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🎙 Bringing wine stories, tips, and expert interviews to everyday wine lovers. 🍷
00:00
Matthew
Welcome to the Wine Centric show presented by Inventory making. Your cellar management needs simple and efficient. Today we go out to the beautiful Wachow. As always, I have a titan and a titaness with me. This gentleman is the wunderkind of the Wachow and his daughter Rudi and Teresa Pichler.
00:26
Rudi
Welcome, welcome.
00:28
Matthew
Yes, Rudi and Teresa. I want to get right into it. Who is at the helm of the winery right now? Now, I know Rudi, you are the caretaker, but who makes the final decision on when to pick, when the harvest becomes at this point in the winery succession plan?
00:49
Rudi
This is a question very interesting, because I am the old man, you know. But when I took over the In 1997, it was my goal to make a very good winery out of the old thing. I got at this time and I tried because it was a very small winery and I tried to get enough money that my three children could study. But I didn't tell them anyone should come back. But then I think I did it the right way. And two of my three children came back. And now Teresa is here for export. We are exporting to 25 countries now. And office marketing. That's Teresa's job. And Rudi Jr. Rudi the fourth is doing now team manager, vineyard manager and winemaker. But I see my and our job more than wine caretaker. Because the vineyard is the most important thing.
02:07
Rudi
And not making the wine in the cellar, that's it. So if we have to make decisions. My wife is a teacher. She is not in the company. All three of us are sitting on a table and talking about it. After discussion, we make our decisions.
02:28
Matthew
So it's a combination, is what you're saying, of between you, Teresa and Rudi Jr.
02:35
Teresa
Yes, it is.
02:36
Rudi
Yes. We are very democratic.
02:39
Matthew
Okay. It seems like there's another story behind there. I mean, like Teresa, do you. Would you concur with all of your father's. How he described it there?
02:50
Teresa
Yes, I would totally agree, honestly.
02:53
Matthew
Okay, that's perfect.
02:55
Teresa
It's really like this.
02:56
Matthew
I want to ask a very basic question. Austria has a wonderful history, but in the grand scheme of things, it's somewhat of a small country in Europe. Right. And obviously you're surrounded by other famous regions. And even we know German wine for Riesling. Right. And the Mosel is known. We have obviously Burgundy and Pinot Noir and France and Italy and Tuscany and all this. But in the last, I guess 20 years, especially in the United States, Gruner Vettliner has become somewhat known still. Maybe not like it's not Chardonnay. And it's not Pinot Grigio. Right. So in your words, can you tell me, first of all, for somebody who's never had Gruner Vettliner from the Wachow, what should they expect? What's textbook? And then why do you think your region has become somewhat famous over the last 20 years?
03:53
Rudi
I started exportation to the United States in 1996 because of my very best friend at this time, Alois Grasse. Sweet wine, you know, and he opened the market and we are since 1997 on the US market. And Kalinhovitlina is now all over the world compared with wines from Burgundy, our Grand Cru. It's not allowed to tell this Grand Cru, but Colmet is often compared to a Meso and Burgundy. And I had a very interesting tasting with Clive Coates. I don't know if you know him. Yes.
04:44
Matthew
Master of Wine, celebrated author.
04:47
Rudi
Yeah. Coates of Burgundy. So I had some experiments in the 90s with Kroener, Vetlina and Parik. Then I had a tasting with Clive Coates. And Clive Coates told me, and I believe always in words of very intelligent people, much more older than me at this time. And he told me, r. You do not need peripheral, you do not need wood. The rocks of your vineyards are better than wood. What we are doing is we make maceration, feederspiel is distemped and all the Smarakt quality vines. You know, Smarakt is a quality category of Vajal.
05:44
Matthew
Yeah.
05:44
Rudi
Of Wienerhau, which was established 1983 to protect. It's not a marketing association, it's an association to protect our region. And it was established 1983 because at this time it was possible by law to purchase grapes outside. And if you bottle it in Wajau, then when it left Wahau, it was Wajau wine. And this would be very bad for us because we have high productions, costs of productions. And so we always have very foreseeing people here. So we created this association to protect our region three quality credit Stern Veda for the very light ones, Federspil for the medium bodied ones, and Smarakt for the top wines.
