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Circling The Drain is a show about the current state of the music and radio businesses as well as culture in general!
Hosted by John E. Bozeman and Jay Harper along with Jim McCarthy as Co-Host/Executive Producer.
John has had a storied career in music and talk radio, most notably as the Executive Producer for the late and legendary Phil Valentine.
Jay also has has a long career in radio as Announcer, Play-by-Play, Voice and On-Camera Actor. He was also an Artist Rep for MCA records.
Jim McCarthy ALSO has had a tremendous career in radio since 1996 and has since brought his consulting/producing skillset to the podcast world.
Circling the Drain is produced by ItsYourShow.co
Unknown: I never got told like
no, absolutely no, but I never
got I never got offered the
opportunity to play piano on my
records. So in a way, that that
was, and I and granted, I don't,
I'm good at what I do, and which
in turn I think would make my
records More authentic,
right?
But yeah, I never got. They
never let me play on my records,
but now I do because I can do
what I want.
Do what you want. Welcome to a
podcast about music and
entertainment before it all goes
down the disposal. This is
circling the drain.
Hey, welcome back to circling
the drain. You know me; I'm
Johnny B, or Johnny Bozeman, as
people call me. One of the two,
Jay Harper.
What is that kind of a split
personality thing? I guess it
is. Yeah, my friends
call me John. Other folks told
me Johnny. You can
call me Ray. You can call me
Jay, but you don't have to call
me Johnson. I'm kind of dating
myself there. How you doing,
Jay? Hey, Jay Harper here. Hey,
doing doing well. I mean, has
that indie race started yet? I
don't know, man. We're still
waiting. We're still waiting.
Anyway, that's another story.
Good to see you, Johnny B. See
you, Jay. And of course, Jimmy
Mac, James Patrick McCarthy,
doing what what he does over
there. You guys went to a race.
Yeah, we well we tried.
Yeah, we did. Yeah, we. I think
we spent more time under the
bleachers at one time in the in
the men's room.
Yeah, hiding from the rain.
Yeah, yeah. Everybody
was in the men's room.
Yeah, it was an unfortunate turn
of events. A race that turned
into a three day escapade. Yes,
it did. Well, three for three
days for me. Yeah,
they ended up racing on the
Monday, and I mean, it was
perfect that day. But anyway, we
don't want to get off into that.
I mean, the race, Johnny. I know
you couldn't make it on the
Monday, but man, it it was good.
You know, when they finally when
they finally threw the green
flag.
Had I been invited, I would have
brought the sunshine.
Oh dear. Well, next time they
will bring you. Hold
on, hold on. We
had plenty of sunshine.
There we go. There, I'll call.
There's my crying, my tears.
Oh, is that what it is? Well, it
was hotter then. Yeah, it was. I
swear to God, hell must have a
lot of humidity because that's
the way it felt. It was a bit
on the worm side. Yeah.
Well, we're getting away from
it. We have a special a special
guest. He's sitting here
going, "Yeah, come on, come take
me. Got to keep my head on swim
with you guys,
but country singer Craig Craig
Campbell is with us. Yes,
indeed. Good to have you, my
friend. Glad to be here. Yes,
yes. There we go. A
traditional country singer. God
love him. Yes, indeed. We need
more. Yeah, no broke country
coming out of this man. Trad
country.
Yeah. Yeah.
Trad country, baby, and plus
also an entrepreneur. Yeah, man,
and we'll talk about that later.
Right, right. He's got the
grindstone cowboy, which is a
very
successful location. Plus,
I love the name. Always, yeah.
The
name came first. Yeah, it's it's
been it's been fun with this
with with the with the
grindstone cowboy.
Now you live in Eagleville,
yeah. So you're almost a
neighbor of mine.
I live there. You and
Trace Atkins.
Trace. Trace lives there. I live
in the city limits, which I'm. I
don't know if you knew this or
not, but I'm also on city
council.
Yeah, I was telling Jim that
before, and I
was on the way over here today,
and and I got a stretch of road
travel coming up. That I got to
have my paperwork turned in
because I'm running again, and I
got to have it turned in by the
20th. And I'm like, I don't
have, I don't have time, so I
got to get back to and just I'm
I'm gonna set the the because
you got to get 50 people to
petition.
Yeah.
So I'm just gonna set it off at
the at the counter at
Grindstone, and just have people
sign it.
There you go. That was
smart.
Yeah, very good. So, I mean, who
takes credit for the coming up
with that cool name?
That was me. I mean, I just
mistakenly heard someone say
Grindstone Cowboy. I thought I
thought that's what they said,
and then just immediately I
thought that would be a great
name for a coffee shop,
yeah.
And I just tucked it away, and I
even trademarked it too. I was
like, "This is I'm gonna hold on
to this one, you know, no matter
what. And then COVID hit, and
and I knew I knew we had to had
to come up with a contingency
plan with with with our because
all of my shows were taken off
the books, and that that was
something that I had no control
over, and I never thought that
day would come. And so I talked
to my wife, and she said, "We're
not doing that. That's terrible.
That's a terrible idea. And I,
but I wouldn't let it go, and
and we just I kept kept on and
on, and finally I I said, "Hey."
Let me show you what I'm talking
about. I took her to a place in
Lewisburg and showed it. I said,
"This is what I'm talking about,
but better and cooler. And so
then she was on board. So yeah,
so we we bought the building in
2021 and and opened in 2022.
And I remember that because I
was on the radio at the time,
and man, I I plugged the hell
out.
I just wanted you to know I
appreciate it. Well, it worked.
Well, I'm glad. I'm glad
we had our grand opening was
absolutely insane that day. I
remember, and and you know, I
had talked to Trace Adkins about
just just popping in, making an
appearance and and he's like,
yeah, I'll be there for you. And
the day came and and it was it
was it was a madhouse. It was,
you know, if you've been to
Grindstone Cowboy and
Eagleville, you know it's small,
and so we you know just to
imagine 200 people in there.
Well, yeah, in fact, my wife and
I were going to go to the grand
opening, and once we got there,
it was like the the line. I
don't think we're gonna make it
in. It was it was pretty
awesome. So I I texted Trace. I
said, "Hey, it's crazy. If you
don't want to be a part of this,
I totally get it. So then he
calls me. He's like, "What's
going on? And I said, "I just
said, man, there's a lot of
people here, and you would you
would get bombarded. And I said,
"I, you know, if I totally
understand, if if you don't want
to come down, he's like, 'No,
I'm coming.
Well, and let's be honest, if
anybody can make a crowd, you
know, part, he's like Moses.
Well, not only that, but he can
see over most of the crowd, and
and he did the
coolest thing, man. He showed up
full, full Trace Adkins like
dressed up, cowboy hat, all of
it. Yeah, got behind the bar and
was making drinks and just. And
then he's like, "Hey, you know,
telling me he was about to
leave. I guess I'm gonna go kiss
some babies. And so then he
starts at the register and
starts to making his way out the
front door. And just it took him
probably 45 minutes. He he took
pictures and signed autographs,
and it was just one of the
coolest things. He's
a cool guy. Yeah, he is.
Yeah, we were fortunate to have
him on our podcast. I mean, the
man sat here for good while.
Yeah, to where we were able to
come up with three episodes. I
love his. He's a good dude.
Yeah.
Well, in fact, I got to point
out though. You know, when you
see him on other podcasts, and
even at Grindstone Cowboy, he
comes you know in the Trace
Atkins garb with us. Yeah, he
had a cap on
and his old overalls just
come off the farm. I was gonna
say he probably just got off his
tractor. He did, he did,
he did. But you know, I kind of
like that.
Yeah,
you know what's funny is that I
noticed that other podcasts, I
guess, since they've he's been
on ours, asked him about his
wife shooting him. Yeah, now I'm
seeing a lot of those clips from
other podcasts. Yes, making the
rounds. Yes, it is. So
I think I saw one recently as
well.
Yeah, basically
saying she didn't. I saw the
clip where he he was telling he
didn't he didn't think she meant
to do it. Right. Yeah. I don't
know what podcast I saw that,
but
yeah, yeah, we started it. Yeah,
we did. Yeah, we posted an
interesting
story. Oh, it is. Not everybody
survived it. Yeah, not everybody
can say you've been shot. Yeah,
and
survive.
