of their lives.

Guest

Michelle Mullins

Michelle Mullins is based in beautiful Western North Carolina. She is a prayer strategist and key collaborator with mission-minded leaders, drawing on over two decades of remote work experience and deep faith. She blends coaching with prayer, mentorship, and strategic collaboration to help clients dream big, pray often, trust God, move forward, and celebrate life.

What is Lioness Conversations: Brave Stories of Women Leaders & Female Founders | Women leading with confidence, empowerment, entrepreneurship, innovation, impact?

Welcome to Lioness Conversations, the podcast dedicated to uncovering and celebrating the extraordinary stories of women who embody fierce strength, tender hearts, and a relentless drive to make a difference in the world. 🦁✨

Jen Porter (00:00)
Hey, Lioness, welcome to the show, Lioness Conversations, where we help women be brave to lead with confidence and joy and to find your path to the most meaningful work of your life. I'm your host, Jen Porter, leadership and empowerment coach for ambitious and heart-centered women. You can find out more at jenportorcoach.com if you want to join the Lioness community or maybe you want to nominate a Lioness for this podcast. Today we have a very

very special guest, Michelle Mullins. Michelle is based in beautiful Western North Carolina. She is a prayer strategist and key collaborator with mission-minded leaders, drawing on over two decades of remote work experience and deep faith. She blends coaching with prayer, mentorship, and strategic collaboration to help clients dream big, pray often, trust God, move forward, and celebrate life.

Michelle, welcome to the show. It's finally here. And I have to tell people where this is coming from. So this is going to be a little bit of a different podcast episode because Michelle has agreed to do a little bit of a takeover and host today's episode and explore my story because she knows that I'm probably not going to do that on my own. And so, ⁓ Michelle, you actually,

Michelle Mullins (00:59)
Thank you, Jen. I'm so excited to be here. It's finally here, right?

Jen Porter (01:26)
share the idea like, hey, let's get your story on the podcast. People want to know who you are and what your story has been. And I just really appreciate your willingness to come in here with me on the Lioness Conversations and do this. I feel really honored by your willingness to do this. So thank you. And I want to tell a little bit of a backstory about how we know each other. So about three years ago, I was

feeling led to figure out how to bring my faith and my spirituality deeper into my work with women and leadership. And I really didn't know how to do that. It felt like a vague calling and not a specific one. And so I just needed some help and support and guidance. And I wanted to surround myself with others who were doing this. And so through multiple connections.

There was like this, you know, line of, okay, a woman named Sam introduced me to Dale who introduced me to you. And we met, had a conversation and you were my coach for a long season and still are in many ways, maybe not as formal now, but you, I called you my spiritual coach. You never called yourself that, but that is how I would refer to you. I remember you would point me to

Michelle Mullins (02:46)
I love that. No. Yeah.

Jen Porter (02:53)
Bible scriptures when I was trying to problem solve something and it was like, my gosh, nobody does this. It was so rare. It was such a gift and our relationship has evolved. So we've done so many things in collaboration and partnership with one another now. And now we're in community, you know, in touch nearly daily supporting one another, praying for one another.

encouraging one another. And it's just a beautiful thing that I just feel so blessed to have your friendship.

Michelle Mullins (03:31)
And I feel blessed to have your friendship. And I can't believe it's been three years. They say time flies when you're having fun, even though we've had the hills and the valleys. The three years have really flown by. And yeah, it's just been so interesting and such a gift just to walk with each other in this organic community that came to be.

Jen Porter (03:45)
Yes. Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Michelle Mullins (03:58)
seeing behind the scenes of you stepping into and stepping up and seeing this podcast come to be. And so every time I was listening to your new episode, I'm like, they need to hear your story. They need to know behind the scenes. They need to know how this came to be because you are moving with a mission. You're so good at elevating others. was, I wanted people to hear what I get to hear behind the scenes. I didn't want that to not be heard.

Jen Porter (04:28)
Thank you. And you have seen the highs and the lows of my life and my experience. I mean, you've been with me in the tears and in the like screaming at the top of my lungs with joy and, you know, excitement, all the highs and the lows. You've seen that over the last three years and it's been quite a journey. Like it's hard to believe where I am now versus where I was then. You know, it's just...

Michelle Mullins (04:55)
Yes.

Jen Porter (04:58)
It was just a really dry, ⁓ hard, sad season three years ago. There's a lot that I was still processing and working through and to see what's come out of that season where it was, you know, I think a lot of it like a butterfly where we're in the, you know, we're a little caterpillar. We're just like doing life and we think this is what life is. And then there's this metamorphosis that's coming.

Michelle Mullins (05:02)
Mm-hmm. Mm.

Jen Porter (05:26)
but we don't know what's gonna happen. And then we find ourselves cocooned and it's dark and it's scary. And we feel like we're never gonna find our way out of that cocoon. That's how it felt for me when we were working together three years ago, not knowing like how in the world am I gonna make this calling that I feel inside of me come to be when I'm such mess, you know? like I didn't feel like there was any impact and

and then to emerge over time from that cocoon into a soaring butterfly. I'm not going to say it's all beautiful and easy, but it's different. Wouldn't you say that's true?

Michelle Mullins (06:08)
Right.

Absolutely, absolutely. just even your heartbeat, which I would love for you to clarify and just say that again, like the mission that you're on, even how this podcast came to be, because so much of our story is woven into this story of how this podcast came to be. I think that's part of that intersection of why ⁓ we were drawn together, right, for this purpose so that this can come to fruition.

Jen Porter (06:36)
Yeah.

