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A podcast from Teachers College, Columbia University about play and pop culture. Professors Haeny Yoon and Nathan Holbert take play seriously. They talk with educators, parents and kids about how they play in their work and their lives, and why play matters.
The views expressed in this podcast are solely those of the speaker to whom they are attributed. They do not necessarily reflect the views of the faculty, administration, staff or Trustees either of Teachers College or of Columbia University.
Haeny:
Okay folks, we're back. We're talking Star Wars again. Why do we keep talking about Star Wars?
Nathan:
I don't understand why you think we need a reason other than laser swords to keep talking about Star Wars.
Haeny:
Oh, exactly. Exactly.
Nathan:
I mean, Star Wars perfectly represents the intersections of all the things that we seem to care about on this show, right? It's playful. It's about as popular as popular culture you can possibly get. It exists across all different forms of media. You got your games, you got your movies, you got your TV shows.
If that wasn't enough, it's extremely intergenerational, which is exactly what this season's topic is about. I feel like it fits nicely, right?
Haeny:
Yeah, it's almost way too perfect.
I feel like in the 40 plus years, every generation probably has gotten some kind of contact with Star Wars. Everybody has a different entry point or a way that they've encountered Star Wars. It's like the gift that keeps on giving and the... Its like transcends time and space. I've said that once before, and I think you made fun of me. But for this, it's true.
Nathan:
Yeah. Well, I mean that sounds more like Dr. Who, transcending time and space. This is just transcends space. But yeah, basically the same thing.
Haeny:
Okay, got it. Okay.
But I think this week we're also interested in overzealous parents [ahem] that try to indoctrinate and acculturate their kids into Star Wars lore.
Nathan:
I feel attacked, but fair enough. I definitely, probably fit that description. I would say.
I'm one of these overzealous parents that really wanted my kids to experience Star Wars, in the "proper way" as us nerds often would say.
Haeny:
What is the proper way?
Nathan:
Well, there's some debate about this. But I was serious about this. I wanted my kids to experience the original trilogy first. And as you mentioned, it keeps coming back. And so this original trilogy that I was familiar with when I was a kid got re-released in the '90s by George Lucas in the movie theaters. He added all this extra CGI and all these extra scenes that just... If you've seen that version, it's just weird. I had to hunt. I had to hunt to find the perfect version of Star Wars to show my kids, and naturally they didn't care. But I felt like I had done the work that I needed to do to do this right.
Haeny:
Did they like it?
Nathan:
Yeah, they loved it. They liked it right away when they were little. They still like it.
Haeny:
So you successfully indoctrinated them?
Nathan:
They're successfully indoctrinated. I don't think they like it quite as much as I do. If they have a choice between Star Wars and something like Pokemon, they're going to choose Pokemon every time.
Haeny:
Yeah, got it.
Nathan:
In my opinion.
Haeny:
Okay. How about if we rewind?
Nathan:
Okay, let's rewind.
Haeny:
To childhood. Okay, so you just shared with us a lovely story of how you basically told your kids they have to like Star Wars and-
Nathan:
Yep, success.
Haeny:
... gave them a whole vision and prescriptive way to enter. I'm wondering how you decided. What's your first memory of Star Wars? Or maybe what your favorite, like what is the thing that sticks out to you?
Nathan:
What I definitely remember doing is watching Star Wars nearly every day when I was a kid. I had VHS tapes that we had recorded the first movie, A New Hope, and the second movie, Empire Strikes Back, from TV to VHS tapes. And so if you are of a certain era like I am, that was a thing. Instead of buying all your movies or streaming all your movies, you had to wait until it came on TV. You hit record and try to capture it. Well, whoever it was who did that recording for me, they were late to the TV. They didn't start the recording until 15 minutes into the movie.