06:50
Matthew
And just to pause on that for a second, Rudi for the listeners that dictates the amount of alcohol that is allowed to be in the finished wine. And what else does it kind of signify when somebody who's buying a bottle of Grunewald from the Wachau can see, oh, if this is, it's going to be lighter to medium body to full body in a Very basic way. Would you say that's accurate?
07:13
Rudi
This is a very intelligent question. Because now it's after so many years. At the beginning, it was very hard to reach the high physiological ripeness to achieve a smart line. Now, with the climate change, it's much more easier. So it's still good the classification, but because all over the world, people know now, if you have Steinfeeder, Feder, Spielsmark, it's 100% Wachau.
07:51
Matthew
Yes.
07:52
Rudi
So it's more than DAC, which is now regulated by the government. To me it's more a DAC geek, guaranteed it since 1983. And Wahao is like Barolo, about 1280 hectares.
08:14
Matthew
Yeah.
08:15
Rudi
And it's very tracious, but we have to take care that not people from outside are ruining our work. That was the idea of viney Valhalla almost 40, 50 years ago.
08:32
Matthew
43 Years ago.
08:33
Rudi
Yeah, 43, yeah. And we are doing since very long time. We are focusing on the single vineyards on the sides. When I came back home, I studied economics. Did not finish after a visit in Napa Valley, where I worked at the winery. And this is answering two questions you asked me. We are so small in the big Napa Valley. I lost the fear of being too small.
09:09
Matthew
The fear of being too small, because.
09:13
Rudi
It was the idea. It's not the quantity, it's only the quality.
09:18
Matthew
Understood?
09:18
Rudi
And then when I came back home, then I started because my father it was a very small winery, 2.7 hectares, I suppose. And he did not invest anything for many years, because he saw nobody of his three children coming back home. And my idea was at this time to renew vineyards, but not the vines, only the systems, because I already got it. At this time, you cannot buy time, right? The vineyards taking out all the technical systems, but that the old vines and the people in our small village talked about me studied die, which is not really true, is coming back home and got crazy. Why doesn't he use a caterpillar planting new. But this is now really a big deal, because we have an average age for 50 years.
10:30
Rudi
And in this climate change, it's getting not only hotter, it's getting rainy, it's getting more rainy, it's getting more dry. The old vines, which have survived 50, 60, 80 years, can go very well this situation. And that's because I think the most important thing is the vines in the vineyards and that not making wine in the cellar.
11:05
Matthew
We couldn't agree more. And back to Napa Valley. A previous episode. We talked very in length about the positives of old vines with Kathy Corzin, who's a Napa Valley winemaker, who you might have run into back in 1989 when you were in the Napa Valley, and not. And her being steadfast on not replanting some of those old Cabernet vines because exactly of the things you've mentioned, that they know how to survive these extreme heats because of years and years of practice and experience. So I want to understand something, because you're in the village of Wozendorf, and your family has been making wine there arguably since the 18th century. And you say that your dad wasn't really expanding the winery because he wasn't sure any of his children would come back. So a couple of questions there.
11:57
Matthew
At the time, when you were a child or you were in the Napa Valley, was the family winery, was it the main source of income for the family, or were there other outside sources at that point?
12:09
Rudi
No, I think at this time, my family survived because my mother was a teacher.
12:15
Matthew
I see. Okay. So your mother was a teacher, and the winery was just there. But then when you came back from the Napa Valley, you decided, okay, and you knew economics, so maybe you had a business plan in hand, but you decided this is going to be our family business.
12:31
Rudi
I have many friends who are big numbers in management all over the world. But I had another plan. After being in Napa Valley at this time Opus 1 was built, I had a vision. I can do my way only to have quality and not seeing quantity. And that I think I was taught in Napa Valley, too.
13:04
Matthew
So you're saying that you had the vision for the quality over the quantity, which that's a passion project. But I'm just seeing from the very simple economics of you're having a family and you have this winery and you want to expand it, make more wine. From what I'm understanding, and Teresa, please feel free to weigh in. I'm just trying to understand the story because it seems like the winery, Pichler Winery, at this point was not the main revenue generator for you. I'm just trying to get my timeline, because in 1983, you have the Vinaya Waca, which is going to ensure quality of the VA. But then was it in your mind when you came back from the Napa Valley to say, this is not only going to be my passion, but it's going to be our business.
