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Racquet Fuel provides insights into the best practices and innovations of racquets industry business leaders.
Co-hosts Kim Bastable, Director of Professional Tennis Management at the University of Florida, and Simon Gale, Senior Director Racquet Sports Development at the USTA National Campus, help racquets leaders in your ability to grow the game and to improve the experiences you offer to both your staff and players by talking to industry leaders, including USTA executives, authors and innovators. If you are on a career path in racquet sports or already a racquets business leader and you want to stay up to date on ideas and innovations in racquets industry business and leadership, this podcast is for you.
Presented by the Athlete+ Podcast Network at the University of Florida Institute for Coaching Excellence.
Welcome to Racquet Fuel, where we launch into great conversations and share powerful tools to help you become a stronger rackets leader. Your hosts are Kim Vastable, a former all American tennis player and now the director of professional rackets management at the University of Florida, and Simon Gale, the USTA senior director of racket sports development. How do we motivate someone in a healthy way, and what are the hazards of doing something for the wrong reasons? Today on Racquet Fuel, Kim and Simon unpack the psychology of leadership topics with the host of the Compete Like a Champion podcast and USTA sports psychologist, Larry Lauer. Here are Kim and Simon.
Kim Bastable:Welcome to Racquet Fuel. I'm Kim Bastable here again with Simon Gale. But maybe more importantly, this time, we're here with Larry Lauer, and I just have great respect for Larry. I have a super big interest in the psychology aspects of sports. And so I've always been fascinated by Larry.
Kim Bastable:I loved his Compete Like a Champion podcast early on when I came upon it, and I'm really thrilled to kinda get to chat with Larry, and you all get the benefit of that too. So we're we're thrilled, This is this is exciting. Another USTA guy, but someone who knows kinda something that I'm super fascinated about.
Simon Gale:Yeah. Look. I've listened to episodes with with Larry and and Johnny Parks with Compete Like a Champion for years, and thirty minutes is probably not enough, so I'm not gonna talk too much here. But understanding kind of the emotions and mindset of decision making around leadership and so on, think this is gonna be really interesting. And why have us talk about it, Kim, when we got an expert.
Simon Gale:Right?
Kim Bastable:So No joke. No joke.
Simon Gale:We'll meet on Larry today. So, Larry, thanks for joining us.
Larry Lauer:Yeah. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to to talk with you all.
Kim Bastable:This is this is really good, but I think for our listeners, I think we won't dive too quickly into the subject that that we're interested in. I'd love to just know where are you now? Tell us about your role at USTA.
Larry Lauer:Yeah. So I'm I'm located at our national campus in Orlando, and I'm the director of mental performance. So my role is to lead our mental performance team in preparing our high performance players for competition. So we work side by side with our coaching staff, our national coaching staff, our performance team areas, strength and conditioning, athletic medicine, analytics, you name it, in in preparation of the athletes. And, obviously, our job is to focus more on the mental side and help them mentally prepare.
Larry Lauer:And we spend a lot of time with juniors, so really the role is kinda helping them navigate those teen years, adolescent years, and learn what it means to be a pro, knowing that it's gonna take time and they're gonna go through a lot of things in their journey, and you're trying to help them through it and also help them build up skill sets that allow them to to get through that in a definitely in a great way, in a healthy way, but also in a way that they can thrive and compete as they're doing it.
Kim Bastable:Let me jump and ask one more thing before you go too far into the other subjects. Is this how did you get an interest in this? How did it start? Were you a player? Did you experience challenges as a player?
Kim Bastable:Maybe. I I don't know. That's kinda what inspired my psychology inspiration. How how was your what's your background before the USDA?
Larry Lauer:Yeah, Kim. So that's how many of, you know, us get involved in sports psychology. I remember being in grad school and everybody going around in the classroom and saying why they wanted to be in sports psychology. And some people it was because of an injury. Some people it was because they had a rough experience with a coach or a parent in sport.
Larry Lauer:For me, it wasn't that. For me, it was that I wanted to know why some days my my best sport was baseball. I could go four for four, a couple doubles, four RBIs, and have a great game, and then the next day go o for four and strike out three times. And it just drove me nuts to to try and figure out why. And, you know, fortunately, I grew up in a small town in Western Pennsylvania, but we had a university close by, Clarion University, and there was a professor there, Doctor.