Right. I'm sure a lot. Most of
us, our wives, want to shoot us.
Oh, trust me, I know mine does.
Well, I know.
You know, we pulled a clip from
our podcast of him giving that
story, and on Facebook it's got
almost 4 million views. Yeah,
just that one one.
It's a great story. Oh, it is.
It's
great. But I know you've got
great stories because you you
know you live in Eagleville now,
but you came here from Georgia.
Yeah. What what town were you
born in? So
born and raised down in South
Georgia. I grew up in Lyons,
Georgia, which is nobody really
knows where Lyons is, but we we
share the county with Vidalia.
Yes, which is you know we're
famous for the onions.
Yes,
sir. And so yeah, born and
raised. I played piano for my
church as a kid. Graduated high
school. I was hired by the
Department of Corrections. I was
I was a correctional officer for
about two years, and realized
that that was not my path. But
music music had had always been
been there, and always felt like
it was something I was good at.
And put a band together and
started playing nationwide, like
doing just bars and honky tonks,
and and and then just had I
said, man, I I need to get to
Nashville. I need to be
surrounded by people that that
like minded and like creative
and types that I just I needed
to be around that, and so I made
the move. Buddy of mine called
me. He said, "Hey man, me and my
wife are getting a divorce. I
need a roommate. If I can get
you a job, would you move up
here? And it was perfect timing.
I said, "Absolutely. Drove up on
a Thursday. Went for my
interview that Friday morning.
Morning. She hired me on the
spot. Drove back home, loaded my
truck up, and that was in 2002.
And yeah.
Oh wow. Now I know Travis Tripp
was a big influence. Yeah.
Well, I mean, honestly, I was
influenced. I was I was one of
the lucky ones to grow up during
that early '90s, just boom of
country music. That was that was
when I was getting heavily
influenced as as an artist, as a
singer, whatever. And so I tell
people all the time, these like
who who were some of your
influences? I'm like, if you
were on the radio between 1988
and '95, that you were
influencing me. Yeah, and I just
I don't think it'll ever be that
good anymore. No, I don't
either. And so I always say I
was taught by the best. But
yeah, Travis Tripp was probably
my favorite. If I had to pick a
favorite, it would be it'd be
him.
That's a good one to choose
because you talk about a guy
that's got a lot of he can do
rhythm and blues. I know so
versatile,
so versatile. I know he has a
reputation of doing kind of
those rowdy honky talk, but man,
nobody can lay down a ballad
like that dude. Ballads, you
know,
bluegrass, rock and roll, yeah,
southern rock, gospel. He could
do it all, and he could play. He
was an amazing musician, still
is, and and also just a great
songwriter. Like if you if you
go back and look at the credits,
he he either solo wrote most of
those songs or maybe just him
and one one other person, just
very very like I looked up to
that.
Well, and one thing I like too,
because when I was coming up,
the the guys that I really got
into were Waylon Jennings, Merle
Haggard, you know, David Allenco
is another one, even though he's
crazy. But one thing I loved
about Travis Tritt was that if
you look at Wayland's last show
at the Ryman, they're doing
"I've Always Been Crazy, and
Travis does guitar solo in it,
and he
just tore it out. Yeah, it
sounded
like Travis's version of
Wayland's play, and it was
great. Yeah, I mean,
Travis's yeah, he's top notch.
Yeah, he's just a great
entertainer.
Yeah.
So when did you get your first?
Because one of your first
records was Family Man. It was
that was the
first single.
Yeah,
yeah. It's you know I moved here
in '02, and and again, all I
wanted to do was be here and be
around other people. I just my
my goal. I never I never had the
the like the dream of being on
the radio. It was never never
part of the the the plan. All I
wanted to do was be here, play
music, and pay my bills. That
was was all I wanted to do.
Yeah, and so what that meant to
me was I got to get on Lower
Broadway. So being a piano
player, that's how I got my foot
in the door. I played piano for
almost every everybody on Lower
Broadway. I was I was playing
piano for those folks, and then
slowly started getting my own
gigs and on Lower Broadway, and
and in the meantime, became
friends with some other folks
and got hired to play piano for
Luke Bryan before Luke signed
his record deal. We we met and
he was doing shows in Georgia
and like college towns and and
saw his piano player for a hot
minute, and then after that, I
was I got hired to play for
Tracy Bird. Played for him for
about a year and a half, almost
two years, and all the while
just still doing my lower
Broadway stuff, and and and
yeah. So I was playing at a
place called the Stage. Yeah,
and there was a bartender there
named Kimmy. She she was dating
a guy in the music business. She
and she told him she's like,
"You got to come see this guy.
And he did. He came a solid
year, year and a half, every
Tuesday night. That was my spot,
you know. And and he would come.
He'd sit there and watch. And
and then one night he said,
"You're ready. We're about to
open a record label. We want you
to be our guy, and that was in
2008. I finally signed my record
deal with them in 2009, and
Family Man came out 2010.
Yeah, the video for Family Man
is really, really special. Whose
concept was that? Did you have
any input in the visuals on that
video.
I had some input, just but it
was that was a video that was
that was the idea for that video
came from Sean Silva. He was he
was the director on that video,
but I did I did want I did want
my girls in
it.
So Presley's in it. She was two
and a half, maybe almost three.
Is she the little girl picking
the the flow? Oh God, adorable!
And then
Kenny was has just been born,
and that was the girl the the
lady in the video was not my
wife because my wife, you know,
she was just fresh out off of
having a baby, so she she didn't
feel like she was. Camera ready,
but in retrospect, we should
have made it happen. That out of
all the songs that I ever made a
music video for, she that should
she should have been in that
video, and we we both agree. But
can't cry over spilled milk.
That's
true. That's true. How many kids
do you have?
Just the two.
Just the two.
I'm always
curious about when people come
to town, and you hear about the
stories. You came here in '02.
You said got the real work
really started happening in '09.
You get signed. I always say
it's the initial years leading
up to getting signed, and then
oh hey, we got signed. Now the
real work happens because now
you got to try and you know it's
either slow and steady wins the
race, or it's a pop flash, and
you're just you know all those
types of things happen. Did you
have that expectation coming in,
like coming to town? Did you
know it would take 356, years
somewhere in there?
I mean, yeah, because you heard
about and and again, it never
was when I got to Nashville. I
never it wasn't. I got to get a
record deal,
right?
And I wasn't trying to get to
that spot. I just it was a
gradual. Oh, I met this. I met
this guy, and then I started
writing songs with this guy, and
then met this publisher, and and
then they was like, man, you
know, and you start seeing the
friends that you make while
you're here getting publishing
deals and getting songs cut and
getting record deals. You're
like, I mean, I think I'd I'd
like to do that, you know. But
yeah, I I never thought that
like the the the idea that it
would take an X amount of time
it wasn't wasn't part of.
So the whole impetus was to
basically get. I just needed to
get to Nashville and raise my
game.
Yeah,
right. Yeah, I just wanted to be
here. I wanted to. I knew that
I, you know, growing up in South
Georgia, I was. I, I felt like I
was good at what I was doing,
but I knew that that I was as
good as I would ever be in South
Georgia, and I wanted, I wanted
to, and you know, when I got to
Nashville, I would step on stage
playing piano for A-list
musicians, and I'm over here
like struggling, and I it was
one of those situations where
either I get better or they'll
never hire me again.
Right,
and so I mean I was it was I was
always trying to be better at my
craft.
So you felt like coming here
would challenge you and force
you quote unquote, to raise your
game, or
yeah,
you got to go home for
sure. Yeah, and yeah.
So, how old were you when you
came to town?
I was so an old. I was 23 when I
got yeah.
Okay, yeah, and and
even being a piano player, you
have an edge because there's not
many. There's so many guitar
players, so many singers, so
many wannabe artists, so many
drummers.