13:50
Rudi
Both.
13:51
Matthew
Both. Okay, There we go.
13:54
Rudi
But thank you for the question, because I think what is a very important point of life? I'm now 62 years old. And many of her friends made much money, very much money. I did not make much money, but I had enough money to guarantee a good education to my kids. And I am the one who saw my children growing up. And this is, again, Tyne, you cannot buy.
14:37
Matthew
That's right. So it was. You made it not only a passion, but a family business, which I think also speaks to your wines and why your wines are so revered, because they have a sense of place and personality. Let's talk about the wines. We talked about Gruner Vettliner and what that a Gruner Vettliner, what the end drinker should experience when they taste Gruner Vetliner End. I know this sounds simple, but how would you describe drinking a Grunewald liner to somebody who's never even heard of the varietal?
15:08
Teresa
Yeah, when you drink Gruner, I would say it depends where it comes from. When it's in Austria, it's also the same, because when it's grown in the Wachau Valley, also then depends on the winery. So it's not really much about the variety of itself here. When we talk about Gruner and I studied international wine business, and when you talk about Gruner Vetlena, then everybody is saying, yeah, it should be like, tasting.
15:39
Matthew
Like, pepper, white pepper, some green apple, those things.
15:45
Teresa
Yeah, green apple, yes, all these things. But when you come into Bajau, it's really depending, because when you have very old wines like we have, it doesn't really depend on the variety. And also, then we come to aging, and our wines can age very well. Not only for Riesling, also for Grunovetlina. And after some years, and I don't say about five years, but really 10 to 15, 20 years, then you cannot really say if it's Gruno Betline or Riesling. You just can say it is this single vineyard or it is this single vineyard. Because of the old wines and the great rooting system of the wines, you can only taste the character of the soil and the terroir, and that's very important for us. For the Vachauvele, I would say, okay,.
16:43
Matthew
Let me bring this full circle. Then. When you came back to take over the winery and how many of those new hectares that you took on, I.
16:52
Rudi
Just told Teresa here to show you a picture. I mostly, and mainly purchased old vines, old vineyards, which nobody wanted to have. Teresa is now showing you a vineyard which my grandmother was telling me, this is Colonel Vtlena Achleiten.
17:18
Matthew
This is Achleiten. Okay.
17:19
Rudi
And my grandmother told Me, Rudi, if you have ever the money and the possibility to purchase this vineyard, do it, okay? Because I know the man who worked this vineyard. He planted the. The vines by himself. So we have here old vines of Corona Vedrina, which are like Arcanoa, you know, we have Velina like this, and we have this. It looked like this. I planted only some very few new vines, but we renewed the vineyard, you know. And at this time, it was very. Not expensive to find the right words, because nobody wanted to have it because.
18:19
Teresa
The workload was so high. And that's how my dad expanded the winery. I see he took over 2.7 hectares, and then he expanded after some time to about 12.5 hectares. And that was not really replanting or planting new vineyards. It was buying very old vineyards that nobody wanted to have because the workload was so high.
18:48
Matthew
So the workload was so high because the vineyards were somewhat abandoned and not really taken care of. And you had to replant or also. It's hard. It seems like it would be really hard to harvest those vineyards because they're steep slopes. Correct.
19:02
Rudi
To work all over the year, not.
19:05
Teresa
Only harvesting, you have to know that we have to work the most vineyard we have. We have to work by our own, not with machines, but with our hands. It's all worked by hand. Not only the harvest is worked, is done by hand. It's all over the year.
19:23
Rudi
The best places are the harvest to work. We need about nine people for 15 hectares. In other regions, you need one man for the tractor and some workers, you know.
19:36
Matthew
Yes.
19:37
Rudi
But always where the work is the hardest. The vine is the best.
19:44
Teresa
I see the best vineyards from the soil. The best vineyards are the hardest to work.
19:50
Matthew
Best vineyards are the hardest to work. Let's put that on a T shirt together. Okay? So one of my favorite things in doing this, the wine Centric show, is to find the special moments, the turning points in somebody's career. So this is great. Thank you for sharing this story, because it sounds like. So it was your mother that said, if you can buy Achlieton, you go buy it. And the fact that was your key to success, to expanding the winery, getting old vines and getting wonderful fruit to make ultimately great wine. I think that would be the turning point in the Rudi Pichler wines. Would you agree with that?
