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In this episode, we talk with Stephanie McKee Anderson and Damia Khanboubi of Junebug Productions, a 40 year old presenting and producing company based in New Orleans Louisiana. Stephanie and Damia share the importance of being connected to a legacy and how to iterate without losing your center.
TACtile is the podcast for Leveraging a Network for Equity (LANE) a program of the National Performance Network. This podcast discusses practical tools and concepts designed to transform the field of Arts and Culture towards equity and justice. This podcast is produced by LANE Cohort members, Sage Crump and is edited by Jazz Franklin.
Sage Crump: Thank you for tuning into TACtile, a practical guide to transforming art and culture. This is the podcast of Leveraging a Network for Equity--LANE, a program of the National Performance Network. LANE supports arts organizations of color and rural organizations with time and resources needed to grow their infrastructure in ways that are culturally authentic and moves the field towards justice. I'm your host, Sage Crump, programs specialist for LANE.
Music Introduction: (sung) Keep on a walking. Keep on a talking. Marching up to freedom land. Ain't gonna let no jailhouse turn me around.
SC: We are super excited today to be sitting with Stephanie McKee and Damia Khanboubi of Junebug Productions. Junebug Productions is located here in New Orleans, Louisiana, so they're our neighbors and our friends for many, many years, and I'm personally excited about this opportunity to talk with them because I've had an up close and personal look at the transformation that has happened, not only on the last four years with LANE, but with the work that these two amazing women have been doing for over a decade, and so, I'm excited for the rest of the world to understand and learn more about the brilliance that they bring to our field, and so I'm gonna ask Stephanie McKee-Anderson and Damia Khanboubi to introduce themselves and a little bit about Junebug Productions.
Damia Khanboubi: I'm Damia Khanboubi. I'm the director of community collaboration and marketing at Junebug Productions.
Stephanie Mckee-Anderson: And my name is Stephanie McKee-Anderson. I am the executive artistic director of Junebug Productions, and I have the great honor of being in the second generation of leadership for the organization.
SC: That's exciting. I think we're gonna ask you a little bit about what that means around the second generation of leadership for the organization, but can you give us a little bit of history about Junebug Productions, and what I know it's specialness is and what folks who may be listening who aren't familiar with can learn about what Junebug brings to the field and has been for many years. (2:13)
SMA: Sure, so, Junebug productions is considered the organizational successor to the Free Southern Theater. The Free Southern Theater was actually started in 1963. It was founded by Doris Derby, the late Gilbert Moses, and the late John O'Neal, who was–, also was the founding artistic director for Junebug. Junebug itself will be 40 years old in 2020. So we're making 40 years very soon. It doesn't seem like--. It seems like just yesterday it was really just 30 years or 20 years, but it's 40 years in 2020, and that is a huge milestone for us that represents 40 years of continuing the legacy of Free Southern Theater in looking at that intersection between art and social justice, and how we turn around with the artwork that we create, how we turn around and, and have that in service of ongoing movement and movement building and organizing that's happening here in the city of New Orleans and beyond.
SC: That's really exciting. Thank you for sharing that Stephanie, because one of the things that I think is really important is the role that place plays in Junebug Productions, and naming New Orleans and caring for the stories of New Orleans and the people here. How long have you been involved with the organization, both you and Damia?
SMA: So, Damia has a little bit of a different trajectory than I do.
DK: So, I think that I have known of and loved Junebug--, I think I was introduced to Junebug at Ashé, when I was working at Ashé, and that would be ten, ten years ago. And, but I actually came on at Junebug almost four years ago now. That time has fly. Flew. However that goes.
SC: That's exciting.
SMA: So, it's funny. A funny story. I was trying to remember how old I was when I started getting connected to Junebug. And I wanna say that I, I was in my mid-20s when I was connected. John and my father actually helped me understand that I was actually connected to Junebug via Free Southern Theater a lot earlier than that. I'll tell you that. But in my mid-20s was when I actually got connected in a, in a, in a performative way to Junebug, through different programs that they have, but I think the one that was most formative was the one that was run by the associate artistic director, Adella Gauthier, who had had a celebration of women in the arts. She would do that every year. She did it in March, and you know, I was a young artist and trying to figure stuff out in a very youthful way said, Oh, I always wanted to do a production. I'll just do it myself.
SC: Nice. Many folks have tried.
SMA: Yea, so I was like, I'll just do it myself, no big deal. And very quickly learned that it takes a lot to put up a production, and those numbers, when you start adding them up get very humbled, you get humbled real quick when you start looking at all those numbers and they start adding up. But there I was, the tiniest bit of two grants. One through the jazz fest and the other through the arts council. First time around. I met–, Adella and I were teaching a workshop to some kids, and I was just telling her how frustrated I was and that, you know, I didn't have nearly all the money or resources I needed to pull this production off. And she said, well, wait a minute, before you--. Is there a way that you can do it maybe a month earlier. And I said–, I was gonna say no, and then I stopped myself, and I said, well why.