Yeah,
you and the bass player are kind
of like a rarity. We're a rare
commodity. Just you know to hit
on that for a second. Yeah, when
I got to
Nashville on Lower Broadway, you
know, Lower Broadway was a
thing. It was a scene, and there
was maybe one, maybe two other
piano players. So if you were a
singer and you wanted piano in
your band, I mean, you you're
calling one of us, and and and
there were at the time probably
10 or 12 stages down there.
Yeah,
and so I was working five six
nights a week and making. I was
making enough money that when I
did finally get offered a record
deal, they said, "Hey, we we
need you to stop playing Lower
Broadway.
We
need you to stop singing demos
for other songwriters, and
here's what we're going to pay
you as a draw. And it was wasn't
even half
of
what I was making. I said that
that ain't gonna work. You need
to cut your pay in half. Yeah.
So and stop doing side hustles.
So we did. We
negotiated in my deal, I was
able to any gig, $500 and below,
I get to keep the money because
the deal that I had was a was a
complete 360 deal, and then also
I was able to keep singing
demos, but I was they told me at
least at least be very selective
of the songwriters that you sing
demos for. Now I played Lower
Broadway. Family Man was a top
40 before I ever quit.
Yeah,
they they finally the record
label finally said, "Okay,
enough's enough. I was like,
"But I'm having so much fun. So
yeah, Family Man was in was in
high 30s. It was in January of
2011 when I finally was like,
"Yeah, I guess I got to quit
Lower Broadway.
Yeah,
you know, I'm curious about the
the demo singing thing. I know
Joe Diffie, Jamie Frick. You
know, a lot of folks were demo
singers, Shania Twain and
others. But Rich
Bentley too.
Yeah, that. Yeah, right. I mean,
did you ever come across a tune
that you kind of put in your
back pocket that you were able
to put on one of your albums.
I did, but it was late in the
game, and I had already kind of
started working with bigger
picture and Keith Stegall
specifically. Keith Stegall,
yeah, who was
a great artist in his own right
back in the back in the 80s.
So when me and Keith, when when
they. Knew I was going to sign
with them. Keith's way of of
feeling me out, he he hired me
to sing some demos, and one of
them was a song he wrote with
the Lee Bryce called "All Night
to Get There, and I loved it.
And so when we when it came time
to to do the the first album, I
I said I I want to record that
song. So that was that was the
one, but like I said, it was we
were already kind of in the
process. It's almost like he was
pitching it. He he was checking
me out as to how I operated in
the studio, and then also I
think he was just pitching that
song to me in a way. And but no,
there's only one other situation
where I sang the demo that I
ever heard somebody else cut it,
and I sang a song called "Braid
My Hair" that Randy Owen put out
back back when he like his first
solo project that he was doing a
song for for St. Jude, and it
was you know talking about a
little girl with cancer and her
her all she wanted to do was
braid her hair, so that was only
out of the hundreds and hundreds
of demos that I had sang, that
was the only one I ever heard
somebody cut, and I was like,
"Well, I don't know what that
says about me as as a demo
singer, but I had I had fun with
it, and it taught me a lot.
Now, from what I understand, in
Georgia, were you part of the
True Value Country Showdown?
Tell tell me about that. I I'll
tell you why I have an interest
in that.
So yeah, I was that's where the
the stage bug bit me. I I was
15, and my sister had signed me
up for this for this contest,
and I didn't know anything about
it.
And she she signed me up, and
and then she she helped me pick
two songs because you sing two
songs, right? So on the local
level, and so I ended up
winning. I won, and the local
level, I won out of 22
contestants. I won, and that was
yeah, that was when I said, man,
I really like being up here and
singing these songs and having
people cheer, and I was like,
"Yeah, this is what I want to
do.
I was one of the producers for
that from 1990 to 95. Went all
over the country chasing the
thing.
I was my first one was 94, and
then yeah, and then I won again
in 97. Like I say, won local. I
won the local. Yeah, so you
went to the state show, and I
went to the state and
got got got my ass handed to me.
Yeah, I never did. I was ready
for that. I wasn't ready for
that. Yeah,
we would have run into one
another if I had done one of the
the Georgia state show. But
anyway, I just found that
interesting. You know that that
used to be the Wrangler Country
Showdown before it became True
Value GMC truck,
and then Colgate,
yes, a Colgate country showdown.
You had Jimmy Dean was Jimmy
Dean Sausage. Well,
that was the when I was was the
Jimmy Dean True Value Coach
Show. Yeah, that was right,
right, the one I did.
Yeah, yeah.
And then at the the club where
where they were having it every
year, after I think I was in it
six years in a row, and then
that was when I put my band
together. So then we became the
backing band.
Oh yeah, yeah. For the next
couple for the next couple of
years. Yeah, I believe there was
a club in Marietta that was a
state location on a couple of
occasions. The Buckboard,
maybe.
Yeah, I don't know. Maybe I
don't know if it was cowboy. You
know, everybody had a cowboy. Oh
yeah, Kennesaw.
There's a cowboys in Kennesaw.
Oh, there was. There was. Yeah.
Anyway, anyway, I just found
that interesting. But yeah, we.
I don't know. Hell, maybe we did
cross paths. Probably did. Or if
you
did, though, I think he'd
remember you, Jake. Yeah, you're
hard to forget. Of course, that
was
30 years and 30 pounds ago, long
time ago. Yeah.
One thing I love about your
trajectory, it it reminds me a
lot of how Gary Stewart came
into Nashville because he played
keyboards as well, and that
seems to be. I think. I think
when someone, because I like
what you're saying, is that you
said you kind of just went bit
by bit. Yeah, you know,
basically taking baby steps to
to get where you you know to
where you're you're a star. And
I think that's what I hear from
a lot of headliners is that they
don't. I didn't think about big
arenas or anything like that
when I was starting out. I was
just trying to get to this level
and then go from here to the
next level, and I think that's
where a lot of successful
country acts. I think that's how
they get successful. Yeah,
and you know, people, how famous
you get? People ask, how famous
do you want to be? I was like,
well, you know, I don't think
anybody that's that's selling
out stadiums ever came to a spot
and said, "Yeah, this is good.
I'll just stay right here in
this spot. You know, you just
you keep. I think human nature
always you always want to get
whatever whatever that next
level is. You're trying to get
to that, no matter what it is.
And for me, like I've never had
a number one song in country
radio. That so that's my. And I,
as an artist, I don't think I'll
ever get there any now. But that
was always that threshold. And
then after after that, I don't
know what would have been next.
But you know, that was the the
most like right in front of me.
This is what I want as as after
signing a record deal and having
songs on the radio and having
successful songs on the radio, I
still didn't hadn't had that
number one song yet. I was like,
okay, well that's next for me,
and then what after that? I
don't know what what would have
been.
Yeah. Well, nobody
nobody ever says, hey, I'm I'm
only I only want to be this
famous. You know, you you can't
stop it if it if it keeps going,
you keep going.
Exactly. You just keep climbing.
Yeah,
but I one thing I I dig about
you compared to a lot of
artists, it seems like you're
really well grounded. You're
not, you know, you're you're. It
doesn't seem like you're, you
know, having a drug problem or
you know you're destroying your
life. You've you've always
seemed like you're even keel,
like you're you're a stand-up
guy.
Well, there has been some things
behind the scenes that that have
humbled me. I remember early on
with Family Man. Family Man came
out, and we were we did
extremely well. It was a top 15.
It was a ballad as for a brand
new artist on an independent
label. All the things that were
going against me, we still had a
we had a hit, and then my the
song after that, fish it it
didn't chart very well. It went
to like top, went to 23 or so,
but it it was like it was highly
consumed. It was
well, I like that too.
So those first two songs, I'm
like, man, this is easy. And
then the third song, yeah, the
third song rolls around and it
it races to number 38 and just
done. And I'm like, oh. And
then, so that whole year, I'm
seeing money coming in that I've
never seen in my whole life. So
I'm me and my wife, we're
blowing through it.
Yeah.
Then January rolls around,
February, and we we get hit with
our our tax bill.
Oh yes.