And so honestly, I watched Star Wars probably every day from, I don't know, let's say 8 to 12 years old or something. And I had never seen the first 15 minutes of either A New Hope or of Empire Strikes Back. And I happened to catch Empire Strikes Back once on TV from the beginning and I was like "What the..." There's like a whole story before I've seen this movie. There's like this whole thing where Luke gets lost in a snowstorm. He gets in a fight with a monster, and there's a whole thing. I had never seen that before.
So that's my earliest memory is watching it constantly and then eventually realizing that I was missing a part of this thing that I loved dearly, which was an exciting discovery that there was more of it.
Haeny:
I mean, I feel like that's a general theme when I'm watching Star Wars because I feel like I'm missing something. I feel like I missed the first 15 minutes of every single one that I've watched. And then I'm like, "What is happening here? I don't really quite understand. Does not compute."
Nathan:
Does not compute. You're like a droid.
Haeny:
But I just realized that I have an early memory of Star Wars, actually. Because when I asked you what your first memory of Star Wars is, it actually activated something for me.
Nathan:
Oh, yeah. What's yours, yeah?
Haeny:
So one of my first Halloween costumes, I was Yoda. It was pretty great. I was the same height as Yoda and going all over the place trick or treating. It was a good time.
Nathan:
That's good. That's a good memory. That resonates I think with me as well.
Haeny:
I feel like I got into Star Wars pretty late in the game. I can't even say I got into Star Wars because frankly I know very little still.
Nathan:
You're still not into it.
Haeny:
Yeah. I feel like the reason why I started to really appreciate it more was because the research that I was doing in classrooms, the kids were so into it.
I think part of understanding kids and the things that really matter to them means to understand the things that matter to them. And so yeah, go figure.
Nathan:
What an idea.
Haeny:
There's an idea for all of you. But I was sitting with one of the kids in kindergarten. And basically every time I would go in there, he would go on this 40 minute thing about Star Wars. I felt like every class session he would come up to me, and I think he would make it his job to educate me on Star Wars because I really didn't know that much. And I realized when I talked about it with him, I couldn't talk about it intelligibly because I didn't know what he was asking me. And so I think I made it part of my mission to just understand it fully.
But I think one of the things I really appreciated about it, about that experience, was how much that meant to him and how much that experience with Star Wars, especially someone who was always trying to be included in a classroom space. He used that as a way to include himself, to create friendships, to create bonds. And so I have this great drawing that he made that his mom shared with me. It's basically this framed art that they have of him and his grandfather, who he didn't meet but recently passed away. Or didn't have a memory of but passed away, and they're in a Star Destroyer together. He's holding this X-wing flyer, and they're just going into the galaxy, right?
Nathan:
Wow.
Haeny:
And it was like she was just telling me what a beautiful touching moment it was because here's she's just recently dealing with the loss of her father. He's like making this picture of him and his Pop-Pop, you know, that's what he calls him, on a Star Destroyer. And I was like, it's so meaningful, right? And I think it just reminds me of how things that kids play with, our engagement with pop culture is a lot more than just these materials or things or whatever they are. It's a connecting point for all of us.
Nathan:
Wow, yeah. And connecting even to generations across experience, across being able to actually be there together. That's really cool.
Haeny:
Yeah, and I feel like he really brought me up to speed.
Nathan:
What a great example also though of you being an excellent scholar, and just also an excellent person to try to understand this domain that you were studying and really make an effort to take seriously the things that these kids valued.
Haeny:
In that vein, I think we should turn our attention to some experts.
Nathan:
Yeah because you need a lot of help for sure.
Haeny:
Yes.
Nathan:
So this week we have three excellent guests with us. We have Zia, Sam, and Gabe. Zia and Sam are siblings, and their parents are close friends of mine for many years. And likewise, Gabe's father is a former guest on the pod, Mike Dando, who is also an old friend. This'll be a lot of fun talking with them about their experiences with Star Wars, with their experience growing up with Star Wars, and how it's really shaped in many ways about who they are today.
Haeny:
So, for people like me new to the Star Wars universe, we asked one of our guests, Gabe, to fill us in on some essential Star Wars lore and vocabulary. Hope it helps.