Larry Lauer:Eastley Krausz, who was studying my high school. So in my junior year, she was studying the seniors and overall athletic program and why we were having success. So she knew of me. So once I got to Clarion University in my first year as an undergrad, I took a psych one zero one course, and she approached me and said, hey, Larry. I'm gonna be teaching a special class in sports psychology next semester.
Larry Lauer:Would you be interested in being a part of that? And I had no idea what sports psychology was. I was 18, and, you know, I was coaching baseball. I was walking onto the baseball team at Clarion University, but I had no clue. And I ended up the next semester taking that course.
Larry Lauer:Found it answered a lot of those questions that I had, but it opened up way more questions. And so I got really interested in studying the field and learning more, working with doctor Krausz in my undergraduate years at Clarion, and then obviously moving on for a master's and then a PhD with Dan Gould. Yeah. My curiosity always has also been around the psychology, just understanding why we behave and perform as we do. You know?
Larry Lauer:So even when I was a hockey director, I was really curious as to why, you know, players would, some moments, control their emotions and and stay on the ice and make good plays, and other times they would lose it and punch somebody, cross check somebody, be off the ice. So just always had a lot of questions around, and I felt like sports psychology provided a lot of insight into why we see what we see.
Simon Gale:So, Larry, firstly, I don't know what you charge per hour, but my golf rounds take about four hours. So if you could follow me around and tell me why I can shoot mid seventies one day and then mid eighties the next, you would be the greatest help in my life I could get. But seriously, going in a slightly different direction, you talked about you work a lot with juniors and you work in in the performance player space. And today, we're talking a bit more about leadership and and the mindset and what what goes into to decision making maybe around leadership choices and and the decisions they make. Where did you or how have you applied yourself differently to start to delve into that space?
Larry Lauer:Well, it's definitely a journey. Right? Because when you start out you know, I was young when I started out. I was in my mid twenties in grad school. And in my twenties, I was a hockey director, and it was my first time leading really leading programs.
Larry Lauer:I coached when I was younger, but really being a leader and making some mistakes, sometimes saying things that backfired, sometimes doing things that backfired and learning from that was part of the journey, but I had such great mentors. Again, doctor Dan Gould has been a fabulous mentor for me all my life and just what it means to lead and and to try and do it in a way where it's about others. And I've tried to bring that to my leadership roles wherever I've been. And then when you start to get in the field of sports psychology, there really is a fork in the road, and that one of those forks in the road anyway is to me, are you doing this for you? Are you doing this for others?
Larry Lauer:And that I think that's a question I like to ask myself often. Why am I choosing to do what I'm doing, including, like, the Compete Like a Champion podcast, and why why do we do that or other things that we do? And in a way, trying to keep myself in check. So I've I've tried to take what I've learned from my mentors, doctor Paul Lubbers, who was at the USCA for years, was a is another one of my mentors. I just talked to him the other day discussing things and just try to learn from them and how they dealt with situations.
Larry Lauer:I've been fortunate to work with a lot of great coaches over the years. So many great coaches in hockey and for sure in tennis. You know, I I got to spend a lot of time with Jose Higuiris, Ola Mamquist, Jay Berger, Kathy Rinaldi, Ken Kinnear, and you can go on down the line to all these great coaches, Tom Gullickson, that I've been able to sit and listen to. And one of the things though that that cuts across all those is that they're they were doing this because they wanna help others. Of course, they wanna become a great coach and they wanna have their players win and all these things, but it's about the people that you're leading.
Larry Lauer:And I've I've always tried to remember that. So I feel like this journey into sports psychology and just leadership and educational and and high performance situations has has been a good one because it's helped me to learn what kind of leader I am and trying to bring bring that out in in my role now. So so I don't know if that answers the question, Simon, but Absolutely. Thank you.
Kim Bastable:Well, I think what we would resonate on is the idea that you have so many people you've learned from, and that's something I think all of us believe that had, you know, been around long enough realize we're stealing. We're we're learning. We're we're learning from those who have been before us, and that's such an important aspect. You clearly have great evidence of that, in your life, and so that's inspiring. You know, I have a 2021 podcast of yours, to compete like a champion on the motivation of leadership that is about the first thing I asked the director of Racquet Sports students in the UF course to listen to because it reflects upon this question of, you know, what's your motivation very directly.
