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A faith-forward podcast for people who love Jesus but also love being honest about how weird and wonderful life can be. Hosts Kerrye and Jill tell stories about the Bible, talk about their faith, and dig into what it looks like to follow God through the ordinary chaos of everyday, imperfect life. Real conversations. Real stories. No pretending to have it all together. Pull up a chair, turn the page, and let's go.
Hey.
Hey, Dewey.
What you doing?
Oh, I'm just chilling, you know,
thinking about what we should be
talking about in the next little bit.
What should we talk about?
Well, I was- With the Bible, of course.
Well, yeah, but I was thinking that y- I
mean, you know what time of year it is.
It's October.
It, it is October.
There's a bunch of scary
stuff out right now.
There, there is.
Some people celebrate the scary
things, and I don't like it.
Yeah, I mean, I don't
particularly enjoy it either.
Um, but, you know, there's
scary stuff in the Bible.
What?
Yeah.
Oh, I know, like lion's den
and- Well, yeah ⦠Jonah and
the fish and all that stuff.
There's, there's that, and then there's
also, like, there are stories of wicked
and, and terrible gross stuff too.
I wanna hear one.
You wanna hear the gross stuff?
Yeah, I wanna hear a gross thing.
Thought you just said you
didn't like scary stuff.
Or, or wicked or whatever.
Way- Okay.
Well- You know, 'tis the season, I guess.
Well, there- But I like
learning about the Bible.
I, I mean, it is in there.
Yeah.
Let's hear it.
So, so you just want to just dive in?
Let's dive in.
All right.
Well, I, I feel like this might be a good
idea for, like, the next couple of weeks.
Like, throughout October- Okay ⦠let's
focus on some, some scarier, some,
wait a minute, is that in the Bible?
But God's still part of it, right?
Of course.
Okay.
It's in the Bible.
So all right, first, first one that I
think we should do, Sodom and Gomorrah.
The what?
So Sodom and Gogo- Sodom and Gomorrah.
Sounds like names.
It it's the name of a place.
Oh.
So yeah.
So, um- Well, Sodom and Gomorrah
was full of really bad people.
Like- Like, how bad?
Very, very bad.
Wicked, wicked, wicked people.
You know, there's wicked,
wicked, wicked people today, too.
Yes, there is, and they should
take note of this story.
Okay.
Because I, I'm ready,
like- I'm not wicked.
I'm not wicked either, so I am ready
to watch God do what He did here.
All right, let's- I'm, I'm all for it.
Let's hear it.
Um, okay.
Where is it found?
It's in Genesis chapter 18.
Oh, Genesis is one of my favorite books.
Then how do you not know this?
They got lots of stories.
I mean, you know.
I meanâ¦
I mainly just- Honestly, you're
a kid, so maybe your parents
have skipped over this one.
'Cause it's scary?
Well, 'cause it's wicked.
Oh, okay.
There's a lot of wickedness.
All right.
Um, so we start in verse 20.
So Genesis chapter 18, verse 20, and
I'm reading out of the Easy English.
Good.
I need the easy.
Okay.
So it says, "So the Lord said to
Abraham, 'I have heard how wicked
the people in Sodom and Gomorrah are.
Everybody says that their
sins are very bad.'"
Very bad like what?
What'd they do?
Um, they- Killing people?
Yes.
They were hurting each other.
They were hurting themselves.
They were doing all kinds of gross things.
They, they were doing things that
kids have no business knowing about.
All right.
Noted.
Just bad, bad stuff.
Bad stuff.
Bad stuff.
All right.
Um, if you, if you are just really
dying to know specifics, feel free to
ask your parents about it, and your
parents can help you decide how much
they're comfortable with you knowing.
All right.
But I am not going to get into the
specifics of it- Okay ⦠'cause
that's a parent- Okay ⦠decision.
Okay, so it says, this
is still God talking.
Okay.
He says, "So I must go down
there to see if it's true.
I will see if those people are as
bad as everybody says they are.
If it is not true, I need to know that."
He already knew.
He was having a conversation,
but he already knew.
Yeah.