SC: Mmm. Good question.
SMA: And then she went ahead to tell me about this program she has, celebration of women in the arts, and that if I were able to shift the dates of that, if my artists were available to do that, that, Here are all the things that Junebug can bring towards this production for you. So, it was--. I was been thinking about this. It was my first experience with understanding what collaborations and what, you know, being very resourceful, what those kind of real strategic collaborations and partnerships look like. It was my first foray into that. It was so formative, I really think that it really has--. It's, it’s just stayed with me, so I understand what it means to be an artist that's supported by an organization. But to that end, I also know what kind of magic can happen when you have the right resources for your own work. That's really stayed with me, so that's how that happened. The older story was that it turns out my father and John O'Neal actually knew each other when I was a baby. So I was a baby coming around. I don't have any memory of it. I have zero memory of it, but I was an adult when my father was helping me take some boxes in, and they ran into each other. I didn't know they knew each other.
SC: Wow.
SMA: And that's how we found out. In that parking lot.
SC: Feels like you were, you were destined to be generationally impacted in so many ways. And I love having this conversation with both of you, just Stephanie for your long extended history as an artist and as Executive Artistic Director here. And then, Damia, you came in, like, right before LANE started, it sounds like.
DK: Yes, yes.
SC: (8:13) Right on the front end, and so, you, together you have this, like, bookend history of this experience together that I'm really excited to delve into. LANE is grounded in this idea of we have everything we need to make the transformations for our organizations; we just need a body of support. And some money, you know. That helps us get there, but the knowledge, like, our communities. And so, there's a way in which all of the organizations have been operating for years around what change looks like. And I think it's really exciting for folks to hear from you all. How do you think change happens?
DK: So, I--. I think change happens in many ways. Something that--. A way that it happens that really stands out for me is I think that change cannot happen without the, the spark, the dream, via, the shift in thinking that the change is possible in the first place.
SC: Thanks so much, Damia, I really appreciate this idea of change being, not even just local like as in a place, but located inside oneself as a, as a genesis. I'm curious, Stephanie, same question. How do you think change happens?
SMA: Well, I think as Damia said, you have to fundamentally believe that it's possible. And I put emphasis on that because I, I've seen in my lifetime people and what it looks like; I'll use the example of Obama. I know what it looks like to turn around and look at my grandfather who was 80 something years old at the time going, It'll never happen in my lifetime. It’ll never happen. (10:01) Having lived that many years. I suspect that at another time in his life, he felt like it would.
SC: Ah.
SMA: Right?
SC: Uh-huh.
SMA: And so I'm really curious about how your ability to hang on to the possibility that it can happen, even if you're not around when it happens. So that's one thing that was really striking from what it was that you said. But I'm also--. I think about change as in, I can strike a match right now, and it goes from, you know, having a fire in it and it going out in just a few seconds. But I think about what it means to turn around and have a fire that burns a lot longer. And what does that mean? And to me, when I think about change, I think about movement, and I think about movement building, and it takes all of those things. It takes the spark which you spoke about very eloquently, but it also means that we, we want the kind of change that's lasting. LIke, we want that kind of change that's lasting and can be sustained, right? Not quick change. I think we all know what quick change looks like. A quick change is not sustainable change to me. Things that happen really quickly it's like, Yeah, I could bake a cake and it could be really quick, but all the right ingredients coming together to really make it really good is gonna take a little bit longer, right? So it'll take longer for us to get here. So I'm thinking about not just the road and journey it takes to turn around and get to said change, but I'm also thinking about the length of time and the duration of time: What does change look like? What does it mean to create that change where it's a lasting change that sits with us longer than that quick Betty Crocker change.
SC: No, that's, that's, you know, I appreciate the way you said, like, We all know that. Because when you said that, immediately I remembered when Oprah went on the liquid diet in the 80s, and came out in these, like, Gloria Vanderbilt, or, or some Sassoon jeans.
SMA: And she looked good, didn't she? (12:10)
SC: She did. Lasted all of maybe a year. (all laugh)
SMA: That's right. That’s right.
SC: And then so, there are ways that change is not just in a moment, but change has to--. I'm thinking about the long term.