Kim Bastable:It's called, is success a barrier to genuine leadership and motivation? How could success actually, you know, maybe change your motivation? So can you shed some light on why you taught that episode and what the the research that it centered on, which was was out of The Netherlands? So it's fascinating to me.
Larry Lauer:Yeah. It it really came from, like, a lot of things do for the compete like a champ champion podcast. Johnny and I having an interest in a topic, something maybe that we're learning about, we're wrestling with. We also gotta remember the context. You know, 2021, so COVID was still, you know, the greatest threat in the world and just this terrible crisis, and we're all going through it together as a as a world.
Larry Lauer:And it was a time of reflection. It was a time of for many thinking about meaning and why am I doing what I'm doing? And and we saw, you know, a great turnover because a lot of people left the positions they were in, and they went somewhere else. And part of what we were experiencing was what does this mean, and how can we communicate that to our audience? Like, what we're seeing, what we're going through.
Larry Lauer:I had also had the experience of, you know, having athletes once COVID started going into lockdown, not being able to play, and we were spending, my team and I, twelve, fourteen hours with players a day on virtual calls and and just checking in on them. And and they all wanted to get better somehow, and and the mental side seemed to be the place where they felt like they could do it at that time. So everything kinda came to a head where it was like this this makes sense. Like, why are we doing what we're doing? We're doing.
Larry Lauer:And I read this article in Psychology Today, and I felt like, yeah, you know what, this is something we need to talk about not just for for Johnny and I, like why do we treat people the way we do? Why do we try to lead the way we do? But how it can get away from us. You know, it it slips sometimes. Right?
Larry Lauer:You know, when we're we're doing things for a promotion, for a raise, for recognition, for a trophy, for publicity, whatever it is, when that becomes a reward, you start to lose the essence, the authentic passion, I think was the way it was termed for why you're doing what you're doing. And in that case, first, you're not really leading authentically. You're not inspiring your followers. You're not helping them become them best selves because it's about you, and it's about your ego and fulfilling your needs over theirs. And it's not motivating for them, and it certainly ends up not being motivating for the leader eventually, especially when that reward goes away.
Larry Lauer:So it it's a slippery slope. Right? Because, you know, your leader, your supervisor, your boss says, hey. You could be up for a promotion or for a raise, and things click. Like, oh, I want that.
Larry Lauer:That's a good thing. So maybe I start working for that instead of working for my my team, my coworkers, my my athletes. And so, you know, that can switch very easily, and it's something where you, as a leader, have to be constantly reflecting on why you're doing what you're doing. I think it allows you to stay connected to your true reasons for doing what you do. I'll I'll say it here, and I say it a lot of times because I think it's important to share.
Larry Lauer:I I do what I do because I love to help others. Certainly, I have an ego like everyone, and I wanna be great at what I do. And, you know, I wanna make a difference, of course, for me, but it's gotta be about the people that you work with. And and so it's important to have that reflection often where you're checking yourself. And why am I choosing to do what I'm choosing to do right now?
Larry Lauer:It's a it's a great question to ask yourself as a leader, as a coach. Maybe you're looking at a promotion. You're looking at a a new role. And why are you doing that? You know, what what's the reason behind that?
Larry Lauer:And it it's okay to choose to do things for yourself sometimes, but it can't always be about that. And you've got it it's gotta be about doing the right thing, and I think that's a part of what Johnny and I were feeling is that there was a whole lot of discussions about why we do what we do around that time and and that article and and just that that topic. We'd also talked to Alistair McCaw as well about the ego, and we just felt like it was a very appropriate topic at the time. And I think it is today as well for for many reasons.
Simon Gale:Well, it sounds like it sounds like that'd be a great question to weave into an interview, Larry, if you try and pull that out of someone as well, why are you looking for this role? Why is it the right thing for you? We ask those type of questions, but do we ask them with that thought in mind, or is it more of a generic question that we just tend to ask someone in an interview is, you know, why is this role the next thing for you?
