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There’s a story behind every great business. We started the podcast, Stories with Soul, to dive into the wins, lessons, and secrets behind the success of heavy hitting leaders, entrepreneurs, and artists in our community. Join host Jamey Ice and co-host Jimmy Williams every other Tuesday to unpack another great story behind Fort Worth’s favorite brands. Brought to you by 6th Ave Storytelling.
00:00:07:04 - 00:00:27:20
Jamey
Hey, I'm Jamie Ice Fort Worth native musician turned entrepreneur and someone who loves diving into the stories behind great brands. In each episode, we sit down with the leaders, dreamers and builders who are shaping our community. Pulling back the curtain on their journey and the real lessons and tactics that got them to where they are today. No fluff, no highlight reels.
00:00:27:22 - 00:00:40:03
Jamey
Just real conversations with remarkable people about what it takes to build something that truly matters. I'm your host, and this is stories with soul.
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Jamey
All right, guys, welcome to stories for soul. Today we're excited to welcome the Susan Miller crappie and Jessica miller SL, the twin sisters behind Intuitive Ventures. Since founding the fourth based real estate investment and development firm in 2014, they've grown into a powerhouse with 1.5 billion in investments and advisory services. Is that correct? Yes. So crazy.
00:01:02:05 - 00:01:03:02
Susan
I know.
00:01:03:15 - 00:01:22:13
Jamey
Over the past two years, they've transacted and redeveloped 2.6 3,000,000ft², representing more than $226 million in capitalized value. They've acquired a four point 5,000,000ft² since inception, guys. So I know, like, numbers my brain doesn't even understand.
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Susan
Yeah, I know, same.
00:01:24:15 - 00:01:25:16
Jessica
Hard to wrap our head around it.
00:01:25:16 - 00:01:26:21
Susan
Yeah, yeah.
00:01:26:23 - 00:01:52:13
Jamey
It's pretty crazy. Specializing in adaptive reuse and industrial properties, Susan and Jessica have transformed spaces like Mule Alley in the four stockyards, the Foundry District into just amazing community hubs. Beyond real estate, they're passionate advocates for mental health, raising $1 million to the m2 g mental Health Initiative in partnerships with UT Southwestern Medical Center. Anyways. Their work their work has shaped North Texas in a big way and I am stoked you're here.
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Susan
Thanks for having us excited.
00:01:54:02 - 00:01:57:20
Jamey
Y'all have been on my list. I want to, like, sit down and pick your brain for a long.
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Jessica
I love it.
00:01:58:15 - 00:02:03:23
Jamey
I love it because I feel like we see we see each other at like events and things and very like short doses.
00:02:03:23 - 00:02:04:10
Jessica
Yeah.
00:02:04:12 - 00:02:09:02
Susan
But I also feel like even though we haven't spent a lot of time together, we all have the same headspace.
00:02:09:03 - 00:02:09:13
Jessica
Yeah.
00:02:09:23 - 00:02:13:12
Susan
Which is, it's interesting when you come across people like that, you're like, oh, okay.
00:02:13:12 - 00:02:16:06
Jessica
We're we also all started around the same time.
00:02:16:06 - 00:02:17:03
Susan
Yeah, that's true too.
00:02:17:08 - 00:02:20:12
Jessica
Yeah. So we're in a lot of like right there circles.
00:02:20:12 - 00:02:22:06
Susan
Yeah. Right. Yeah for sure.
00:02:22:06 - 00:02:33:22
Jamey
Both started in the real estate world we're doing I feel like kind of shaking up real estate for sure a little bit. Yeah. And it's like when you, when you meet someone, you like, meet someone who your soul just kind of resonates. Yeah.
00:02:33:23 - 00:02:36:04
Susan
Right. Like they're there. Oh, that's a good one.
00:02:36:09 - 00:02:45:03
Jamey
Yeah yeah yeah, yeah. I felt like the energy. Yeah I think for sure. The dream the same way for sure. Because sometimes I feel like I'm an alien in some.
00:02:45:03 - 00:02:47:00
Susan
Oh, no doubt we get to cheat twin.
00:02:47:03 - 00:02:48:23
Jessica
Yeah, yeah. Then you don't feel like an.
00:02:48:23 - 00:02:49:20
Jamey
Alien, you know?
00:02:49:22 - 00:02:57:06
Susan
Yeah. So I'll say somewhere and she's like, yeah, exactly. You know what else is like? That was really weird. But we don't think it because we both think it.
00:02:57:08 - 00:03:05:00
Jamey
But I will say it like we started around the same, but like y'all's trajectory, I feel like I'm still playing in the kiddy pool a little bit.
00:03:05:00 - 00:03:07:00
Susan
Oh well, we definitely not different pass.
00:03:07:00 - 00:03:11:01
Jessica
I think it's slightly different paths, you know, we're in the same or definitely in the same forest.
00:03:11:03 - 00:03:12:01
Susan
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:03:12:01 - 00:03:29:12
Jamey
Well so let's so I want to have a lots of questions that I want to unpack, but I want to like start at the beginning. You all are from Longview. Yep. And when I think of Longview, I don't think of like, big urban art fund development. Yeah. Oriented.
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Susan
Yeah. It's not the.
00:03:30:13 - 00:03:31:01
Jamey
People.
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Susan
It's not at all. So Longview, what we took away from Longview is really from our parents. Our parents. Well, I guess two things. One, our dad grew up traveling a ton. His he moved around a bunch. So a lot of our the way we develop is informed by travel. And so my mother's family's from Longview.
00:03:51:08 - 00:04:04:12
Susan
My dad was from a bunch of different places. He lived in Switzerland as a kid in Africa and other places. And so, we we were always kind of pushed to dream really big as kids. And then.
00:04:05:02 - 00:04:06:10
Jamey
Like, in my way, like, what do you mean by that?
00:04:07:01 - 00:04:11:07
Susan
I mean literally, we grew up. What do you want to be? You can be anything you want to be.
00:04:11:07 - 00:04:18:20
Jessica
Which I was like, probably, maybe not daily, but for sure. Weekly topic in our house. And those words use, you know. Yeah.
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Jamey
Like really like around the dinner table. They'd be like, around.
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Jessica
The dinner table or just, like, picking us up from school or.
00:04:24:14 - 00:04:43:03
Susan
Well, they didn't, so they never worked for anybody else. My dad was like an insurance salesman for like six months or something and was like this. He was back. He was no his insurance, his life insurance. He's like, this sucks. But anyways, neither of them, he went to college, never graduated. She never went to college. And so they became they were entrepreneurs their whole lives.
00:04:43:03 - 00:05:07:12
Susan
And so they never had, employees. So we were their employees, basically. So we just our, our love language as a family is to talk about business, like that's just what we do. So anyways, so they again, they had to find ways to make money. And so, our development style is very influenced by them because their, my mother specifically is very, much about like just make things better.
00:05:07:14 - 00:05:09:13
Susan
Not like start or not start over.
00:05:09:13 - 00:05:12:11
Jamey
Not like a tweakers. Yeah. She's tweakers the wrong word.
00:05:12:11 - 00:05:34:09
Susan
But like exactly. I mean we would she would, she'd rearrange the furniture in the house every three weeks. Yeah. Probably like that type of thing. Yeah. And so anyways, that influenced how Jessica and I, you know, we do a lot of adaptive reuse for sure. And then, and we've always been more artistic. So art's been a big, part of our, our lives.
00:05:35:05 - 00:05:46:04
Susan
And then Katie Murray, who I think you know, who, Jessica and I went to college with her. And she's one of our very best friends. And so when we started, we did a lot of travel. And then when we.
00:05:46:09 - 00:05:47:17
Jamey
Traveled a lot as a family.
00:05:48:02 - 00:05:52:01
Susan
We didn't start. We. There's five children. So my parents, like, please, just, you know.
00:05:52:03 - 00:05:54:11
Jessica
Survive or the youngest or the youngest.
00:05:54:12 - 00:05:56:13
Susan
Yes. Yeah. Which.
00:05:56:13 - 00:06:01:14
Jamey
I guess if you have five by at y'all's point, they're like, just y'all just doing your own.
00:06:01:15 - 00:06:03:23
Susan
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. They're like, just live. Just live.
00:06:03:23 - 00:06:05:12
Jamey
Which is probably some of your independence.
00:06:05:12 - 00:06:08:00
Susan
Yes for sure. Yeah for sure. But our we.
00:06:08:00 - 00:06:10:01
Jessica
Have three older brothers and then there's me and Susan.
00:06:10:08 - 00:06:27:18
Susan
Yeah. But so, anyways, so we had traveled a ton and seen a lot of really cool places, and a lot of it had urban art. And then we got to Fort Worth, and we're like, where? Where is it? So it wasn't didn't come from Longview and Katie. So talented. One day we're like, hey, we want to start doing like, large scale murals.
00:06:27:18 - 00:06:44:15
Susan
Do you want to try? And she's like, sure, I'll try. And then she did the first one. We're like, whoa, you're really good at this. So art influenced, art style. And then the last one is we both worked for Terri Montes. I worked there for eight years. Jessica worked there for for. He owns Trademark Property Company.
00:06:44:15 - 00:06:45:13
Jamey
Such cool stuff.
00:06:45:15 - 00:07:01:22
Susan
And he's especially, you know, in the 2000s like he was and still is, but very cutting edge in writing and making really creative places. And he also believes in public art and all that. And so that informed more of our institutional,
00:07:02:00 - 00:07:03:15
Jessica
Mixed use commercial real estate space.
00:07:03:15 - 00:07:13:00
Susan
Yeah. So it's kind of an amalgamation of how eras been influenced by travel. How about having a love for art and then Terri it's kind of a mixture.
00:07:13:00 - 00:07:31:19
Jamey
So but so young. Your parents like are encouraging you to dream and think. Yeah. And and kind of giving you a blank canvas versus like ushering you into, yeah. That's, do you kind of do you have, like, rhythms or things with your kids, like, is that how do you how do you like.
00:07:31:19 - 00:07:51:06
Susan
So Vivian, the other day, so Jessica has Vivian, I have Elliot, two girls. She has another little girl named Gigi, and I have a little boy named Ben. But the and is the oldest. Vivian is nine, and Elliot is seven, and Vivian the other day said, Susan, can Elliot learn what you do? What I learn, but mommy does, so we can have your company.
00:07:51:07 - 00:08:03:00
Susan
So they're already. Yeah. Thinking about it for sure, which Jessica and I had the we played business. That's what we did. We had like, that's a we would have whatever we'd have a restaurant today or the next day we'd have.
00:08:03:01 - 00:08:04:03
Jessica
We made so many different.
00:08:04:03 - 00:08:08:11
Susan
Businesses. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We tried to go on Shark Tank once. Yeah. We didn't make it. Didn't make.
00:08:08:11 - 00:08:08:15
Jessica
It.
00:08:08:15 - 00:08:09:21
Jamey
Yeah, yeah. Oh like like.
00:08:09:22 - 00:08:10:10
Jessica
Yeah. Legit.