The other two men, 'cause Abraham
was saying goodbye to some
people who had, had visited.
The other two men then turned
away, and they went towards Sodom.
But Abraham stayed there
to talk with the Lord.
Then Abraham went near to the Lord, and
he asked, "Will you destroy the good
people in Sodom as well as the bad?"
Will you destroy the good
people as well as the bad?
He went near.
He did.
He did.
I don't know that he got
right up in God's face.
I wanna get right up in God's face.
I mean, we can do that.
I don't know if Abraham-
Okay ⦠did that.
Um, but so anyway, he says, "Will
you destroy the good people in
Sodom as well as the bad people?
There might be 50 people in
the city who live a good way."
50's not a lot.
50's not a lot in a whole city.
Nope.
It's not.
But he says, "Will you still destroy the
whole city or will you leave it there
because there are 50 good people in it?"
You know, 50 isn't a lot.
We have what?
26,000 in Russellville.
That's not counting Dardanelle and
Pottsville and all that It, and
interestingly, um, that's not counting
the college and all the college students,
'cause those are- 50's not a lot
temporary.
Mm-hmm.
50's not a lot.
50- When we get together with my
family, there's more than 50 Yeah, I
was just about to say, there's usually
more than 50 in children's church.
Yeah.
Yeah, so it's really not a lot.
Nope.
Okay.
Surely there's 50.
Well, we'll see.
He says, "Surely you would
not do anything like that."
I like sitting this close.
Dewey All right All right.
So surely you would not
do anything like that.
You would not punish good people in
the same way as- Yeah ⦠bad people.
You are the great judge
of everyone on the earth.
God loves people.
He does.
And so Abraham says, "Sh- you
will surely do what is right."
Yeah.
So the Lord replied, "If I see that
there are 50 good people in the city of
Sodom, I will not destroy that place."
Oh, good.
Because of those 50 people,
I will leave the city there.
That's like sometimes in children's
church there's a couple people talking-
Mm-hmm ⦠and sometimes we all
get punished 'cause those two kids.
That's true.
That's not really fair.
That's true.
Um, so then it says Abraham spoke again.
So he, Abraham's negotiating with God now.
He's like, "Oh, well, you
listened to me about the 50.
Let's, let's see what we can do here."
Abraham said, "I have been brave
enough to speak to the Lord.
I know that I am nothing more than dust
and ashes, but let me ask you this.
Will you do it if there are
45 good people in the city?"
I mean- "Will you destroy the
city because there are only
five fewer good people there?"
Surely God'll keep it if it's just 45.
The Lord replied, "If I see that
there are 45 good people in the
city, I will not destroy it."
Good.
So Abraham spoke to God again
and he said, "What will you do if
only 40 good people are there?"
It's like Abraham knew.
It is.
So he goes on, "What about 40?"
And God says, "Because of 40
good people, I'll leave it."
Abraham said, Abraham says, "Hey,
don't be mad, but I'm gonna ask again.
What if, what about if there's 30?"
You know, this is the point where my mom
would say, "You're treading on thin ice"-
Yeah ⦠if I kept on pushing stuff.
Yep.
Is that what God said?
But God, God did not say that.
God said, "I will not destroy the
city if I find 30 good people there."
So then Abraham says, "I've been brave
to speak to you, but what if e- what will
you do if only 20 good people are there?"
So- 20, surely there's
20 ⦠he keeps going, right?
And so he gets, he gets to 20 and he
keeps going and he gets down to 10.
10?
And the Lord says, "Because of 10 good
people, I will not destroy the city."
Well, surely he found 10.
The Lord had finished speaking with
Abraham, so he continued on his
journey, and Abraham returned home.
And then we go on to chapter 19.
All right.
It says, "The two angels
arrived at Sodom."
Those were the two that
were talking to Abraham.
I remember this part of this.
It wa- Right?
They came to Abraham and talked.
Yeah.
Okay.
"The two angels arrived at Sodom.
It was evening and Lot was
sitting near the city gate."
Lot?
Yeah, that, that's his name.
The parking lot?
No, his name was Lot.
It's spelled like parking lot
but- What kind of name is Lot?