And we didn't expect that, and
so then here I am. We're we're
stuck with I don't know what
we're going to do. And so that
was a wake up call. Um. And then
the record label closing and and
signing a new record deal, and
just my whole career has been a
roller coaster. So I have been
humbled in many ways, and it it
I've also I'm pride myself in in
knowing what I can and can't
control, you know, the prayer of
serenity,
right?
And I'm really good at it. And
my wife, you know, she, she
worries about stuff, and I
don't. And so we work. We're
we're very like we're yin and
yang,
right?
But I just my whole whole life,
I say, well, I can't, ain't
nothing I can do about it, you
know.
Right,
you know. You've mentioned how
you know Trace Adkins, Travis
Tritt, friends and folks you've
looked up to. You know, they've
they've done the acting thing
and quite well. Both of them are
pretty darn good actors. I mean,
have you ever had that bug or
any interest in that?
I absolutely would love to. I've
even mentioned it to Trace. I'm
like, hey, if you ever hear of a
of any kind of small roles that
I can just hop in and do a line
or two, I mean, I'm your guy.
I'd love to. I just outside of
just music videos and and some
content, local social media
content as of late, I've not
been able to get on a real set,
but I'd love to. Yeah.
Well, I do think you know we
talk quite a bit about who's the
guy that does the all the
Western stuff. Oh, oh, Taylor
Sheridan. Yeah, Taylor Sheridan.
Yeah, I mean, you know, you can
certainly you could slide in
the. I'd
love, I'd love to meet Taylor
and see if he could throw me
throw me some crumbs.
Yeah, right.
Yeah, he could have you on. Was
it Landman? Landman.
Any of those. Duncan Ranch.
Yeah, yeah. You know, Landman's
great because it's got you know
already got country music on.
You got Mark Mark Colley and and
and even even Billy Bob Billy
Bob's got a
yeah
pretty good band. Both
of those guys, Colly and Billy
Bob, were at the IndyCar race.
Yeah, they were.
And matter of fact, Mark Colley
he did the green flag when they
finally raced when they finally
got the race going.
Oh, did he on the
Monday? Yeah. Now I understand,
Craig. I mean, you come from a
broken home as a you know a
young man, you know a little
boy, and your your your natural
father. He passed away when you
were fairly young, right? I
mean, did that influence? You
know, I I go back to. You know
Merle Haggard. I mean, I'm sure
the man certainly wanted his dad
around, but you know, in my
mind, we would not have had
Merle Haggard had his father not
passed away when he did. I mean,
it
really turned the Hag into what
he became from a songwriting
perspective and so forth. I
mean, when you look back on
that, does does his passing at a
younger age for you had did it
have any impact on on the
songwriter or anything that your
musicianship has evolved into?
I don't I don't think so. Yeah,
him, my dad, my mom, they
divorced when I was a baby. I
don't ever remember them ever
living in the same house, and so
I only got to see him every
other weekend. And he was sick
for a couple of those years, so
I didn't wasn't like a
consistent every other weekend.
There was there was times where,
and he was also in prison a
couple of times too, so there
was there was stretches of just
not seeing him for. So I I
didn't I didn't know him very
well. So when he died, I just
he's my dad. Like on without
trying to figure the best
description, he was my dad, like
my biological dad, on paper. But
I didn't know the guy very well.
Got you.
So musically, no, there's no,
no, nothing. I don't miss
anything about him because I
didn't know him. Right, right.
Well,
and I hope I didn't bring up an
uncomfortable subject for you.
But I, I always find it
interesting when you look at
successful artists and what the
dynamic was of them growing up
that, in large part, may have
shaped you know them from a you
know certainly from a life
perspective it does. But I'm
just wondering you know from a
musical perspective. So I was
just just curious on
the on the other side of that.
My stepdad you know he was he
was in my life and he came into
my life when I was about seven,
and he raised me. And so, if you
like, outskirts of heaven, when
I say my grandpa taught me, he's
really my saying my stepdad
because I didn't know either of
my grandpas either. But grand
grandpa sang better than
stepdad. So yeah. So in
outskirts of heaven, I I put my
grandpa taught me, but it was
but it was in actual all those
things that I listed were my
stepdad taught me.
Well, your mother too in church.
Yeah, didn't she?
Mama was you know she was she
was we'd go to church and she
she was a great singer, still
is, and and she I'd stand beside
her and and hear her singing and
and she was really good at
harmony and and I didn't know at
the time you know as a kid I I
didn't know what harmony was I
just knew she was doing
something different than the
rest of the church but it
sounded really cool so by by
accident, or just me in in
approximate closeness, she
taught me harmony just by
standing beside her in church
and singing those old gospel
hymns.
Yeah, I think gospel. A lot of
people don't realize, but gospel
music has been very influential
in all kinds of music, like rock
music, blues, and country,
and so many artists. I mean, you
know, we sit here on the podcast
talking to many artists like
you, and most all of them say
that gospel is kind of where
they started.
Yes, you know, or at least
started being introduced to
music anyway. Yeah, you know
Chris Golden, Trace Adkins. I
mean, many of the artists that
we've had here have all said
that. You know, that's kind of
where they got. Yeah, it was got
the bug for
me. Yeah, it was my mama would
go to church and take us with
her, and and she was a she was a
chatterbox. So church was over.
She's over there hanging out
with the other ladies, and I'm
I'm just walking around with
nothing, no nobody, you know. So
I found myself at the piano, and
I was intrigued by it. I wasn't
like banging, you know, like
some kids just want to make
noise. I was just truly
interested, and she saw that
because anytime she, anytime I
got lost, she knew where to find
me, and so she heard my stepdad
bought a piano and brought it
into the house, and and just
started teaching myself. What
kind of
piano was it? Was it upright? I
still have it. Yeah, it's I have
it now at my house, it's it's a
yeah upright.
Yeah, that's where how my
brother started. You started how
old were you?
Yeah, 7878,
He was about six years old when
he started playing. He's still
playing though.
So you had no formal training.
You just yeah, that's impressive
to teach yourself to the level
where you can compete on lower
broad. Yeah,
you. Actually, you done
good
when you as I'm speaking as a
musician. I'm a drummer, not
really a musician. Yeah, but
he's
moron. What do
we? When you teach yourself, it
really kind of like getting
formal education in music can
kind of shackle you. I mean,
that's what Eddie made Eddie Van
Halen so good because he taught.
He's self-taught. I mean, that's
it. It kind of helps you explore
the instrument in a more
unorthodox way.
But on the flip side, there I
did get to. I plateaued.
Yeah.
You know, I I taught myself
everything I could teach myself.
So when I got to Nashville, you
know, I would I would watch
other piano players and just
wash their hands. I'm like, ah,
that was cool. And then, and
then, you know, getting the
Tracy Bird gig and having to
learn records to the to the
note.
Yeah, did you learn how to chart
and read music and everything?
No, just just numbers. Yeah,
yeah, just the numbers. Yep,
yeah, because
that's that's amazing to me. Is
that such a musician-rich town,
how not like a good majority of
the people here are not formally
educated. They don't, yeah,
can't read notes on a on a
paper. It's
crazy.
I I will say that people that
read music and can read and play
at the same exact time. That's
that's impressive.
That's it is amazing. Yeah.
Well, you know,
you were talking about how you
have seen a lot of the the great
musicians were not formally
taught. You know, on the flip
side of that, you look at Elton
John, who was very formally, you
know, trained. But then he, you
know, started adding his. You
know, I still say, even at
almost 80 years old, the dude is
still one of the greatest piano
players ever.
Oh sure,
you know the dude's just
brilliant. But so you know, I
think it just kind of you know
whatever whatever you're exposed
to, if you've got the talent,
you know it shows one way or the
other. Yeah.
Well, and I liked what Eddie Van
Halen said. He said it. He said
throw away the rule book. He
said if it sounds good.
Yeah, it is. He literally looked
at the guitar of what else can
it do? What else can I make it
do? The my buddy Rich Redman,
who plays for Aldine, right? He
he came to town. He calls
himself a highly educated. He's
got a master's in education,
highly educated drummer, and he
says, "I would thought I would
have come in here and dominate
this town. He says, but man, I
got you know a comeuppance of
comeuppances, like you know, no,
that I need to get into the
club. I need to start. It was
all about relationships, you
know. Well, and
the thing is about this town,
everybody I think comes to town
feeling that way, like, oh, I'm
gonna, yeah, I'm gonna own this
town. Get ready, Nashville.