[dramatic music]
Gabe:
Okay, so first of all, Star Wars is really big and complicated. So, if you're a Star Wars youngling like Haeny, I'm here to help you with the basics.
First, the Force is a mysterious energy that is really central to the galaxy and the characters use to do magical things, like move stuff and control minds. The Force, like all power, can both be harnessed for good or used to do bad things. You'll hear us say Sith, which refers to bad guys that use the Force to gain power.
Unless you grew up in a wampa cave, you know what a lightsaber is. Lightsabers come in different colors, hilts and other stuff, so what you really need to know is no lightsaber is the same.
And finally, family matters a lot in Star Wars. Every character seems to be a mother, father, or sibling to some other character.
So let's review. Star Wars characters use the force to battle across the galaxy with lightsabers. Some are good, some are bad, some are somewhere in the middle. These battles are usually about power, generational trauma, and personal beefs.
Choices matter in Star Wars. The wide universe of movies, shows, comics, and toys are about how unique and divergent our paths can be. And that, my Padawan, is Star Wars. With this knowledge, enjoy the episode you will. May the force be with you.
[dramatic music fades out]
Haeny:
We're going to start with introduction. So Nathan, you want to introduce us to our guests?
Nathan:
Yeah, we have with us today three excellent, very exciting guests. We have Zia, Sam, and Gabe, and I would like to introduce each of them using an introduction written by your fathers.
Okay, so here you go.
Haeny:
They're so shocked.
Nathan:
Zia Massena is the firstborn child of John and Mary Massena. Zia's Force powers began to manifest early. As a young child, they could be found wielding a lightsaber while wearing a Sleeping Beauty dress and yelling Elven curse words at the neighbor kids. They are one of the two half-blood Elven Druids in the Pathfinder campaign that they've been playing with their father and best bud since second grade. Zia enjoys cats, Horizon Zero Dawn, and hates roller coasters.
Haeny:
For the record, I only understood 75% of that.
Zia:
Wow.
Sam:
That was really accurate, though.
Zia:
That outed me. Thanks, Dad.
Gabe:
The thing that caught my ear was Elven swear words.
Nathan:
Yeah, Elven swear words.
Zia:
I will not be saying that on this podcast.
Nathan:
You could have used that for the introduction.
All right. Samantha Massena is second born of the Massena-Rittenger clan. Sam studies Japanese and pre-med at the University of Montana. She wields a green lightsaber, belongs to Slytherin House, and has a wiki-like brain for anime.
Sam has played a Dragonblood Sorcerer in the family Pathfinder campaign since she was six, and isn't happy unless she rushes into melee combat and burns through all 12 of her hit points. This takes exactly two rounds in every single battle.
Sam loves volleyball anime, ice skating anime, fairy tale anime, Avatar: The Last Airbender, Demon Slayer, the Gilmore Girls, and baking apple pies.
Haeny:
How does Gilmore Girls come into this anime trend?
Sam:
Hey, I do love Gilmore Girls with an unhealthy obsession.
Haeny:
Did you watch the reboot?
Zia:
Star Wars and Gilmore Girls.
Sam:
Yes. Yes, I did watch the reboot.
Haeny:
So did I.
Sam:
I was mad with it.
Haeny:
So did I. I was kind of mad with it too, but I wasn't unhappy about it either.
Nathan:
All right, and last but certainly not least, we have Gabe Norton-Dando, who loves reading, especially Dog Man and Captain Underpants. They love role playing games like D&D and also singing in choir. They love to dance and can speak and read Chinese, and can't get enough of comic book conventions.
Haeny:
Woo.
Sam:
That's awesome.
Gabe:
I love comics.
Sam:
Me too.
Haeny:
That also feels like indoctrination from his father.
Nathan:
It might have something to do with that.
Sam:
There's a bit of a play there. Isn't there all indoctrination of our fathers?
Haeny:
That is the theme of this episode, actually.
Nathan:
That's basically what this is all about.