Apparently it's a Middle Eastern name.
It's a Biblical name.
Who's Lot?
Lot lives in Sodom.
Lot and his family.
Who is he?
Was he a, was he a follower of God?
Yes.
What'd you say before that?
You said something about the family I
said Lot and his family lived in Sodom.
Oh.
Okay.
Okay.
So it was l- it was evening, and
Lot was sitting near the city gate.
When Lot saw the angels,
he got up to meet them.
Did he already know they were angels?
I don't think he knew they were angels
immediately, but I think he was just kind.
Oh.
Yeah, he was just a good guy.
Wait, is Lot, is this Abraham's nephew?
I think so.
Okay.
So he's related.
Yeah.
That's why Abraham was asking.
Yeah.
This is his family that lived there.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, and I mean, I imagine
not just his family, but,
like, he knew people in there.
And if God came to you and said, "I
think I'm gonna destroy Conway," I,
I mean, we, I don't have family in
Conway, but I'm gonna go, "What do
you mean you're gonna destroy Conway?
What if, what if there
are 10 good people?"
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna be like, "God, what?
I still care about the people of Conway,
even if I'm not personally invested."
Yeah.
Hang on
Sometimes puppets have to
do things that are private.
So go ahead.
Okay.
All right.
So Lot says, "My lords, please
come to stay in my house.
You can wash your feet
and stay the night there.
Then you can continue your-
Were their feet dirty?
Yeah, they wear sandals and the- Oh,
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah ⦠the roads
were dusty and stuff, so it was- Okay
it was basically like-
I mean, I wouldn't know.
That's true.
It w- basically be like, "Come
hang your coat up, and, you know,
stay a little while with us."
Okay.
Take a shower.
Yeah.
Take a bath, whatever.
Get refreshed.
Yeah.
Okay.
Um, the angels replied, "No, we will stay
the night here in this public place."
But Lot continued to ask them
to stay with him, so the angels
went with Lot to his house.
Again, this is a persistent family.
This is like a, "Hey, no,
no- Yeah ⦠I wanna do it."
No, come here.
You know what?
What?
He knew it was wicked, and he didn't
want these people staying out in public.
Um, he was just messing you.
That's what I think.
Um, maybe.
Yeah.
Maybe he didn't want them toâ¦
Maybe he was just trying
to be, like, a protector.
Protector.
Yeah, he was just trying
to keep them safe.
Anyway, it says, "The angels went with
Lot to his house, and Lot prepared a
big meal for them- Yum, yum ⦠with
some bread that he had baked- Get you
some fried chicken ⦠without yeast."
Fried chicken and flat biscuits.
I don't know about fried chicken,
but it says the angels ate the food.
Yeah.
So- I didn't know they
could eat ⦠angelsâ¦
And I didn't know either, but apparently
they were, they were good guests.
They were, they accepted the hospitality.
Okay.
After that, they were
preparing to go to bed.
Then all the men who lived
in Sodom came to Lot's house.
There were old men and young men who
came from every part of the city,
and they stood all around the house.
The men shouted to Lot, "Where are the
men who are staying with you tonight?"
What?
Bring them out to us.
We wanna do bad things with them.
I'm editing a little bit because I don't
know whether your parents want you to
know the- Okay ⦠specific details.
They wanted to hurt them.
Yeah, yeah.
Lot went outside to talk to the men.
This is kinda getting scary.
I told you.
I don't like it.
They, they circled the whole house.
Like, this is, this is a whole thing.
So Lot went outside to talk to them.
He shut the door of his house behind him.
He said, "No, my friends, please
do not do this evil thing.
See here, I have two daughters.
They, they have never done
any kinda anything with stuff.
Let me bring my daughters out, and you
can do evil things to my daughters,
but we're gonna protect these men."
What?
"They're visitors, and I
cannot let anyone hurt them."
Lot was kinda bad, too.
Lot was desperate, I think, maybe.
I don't like that.
Yeah.
The men from the city said,
"Don't try to stop us.
You live here as a s- as a
stranger here in our city.