Larry Lauer:That's a good point. And I I challenge myself with that because I interview folks at times as well, and, you know, it's tough to get at. But, you know, it's a lot easier to get at when you have trust. For example, with my team, I feel like I have trust where I can go to my mental coaches, Erlen and Mark, and say, hey. You know, why are we doing this?
Larry Lauer:Are we doing this for the right reason? Are we doing this for the players, or are we doing this for us? What what's the purpose behind starting this new thing or doing this this way? And we can have those real conversations. So, you know, it's it's helpful if you have mentors that you trust, people you can go to.
Larry Lauer:They don't even have to be like your leaders. They can be people that you're working with, you're collaborating with, that you have a a trusting relationship with that you can open up and say, like, why are we why are we choosing to do this? Is it about us, or is it about something greater than that? And I I think that that's something we all should be thinking about.
Simon Gale:So do you feel like a lot of people struggle with that, like chasing titles and pay and losing sight of that intrinsic motivation?
Larry Lauer:I do. You know, in my role, I spend more time with the players, but I do spend time with the staff. I spend time with folks at the USTA in general. But this isn't really a comment about the USTA. This is a comment about leadership in general and and just motivation that life has become a lot about getting the next reward in many ways in society and and getting recognized for that.
Larry Lauer:And when it becomes about that, you start to lose your meaning. You start to lose that passion. You know, Simon Sinek I just read something the other day from Simon Sinek, and he said that how when the person went to do a talk that when they were in a leadership role in the government, they got the personal car. They got all these perks. And when they got there, they gave them all these things and this nice mug and treated them like a prince.
Larry Lauer:And then they were out of that role a couple years later and went to the same conference, and they had to get their own car. They had to, you know, get their own food and water. And and it's like, you know what? The role is the role. Like, it's not me.
Larry Lauer:It's the role. And someone else someday is going to have my role if we do a good job of this at USTA. And that's, I think, the same for all of us in leadership positions. You gotta remember that I'm not always gonna be in this role and have this opportunity, so let's do it the right way. But remember that, you know, it's it's not really about those things.
Larry Lauer:It's about the people you're working with because that's that's what you're gonna remember, you know, when you're out of that role as well and how you made those people feel, and did you help them achieve their goals. And, certainly, I had people that that helped me, and they didn't have to. And I was very fortunate that way, and, you know, I try to keep that in mind.
Kim Bastable:How often do you need to ask yourself, are you doing it for the right reasons? What's what's the I mean, how quickly is this in every three months and every year? What's in your mind, like, the the gotta reevaluate this period of time?
Larry Lauer:Well, I think is in my field, we we're trained to do that daily to reflect on our work with with our clients, our athletes, and understanding not only what they're going through, but how we're responding to them and how we're working through that as as a consultant, in my case, as a mental coach. But not everybody's gonna do that. But I I do think, like, if we're talking about coaches, directors, managers, general managers, I feel like at least weekly or at least anytime you're you're thinking of a change, starting something different, new, I really feel like you gotta evaluate the purposes for that. Right? But at the same time, I know not everyone's gonna do that, and that feels like a whole lot of mental work.
Larry Lauer:But it will keep you in check, and it'll keep you aligned with your reasons for doing what you do. And, again, I'm not arguing against promotions and and moving up. Obviously, I've had that opportunity, and I would be a hypocrite to say that I I didn't look for those opportunities, but just trying to remember how you got there and remember that, you know, it's it's not permanent, and it's it's not about me. And that's a check that you gotta do often. You know, again, like I said, I was fortunate even fortunate to get this role at the USTA.
Larry Lauer:You know, I was 40 years old when I got this role, and I remember getting, you know, at times getting frustrated. Like, when am I gonna get, like, the dream job? When am I gonna be able to really do everything I wanna do with the athletes? You know, it took time, and it took patience. And and Dan Gould was a great mentor, just continued to help me grow and and learn.
Larry Lauer:And I had so many other people as well to help me understand that. But I think you, you know, you just gotta keep it in check. And I think at that time, was I working at Michigan State, and I was loving the work I was doing, but I wanted more applied work. And I was running my own business, but a position like I have now where you're a part of a developmental system is really what I wanted. And, you know, I had to wait for it.