Sam:
That's awesome.
Nathan:
Yeah, so for real, I'm super excited to have all three of you here today. We like to start each episode with a bit of a game. I'm basically going to kind of give you a couple different questions and we want you to respond with the first thing that comes to mind. That sound good?
Sam:
You got it.
Zia:
Sounds great.
Gabe:
Okay.
Haeny:
And they're all related to Star Wars.
Nathan:
They're all Star Wars related, yeah.
Zia:
Perfect.
Nathan:
We'll start with an easy one. Which force power would you choose? So you could do things like moving things with your mind. You could do the Jedi mind trick. You guys know all the Force powers. Tell me which force power would you choose if you could just choose one.
Sam:
I'll go first. I know this is going to be a little Sith of me, but I would choke people out.
Haeny:
Why are you saying-
Sam:
I feel like it would be useful. I feel like I wouldn't have to worry about self-defense and someone who's in pre-law or pre-med. Sorry, not who am I? Someone who's pre-med it's like... I don't know. I feel like it would be effective. I want to know how it works anatomy wise as well.
Haeny:
I respect that. I respect that.
Nathan:
Yeah.
Haeny:
There is actually a book in my house, that does not belong to me, that is called something about the art of the triangle choke.
Sam:
That's awesome.
Gabe:
I'll go next.
Haeny:
Go ahead, Gabe.
Gabe:
I would definitely want to be a force ghost so I could live forever and do pretty much whatever I want.
Nathan:
Oh, nice.
Sam:
That's awesome.
Nathan:
Force Ghost.
Gabe:
Yes.
Nathan:
Yeah, so you could hang out, say hi to all your friends even after you're gone. Nice. I like that.
Zia:
I like it, Gabe.
Sam:
That was awesome.
Nathan:
What about you, Zia?
Zia:
Honestly, I think I'm going to go the opposite of Sam. So, I would want to use Force healing in a way, trading my own life Force for others or just helping other people. I really-
Sam:
I knew you were going to say-
Zia:
Yeah, I think I would just like to help people a little bit. I find the other ones a little bit too, I don't know. A lot of the other powers are very violent, and I feel a little guilty about levitating a rock and accidentally hitting someone. I'd probably cry.
Nathan:
You got to be careful when you levitate the rock. You got to make sure you levitate in a safe space.
Zia:
Dude, that's intense.
Gabe:
If I was Kylo before he turned into Kylo, I would lift a boulder. If I started to turn to the Dark Side, probably I would lift a boulder and drop it on someone's head, so yes.
Zia:
Geez.
Nathan:
I better make sure-
Sam:
Seems like something Kylo would do.
Nathan:
Better make sure Gabe doesn't get that.
Gabe:
Well, I mean I do like being evil and drawing super villains, so why not?
Haeny:
Why not?
Sam:
Gabe, would you be on the Sith's side?
Gabe:
Maybe, maybe not.
Haeny:
Which would you choose, Nathan?
Nathan:
Which Force power would I choose? Oh, I would 100% choose the ability to move things with my mind.
But not because I want to throw rocks, but because when I see cars parked on the sides of the street and there's too much space between them, I would want to be able to move the cars and nudge them closer together to make additional parking spaces. It's a very practical skill, I feel like.
Sam:
That's a wonderful idea.
Zia:
I need that in the city.
Sam:
Wow.
Haeny:
See? They get it.
Zia:
I might have to take back my answer.
Gabe:
Oh, my gosh.
Also, you pretty much have every power if you're a forced ghost.
Zia:
I mean... I think that's cheating if you have every power.
Nathan:
Gabe found a loophole. I love it. [maniacal lafter from Gabe]
Oh, well this is a good segue into the next question I have, which is, what color is your lightsaber?
Sam:
Oh, well, I think ours got spoiled because mine's green.
Nathan:
Yours did, yeah.
Gabe:
Mine would definitely be white. No. No, no, no, no. Purple.
Zia:
Why?
Gabe:
But you know how some handles have that claw around the saber?
