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You know that sinking feeling when you wake up with a hangover and think: “I’m never doing this again”? We’ve all been there. But what happens when you follow through? Sonia Kahlon and Kathleen Killen can tell you, because they did it! They went from sisters-in-law, to Sisters in Sobriety.
In this podcast, Sonia and Kathleen invite you into their world, as they navigate the ups and downs of sobriety, explore stories of personal growth and share their journey of wellness and recovery.
Get ready for some real, honest conversations about sobriety, addiction, and everything in between. Episodes will cover topics such as: reaching emotional sobriety, how to make the decision to get sober, adopting a more mindful lifestyle, socializing without alcohol, and much more.
Whether you’re sober-curious, seeking inspiration and self-care through sobriety, or embracing the alcohol-free lifestyle already… Tune in for a weekly dose of vulnerability, mutual support and much needed comic relief. Together, let’s celebrate the transformative power of sisterhood in substance recovery!
Kathleen Killen is a registered psychotherapist (qualifying) and certified coach based in Ontario, Canada. Her practice is centered on relational therapy and she specializes in couples and working with individuals who are navigating their personal relationships.
Having been through many life transitions herself, Kathleen has made it her mission to help others find the support and communication they need in their closest relationships. To find out more about Kathleen’s work, check out her website.
Sonia Kahlon is a recovery coach and former addict. She grappled with high-functioning alcohol use disorder throughout her life, before getting sober in 2016.
Over the last five years, she has appeared on successful sobriety platforms, such as the Story Exchange, the Sobriety Diaries podcast and the Sober Curator, to tell her story of empowerment and addiction recovery, discuss health and midlife sobriety, and share how she is thriving without alcohol.
Your sobriety success story starts today, with Kathleen and Sonia. Just press play!
[00:00:00] Sonia: [00:01:00] Hi, we're Kathleen and Sonia and you're listening to Sisters in Sobriety. Thank you so much for being here today. And today we are continuing our discussion from last week about mindfulness.
[00:01:13] Sonia: All right, so I think we are all starting to understand the importance, and the benefits of mindfulness in recovery, but I think the actual practice of mindfulness is where most of us struggle. So it would be great, Kathleen, if you could guide us through a meditation.
[00:01:30] Kathleen: I will definitely do that. So I, I do want to say that if you are driving right now, do not do this. you can listen to it and you can understand what I'm doing, but if you're, if you're operating heavy machinery, then please don't do this.
[00:01:46] Sonia: but we will put a highlight into this so you can come back to it and listen to it as a standalone. Okay, so come into a comfortable seated position or you can be lying down. And [00:02:00] I want you just to take a moment to get even more comfortable, meaning if you need to just adjust yourself to be 10 percent more comfortable in your position, do that now.
[00:02:12] Kathleen: If you are seated, it can be helpful to have your feet flat on the ground, but you don't need to just be comfortable. Let's take a deep inhale together through the nose and an even longer exhale through the mouth. And we're going to do today a sober meditation and sober stands for stop, observe, breathe, expand, and respond.
[00:02:43] Kathleen: And this practice will guide you through a process to help you stay grounded and make mindful choices, especially in challenging moments. Let's begin taking another deep breath through your nose.[00:03:00]
[00:03:02] Kathleen: First, take a moment to stop whatever you're doing or thinking about, just pause for a moment and take a deep breath in and as you exhale, let go of any tension in your body. Gently bring your attention to this present moment.
[00:03:25] Kathleen: We're going to now observe. What's happening within and around you start by noticing your thoughts. How are you feeling right now? Just observe without trying to change anything. There's no judgment here. Tune into your body. Notice any physical sensations. Are there areas of tension or discomfort? And simply observe without reacting.
[00:03:56] Kathleen: You [00:04:00] can listen to your surroundings. What sounds do you hear? What is the closest sound to you and what is the furthest sound? Noticing
[00:04:19] Kathleen: how your body might be sitting or laying down on a surface. What is the physical sensation there? It might be texture of fabric. It might be pressure. Just noticing again.