SMA: Well, I mean, it's apropos to what it is that we do, right? We’ve all had the ebbs and flows, I think. Organizations that are lucky to be around the length of time that Juenbug has has had those ebbs and flows inside of the work. We've had those moments where we're all excited; look at all this money that we have. And then, we are, you know, can't find two nickels to rub together. That's what I mean by change. Like, well how do we turn around and sustain it? How, how can we be in a space of, (laugh) I used this analogy the other day. I wanna just be in the Good Times change, right? Like Good Times the sitcom, scratching and surviving. I don't wanna be in scratching and surviving, but really thriving as an institution and organization, we know that there are all kinds of things that are stacked up against us with that. For us I feel like–. I feel like my job, our job while we're here atJjunebug during this time that we have as part of its legacy is to really kind of dig away and try to figure out, and try to figure out how to crack the code, how to figure it out. How do we turn around and create an organization? An organization as important as this. I don't think you get to 40 years without people feeling like what you're doing is necessary towards the movement. I think that it stuck around because it is necessary and something that's needed. And I'm not afraid of something that needs to sunset. I, I, I firmly believe in that. There's things that happen, and it happens, it serves a purpose, and it can sunset. (14:03) I'm okay with that. But I think the fact that it's been around as long as it has has been is because it's something that's really needed and wanted, and I feel like our job is to figure out how, as long as that need exists, how do we turn around and create a legacy for other people when we're long gone. Or create a legacy that actually affects, whether we're here or not, that the impact of what was done on this earth is really felt, for generations.
SC: I appreciate that. Particularly what you all are talking about around, like, possibility, and, and, impact for generations. Because I feel like, because that is--, because that is the way you all think about change, in my mind that might have been related to why you applied to LANE in the first place, right? Cause there are a lot of folks, and I've said this on other episodes of the podcast: LANE was something that no one had experienced before. So the idea that folks are spending some time, writing applications or letters for this thing that nobody quite knows what it is? You know, and how grateful I am that folks took this journey. I'm curious, like, what, what did you believe might have been possible. Or what were you all looking for in that, in that time when you were thinking about LANE?
SMA: During that time for us, we were sitting down and think--, honestly, most of the questions that were being asked was not,--, it was not difficult for us to digest what was being asked. We didn't know how it was gonna play out, but it was not difficult for us to answer the questions, because we were already in that place of inquiry with our own work. Like, how do we--. How do we move out of this? What makes a sustainable organization? What is it about these legacy institutions, and we were not by ourselves, there were other organizations that were similar, similarly situated that we had, and still have lots of conversations around, how do we--. I always liken it to hamsters in a wheel. (16:08) That really go nowhere. How do we get out of that cycle? How do we get out of that cycle? How do we break into another, another place? How do we stay motivated to do the work? How do we stay encouraged? How do we move into a place of finding, of finding new things, of being ahead of the curve, new technology, new--. And we know that it's possible. (laugh)
SC: Mm-hmm.
SMA: We know that it's possible, but how do we stay fresh enough to be thinking in that way. We were already curious about that. The ambiguity of the program itself. I think I can deal with ambiguity a little bit more than a lot of people. I can tolerate like that gray area that we're not quite sure what it is. I think I can deal with that. In fact, I hope. I hope. (Two words unclear) (17:07) You might say something really different, cause you had to deal with me, so you may say something different. But as we're in the ambiguity, the thing that I like is surfacing the questions. Like, okay, so then what does this mean? Or, in what way, in challenging, bringing this level of inquiry and challenge, not in a bad way, but just as--. How is this gonna be different from other things that we do?
SC: Mm-hm.
SMA: Why should we be reporting in this way when this is this? What is this bumping up against? I feel tension in this thing, and I’m not quite sure what it is. You know, in that moment that we had to keep, kind of, I think you know what I'm saying–
SC: I do.
SMA: --when I’m talking about this moment about reporting and about, like--. No, it was about submitting the full–
SC: Yes.
SMA: –proposal. And it was--. And I speak about that to this day. It was about timelines, and it was about competing timelines. Junebug has a timeline that we're working on, NPN has a timeline that they're working on, and then Mellon, who's funding the program–
SC and SMA: --has a timeline–
SMA: --that they're working on. (18:16) Right? And it was only until that moment that that proposal had to come in that I’m like, Wait, something's not adding up. What's going on? You said I had plenty of time; I always feel like I don't have a lot of time. And in fact we realized, we thought we did, but actually, because of something another competing timeline, we actually don't have the time that we thought. That I can digest, you know what I mean? But I don't think that's a bad thing. I think that's a wonderful thing to, to be able to dig and to get to, because it allows us a different space to come to and talk about, here are the things that we learned along the way. You know, I think that's what I appreciate about ambiguity, cause it helps you get clear real quick.