Larry Lauer:And I had to check my ego often because, like, you know what? Maybe you haven't done everything you need to do yet. Maybe you need to continue to improve. Maybe there's other things you can do. And I think that hopefully prepared me for this role that when it did open up and I had an opportunity to interview for it that I was I was finally ready to do it.
Kim Bastable:Do you think there's some difference between or or some difficulty with people understanding the difference between intrinsic motivation and extrinsic motivation? Do they early on, I feel like people see social media. They see trophies. They see rankings, whatever level or whatever sport you're at or influence or power when you get to the director position. Do you think that's an understood well understood concept of intrinsic versus extrinsic?
Larry Lauer:Not necessarily. I think that, you know, the these psychological concepts, not every everybody's reading about them, and they might be getting misinformation, bad information as well. You know, it's it's about you climbing a ladder, do what you gotta do. You know, when I it happens a lot with youngsters, like teenagers, they'll say, well, when I get to be a leader, I'm gonna get to tell people what to do. And I'm like, woah, woah, woah, wait a second.
Larry Lauer:That's not what it's about. You're actually a servant when you're a leader. You should be a servant. My job is to make sure that the mental performance team, that they're in a position that they can succeed, that our national coaching staff, that I help them to be in a position where they can succeed, and certainly the athletes and our performance staff. So it's about service.
Larry Lauer:Right? But people lose that. They think that with the power, now I get to make the decisions. You can based on whatever power you have, but you're not necessarily going to inspire others to change, to do what's necessary to grow and improve. And so I think we do lose sight of that.
Larry Lauer:But from the standpoint of intrinsic versus extrinsic, a lot of times we do start out with that intrinsic motivation, which means I'm doing this for something more for me to get better, to learn, to help others, to improve the world, whatever it is. Right? You have this kind of passion of of wanting to do something, and then it it can flip. Like we talked about, when you start having success, it's a little bit of a trap where, okay, now I'm doing it for the trophy. Now I'm doing it for the media clippings.
Larry Lauer:Now, okay, now the the social media likes. Now I'm doing it for, you know, the promotion, the raise. And, again, you know, that that reward is motivating in the short term. It's gonna motivate people to to work hard, to do what they need to do. Right?
Larry Lauer:However, once the reward is achieved, the promotion is achieved or not, it goes away, somebody else gets it, what happens to the motivation? It tends to slip. Right? Because the big shiny prize is gone. Now what am I doing this for?
Larry Lauer:So the way we think about this is that the intrinsic can sustain long lasting motivation over a career, over a lifetime. The extrinsic, the external can't because it's based on something transitory, and it's more controlling. Right? I'm doing this for this. Hey, guess what?
Larry Lauer:There's someone somewhere who decides whether or not you get that. And is that how you're gonna base it? Because if you do, you may lose that passion and that motivation for it.
Simon Gale:Well, it almost feels like, you know, they talk about the five year itch and so on, and people are looking for something and and, you know, they they think they're a little flat, but are they really looking for that new reward extrinsic, that title versus understanding who I am and why I do this job? And maybe I'm in a great place, and there's a way to negotiate some extra pay or time off or something that would be rewarding without having to switch jobs and change titles. In that process, Larry, how does somebody stay humble? Maybe that's not the right word. If you lose sight of that a little bit and you get caught up in the titles, rewards, accolades, the LinkedIn posts, and this sort of thing, how do you stay humble through this process as you kinda move up the ladder, so to speak?
Larry Lauer:It's a great question, Simon. I think that you have to remember the people that helped you along the way and how you didn't get there on your own and that your success is always binded to others. It may not be that apparent at times. You know, if I write something, I create something for the podcast, for example, I came up with the idea, but, you know, Johnny brings the life to it, the energy, the different insights. Right?
Larry Lauer:So I know that any success we have compete like a champion is not just me. It's Johnny. It's Chris Michalowski in the background. You know, it's people who allowed us to do that in the first place said, you know what? You should do that.