[00:04:35] Kathleen: Now we're going to move to our breath, focusing on our breath, taking a deep breath in through your nose and slowly exhale through your mouth, breathe in again, and this time feel the cool air entering your nostrils, exhale slowly. I noticed the warm air leaving your [00:05:00] body. Just continue breathing deeply and slowly, allowing each breath to bring you into a state of calm.
[00:05:14] Kathleen: Let's now expand our awareness, feeling the ground beneath you and the space around you. Imagine that each breath, you're creating more space within yourself. Expand your awareness to include the thoughts, emotions, and sensations you observed earlier. Allow everything to just be as it is, creating space for it all without judgment or reaction.
[00:05:50] Kathleen: Now that we've created space, let's respond mindfully. Thank you. If you're facing a specific [00:06:00] situation or challenge, think about how you want to respond with the awareness you've cultivated. Choose a response that aligns with your values and supports your well being. And if you're not facing any specific challenges, just set an intention for the rest of your day, like being kind to yourself or others.
[00:06:26] Kathleen: Just take a moment to either respond mindfully or take a moment to set this intention.
[00:06:38] Kathleen: Let's take another deep inhale together through the nose and out through the mouth. When you're ready, you can gently open your eyes if they've been closed. Come back into the space you're in now. Take And you can remember you can use this sober technique, [00:07:00] the sober meditation whenever you need to pause, ground yourself or make mindful choices.
[00:07:08] Kathleen: How was that for you, Sonia?
[00:07:10] Sonia: that was amazing. I think that what I've been missing is the guided part of the meditation. And when there's. too much silence, that's when I lose it. And so having you constantly guide it was actually really helpful. it wasn't distracting. It's actually more distracting to me if it's totally silent.
[00:07:36] Kathleen: Yeah, yeah. Guided meditations are really, really helpful. I do a lot of guided meditations because I too, even though I've been meditating for years and years and years, sometimes I can't sit for 20 minutes in silence and I just need someone's voice to anchor myself to. Mm
[00:07:53] Sonia: Yeah, I think that was so helpful. I was doing mantra meditations
[00:07:58] Sonia: and was running [00:08:00] into the same problem Because it was up to me to repeat the mantra. I would just lose the thread. But so I will say this meditation actually changed my idea of mindfulness, but how do you address skepticism or misconceptions about mindfulness?
[00:08:21] Kathleen: I think the biggest misconception I hear, is that you need to empty your mind or meditation is like finding enlightenment. I think the emptying the mind thing is very, very common and It's a practice. So my mind wanders all the time in meditation, but the practice is bringing it back to the present moment.
[00:08:46] Kathleen: and it's just, mental fitness, right? It's like fitness for the mind. you're building that muscle of just coming continually back to the present moment. but skeptics, they could be skeptics. There's there's that's, that's totally fine. They can be skeptics.
[00:08:59] Kathleen: there's [00:09:00] tons of scientific research to. Support the benefits of mindfulness and meditation. and I think it's also just one tool among many that can support recovery. So you got to do what's right for you.
[00:09:15] Sonia: can mindfulness be practiced in a group setting for those in recovery? We do a lot of group support meetings, and is that something that's reasonable to think about?
[00:09:25] Sonia: Sure, definitely.
[00:09:26] Kathleen: Yes, I actually love, love, love meditating in a group setting. I find it so powerful. and so yes, it can, it can really be used in recovery in a group setting. Group mindfulness sessions can foster a sense of community and shared experience, and they can also, provide a supportive environment. I personally find I go deeper into my meditations when I'm in a group.
[00:09:52] Kathleen: I, I get, I don't know what it is, if it's the energy of the group and I'm able to just like go deeper into my [00:10:00] meditations, but I love, meditating in a group. and I think You can learn from other people's experiences. So hopefully after a meditation session in a group, whoever's facilitating that will say, you know, were there any observations and someone says, well, I wanted to fidget or I wanted to itch my nose every five seconds and you can see that people do not just sit and then empty their minds, right?