SC: I mean one of the things that I, I won't negate that, I think that is true, that there, there were a lot of questions that, that you came with, both of you came with that were really exciting for me. Because I think one of the things that, in my mind, every cohort member has a little, like a little subtitle in my mind, like, this is the organization that's like Blah blah blah. This is the organization–. And for me, Junebug holds curiosity and imagination so beautifully. Like I feel like you all took this time and like leaned into, like, Okay, hold up, like. And in order to--. I like to say structure and creativity are not enemies. You need to know what the parameters were so that you could activate your imaginations inside that so you could be like, Okay, let's try this. Or, hold onto that; I need some more information for this, and, and I’m--. Now we know how to move. I feel like it was one--. You all are one of the most self-determined organizations that I've gotten the pleasure of working with. It's just really clear. I understand all these things are happening, and this is what feels right for us. Which, when you’re talking about systems change, is a really important space to hold, so that folks understand outside of--, outside of Junebug and outside of the organization that, that they are not the center. You are--, we are here, LANE is here, everyone else is here to support this body, and I feel like you all have held that so beautifully, so thank you.
SC: One of the things that, that centering does, is it tells me that there's something about a Junebug way of being. (20:42) That there are values that you weren't going to deviate from regardless of whatever plan someone else had. Are there some things that you feel like are a throughline for your work, and your artistic work, but also that may also impact how the organization functions, like, staffing or, or infrastructure that you're like, We--, these are our core principles by which we operate?
SMA: I would love to know how Damia answers that question just because I'm like, maybe, are we stacking up to it? I don't know. But--. I will say something that's come up that I’ve, I, I appreciate, is honesty within the organization. Honesty about, like, where we are. I really appreciate that. Whether that's a difficult thing for me to hear as a leader or not. Sometimes honesty can be a lot, right? It's like, okay, slow down. (laugh) Slow down.
SC: I thought I was getting a tablespoon full of honesty, and you're offering a cup.
SMA: You’re giving me a cup and I wasn’t ready for it, but, but, I--. But I do appreciate it, because if nothing else, for me, as you said, what I'm looking--. So I'm learning a lot about leadership. I'm learning a lot. This whole thing has been great for me in terms of me, like a self-discovery about what it is that I need as a leader, how I am as a leader even. I hope it's helped me to be able to be and communicate with the folks that I work with better. You know. Like, let me, let me, okay. So let's sit down, let's talk bout this. I'm sensing. How do we get to. Here's why this was hard. Or, just yesterday--, was it yesterday we had this conversation? I was like, that was hard for me. (22:25) Right? You know, where I was like, that was real hard for me, but I wanted to give you space for something. That was important for me to give you space in that. And i had to sit with, like, not wanting all the answers a little, you know, I had to just sit with it a little bit longer. It didn't kill me. (laugh) It didn't kill the organization. We're still here. We love each other. (laugh) Right? Right? But it's something that I realize about myself. I’m--. And I think part of it also, that we talked about is the honesty allows us to be able to contribute to support of somebody in a better way than we would have without knowing. Like, I gotta be very honest with where I am so that Damia understands, Here's what I'm holding while I’m trying to figure out how--. I wanna figure out how to best support you. Communication is yet that other thing. and it's something we struggle with. Communication. For a variety of reasons. Not that we're not more than capable of being able to communicate, but we've been thinking a lot, and we've been talking a lot this year about vulnerability and about how appearing vulnerable keeps us and blocks us from doing some of the things that actually is more of a strength to us. I mean, we've been leaning into that a lot more of that vulnerability. Particularly in this past year's been challenging. You know, and maybe the people that are listening may not know, that in October of this past year, is when we lost our founding artistic director, and that that--. We were not expecting it. He was slowing down for sure, but that was very unexpected, and, and for the last several months, I've been actually dealing with that.
SC: Yeah.
SMA: Because honestly, when I came into this position, I thought I would be able to ask more questions. That being said, that level of honesty and vulnerability as, as a strength, not as a weakness, and as something that we look at like a core principle like that is something that is actually a strength, that vulnerability, for us, and I'm sure there are other things that are undergirdings for the organization, but I think that honestly in everything we do--. So that's internally, but that's externally. I drop the ball on something with a partner, no it's not okay. If I'm struggling with a partner, no it's not okay, but let's sit down and talk about it. Because the relationship is too important for us not to be able to sit and, and to talk about it. Boundaries. And setting clear boundaries. Which is something that we were, you know, boundaries broken every day. (laugh). Everyday. Boundaries were broken. And, you know, it came up, and I appreciated it. It came up. The staff members were like, Yeah, so just like these are the hours in which we wanna have, like, the communication inside of the office, unless it's obviously an emergency or something like that. I deeply appreciated that. Because even though Stephanie McKee may be fresh and bright as a daisy at six am, other people are not.