00:08:10:12 - 00:08:11:11
Jamey
Literally. Oh yeah.
00:08:11:11 - 00:08:14:06
Jessica
And for an unbeknownst object. Yeah.
00:08:14:08 - 00:08:18:02
Jamey
You, you had like a like a product. Yeah. Yeah. Really.
00:08:18:05 - 00:08:19:04
Susan
So what we.
00:08:19:04 - 00:08:20:10
Jamey
Were this is pretty intriguing.
00:08:20:12 - 00:08:21:15
Susan
Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah.
00:08:21:16 - 00:08:24:06
Jessica
So like when we were in college, I think.
00:08:24:07 - 00:08:31:06
Susan
It was your product. I, Yeah, it's hilarious. And I found it the other day. I found all the prototypes.
00:08:31:06 - 00:08:45:21
Jessica
Yeah, but. So it was a clip that had, so it looked like a pin clip, you know, the back of a pin one side, and it went like this, and the other side had basically a grip on it, so you could put your sunglasses in it so they wouldn't fall out. So we always carried our sunglasses like that.
00:08:45:21 - 00:08:48:16
Jessica
Yeah. Yeah. And so that's what we invented.
00:08:48:18 - 00:08:49:22
Susan
So we would it's called glasses.
00:08:49:23 - 00:08:51:00
Jamey
Grab it.
00:08:51:02 - 00:08:55:19
Jessica
Now we can't. We had some pretty interesting conversations. Exotic which is like LensCrafters.
00:08:55:19 - 00:09:04:22
Susan
You know I think I think the IP still sits on my balance sheet at like $6,000 or whatever. I'm like, I spent that money. I was going on my balance sheet. I'm getting credit for it real quick.
00:09:04:22 - 00:09:08:20
Jamey
The that says so much about like you.
00:09:09:00 - 00:09:09:15
Susan
Yeah, I know.
00:09:09:18 - 00:09:14:07
Jamey
You have a balance sheet from how long ago was that?
00:09:15:03 - 00:09:23:22
Susan
We had 25. We had balance sheets and we were like 20 years old. Yeah. Like like yeah. There's there's nothing. Yeah, there's like nothing on them. But we had them. Yeah, yeah.
00:09:24:00 - 00:09:25:15
Jamey
We can like, did your parents teach you that.
00:09:25:15 - 00:09:31:00
Susan
Yes. Because my dad was entrepreneur. So again, as we know as entrepreneurs you've got to have a balance. Yeah.
00:09:31:01 - 00:09:51:21
Jessica
Like our friends are always like anyone in our life. They're always shocked by, like, just how openly our family talks about business and money. Like, we just it's just it's like talking about what you're going to have for lunch. Yeah. And that's been since we were. 2 or 3 years old. You know so that's just our, that's just our family talk.
00:09:51:21 - 00:10:01:02
Susan
Well and, and the whole nother time I bet my, our parents went bankrupt when Jessica and I were four. So, now.
00:10:01:04 - 00:10:29:08
Jamey
Stories with soul is brought to you by my company. Six App Storytelling, where we help entrepreneurs and small businesses grow through the power of storytelling. If you're stuck watching competitors get all the attention, or you're tired of wasting money on random marketing tactics that don't work, you're not alone. As an entrepreneur who's built multiple businesses, I know firsthand how frustrating it can be to have a great product or have a great service, but struggle to get the attention you deserve.
00:10:29:14 - 00:10:56:05
Jamey
Because here's the truth being good at what you do isn't enough anymore. You need a way to stand out and connect with your ideal customers. And that's why we created the Storytelling Pathway, a proven framework for story driven marketing that turns solid businesses into brands. People can't stop talking about it. So whether you're just starting out or if you're ready to scale, we can help you craft and share your unique story in a way that attracts the right customers and drives real growth.
00:10:56:07 - 00:11:02:09
Jamey
So if you're ready to stand out, visit sixth Ave storytelling.com today. I would love to chat with you.
00:11:02:11 - 00:11:02:21
Susan
We were.
00:11:02:22 - 00:11:04:11
Jessica
So we one thing we.
00:11:04:11 - 00:11:09:00
Susan
Do I mean it's a it's burned in our brain for sure because it's very formidable as a family. But this is how.
00:11:09:00 - 00:11:15:19
Jessica
Good they were as parents. So they had built this beautiful house. They went bankrupt because they invested into a luxury subdivision. They built.
00:11:15:19 - 00:11:16:00
Susan
An El.
00:11:16:00 - 00:11:19:17
Jessica
Crisis luxury subdivision in Longview and the national crisis when everyone lost their.
00:11:19:17 - 00:11:20:08
Jamey
Ass. Okay. Yeah.
00:11:20:13 - 00:11:41:07
Jessica
So anyway, but you can't take someone's home. So our parents had built this beautiful home, and then had, like, a tiny guest house next to it. And so they moved us all into the tiny guest house, because you can't sell a mansion with seven people and especially five children. So they moved us all into the guest house, and my mom made little cubbies out of our furniture, like, we had, like, bookcase.
00:11:41:08 - 00:11:46:10
Susan
The living room had five rooms in it because we thought it was the coolest thing ever. Yeah, we were.
00:11:46:10 - 00:11:48:05
Jessica
Like, man, we're like, living in a giant fort.
00:11:48:05 - 00:11:49:09
Susan
Right? Yeah, right. Exactly.
00:11:49:09 - 00:11:51:10
Jessica
Just like that for, like, maybe six kids.
00:11:51:10 - 00:11:51:20
Jamey
That's all.
00:11:51:20 - 00:11:52:12
Susan
You. Yeah.
00:11:52:13 - 00:12:04:05
Jessica
You just want your fun and your parents making to be together and be together and whatever. And then that's how. Then they rebuilt their, you know, their life and company from there and then turned into you a major success.
00:12:04:05 - 00:12:21:00
Susan
I imagine the the stress though, like I think about the stress of my, my mom, of course. But my dad, you know, they I had five kids, our oldest brother special needs. And then, there was four in diapers. And you have $0.
00:12:21:00 - 00:12:27:12
Jamey
I mean, oh, stress. Oh my God. And especially like your, your if he do real estate development stuff. Yeah.
00:12:27:12 - 00:12:28:03
Susan
Yeah.
00:12:28:05 - 00:12:30:23
Jamey
And if that's, it's not like you can go get a paycheck.
00:12:30:23 - 00:12:31:12
Susan
Exactly.
00:12:31:18 - 00:12:34:20
Jamey
Yeah. It's not like there's a salary coming in or something like.
00:12:34:22 - 00:12:40:18
Susan
I didn't graduate from college. So like it's not like he could be like, oh, well, I could go back to being a doctor or whatever. 85 years old. Yeah.
00:12:40:18 - 00:12:46:01
Jessica
I mean, it was he wasn't like super young and he wasn't super old. So it's like your only choice is to rebuild.
00:12:46:01 - 00:12:50:06
Susan
Early, figure it out. And he got so stressful that he did. Yeah.
00:12:50:08 - 00:12:53:08
Jamey
Amazing. So did you go to public school?
00:12:53:10 - 00:13:09:08
Jessica
Oh. So sweet. So we did public until third grade than private till eight. In public for two years, then private again. Longview is kind of interesting. There's really no difference other than than the environment, you know, I mean, even the private schools are not necessarily like Fort Worth.
00:13:09:09 - 00:13:10:20
Susan
You know, not they're not fancy.
00:13:10:20 - 00:13:26:02
Jessica
They're not fancy at all. It's just a different environment, you know, smaller class size, that type stuff. So our parents let us kind of pick courses. And I were always even though I wouldn't say we were as dedicated as we are now to putting in the work, we were always pretty good students. Yeah. You know, so.
00:13:26:04 - 00:13:38:23
Jamey
In your both went to TCU and got like so going into college where you had you decide you want to do real estate, I'm assuming you're like we're going to run our own businesses.
00:13:39:01 - 00:13:46:03
Jessica
Or was that the only that. So going into college, I would say Susan and I always said we were going to be entrepreneurs. That's how I describe it.
00:13:46:03 - 00:13:49:13
Jamey
So you so you knew that concept pre-college?
00:13:49:14 - 00:13:50:15
Jessica
Well, we. Oh yeah.
00:13:50:15 - 00:13:59:04
Susan
When people would ask what our what you know, because your dad's a doctor, my dad's a lawyer. Whatever they what's your dad do it. And I'm like, he's an entrepreneur. And like, what's that? And I'm like, I have no clue.
00:13:59:06 - 00:13:59:21
Jessica
And no.
00:13:59:21 - 00:14:02:01
Susan
Clue what that word means, but I know it's a word.
00:14:02:03 - 00:14:21:19
Jessica
He works for him. It's a job. Yeah. So, yeah, we knew going in that we, you know, wanted to be entrepreneurs, you know, did we understand exactly what that word meant? And, you know, down to the, you know, you're you're basically on your own. I don't know if we had that much self-awareness around it, but we knew we wanted to be entrepreneurs.
00:14:21:19 - 00:14:35:16
Jessica
And, we knew we wanted to do real estate and some capacity. You know, I think our parents thought maybe real estate would wane over the time we were at TCU, and then we'd end up doing, you know, going to want to be, you know, an executive for somebody else or whatever.
00:14:35:19 - 00:14:38:03
Susan
Looked at that PR once we looked at PR.
00:14:38:03 - 00:14:39:05
Jessica
Advice, I was.
00:14:39:05 - 00:14:42:13
Susan
Going to be a fashion designer was what I was originally going to be.
00:14:42:15 - 00:14:43:13
Jessica
We looked at architecture.
00:14:43:13 - 00:14:44:13
Susan
Yeah. Architecture.
00:14:44:13 - 00:14:47:03
Jessica
Yeah, yeah. So anyway, and then.
00:14:47:05 - 00:14:49:14
Jamey
What would you, would you both study finance.
00:14:49:14 - 00:14:51:02
Jessica
Finance and real estate. You both.
00:14:51:02 - 00:14:51:19
Jamey
Did finance.
00:14:51:21 - 00:14:55:02
Jessica
Yeah. And she had a concentration in Spanish. I had one in leadership.
00:14:55:02 - 00:14:56:05
Jamey
Yeah. Yeah okay.
00:14:56:06 - 00:14:58:10
Susan
Yeah. Which I can't speak any Spanish for the record.
00:14:58:16 - 00:15:00:13
Jessica
Yeah I mean I'm, I'm surviving as a leader.
00:15:00:15 - 00:15:01:07
Susan
Yeah. Right.
00:15:01:07 - 00:15:02:12
Jamey
Yeah, yeah.
00:15:02:14 - 00:15:04:05
Susan
Man I yeah.
00:15:04:07 - 00:15:09:21
Jamey
Yeah I wish, like, if I could go back again I would love to have done finance. Finance.
00:15:09:23 - 00:15:19:11
Jessica
It's just a good base. I can't say I use any of it. Yeah, these days, but it's a good base. And I would say to TCU's business school not to plug in, but there it's really good.