Larry Lauer:And it's the people who listen to it. And so I think it's trying to remember those things and knowing that whatever success I'm having is is really based on what I've been able to do with others. And another way, Simon, is that if you you surround yourself with good people, maybe people who are even better at things than you are, they're gonna make you better. And and that's a good thing. One of the things I felt like, you know, growing up in our profession in the field, and I'm talking about sports psychology, is there weren't many jobs because everybody was fighting for the jobs.
Larry Lauer:I want the job with the, you know, with the Cubs or with this university, wherever. And it's like, well, now there's somebody who has thirty years of experience who's already doing that. So guess what? You're not getting that. So how are you going to go about this?
Larry Lauer:And it felt like there was a lot of, like, fighting just for mine versus, hey. You know, maybe there's enough for everyone if we're really doing this in a good way and showing people what good we could do with sports psychology and helping others. So working together, we were able to, you know, share with the community like, hey. You know what? Actually, working on your mind is a good thing, and it's a good thing for high school athletes and junior athletes and and kids.
Larry Lauer:And it just looks different than maybe it does with pros, but it's very helpful. And so that created more jobs. Right? So, again, I think it's being able to know that others are always going to be a part of your success and, you know, making sure that you you really have good people around you that keep you in check and challenge you, and they help you reflect on these things. And so, you know, it's just a good practice to even get out your journal and and and be like, okay.
Larry Lauer:I'm gonna write a little bit about my day, and why am I doing what we're doing? Why am I reacting the way I'm reacting? Why am I feeling the way I'm feeling? And just keeping staying in touch for
Simon Gale:the real reasons. So yeah. So, Larry, as coaches, part of our reason or motivation for this podcast is to inspire the next generation of leaders and also help current directors be more successful in their roles. What do you recommend they need to focus on or or the skills they need to work on in order to be successful in leading people well? You've touched on a lot of things, but if you start to sum that up a little bit, what would you say?
Larry Lauer:I would say really really work on your critical thinking and reflective skills, you know, taking time to reflect in the moment, you know, being able to pause before you do something. Why am I about to say what I'm about to say or make the decision I'm gonna make? So that's reflect reflection in action and reflecting reflection on action after the debriefing, breaking it down. Why why did this go the way it did? Why why are we doing this the way we're doing it?
Larry Lauer:I had such great experiences with Dan Gould. I keep bringing him up, but just fond memories of we would go you know, I was at East Lansing, Michigan and Michigan State, but we worked with a big Detroit Police Athletic League in their their youth sport programs. And we would go to Detroit and run a coaching program, and the drive home inevitably was sort of this forensic debrief on and how it went and and what was the process, right, and what was the product, and how did that connect one to the other. So I was trained in that as a young professional to to do that. So I think that's important.
Larry Lauer:I think it's important, Simon, to have mentors. People who you can go to, that you trust, that are gonna give you advice. They've made those transitions. Maybe they made the transition to a director or general manager from a coaching role, and and they can give you a lot of advice about how to make that transition, how to have success, and to lead in a in a transformational and service oriented way. I think it's always important to think about how you like to be led and how others have responded to your leadership.
Larry Lauer:How are people responding to you? You know, it it's part of our counseling training that we receive, but just taking stock of what's happening in the room. Are people looking at you? Are they looking confident? Do they look confused?
Larry Lauer:They look disappointed? Like, reading the room, trying to get a sense, and then asking, hey, how we doing? Like, how do we feel about this? Like, give me your real feedback on how this makes you feel. And I think those kinds of things, you know, as leaders, because sometimes in our roles, people are afraid to give us feedback, They can keep us in tune with how, you know, our team feels, how they're really doing.
Larry Lauer:You know, having that transparent communication is extremely important. And finally, I would say, if you make a mistake, own up to it. Own it. And really, you know, talk about why it happened and and how you're gonna respond to it. So and the final final thing, Simon and Kim, is that one of the big things, you know, I was talking about sort of the you know, you talked about the ego on the podcast and doing things for me, and if we can remember, this has been helpful to me, that if others are having success, that's good for me.
Larry Lauer:So if if one of the mental performance coaches does just a tremendous job, which happens often because they're very good, that's making me better. And I will get recognition when they're doing a great job. So I don't need to make it about me. So when one of my teammates does an amazing job, recognizing them and being happy for them only makes me better. And and that's something as a young professional, cause we're kind of in this, you know, it's dog eat dog, and you gotta do everything to get ahead.