SC: Oh.
SMA: And you know, and it's not any--. You don't mean anything by it, it's just that. Hey, I'm really thinking; this is my best time. (26:01) It's not necessarily the best time for somebody else. I'm looking at Damia but not that. (Damia and Sage laugh)
DK: That's real. (all laugh)
SC: Damia's like don't text me at 6am.
SMA: But those are the things that are on top. Like, those are the things that are on top for me, I'm curious about.
DK: I think one of, one of the, one of our values, our values specifically inside of the story circle process is this idea of active listening, and how that has really--. I mean, it's in everything we do, the way we respond to our people and our communities. But it also was very present for me throughout the LANE process as we were in these meetings and in these discussions where that idea--, those sparks came up, those ideas of like, how other organizations were handling things or, or what they're looking to do, and the way in which we were able--. And I think this showed up for the other organizations as well, but just to connect it back to a Junebug value is the way we're able to, to kind of absorb and, and, and, and adapt and take these things, and I'm reminded of the idea of the pivot. The way that Junebug does that really well. Just our ability to listen and observe and be responsive to the information that we've taken in, to be able to figure out what works for us, what works for our people in a way that's very open, and I think that that, that has really carried us through our LANE process, even with the moments of resistance, you know what I mean? I mean, that's only natural, of course those things are gonna happen. But our willingness and our ability to be, like, okay, well this is what we can do. These are the pieces of this that work for us, and we can make it happen. Make it happen in our own ways sometime, but make it happen.
SMA: And make it happen beautifully, too. (28:11)
DK: Right.
SMA: Cause we're trying to not--. We're trying to so--. We're trying to be deliberate with it, too.
DK: Absolutely.
SMA: So, oftentimes you'll see us trying to slow down just because we're like, well wait, hold up. No matter what it is that we do, we don't want that to just be out in the world looking crazy, right, you know. We don't want anything we do to be out in the world looking crazy or have us looking crazy. We try to be really very deliberate. And try to connect the dots: in what ways is living up to the value. In what way is it supporting artists? In what way is it supporting community? In what way--. There's a, there's a bit of a system that's going on, it's a little invisible technology that's going on that is about making sure that things are connected to the larger vision and mission and goals of the, of the institution.
SC: I, as I was listening to you all, I started thinking about--. Particularly as you were--, between the two of you, like the values of responsiveness, openness, honestly, vulnerability, boundaries, like--. I don't know that folks often think about the importance of grounding their organizational operations in the humanity of the people involved.
SMA and DK: Mmhmm.
SC: And that's what I'm hearing when I'm listening to you all, and I'm really--. I think that oftentimes is, like, structures or do you have this CRM or do you have this, like--. And then you'll communicate better if you're using Slack versus ASana. You know. And you're like, actually no, we just actually need to tell each other and be able to tell each other where we are, what we're feeling, so that we can figure out collectively a way forward.
DK: Right.
SMA: Yeah. And how to support each other. It's interesting. So, in another life, I was working at a nonprofit community development corporation, and when I was there, I was working at a neighborhood center in the seventh ward, and I was always thrown, whenever there was something that was deeply human issue that was brought up. It was always--. They would always throw a pitch of some kind of technical fix for it.
SC: Mm-hmm.
SMA: And it was never a technical fix that was needed. It was never a technical fix. And I'm like, You do realize that whatever technology we have that there are people who are responsible for said technology that's going to make this thing happen. So at the end of the day, if we don't have a good handle or a good relationship with the people who are responsible for doing it, it's about, you know, as good as a used napkin. (30:47) That's about it, right? Because there are people who have to make these things happen. We can never really lose sight of the fact that it is people are the reason why we do it and people are behind our ability to do the work.
SC: That's a quote right there. That's a quotable. People are the reason why, and there are also people behind the work. I think that's beautiful. Thank you. So I'm curious, because there's so much about what you all bring to the LANE process, and what you brought to to these years that, that we've been collectively working together. What are, what are pieces that you have found helpful? Are there things about the way these four years have gone that has been helpful for you all? Or any of--. Even some of the components, just like, what about LANE was good for Junebug?
SMA: I--. You know, and I can't believe I'm even saying this a year after we got the award for Mellon. I'm very grateful for the process of Mellon. Girl, right. Exactly. I can't believe I'm saying it. And I'mma say it again because I, I, like on this other side, when I go back and I take a look at and well, I know all the fits, there are many fits and many tantrums and many rolling of the eyes and smacking of the teeth and throwing stuff down. (32:14) All of that happened. What I'm grateful about, because it was a rigorous process, and it was one that allowed you to think. I think my only criticism is that when you have to think that quickly about something that you never thought about, or you never had the time to think about, you get frustrated because you're like, I wish I had more time to think about that, right?