So I will say clearly that my purpose is to empower women to fulfill their God given purpose in this world. It is to empower women in the work that they are called to do, that they're made for, created for. And so the way I do that now is I do that through coaching group and one-on-one coaching. I do that through this podcast. mean, everything that people hear me doing in this podcast is celebrating the amazing work.

of women, elevating their brands and their work so that the world can know this is happening. This woman is doing this work in this world and to really help just spread the message and encourage her and help her see herself as a Lioness because we do not see ourselves that way. Most of us would just say like, I'm just kind of doing my thing. You know, I'm just doing the best that I can. I'm putting this out into the world, but

Michelle Mullins (07:27)
Yes. ⁓

Jen Porter (07:38)
I don't even know if it's making a difference or we just doubt ourselves. We doubt the impact. We don't see our own light. And so to be able to do that for others through the podcast, through the book that I'm writing, which is basically taking the stories and sharing them in book form of these lionesses, ⁓ you know, it took me a while to get to this place of clarity. It just does. It just takes time. But when you and I connected,

Michelle Mullins (07:46)
Mm-hmm.

Jen Porter (08:08)
It was wanting to blend that, my spirituality and my faith, which is deeply important to me, into my work and not knowing how to do that. And then also I remember being afraid of saying, I work with women. That's my heart. It's not that I don't work with men. I do work with men, but my heart is for women. I feel like that's my calling. And so then to even distinguish that and say, I empower women.

Michelle Mullins (08:14)
Mm-hmm.

Jen Porter (08:38)
to lead with confidence, to be empowered in their work. That's my heartbeat. That's what I'm gonna do.

Michelle Mullins (08:40)
Mm-hmm.

It is your heartbeat.

And I think it's so interesting, right? It's go to the depths. It's go to the dark. You can't be going.

a particular piece without being able to hear that heartbeat. Of course, I will clarify, if you're running fast, your heartbeat is really fast. The rhythm is really fast. But to slow down and hear the rhythm behind the heartbeat of what's really pulsing through your body, through your veins, I think some of that external noise has to go away. It almost has to be that being put in the cleft of the rock, so to speak. Like, I need this hidden cocoon.

to help me hear what you're doing in here. ⁓ It has to be that intentionality. So I heard that rising in you. Like I heard that heartbeat of, you didn't just say like, I feel called to women. It didn't come out that way. Like you said, it was this, it was this thing that you were moving towards that maybe you couldn't articulate at the time, but there was, ⁓ I don't know, I'm not gonna describe it for you, that,

Jen Porter (09:26)
yeah.

Michelle Mullins (09:53)
if you feel comfortable, would love it, is just that scene. Like it was almost like a battle going on, right? That was there and you were drawn to a person on that battlefield. There was such an orientation coming there. Would you unpack that a little bit of what that looked like?

Jen Porter (10:04)
Yeah, that's right.

Yeah,

you're jogging my memory about that, but I'm amazed that you remember that. love that. ⁓ I did get a word from God to coach women of faith. And that was just...

It was in a sense what I was already doing. And I thought, but it's vague enough that it's like, what does that mean? How do I find these women who needs this work? And so that was this phrase that carried me through. And I kept circling back to that. But it's interesting that you talk about the being hidden. Like you probably remember that phase where I loved being hidden. I needed to be in hiding.

retreating from and I don't know that I had put it together that that was probably to reduce some of the noise that was around me because our culture is really loud.

Michelle Mullins (11:11)
And you're a listener, you're a deep listener. Like there was, I'm gonna interject here just for a moment because I was thinking about this and reflecting upon it earlier. Like there was some aspect of your listening skills that I picked up on in this setting, like either on the phone or on Zoom, but you and I actually got to meet in person last year and we were with another one of your podcast guests, right? And I got to have that interaction in person.

Jen Porter (11:11)
And so I needed to.

No.

Yeah.

Michelle Mullins (11:40)
And I noticed your listening skill at a different level. You know, that I got to see that full range of that observant person in you that was really powerful. So I think that's such a key in your Lioness journey.

Jen Porter (11:43)
Hmm.

I am definitely a deep listener. And you probably noticed that too in the interactions, I'm not the one talking a ton. Like sometimes I'll light up and I'm like, I've got something to say. But I am just naturally in that deep listening posture.

Michelle Mullins (12:00)
Yeah.

You ⁓

But when you

speak, you speak with purpose. There's purpose behind the words that you're sharing. So you pay attention to that, right? Like me, like look how many times I've naturally interrupted. My husband says I interrupt all the time, so I apologize. That's why I'm not the best at what you do, right? Like it's, I'm a noticer and I'll interject, but that.

Jen Porter (12:24)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Michelle Mullins (12:43)
That listening, it's just in that observant when you're speaking with attention versus somebody that talks a lot, talks a lot, talks a lot, you hear their voice a lot. When someone's quiet and they speak up, they alert you. Like what do you have to say? You pay attention. So, and it's kind of like, I would imagine you listening to God in that way or where he was drawing you. You had to get quiet so you could hear his voice. Cause sometimes he's that way.

Jen Porter (12:57)
⁓ huh. ⁓ huh.

I have to be, I have to get quiet.

I have to get quiet. Yeah, I am a person who needs silence in order to do my deep thinking and to do my own deep listening, which my listening, when I'm praying and I'm seeking to listen, like God may want to say something to me. That happens for me in my journal. It might come to me in a moment, just moving through my day.

