SUMMER REPLAY: You Don't Need to Stop Procrastinating. You Need to Get Better at It.

If you have ADHD, you've spent your whole life being told to stop procrastinating. And you've tried. But starting two weeks early feels like nothing. No pressure, no relief, no reward. Just the nagging sense you wasted an afternoon. So you wait. The deadline gets close, the stress kicks in, and suddenly you can work. You finish, you feel incredible, and then you beat yourself up for doing it the wrong way. Again.

David's read: nothing here is broken. An ADHD brain needs a specific amount of stimulation to start a task, and a looming deadline manufactures exactly that. The threat is the fuel. The relief is the reward. Which changes the whole question. Not how do you stop procrastinating. How do you plan for it? How do you procrastinate more effectively? And when the pressure turns you into a monster, how do you give it a quiet place to go instead of pretending it won't show up?

Isabelle's husband Bobby joins the conversation, and they share what happened the day they planned around Bobby's project stress instead of fighting it. Every argument they would normally have had just... didn't happen. No self-control required.

A few minutes in, Isabelle goes quiet because this is suddenly applying to every area of her life. Fair warning: it might do that to you too.

This episode is a Something Shiny summer replay, back in the feed while David and Isabelle take their break.

In this episode:

• The difference between the task and the story you tell yourself about how it has to look
• Why doing the work early genuinely feels like nothing, and why the last minute feels like winning
• The monster, and why the goal was never to stop being one
• How Isabelle and Bobby avoided every fight in a day without using an ounce of self-control
• Why Isabelle is done sitting through baths she hates, and what that has to do with how you've been told to relax
• What David means when he says everyone with ADHD believes they're an imposter

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Wait, What's That? Here are some of the terms and people mentioned in this episode explained:

Task vs Emotionality David's frame for the whole episode. The task is the thing you're trying to accomplish. The emotionality is everything you pile on top of it. Your assumptions, your fears, your beliefs about how it's supposed to be done. If the task is sweating once a day, the task is sweating once a day. It doesn't matter if you got there in a class, on a trail, or by hauling groceries up the stairs. Deciding it only counts one way is the emotionality.

Wilfred Bion The psychoanalyst who developed the task versus emotionality idea back in the 1940s while studying how groups either focus or fall apart. David borrows it here and applies it to one brain instead of a room full of them.

Self-Medicating with Emotion Why procrastination works. An ADHD brain needs a specific amount of stimulation to do a task. Anger, anxiety, and excitement all raise your heart rate, which means they all stimulate you. David compares it to a cup of coffee. Waiting until the deadline is close manufactures the stress, and the stress does the job.

Delay of Gratification The part that explains why starting early feels so hollow. When you work under pressure, every step you take reduces the stress, so every step feels like relief. Do the same work two weeks early and there's no stress to relieve, so it just feels like you wasted an afternoon. Same work. Completely different reward.

Extinction Burst A behavioral term for what happens when the thing that always worked suddenly stops working. David's example is the TV remote. You press the button, nothing happens, and instead of going to get a battery you press it harder, faster, at a new angle, pointed at a mirror. The escalation is the extinction burst.

The Monster What an extinction burst looks like in a person. The fists, the stomping, the fury at a change you can't control. David's argument is that we all have one, that pretending otherwise is what makes it dangerous, and that the actual skill is planning for it and clearing the room instead of trying to shame it out of existence.

Relational Trauma What builds up over years of watching everyone else do something easily that you cannot do. Your brain does not tell you there's too much stimulation in the room. Your brain tells you that you're stupid, or that you're not trying hard enough. That's the injury this episode is really about.

Does cranberry juice prevent UTIs? Yes (and no). And one thing Isabelle learned on this internet rabbit hole: cranberry comes from "crane berry," named because the bilberry flower, when it withers, looks like the head and neck of a sand crane, a bird that feeds on the berries. Who knew? Full fascinating article here: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3370320/

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💬 What's something you've been doing the "right" way that has never once actually worked for you? Leave a comment on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, we read them.

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What is Something Shiny: ADHD!?