[00:10:23] Kathleen: Like it is a practice.
[00:10:25] Sonia: So what are some challenges people face when starting mindfulness practices in sobriety? Okay.
[00:10:32] Kathleen: I think the thought that it's going to be too hard or I can't empty my thoughts, like those are common. Just feeling like I can't do that. but common challenges when first practicing are restlessness and patience, frustration. Oh my gosh. I have been like, I have sat in meditation before and just wanted to scream my head off because I was so frustrated.
[00:10:53] Kathleen: So I think that, People might find it hard to focus or feel uncomfortable with their thoughts or [00:11:00] emotions initially, and it's really important just to know that this is normal. that is part of the practice.
[00:11:05] Kathleen: It takes time and patience to develop a mindfulness practice, and I really think it's helpful to start small. So, like, five minutes.
[00:11:13] Sonia: Yeah, I, I would like to also say that the beginning of sobriety is I was crawling out of my skin. And
[00:11:21] Sonia: so I just want to normalize that for everyone out there that, yeah, maybe even start with one or two minutes
[00:11:29] Kathleen: Thirty seconds.
[00:11:30] Sonia: Yeah, I think it's really important to acknowledge that it's a really tough time and like you have a lot of anxiety and discomfort and irritability, but set small goals for
[00:11:43] Kathleen: Mm hmm.
[00:11:44] Sonia: What mindfulness techniques are particularly useful in maintaining sobriety?
[00:11:50] Kathleen: There is, well, the sober technique that I just ran through is, is a really good one. also, techniques like urge surfing. So that's what we talked about when we [00:12:00] think of the cravings like waves. So if you think of mindfulness like your surfboard, it helps you be able to surf the wave. So watching them rise and fall and not.
[00:12:10] Kathleen: Acting on them. And then the sober breathing space is really great. So stop, observe, breathe, expand and respond can really help people pause and respond mindfully to situation. So both of those techniques can really help people manage their impulses and stay centered. I also think grounding techniques are really good.
[00:12:29] Kathleen: So, Okay, feeling your going through all of your senses. So what are you seeing? What are you hearing? What are you smelling? How does your physical body feel? What can you taste in your mouth? So just grounding again into the present moment.
[00:12:45] Sonia: I think that's really important to remember. I forget that, like check in with your
[00:12:49] Kathleen: Mm hmm
[00:12:49] Sonia: to ground yourself. I think that's something that's really easy for us to do even, it takes like 30 seconds. So speaking of time, how much time [00:13:00] should we be dedicating to mindfulness practices each day, especially for beginners?
[00:13:05] Kathleen: You don't have to be sitting in meditation to have a mindfulness practice if you just take a few seconds You Many times throughout the day to be like, I will take a sip of my tea and I will feel the water in my mouth or the tea in my mouth and I will notice the temperature and the smell that will take you 30 seconds.
[00:13:26] Kathleen: That is mindfulness. if you're starting, uh, like 2 minutes. Five minutes. There's so many guided meditations out there that, are five minutes of work your way up to 10. I do think it's really amazing to have a consistent meditation practice every day. I think there are benefits to the routine of it.
[00:13:50] Kathleen: it can set your day up really well in the morning. That being said, if that's not for you, then just practice mindful moments throughout the day. The [00:14:00] key is really consistency versus the duration.
[00:14:03] Sonia: This is actually something I struggle with. When I'm in, an acute kind of crisis or acute
[00:14:11] Kathleen: hmm.
[00:14:11] Sonia: that's when the concept of mindfulness just goes out the door. So, what are the best practices for mindfulness when you're feeling overwhelmed or in a crisis?
[00:14:22] Kathleen: We'll start with the breath. So I think if you just focus on your breath, so, okay, if you're in a crisis or you're like you feel like I'm spiraling here, just focus on your breath. So slow, deep breathing can help calm the nervous system and like the grounding exercises, like we talked about.