But a lot of times when I carve out space in my journaling time, I stop writing and I literally write the word listen in my notebook and I stop talking, thinking. I try to slow my mind so that I'm not doing the thinking and talking and I start to listen and that's where it always happens for me. But if I get interrupted, I can't have a lot of things happening around me.

It breaks that deep listening that I can access.

Michelle Mullins (14:13)
Yeah, and I'm remembering too, this is, there's a couple strands here, line of strands that I wanna follow. just listening here that, that's kind of how you operate in the counter-cultural way of, you talked about before, you've mentioned the chains of hustle, right? It takes intention to move against the grain or to go in the other direction. And part of that listening or being quiet.

You have that intentionally built into your life. I would say that's one of the first things that I noticed about you. You're like, I'm going on retreat. And there are these regular rhythms in my life, but I'm going by myself. A lot of people don't go by themselves. Right? So do you mind dancing in those waters a little bit and telling us what that looks like or how that benefits?

Jen Porter (15:03)
Yeah, yeah.

So I started doing retreats. I'm thinking back, it was when I was at International Justice Mission and I was writing my story. I wrote and I ended up writing my story. I have a literally a handwritten manuscript of.

my story, went through 20, 30 journals, but I needed to go away in order to do that work. And so the way I found to be able to write was to go on these solo retreats, go somewhere beautiful in the woods and be by myself. And I found a rhythm in how I do retreats. And so that's probably been over 10 years now, probably.

10-12 years now that I've been doing that and I remember the first time I went on retreat I was with so I had you know friendships through my work in DC and I told my friends that I was gonna be gone for you know a few days and They were like where where are you going? And I said, I just found this place in you know, the Virginia mountains and They're like, well, who are you going with? Well, it's just gonna be me

Michelle Mullins (16:17)
Mm-hmm.

Jen Porter (16:20)
Are you gonna be okay? Like they were truly concerned. Like are you gonna be okay by yourself for three days? And I was like, what are you talking about? Yes, this is gonna be glorious. But I mean, yeah, but I'm like, that's probably my safest, most peaceful place is by myself. So, but that was an introduction that like not everybody is comfortable with that. But it is a, I,

Michelle Mullins (16:24)
Yes!

Yeah. Says the introvert, right? Yes, it's great.

Jen Porter (16:49)
I did those probably quarterly to get the book written. I mean, that was my goal. And now I do it for myself, my own soul and for the business because I need to understand what is, what am I to do in this work? What is the next step? What is my focus for the next quarter? And I can't do that in my, in my world that I'm in there's

too many other competing demands and responsibilities and needs and people around me that need me. So I have to silence all that and get agreement from my community. Like, hey, this is what I need and create the support around that. so people know, you're like, my people know that when I'm on a treat, my phone's off and I'm not accessible. And that's taken time for me to have the courage to ask for that.

and to actually honor that and know that they're going to be okay.

Michelle Mullins (17:54)
Yeah, and what I think is beautiful, again, you're talking about a 10-year journey of something fast forward to your podcast and the book that you're working on and the interviews that you do. You take their stories away into these quiet places and really ponder and pray and listen through. Like, you honor every story.

Jen Porter (18:06)
Yeah.

Okay.

Michelle Mullins (18:22)
I think that's so beautiful in so many ways, just to say this didn't happen suddenly. This is something that's been brewing and percolating and cultivating in me for a very long time. was just, it was time to listen and it was dark at the time. It was fuzzy. And then the other thing that's coming up is when you do that, I think, you you talk about the Lioness rising, you rise differently. And another

Jen Porter (18:32)
Yeah.

Michelle Mullins (18:52)
component of you is that ⁓ leading and leadership. You recognize leadership, but it is a very specific leadership. It has two components that you mentioned, so that love and excellence. But I would love for you to make those more than just two words we're saying out loud, but build what does love and excellence look like to you?

Jen Porter (19:20)
So I have this belief that leadership is, it's an incredible honor to lead in any way. And it's essential for our world. There's self leadership and there's other leadership. There's family leadership and there's work leadership. There's all kinds, but we're always leading. I think there's a history of leading from

a place that ends up creating toxicity. So leading, you know, fear-based leadership or power-based leadership or... ⁓

There's just ways of, there's forceful leadership. And I think those things come from when we get ⁓ desperate, when we are ungrounded and untethered from something deeper, and when we are overstretched.

Michelle Mullins (20:17)
Mm-hmm.

you

Jen Porter (20:26)
When

we're in overwhelm, mean, all of those are survival mechanisms. Some of those may be intentional, but most of the time it is not. It is not intentional that I'm leading through fear or leading through force or coercion. That just comes out of this striving desperation to be successful. I'm putting that in quotes. So I think there's...

Michelle Mullins (20:40)
Hmm.

Yes.

Jen Porter (20:54)
a higher calling that we have, which is to lead with love. That is leading with intentionality, leading with care and concern and understanding that the impact that we have is pretty significant. No matter if we're working at a gas station and you're leading a team or if you were, if you were, you know, have a, you know, company of

thousands and thousands of employees worldwide, the impact on people is just as important. And so when we care for the people that we're leading, to me that is more important than the output. How much we sell, how much revenue we make, and all of that is very counter. It's counter-cultural, it's...

Michelle Mullins (21:42)
Yes.

very.

Jen Porter (21:52)
It's not how we're rewarded. It's not how we're rewarded. It's not how we're trained. You know, I can't think of any training that I've gone through in a corporate setting or nonprofit that was about leading with love and the impact on the people. It was about hitting the metrics. Here are our KPIs. Here's your performance review. You're going to get rewarded based on hitting these markers.