SC: OKay.
SMA: But the level of rigor that came with that, I'm appreciative for, because I can be on this other side and look at how we were interrogating things in a way that, for the time we had, I'm actually very proud about what we, what we had in there how we thought about it. I think it makes sense. I think it makes a lot of sense. And what I've learned since is that when we sit down and think about the things that are most impactful, it is not the thing that's gonna--. It's not necessarily the savior, it's not gonna fix all of your problems. It is, however, gonna give you a--. It's gonna bring you through a rigorous process and it's gonna get you to a place of inquiry that allows, at least it allowed me as a leader to think about the other things that can go in and fill gaps of the things not covered by Mellon. So I looked at that as, yeah, of course it's not gonna be--. It's not gonna cover everything. Of course not. However, it gives me really good building blocks to lay over a strategic plan that helps to build that, that has then a plan built into it for how we're actually gonna reach these goals, cause they're real good goals that we have laid out there. So that's what I've been most excited about, is how we leverage that for other funding, other, other places that we wanna concentrate on. We talked about innovation, right? (34:11) About innovation. We've talked about investment in the intentional changing of the language of, of funding or granting to investment, for you to see what it is, cause at the end of it, it is a moral document. You really are looking at, this is what we believe in. And so, by naming it investment, you see what we really believe in. And it, it changes the whole game.
DK: One of the things that had the most profound effect on me is, as a part of the LANE process and making the space for these organizations to come together and spend significant time with each other, to learn from each other, to learn from experts that were brought in. So, yeah, just being able to have this dedicated time to be in a room, sharing with folks who are doing work similar to ours and just being reminded that we're not alone in it. And that we have support.
SMA: Yeah. Cause it can be isolating. And I feel like there are different levels of isolation. I feel like as a organization you feel isolated for sure. And the peer to peer learning that's happened, I think that's a thing that I, I probably lament the most about the program is, and we've been trying to figure out, how do we continue to--. How do we keep that portion, how do we have license and agency to continue this intentional gathering of organizations, so that we're able to really share and learn from each other inside of that space. I think that has been, that's been actually beautiful, and I've always looked forward, I've always looked forward to that. I'm actually lamenting the end of that portion of it. (36:16) And, you know, maybe somebody listening might throw some money in that direction. (all laugh) Just fingers crossed. Hope springs eternal. But yeah. That, that part has been--. You know, thank you for lifting that up, cause that part has been really essential, the peer to peer learning as a, as a part of that thing to kind of, you have the rigorous process to get there, so there's the journey of, like, getting there, there's the what if this is possible, which is, I think very much to like how does change happen, right?
DK and SC: Mm-hmm.
SMA: It's like, is this even a real program, right? Is this a real program? I think they're just pulling our leg. And then from that to the, this is a real program, and we're inviting you to be a part of, or apply for this. Then from the application of, like, I'm not sure if this is gonna happen, wouldn't it be great, you know? And we sat there for a while with a like, What if question.
SC: Mm-hmm.
SMA: What if that actually happened like, wouldn't that be great? And how far, how quickly when they say, Yeah ,and then you have to put in the full proposal, do you fall away from that, Wouldn't it be great? And if that wonder, that amazement of the possibility of it, and because, because of the way that we've been conditioned on the inside of the work that we do, that as soon as the questions are asked of us, the place that we were like, Ah, this is amazing, what if, like, there are all these things we could do, we fall right out of that and into this other thing of feeling oppressed, and then, having the inability to really very surely lay out what it is that we're thinking about, and what the possibilities are for ourselves. (38:07) So I am still kind of amazed, and I have that question mark at the top of my head. What is it about--. What is it about that that we get out of one place and into another. I don't know what the answer to that is, but it is a reminder to me that we have to stay in that place of great wonder.
SC: Mm-hmm. That's a--. What I think sometimes happens is all the things start crashing in on us, right, like, all the, what we've heard, how it's supposed to be, all these things, and you have this opportunity, and I remember, I think we've talked about this in one of the other podcasts where, where folks received their, their change capital, which is money for an organization to try the things that they spend so much time and were so rigorous about deciding, and then when the money came, folks were like, I don't want to touch it. Cause I don't know what's going to happen next. And, and that, that's a conditioning, right? Like, that, that has happened. What does it mean for organizations who have been ignored or divested from for decades to suddenly have access, and the assumption as if that access is just going to--, all, all the things, all the emotions, all of the training that not having access is going to suddenly switch up. You know, it doesn't work that way. It's, it's the testament to all of you all that you all have worked your way through that.