Larry Lauer:I don't know. Sometimes we lose ourself in that world, and I think it's important to remember these things.
Simon Gale:Kim, I gotta ask one quick follow-up. You gotta give me a quick answer here, Larry, though.
Larry Lauer:Okay. Quick. Okay.
Simon Gale:All of what you're talking about to me, a lot of that sounds like emotional intelligence to me. You're talking about reading rooms, how do you like to be led, how are others respond to you, and quite often, there's all there's a lot of research that seems to center around seventy five, eighty percent of successful leaders have a high emotional intelligence, which feels like what you're talking about. But we get taught all these different styles of leadership. People might put themselves in a box of I am a servant type leadership or I'm a dictator or whatever style you are. It feels like the blending of all those styles with what you're talking about, it's more about understanding who's in front of you and leading them the way they need to be led and adjusting to your team versus this is my style.
Simon Gale:Would that be fair to say?
Larry Lauer:I think that's a very accurate perception on your part. I feel like the training I had at UNC Greensboro with Dan were very eclectic in terms of pulling from different philosophies and theories. And then you take the person in front of you and say, what are they trying to achieve? What are their goals? What are they dealing with?
Larry Lauer:How can we help them? And not just putting them in a box and saying, well, they're this, so therefore, we gotta follow this formula. Let's understand them and how can we best work together to achieve their goals. So very much so. The emotional intelligence, without a doubt, it's something that I've tried to work on.
Larry Lauer:I think any leader should should be working on that because I do agree that a lot of our success will come from being emotionally intelligent. You can be a very smart person and a really bad leader, and you can be just okay. I I don't think I'm the smartest person around by any means, and and I think there's a lot of people who, you know, they're not they don't have the highest IQ scores at their school who are absolutely great leaders. And so I think that there there are other ways to become this great leader, and, you know, certainly emotional intelligence seems to be a big part of that.
Kim Bastable:No. That's great. Great insight. And I think that emotional intelligence piece is definitely a key. I love the John Wooden line that you're supposed to coach everyone the same differently and just being sensitive to what what their needs are and getting all to the goal of developing everyone.
Kim Bastable:And it is the job of a leader to do that. I'm sure, Simon, you have about three or four or 10 to dos off of what Larry has said regarding your hiring and leadership there at the campus. What are your takeaways maybe in form of being helpful to the listener?
Simon Gale:Personally, number one is I need to start having lunch with Larry once in a while and talk about this stuff because I think it's it's fascinating. But I I had a few. One was the primary reason you are in a leadership role is to help others, but we talk about that often, but that was a key statement. Listen to leaders and and learn about how they conduct themselves. So look around you and look at other leaders and and learn from them, someone you respect and ask and seek out why they do things the way they do.
Simon Gale:Mentors was massive. Seek them out, pick their brains, acknowledge their help along the way. Somebody's helped you move up. You didn't do it just by yourself, so I think that's really important. And clearly, I don't reflect enough because I probably do it a couple of times a year.
Simon Gale:I think I'm constantly reflecting, but I wouldn't say it's formal, but the importance of reflecting on your why and not losing sight of that as you kinda move up the ladder, so to speak. I think there's some really good takeaways in just thirty minutes. So, Larry, this has been fantastic. I appreciate all your insight.
Larry Lauer:I enjoyed it. You're welcome. Again, we're just building off of what others have done before us, so, you know, just happy to share it, and hopefully it helps.
Kim Bastable:Definitely. Well, I I think there's a joke around people at clubs that says, you know, I'd get my work done if I didn't have all these members getting in the way. And
Larry Lauer:Yeah. I think I've heard that one.
Kim Bastable:Wait a minute.
Larry Lauer:Price
Kim Bastable:them. Think that your members are your job. But we all get a little bit, focused on the to do list versus the people around us sometimes. So great insight. I really appreciate your time.
Kim Bastable:It was long overdue because I've been fascinated by your work for some time and I have great respect. So thank you so much, and, we may well have to do this again in a couple years because I just love the subject so much. I appreciate it very much. Alright. That's what we have for you today on Racquet Fuel.
Kim Bastable:We will speak to you next time.
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