Michelle Mullins (21:59)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jen Porter (22:22)
And it's not, you know, I ⁓ am posting next month about what if the first thing that your people said about you is that, is how you loved them. What if when I asked, you know, your leader ⁓ or asked your team, what would, would, what would you say about your leader? If they would say, I feel loved by them. Wow. Cause I, I have an eternal perspective.

Michelle Mullins (22:51)
Right.

Jen Porter (22:51)
It's

one of the things that it's how I see the world is this is all one giant story that is unfolding and we are playing a part in it. And so if we get to myopic, it's all about like nailing the next task or launching the next product or hitting the revenue targets or getting through whatever project this week, as opposed to thinking about what is this

bigger impact and what is my role in it and what are the eternal consequences of how I'm leading, the choices that I'm making, how I set priorities. So that's what I'm saying is like it's so countercultural because we're so used to focusing on the here and now and how we are rewarded by a certain kind of performance that ends up

Michelle Mullins (23:25)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

That's so good.

Jen Porter (23:51)
burning people out. It's not like when we hit those revenue targets, like, that's so satisfying. It's not, it's not, especially if you're doing it for somebody else. You know, if you're just trying to, it's, it is, that's true, that's true.

Michelle Mullins (23:58)
Wait.

Right. Or it's fleeting, right? Like it's like a dopamine hit of like, here you go.

Like there is that satisfaction of accomplishment that can happen, but it doesn't last if it's not, like you said, tethered to the depth of something bigger than yourself.

Jen Porter (24:15)
That's true.

You're right, it's a dopamine

hit, because it feels like, I mean, check a little tiny box off on our day. It's like, yes, I got that done. Feels good. But I'm talking about that deeper soul satisfying. Like, is this fulfilling my soul? Because our soul is what truly matters. I mean, our heart, it's hard to differentiate between the heart, the spirit, and the soul, in my opinion. But that inner...

Michelle Mullins (24:28)
Right? I love a list. Yeah. Yeah. Yes.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jen Porter (24:49)
that thing that's gonna last forever after these bodies die, that thing that lasts forever, how are we caring for that? The eternal aspect of who we are.

Michelle Mullins (25:02)
Yeah, that word hidden is coming back strong because I think I heard you say this somewhere along our conversations of like, my soul is hiding and I want to invite it to come out to speak.

Jen Porter (25:15)
That is another ⁓ kind of tiger lion reference. And it comes from, I want to say Parker Palmer. In one of his books, he talks about how the soul is like a wild animal. And that wild animal, if you go out into the jungle and you're looking for this wild animal, it's not gonna show itself. It's gonna be hidden in the bushes and the trees.

Michelle Mullins (25:24)
Okay, I don't know who that is. Yeah.

Jen Porter (25:44)
It's gonna be in this protective state, because it doesn't know what's coming and the soul is very much like that. In order for, he says, in order to see that wild animal, you have to go into the jungle and you have to sit and you have to wait and you have to wait. And eventually that wild animal might emerge and you can get a glimpse of it. That's the soul.

Michelle Mullins (26:14)
That's the soul. And it's a different kind of boldness to sit in that space. Right? When we think of bold, we think movement, bold, fist closed, action, get it done. This is a different kind of boldness that it requires again. Not only goes against the culture, but whew, to get quiet and listen to your soul. Sometimes we don't like what it says. So to be willing to sit in there and be vulnerable.

Jen Porter (26:15)
Yeah.

It absolutely is.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Michelle Mullins (26:45)
is powerful. And I would say too, the level of depth that I noticed during our very first conversation, that doesn't just happen overnight either. There are usually a moment or multiple moments along your timeline where you've encountered something that you are passionate about or that you're moving with a mission about. ⁓ It's not surfacey.

You may not be aware of it, but I noticed the depth. You were aware. So I like your verbiage of milestones along the way. Is there a milestone in your life that you learned this principle of not only being quiet, but being bold to be quiet, to listen? Yeah, and to move and to lead with love and excellence. I feel like that

there's milestones there that you learned this lesson.

Jen Porter (27:49)
So what comes to mind is every time I change jobs because

I always wanted to be, so a lot of people will describe me as a super intentional person. And I didn't know that until people reflected back to me, like, you're really intentional. I'm like, I guess I am. But I never wanted to move into anything that wasn't for me, that wasn't gonna be an intended part of my path. I did not wanna move into something that was just for the title or just for the money or just for the...

Michelle Mullins (28:10)
Yeah.

Jen Porter (28:27)
brand recognition of a company, I really wanted to know is this my step? And so I have to be quiet in order to access, I call it a combination of boldness and wisdom. So almost every step that I've taken has required some level of boldness. It just takes courage to take big steps. And my big steps might,

be small steps to somebody else, that's okay. But for me, they felt significant. So I use prayer to get quiet and go to the source, the source of who holds my life in his hands anyway. And seek that guidance and try to, the other thing I do is I follow my peace.

Michelle Mullins (29:09)
Yeah.

Jen Porter (29:20)
So I have to get to a place where I feel peace about something before I'll do it. It could be little things, anything, and obviously big things too. But peace that surpasses understanding is in the scriptures. It's the peace that surpasses understanding means that I can, and I can feel it in my body what peace feels like in order to take the next step, even if it's hard.