00:15:19:13 - 00:15:39:20
Susan
You know, I, I, I'd say it slightly different. I don't know that I learned a bunch in college finance wise, that I'm like, oh, it's amazing. But my out of the two of us, because you're going to our own business one day, we said, one of us has to special eyes in finance. And I am so glad that I did because, it it's integral.
00:15:39:21 - 00:16:01:12
Susan
It's very foundational. And it allows me to, especially in a, in a new business, setting, I can it's because we, we invest our own capital. But a lot of times we're investing other people's capital. Yeah. And it's very critical that, you can communicate in a way that they understand, which they understand finance. That's what they understand.
00:16:01:12 - 00:16:12:12
Susan
They don't understand what we're talking about with sold and stuff like that. And so it has, you know, they're like, what? So it does help like translate a little bit for sure. Yeah. For sure.
00:16:12:14 - 00:16:21:12
Jamey
Because, because I so I studied philosophy, which I love like oh yeah. Like I learned how to learn how to think. Yeah. It's I say like like business. And I never graduated and I was like 18 hours short.
00:16:21:14 - 00:16:23:02
Susan
Yeah, that's exactly what dad was.
00:16:23:03 - 00:16:43:15
Jamey
Yeah. But I feel like business wise, I've learned everything. Like, I have no need to go. Yeah, but I'm like, I would kind of love to go back and take some finance. Yeah, or accounting classes. I kind of wish I had done that. Yeah. So. So you are going go in study finance, study real estate, with the intention of.
00:16:43:17 - 00:16:45:09
Jessica
Having our own business someday.
00:16:45:11 - 00:16:46:09
Jamey
In real estate.
00:16:46:11 - 00:16:59:00
Susan
Real estate? Yeah, yeah. So when we, we graduated, we knew we're going to have our own business. We we were very, clear on our goals then, and we started working for Terry. We started interning when we were juniors.
00:16:59:00 - 00:17:00:21
Jamey
So you can't you started working with him immediately?
00:17:01:17 - 00:17:15:10
Susan
He was, so he was. We started. I mean, we started meeting with him as our mentor in, in our junior year, and then we interned for a year, and then we started working there, and we told him from the day he hired us, we're going to have our own company. And so it was it.
00:17:15:15 - 00:17:18:20
Jamey
And he was mentoring you in college? Like, how did that how did that work?
00:17:19:14 - 00:17:20:16
Susan
It is so.
00:17:20:16 - 00:17:22:06
Jamey
Hey, how does he have time to, like, let me.
00:17:22:09 - 00:17:24:17
Jessica
I really give him time. We just said.
00:17:24:19 - 00:17:29:06
Susan
You're going to mentor us. Yes. Yes.
00:17:29:20 - 00:17:31:03
Jamey
So, so much about y'all's person.
00:17:31:03 - 00:17:36:18
Susan
Exactly. Well, and, you know, like, two twin freaks, we're like, you're going to mentor us, and, he's.
00:17:36:18 - 00:17:37:09
Jamey
Like, okay.
00:17:37:09 - 00:17:54:20
Susan
Yeah. His dad was an identical twin, so he was very used to the twin dynamic. And again, Jessica and I were very by the time we graduated college, we were pretty much the type of people we are now, which is very hard charging, very, intense, goal oriented. Look you in the eye, like, this is what I want to do type thing.
00:17:54:20 - 00:18:12:21
Susan
So it's kind of hard. He really he couldn't hide from us like we wouldn't let him. But, what was I gonna say? But. Oh, but we told him that we were going to work for ourselves soon. And so we made a goal that in two years we'd worked for somebody for two years, and then we started a business.
00:18:13:01 - 00:18:36:20
Jamey
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Jamey
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Jamey
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00:20:03:05 - 00:20:05:09
Jamey
All right back to our conversation.
00:20:05:11 - 00:20:17:02
Susan
And you know how short two years is. You're like Jesus I don't know anything yet. Yeah. So when we worked a lot longer obviously for him, and then started our own gig eight, eight years later, you.
00:20:17:03 - 00:20:19:09
Jamey
Wound up as, like, head of finance.
00:20:19:16 - 00:20:35:21
Susan
I was, when I ended, I was, VP of finance, and then I switched over to. I wanted to be a developer, obviously. So then I switched over to development. I had that if I was going to work anywhere, that would have been the company that I would have worked for, worked at for forever.
00:20:37:01 - 00:20:52:06
Susan
But my towards the end, my good days weren't as good in my bad days or worse, because I was obsessed with having my own business. And I just, one day I called Jessica. I said, I, I've got to do it. I've got to try. If even even if I fail, I don't really care. I've got to at least do it.
00:20:52:06 - 00:21:00:13
Susan
And I was 28 and, I had like 250,000 saved and we had no children. And so I just.
00:21:00:13 - 00:21:05:17
Jamey
Needed time to do it. Time to do it. You had stacked years at this point of like dipping your toes in all the waters.
00:21:05:17 - 00:21:18:11
Susan
Oh, yeah. And I told everybody, we're having our own business. We're having our own business. So when we found our first deal, I mean, the way we we raise capital from 19 investors and it basically was people that I worked with throughout the years.
00:21:18:12 - 00:21:20:12
Jamey
19 investors. Yes.
00:21:20:22 - 00:21:24:22
Susan
And none of them invested because of the deal. They said, we're investing in the jockey, not the horse.
00:21:25:00 - 00:21:26:13
Jamey
First it was at the Magnolia property.
00:21:26:13 - 00:21:34:18
Susan
No, that was that was one of the first ones. Our very first one was on Wasik Street. Where's that? And it was over by white settlement. It's like that industrial area.
00:21:34:20 - 00:21:36:05
Jessica
Everywhere where Fort Brewing was.
00:21:36:05 - 00:21:44:19
Susan
Yeah. Is our first deal is a crazy story. You'll love this story. Here's to me. Okay, so, and it was our first deal. So think about that. So we're.
00:21:44:19 - 00:21:51:23
Jessica
Like, in a tiny co-working space, like, no bigger than this. Actually, smaller than this room was, like computers. And we had, like, a social media intern.
00:21:51:23 - 00:22:09:01
Susan
There's so much I've had to tell you that's going to blow your mind. So I'm not going to go into the dad thing about, you know, him taking your money, but, no, it's good. It's a positive thing. It shows again how we were raised in business. Yeah. So just set the stage. We I leave it start mtg.
00:22:09:01 - 00:22:09:22
Susan
Jessica comes.
00:22:10:00 - 00:22:15:08
Jessica
Now. Let's let's back up. Suzanne leaves and starts Miller commercial and looks at loop net.
00:22:15:15 - 00:22:19:20
Susan
No, I literally I got to I had no business plan. I just rented a little.
00:22:19:20 - 00:22:22:07
Jamey
It was you have some savings. You're living off a savings.
00:22:22:09 - 00:22:23:13
Susan
Have a savings. Yeah.
00:22:23:15 - 00:22:25:06
Jamey
Any deals? You're not like no deals.
00:22:25:06 - 00:22:29:22
Susan
I was like, no. I looked at loop net and I literally was a Zillow. I was like, am I going to buy houses? What am I going to do? I have to.
00:22:29:22 - 00:22:30:15
Jamey
Buy something.
00:22:30:18 - 00:22:42:14
Susan
Buy something and sell it literally. So I like bought a printer and like a computer. Yeah, get on GoDaddy. And I'm like, I need an email, you know, whatever. So we do that. So here for five months, I'm looking for deals.
00:22:43:03 - 00:22:52:20
Jessica
You're missing a critical part of the story. I'm just saying. So this was for two months, and then I quit my job and then came over and. Yes. And we started. So. Yes.
00:22:52:20 - 00:22:55:20
Jamey
Yes. You quit. You're both kind of burned the ships. Yeah.
00:22:55:20 - 00:22:58:09
Jessica
We're going around the same time. Yes. About two months.
00:22:58:09 - 00:23:04:12
Susan
Yeah, yeah. And even though she was working it, I mean I was giving her like hourly updates, texting her like here's what I did today.
00:23:04:12 - 00:23:05:07
Jessica
Like this deal.
00:23:05:08 - 00:23:07:06
Jamey
Was the plan. You're always going to work together. Yeah.
00:23:07:07 - 00:23:27:01
Susan
Okay. Yeah. I mean, we wouldn't we would it? I think we could do it. Like each of us individually could do it. We just would not be near as good. Be way less fun. And it suck. Yeah, it just would be. Which, I mean, you have a partner, obviously. It's really hard. Very lonely without a partner.
00:23:27:01 - 00:23:49:15
Susan
So, like. Jesus. But anyways, so, we come across this deal. It's an off market deal, and it's an 80,000 square foot, shitty industrial deal. And, we go and raise capital for it, and people, for 19 people. And one of them was their dad. And, we have no balance sheet, as you know.
00:23:50:05 - 00:23:51:00
Susan
And so it comes time.
00:23:51:00 - 00:23:52:19
Jessica
We did have a balance sheet. There was nothing on it.
00:23:53:00 - 00:24:12:18
Susan
Yeah. So it comes out to guaranteeing the debt. And so I'm like, sure, we need to guarantee the debt. So I'm like, dad, I'll pay you 50% of the promote, which I'll explain what everybody else is promoted. And second, if you will guarantee this debt, and the promote we were underwriting like 300 grand, so I was like, okay, 150 grand for it.
00:24:12:18 - 00:24:30:10
Susan
It's my our first deal, like whatever. So he says, okay, and so then we start our business plan, we own it for two months. And long story short, we were we were leasing it. And then someone came and said, I don't want leasing, I want to buy it. And he says, not for sale. And they said, how much would it be?
00:24:30:10 - 00:24:44:04
Susan
So we looked at the underwriting of what we would sell it for. And five years after we redid it all and gave him that number, he said like $1 million. Last we said no. And then that afternoon, he wired $1 million into the title company without a signed contract.
00:24:44:22 - 00:24:47:02
Jamey
For the for the five year number.
00:24:47:04 - 00:24:47:18
Susan
So we bought.
00:24:47:18 - 00:24:49:01
Jamey
It. But you hadn't fixed it up.
00:24:49:06 - 00:24:54:22
Susan
We bought it for 3.7 and sold it for 5.9. And there are marketing 60 days later.
00:24:54:23 - 00:24:55:08
Jessica
Yeah.
00:24:55:14 - 00:24:56:04
Jamey
No.
00:24:56:04 - 00:24:57:05
Jessica
Why? Yes.
00:24:57:05 - 00:25:06:18
Susan
Yeah. You know, it's first deal. So we're like we're geniuses. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Which of course we found out later God was like, I'm going to give you this one because you're going to some hardwoods later.
00:25:06:21 - 00:25:09:21
Jessica
The funny part about that too, during that time period.
00:25:09:23 - 00:25:11:16
Jamey
So what year was that?
00:25:11:18 - 00:25:13:10
Susan
2014 okay.
00:25:13:10 - 00:25:16:21
Jamey
So I feel like that was a good there was like deals. Yeah.
00:25:16:21 - 00:25:17:22
Susan
Right. Yes. Yes.