Yeah, I'm here. I'm here, and
you don't realize, yeah, there
are 1000s.
Yeah, Nashville ain't ready for
me. Yeah, it's like it's like
the Woo girls that come here.
They're not ready for. Yeah,
they are. Yeah, they're ready to
charge you $18 beers. Trust me.
Yes,
but that's one thing. It's the
great humbling when you finally
get here and you go, my God, the
waitress has more talent than I
do. Right. I mean, I did.
I did the Huey gig about a year
ago. I played for a Huey Lewis
in a news tribute band, and I
took. I mean, I had some rust,
so I had to shake off the rust,
and I probably practiced that
show for about three months
before we played City Winery,
knowing I was going to be
playing with just these rock
stars, you know what I mean. I'm
like, and who am I? A little Jim
McCarthy from Danbury,
Connecticut, that you know has
this opportunity. I know I could
bring it, but it's still you
know Chris Rodriguez on guitar.
I mean, the dude played with
Keith Urban for probably 15
years, and you know Scott
Sheriff on keyboards. He's
playing for Carrie Underwood and
Steve Nieves. I don't know if
you know he a sax player of Sat.
My God, who called
you for the gig?
He was a guy in my BNI The I
belong to a business a marketing
business networking group, and
one of the guys in the group has
a band that's Huey Lewis in a
news tribute band. That's one of
the things I always wanted to
do. So I met him and I said,
"I'm going to play for you.
So somebody thought you were
good enough to do
it. I, you know, they saw some
videos of me and my brother
playing. There you go. Yeah,
you belonged in that situation.
It was fun. It
was a lot of fun. I've always
felt that way. Like I, yes,
there were. I was surrounded by
people way better than me,
yeah.
But I always felt like I
belonged. I didn't. I never
thought like, oh God, I I gotta
this, you know.
Yeah,
I don't fit in. I was I was
always in the mindset. This is
these are my people, and I'm I'm
just yeah.
Did you ever get into a studio
and get vibed? They always talk
about people vibing. You know
what that is, where basically
you walk into a studio and it's
like they make you feel like you
don't belong. Oh, 100%
especially early on when I was
writing songs and we would demo
songs, and I and I knew I was
close to getting maybe close to
signing a record deal, and I
knew that things were. Coming
and and so some of the musicians
would treat me like I wasn't.
Yeah, I'm not going to say his
name, but there was a a
particular guitar player that
that I knew what I wanted out of
this song is my song. I wrote it
and I was potentially going to
put it on a record, and he just
wasn't having it, and he just
and he just he checked out and
and I said you know what I
didn't say this to him but
you'll you'll never play on
another record of mine and if I
and if somebody asks me about
you I'm gonna tell them exactly
how I feel about you and
who is this see that's what Jim
does Jim tries to get names out
of people you were just waiting
for it. I was. I was waiting for
Jim to do that. But
you know that happens so much in
Nashville, and it also happens
in radio too. You have radio
people that
we had a voice guy that did that
to us. Like he, you know, the
Jack voice guy, Howard Cogan.
Yeah, he would critique the
copy, and like I'm not reading
that. I'm like, dude, you're
we're paying you to you read the
fricking line. Holy crap! This
isn't hey, you get to pick a
juice. Well,
I just remember I I there was a
DJ in town that I really
admired. I loved his voice, and
we were moving into the same
building. I won't say what radio
station it was. It was a country
station, a big one.
This is recent, like no, this
was last decade.
Probably, probably in
the the yachts,
the 90s.
Okay, it was
in the 90s, and so I I got to
meet this guy and and walked
into the studio because I number
one I didn't want to bother him
and the production guy said no
man he'd love to meet you
whatever and because by that
time we had made a name for
ourselves in radio and so he he
brings me into the studio boy
this guy couldn't have been
nastier didn't even say nice to
meet you. Whatever he just
blessed out the production guy
about some copy that he had,
never acknowledged me. Whatever,
and I walked out of there
thinking, God, what jackass.
Yeah, I mean it just
yeah. And who was this kind of
like
you? And who was this guy? And
who are we talking about? And
another side of that would was I
would be tracking a demo, and so
if let's say I book the session,
I'm tracking going to try to get
four songs out of this session,
and you your co-writers will
show up when you know their song
is getting recorded, and then
occasionally you'd have have
written a song with somebody
that has a name, a producer, and
you could just see see like a
successful producer.
Yes,
and you could just see the the
musician's demeanor change as
soon as as soon as that producer
walks in. Still me, it's still
my song, but it just so happens
this guy is a co-writer and he
he has the producer creds, so
then they all, yes sir, you know
that type, and it's just
frustrating. It was, but you
know I haven't I haven't felt
that way in a long time, but I
do remember those. You know
my dad used to call guitar
players like the ones you
encountered. He called them
wounded guitar pickers. Yeah,
you found a lot of wounded
guitar pickers in the
Hartsville. Yeah.
Well, you know, Wade Hayes said
that he encountered that as a
outstanding guitar player,
right?
You know, in the studio where he
was kind of made to feel like he
didn't measure up, kind of
thing. Oh, sure. You know, as a
young man coming into a studio,
I didn't. I never got told like
no, absolutely no, but I never
got I never got offered the
opportunity to play piano on my
records. So in a way that that
was, and I and granted I don't
I'm good at what I do, and which
in turn I think would make my
records more authentic.
Right,
but yeah, I never got. They
never let me play on my records,
but now I do because I can do
what I want.
Do what you want, yeah. Now, did
you? You know, you said you had
a friend that invited you up to
town, and so you came here as a
single man.
Yeah.
Okay, so I guess you met your
wife here. Yeah, and it sounds
like your family, like most of
us, I mean, you know, means the
world to you. So tell us, how
and where did you meet your
wife?
So I knew Mindy before I got to
town. My my bass player was was
already lived. He lived here, so
he would commute down to Georgia
when we were when we had our
band, and we before I ever moved
to Nashville, he dated her
roommate, so I knew who she was.
And every time we would come
kind of through Nashville, we
would we would stop by, and she
was playing on Lower Broadway,
so we would we would stop in and
watch her show. And and I was I
was always just just like
thought she was smoke show, and
and and but. Always had a
boyfriend, and and so yeah,
2003. I was here about a year,
and and she needed a piano
player for a gig coming up, and
she called me, and and I said,
yeah, I'm in, and that's where
it all began. That's it, right?
So we so yeah, we got together
for rehearsal, and then when the
rehearsal was over, all the rest
of the band left except me.
Yes.
So yeah, and we've been together
ever since.
Yeah, conniving, maneuvering,
Craig.
You know, that's what a guy's
got to do. I said, hey guys,
y'all go ahead. I need
to talk to Mindy about some
stuff.
I've got some ivories to tickle
or something.
So your daughter named Presley.
I mean, is that a is that an
Elvis fan coming out in someone,
or is that just a name you
liked?
No, we just liked the name
Pressly, and it's like it's got
2e's at the end. Ah, her Mindy's
dad Terry, his middle name
is
Lee, so he was he was like, I
sure would like to get so yeah
yeah so it's a little nod to to
Grandpa so it's Presley yeah as
long as it's not like P R E S S
L E I apostrophe with I mean
granted
like the 2e's is is already
enough trouble
because everyone thinks Presley,
right? But yeah, well, yeah,
like I did, like Elvis, yeah.
So what drew you guys to
Eagleville to live?
We made a couple of really awful
financial decisions when I first
met Mindy. She owned a tannin
salon in Franklin, and while we
were there, while we were
together, we bought a. The next
door to us was a Sprint store
PCS like cell phone,
yeah.
And we were we were talking
about expanding our portfolio,
and and this guy overheard us,
and he's like, "Well, you should
buy this place, and it's right
next door to each other. And and
we never saw him coming. You
know, he he took total advantage
of us, and and we ended up
having to having to downsize.