Michelle Mullins (29:27)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jen Porter (29:47)
So when I'm making a job change or I'm considering working with a new client, anything, it's do I have peace about this? You know, I'm praying about it, do I have peace about this? And then leaning into it to see if that peace continues. And if the doors continue to open, right? mean, doors can close and it's like, okay, guess that wasn't it. That's not the path. So it's getting quiet. ⁓

Michelle Mullins (30:00)
Mm-hmm.

Jen Porter (30:15)
letting myself be led by God and then moving into action based on having that foundation of combination of peace that then, ⁓ obviously using my own brain, my brain and prayer and then moving into a place where ⁓ I'm stepping in with boldness and wisdom.

Michelle Mullins (30:17)
Mm-hmm.

I see so many principles of discipline and like an athlete and you have that athletic background, but these seem to be a different muscle that you've strengthened over time. So how does that equip you for the split second decisions that you have to make when you aren't able to contemplate? But when you take these deep dives, how do they help you in the moment to moment present now?

Jen Porter (31:03)
Yeah, that's true.

You know, I think what it

is is trusting myself over time.

Michelle Mullins (31:11)
Woof.

Jen Porter (31:13)
Because, I teach, I coach on this all the time. Women have, women need to learn how to trust themselves. It's taking risks that are rooted in, ⁓ in the wholeness of my life, I feel like I'm in the right place. The right place in my marriage, the right place in my geography, the right place in my work.

Michelle Mullins (31:17)
Mm-hmm.

Jen Porter (31:41)
the right place in my community. And so that's a foundation that's been laid by micro decisions over time. Knowing that gives me a confidence that then I can take some risks from that stronger place. So taking a risk and trying some things out and seeing how it turns out. Like I'm gonna trust myself in this moment. Everything in me is saying, yes, do this. Or I don't feel right, you know, like,

There is something that I don't know what it is yet because I'm a processor and I'll figure it out later. Right now, this does not feel right in my spirit. So this is a no. Do not go any closer. So it's those, ⁓ it's being in touch with my body, with my emotions, with all of me to make those decisions in the moment and then look back on it.

Michelle Mullins (32:10)
Yeah.

Jen Porter (32:38)
How did that work out? It's like, oh, that was a really good decision to work with Michelle. Right? That was a really good decision. I felt it. I leaned into it. I said yes. And look what's come. I could never have known what would have come from that decision. So it's reflecting back and making, I always say that, know, wisdom is doing today what we're gonna be proud of tomorrow.

Michelle Mullins (32:42)
Yeah.

Amen to that. Yes.

Jen Porter (33:09)
And so is this something that I'm gonna be proud of? Is this rooted in my values? Okay, go. I might make mistakes, that's okay. That's okay, clean it up. Sorry, you know, there's all kinds of ways to clean things up. But learn from, learn from the history of our own life. You know, what's good and where did I make great decisions? And then just, you know, building that trust in ourselves. I use the word,

Trust, ⁓ trusting self, instincts, intuition, and Holy Spirit, all the same thing.

Michelle Mullins (33:43)
I love that. that I'm about to say three letters that really I have not applied to my own life. This is part of the spirit led conversation that we have. But so the ⁓ KPI is that and I'm ignorant to this. So I don't actually know what I'm talking about except for the key performance indicators. It seems like there are special things that you pay attention to to see if you're on course. It seems like that in some way is similar to what you're talking about, but you're measuring something different that

Jen Porter (33:53)
Mm-hmm.

Michelle Mullins (34:13)
maybe it's not out there in the world. Your KPIs are different. And forgive me if I'm speaking out of something I don't know anything about.

Jen Porter (34:17)
Yeah.

No, you're right. You're right. That's exactly what it is. And I use the word, I use the acronym KPIs because people get it. People understand that because they're in the world of being measured by KPIs and it's someone else's like someone else created it. I mean, maybe you're a leader and you set your own KPIs for you and your team, but it's for the company unless you're your entrepreneur, unless you're the entrepreneur or the owner of that company, then you get to establish it and you it's based on what your wisdom is, not someone telling you what to do.

Michelle Mullins (34:51)
Wow, something, okay, so something just happened in you, like that energy, that was a whole different state that just came alive in you. So there's some part of the KPIs that maybe you have energy around that you see value in, but there's a greater calling that's coming. What are the Lioness KPIs that you feel like you really wanna highlight?

Jen Porter (34:55)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

It's totally worth

That's a great question. So the

energy that you just saw comes from me having lived the corporate and nonprofit, I did both, world, understanding what the pressure is in those organizations. And I love helping people navigate it. Now navigate it for their own excellence and success, but always, always helping them find the deeper meaning of what is your purpose? And how is this helping you fulfill that?

I'm always gonna call people deeper, right? So if someone says, hey, you I wanna get a promotion. It's like, I could help you do that. But why? Like, what is this for? Why is this important to you? And then you get to those deeper levels of, wanna actually care for my family. Like, I'm the breadwinner here. I need to make more money, okay. All right, but it's.

If you start here at the surface, I'm always going to bring you deeper, right? That's why our conversations are so amazing.

Michelle Mullins (36:12)
So, yeah, exactly. We like the depth, right? We like to go in that water, but we like to surf

too. Like we like that activity in the action as well. So interesting. ⁓

Jen Porter (36:19)
Yeah, we do. That's true. I mean, the KPI's,

the Lioness KPIs, ⁓ you know, I'll tell you one thing, like I've got a whiteboard here. And over the years, this whiteboard has had so many things on it related to revenue, goals, metrics, because I was taught by others. That's how you

but can be successful as an entrepreneur, you hit these targets. And recently I just erased all of it, like all of it. And right now it says, with love and heart. And then I've got God at the top, me abiding in him, and then fruit of the spirit. In other words, that's all noise. The other stuff was just noise. And now it's this,

How can I be surrendered to the one who created me, who actually has a purpose? Crazy enough, like a purpose for my life and everyone's life. So I see everybody through this lens. I can't help it. I just do. I see everybody as uniquely gifted, incredibly special, made on purpose, and there is purpose for their life. So if I can help people align with that, even in small ways,

That's where the deeply satisfying stuff comes from. Deeply, deeply satisfying. Even when it's super hard.