00:25:17:23 - 00:25:27:15
Jessica
You can buy stuff that was actually you know good basis. But anyway so we we receive this offer and we call our dad. We're like dad, we just received this offer for like 5 million. We told them we would take six.
00:25:27:15 - 00:25:30:23
Susan
Our dad's been our advisor. Like our mentor. He's like, man, you.
00:25:30:23 - 00:25:39:08
Jessica
Should take that immediately. We're like, we don't think we should do it. He's like, I really, I really think you should take that. And we're like, we're going to turn it down. He's like, okay, we hang up the.
00:25:39:08 - 00:25:40:05
Susan
Phone.
00:25:40:06 - 00:25:49:12
Jessica
And then we tell our broker, and she goes back and delivers the news. And that's when he said that. But it was like nail biting for about for about two hours. We're like, are we idiots?
00:25:49:12 - 00:25:53:21
Susan
Yeah. So then everybody thought we were smart, which we, you know, we were lucky and.
00:25:53:21 - 00:25:55:07
Jessica
Right place at the right time. We did good.
00:25:55:07 - 00:26:20:11
Susan
Luck. His hard work. Yeah. But so then the even more funny story, I think even though it's obviously like way open kimono. So the promote on the deal, was a million bucks. It was not 300 grand because we sold it so quickly. And so we have to write a check for $500,000. And so I go to dad and I'm like, hey, dad, like, this is, you know, you only did it for two months.
00:26:20:11 - 00:26:24:20
Susan
And, you know, we're starting our business. Like, maybe we, like, modify the deal or something. He's like, nope.
00:26:25:18 - 00:26:26:04
Jamey
Yeah.
00:26:26:04 - 00:26:29:12
Susan
You write me that check. Good for him. Yeah, I know, well, he he.
00:26:29:14 - 00:26:38:02
Jessica
Wanted us to make it on our own. Yeah. You know, I mean, I think we've we've been blessed that we have a family that if something really terrible happened, we would have. Yeah. You have.
00:26:38:02 - 00:26:39:06
Susan
To say. Yeah.
00:26:39:07 - 00:26:51:09
Jessica
But they've never wanted to take any. Take any. Never wanted us to have had any doubt in our mind who did the work to get here. And so that's how you were raised?
00:26:51:14 - 00:26:54:18
Susan
Yeah. I still would have liked that. Yeah. Have been, I know. Yeah.
00:26:54:20 - 00:26:55:16
Jessica
Wait a minute.
00:26:55:18 - 00:27:05:11
Jamey
I always say, like, one of the best things that ever happened was when my parents cut me off. Yeah. When I, when I dropped out of college, they were like, now you're done. Yeah. Every.
00:27:05:13 - 00:27:07:09
Susan
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:27:07:11 - 00:27:08:22
Jessica
And it forces you to go. I agree.
00:27:09:00 - 00:27:10:23
Jamey
And it was like the best, the best thing ever happened.
00:27:11:00 - 00:27:11:15
Susan
Yeah, yeah.
00:27:11:17 - 00:27:12:21
Jamey
I was so poor like.
00:27:12:21 - 00:27:13:23
Susan
Yeah, yeah. Loved it.
00:27:14:00 - 00:27:17:06
Jamey
Yeah yeah I didn't I don't know, I didn't love at the time. But in.
00:27:17:06 - 00:27:19:05
Susan
Hindsight yeah.
00:27:19:06 - 00:27:19:22
Jamey
Such a goodness.
00:27:19:22 - 00:27:28:13
Susan
Well and it and it you have to answer the question yourself. What am I going to do. No one's going to tell me what to do and no one's going to put me there anymore. I've got to figure it out.
00:27:28:13 - 00:27:35:03
Jamey
To figure it out. Yeah. So, yeah. So you now have cash, you now have like, yeah, I made some cash and you can go.
00:27:35:06 - 00:27:38:06
Susan
So then we because we were worried about taxes.
00:27:38:07 - 00:27:39:18
Jamey
Had you 1031 that we ten.
00:27:39:18 - 00:27:42:12
Susan
31 did people get all that. Yes I did all of them.
00:27:42:12 - 00:27:44:02
Jamey
Degree. Oh 19 people do, yes.
00:27:44:02 - 00:27:48:01
Susan
But everybody was like, we made so much money. Oh my God. Well, they.
00:27:48:01 - 00:27:52:23
Jessica
Had given us their money, assuming I was maybe locked up for at least three years. So getting them to agree wasn't that big.
00:27:52:23 - 00:27:55:08
Susan
Of a it was administratively a strain of the IRS.
00:27:55:08 - 00:27:58:20
Jessica
They're all like, we didn't assume we would get this back anyway. So let's keep rolling it.
00:27:58:20 - 00:28:20:02
Susan
Yeah, I nobody want to say short term short term gains. Yeah. So then we 1031 two and then 1031 Max rules are you can, do up to 200% of the sale price. So then all of a sudden we had $12 million of buying power. So we went from having I'm looking at Zillow and this is again, you know, Fort Worth was not you remember Fort Worth ten years ago.
00:28:20:02 - 00:28:28:05
Susan
There was a big difference in the investment. It was pretty interesting. Like there wasn't a lot of people trying to buy a bunch of urban stuff and whatever.
00:28:28:10 - 00:28:31:15
Jamey
Like us in 2017, 2018 IT guy. Yeah. Way.
00:28:31:15 - 00:28:51:06
Susan
Yes. Yeah, yeah. But so we were trying we were trying to spend $12 million in 60 days or whatever. So all of a sudden, you know, brokers in the in Fort Worth market are like, where did these people come from? You know? And so then it then that kind of established, we bought three assets. One was Magnolia.
00:28:51:17 - 00:28:53:08
Susan
One was sooner.
00:28:53:08 - 00:28:54:07
Jessica
Carroll was the first.
00:28:54:07 - 00:28:55:09
Susan
Asset and then the foundry.
00:28:55:09 - 00:28:56:07
Jessica
Like Himeno was.
00:28:56:08 - 00:29:05:05
Susan
Yeah. And then one was a Best Buy. We bought the Best Buy at the intersection of I to 820. You know, talking about.
00:29:05:05 - 00:29:06:05
Jamey
Bought that best.
00:29:06:07 - 00:29:08:21
Jessica
Oh yeah. Man. And it was a great deal.
00:29:08:21 - 00:29:09:17
Jamey
Are you serious. Yeah.
00:29:09:18 - 00:29:11:20
Jessica
Screamer. This is before Best Buy had its demise.
00:29:11:20 - 00:29:12:14
Susan
Yeah, yeah.
00:29:12:19 - 00:29:14:20
Jamey
They were you leasing it back to Best Buy.
00:29:14:22 - 00:29:35:08
Susan
Yeah. So Best Buy is cash flow play. So we like it was like an eight cap or something. So we took again people thought we were super smart. We took like the profits that we made and invested them and portion and like Magnolia and Carroll value and a portion and cash flowing deal. So and people started getting distributions like immediately know like what's happening.
00:29:35:16 - 00:29:40:16
Susan
And then we ultimately sold best Buy because we knew where that was going. But, yeah, that's what was a good deal, though.
00:29:40:17 - 00:29:41:15
Jamey
I didn't know you did the best.
00:29:41:16 - 00:29:49:01
Jessica
Oh yeah. Yeah, that was a random one. That was the only there's probably some other randoms in there, but yeah, yeah. Every now and then we end up with something that doesn't fit.
00:29:49:01 - 00:29:52:19
Susan
Our entrepreneurship shows. Yeah, a little too much. You're like, oh man, they're entrepreneurs.
00:29:52:19 - 00:29:53:17
Jamey
Doesn't have the soul.
00:29:53:18 - 00:29:54:09
Susan
Yeah, exactly.
00:29:54:09 - 00:30:02:15
Jamey
Yeah. Because but I remember when your bot. So Tim Harvard was a friend of mine. And I remember him saying like, yeah, these two sisters are buying the building.
00:30:02:17 - 00:30:03:14
Susan
This is the Magnolia guy.
00:30:03:14 - 00:30:08:13
Jamey
Yeah, yeah. And I know you got it. Anyways, I just, I and that was the first time I heard about John. He was like, they're buying the building.
00:30:08:14 - 00:30:09:21
Jessica
That was a really cool building.
00:30:10:00 - 00:30:11:17
Jamey
You'll put him a big old are on it.
00:30:11:17 - 00:30:12:00
Susan
Yes.
00:30:12:02 - 00:30:21:08
Jessica
On it. That was part of our dreamer series. That was Follow Your Dreams. And we had Katie come and do a community mural and we opened it up on Martin.
00:30:21:08 - 00:30:22:08
Susan
Luther King Day.
00:30:22:10 - 00:30:27:16
Jessica
And everyone submitted community. You know what they wanted, what they wanted to do.
00:30:27:19 - 00:30:29:00
Susan
That's what we had the peace machine.
00:30:29:00 - 00:30:34:21
Jessica
Yeah. We had the the peace machine. We had a piano cam. We had this lady come like jam out was Katie painted. It was super.
00:30:34:21 - 00:30:51:05
Susan
Cool again, because we love to travel. We would see like you go to Amsterdam and you see like, you know, a community piano, you know, stuff like that. And we're like, man, we want one of those. So of course we got one. And then we painted it, and then we just move it around our properties and set it outside so people could play it randomly on my.
00:30:51:05 - 00:30:53:23
Jessica
It's so cool. It's life. So after I left trademark.
00:30:53:23 - 00:30:54:16
Susan
Then it got redone.
00:30:54:20 - 00:31:11:19
Jessica
As much as Susan. I sat there for four years and then I went to open Realty Advisors in Dallas, and I traveled a whole bunch, like around the United States, seeing all the best real estate from a retail perspective, primarily all the best neighborhoods, all the gritty neighborhoods. And that's any other urban market you go to that's everywhere.
00:31:11:23 - 00:31:29:17
Jessica
You know, like we just had none of it here. We've just had a huge dearth of it. So it was when we started getting engaged, and doing a lot of adaptive reuse. There were so many examples to pull on from other cities in the United States. To go like, this is not this far fetched, and everybody can get behind art.
00:31:29:18 - 00:31:31:01
Jamey
But but here, that was a.
00:31:31:01 - 00:31:32:10
Susan
New it was very.
00:31:32:12 - 00:31:39:11
Jamey
Very it was very like, yeah making these like fun spaces and yeah retail and putting in in like color.
00:31:39:14 - 00:31:41:07
Susan
Like didn't exist. It's weird.
00:31:41:07 - 00:31:44:14
Jamey
It totally did not it. Yeah. And y'all were kind of pioneers.
00:31:44:16 - 00:31:45:00
Susan
Yeah.
00:31:45:04 - 00:31:46:19
Jamey
In that in a big way.
00:31:47:00 - 00:32:11:08
Susan
Well it was, it made things better. That much better than they were I mean if you remember. So we bought the foundry. And that was over 13 different assemblages. But, the buildings in the middle where Inspiration Alley is, those were just the backs of, like, piece of shit buildings in an alleyway. And so we decided to do inspiration Alley, and I think we spent 30 grand on Inspiration Alley with all the artists.