And so, because we lived right
off of Liberty Pike in in
Franklin, nice little house, and
so we just we needed somewhere
to go that wasn't as that we
could buy a house and live in
this house for a lot less money.
So we she found a house in
Eagleville and for for 90
$94,000. Wow! What year
was this? It
was oh five. Oh wow! So
Eagleville was was
nothing back then. I moved here
in '05, and Spring Hill was
nothing. Bedroom community,
yeah. So she found that house. I
was actually out on the road
with Tracy Bird, and she calls
and says, "Hey, I found this
house. I said, "Cool, and she
said, "I put an offer in on it.
I was like, "Hey, great! And
then she's like, "They accepted,
so I never saw the house until
we were signing the paperwork.
And now it's worth millions for
somebody
else. Yeah, we sold it about it
year and a half later, and
because we built a house to sell
in Eagleville, and that's right
when the the the market crash
back in like oh seven yeah oh
eight yeah so so we ended up
moving into it and then we lived
there for probably 1213 years
now we live in a farmhouse with
a little bit of little bit of
acreage
so you bought the second house
right around like prior to oh
eight and then sold it right
around COVID time where the real
estate went nuts.
So we sold it in 18. No, no, I
take it back. Sold it in 19. We
bought the the farmhouse in 18,
and we had about a year
of overlap
of where we could because we
renovated. But yeah, it was
right before that. It was it was
peak.
Yeah. So what what
kind of gigs have you had
outside of music? Have you have
you had you know a quote unquote
real job before you? Oh yeah
yeah I mean like most most of us
so
correctional officer you know
graduated not mentioned that
yeah man that
had to be a just a I mean was it
for a men's prison women yeah
oh I couldn't do yeah I couldn't
do a women's prison. I don't.
I've visited. I have visited a
women's prison, and I'm just
like, no, this is. Yeah, I don't
mean any dude should be in.
Yeah, I know. You see, you hear
the story. You see the stuff on
the news that happens with those
situations. You know, I see the
stuff on A.M.E. You know, the
the stuff in these prisons, man.
Was it like maximum succumb? I
mean, were you dealing with a
lot of just really bad people?
No,
my first prison was was was a
level five, which one below
super max, and it was it was
fine. You know, they they they
had them they had them in. You
know, they didn't. They weren't
going to throw an 18-year-old
kid into the to the wolves. So I
mean, I was I was babysitting
grown men that knew their role,
and and they they were in the
mindset of like I'm not going to
do anything to interrupt my
peaceful life that I have
here.
You know, so they they knew how
as long as I treated them with
respect, and they you know it
was a
sore there ever any times where
you felt kind of freaked out or
scared? There was yep
one time a fight broke out like,
and when they fight, it's
yeah brutal. Yeah, nothing to
lose kind of guys. You know,
I mean, they they teach you just
say 1010, and I mean 510 seconds
later, the cert team's in there,
and it's when the cert team
shows up, all is good. All is
good. And then my second prison
that was closer to home was more
of a work camp. Essentially,
they had people driving trucks
and tractors, and and they'd go
out and do their work, and then
they'd come back and go to their
cell like a lot of lot of
trustees is what they called
them, and so that was a job. And
then start I was playing music,
and then I moved to Nashville. I
was a maintenance man at an
apartment complex.
Yeah,
that was my that was my first
job here, and then, like I said,
my wife owned a tanning salon,
so I worked. I cleaned tannin
beds a lot on the the Sprint PCS
store, and so I activated phones
all day. And then, outside of
that, you know, just singing
demos, music stuff, and then now
restaurant owner.
Yeah, very cool.
And that had to be quite a was
it was it did it seemed daunting
to take over like to to become a
restaurant owner.
It didn't because my my whole
plan was just a little old
coffee shop that served a small
menu of food. We never thought
it would turn into what it has
turned into. So, like I, we were
never like scared of it. But I
will say the first couple of
months were were pretty wild
because we we had we were having
to learn on the go and
yeah,
and it was to this day, it's
still like Saturdays. Like on
Saturdays, we can't serve one
more plate.
Oh, it just took off, man. So
you've always just-I mean, you
and your wife just kind of ran
it yourself by by yourselves at
Ohio.
She had a-we had a team.
Yeah. Okay.
Mindy's-that's her. Probably 80%
of her job is is managing
employees, and so we don't have
anybody that's still with us
from day one. But we always have
a good crew.
Yeah, well, that's good because
you hear so many, you know,
business owners say, "Gosh,
finding reliable
help. Oh no, that's the truth.
Yeah, yeah. The you know the the
the perfect employee is a is a
unicorn. You either get somebody
that's really good at what they
do, but just won't show up in
restaurants. What's how many
people you have to go through to
find the
one? You can't. There's there
is no one. Oh,
really? Oh no, it's now. Well,
the
one that meets 75% of the
experts. Okay, so we got yeah.
You get lucky, and and it's
especially like because in our
in our line of work, what we
offer, it's not a career, so to
speak. Like if you want to
better yourself, you know,
there's, you know, is it? Do you
want to just lock yourself down
to 20 $22 an hour gig? But but
then you run into people that
are have have a spouse that
makes a good living that they
just they don't have to work but
they love being around people
and and making drinks and so
that that that's a good employee
yeah and then so yeah it's
so, Johnny. You heard that 2022,
bucks an hour.
Hey, that's more than radio,
man. Maybe we should. Yeah, I
think maybe. Oh gosh,
I mean, did you bring any
applications with you? Yeah, we
made one while we're here. It's
all on. We take
applications all day.
Well, and two, you guys, because
when I heard you were moving,
you were going to open another
one in Shelbyville. I was
thinking back to-I don't know if
you've watched Bar Rescue.
I have a couple of times. Yeah,
John
Taffer got involved with a club
down in Shelbyville, and he was
a little iffy about it because
he said, "You know the, you know
the the median income down here
is not very high, and he said,
"I don't know how well this is.
You see, we're going to have to
really, really adjust the bar to
where these people can afford
it. And I was a little worried
for you guys because I thought,
"Well, Shelbyville is kind of
not putting the town down
because it's a very nice small
town, but." You guys have been,
from what I understand, because
I have not been there yet. But
from what I hear from people, is
that you guys have been
successful down there. It's
always packed. It's always
bringing in people.
Shelbyville gives a lot more
money around there than you
think. Oh yeah. So they have,
but but but at the same time, we
we want to serve everyone. So
yeah, we don't we don't have
fast food prices, and but at the
same token, we don't have Ruth
Chris prices either. Right? You
know what I mean? So yeah, we
you might not be able to come.
You know, there's there's
probably a large amount of the
population in Shelbyville that
can't come to Grindstone Cowboy
every day,
right? They
can visit and have, and we have
a menu that that caters for
budgets. But then there's, but
then we, you know, we'll have
concerts where we're charging
$75, $100 a head. We have Pam
Tillis,
Pam Tillet and sold it,
and it sold out in days. Yeah,
you know, so there, we we have
something for everyone.
Yeah,
and we knew that, and so that's
I feel like that's part of why
we have been successful in
Shelbyville.
Yeah, you have.
Yeah.
So any more expansion plans? I
know you're just you know kind
of getting started in
Shelbyville in one respect, but
I mean, you still eyeballing
some other locations. Yeah, we
got one being built right now.
Supposed to be open in March
down on 38, and so that's that's
exciting.
Yeah,
never thought we'd we'd own a
grindstone cowboy in Florida,
but it's it's coming up pretty
quick. Yeah,
very nice. Well, we just
congratulations. Yeah, we wish
you a lot of
success on that because my wife
and I went to. We've gone a
couple of times to the
Grindstone Cowboy in Eagleville,
and I would stress to any you
know tourist that comes to
Nashville, make the drive down
because you're going to love the
place. Well,
and you know we that was part of
our pitch. We're trying to
trying to get involved with the
Nashville tourism because I feel
like it'd be a great day trip.
There's straight south. You come
through. You hit Arrington
Vineyards. You hit Grindstone
Cowboy. You go them down. You
hit nearest Green Distillery.