Michelle Mullins (37:55)
And you've seen this lived out. Like the one that's coming to my mind is your grandmother, right? Planning that fruit tree. She held that space for others. That is deep, right? That is deep. You've seen this. You've witnessed this. This is coming from a place of, from your observant and noticing even in your lineage, even in your history.

Jen Porter (38:21)
So I'll talk about the lineage and then I'm gonna answer your question from a while back in this conversation about the battlefield.

Michelle Mullins (38:25)
Yeah.

Jen Porter (38:29)
So I come from a lineage of faith. So my grandmother, grandmother's on both sides, ⁓ but grandmother on my mom's side and her sisters, they were best friends, all four of them, five of them. And they were women of faith. They lived it out. They were full of joy, even in hardship.

You know, just they carried that deep joy in them. They laughed together. They loved each other. They loved people around them. They loved me. I felt so loved by my grandmother. So what I saw is just a toddler, like a little kid. I would see my grandmother when I would stay at her home. Women would come over to her home and I would be playing with my brother and some cousins and and I would, you know, peek into the living room and she's praying with a woman who's crying.

I have no idea what they were talking about, but she stood with these women. She prayed with these women. She encouraged them. She held these women who were dying, you know, based on whatever they were going through. And every morning I would wake up and I would come downstairs and I would go into the kitchen. Grandma was already awake. She had had her Bible open. She was reading her Bible. She would see me. She would close her Bible.

and she would get up and open her arms. So delighted that I was awake and to just welcome me into the day. But it was so, it said two things to me in those moments. The Bible was important to her and whatever she was gleaning from it was incredibly valuable for her to spend that time, but she also could put it away and see me.

It made me feel like incredibly special that I wasn't interrupting her.

that I was important in that moment. So the trees, I found out later, she had a beautiful property. It was a dream that she created and she raised her family there, my mom and my mom's brothers, and she planted these trees. I think it were fruit trees on the property. My aunt told me later, and I don't know how many years ago, that

she had planted those trees for heaven to be able to enjoy so that, you know, the Bible talks about the new heaven and the new earth that when, you know, when all things are made new, that we'll be able to enjoy.

So she, I just was, I was like, wow, she was on another level. She was on another level.

Michelle Mullins (41:26)
Right? I remember hearing

the story when you told me and I was wow.

Jen Porter (41:32)
Yes, and then my grandmother's sister, her oldest sister, Margaret Jensen was a Christian author. So all she did was write stories. I mean, she wrote books and books and books and traveled around the world telling stories of God's faithfulness. So that's my heritage. That's my inheritance. That's where I come from. And I always say that I can't ever explain this, but there are times where I feel that I'm living out the prayers that my grandmother prayed.

Michelle Mullins (41:50)
It is.

Yes.

Jen Porter (42:01)
just feel that connection from her. So you mentioned the battlefield earlier. There's this imagery that came to me when I was working at International Justice Mission, which is anti-slavery, anti-trafficking work. I saw myself, like, you know, there's the battlefield, meaning that this life is pretty hard. Like it's...

There's a lot of really difficult and dark things that happen in this world, always have, always will, until Christ returns. And I saw my role on that battlefield as someone that would come alongside the injured and speak words of encouragement to them, to remind them of who they are and to remind them of their purpose.

so that they could get up from their despair and their hopelessness and their injuries, know, like emotional injuries and get up and keep going in this thing that they're called to. There's some important thing about this battle, this, you know, we're part of an army in a sense. And what is our role in that? And I remember, you know, it kind of looks, the imagery looks like a nurse.

Michelle Mullins (43:07)
Yes.

Jen Porter (43:26)
in a way like or a doctor, somebody coming to help the injured. And a friend of mine said, I don't think that's what your role is. I actually think I see you more as like leading the army. Like you're the one leading people in the fight. And I, I received it, you know, it's, cause it, we need other people to help us see ourselves more clearly. And so it, when I think about the,

Michelle Mullins (43:50)
Absolutely.

Jen Porter (43:54)
imagery and the work that I'm doing, it is about coming alongside women who have been, you know, lot of the women that I work with have taken an injury that is, that has created self doubt. There's, there's something, there's a wound or many wounds that have caused them to, their confidence has wavered.

And they're tired, like, you know, they've got decades of life and work and they're tired and they've been hit a few too many times on that battlefield. And I am somebody that comes alongside them on that journey and helps them rediscover, rename, remember who are you? What are you created for? What is your purpose? Where did you get off track?

Michelle Mullins (44:31)
Yes.

Jen Porter (44:53)
Let's get you back on track to make the impact that you're designed for in this world. That's my natural gifting.

Michelle Mullins (45:03)
It is. I keep hearing your, your science, you know, the way that you close this podcast, which it's not time for that yet, but it always stands out so strong because it is that power of seeing like it's that Lioness in me sees a Lioness in you. And it's almost like your grandmother was saying that when she was in the word, when she had her Bible open, but then she would close it and she, it's almost as if she did the action of those words for you. And then I can't get over the fact that like,

your aunts, like there was a network and this brings out so much of your heartbeat for community. Yes, there's value in the alone. There's value in the partnership of coming alongside. But then there's another level of value that you have witnessed in your life and experienced in your life of we might even going in the same direction, but doing it together, doing life together in community is powerful and vital.