[00:14:39] Kathleen: So noticing the sensation on your feet, on the ground, or even naming five things that you can see can bring the focus back to the present moment. And then also We need to do these practices with compassion, right? we should not be having self judgment in this. it's okay to seek additional support if you need it in these moments, but really trying to see yourself with [00:15:00] compassion and say, I'm having a hard moment right now.
[00:15:03] Kathleen: I'm having, things are hard for me right now. Things are challenging for me and focusing on your breath. I'm just going to take one deep breath through my nose and a long exhale through my mouth and just ground yourself down little by little.
[00:15:18] Sonia: So, what specific mindfulness practices help accepting that present moment without, Judgment. And I think a lot of us have that judgment of our feelings.
[00:15:30] Kathleen: Well, we talked about it earlier on in this, in the, in the episode, but loving kindness meditation is practicing Loving kindness to yourself and then also directing that outwards. But usually it starts within ourselves and that is sending ourselves goodwill and kindness to ourselves and then out to others.
[00:15:53] Kathleen: And it really can foster a sense of acceptance. and then also just even the practice of mindful [00:16:00] observation, noticing things in the present moment without trying to change or judge them, like that is the big difference is that. We don't need to change necessarily what is in this present moment. We're just going to be with it.
[00:16:14] Kathleen: And I think that when we can show ourselves compassion and say, I'm here in the present moment. I'm not going to judge. I think that when we notice small things in the present moment without trying to change or judge them, we can really deepen our self compassion and we can really come to the present moment.
[00:16:34] Sonia: So, how can mindfulness be incorporated into routine activities? I've started to notice that I mindfully walk my dogs.
[00:16:46] Kathleen: Mmm. Mm
[00:16:48] Sonia: partly because they have stopped really walking and they just walk in circles. And so I just am able to stand there, walk really slowly and just be like super mindful I look up at the sky and I look down [00:17:00] at the ground and I look, I do some people watching.
[00:17:02] Sonia: And so I've noticed that I've, I've been mindfully dog walking.
[00:17:07] Kathleen: Yeah, I would say take that even further. Like, with each step you take, notice your foot on the ground and how it moves forward. And what is your feeling of the earth beneath you? Like, take it into that physical level, too. But that's a great, you can absolutely integrate mindfulness into your routine activities.
[00:17:26] Kathleen: So I often suggest when people are trying to incorporate mindfulness into their daily activities and they want to have consistency, well, what are the things that you do consistently? Hopefully you're brushing your teeth consistently. So how would you brush your teeth mindfully? would you You pick up the toothbrush, you feel it in your hands, you put water on the toothbrush, toothpaste, smell the toothpaste, look at it, put it in your mouth, just be mindful.
[00:17:55] Kathleen: I think eating is so great at being mindful, like, there's [00:18:00] so many, the colors of what you're eating, the smells, the taste, the texture, and walking is a great, there's There are lots of walking meditations, and I think walking is a a great thing to do as well when you're not think of many times we walk from point A to point B, and we're just rushing and we don't even came and remember what you saw in between point A and point B.
[00:18:21] Kathleen: So what if you were able to take a few minutes and really mindfully take that walk, take it in in the present moment.
[00:18:29] Sonia: Yeah, that does sound. like it would really help. I think the other thing I'm sure people are wondering that are listening, how quickly can someone in recovery start to see the benefits of incorporating mindfulness practices into their routine?
[00:18:45] Kathleen: So this really varies from person to person. I have seen with clients. their mood and stress levels improve from a few days to a few weeks of regular practice.the research says that [00:19:00] I've read that about six weeks of consistent practice, you really, really, really see a significant difference.
[00:19:07] Kathleen: so over time, the benefits can be more pronounced as the practice becomes more integrated. And I think over time as well, like when it's integrated into your life and it becomes a part of your life, Things just change. Like I, um, less reactive than I used to be. I'm not saying I'm not reactive all the time, but I, I am much less reactive than I used to be.