00:32:11:08 - 00:32:17:23
Susan
Thank you artists, because y'all were amazing. And transformed it into this fun.
00:32:17:23 - 00:32:19:00
Jamey
Yeah. Vibrant.
00:32:19:01 - 00:32:19:19
Susan
And it but.
00:32:19:19 - 00:32:38:07
Jessica
Even before that, when we purchased. So we had bought 200 Carol mono and all that was in the stuff across the street where docks, records and black land and all that was coming out. But it was an old family storage, literally. That's basically what it was. So as soon as we bought it, we decided to paint it multicolored.
00:32:38:09 - 00:32:44:11
Jessica
And people were like, why are you doing that? We're like, because that's the only way people are gonna stop looking at this like an old, dirty warehouse. And that's what we did. Like we said, we.
00:32:44:11 - 00:32:45:23
Susan
Didn't have a lot of money and.
00:32:45:23 - 00:33:11:06
Jessica
Ten grand to, like, immediately change perception. Yeah. So that project were jumping around a little bit. But that project in particular was there's so many case studies on that project. We've used it so many other projects because it's like, especially with our team, as they're getting a lot of our team comes around institutional background, entrepreneurial bent. Because to work at MTG and be successful, you kind of have to have that builder's mindset.
00:33:11:07 - 00:33:30:01
Jessica
Yeah. But we use that project as so many examples about like, it's not about how much money you have to throw at something. It's about the intent and your thoughts around it and doing something different and thought provoking and then stretching that dollar so that same dollar you were going to spend anyway on white paint now actually made somebody go.
00:33:30:04 - 00:33:31:01
Jamey
Make it, make it interesting.
00:33:31:03 - 00:33:32:07
Susan
Yeah, yeah yeah yeah.
00:33:32:07 - 00:33:35:22
Jessica
It's interesting. There's a ton of examples on that project. But yeah.
00:33:35:23 - 00:33:58:12
Jamey
Yeah I mean I just think in general like like when we did brewed the. Yes. Like one of the biggest lessons in real estate ever, I haven't learned books that like, I could have bought that building at the time was this ugly building and we didn't buy it. I was like, that's too much money. It's too risky. Yeah, but we made this beautiful, compelling space and we increase the value of that building, so.
00:33:58:13 - 00:33:59:07
Susan
Oh my gosh.
00:33:59:13 - 00:34:17:04
Jamey
Yeah, yeah yeah. And so I was like, you can create your own value. And then we're doing house and stuff like that and make them fun. Yeah. Vibrant. Like they're worth way more. Yes you can create and but I feel like y'all were coming in where everyone else is doing white and. Yeah, yeah, he's like, yeah, we're doing these fun things that where people wanted to gather.
00:34:17:06 - 00:34:31:00
Jamey
So. So the foundry I'm assuming, like, so you're like seven streets going in over here. This is happening. This is this kind of of an industrial land hidden behind target. Yeah, yeah. And but walk me through sort of like.
00:34:31:04 - 00:34:32:02
Jessica
The strategy behind.
00:34:32:02 - 00:34:34:20
Jamey
Yeah. Because that. Yep. Got you said 13 different.
00:34:35:01 - 00:34:35:08
Susan
Yeah.
00:34:35:11 - 00:34:53:16
Jessica
So we knew. So one I would just say from our backgrounds decision was describing we knew that Fort Worth was ready for a larger neighborhood play that included a lot of adaptive reuse. And the Near South Side had started doing that with Magnolia, but it was different. It was more quaint, historic. So we had seen a lot of different warehouse conversions in different places.
00:34:54:15 - 00:35:14:10
Jessica
So we were looking in general, not necessarily on this area for an area. And fort that had a bunch of old warehouses that we can convert. At the same time, we started looking at this area going, okay, there's three streets that go through the main. There's three major east west streets that go through where everybody has to go, which is where everyone lives in downtown.
00:35:14:12 - 00:35:35:11
Jessica
Can't be Arlington Heights, Rivercrest, Crestwood, etc. to downtown where they're working and so that was white settlement. Seven straight Lancaster, Lancaster, landlocked on the majority of the sides. Seventh Street is what it is. And yeah, some people were taking it or leaving it. It was becoming very commercial. And then you saw white settlement, which was This seems kind of kind of like it could be.
00:35:35:11 - 00:35:42:05
Jessica
Yeah. Interesting and thought provoking. It's close enough to the major incomes and all those type of things. So that's how we started buying over there.
00:35:42:07 - 00:35:46:18
Jamey
Did you did you put together like a master plan for that or. I would love.
00:35:46:18 - 00:35:47:05
Susan
To say we.
00:35:47:05 - 00:35:49:06
Jamey
Did budget for that. Are you just sort of kind of buying little.
00:35:49:06 - 00:35:59:21
Jessica
In the beginning? The first probably. So 200 Carol was it's 1031, you know. Yes. We went ahead and branded as the foundry. We started, you know, when.
00:35:59:21 - 00:36:02:00
Jamey
You had that concept for the name and all that.
00:36:02:02 - 00:36:03:08
Jessica
We cast the net from the beginning.
00:36:03:08 - 00:36:06:11
Susan
We bought one building and then called it the foundry, called the foundry.
00:36:06:12 - 00:36:23:21
Jessica
Okay. But then the large block across the street came up and after that came up and we purchased that, then it was time to go. Okay, this is this is a district we're going to build. And then we went with what's the master plan? What's the acquisition strategy? What's the capital plan? How do we exit this thing at some point.
00:36:23:21 - 00:36:24:20
Jessica
And that's when that started.
00:36:24:20 - 00:36:27:13
Susan
Honestly, the success of that project.
00:36:28:09 - 00:36:30:03
Jamey
Project, I mean, the first.
00:36:30:05 - 00:36:42:02
Susan
The foundry overall. Okay. Because the returns when we exited were they were fine. But they weren't like, oh my God. I mean, but and but the reason it was successful, was.
00:36:42:02 - 00:36:43:17
Jessica
Because we loved it. Yeah.
00:36:44:06 - 00:36:44:21
Susan
So we office.
00:36:44:21 - 00:36:46:11
Jamey
You put a lot of thought and we.
00:36:46:13 - 00:37:08:18
Susan
Office there for 6 or 7 years and different buildings. And so, if we didn't office there, and we're there every day, I don't think it would have been near a successful. That entire project is exactly an example of what just take people, take humans, take pets, take plants, whatever. If you if something's loved, how much more it can
00:37:08:20 - 00:37:14:02
Jessica
And we could grow more than that. But yeah. Budget constrained. Yeah, but which is fine. That boost creativity. Yeah.
00:37:14:06 - 00:37:21:13
Jamey
But I'm assuming as you're buying the first couple pieces and now people know they're buying up everything the price starts going up on. Oh yeah.
00:37:21:15 - 00:37:22:00
Susan
Yeah.
00:37:22:14 - 00:37:23:17
Jamey
You've already doubled down on it.
00:37:23:17 - 00:37:24:05
Susan
Yeah. Right.
00:37:24:05 - 00:37:24:13
Jamey
Yeah.
00:37:24:15 - 00:37:45:16
Jessica
Yeah. And that's, that's ultimately one of the, one of the reasons that, we ended up not continuing with it and selling it because pricing had gotten so crazy. To add on any other acquisitions you were going to have to densify and go vertical on a bunch of stuff, which is a whole other, whole other financial exercise than, you know, a horizontal warehouse district.
00:37:46:01 - 00:37:58:05
Jessica
Not that we couldn't do it, but it would have been different capital, partners, all the things that go into that. And so we ended up selling it. Yeah. Much longer. So we sold it in 2023, beginning of 20.
00:37:58:06 - 00:37:58:17
Susan
20.
00:37:58:19 - 00:38:05:04
Jessica
Two. Yeah. We sold it to a Santa who does a bunch of adaptive reuse stuff. They've been a great steward for the project.
00:38:07:03 - 00:38:39:21
Jamey
Okay. We haven't talked about the twin dynamic. Okay. And the relationship. Yeah. So you're obviously very similar. I was I was asking you about, like, I talk about this on the podcast, like cultured culture and. Yeah, yeah, they'll take this profile assessment thing. And both of you, your profiles are almost the exact same. So which is wild because that's like, maybe not wild, but but the way you operate both of you is like, it's almost exactly the same.
00:38:39:21 - 00:38:57:20
Jamey
And what's interesting is the first sort of attribute. And the neat thing about Culture Index is it shows you how intense or rare or current an attribute is versus like Myers-Briggs sort of tells you you're an AI and JP. Yeah, right. Shows you how intense it is. Yeah. And so your first attribute is autonomy. How self-motivated self start starting.
00:38:57:20 - 00:39:03:07
Jamey
And y'all are like less than 2% of the population is as extreme as and as intense as.
00:39:03:09 - 00:39:09:13
Susan
We're very intense. Which is why we do a lot of, like, self-care, like meditation and stuff to, like, just balance it.
00:39:09:13 - 00:39:18:02
Jamey
Live both of you. Like, in the future, going like you have an obstacle and you're just going to bulldoze through it. Yeah. Both of you were like a slightly introvert.
00:39:18:06 - 00:39:19:09
Susan
Yes, exactly.
00:39:19:09 - 00:39:22:19
Jamey
Susan, you're you're a little more social. And then.
00:39:22:21 - 00:39:23:17
Susan
Usually.
00:39:23:19 - 00:39:33:10
Jamey
Both of you are, like, not patient. You move really, really fast. You juggle a lot of things. You're go, go, go, you're intense. And then both of you, like, don't care about rules. And, you buck.
00:39:33:10 - 00:39:34:09
Jessica
You, particularly me.
00:39:34:09 - 00:39:41:20
Susan
Jessica is even more so than me. Jessica hates to be told what to do. I can do it. I guess it's the finance in me, Jessica.
00:39:41:21 - 00:39:50:03
Jessica
Just don't hate it. She hates I usually I've put a lot of thought into the decisions that I want to pursue.
00:39:50:05 - 00:39:52:16
Susan
And so she's more thoughtful than I am. I'm.
00:39:52:19 - 00:39:57:21
Jessica
Yeah. So Susan Susan will fold easier and I and I'm like, I've thought about this for about 15 hours.
00:39:58:03 - 00:39:59:08
Susan
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:39:59:17 - 00:40:05:09
Jessica
I'm pretty brash. I'm happy to tango here. We. But, like, we're not just going to, like, just go the other way. Yeah, yeah.
00:40:05:11 - 00:40:20:00
Jamey
But but it's why the both of you are super driven and so. Well, the only difference, the difference in A is, is this logic, one which is logic to how you perceive information. And so, Susan, yours is very personal.
00:40:20:00 - 00:40:20:20
Susan
I'm very emotional.
00:40:20:21 - 00:40:30:23
Jamey
Very emotional. Yeah. You're very sensitive. I would assume you are your heart. Honestly, if your feelings kind of get oriented, you're the opposite. You're like black and white. You're like Spock. Yeah. It's not emotion.