Jen Porter (45:43)
Yeah.

Michelle Mullins (46:04)
Can you speak to that?

Jen Porter (46:06)
It is so vital. I'm just so clear that we're not designed to do life alone. And I think that's really hard for the American culture because maybe especially for our generation and the generation before us that was so ⁓ independent and I'm gonna make this happen and this rests on my shoulders and we don't ask for help. mean, we haven't been nurtured to ask for help. And so...

It's a difficult thing when ⁓ we're trying to do things alone. And I think there's so much isolation now, which is so tragic and devastating to the human spirit. But we are absolutely made to do this work and this life together.

I mean, we need each other for so many things. You know, I often talk about the in the Book of Acts, where there's this community that is so for each other and they're so connected in unity that they are willing to give of the things that they have to offer to the community. And then they receive.

from others within the community, the things that they don't have. We're all like that. We all have something to give and we all lack. We all are in need. And so to find that in community, even in small ways or like one-off ways, it matters so much. Like right now, ⁓ you know,

Michelle Mullins (47:31)
Yes. Yes.

Jen Porter (47:50)
You know this, my mom has dementia and has for a very, very excruciatingly long time. And so I am in a place of needing things that I can't get from my mom. And I need things from others to sustain this season of ⁓ just the loss, but also the needs, like the caregiving needs that my parents have.

And so I recognize that there are things that I need from older women who have been through this. And just yesterday, a friend from church who is my senior and she, I just mentioned to her, like, hey, I've been kind of swamped and overwhelmed trying to find care for my parents. And she said, do you want to get together for coffee? And instinctively what I thought was no, like,

I'm good, got so much going on, don't have time. And then before I had a chance to respond, thank God, I thought, yes, yes, I need to have that conversation with this woman who has already gone through this with her mom. And there's something that she has that I don't yet have that I need. those, could be, you know, that's one way that we can engage, but

Michelle Mullins (48:49)
Thank

Mm-hmm.

Jen Porter (49:21)
There's just, I just, think about things that people are going through in their lives.

outside of work, right? Work is intense, it's a lot, it's full on, it's overwhelming, like for most people. Most people that I work with. And yeah, there's so many other layers to them.

that are happening. You know, my friend just lost her brother yesterday.

I think about like the, you know, there are just so many things that people are carrying. You know, we could all, if we scan our life, even, you know, we have our own things that we're carrying that are hard and painful. If you scan our lives, think about all the people around us that we know who are suffering, who are hurting, who are carrying mountains.

People need support. We need to be real with one another. We're so used to putting on our brave faces. We need spaces where we can be authentic, show our tears, and be held. To be held. ⁓ Literally, literally touch, you know, to be held, to be hugged, but virtually, emotionally, spiritually, there's times where we need other people to hold our faith when we can't.

you know, to navigate the relationship.

Michelle Mullins (50:53)
And the confession,

right? Like I'm thinking about shout out to Mindy, we love you, Mindy. You know, that our prayer and our like daily accountability to one another for both the joy, the sorrows, but even the hard or the themes that were like, I do like, I'm wrestling with this emotion or these thoughts that I know that God is stretching me and growing me. And I just want to confess this to you that I don't want this in my life. I want something different. I'm

I'm trusting God. Will you pray for me? Will you believe with me? Will you? And it's such a beautiful place and to be vulnerable, you know, and then to be cheered on and to be encouraged and just having that confidence in Him.

Jen Porter (51:24)
Yes.

Yes.

There have been so many times where

I've... How would I say it?

I stand on your strength, right? There's certain days where I'm standing on your belief. I'm standing on your hope.

Michelle Mullins (51:44)
Yeah, right.

Jen Porter (51:55)
I'm standing on your steadfastness because I don't have it today. And I'll have it another day, but I don't have it right now. And to be able to, yeah, it's a, it's miraculous really energetically we can give to other people from our presence, from our words, from our thoughts, our prayers. Isn't that kind of amazing?

Michelle Mullins (52:10)
It is.

Mm-hmm.

It is amazing. And the level of awareness and noticing amplifies in that cocoon together, right? It is a organic strengthening from the Holy Spirit that you just, I don't know how you get it otherwise. But the other thing, so much, I want to connect so much of what you're doing on this podcast because it's not just like, okay, I'm going to do this and have an interview in different things like,

Jen Porter (52:31)
Yes.

Michelle Mullins (52:54)
If you're listening or watching, can hear Jen's story of like, it is a movement, but it's not just a movement. It is a deep abiding well of purpose that is flowing, that is welcoming, that is empowering, that is ⁓ full of love and excellence, that call to the higher, to the more beautiful, to the awe.

to the wonder, to do the different things. So take me one more strand here, Jen, where, you know, this is podcast world. We don't know where technology is going, but take me to 30 years later, you know, and there's a young Lioness who's looking back, you know, and listening to this. What do you want her to know that stands the test of time? Something that you can pass to them.

Jen Porter (53:54)
It's two things. It is know that you yourself are a Lioness. it's the way that I define it is an inner strength, but

It's not an, it's not a out of control strength. It's, there's this, what I see in every story, if you listen closely to every story, there is a persevering strength that women have endured that has allowed them to get to the place where they are. They had to persevere through trials, challenges,

⁓ A lot of the themes, this is amazing, especially in the book you'll see that should be hopefully, ⁓ God willing, released at the end of the year. That's my hope.