You cannot tell us what to do," which
lets me know that Lot was not engaging
in all of the crazy, ridiculous things
that everybody else was engaged in.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
So, 'cause he said, "You, you live
as a stranger here," which means
he did not adopt their culture.
Okay.
Um, it says, "You cannot
tell us what to do.
Be careful, or we will do
even worse things to you."
They- This is getting really scary now.
Well, do you trust God?
I do.
Okay.
Well, then, let's keep reading.
Okay.
It says, "They pushed Lot a- and
tried to reach the door of his house.
They wanted to break the
door and go into the house.
The two visitors who were inside
the, the house opened the door.
They pulled Lot back into his house,
and they shut the door quickly.
Then they called-" 'Cause they were,
they were angels, so they were powerful.
Yeah, but I don't, I don't know
that Lot knew that they were angels.
He might not have known.
Because, I mean, if you knew that
they were angels, would you have been
like, "I need to protect these guys"?
No.
Exactly.
I'd be like, "I mean,
you can try it, y'all."
I would be like, "I need
to protect you guys.
You don't wanna mess with these
two- Yeah ⦠because they're,
they're way outside your league."
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Anyway, then they, the, the two angels,
caused all the men outside to become
blind, the young men of the city- What?
⦠as well as the old men.
As a result, they could not find the
door of the house, even though they- Wow
tried for some time.
Wow.
Like it says in there, they,
they tried for quite some time.
Wow.
So the two visitors asked Lot, "Do you
have any of your family here in the city?
Do you have any sons or daughters
or husbands for your daughters?"
And he did.
"If you have any family, you
must take them away from here.
We will soon destroy this city."
Everybody knows how bad the
people who live here are
I'd have been out ⦠everybody
knows how bad the people who live
here are, and as a result, the Lord
has sent us to destroy this place.
Yeah.
Get out now.
So Lot went out of his house, and he spoke
to the men who would marry his daughters.
He said to them, "Hurry.
Leave this city now because the
Lord has decided to destroy it."
Let's go then.
But the men did not believe Lot.
They didn't believe him.
They thought he was not being serious.
At dawn, yeah, at dawn, the two
angels told Lot he must leave quickly.
They said to him, "Hurry."
Get out now.
"Take your wife, take your
two daughters who are here.
If you do not go quickly, you will all
die when the Lord destroys the city."
But Lot did not move, so the angels- Why?
⦠took hold of Lot's hands.
Well, I'm, I- it does not
say why he did not move.
Um, it says, "The angels took hold
of Lot's hand and also the hands
of his wife and his two daughters.
The Lord was very kind to Lot
and his family, and the angels
led them away from the city."
It's like they didn't wanna go.
Yeah.
When they hitâ¦
Sometimes it's hard for people to leave-
Even, even an uncomfortable place
because that's, that's what you know.
That's what you're used to That's true
⦠and even though it's terrible- But if God
tells you to go, you go ⦠you gotta go.
You gotta be obedient.
That's, that's 100% sure.
So it says, um, "When they had
reached a place outside of the city,
one of the angels said, 'Now run.'
" Run.
" 'Your lives are in danger.'
" Yes, run.
Something bad's about to happen.
Yep.
"Your lives are in danger.
Do not look behind you.
Do not stop- How come?
⦠anywhere in this valley.
Run up into the mountains
or you will die."
Yeah.
I would not look back.
"But Lot said, 'No.
Please, my lords, I cannot do that.'
" Why?
" 'I am your humble servant and
you have been very kind to me.
You've saved my life.
But I cannot run away into the mountains.
If I try to do that, this punishment
will catch me before I reach
there, then I will surely die.
Look, see this-' " Oh, 'cause
he wasn't strong enough to
run, I think I guess, yeah
Well, maybe he was old.
He had daughters grown
enough to get married.
Yeah, yeah.
So anyway, this is why- Maybe he was fat.
I, I don't know.
I'm not, I'm not gonna- Hmm ⦠I'm
not gonna speculate on that
We can find out that later.
Yep.
Um, it says, " 'If I try to do that,
this punishment will catch me before
I reach there, then I will surely die.
Look.
See that town over there?