20:28
Rudi
It was a grandmother.
20:30
Matthew
A grandmother, okay.
20:32
Rudi
The mother of my mother, and she was a very tough lady. And the turning point was, to me that I chose a difficult, more difficult way to coming back home. But seeing what is possible, as I told you before, losing in the great and big Napa Valley. The fear being too small, but seeing if you go on quality, then you have market. And Meanwhile, we have 25 countries, you know, and it's really a hard life, but it's a nice life, and it's a family life. We will not grow. We will have now our limit. Yeah, but we try to get better, and that's the philosophy. Maybe my children will make it in another way, but I made it like this. And I think this is a good rootstock for the future.
21:55
Matthew
Okay. This is a great segue. And I want to take a moment. I mentioned that we have somebody that helps us on this show that's a great partner. It's called inventory. And so they are a seller management system. Really. Rudi and Teresa, imagine you have an unbelievable cellar there in Rudi Pichler winery. And so they made an app on your phone that you can just go scan the bottles with your camera, and it will give you all the information. It will put it in your cellar virtually. It will then add up the amount, the dollars that it is. It will tell you how much your seller is worth. And then it will also be like, let's say maybe one night you've had too many glasses of wine and you can't find where that bottle is.
22:41
Matthew
You just press the app and it like, for example, my kids have a better collection than I do because I've put them in their birth years some 2019 here. And this is the Smarhad Terezin Riesling 2019. So you. I found. I used my inventory app to go find these wines in my cellar. So that's inventory. Please go download the app. It will make your whole seller management experience much easier and much more fun. Inventory. Okay, so it's interesting what you said there, Rudi, and the fact that you have Teresa, your daughter, next in line sitting right there. And maybe Rudi Jr. Would have his own answer to this. Obviously, we understand quality over quantity. But I understand what you're saying. You were worried maybe about the economics of it, like, oh, we don't make a lot of wine. How can I feed my family?
23:35
Matthew
How can we make the business work? But then your rationale in your head saying, if I just focus on the quality and make the best wines I can from these wonderful vines, everything else will take care of itself is. That's. That's what I'm understanding. When you hear that, Teresa, and you know, I just think about this. It's probably my American point of view, but I'm always thinking like, oh, we did something really great, let's do more of it, right? Let's make it bigger. And so like, when you hear your dad say that, do you think, oh, well, I don't know, we might find other vineyards or plant new vineyards, or I might find. I might expand the winery in a way when once I'm fully in charge,.
24:14
Teresa
Honestly spoken, it's not really easy to find any good vineyards in the Valhall.
24:21
Matthew
Okay.
24:22
Teresa
From the quantity we won't get more because the better sides are done. You can't buy anything.
24:33
Matthew
And yeah, I mean, all the vineyards and all the sites to plant in the Vakao are basically spoken for. There's no opportunity to grow then. Like there aren't the still places on hillsides where people are scared of all the hard work. Like there was all those years ago when you found discovered aflaten.
24:51
Teresa
No, I mean now people know and people want to do that. And that's also a positive effect of my generation now, because I think the former generation was more like to have more and more quantity and not that good quality. And now people know and my father was always like this, that quality is better than quantity.
25:14
Matthew
Okay.
25:14
Teresa
For example, my friends and I, when I grew up and I started to drink alcohol, it was no alcohol, it was wine, it was quality wine and not like beer or something like this. Yeah. And also my colleagues that are the same age like I am wanted to work and they accept to work hard for the winery and for their career. This is really positive in my opinion, for sure.
25:43
Matthew
And I think one of the greatest examples of this. Tell me there's a story behind the 1996 Ausleza. When the twins were born and the harvest was very small and you complete, almost cut down everything except for just a little wine you made that year. Is that right?
26:03
Rudi
Where did you get this information?
26:07
Matthew
I have my sources. This is where my journalism class takes over.