Women were literally told they couldn't do something by others. Literally, people in authority in these women's lives, they were girls often, they were told they could not do something. And there was ⁓ a fervor that rose up in these girls at the time, now women, that was like, I don't think that's right. I think I can. And they pushed through.

those cultural barriers that would try to hold them back from fulfilling what they were made for. So I want women and girls around the world to know that there is a Lioness inside them that is what's required to fulfill their purpose in this world. Number two, I want them to be brave. I just want, I tell stories of women being brave because we all need

those models of what they've overcome to take the risk, to do the thing that felt scary, to not know what was gonna happen and to do it anyway because they were so connected to their purpose. And it's important to me in the podcast to have the women tell the stories of their challenges when they felt afraid and how they handled that, what felt scary to them, what feels scary now.

what feels uncertain now because they're not done. Because that's the part that makes them relatable. If we just celebrate and elevate like, wow, she's gotten to this point, she's making this huge impact in the world and she's got this whole team of people that are doing this work and it looks like this amazing success, but if we don't tell the story of how she got there, it's not gonna work. We're gonna be like, we could never do that.

Michelle Mullins (56:34)
Right.

Right, false reality. Yes.

Jen Porter (56:51)
I don't want to put one on the pedestal.

A pedestal to say like, she's arrived and everyone else should just look up at her. You know? It's like, no, we are all the same. There's nothing more or less exceptional about any of us, right? We're all amazing creatures. So, to be brave.

to tap into the Lioness inside of us because I do find that, so I guess what the podcast is doing is serving as a mirror for women to see themselves. It's an invitation, like I always say, everything about this Lioness work is an invitation because the women that come on the podcast aren't coming to me saying, I'm a Lioness, could I be on your show? They're not. Almost everybody, it comes from an invitation first of all.

Michelle Mullins (57:42)
Right.

Nope. ⁓

Jen Porter (57:50)
We need to help the women and girls in our lives to see themselves as leaders, as miraculous, as brave, as worthy, and call that out. you know, ⁓ everybody in the book, they came from an invitation. Someone else has said, you are amazing and your story needs to be told.

Michelle Mullins (57:50)
Yes.

Well, that's right.

They're seeing them before you see them. It's like the previewing of them. Someone else saw them and then you bring that out even further. And so I have to ask this question, right? Because like you said, it's not an arrival thing. It's not that we don't arrive. It is a way of life. It is deeply dependent on God and one another. But this I know,

Jen Porter (58:22)
Exactly.

Right.

Michelle Mullins (58:44)
You challenge yourself in this. You're very, you walk an integrity of this. So how are you trying to be brave right now? Like what is your brave stretch right now? What are you being brave about Jen in this moment?

Jen Porter (58:55)
Yeah,

being brave, there's two two things one is

finishing the book, finishing the ⁓ I am three quarters of the way there in drafting it and then need the funding to be able to publish this and put it out into the world in the way that I would love to. And then the podcast. So I'm doing something new next month that is gonna be coaching.

I'm, you know, we've talked about, I don't have a name for it yet. We've talked about hot seat coaching is probably what it is, but I don't love the name hot seat because it, applies pressure and anxiety. And I don't want that to be it, but doing coaching live on the podcast episodes so that one, the Lioness can get coached.

and get breakthrough in a way that's gonna help her on her mission, but also for others to witness that and to be able to glean some things for themselves. And so I guess both of those things feel vulnerable because it's putting my craft out there into the world. All the coaching that I do is in these private spaces, right? It's a lot of one-on-one, some group coaching. And so it's these private containers that are so sacred and

Michelle Mullins (1:00:16)
Right?

Jen Porter (1:00:30)
holy and these amazing things happen. No one's witnessing that. And so to make it more accessible for people to read my writing, to read my heart, to hear my heart.

and to see me do what I do in coaching. All of that feels like, that's gonna take some bravery.

Michelle Mullins (1:00:59)
Exactly. Yes. And some community and some vulnerability and some, ⁓ yes, you know, like, okay, this is my yes. And this is important. And that connection to why this really matters. And then you zoom in on the lionesses that are coming. And I can't thank you enough today for allowing me to shine the light on you a little bit today, because I think it will just help the listeners even.

Jen Porter (1:01:03)
One way.

Michelle Mullins (1:01:26)
deeper here, the purpose, the mission that you're moving on and pray for you, support you to like a lot of the people that you don't hear from are listening and we're coming alongside you. So it's just such a gift for you to walk out what you're inviting other people to do. I think that's powerful and purposeful and I am appreciative. So thank you.

Jen Porter (1:01:50)
⁓

Thanks, Michelle.

⁓ thank you. I mean, for you to have offered to do this and plant the seed of, hey, let's tell your story. It was, that's such an example of community. I never would have thought of it myself. I needed you to suggest it and then to come in here with me, right? It's so important when we have people with us in our journey. And for you,

Michelle Mullins (1:02:08)
Yeah

Jen Porter (1:02:22)
you know, and Mindy often will speak life. It like you'll remind me why I'm doing what I'm doing on the days where it doesn't feel awesome, you know, or we forget, we forget what we're doing. So thank you for being part of this and for being a Lioness with me. So I hope that you all have enjoyed this. It's been a podcast takeover and yeah.

If you want to check out more of Michelle Mullen's work, can find her. I'll put the website in the show notes. And until the next episode, the Lioness in me sees the Lioness in you.