SMA: Yeah. I had a conversation with my husband this morning, and I said, Listen, you're either getting paid or you're gonna pay.
SC: OKay.
SMA: One or the other. You gonna pay for it--, you gonna pay for it now or you can pay for it later. One of the other, and by that, I just mean, it's funny how funny we get about spending the money and also spending it and getting, like, the good quality of something that's gonna be lasting for the organization in some sort of way. Like really kinda going for it, and then figuring this other portion amount. How frightening it is for us. And we're not saying we're going crazy like its an open checkbook, but we're talking about, Okay, we don't have to just buy the, this end, this, you know, we can actually afford to get something that's really good and will be lasting and is, you know, not just okay. (40:28)
SC: Computers with more memory than just the bottom.
SMA: Exactly! Than the bottom thing. Or, you know, have to turn around and go get the used computers, which is what we were having to do before, right? Refurbished, we don't have to do that now, and, and in fact, it's better for us if we don't. It is a really funny place to get to, and to see how you could tightly wound you get. It's a real--. I don't know exactly what--, I don't know what that is. I don't know what that pathology is, but I know it exists, and I know--, I don't know. I know very few people that are part of the LANE program that didn't panic outright, including myself when it turned around and was like, how much is in the bank? What--? You know, something happened, you know what I mean. Something's wrong. Something's wrong right now. Yeah, it is a pathology. I'm not sure, but we've talked about it for sure within this LANE program.
SC: Beautiful. And we are, are heading towards, I like to say, the close of this portion of LANE, right?
These four years of sort of intense regular connectivity, orchestrated by NPN. Like I'm, I'm super excited about this idea of, like, folks organizing and continuing to be in community and connection and what ways we can support. And I'm realizing, when we wrote the grant, four years sounded like, Wow. Sounded lavish. Four years, you know. (42:11) And now we're at the end of four years, and I'm like, Where did it go? My goodness. And firmly believing that, that LANE has been helpful, I'm also really keenly aware of, were there things that we didn't get to? Were there things that you're like, Oh, if we had another two or three years, we would've, we would've explored this, or, I'm, I'm thinking a lot about what you were saying, Stephanie, around writing your Change Capital, which is a, which is a plan for you all for the next few years of like, the specific things around Mellon, but also that there were spaces that you were like, Oh, this doesn't get covered, but it's important to our plan, right? Important to what we need to move forward or, Damia, were there are spaces or things in your imagination that Junebug could have experienced this or still needs? Like, what, what sort of call would you make to the field about if LANE were to close, what would you want next?
DK: I remember doing an activity in one of our meetings about if we having our--. I think the recent one in Knoxville. Having gone through what we've gone through in LANE, how do we then shift and move things around, and I remember, even thought we were clear we needed all the time to get to writing the proposal for the change capital, some kind of way in some imaginary world, we'd also want just as much time to work with each other and, and, and continue to have these meetings as we move through utilizing the change capital.
SC: Ashe.
DK: And we've--we kind of, like, seeing it out to the end, to the end of that grant period and even beyond to sit and reflect with each other on what the change capital meant for us, how we started, and where we ended and things turn out the way we initially imagined them to. (44:11) So kind of being able to be together until all of that.
SMA: I have been wondering, like, there's this chicken and egg theory that I've been toiling with. Whether or not having the strategic, like, the strategic plan that has the--, beautiful strategic plan that has the --, that has a budget in there on--. Like, a real budget that would be like in order to make this, actualize this, here's the budget that we see for where our major investments will go. Ultimately, I'm happy that we have that, but I also wonder what would it mean to dream inside that strategic plan first. And be able to operate off of the things that came out of that strategic planning process. How that would have informed how we wrote that proposal for Mellon.
DK: Mm-hmm
SMA: Right? And then, after getting the funding for Mellon, the second part of it is, Yes you have that, and the Mellon funding is there for you as a kick off for that, and then there's this other institution, another funding institution that--. Everything named on the inside of the strategic plan that was helped started by, you know, like, Mellon and some of the things that are laid out that Mellon is funding a portion of, we were gonna give you this other pot of money to help actualize some things in the plan.
SC: Mm-hmm.
SMA: That's how I would--. I'm, I'm toiling over whether or not it was best to do it that way. I will share with you what we're--. What we went for was: Did the Mellon, did the dreaming, albeit fast.
SC: Mmhmm.