How many times have you tried to understand ADHD...and were left feeling more misunderstood? We get it and we're here to help you build a shiny new relationship with ADHD. We are two therapists (David Kessler & Isabelle Richards) who not only work with people with ADHD, but we also have ADHD ourselves and have been where you are. Every other week on Something Shiny, you'll hear (real) vulnerable conversations, truth bombs from the world of psychology, and have WHOA moments that leave you feeling seen, understood, and...dare we say...knowing you are something shiny, just as you are.

Something Shiny: ADHD!
SUMMER REPLAY: You Don't Need to Stop Procrastinating. You Need to Get Better at It.
Drop Date: Wednesday, July, 1, 2026

*this episode transcription was auto-generated and might contain errors
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ISABELLE RICHARDS: [00:00:00] Hello, I'm Isabelle, she, her, hers.

DAVID KESSLER: And I'm David, he, him, his.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: And we're two therapists with ADHD who sit down to have some chats about ADHD. We can't promise we'll stay on topic or be professional or even remotely mature, but we can promise that you'll end up looking at you or your loved one's beautiful neurodivergent brain in a shiny new way.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: This is not a therapy session. This is Something Shiny.

DAVID KESSLER: I love it. Can this just be the intro of you saying that and me freaking out about how amazing it is?

ISABELLE RICHARDS: So without further ado, welcome to Something Shiny.

DAVID KESSLER: In this episode, we're joined by Isabelle's husband, Bobby, who also has ADHD. Yay. Thank you, Bobby, for being here. We're talking about procrastination today, but a couple things to get started. We're gonna be talking a lot about task versus emotionality. [00:01:00] This comes from a pioneering psychoanalyst in the '40s, right around World War II.

DAVID KESSLER: His name was Wilfred Bion, and he's a pioneer in group dynamics, group relation works. He would look at groups and how they got off task or how they managed to focus, and he defined task versus emotionality as task was the thing that you were working on, what you were trying to accomplish. The emotionality were all the assumptions, emotions, beliefs, things that you did to get ready to work.

DAVID KESSLER: When groups get totally distracted, they don't do work. Aside from that, I think you're ready to start today's episode. Let's stop procrastinating, and let's talk about procrastination

ISABELLE RICHARDS: As we talk about task versus emotionality and, like, trying to separate how you think you should do something with the task itself, sometimes in my mind I feel like I can't, like, divorce the two. Like, I don't know... Help me understand how you can break the two apart. 'Cause, like, how do I put this? I think sometimes, um, something...

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like, I'm [00:02:00] picturing a task like exercising, let's say.

DAVID KESSLER: Okay.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Okay? Right? Like, for me to exercise in a way that feels like, you know, of all the other things I could be doing in my day, like, I want to make sure that it's counting for something, right? Or it's, it's worth this investment, right? And so I'm trying to...

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Sorry, my dog just

DAVID KESSLER: snored right

ISABELLE RICHARDS: into- An intentional, like, "Hey." You know what? Let's just, like, acknowledge- I'll just acknowledge this is- ... there's a fourth member of this podcast. It's Bez the dog. It's

BOBBY RICHARDS: the

ISABELLE RICHARDS: fourth member- And she's- ...

BOBBY RICHARDS: who's licking my knee.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: And she's just gonna do her thing and, you know, we'll just all accept that.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Um, so what I'm trying to say is, like, how can I, like... Like, how could I phone it in if for me the task requires I don't phone it in?

DAVID KESSLER: It's interesting that we're thinking about-

ISABELLE RICHARDS: I don't know.

DAVID KESSLER: Cha- Is that a bad example? Like, accommodations as phoning it in. And the difference here, and this is where I'd say what is the task of working out?

DAVID KESSLER: What would the task be for you?

BOBBY RICHARDS: We, y- we're still, you are and so am [00:03:00] I, we're still treating, we're still thinking about these things as if we don't do them we're doing them... If we don't do them the right way, that we're doing them the wrong way.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: I don't know. My, my m- my brain is very slow to catch on to this idea.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Y- I think it's really resistant to it.

DAVID KESSLER: Can we, can we use- Yes ... the example of working out?