Nathan:
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Gabe:
I would be able to click a button on the bottom and I could shape it however ever I wanted it so it could turn into a helicopter. I could fly around.
Nathan:
What?
Sam:
Helicopter lightsaber. That's awesome.
Nathan:
I mean, Force ghosts, they can do anything.
Gabe:
Pretty much.
Zia:
I feel like you're picking all the answers just so you can win any fight, man. [more maniacal laughter fro Gabe.]
Nathan:
Okay, so we had green. We had purple helicopter. Zia, what about you?
Gabe:
Stop it, Nathan. It's just purple.
Nathan:
Just purple? Okay. Okay. Sorry, sorry, sorry.
Haeny:
Exactly. I don't know what you're trying to do here, Nathan.
Zia:
I think I would personally have to pick yellow. Yellow's my favorite color. I know a lot of them represent certain aspects of the Force.
Nathan:
Do you guys know what they represent?
Zia:
Not off the top of my head. I used to have this memorized as a kid. I could spew it off like that.
Sam:
I picked green whenever we made lightsabers because I'm just in love with Obi-Wan Kenobi. That's it. He's just too good.
Nathan:
Understandably.
Zia:
For context, we went to Disney World with our dad and we got to do a Make your Lightsaber experience. It was really cool.
Sam picked green, and I actually picked purple that time because I like Mace Windu. And I also like how the actor himself decided to just have a purple lightsaber and everyone was like, "Okay, this is lore now."
Nathan:
They were like, what, are you going to say no to Samuel L. Jackson? No.
Zia:
You can't.
Nathan:
Purple lightsaber. That's a thing now.
Haeny:
It's like the only factoid I know about Star Wars, and you just totally took me it from me.
Gabe:
I have something.
Zia:
I'm sorry.
Gabe:
I have something, guys.
Haeny:
Yeah?
Nathan:
Yeah, what's up?
Gabe:
I was scared of Star Wars at first. When I was three. I didn't even want to watch it. I wanted to watch it when I was 10, and now I'm nine and I've watched three of them.
Haeny:
Oh, yeah?
Nathan:
Oh, wow.
Sam:
That's awesome.
Haeny:
Nice.
Nathan:
I think you guys made a nice segue here. How did you get introduced to it? Is there a particular movie or maybe a toy or something that introduced you to this whole world? What was the start?
Sam:
I have a good one for this. I always remember Star Wars being in our house. I'll be honest, I don't remember a time in my life where I didn't know about it.
I remember though, the most prevalent Star Wars memory I had was Dad had just gotten the Death Star Lego set for Christmas. He had built the whole thing, and it had taken him forever. While he was at work, I accidentally was messing around in the office where I shouldn't have been, and I knocked over the entire thing. It just shattered.
Zia:
I remember this.
Sam:
And so the whole day, I waited for him to come home. I was just crying.
Nathan:
Oh, no.
Sam:
I was freaking out and I was like, "Oh my gosh, he loves Star Wars so much." And then he comes home and he can tell something's wrong because I'm pretty young. He can tell.
I'm like, "Daddy, I'm so sorry. I broke the Death Star." He walks in, and I don't see his face. He walks in the office and he's silent. I'm just like, "This is the end of my life. I'm going to die right here, right now."
Then he turns around and he's like, "That's okay, Sammy. The best part about Legos and Star Wars is you get to rebuild it and rewatch it." Then we rewatched Star Wars while we rebuilt The Death Star. It was fun.
Nathan:
Oh.
Haeny:
That is lovely. That is a great story.
Nathan:
That's good.
Zia, how about you? What was your introduction?
Zia:
I think it's a little different than Sam's just because I was first. I mean, I guess I agree. I don't remember a time exactly when I was first introduced because I was really little.
But I remember distinctly one of my first childhood memories is I'm sitting and I'm watching... There's the rancor scene where Luke falls into the pit. The rancor is waiting, and he is going to get him. I didn't get to see that scene until I was maybe 10 or 11 because my dad would always skip it-
Nathan:
Skip that.