26:14
Rudi
1996 Was a very. It was the most difficult year. It was very late, very cold, very bad, high acidity. And Teresa is born 1994. And in 1996, Martina and I got twins, Rhodey and Sophie. And Teresa got her own line and I tried to make really the best out only to have some bottles for the twins. And I decided to cut down 2/3 of corona vitrina cornmeats montage vert after flowering. And I did it. And so I think we have 1996, at least one great vine. It was almost impossible, but here you can see the consequences. What is leading my life Quality before quantity. That's it.
27:31
Matthew
So you cut down part of the vineyard, meaning you took out the vines on cold moots?
27:36
Rudi
No, I took out 70% of the grapes after flowering.
27:42
Matthew
Oh, I see. You cut them off. Okay. And what that does is that concentrates and gives all the nutrients of the plant to the grapes that are surviving, that are left. And so your hope is to make very little.
27:54
Rudi
But this was only for the twins. Yeah, yeah.
27:57
Matthew
Do you still have bottles left of the 96?
27:59
Rudi
Of course.
28:01
Matthew
Very cool. Well, this year is their 30th birthday. Right.
28:04
Rudi
So we had some big parties. Yes, yes,.
28:10
Matthew
I like it. Okay, let's talk about the vineyards themselves and the personalities and how one would taste the difference in theirs. Because you showed the pictures of Akhleton before and you're talking about Kolmutz, and we discuss about how Clive Coates said that, you know, this is like, reminded him of Marcel. Let's start back with Akliton. It's high elevation and it's west facing. Right. So explain to our listeners watchers why that makes a difference and then what would stylistically that wine give you different than the others?
28:45
Rudi
Elevation is here between 220 and 400 meters. And the most important difference is to me, the soil. Regarding the old wines, you know, you only can have great wines. If you have old wines and great salt, if you have terrific terroir and old wines, good wines, of course, then it's possible to make great wine.
29:20
Matthew
I see behind you that you have the soils for your single vineyards. And can you describe this a little bit in not only what the soils are, but we had our last episode, we had Madeline Puckett from Wine Folly. And I don't know if you've ever seen any of their content, but she always says that her differentiating factor is she starts in the glass and she says, don't talk to me about soil until you can tell me what's in the glass. So when you tell us about these soils, tell us about how they differ in the glass coin mix.
29:55
Rudi
Just here, behind the winery garden of Edwina. Here, the soil is 370 millions of years and the rocks are weathered like this, extremely weathered. And the roots from the vines up to 60 years can go through. So here you have a very deep impact of minerality. Okay, then Hohraj, our next single vineyard, is just the site of Koimage. Koimitz would be here. Here is Hohran. Here we have two different kind of soils. On the western part, we have the same history. Like here, 370 millions of years. You can see here iron, the bouncing magnesium Mandan. And on the eastern side you have here loss. This loss is our youngest baby and was brought by the wind in the last ice age. Only 16,000 years. 370 Millions of years. 16,000 Years. Then we have here earthbreak.
31:10
Matthew
So, Rudi, before you go on to the next one, can you tell us, you said on the first one in Kolmutz, extreme minerality. That's the signature character. What about these next two?
31:21
Rudi
This is Holzheim. Both soils are brought together. We have one third on earth and two thirds on rocks.
31:32
Matthew
Yep.
31:33
Rudi
And because of the less, which is like limestone, Hohen is always earlier approachable. And the more charming one I see.
31:44
Matthew
Maybe more fruit characters.
31:47
Rudi
More fruit, the more attention you get. Always on rocks.
31:53
Matthew
Okay, Understood.
31:55
Rudi
Okay. Then we have Keflik. Yeah. We have only reasoning. Here is Kofladen. Here is Cornmet. Here is Kirfvi. And there are only some very small potatoes which can be planted for reasoning. You can see here the rows are going with the Daniel, which is here. Because you never plant a vineyard with a river. If the river can flood the vineyard. Okay. Because then wine will take the other out. That means we have here the soil qualify. You can see here its house or chaos. Here we have all the material being brought down by heavy rains over some hundred thousand years from Hohen and Koimitz. So we have here in the plain one of the best sites for Riesling. But it's very limited because it's laying a little bit higher. And Kirfvig would be the same character, like Cormacs.
33:06
Matthew
Why was Riesling planted in that site then instead of Gruner Vettliner?
33:11
Rudi
Because the old people knew much more than we.