00:40:30:23 - 00:40:51:05
Jessica
Yeah. Susan, I would say one difference between us is just so interesting. Higher life. Susan has always cared more about what other people think. Yeah. And I've kind of been like, man. Yeah. You know. Yeah. And not not that I don't care what people think. I just it's if they don't agree, it doesn't has an effect on me.
00:40:51:05 - 00:40:59:00
Susan
Well, you know, a another way to say it is I'm motivated by fear. Jessica is motivated by more success.
00:40:59:11 - 00:40:59:20
Jessica
Yeah.
00:40:59:21 - 00:41:03:15
Susan
So I don't want to fail. She doesn't even failing is not a failure.
00:41:03:15 - 00:41:05:02
Jessica
Is not even in there. Yeah.
00:41:05:03 - 00:41:34:20
Jamey
It's not even an option. Yeah. So what I think is interesting is you both have very intense extreme personalities. Yeah. Probably like you like a lot of, like you're like your best friends. Yeah, in school and stuff. But at any given point, both of you have opinions. Yeah. And so I'm curious how you have managed to stay friends as a business partners to, like, stay as close as you are when you both have such intense and strong opinions and drives like the ability to clash.
00:41:34:22 - 00:41:37:09
Jamey
Because I'm assuming you clash. Yeah. Or are you just like we always agree.
00:41:37:14 - 00:41:54:12
Jessica
No, no, I would say that we're 38 now and that's that is for sure. I learned process into getting to where, you know, being so opinionated separately can be a superpower as one voice. Yeah. You can also.
00:41:54:12 - 00:41:59:18
Susan
Be if you're not 100% aligned, it can also we can scare the shit out of people. Yeah. Like, you know, we're in a meeting with the team.
00:41:59:21 - 00:42:00:15
Jamey
All start going at it.
00:42:00:16 - 00:42:02:23
Susan
Yeah, yeah. And then we try and we try not to do.
00:42:02:23 - 00:42:05:12
Jessica
Anything like we're too old for that. But yeah, you.
00:42:05:12 - 00:42:06:13
Susan
Guys, I can't help it.
00:42:06:14 - 00:42:07:03
Jessica
Yeah, just.
00:42:07:03 - 00:42:08:13
Jamey
You're good. So you care so.
00:42:08:13 - 00:42:10:17
Jessica
Much, right? Yeah. So much. But,
00:42:10:19 - 00:42:13:12
Jamey
And both of you aren't going to. You're not deferential. Yeah.
00:42:13:12 - 00:42:30:22
Jessica
Right now. No. Usually, like, you know, usually when we say something, it's because we really mean it. And then, you know, so someone tries to pull you off, you're like, I'm going to stick here first. Yeah, but I would say you know, that's been a learned thing for us in that we've gotten where we are today because of really good counsel by mentors.
00:42:30:22 - 00:42:51:10
Jessica
Not necessarily somebody has another identical twin, but someone's a business partner. We've, you know, really had to try. And even though it's really hard for us because business is personal and not Susan's life is, but we've really we have to be intentional about what we talk about personally, because we can get heated on something like on a Saturday night, and it's like everyone just wants to have a cocktail and hang out.
00:42:51:11 - 00:42:54:00
Jessica
Yeah. You know, so we have to, like, intentionally not talk about.
00:42:54:05 - 00:42:58:19
Susan
I'll say, like, I don't want to talk about business. Yeah, yeah. It's like, just one more thing. We need you to get it out. I'm like, no.
00:42:58:21 - 00:43:07:07
Jessica
I would also say we've gotten a lot better about realizing who is more passionate and opinionated about the topic and just letting that person when.
00:43:07:09 - 00:43:08:14
Jamey
Yeah, you care way more.
00:43:08:14 - 00:43:09:16
Susan
Yeah. Right. Yeah.
00:43:09:18 - 00:43:17:11
Jessica
I mean, we both are going to the same, I would say I've, I don't think we've ever had a, I ever had a time where the end game wasn't the exact same.
00:43:17:11 - 00:43:19:09
Susan
We always agree on get things, get where we're.
00:43:19:09 - 00:43:38:17
Jessica
Going places slightly differently. And that's where the I would say earlier in our careers it was more in not on purpose about your twins. It's more about, well, here's my opinion versus your opinion. And it's like, okay, let's remember that we are 5050 business partners. And in order for us to be successful, we've got to team up to make sure that this is the right end game.
00:43:38:18 - 00:43:44:18
Jessica
And it just takes intentional focus. We've had to do ground roles and I with all the things that you have to do. I mean.
00:43:44:18 - 00:43:47:00
Susan
You want to tell them about your your sign you made for me.
00:43:47:03 - 00:43:47:17
Jamey
You know, you'll.
00:43:47:19 - 00:43:58:06
Jessica
Be in dialog. Susan has a sign. What she did, she's gotten a lot better, but I had to give her a sign one day to put on her desk. It says be in dialog because she's so decisive and I'm so decisive. But in order.
00:43:58:06 - 00:44:01:09
Susan
She likes it. She likes to talk it out more than I do. Yeah. In order.
00:44:01:09 - 00:44:02:19
Jamey
To trailblazer, you just go, yeah.
00:44:02:19 - 00:44:06:23
Susan
Yeah, yeah. And we've talked about it once and then we talk about it again. I'm like, we've talked about this.
00:44:06:23 - 00:44:22:07
Jessica
And like for me, if I'm going to make a decision, I don't really need to talk to you about it. So when I'm dialoging it's like, hey, let's dialog and come up with the best decision together. There's something in my head that's not giving me 100% the right answer. And for Susan, she just wants to get the answer out and then move on.
00:44:22:09 - 00:44:24:16
Jessica
So she has a tendency to interrupt people.
00:44:24:18 - 00:44:26:12
Susan
That's true. And,
00:44:26:13 - 00:44:33:15
Jessica
And and then you get nothing out of the conversation that that person had saved up for. It's not just a twin thing. It's a human. Yeah. I mean, all human.
00:44:33:15 - 00:44:35:14
Susan
So anyway, so she I gave her a.
00:44:35:16 - 00:44:37:17
Jessica
Stanchion that says be in dialog.
00:44:37:20 - 00:44:38:16
Jamey
00:44:38:18 - 00:44:41:03
Jessica
And she was like, what's this say? Like, put it on your desk.
00:44:41:03 - 00:44:49:13
Susan
So then the entire team finally understood that I've been mentally abused by Jessica my whole life, that she made a sign for me to put on my.
00:44:49:15 - 00:45:05:10
Jessica
It's still a it's still in there. This was like, 2 or 3 years ago. It's not even that. Not even that old. But yeah, I just say it like the twin thing. It is our superpower. I mean, I am I'm 100% positive. Susan, I are an example of one plus one equals three at a minimum. And other times it's it's a lot more.
00:45:05:12 - 00:45:11:16
Jessica
If we are not teamed up, we can be more distracting and destructive. And it's exhausting. Yeah. It's exhausting. Yeah. So we've really had.
00:45:11:18 - 00:45:19:11
Susan
You know, business is already really, really hard. Yeah. You're going to like tango with your partner. You're like, man, I got to. I got to fight these people, not these people that.
00:45:19:11 - 00:45:24:06
Jessica
When we're teamed up like, there's no stopping us. Yeah. Like it's it's pretty nice.
00:45:24:06 - 00:45:31:08
Jamey
But I'm assuming that takes work and intentionality because it's probably like, like with within marriage.
00:45:31:12 - 00:45:32:21
Jessica
Oh, yeah.
00:45:32:23 - 00:45:34:08
Jamey
It just kind of affects everything.
00:45:34:08 - 00:45:35:19
Susan
Oh my god. Yeah. Yeah.
00:45:35:21 - 00:45:49:11
Jamey
To get. But it's also not easy because because I think the, the thing that's hard about family and the hard about siblings is you both know each other's like, weaknesses. Yeah, yeah, yeah mess and your mess splashes on her.
00:45:49:11 - 00:45:50:13
Susan
Yeah yeah, yeah.
00:45:50:15 - 00:46:08:07
Jamey
But the ability to forgive or overlook or treat with like gets really hard. Yeah. Because, like, we're all humans and humans are messy and. Yeah. And so I'm but I'm assuming you've had to cultivate. We're clashing. How do we bridge the gap and get back. Yeah.
00:46:08:07 - 00:46:28:17
Jessica
We sure. And personal work I mean I think yeah. So there's there's stuff that we do together, but then there's a lot of personal work that goes into controlling oneself. And so twins are like the at least for us. And this is why we're such idea people is because our entire life I have an idea. And then it's what about this idea?
00:46:28:17 - 00:46:36:15
Jessica
What about this idea? What about this idea? And we would iterate for 30 minutes on a topic and come up with like the most masterful idea. Which is amazing.
00:46:36:15 - 00:46:39:08
Jamey
And you and you, you realize that early on like.
00:46:39:11 - 00:46:40:10
Susan
Yeah.
00:46:40:12 - 00:46:50:19
Jessica
Yeah. But and if you're not doing that and you're just trying to get your point across, you never get to that level. You're basically stuck at like average person level. Yeah. Decision making, you know.
00:46:50:21 - 00:47:05:06
Susan
We just we for a while and it's gotten better as we've gotten older. But for a while and we did it with basically couples therapy. We did partner therapy. We did it was like you did. It was, yeah, maybe once a month. It could have been more than that where we would have to go.
00:47:05:06 - 00:47:10:01
Jamey
And because you did that out of like necessity to overcome. Yeah. Okay.
00:47:10:01 - 00:47:33:00
Susan
Well, we're we're big as you can as you know, about our mental health initiative. We're big. And I've always been big on, anything in that type of space. So like, you know, I when I did therapy, when I was like 21 years old or something. So like we and we and we told you about the psychologist that does all of our personality tests for the team.
00:47:33:00 - 00:47:45:21
Susan
It's the same guy he knows. He knows every single person on our team super well. And so when Jessica and I have, we had partner therapy, he knew every dynamic we were talking about because he did personality tests on all of them and including us.
00:47:45:21 - 00:48:05:21
Jessica
Yeah, yeah. It's just we're self-improvement people up to. I haven't used that word, but Susan and I, and this can be exhausting for people on our team or people in our lives. We always want to be the next best version of ourself, or do the next best version of something. Well, like we're that sounds almost like we're unhappy where we currently are, but that's not it.
00:48:05:21 - 00:48:09:20
Jessica
It's just we have that wanderlust with life in ourselves more.
00:48:09:22 - 00:48:10:06
Jamey
We want to be.
00:48:10:06 - 00:48:11:11
Jessica
Better, to be better, going to be better.
00:48:11:11 - 00:48:13:06
Jamey
And so there's a humility that comes with that.
00:48:13:07 - 00:48:13:19
Susan
Yeah for.
00:48:13:19 - 00:48:15:10
Jamey
Sure. Having arrived like yeah.
00:48:15:10 - 00:48:15:18
Susan
Yeah.