Zia:
Because the first time that I had tried to watch it, I freaked out. I was so scared of the rancor.
Sam:
I remember this.
Zia:
I would cry every time the rancor died. I guess Star Wars and a little bit of fear are my first memories.
Nathan:
It seems like there's a common thread here though, with all three of you like there, there's a little fear. There's also early memory and this Lego connection.
Haeny:
Oh, totally. The Lego connection's huge. Yeah, so I have a question. So Star Wars, obviously, it sounds like you all engaged with the movie and had your parents help you navigate that. Did you go outside of the universe of Star Wars movies to engage in it? What toys, artifacts like books? Did you go to conventions? What are other Star Wars lore that you engaged with?
Sam:
Oh, I've got a good one.
Zia:
We've all been to a convention together, actually. All three of-
Sam:
Yeah, we all went together. I was R2D2.
Haeny:
What?
Zia:
I was Chewbacca.
Haeny:
What, tell me-
Zia:
Gabe, do you remember when you were Rey at Comic-Con?
Gabe:
Yes, yes.
Nathan:
Oh, that's so awesome.
Gabe:
The older action figures I think are weirder than the newer ones.
Nathan:
Oh, yeah.
Zia:
I would have to disagree. I like the older ones. My dad has-
Gabe:
The sets are amazing. Just the face, I don't get it.
Zia:
I think the toys have developed better to look more like the actors. But my dad used to have these action figures of Luke, Leia, Chewbacca and Han Solo. Some more original sets, things like that, from when he was a kid. I think I played with those a lot. I actually broke the Han Solo one, I believe.
Nathan:
Oh, no.
Sam:
Yeah, you did.
Zia:
I don't think he was very happy about that one.
Haeny:
I feel like the show just turned into a confessional of Zia and Sam talking things they destroyed.
Nathan:
It really has. We can also compare the response-
Zia:
Our dad knows. He knows we're very-
Gabe:
[inaudible]
Zia:
... chaotic.
Nathan:
You're hitting on a really important feature, I guess, of Star Wars, which is the family relationships. Why do you guys think that this is such a core part of Star Wars?
Zia:
I think it's important to connect with people. For one, just the idea of family has always been around in a way, and it's the main plot line of most of the story.
I mean, there's all that cool fighting and the lightsabers and Force and space and magic and all that fun stuff. But at the core, it's about a father who did some really bad stuff and his children trying to make up for that. Luke really battles with that because it's like, is this dark part of my father inherently within me? Luke's pretty dramatic throughout all the movies. He's definitely a crybaby. And then Leia's just like this hard-
Nathan:
Yeah.
Zia:
She's a dominant person, so she takes over a lot and just leads away. Luke's just running off on his own, causing more drama.
Nathan:
Whining, yeah.
Zia:
He wins the fights in the end, but I think he definitely needed a lot of help to get there.
Nathan:
Don't we all? Yeah, I find the parent and sibling relationships really interesting in it. And the fact that in the new trilogy, there's a lot about Ben Solo and his relationship with his parents and then his relationship with Rey, which becomes something of a sibling relationship. Yeah.
Zia:
Yeah, it's definitely a weird cycle because in the prequels we get this context of Anakin was raised lightly in his childhood by his mom, but then was separated from her. And then Anakin and Padme have Luke and Leia, but Anakin is separated from them. Then Luke and Leia, they get older. Luke doesn't have any children, but Leia has Ben. But eventually when Ben shows signs of the Force, he's separated from Leia and given to Luke. And it's this whole cycle of just like you see a pattern happening with people, and we see that with Rey too.
Sam:
It's generational trauma. Yeah, I guess when you think about it, Anakin, his rage, and it's crazy. That carries through genetically, but also just the way that you're born and raised and the way that you treat your children carries on. Because if that's the only thing they know with parenting, that's the only thing they're going to pass. So, with Anakin and then with Leia and then with everybody else, but yeah. Especially because Anakin, he gains this original trauma because of the death of his mother, and then I feel like it just carries over, even just maybe even in the Force.