[00:19:28] Kathleen: And that's definitely due to my mindfulness practices because I'm very aware of what's happening, in my body and my mind with my emotions. And I think that, you know, it takes some time to cultivate that, but it's definitely possible. And I think, yeah, people can see results within a few days
[00:19:45] Sonia: wow. Okay. And I love that you gave us that meditation, but what are some other resources or tools you recommend for someone who's interested in exploring mindfulness as part of their recovery?
[00:19:57] Kathleen: there are a lot of great books and apps and [00:20:00] online courses to explore mindfulness. A couple of books that I would recommend, The Mindful Path to Addiction Recovery by Lawrence Peltz is great. I am a huge, huge, huge fan of Tara Brock, as you know, Zonya, and her book Radical Acceptance is amazing.
[00:20:16] Kathleen: I also recommend this app called the Healthy Minds app, and it's free. So there's a lot of apps out there like Headspace and Calm, but, and Insight Timer, but they are not all free. but the Healthy Minds app is by the Center for Healthy Minds at the University of Wisconsin Madison, and it was created by a research team there.
[00:20:36] Kathleen: they have great guided meditations that sort of bring you through, a series or a program, and I definitely recommend that to my clients. It's a really good one.
[00:20:47] Sonia: Okay. You told me about that one and I, I think I'm going to start using that because I really need. I need some guidance.
[00:20:56] Kathleen: Yeah, for sure.
[00:20:57] Sonia: so what future trends do you [00:21:00] see in the practice of mindfulness in everyday life?
[00:21:03] Kathleen: Well, I'm going to say my future trends are going to be more on the optimistic side because I am very optimistic that mindfulness will become even more integrated into our everyday life, both personally and in professional settings. So I think technology is going to play a big role in this with apps and devices that make mindfulness practices more accessible and personalized.
[00:21:24] Kathleen: I think that already we're seeing. the ability to have a mindfulness practice much easier than in previous years. I think we might see more AI driven tools that offer customized mindfulness, routines, like based on your stress or stress level or what's happening in your life. I also think there's going to be mindfulness that will be integrated more into workplaces and schools.
[00:21:48] Kathleen: And I'm hoping that there will be an emphasis on mindful consumption. So what people use, people using mindfulness to make more conscious choices about what they [00:22:00] buy and what they eat.but I think, for myself and my practice, I'm integrating mindfulness more and more, especially into relationships and to, how couples relate to each other, where I'mhaving my couples, what I see, do a baseline.
[00:22:14] Kathleen: Mindfulness training with me. I think that the future of mindfulness is bright and I think as more and more people recognize its benefits, it's only gonna get stronger. Sonia, I talked a lot in this episode. What resonated with you the most? Mm-Hmm?
[00:22:33] Sonia: So much, right? It's all pretty new to me. But I think the idea of having many moments of mindfulness,that, is what resonated with me the most and the thing that I'm going to most take from this episode, which is, I think I'm so used to, like, attacking things like a problem, and so it's like, let's do this, mindfulness.
[00:22:54] Sonia: Let's do it. Sit down. Let's get the books out. Let's get the app, and let's do this. But I think [00:23:00] that, I can find moments of it during the day. And so I really want to start integrating that into my life. I w you know, I was on the subway yesterday and I could have, taken a moment with the sound of the subway, I could have taken a mindfulness moment.
[00:23:17] Sonia: And I think I'm going to start really looking for those moments a little bit more.
[00:23:23] Kathleen: that's amazing. I think that's, I think that's so great that that resonated with you. Um. And it's so important, those mindful moments themselves, like you don't have to have this crazy 20 minutes sitting in cross legged position, meditation practice to be mindful, but you can just live your life and then have many moments throughout the day of present moment awareness, and that alone can be transformative.
[00:23:49] Sonia: Yeah, I mean, shout out to my brother and his, uh, his ankle calluses. But, it's not, I don't think that I, that will ever be me.
[00:23:59] Kathleen: [00:24:00]
[00:23:59] Kathleen: Thank you for listening to sisters in sobriety and we'll see you next week.