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yes.

DAVID KESSLER: Because I think it's a perfect example for what we're talking about.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yes.

DAVID KESSLER: Um, let's say that your task is doing a class for 60 minutes or running five miles.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Mm-hmm.

DAVID KESSLER: Okay. And maybe even we get more specific, running five miles in, I don't know, 60 minutes.

DAVID KESSLER: I don't, I'm not a runner, so obviously I don't know if that's good or bad, but the task is doing five miles in 60 minutes.

BOBBY RICHARDS: Mm-hmm. That sounds hard.

DAVID KESSLER: Is... It does. It really does, but, uh- Does to me ... if you want to run out there- Yeah, it's probably, it's probably not hard for- ...

BOBBY RICHARDS: I

DAVID KESSLER: think that's really

BOBBY RICHARDS: easy ... most people.

BOBBY RICHARDS: But no, that sounds very hard to me.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Mm-hmm.

DAVID KESSLER: Well, it doesn't matter, uh, what you're wearing. Does it matter what time of day you go?

BOBBY RICHARDS: Hmm.

DAVID KESSLER: Does it matter if it's raining or not? Does it matter... There are lots of things that we can get caught [00:04:00] up in in terms of the emotionality, like I don't have the right mix, or my clothes aren't matching, or, um, w- w- whatever.

DAVID KESSLER: It- There- The task of running is just based on the task of running-

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Mm-hmm ...

DAVID KESSLER: for that long. So does it matter if you're doing it on a track or a mountain trail?

ISABELLE RICHARDS: No.

DAVID KESSLER: That's the emotionality. Does it matter if you're doing it- Oh ... uh, around the block six times or in a gym? That's the emotionality.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Huh.

DAVID KESSLER: And it's our view of how it needs to be done, the particular way, that's the emotionality.

DAVID KESSLER: The task in and of itself dictates what you're supposed to do. In most arguments, especially ADHD arguments, the task dic- dictates the structure of the argument. What are we supposed to be doing? What's the predominant task?

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Huh.

DAVID KESSLER: So if my task is walking-

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah ...

DAVID KESSLER: for two miles at night, doesn't matter how I walk for two miles.

DAVID KESSLER: I could be walking, watching a video.

BOBBY RICHARDS: Back [00:05:00] and forth, back and forth on the block, yeah, or what, or however, yeah, yeah. I

DAVID KESSLER: mean, it, it might be less effective with the video- Right ... because I could trip and fall, but-

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh, okay. So for example, let's say it is exercise, right? So it, it's just the fact that, like ... 'Cause I'm thinking back to, like, a goal that I set for myself many years ago, again, for mostly medical reasons, which was, like, it- I know I feel differently when I sweat once a day.

DAVID KESSLER: Mm-hmm.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: And it, I don't much care how I achieve this. It could be because I, you know, ran to the grocery store, or it could be because I, like, literally had to heave the groceries up and I sweat, right? But that, that feeling of some ex- me- like, muscle exertion needed to happen versus the idea of I need to make sure I make it to this class I've signed up for seven weeks in a row.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like, that's always been really, really hard, and that's been something I often, like, beat myself up over, turn into, like, some ... You know, I, it's ADHD stuff. Like, totally- So the

DAVID KESSLER: task for you is sweating-

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah ...

DAVID KESSLER: that you turned into the emotionality of sweating only counts if I go to the [00:06:00] class.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah. Or sweating only counts if I

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh, I so see what I'm doing. Sorry, this is, like, totally suddenly applying to, like, every area of my life, and so I'm just gonna be a little quiet right now while I absorb this. Could we, could we

BOBBY RICHARDS: actually, could we, could we reverse engineer? Why do we do this? Why, why does an ADHD brain do this? We punish ourselves for not following the right way.

DAVID KESSLER: So there's two different things that you're asking, and I think that it's a really important question. You're kinda saying, like, how come the ADHD brain is likely to even procrastinate in the first place? Yeah. And then the second question is, and almost, and why do we discount doing it differently? And I think those are two really important questions here.