00:48:15:19 - 00:48:16:18
Jamey
A great mindset.
00:48:16:21 - 00:48:36:06
Jessica
And great too. You can tell I mean you know, I think gut intuition is like, you know, you can tell when something feels kind of off like, this isn't this isn't going at perfectly. And like if you're going to go into business with your family or even with your wife or whatever, it kind of has to be way better than it would be with someone that's not in your family.
00:48:36:06 - 00:48:42:07
Jessica
Because it's so important. You can't mess it up, you know? And so just high stakes poker.
00:48:42:12 - 00:49:02:13
Jamey
And to two questions, one like from that from from therapy and working on it and and doing it now for a long time. Are there any practices or or I'm curious about the rules or like things that you have done to make it beneficial. And my other question is outside of work, you're with each other all all the time.
00:49:02:13 - 00:49:07:19
Jamey
Yeah. Are you there still hang out and get together? Or is it like we need a little space? Like.
00:49:07:21 - 00:49:29:08
Jessica
Yeah, I'll, I'll go with the first one. The second one is interesting. The first one, you know, I would say is we have ground rules, you know, and those are things like, you know, we have we have. So when we do partners meetings, we have a partners agenda that gives us the ground rules for what we're going to talk about in those meetings outside of those topics shouldn't even come up in that meeting, because it means it's not to that level of discussion.
00:49:29:08 - 00:49:33:18
Jamey
Partners meeting is just too. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So you got so yeah. And it that weekly or monthly.
00:49:33:18 - 00:49:36:05
Susan
Or it's weekly. Weekly. If we're really.
00:49:36:05 - 00:49:40:02
Jessica
Like right now we just had our big annual planning session. So we're like very.
00:49:40:02 - 00:49:40:17
Susan
Aligned, super.
00:49:40:17 - 00:49:44:11
Jessica
Aligned. We probably won't have partners meetings again probably till like mid February.
00:49:44:11 - 00:49:45:00
Susan
Yeah.
00:49:45:10 - 00:49:55:06
Jessica
But it's it's like super nice space to talk about something that could be potentially conflictive or just, hey, let's team up. This is really important. Let's make it a priority for the team in the company, whatever.
00:49:55:07 - 00:50:02:18
Susan
Or like because we know we both we both run. So it's also our time to be like, hey, did you notice what so-and-so did? Yeah, I got it on my radar like that type of thing.
00:50:02:18 - 00:50:05:02
Jessica
Yeah, just like an FYI or like major. But you.
00:50:05:02 - 00:50:07:12
Jamey
Have one of the rules as you, we don't talk about.
00:50:07:14 - 00:50:09:13
Jessica
Random. Yeah. Or. Yeah. I mean.
00:50:09:13 - 00:50:18:05
Susan
Because you can imagine and business because we're family all of a sudden we even talk about a work thing. And then all of a sudden we're like, well, you know, you pissed me off yesterday or whatever. And you're.
00:50:18:05 - 00:50:20:00
Jessica
Like, it's like, no, this is our time to.
00:50:20:06 - 00:50:20:19
Susan
Talk about these.
00:50:20:19 - 00:50:32:13
Jessica
Topics. And we've got ground rules can interrupt the other person. Both people have to come prepared. They've got to submit items on the agenda. If you don't have an eye on the gender, you don't get to talk about it. This is not a bitch session unless you're prepared for the other person's.
00:50:32:13 - 00:50:39:17
Susan
The other thing because her family, for a while, we would it would just turn into like, let's just complain about how hard shit is, and that's not what I did. Yeah.
00:50:40:08 - 00:50:54:09
Jessica
So that, we both try and meditate twice a day. So trying to be, I mean, a lot of this, even though we are identical twins, we have to be better versions of ourselves to be the better version of ourselves as business partners. And, you know, and.
00:50:54:09 - 00:51:08:01
Susan
We charge each other. So it's actually we have to be that much more. We always have to rebel against what we naturally do together, which is like rise like a phoenix, like super hot and like we're like, okay, we need meditate. We need to some yoga, like, like.
00:51:08:02 - 00:51:15:21
Jessica
We can feel it if one of us has had a bad day or whatever, like sometimes we'll be like, we shouldn't because we just will just the Phoenix is the best.
00:51:16:01 - 00:51:16:20
Susan
Yeah.
00:51:16:22 - 00:51:20:04
Jessica
Yeah yeah yeah. And then it's then it.
00:51:20:06 - 00:51:21:05
Susan
Fiery monster.
00:51:21:05 - 00:51:26:06
Jessica
Office. We're basically like fire and gasoline. Like, you know, our way. And people are.
00:51:26:06 - 00:51:30:17
Susan
Like our CFO who's like our our grounded ones like.
00:51:30:19 - 00:51:46:09
Jessica
He's like, I'm gonna cancel my meeting with you guys later. Yeah. Yeah. So I would say we have to be very intentional. And then we put practices in place, you know, and then our kind of, our tiebreaker rule is whoever cares more makes a decision.
00:51:46:09 - 00:51:47:18
Jamey
Yeah. You sort of have an unspoken rule.
00:51:47:18 - 00:51:49:01
Susan
About, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:51:49:01 - 00:52:05:06
Jessica
And we you can tell we've been to Hot Buttons and we know our hot buttons now, like, I'm branding, marketing strategy, value add those like I'm super passionate about. And so Susan tries not to dig in that chili. She'll have an opinion.
00:52:05:08 - 00:52:06:15
Jamey
But she'll defer.
00:52:06:17 - 00:52:17:22
Jessica
She'll defer. Susan has her own versions of those things too. And I'll defer, you know, and we'll tell our team, hey, I'm happy to give you my counsel, but that's really a Susan. Susan's going to make it.
00:52:17:23 - 00:52:22:09
Jamey
So on your org chart roles and responsibility, you have a very clearly defined.
00:52:22:11 - 00:52:27:11
Jessica
Yes. We so we used to be very clearly defined. Well.
00:52:27:12 - 00:52:27:22
Susan
Yeah.
00:52:28:00 - 00:52:50:07
Jessica
Yeah. So used to be and this is our company was smaller that we have almost 40 people now. So it's different. So when we started our company and then it's gradually changed over time, we started our company. I was kind of a marketing branding leasing strategy. We shared development. Susan was over finance, shared development, accounting and strategy.
00:52:50:21 - 00:52:59:20
Jessica
The major buckets investments. Yeah. Investment. So there's those topics kind of lead what people would come to us on. But any major decision we made together, just one of us.
00:52:59:22 - 00:53:00:16
Jamey
Did we buy this thing?
00:53:00:16 - 00:53:00:23
Jessica
Yeah, yeah.
00:53:00:23 - 00:53:01:18
Jamey
So listening.
00:53:02:12 - 00:53:21:07
Jessica
As the company has grown, really, she and I basically have turned into. And this is, this is where we should be. And we're still working on this as leaders and getting these right set mentors and advisors for the overall organization on anything super complicated, because we tend to to work on some stuff that's not simple business development strategy.
00:53:21:21 - 00:53:25:07
Jessica
And that's really where we are spending the majority of our time.
00:53:25:11 - 00:53:27:04
Jamey
Doing it kind of more together.
00:53:27:05 - 00:53:28:01
Jessica
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:53:28:06 - 00:53:31:15
Jamey
And then you're doing finance. You're doing. Yeah.
00:53:31:17 - 00:53:44:12
Jessica
Yeah. Because we have people in those seats now. We're good. Yeah, they're good at it. And so our role is really to bring new investors in new ideas, think strategically, add staff, think about the company. Do we have the people in the right seat?
00:53:44:13 - 00:53:45:16
Susan
A lot of people stuff right now.
00:53:45:16 - 00:53:55:02
Jessica
Tons of people stuff. Yeah. Being the company cheerleader, you know, driving cadence when we need to, pulling off cadence when it's too much, you know, that type stuff. So which we.
00:53:55:02 - 00:53:55:14
Susan
Don't do a good.
00:53:55:14 - 00:54:09:15
Jessica
Job, we do terrible at that. But we're working on it. So that's really where it's gone now. But people are still generally know this is a hot button thing for Jessica. I'm going to if I'm going to go find someone, I'm going to go find her. Yeah. Hot button thing for Susan. I should get her opinion on this okay.
00:54:09:18 - 00:54:10:09
Jessica
Yeah.
00:54:10:11 - 00:54:12:09
Jamey
Interesting. And then outside. Deal.
00:54:12:09 - 00:54:23:12
Susan
Like we hang out all the time. You hang out all the time? Yeah. I have to remind myself to hang out with other people, okay? Because, you know, we have kids that are very close in age. We want to hang out.
00:54:24:04 - 00:54:26:08
Jessica
We live, like, about a minute apart.
00:54:26:09 - 00:54:26:13
Jamey
Oh.
00:54:26:13 - 00:54:28:00
Susan
He did? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:54:28:15 - 00:54:30:16
Jamey
And the kids, that kids dynamic is fine.
00:54:30:17 - 00:54:37:15
Susan
Oh, yeah. I mean, so my, my three year old Ben said mommy has three kids. I was like, what? No, I've got.
00:54:37:17 - 00:54:39:09
Jessica
I said, who, who? He said.
00:54:39:11 - 00:54:50:00
Susan
Me. Elliot. Vivi. Because Vivi is always at my house. And I was like, know that Vivi is and Jessica's and he's like, what? You know, because we're just always together. And he goes.
00:54:50:00 - 00:54:51:22
Jessica
So I have two mommies. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:54:51:23 - 00:54:55:06
Susan
We're like. And it's like, who's your second mommy? He's like, and Jessica and I was like.
00:54:55:08 - 00:54:59:01
Jamey
That's. That's funny. Yeah, I love it, I love it, sweet boy.
00:54:59:08 - 00:55:15:00
Jessica
We do though if it's like super intense, intense at work and I don't know if you do it intentionally, I know I do it. We try and give ourselves some space because it's super intense at work. It's impossible to not get on those topics. Yeah. So it's like you just got it. You got to say for both of us, we're just going to.
00:55:15:02 - 00:55:17:17
Jessica
I'll see you in a couple days. Yeah. You know, but also.
00:55:17:17 - 00:55:19:04
Jamey
You like again you like talking about time.
00:55:19:04 - 00:55:20:03
Susan
Yeah. Right. Yeah.
00:55:20:03 - 00:55:37:09
Jessica
Yeah it's both. And as we've gotten addiction. Yeah. As I've gotten older, you know, and the you know as you get older your self grows the versions of yourself. It's not just one person. It's. Yeah I want to have a family. I want to be a mom. I want to be a wife. You know? I want to be a sister and a business partner.
00:55:37:11 - 00:55:44:21
Jessica
You get better about prioritizing which version of yourself you want to be at a different period in time, you know, because you have more control.
00:55:44:21 - 00:55:50:02
Jamey
You're you're you're focused, examining and focusing on making a conscious. Yeah. Choice. Yeah.