Right. Well, we don't know
what's going to happen with
those guys yet, but you can
still 20 minutes from there. We
got Jack Daniels. Oh yeah, it's
all in George Dickel, and so
we're trying to build something
that that when you do come to
Nashville, what do you what are
what's there to do, and we we
want you we want to be on that
list.
Well, and plus, you know, no
offense to Nashville, but
everybody's nicer downing.
Yeah, you know that that's the
whole thing.
It's it's more it's more of what
you're used to where you came
from, and and but but it's got
so much. Well, in fact,
Eagleville itself, you have the
the restaurant that we were just
talking about, Sorelli. Oh man,
that is so good. They
they they they're crushing it
like it's oh they are money down
there, and then and then we got
the Mexican restaurant. That's
I, you know, I travel. Yeah, Las
Fies, Las Fies, and I travel all
over the place. And I'm not
saying it because it's ours, but
it's one of the best Mexican
restaurants I've I've ever been
to. In fact, that's
the first time that my wife and
I had dinner with Trace and his
wife. Oh, is that Las Fies? Was
a quick funny story when when we
moved to Eagleville, my wife was
so excited about that house that
we bought was walking distance
to Mexican restaurant. She was
so excited to be able to just
walk down and have a margarita.
Oh yeah!
And come to find out, 2005,
Eagleville was a dry city.
Oh man! I mean, they
didn't have nothing, no beer, no
nothing, and so, but we we had
bought the house before we ever
knew that.
So is that why you became a
councilman? Well, it slowly it
slowly changed itself. Like they
got a
beer license and then slowly got
liquor by the drink, and and so
yeah. But but one of the reasons
she loved Eagleville was that
Mexican restaurant and having a
margarita, but then come to find
out it was not even.
Oh man! Well, you know, we've
been talking about taking the
podcast on the road. It sounds
like Grindstone Cowboy might be
my opinion. It would be
awesome. Yeah,
we've been wanting to, and and
we've got some some ideas about
doing the podcast live
streaming.
Yeah, and podcast. I've thought
about doing not not me doing a
podcast, but having someone come
do a podcast at either
Eagleville or Shelbyville, but
even like pumping it into the
system so people in the audience
can listen to what you guys are
talking about. Yeah, I think
that'd be awesome. So maybe we
need to go to Shelbyville. Yeah,
because the Shelbyville. Yeah,
yeah,
because it's bigger.
The
stage is bigger, and the the
facilities, as far as PA and
production, are there. Yeah. So
yeah. So so you're a councilman
now. Do you have any aspirations
for political office at all?
None. You don't want to go down
that route. I saw
that look of terror. Yeah.
It was like no, there's too many
skeletons in my closet.
No, I'm you know selfishly I was
I love Eagleville. I do want to
I do want what's best for
Eagleville, but I was I was more
in like interested in keeping
keeping my eye on the ball with
with what's happening in
Eagleville as it pertains to
grindstone. Yeah, and in in you
know it all works together. But
now Eagleville is about to do
some really cool things, and
that I that I see coming down
the pipe, and and now I'm like,
okay, I want to be a part of
that, and so I want to help make
that happen. So
yeah, Eagleville, it's it's
really starting to remind me of
kind of like a small Gatlinburg,
so to speak. Really? Yeah,
because because it's starting to
get like they close off, which I
love. Was it like the first
Friday?
Well, we did last year. This
year, we they didn't do it
because it became. There was one
lady that was running the whole
thing, and she just got
overwhelmed, and and and bless
her heart, there was just no
couldn't get commitment from
other people to help.
Oh man, that's sad. I thought
that was because that was great.
Oh, it was. I mean, it was like
a you know a little festive. She
worked her butt off, and it was.
I felt bad, but I couldn't
commit either because that's
when I travel is on Fridays and
Saturdays, so I was never there.
But yeah, it was. She just said,
"Hey, I'm, I'm, I can't do it
anymore. So we we paused it for
this year. Hopefully, we'll
bring it back next year.
You know, Craig, the we talk a
lot here on the podcast with
artists such as yourself about
the state of today's music and
radio and labels and all that. I
mean, you know, AI and online
streaming and such. I mean, you
know, you've you've been through
the wars and have seen this
transition from you know the
early 2000s to you know what
we're dealing with today. Are
you optimistic about the status
of country music and radio and
getting your music out there and
such? What What's your feeling
on that?
I don't. I can't say I'm optim
or I'm optimistic. It's the
wild, wild west. It's nobody
knows what's going on,
especially with the AI stuff. I
feel like since I came on the
scene in 2010, that it has
changed so fast from this to
this lightning speed.
So, like even when I signed my
record deal, it was still album
based. So you would put a song
on the radio, and then you would
try to time it out to where you
know it was going to peak when
it when that song peaked, that's
when you dropped your album,
right? And then you try to have
those first that first week
album sales was so important,
and within just a couple of
years, it's kind of albums were
like not the focus. It was more
single song downloads, like
downloading it at $1.29 a pop.
So then that's that was the big
deal. And then just a few years
after that, it was that wasn't
imported anymore. It's now it's
streaming,
streaming.
And this all happened within 10
years. Well, I don't know what's
going. I don't know what's
what's coming down the pipe.
Well, you know, you mentioned
you know, heck, you did all
those demos. I mean, hell, demo
singers and all that. You don't
need that now. Go to Suno and
it's frustrating. Yeah,
it's. I I feel bad for some of
the some of the musicians
because they made a really.
That's how they that's how they
paid their bills. We're seeing
we're playing on these demos
now. I mean, you can throw your
lyrics into Suno and and get a
demo back in 45 seconds, and I'm
guilty of it. I do it. I get I
do it more of a of a reference
type type situation. Like, hey,
what? Just get some ideas. But
I, as far as just the the
musicians that are getting work
taken off of their off of the,
because at the risk of sounding
hypocritical, I still feel like
the musicians are are getting
taken advantage of. But at the
same time, if you get a guy that
or anybody that's moving to
Nashville that has a has a
desire to to To write songs and
and they have it in their heart,
but they're broke, and they you
know they write a song with so
and so two other co-writers that
have publishing deals, and then
they don't, or they write a song
by themselves that they don't
have a publishing deal. They got
a they don't have $3,500 to demo
a song, or 2000 you know, so
Suno is is helping them. It's a
good thing for them.
Yeah,
I just, I just, I fear that that
Suno is also creating a false
sense of creativity. I think
people are people are throwing
ideas up into Suno, and then
they're spitting out lyrics and.
And so then now that person
thinks they're a songwriter.
Yeah, you know when I use it,
I'm it's a complete lyric and
it's a complete worktape. You
know, and I don't. I just I'm
getting production ideas, but so
who knows what's? I don't know.
Yeah, I think the
romanticizing of the past can be
problematic for any creative
industry. Certainly, we've seen
it in radio. Yes, instead of
embracing the pivoting of
technology, technology is a
freight train that's coming down
the tracks. Doesn't care who's
standing. 100%
And when you have AI, and a lot
of the new business model seems
to be going this way. We've
brought it up in the past, where
you're able to conjure up an
avatar of an artist, create an
entire album and then throw it
up on Spotify and see what
happens. That's becoming a
business model now. Yeah, and a
lot of the people outside of the
business. One one person in
particular said, "Then that's
the business I would get into.
That's the way it's moving.
You you you definitely need to
get on it. Get on the train.
Like you said, it's coming.
Yep.
The the one thing that that that
woke me up really about how what
AI and because we're we're still
in the infancy stage of all
that, but when I realized that
that the big DSPs are creating
their own music,
yep,
AI, and then they're placing
that music at the top of the
playlists. That's frustrating.
You can't compete with that. You
can't. Nobody, you know, unless
you get into bed with them on on
like like the record labels
have, and it's just it's tough.
It's.
I think the only way you can
combat that is a really rocking
live show. Yeah. You know, you
make sure that you've got a
social media strategy and plan
that's just a you got to get
people to the show. Yeah,
onslaught of just this is human
music,
right? Yeah, I don't think
you'll ever replace that.
No,
don't the the and I say that,
and then I immediately think,
well, don't say never because
you know there's some of these
kids that are listening to music
now-they don't even, you know.