DAVID KESSLER: Mm. And I think we look at why someone procrastinates. It makes a lot of sense scientifically speaking. The ADHD individual needs a specific amount of stimulation to do a task. Not enough and they need to self-medicate, and too much and they need to self-medicate in another direction. So if we think about your central nervous system that's responsible for basically stimulation felt in your [00:07:00] body, and the, the emotions that we can experience that actually self-medicate would be anger, anxiety, and excitement.

DAVID KESSLER: If you think about all those emotions, it's like you're not anxious with your heart not pounding, right? Right,

ISABELLE RICHARDS: right. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.

DAVID KESSLER: It's like a cup of coffee-

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Sure ...

DAVID KESSLER: or ADHD medication.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Mm-hmm.

DAVID KESSLER: But what the medication will do for some people is it will give them the level of stimulation without the anger or anxiety or excitement, so it can level a person out.

DAVID KESSLER: So people procrastinate to create the threat, uh, the threat or the risk to make it so that every moment they work towards task completion is actually alleviating stress. So there's no delay in gratification.

BOBBY RICHARDS: That's totally, that's how I, that's how I feel like my brain works.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh, yes. Like suddenly- Like

BOBBY RICHARDS: I'm like, check

BOBBY RICHARDS: because you're in this stress, you're like, "Ah." I'm a better person 'cause I've checked all these things off.

DAVID KESSLER: And now every time you accomplish something, you actually feel better. But two weeks earlier, if you had accomplished it, you wouldn't feel any different 'cause you weren't actually stressed out.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Right. It would almost be like a, "Ugh, meh, meh, I did the thing."

DAVID KESSLER: I just wasted an afternoon-

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yes, it's like- ... when I could have [00:08:00] done something else ... I wasted an afternoon. Even though you got just as much done, it's like, "Meh, I guess I just didn't work out."

DAVID KESSLER: But there's no delay of gratification, and now you can see accomplishments much more effectively and completely, and the procrastination makes sense in terms of self-medicating, so why do we wanna teach people to do it differently?

DAVID KESSLER: Why not teach them to do it better? procrastinate more effectively. I'm anxious now because I have a report. Well, aren't you supposed to not work on it till this Saturday? Yeah. Okay, so anxiety's not gonna help now. Do you wanna get anything ready for Saturday? Okay, I'll go to the store and get some cranberry juice or whatever the thing is.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Mm-hmm. I know, and I love the idea. I'm just smiling at the idea. Like, I kinda wanna be that person. Cranberry juice is the,

BOBBY RICHARDS: is the fuel?

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah, like, I know, you know what I need when I work on my report? Cranberry juice.

DAVID KESSLER: I just... You

ISABELLE RICHARDS: never know. A tall acidic- Hey, you need to lay

BOBBY RICHARDS: off the cranberry juice

ISABELLE RICHARDS: because you have a problem

ISABELLE RICHARDS: prevents UTIs. It's good all around. It just made me smile. I enjoyed that. Yes. But,

DAVID KESSLER: but it's about enabling the procrastination because there's gonna be a neurological impediment for it. Your brain needs to experience that threat to feel that relief.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Mm. So

DAVID KESSLER: it's super [00:09:00] important. We don't... That's why getting rid of it doesn't necessarily help.

DAVID KESSLER: But helping everyone plan for it, like, this is the day this person turns into a monster. Whoa, I know, I know, you just heard me say the word monster. Let's qualify that a little bit. We all have a monster part. Really what we're talking about is extinction burst. This is a behavioral theory that means when you're no longer getting the reinforcement desired, your behavior dramatically increases in frequency, duration, and intensity in an effort to get that reinforcement, and then if it's not met, you surrender and change.

DAVID KESSLER: The best way to think about this is with a TV remote. If you hit the power button, you expect your TV to turn on. That's the reinforcement. The moment you hit the power button and it doesn't turn on, you start dramatically hitting the button faster, right? Harder. You change angles. You might bounce it off a window or a mirror to try to get it to work.