SMA: Did the strategic plan. (46:04) Here's what we laid out in Mellon, here's the strategic plan to support that. Here's a budget that, in order to actualize this, this is what you're gonna need. Definitely went through a rigorous process with that, throwing stuff like, How do you turn around and move the needle on your earned income? Like, by 30%. Like, how are you really moving the needle, right? And then for me, I went forth and was like, Okay, now, here's this beautiful strategic plan, this is how we're seeing stuff. We're really serious about it. Here's how we're investing. And then having people to come on board to support helping to actualize that plan.
SC: Mm-hmm.
SMA: I think it is a three pronged approach. I think it really truly is. And besides from your regular strategic plans that happen, having, like, a really rigorous going over the budget portion of that, what that would look like to match, I think is really very important. And so then it gets you to a place of not just, Here's a plan, good luck, but that this is something that's really very carefully thought about. You can wrap your mind about it. You can talk about it with license and agency. People understand it and are like, Yeah right on. Like that's something we can actually get behind. It's something we actually really wanna support. I think that's been our approach to it. We'll see whether or not that all works. We have fingers crossed it will all work itself out, but I think that we're in a good place, I think that we were really smart about how we were thinking about it. We challenged ourselves. We're very challenged by it. That place of excitement and fear, which I think is also--, comes hand and hand with the work is like, this, this is exciting. If we could pull this off, this is, like, really exciting. And, this shit is scary too, right? The same time? I think it's that--that's that area we stay in. I think we bounce back and forth, and if I'm being 100%, it's a place that gets me charged.
DK: Right.
SMA: Right? Everybody wants to feel like I might pee on myself a little bit.
SC: Yes.
DK: That's courage, right? It's not the absence of fear, but having fear there and still wanting to do it.
SMA: And still stepping into it. Yeah, and I think that's part--. I mean, if I'm being honest, I think that's kinda--. We're kinda, not really adrenaline junkies, but we are--.
SC: You're courageous.
DK: Very courageous.
SMA: We're courageous.
DK: Absolutely.
SC: And I have no doubt it's going to be not only just fine, but amazing. Primarily because one of the values you named earlier, Damia, was you all's ability to be responsive, right? So if something--, i know this, if something doesn't feel right, you all will be like, Hold up, let's figure it out, like, what's the most--, what's the next move, right? And so, I'm really excited to watch the future and watch you all continue to move. Shout out to Yancey consulting.
DK: Yes, yes.
SC: And Lisa Yancey, we're talking about the strategic plan a lot.
SMA: Yes. Wonderful.
SC: So, let's go ahead and name her.
SMA: Yeah.
SC: And the ways in which you all, you here Junebug, you, Stephanie, and you, Damia, really work with everyone who comes into your sphere to be like, This is who we are, this is what we're doing. There's never a moment where I think folks are just gonna hand you something without you all having a hand in it. You know, and I think that, that speaks volumes, and speaks to the way you all have come into this work, even coming back to your relationship with Adella back in the day, and you coming in these four years of just like, okay, we're going to make this. Or this organization is going to not only sustain,but going to grow and thrive and make sure our community is well cared for and in the midst of.
DK: Thank you.
SC: Thank you all. I really appreciate this time. Are there things coming up for Junebug that folks should know about.
SMA: We are going--, it's our 40 year anniversary.
SC: Woo-hoo.
SMA: We're going to be having January 25 here in New Orleans; we'll be having a big press event for the announcement of that and our season. We'll be, we'll be hosting a series of salons actually all around the country. We'll be doing these series of salons that will act as both fundraisersm but also friendraisers for Junebug and, as a way to connect to communities in a very small, in a smaller way. But for people to understand; they may have been at places where people have supported us in the past. And it's a way for us to get reconnected, so it's a little bit of a kind of get to know you again kind of a bit of a tour for us. Gomela, the piece that I presented, will be presented by 651 Arts in June of 2020 in New York, so we're very excited to be heading to Brooklyn. And also, we just got word that we're gonna be presented by the Charles H. Wright museum in Detroit, Michigan in the fall of 2020.
SC: Lovely.
SMA: So, it's a lot of really exciting things and then even more to that in the year after, cause you know, who can celebrate an anniversary in just one year, you wanna make it go as long as possible, but for us, it will be going into two years after that, and there's much, much more, but those are the things to kind of stay tuned for from us, and we might be in a city somewhere near you, so.
SC: Check it out. Well, I appreciate, again, the time that you all have taken, and I'm so appreciative of the journey and, and the trust and the courage that you all have stepped into and thank you.
SMA: Thank you.
DK: Thank you.
SC: Thank you for listening. Funding support for LANE is provided by the Andrew W Mellon foundation. You can find more information about LANE and the amazing organizations involved, on the NPN website, www.npnweb.org. This episode was co-edited by Amanda Bankston and Monica Tyran. jazz franklin is our podcast editor, and sound design by muthi reed.