Haeny:
I mean, I think that's such a great point, Sam, because this whole time, and during this season, we've been talking about intergenerational relationships. Usually in a positive light, just how people cultivate these relationships, kids, parents across generations. But then also those are also really complicated and not always happy and not always connected. And so there's sometimes tensions and conflicts that happen between generations, too.
Sam:
Yeah, definitely.
Haeny:
Yeah.
Zia:
I was just think carrying on off of Sam where I really enjoyed the story, especially when it comes to the that generational trauma, where you see that there's a common pattern with this flaring of anger. Especially with Anakin going to Leia, and then finally to Kylo Ren. But you also see this extremely calm and passive behavior where it's just... It goes from Anakin's own mother, who was very calm and sweet, even though we didn't see much of her. Then onto Luke who had this calmer demeanor compared to Leia and this passive or peacekeeper sort of style. And then it moves on to Rey, who is also a peacekeeper and who doesn't want to see much violence. There's always that balance in a way. It's interesting because I noticed the pattern in my own life in a way now. Where it's like me and Samantha fall into that stereotype now where she can be incredibly courageous and brave and a little aggressive to others at times. And then I see myself as a quieter mouse in a way. I like to keep things calm and levelheaded and peaceful if possible.
Sam:
Yeah. We have this saying that Zia has enough sadness for the both of us, and I have enough anger.
Haeny:
You guys are balanced in true Star Wars farm.
Nathan:
Yeah. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.
Sam:
I guess that's why we're here to talk about it. We've had Star Wars our entire lives. We're like a science project at this point.
Zia:
Definitely.
Haeny:
Wait, what about you, Gabe? What would you say? You're like, are you quiet and calm or... I think I know the answer.
Gabe:
I can be both. I can be a mouse at times and sometimes other... What's the other one again?
Haeny:
Rage-full. Aggressive,
Zia:
Like the Sith.
Gabe:
Like a bear or lion, little cat and mouse. So that cat chasing the mouse. You get what I'm saying.
Haeny:
I mean, I guess you don't have to be one thing, right?
Zia:
True.
Haeny:
You could be a lot of things all in one.
Gabe:
Yeah.
Haeny:
Okay, I have a fun question to pivot. Which Star Wars character best represents one of your parents?
Zia:
Yeah, I think probably going to say Leia and Han Solo. That's who I first go to. I'm sure it's aspects of the other characters, but my mom is definitely like the hardheaded leader type.
My dad is definitely a scoundrel. Like he's funny, he's charming. He has some really old friends like Aunt Nay-Nay and Mike and a few of the people-
Haeny:
Who is Aunt Nay-Nay?
Zia:
Oh, so...
Nathan:
I don't... This can't be... No.
Haeny:
I don't know who that is.
Zia:
Aunt Nay-Nay is what I called Nathan when I was a toddler. So
Nathan:
Thanks, guys.
Zia:
Nathan knew me when I was very small.
Nathan:
Appreciate that.
Haeny:
Now on, we will refer to you as Aunt Nay-Nay.
Nathan:
Appreciate that. My DJ name. This has been a lot of fun, though. I think we've kept you longer than we said we were going to keep you. So, I think it's probably a good time for us to start wrapping up. I've really enjoyed, by the way. I've been really enjoying hearing your guys' experience with Star Wars, hearing about how you came to it. It was so cool to hear how each of you came to Star Wars in a little bit of a different fashion. We have one last segment that Haeny is going to introduce you to before we say goodbye.
Haeny:
Okay so before we leave, we like to ask our guests a question called what's poppin'? And basically what's poppin' is not necessarily related to Star Wars, but something that you think is really cool right now that other people should engage with. It could be like a book. It could be a movie. It could be a toy. It could be something in the pop culture landscape that you think is really exciting right now that's giving you a lot of joy that you want other people to know about.