DAVID KESSLER: If it works, you put the remote down. You don't change behavior. You don't get a new battery. The day it doesn't work, the day you go through that extinction burst and it doesn't fire, you surrender and get a new battery. Now, when we're going through an extinction [00:10:00] burst, that's the monster. We might be balling up our fists, stomping our feet, feeling really frustrated at the changes that we can't control.

DAVID KESSLER: We just have to survive those moments. It's really important to plan out being a monster effectively. We all have monster parts. Helping everyone plan for it, like, this is the day this person turns into a monster. We're gonna go to a movie or we're gonna go to the- You know, I'm gonna leave, give you time to be a monster, or because you're gonna be a monster, you better leave and go somewhere else and come back when it's done.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh.

DAVID KESSLER: You enable the person to have the emotions. They're not wrong for having them. That's how they're supposed to work

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh my gosh, so you're telling me that someone with ADHD can be like an out of control, angry, anxious, whatever person, emotional person, and that they don't necessarily have to change that.

DAVID KESSLER: They just have to channel it.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: And how they channel it is that they essentially, like, recognize they're going to do that and help everybody else around them sort of get on the team of either getting them out of the house or... Like, help me understand that [00:11:00] part.

DAVID KESSLER: It's agency around asking for what you need.

DAVID KESSLER: I'm gonna be a monster, so we can mitigate, mitigate variables, right? So I can be a monster in the middle of Lake Michigan where, you know, there's no light and there's no one around for several miles. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, i- it's okay. What can we do to mitigate the damages? Is it easier to find a quiet place to be a monster or not be a monster?

ISABELLE RICHARDS: It's easier to find a quiet place to be a monster.

DAVID KESSLER: And then all of a sudden you get environmental conditioning and you get training that you're not experiencing being a monster in front of other people, so it becomes less likely that the monster comes out in public places, rather than pretending like it won't happen and having it happen over and over again and learning that in public I can turn into a monster.

BOBBY RICHARDS: Or it's less likely that the monster status will piss off people around you and then cause a secondary explosion- Mm-hmm Mm ... that's, that spurred from the monster.

DAVID KESSLER: Yes.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yes. All right, so we're giving each other these, like, knowing looks.

BOBBY RICHARDS: No, no, no. Well, I'm- Yeah ... we're giving each other these knowing looks because last [00:12:00] weekend we, you know, I feel like...

BOBBY RICHARDS: And we kept in the, in the argument, in the, in the tenseness that we had last, last weekend-

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Mm-hmm ...

BOBBY RICHARDS: uh, where we had the screaming kid and then we kept going, you know, "You're spiraling. I gotta take a break." And so we'd take a break and then- We were,

ISABELLE RICHARDS: we were both, like- Yeah ... essentially going like, "I have ADHD and I need to think."

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, "I also have it- Yeah ... and I need to think." And also our child is, you know, needing child things. Is

BOBBY RICHARDS: a toddler and- Yeah, is needing toddler things ... is

ISABELLE RICHARDS: just being

BOBBY RICHARDS: a toddler. But it's interesting because I feel like without knowing exactly what we did, I mean, with knowing some of the things, why we did them, but I feel like now everything is so much more clear that th- today-

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Mm-hmm

BOBBY RICHARDS: we were, like last night you go Do you need to, do you need to leave? 'Cause I was st- I'm stressing out, not in a frantic way, but stressing out about these pro- this project I gotta get done.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Mm-hmm.

BOBBY RICHARDS: And you were like, "What do you need? Do you need to leave? Do you need us to leave? Do you..." And we figured it out, and there was...

BOBBY RICHARDS: I worked all day [00:13:00] here, and you, you- And I kept me- Yeah ... me and the

ISABELLE RICHARDS: kid busy, yeah.

BOBBY RICHARDS: Yeah.

DAVID KESSLER: And then how many fights did you avoid by

BOBBY RICHARDS: doing that? Zero.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Zero.

BOBBY RICHARDS: Oh, yeah. We didn't have any fights. Whoa. We avoided all

ISABELLE RICHARDS: of them. Oh, avoided, like, all of them. Like,

DAVID KESSLER: so many- And you did that without having to use any self-control?