33:14
Matthew
Does it have somewhat to do with the like? Does Riesling vines drain better than Gruner Vettliner? So that way, if you're on the plane, it's O. Does that have anything to do with that? Is it just that the soils make better Riesling? Do you have any idea of why?
33:29
Rudi
You know, in former times Riesling was planted in sites which were much drier.
33:36
Matthew
Okay.
33:37
Rudi
And especially Earth Lake, you can see it, because this was more draining.
33:42
Matthew
Got it.
33:42
Rudi
Drainage, you know.
33:44
Matthew
Okay.
33:45
Rudi
And the same on the terraces.
33:47
Matthew
Okay.
33:49
Rudi
And then we have our last single vineyard for our career, it's Arzlite. And our Arclight and arlady is about 22 hectares. Our seven parcels are on the western side. And it's only rocks here. Here you have terraces which can Be worked by tractor with lust. Here we only have rocks, guys. I can show them on picture.
34:21
Teresa
And the Western Atlanten is very steep. And as my dad mentioned already, we only have very big rocks here. Looks like. So it's kind of wine on the rocks.
34:38
Matthew
Okay, so this is cool. So you just showed me then where this wine comes from. This is the Kirschberg 2016 smarad. So we understand why that. And it is on the plane. And then. But where does this wine come from then? Because this is Terezin.
34:57
Rudi
Terezin. It's a very good question. We have more than 50 different parcels within our winery.
35:04
Teresa
Within the 15 hectares, we have 50 different parcels because, you know, the Bajau is not that big. We only have 1350 hectares and about 200 wineries. And every winery owns a little bit of this single vineyard and a little bit of this single vineyard. So it's like Burgundy, not like Bordeaux. And yeah, our winery has at least about 50 different, very small parcels. And it wouldn't make any sense that we produce 50 different wines, of course. So the smaller parcels, the smaller single vineyards come into Feederspiel when the vineyard is located in the plain. And the hireling parcels, the terraced parcels come into Terrasen. We have Gruna Terrasen and we have Riesling Terrasen. So it's a mix of single terraced vineyards.
35:59
Matthew
Understood. Beautiful. When my children are of age and they drink their birth years, we'll play back this video to understand from the winemaker themselves what their wine, where it comes from and what it is. I appreciate that moment of history.
36:12
Rudi
I hope you keep the purpose for your children.
36:15
Matthew
That's what they're for. You can see their names are marked on them here. They have their places in my cellar that nobody can touch those because they're for them when they decide to drink them. And like I said, their collection is better than mine at this point. So good for them.
36:31
Teresa
So cheers.
36:32
Matthew
Cheers. So looking into the future of the va, you know, we never know what happens, right? Maybe a family becomes less interested in winemaking or there's no heirs and something becomes available. But we've talked about climate change a little bit. We've talked about your harvest is getting earlier. We know that champagne just a few days ago marked the earliest pick date in history for champagne. So I'm trying to think, in the future of the Wachau, will Gruner Vettliner always be the main driver? Like, if you had to replant, will you always replant Gruner Vettliner. Would it be Riesling? Would it be a different varietal? I know you make some rotervetliner as well. Like 5% of your plantings.
37:18
Rudi
Much more. Less.
37:19
Matthew
Oh, much less.
37:20
Rudi
The thing is, Matthew, you have always to act, not to react.
37:27
Matthew
Yeah.
37:28
Rudi
What we are doing now, many colleagues are putting after flowering the leaves away to put the grapes into the sun. We avoid this. We let all the leaves like an umbrella to keep the sun away from the grapes, because feedersville is distemped. But we still make maceration three to six hours. With feedersville, with the single vineyards, we are stomping the grapes by feet. And it can go up to 36 hours maceration, skin contact. Because I believe in that the skin of the berries have so much information, authenticity and identity of the pastels they are growing on. And that's our goal, to bring the quality of our terrific terroir into the glass. If you put the grapes into the sun, the grape is protecting itself by building a thicker skin. And then you have too much phenols, then you cannot make maceration.
38:47
Rudi
And that's why modern white winemaking is whole cluster pricing, but whole cluster pressing is white winemaking in the cellar. So we are back to your first question, Wine caretaker. And so again, life is very simple. You have to think it over, you have to act. Then you can manage the situation in best quality. I would not plan how many people try to do now redburn in Bajau. Because what I like to drink, I will not achieve in 80 years. And they will not survive for 80 years. You know.