Nathan:
So what's poppin', guys?
Haeny:
What's poppin'? Gabe, go ahead.
Gabe:
If you didn't know there are actual D&D comics, there are.
Zia:
Oh.
Nathan:
Oh, yeah? Is there one you're reading right now?
Zia:
Yea.
Gabe:
I mostly read Marvel or DC, but I have a few I really like. Scarlet Witch, I love her. She is so gahh [ind].
Haeny:
Nice.
Zia:
Something that I'm really into right now is I just finished reading the graphic novel called Gender Queer. It's a really cool story about growing up and discovering just the LGBT community and figuring out your body and how you want to identify yourself. It's a really cool autobiography. I can't remember the author's name off the top of my head, but I loved it. The art was amazing. It connected with me really, really well, and I highly recommend it if anyone's interested. It's a really good read.
Sam, did you pick one?
Nathan:
What's popping, Sam?
Sam:
So yeah, I know what I want. I know what it is. It's the new Netflix reboot of Bee and PuppyCat. I've been watching it so much. I'm only like a few episodes in, but I love it. If you like Adventure Time or Stephen Universe or Amazing World of Gumball, you will probably like this. It's like my number one right now. It reminds me a lot of me and Zia. Zia is the character Bee, and I'm the character PuppyCat. Because only Zia can understand me and I'm grumpy all the time.
Nathan:
Perfect.
Haeny:
That sounds awesome. Bee and PuppyCat. I thought it was being PuppyCat, but it's actually Bee.
Nathan:
Yeah, I haven't haven't heard of that.
Gabe:
Where's it on?
Nathan:
I like some of the stuff that you mentioned, though.
Gabe:
Where's it on?
Haeny:
Netflix.
Sam:
It's on Netflix.
Zia:
Netflix.
Nathan:
Oh, yeah. That looks really cute. I have to check that out.
Gabe:
Also, there's another thing on Netflix.
Haeny:
Okay. What-
Gabe:
If you have kids, They might like Phantom Pups. It is so cute.
Nathan:
Phantom Pups?
Gabe:
They're ghosts. Actually they're phantom, but they're dogs.
Zia:
That's cool. I feel like I've seen it.
Nathan:
Now, Gabe, are these Force ghost pups?
Gabe:
No. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's on Netflix.
Zia:
Different ghost pups.
Sam:
Netflix pups.
Zia:
Different.
Nathan:
Netflix pups.
Haeny:
Okay. Well, thank you so much for being here with us today. We really enjoy talking with you. I, for one, have learned a lot because all of this is very confusing to me, and you've really illuminated a lot of things for me. Thank you so much.
Sam:
Yeah, no problem.
Nathan:
Thank you so much for being here.
Zia:
It was awesome to talk.
Sam:
Yeah, it was a fun time.
Gabe:
Also, I really don't want to go.
Haeny:
Aw. That means we had a great conversation.
Nathan:
Yes.
[Dramatic music]
Nathan:
This season of Pop and Play was produced by Haeny Yoon, Nathan Holbert, Lalitha Vasudevan, Billy Collins, and Joe Riina-Ferrie, and assistant produced by Lucius Von Joo at Teachers College, Columbia University with the Digital Futures Institute. Audio editing and production by Billy Collins.
Haeny:
For transcripts, and to learn more about our guests, visit tc.edu/popandplay. Our music is selections from Leafeaters by Podington Bear.
Pop and Play, of course, would not be possible without the fabulous team that helps put this together. Thanks to Oluwaseun Animashaun for running the Pop and Play social media accounts where you should follow us on Twitter, Instagram and TikTok under @popandplaypod. You can also follow us on Twitch under popandplay.
Special thanks to Drew Reynolds, Jen Lee, Blake Danzig, Brianne Minaudo, Moira McCavana, and Lucius Von Joo, who all helped with our outreach and or website support. Shout out to Ioana Literat for the Trashies. Watch on Instagram and TikTok.
Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time.