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah.

DAVID KESSLER: You did that without having to utilize any energy in terms of self-control or inauthentic energy. You embraced the moment.

BOBBY RICHARDS: Yeah. I wasn't, like, stifling being upset, and there were, there were things today that I know could have been, you know, false triggers for a f- you know, for an argument.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Mm-hmm.

BOBBY RICHARDS: But they...

BOBBY RICHARDS: It was just like, uh, you know- Smooth sailing ... "Oh, hey, can you do this?" Like, uh, I mean, even as simple as like, "Oh, can you put a dish in the sink?" or "Can you put a dish in the dishwasher?" Whatever, you know, "Oh, yeah." And I feel like at another time it'd be like, "I'm sorry I don't do it well enough for you." "No, I'm not saying that.

BOBBY RICHARDS: What are you talking about? What are you fi- I didn't... Why'd you look at me like that? What are we..." You know what I mean? And it's not about that. It's about everything but that, you know?

ISABELLE RICHARDS: I'm smiling 'cause also like, oh, like, I don't wanna... Like, it's not about airing dirty laundry [00:14:00] as much as it's like-

BOBBY RICHARDS: No, it's airing dirty dishes

ISABELLE RICHARDS: it's airing dir-

DAVID KESSLER: I think, I think in a lot of way though, like, being clear about how, what this really looks like- Mm-hmm ... in real life is so helpful because everyone is thinking, everyone... And this goes back to the other question that you asked. Yeah. Everyone with ADHD believes they're actually an imposter.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yes.

DAVID KESSLER: That they're, that they're doing it wrong. I mean,

ISABELLE RICHARDS: I say that like I know everyone, but I

DAVID KESSLER: don't. Yeah, absolu- but it, but it's true, and all of a sudden when we start talking like this, everyone else thinks in their head like, "No, no, it's worse," or, "No, mine, my stories are different," or, or, "I have a worse skeleton in my closet."

DAVID KESSLER: And so all of a sudden when things like this start coming out, it's like, well, I... They, they turn into monsters and have to leave the house? It's like, yes. Mm. Like, we all do, and that's important to kinda honor. No one here doesn't turn into a monster. We're all monsters. Monsters Incorporated, right? Yeah. We are.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Monsters Incorporated.

DAVID KESSLER: Yeah. But we're not all bad monsters, and not all monsters are bad, and I think we have to start thinking about changing the way we think about these terms. Mm-hmm. The reason I bring that up is, Bobby, going back to your question, there's a lot of... I mean, using a bombastic word, there's a lot of relational trauma for people that grow up with [00:15:00] ADHD or other learning differences, right?

DAVID KESSLER: Mm-hmm. 'Cause ADHD isn't always a learning disability, but it, it also can be.

BOBBY RICHARDS: Mm-hmm.

DAVID KESSLER: You see everyone else learn and do classwork in a way that you can't. Other people can magically sit down and read a book, but you can't. And your brain as a child doesn't go, "Well, obviously you can't read a book because there's too much confusing stimulation in this environment so I can't focus."

DAVID KESSLER: Like, your brain doesn't do that. Your brain goes, "You can't focus because you're stupid."

DAVID KESSLER: Mm.

DAVID KESSLER: Or, "You can't focus because you're not trying hard enough." Mm. Or, "If you tried a little bit harder," or, "If you really just followed the rules like the person said," or, "If you just use a highlighter to cover every word, maybe you'll remember it," but not think about, you know, you're reading a book about Napoleon and you're thinking about whether or not you locked the back door for two pages.

BOBBY RICHARDS: Mm-hmm.

DAVID KESSLER: But there's a, there's a real difference, and it creates this conflict because once kids turn around, you know, boys and girls are different. Girls mature, of course, faster, but, like, right around the, you know, between 7 and 11 we'll say for kids, all of [00:16:00] a sudden their peers start normalizing their world and not their parents.