39:32
Matthew
I see. I just want to clarify one thing. So there are some of the wines you said that are Fetterspiel, where you are whole cluster pressing.
39:42
Rudi
No, no. The difference between fetish Biel, which is to our philosophy the most important wine, because it's much more difficult to show in a so called basic wine. Your philosophy.
39:57
Matthew
I see.
39:58
Rudi
Fe is distemped and maceration three to six hours. And Marac wines are stomped by feet to 36 hours, you know.
40:10
Matthew
Okay. And when you said about leaving the leaves or canopy management, you're doing that on Fettersfield.
40:19
Rudi
Yeah.
40:20
Matthew
And so what that's gonna do though, is also that white pepper component that is signature to Grunewettlin. Or the peppery quality that's going to be enhanced if you leave the leaves on. From my understanding. Would you agree with that?
40:37
Rudi
No, sorry. The white, peppery and et cetera. I think the more important sentence to this description of granovaldina or our Wines. Teresa already told you, if you have old vines and terrific terroir after five to 10 years, and our vines can age up to 40 years. If you have a good cellar, you feel more the character of sateroa, of the specific vineyard, then the great variety character. And these things are, to me, the greatest vines. When the soil is overcoming the character of the grape variety, then it's grapevine.
41:36
Matthew
That makes sense. That makes perfect sense. I have a few last questions for you, and then we'll let you guys go back to doing great wine caretaking.
41:46
Rudi
Thank you for this correction.
41:48
Matthew
Yes. Rudi, you said in previous interviews that you have an ambition. It's like swimming to an island. And once you get there, you just see the next island.
42:00
Rudi
You're well informed. I can remember this interview.
42:04
Matthew
Do you know which island you're swimming towards now?
42:07
Rudi
Grandfather's island.
42:09
Matthew
Grandfather island. Teresa, you have children, right?
42:12
Teresa
Yes, I have a daughter. She is five years. But I will get the nephew from my brother and his girlfriend. Rudi the fifth is coming soon.
42:24
Matthew
Wow. Congratulations. That's fantastic. Okay. Yeah. You're swimming towards the island of grandfatherhood. That's wonderful. And then the last question. Really, as human beings, we are always curious. And you're so entrenched in the vaka, the definition of it, as we said, the caretaker of the vines. However, if you had a chance and somebody offered you a chance to make wine in any other region in the world, where would that be?
42:55
Rudi
I was offered this many times, but I always said no, because Mathieu. If I had made my decision to do a thing, then I'm 100% for this, my decision.
43:16
Matthew
This is just playing fantasy world, though. So either in a fantasy world, where would you go, or I'll say this, where. When you reach for a bottle of red wine, what region do you most often grab for?
43:30
Rudi
If I'm invited? Burgundy. Armand Rousseau.
43:33
Matthew
Armand Rousseau.
43:35
Rudi
Okay, Armand Rousseau. And not Shamchambataille, but Richard Rouchotte. This is my favorite one.
43:44
Matthew
Wonderful. I like it.
43:46
Rudi
Possibility to taste this in the barrel 15 years ago. And Claude, Bez and Charles, it's all okay. But Richard is to me, like Akhletin.
44:00
Matthew
Okay. Armand Rusha, Armand Russo. Rushat is like Akhletin. I love it. How about you, Teresa?
44:09
Teresa
Yeah, like my dad mentioned before, we cannot make really great red stuff and also not sparkling stuff here in Wahau. Not really great stuff because we don't have the soil for that. And I would go for a bottle of champagne. Love the Rotator family. And yeah, we just opened the Bottle of Cristal 2012 and it was just fantastic. I love it.
44:38
Matthew
There you go. Well, one of these days, hopefully we can all meet together and we can have a bottle of Rousseau Rochat and we can have a bottle of Cristal altogether and celebrate. But I thank you so much for being on the wine centric show and sharing your story and what great insights and sharing a little bit, taking us into the Va Ka today. Thank you so much. Thank you for all of you out there. Get yourself some Rudi Pichler wines and you will drink deliciously. Cheers.
45:11
Teresa
Cheers.
45:12
Rudi
Cheers.