It is near and I can run to it
safely, and it is a small town,
so please let me run there.
You can see that it is only a small place.
If I go there- It was a flat place to
go ⦠if I go there, I will stay alive.'
And the angel said to Lot,
'I will not let youâ¦
I will let you do what you have asked.
I will not destroy that town.
But run there quickly.
I cannot do anything- Go, go,
go, go, go, go, go, go ⦠until
you arrive in the town.'
The name of the town became Zoar,"
like zo- like soar but with a Z,
Zoar Oh ⦠because it was small.
Oh.
"Lot reached Zoar at the time when
the sun was rising that morning.
Then the Lord poured sulfur with
fire down on Sodom and Gomorrah."
I bet that stunk.
I'm sure it did, 'cause have
you ever smelled sulfur?
Yes.
Have you ever been to,
like, sulfur springs?
Stinks.
It's awful.
Um, it says, "It fell
from the sky like rain.
In that way, God destroyed those
cities and everything in the valley.
He killed all the people who lived
in those cities, and he killed all
the plants that grew on the land.
But as they ran away, Lot's
wife looked back at the city."
Yeah.
The angel said, "Don't do that."
Yeah, it, uhâ¦
yeah, it was a, it was a bad idea.
Like
Lot's wife looked back at the
city, and when she did that, she
became a large piece of salt- What?
⦠like a pillar.
What?
Yeah.
What?
What?
Hang on a second.
Yeah.
I gotta get something.
It was right over here.
Is that what she looked like?
I, I don't know.
Th- it would be, I mean, I guess if
you're gonna be a pillar of salt,
this is a pretty pillar of salt to be.
Can you give me?
There you go.
It's good.
Yeah.
Like salt like you eat.
Salt like you eat.
The pillar of salt.
Like God said, "Don't look
back," and she was like, "I
just wanna take one tiny peek."
Yeah.
And then it was like, bad idea.
Yeah.
Lot probably turned around and
was like, "Are you coming, honey?"
And then was like,
"Well, this is awkward."
Well, I mean, if he turned around, then
he would've been a pillar of salt, too.
Yeah.
So you know he was just like, "Come on.
Come on."
And then- His daughters were
probably like, "Go get the
french fries and ketchup."
Oh,
my God, Dewey.
Imagine Lot trying to
explain this later to people.
It's like, "We got there,
but we forgot the condiment."
Oh, my gosh.
"We needed the salt."
We needed the salt.
"We needed some pepper, too."
Oh.
"She was being too salty."
She was.
You hear that expression?
Yeah, she was.
Maybe that's where we get the
expression, is from Lot's wife.
Yeah.
Like, maybe that's why we say
somebody's- That's bad ⦠salty.
It is bad.
Don't look back.
If God says don't, you just don't.
Yeah.
She had one job.
One job.
One job, don't look.
She had one job.
Get out, don't look back.
Wow.
Yeah.
That is really a scary story.
It is.
And then he, he straight up destroyed
both the cities with fire and brimstone.
All those people died?
All of them.
Which you know that's, what that means.
What?
That means God couldn't find
even 10 people in those cities.
Yeah, it was just Lot and his,
well- Lot, his wife, and his
daughters, apparently That's bad.
Mm-hmm.
Let's not be like them.
No.
Yeah.
Or rather, I mean, I guess, let's
be like Lot and his family- Yeah
'cause they were good even when
everyone else around them was bad.
But were they?
I mean, they definitely, they,
coming up in further stories, they
definitely had their problems.
Well, everybody does.
Exactly.
But- But in this one, at that
moment, they were, they were living
the way they were supposed to live.
Well, that was a scary one.
I don't know how we're
gonna top that next time.
Well, gonna have to come back and see.
I can't wait.
Let's do it.
Let's do it.
Now, now I really, really,
really want some french fries.
I think we could do french fries.
Can we go get some?
You know who has the best.
Who?
Michael Donald's.
Michael Donald's.
Michael Donald's.
Michael Donald's, okay.
Yeah, let's go.
All right.
And get some ketchup.
Well, I have to do it.
Bye.
Bye.