DAVID KESSLER: So their whole life growing up that them learning these individual ways and doing it their own way, like, it makes sense and it's okay, and then all of a sudden you go to school and you realize you're the only one. You're not

ISABELLE RICHARDS: part of the group. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, like someone's- You're not part of the tribe

ISABELLE RICHARDS: you're, you're weird. You're... Yeah. Something's off. Yeah. Yeah. And

DAVID KESSLER: so how is relaxation portrayed on television? How does someone enjoy a relaxing day?

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh, it's always wine and a spa. I get s-... I'm sorry.

DAVID KESSLER: And,

ISABELLE RICHARDS: and- I have issues with that ... yes. I don't even... I'll, I'll claim it now. I don't like wine.

DAVID KESSLER: And, and here's the thing.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: I don't. What's-

DAVID KESSLER: What's with

ISABELLE RICHARDS: owning it?

DAVID KESSLER: And can I put you on the spot for a second?

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah.

DAVID KESSLER: And when you were trying to do self-care, you tried to give yourself baths even though you don't like them, and-

ISABELLE RICHARDS: I don't like baths. I also don't like-

DAVID KESSLER: But it's associated- ...

ISABELLE RICHARDS: baths ...

DAVID KESSLER: but it's associated with a spa.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah.

DAVID KESSLER: And there's a part of us that thinks other o- other people or everyone else is doing it right.

DAVID KESSLER: We're just not taking in the input right. And I think- ... when we think about how we invalidate and we judge the way we're doing

ISABELLE RICHARDS: it- Do you know how many baths I've [00:17:00] sat through? Do you know how many baths-

DAVID KESSLER: How many more baths are you gonna sit through?

ISABELLE RICHARDS: That's a good question. Or- Maybe no more ...

DAVID KESSLER: or maybe you try a bath with a movie you've been waiting to see.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yes. Or you know why I like, the reason I convince myself I like baths, 'cause I like to swim. I like to, I love to swim, but I hate baths.

DAVID KESSLER: It, a bath and swimming feel like very different behaviors. One feels like sitting and not moving in water.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Exactly.

DAVID KESSLER: And the other one sounds like moving in water.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: I really dislike not moving in water.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: They both involve, involve water. That is exactly what it is. I hate not being able to move in water, and I, it bothers me. A shower is different, 'cause at least the water's moving.

DAVID KESSLER: Yeah.

BOBBY RICHARDS: Something's

ISABELLE RICHARDS: moving. Yeah. Something's moving.

DAVID KESSLER: You can pretend like you're flying if you close your eyes, and the water's moving all around you.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Whoa. That's like when you pause when you're watching snow fall, and you can imagine the building is being lifted up-

DAVID KESSLER: Oh, yeah ... and

ISABELLE RICHARDS: the snow is staying in one place.

DAVID KESSLER: Oh, oh, I have this fantasy- I'm totally good when that would happen ... all the time when snow is coming at me that I believe the planet is flying.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yes, yes, where I'm like, "Whoa," like, "We're flying at the snow."

DAVID KESSLER: We totally just saw something shiny.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: We did.

BOBBY RICHARDS: I love it. I love it. I've never actually, of [00:18:00] all the r- things that my brain goes and adventures off on, I've never thought of those things, and I love it.

DAVID KESSLER: So-

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Okay. Sorry.

DAVID KESSLER: Back. So but just go, just kind of consolidating, like, why the ADHD brain is meant and designed to procrastinate and why ADHD individuals often believe their naturalized humanistic thoughts are wrong.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: Mm-hmm.

DAVID KESSLER: Sometimes they are.

DAVID KESSLER: Yeah. But sometimes they're really not. Thank

DAVID KESSLER: you so much for

DAVID KESSLER: listening. If you ever have that thought where you think, "Hey, I have nothing," stop. Remember, you're something. Something shiny.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: That's right, just as you are. If you like what you heard and you want to hear more free episodes of this podcast, please subscribe, rate, and review anywhere you listen to podcasts.

ISABELLE RICHARDS: We're on Instagram as somethingshinypodcast, and if you're looking for more information, useful links, definitions, visuals, everything we can think of and [00:19:00] more is on our website at somethingshinypodcast.com, and it's all free. Thank you so much for listening, and we'll see you in two weeks.