You go to let's just, for
instance, you go to a Taylor
Swift concert and you're you're
in the nosebleeds and you look
way down there and Taylor's this
tall.
Yeah,
like how do you know she's real?
Well, that's what bothers me
about music today, especially
concerts. They are so overly
expensive that I remember when I
was coming up, and a lot of
musicians that have come up, you
know, they they could afford to
go to the shows. They weren't
that expensive,
eight bucks. But now, but now,
you know,
I mean, Eddie Van Halen coming
up, you know, he he he was not
rich. The guy was poor. Yeah,
but yet he got to go into a a
cream concert, and and you know,
and then get exposure. Yeah, and
and it bothers me that there may
be a lot of future musicians
that are not getting as as close
of a view that that could
inspire them. Yeah,
it's it's pretty wild.
The flip side of that, though,
to counter that, over time, I
think it'll make music more
special because when you have
less people that are trying to
do it, it it makes it more
special.
Yes, you know what I mean. Yeah.
When there's a glut of or a an
absence, a vacuum of talent, the
talented ones are going to be
really obvious.
Yeah, that's true. Speaking of,
are there any new artists in
country music that have blown
you away, or that that you?
What are you listening to?
Anything? Yeah,
I mean,
not to put you on the spot. No,
I mean,
I'm just hopping on the
bandwagon for a minute. I'm,
I'm, I think Zach Top. I think
he's the real deal.
Everybody, everybody sees him.
Everybody brings it. Well,
everybody we talk to here in the
podcast mentions him. I mean,
I'm hopeful that perhaps he's
helping swing that pendulum back
to the traditional side.
But I say that because I've been
around him and we've done shows
together. He is the real deal.
What you see, he's not
pretending. All them songs, the
the traditional like. There's a
video that I posted a couple
years ago. Me and him, we were
in a back back green room, and I
hopped on the piano and I
started playing this Ronnie
Millsap song. Just didn't tell
him, and he turns around says,
"Yeah, oh yeah, and then he
starts just starts singing it.
It's like so. He is that guy,
and that's that's what I'm proud
of. He's there is some
fabricated music that that has
crossed our airwaves in the last
five or so years. He is not that
guy. He he's the real deal,
yeah.
And so he's one of them, Jake
Worthington. I think he's
awesome.
Are you on the Ella Langley
band? I mean,
I love the fact that she, when
you hear her voice, she's
unique.
You know, it's her.
You can pick it out. Yep.
Yes. I
think my and I deal with this
because my daughter Press. She's
she's diving into the music and
and I so I've and my wife is a
is a great singer. I always was
more critical of girl singers
than I was guy singers, but it
just seemed like girls were
trying to if they loved somebody
as an as growing up they would
and they wanted to be a singer
they would always try to emulate
that person, but Ella, she's
she's she's her own thing. Yeah,
and I'm that's that means a lot,
and and I'm I think she's great,
and and on top of that, I I know
a lot of people that have been
around her through the through
the years. She's paid her dues,
and that means a lot to me too.
These overnight successes, I
will never say, "Hey, your. I'll
never talk down to somebody, no
matter what their path was. But
there's just a bit of respect
when I know that they've worked
hard.
Yeah, yeah. She went through the
clubs and yeah,
yeah. She's still only 27 years
old. Oh, I know. You know, still
a very young woman. So, what
what kind of gigs do you enjoy?
I know most artists. It doesn't
matter. They'll play in
somebody's front yard. They just
love to perform. But I mean, are
there certain kind of gigs that
really, really turn you on?
Yeah. I mean, last night played
played the Red Wheel up at the
factory, and oh yeah. So that
was pretty cool. I love the the
songwriter rounds.
Yeah, the intimacy.
Yeah, I love theaters. I love
being able to sit and and talk
to the audience sometimes. But
then I also love to to turn
everything to 11 and melt faces
and and so like that's tonight.
I'm playing tonight at at
Grindstone Shelbyville. All
right, and then Monday night I'm
playing Grindstone Eagleville,
where I do a monthly '90s
country show. So, oh wow,
very cool. So, looking back at
your live performances, is there
one that really sticks with you?
Like, wow, I can't believe I'm
here. I can't believe we're
playing this place, or I'm
playing. I'm on the bill with
this person. I mean, is there
one that kind of really sticks
out for you? There's a couple.
Yeah,
I remember doing a charity event
with Alan Jackson at the Ryman.
Ah, wow!
And I had-I think I had played
the Ryman before, but you know,
you you you go in and do your
operation spot, two songs, three
songs, whatever. But this was a
full 45 minute set with my band
on the rhyming stage, opening
for Alan Jackson. So that was,
and it was for a colorectal
cancer event. I do remember
that, but yeah, that was that
was pretty cool. Yeah, that
sounds special.
Well, man, just keep it up
because we think the world of
you. We love your music.
I appreciate it,
and we love Grindstone Cowboy,
don't keep keep those going,
baby.
I am the foot is on the gas.
Still music, still I still put
music out on a pretty regular
basis. I still love it. I feel
like I'm as my voice. I feel
like my voice is as good as it's
ever been in the studio, and so
yeah. I mean, people ask us
like, you know, where do you see
yourself in X amount of years? I
said, you know, I just hope I'm
still doing it.
Well, don't give up on the
number one. I think it still, I
think it could still happen
myself. So,
if folks want to come see you or
any show at Grindstone Cowboy,
when does the music normally
kick off? What time? So
we don't typically have music on
Fridays, but this is a an
anomaly. Well, three or four
times a year, there's a fifth
Friday.
Yeah, yeah. So we do we
do music on the fifth Fridays,
and I didn't have anybody
booked. I've dropped the ball,
and and I said, well, I'll do
it. I happen to be off, so we'll
we're gonna we're gonna go down
and and do turn it on.
Well, that's a great place to
play. Shelbyville is a great
town.
Yeah,
yeah. So it starts what seven
ish, eight or what? So
music usually on Saturdays
usually starts at six, but
tonight we're starting at seven.
Yeah, yeah.
All right, very cool. Just keep
it
up. Get there.
Craig campbell.com, correct?
Craig campbell.tv.
TV.
Yeah. Yes, I noticed that when I
was looking at a fellow out on
the East Coast as a realtor.
He's got CraigCampbell.com, and
he would never give it up.
Well, that's when you send Trace
out there, right? So yeah,
CraigCampbell TV,
and then all of my socials are
Craig Campbell TVs. Well,
please check it out. Like I
said, also anybody that's coming
to Nashville, make the drive
down to Eagleville or
Shelbyville, or both. Pretty
areas, hit both,
beautiful areas. Well,
Jay, tell the folks where they
can catch circling the drain.
You
betcha. Of course, all of the
social media platforms on
Facebook. Our more than 22,000
followers can continue to find
us here on Facebook. Of course,
we've got the YouTube channel X,
and of course all the typical
audio platforms. And of course,
there's always circlingthe
drain.net.
And also, you can check Jay out
on his podcast, which is Game
Time. And he also,
yeah, I mean, it's not a.
Podcast, but I mean it's you
know the the live streaming of
sports that there you go yeah
got got that really firing up
here again now that the summer's
coming to a close
and you also have the fishing
one yeah no I mean
we're doing fishing tournaments
man you
do so much and then you can also
hear him on TN yeah on WSM WSM
yeah Westwood won. Just don't
know when. So lazy. I know. I
don't know when to quit. And the
same with Jim. Jim, man, Jim.
Yeah, man. How many podcasts you
work on now, Jim? Ah,
probably 13 or 14.
Good gosh.
Yeah,
yeah.
And you can see me. I'm down in
Eagleville. I'm usually, you
know, yeah, on the
corner with a sign. Yeah, yeah.
Guitar playing with the hat by
there. I'm busking.
But join us. Join us. And thanks
again once to Craig Campbell,
man. Appreciate him coming. Glad
to be
here. Thanks for the invite.
Enjoyed it.
Well, we'd love to have you
back.
Say when. All
right. Well, listen. We'll join
you next time on Circling the
Drake.