00:55:50:03 - 00:56:07:12
Susan
Especially when you're able to make, like healthy choices that allow you to be more awake and aware to being, okay. I really want to be, you know, family time right now. And if you're not taking really good care of yourself, it's a lot harder to, like, identify that stuff, which is another reason why we're big into all the functional medicine stuff.
00:56:07:12 - 00:56:22:10
Jessica
And every year, you know, like we see each other every I mean, like when I first got married to my, my second has been Garrett. He's amazing him. But he was like, so this is what we do. So we just hang out with Susan, like, every night. I'm like.
00:56:22:12 - 00:56:24:03
Susan
Yeah, yeah, mean pretty much.
00:56:24:04 - 00:56:41:13
Jessica
We do pretty much what we do. He's like, I'm not quite sure this is going to work. Yeah. And then you have to start being like, okay, you know, now I'm a duo. Yeah, a different duo. Yeah. You know, and because you, we kind of forget because we've had kind of one life for a long period of time.
00:56:41:13 - 00:56:52:20
Jessica
Yeah. It's very, I would say somewhat new to us at least it's about half of our lives now that we really have intentionally separated as two people. Yeah. You know, versus being like, what are we going to do on this?
00:56:53:00 - 00:56:58:12
Susan
I went to a yoga retreat. It was like a week long yoga retreat, and I went by myself.
00:56:58:14 - 00:56:59:18
Jamey
And that's a long time.
00:56:59:19 - 00:57:01:08
Susan
I it was it was badass.
00:57:01:12 - 00:57:02:05
Jamey
That was probably you.
00:57:02:05 - 00:57:03:08
Susan
Oh, my God, I came back.
00:57:03:08 - 00:57:03:23
Jessica
I had been apart.
00:57:04:03 - 00:57:10:21
Susan
I came back so weird. Yeah. Like Jessica was like. Susan. Not everyday. Like you're thinking a little weird right now.
00:57:11:00 - 00:57:12:07
Jessica
Like, come back down to earth, man.
00:57:12:07 - 00:57:27:12
Susan
Yeah, we got some stuff to go. We got to, like, yoga three times a day, like, but, I found myself wanting to tell people like I'm a twin. Yeah, because I was just by myself, and I'm like, oh, I have to be my own part.
00:57:27:12 - 00:57:28:21
Jessica
Of your personal human.
00:57:28:23 - 00:57:33:20
Susan
It was so interesting to, like, observe myself feeling.
00:57:33:20 - 00:57:35:16
Jamey
The essential part of your identity.
00:57:35:16 - 00:57:48:17
Susan
Exactly like I. So I was like, oh, so who am I if I'm not going to talk about me being a twin? How how am I? How am I introducing myself, how am I? I was very interesting, and this was 7 or 8 years ago when that long ago, what's.
00:57:48:18 - 00:58:00:05
Jamey
What's crazy is like the only thing I can compare that to, if I'm looking at myself anecdotally is like, is is marriage? Yeah. Like I don't have any type of relationship that's that.
00:58:00:05 - 00:58:00:23
Susan
Yeah.
00:58:01:01 - 00:58:02:15
Jamey
Which is kind of cool to have that you have.
00:58:02:15 - 00:58:03:00
Susan
Yeah. Yeah.
00:58:03:00 - 00:58:03:20
Jessica
It's unique.
00:58:04:01 - 00:58:18:08
Susan
It's I this is morbid, but I, every once in a while I'll think about, this is so not mean to be negative, but like, when one of us passes away, like when we're old, like, am I just going to die? Like, a minute later?
00:58:18:08 - 00:58:19:09
Jamey
Like on The Notebook?
00:58:19:09 - 00:58:26:02
Susan
Yeah, like, I mean, I kind of hope I do like, it's just I don't. Yeah, it's.
00:58:26:06 - 00:58:35:07
Jamey
What a cool connection. Yeah, it's it's a blessing. I think there is a testimony to a testament to the work that you've put into that. Yeah. Because it's not, it's not easy.
00:58:35:11 - 00:58:37:17
Jessica
Yeah. It takes, it takes very intentional effort.
00:58:37:17 - 00:58:38:06
Susan
Yeah. Yeah.
00:58:38:11 - 00:58:47:03
Jamey
And I think, I think a lot of it is probably due to the humility you both have of like, we're going to work on ourselves. Yeah. We got to take care of ourselves because we can't be healthy for the organization. Yeah. If we're not.
00:58:47:06 - 00:58:57:20
Susan
Yeah. The hard part is when we because we do spin ourselves up. So there are times when we both go unhealthy. And then the whole organization feels it. Oh. Oh my God, one.
00:58:57:20 - 00:58:58:21
Jamey
Hundred percent, 100 poor.
00:58:58:21 - 00:58:59:14
Susan
People.
00:58:59:16 - 00:59:19:21
Jamey
I, I was speaking at speaking at this Startup Grind event. Yeah, a couple, a couple of days ago. And one of the things that the whole thing is like kind of sharing the journey and the ups and downs, blah, blah, but I got asked several times, like about mental health and about to handle stressful things. And it's like the the answer is you have to you have to find rhythms.
00:59:20:00 - 00:59:38:00
Jamey
Yeah, that allow you to take care of yourself, no doubt, because you can't handle the hard things if you're not. And I can stack the odds so much more in my face if I'm having solitude. Yeah, I'm studying. If I'm working out, if I'm like, eating right? Like, yeah, it's the only way you can handle it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:59:38:02 - 00:59:38:16
Jessica
And solitude.
00:59:38:16 - 00:59:39:03
Susan
The big one.
00:59:39:14 - 00:59:40:06
Jamey
Oh it's such a.
00:59:40:09 - 01:00:00:15
Susan
There was a but there was like a period of a year where I was more focused on, my physical mental health and Jessica was and and because she has a two year old, I have a three year old. So and we all know when you have really young babies, like, you turn into, like, well, I guess I'm just in the backseat, like, I don't eat.
01:00:00:17 - 01:00:07:23
Susan
Anyways, and, we were talking about it one day, and she was like, you know, I just realize I'm. I'm just never by myself.
01:00:08:03 - 01:00:12:18
Jessica
I don't remember a time I but she was like a year and a half old at that time.
01:00:12:19 - 01:00:13:21
Jamey
And that's a hard. So.
01:00:13:21 - 01:00:14:14
Susan
Yeah. You know.
01:00:14:15 - 01:00:15:05
Jamey
Your time is.
01:00:15:05 - 01:00:16:04
Susan
Oh, God. Yeah.
01:00:16:04 - 01:00:21:08
Jessica
So are you. I mean, just part of it, but I was like, I can't remember the last time I've done anything alone.
01:00:21:10 - 01:00:24:06
Susan
But it's so good for you. Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah.
01:00:24:07 - 01:00:25:20
Jamey
It's like it made me a morning person because.
01:00:25:20 - 01:00:26:02
Susan
Yeah.
01:00:26:08 - 01:00:29:01
Jessica
Oh, yeah. I get up at 530. Just,
01:00:29:03 - 01:00:32:08
Jamey
It's the only time I can be. Oh, yeah, I know, like, love it. Yeah.
01:00:32:12 - 01:00:33:10
Jessica
It's my favorite.
01:00:33:12 - 01:00:33:21
Susan
Yeah.
01:00:33:23 - 01:00:34:17
Jamey
At at nine.
01:00:34:17 - 01:00:35:17
Susan
Yeah. Exactly.
01:00:35:17 - 01:00:42:06
Jessica
Yeah. Good mornings ago, I accidentally slept through my alarm, so I didn't get up till six, and I was like, just kind of throw off my.
01:00:42:08 - 01:00:42:23
Jamey
It does.
01:00:42:23 - 01:00:44:22
Jessica
Freaking day, you know? And it you.
01:00:45:00 - 01:00:46:11
Susan
You feel it all day.
01:00:46:11 - 01:00:47:00
Jessica
Long.
01:00:47:04 - 01:00:52:09
Jamey
And I forgot to set my alarm last night. Yeah. And I woke up at six and I was like, I was really sad.
01:00:52:09 - 01:00:54:00
Susan
Yeah. I was like.
01:00:54:02 - 01:00:57:03
Jamey
I was like, dang it. This is like, my favorite, favorite time.
01:00:57:03 - 01:00:59:02
Susan
My whole day is messed up now. Yeah.
01:00:59:04 - 01:01:21:22
Jamey
It is. Well, cool. Thanks for thanks for sharing all that. I have a couple questions. I'm trying to decide where I want to go with it. Let's actually, I think this is a good. I was going to talk about business stuff, but let's let's talk into like, mental health. Great. We're on that topic. Yeah. And y'all, do you do you have a foundation, a fundraiser or is it just like, what is it?
01:01:22:01 - 01:01:23:01
Jamey
This is it.
01:01:23:03 - 01:01:24:16
Jessica
So we have A501230.
01:01:24:16 - 01:01:25:08
Jamey
So you have an.
01:01:25:08 - 01:01:26:21
Jessica
Actual have a nonprofit. Yeah. Yeah.
01:01:26:23 - 01:01:52:19
Susan
So when we started the initiative seven years ago, it was not A501 C3. It was just thoughts become things and we're like, okay, we need to start raising, for this because we, we, and we can get into personal story, but like, we, we, witnessed really shitty outcomes, and resources and realized, like, oh, this is all that we have, and we're like, in 2020 or whatever year it was, I can remember 2018.
01:01:52:19 - 01:01:55:17
Susan
We're like this. How is this even possible? This is what we're dealing with.
01:01:55:17 - 01:01:56:18
Jessica
15 to 27.
01:01:56:18 - 01:02:17:21
Susan
I mean, our understanding of the human brain, which has gotten so much better in the last couple of years as Covid accelerated. A lot of those conversations is back then, which again, was only 7 or 8 years ago, was frightening. I mean, I mean, it is awful. But anyways, so we, started of raising funds back then and there was no five oh NC three.
01:02:17:23 - 01:02:35:22
Susan
We basically were just we, we found UT southwestern and what they were doing, and in particular doctors named Doctor Trivedi, who's amazing. We were with him yesterday, and still are obsessed with him with that man's height where that man's height, man. But, and, started just funneling dollars there. So if I went and talked with you as.
01:02:35:22 - 01:02:42:17
Susan
Hey, Jamie, I need five grand. You're writing a check directly to you to a Western. You weren't writing it to us. And then, did that.
01:02:42:20 - 01:03:00:03
Jessica
Because we didn't want people to feel uncomfortable because we were, you know, obviously, we had a real estate company. We weren't a nonprofit, and we wanted people to get behind the cause, but we didn't want us to be a reason that they didn't want to get behind the cause. So we just said for a while, let's just start building trust with the community that this is what's.
01:03:00:05 - 01:03:19:02
Susan
And so now we have a 583. We have an executive director that oversees the initiative for us that MTG pays for, not the not the 503. Oh that's cool. Yeah. And, so, you know, Jessica and I, I don't know how much money we're going to spend by the end of our life on the initiative, but, I don't really care, you know?
01:03:19:19 - 01:03:41:13
Susan
But we'll probably, since it's going to be a legacy for us, we've raised, a million 616. We'll probably. I mean, over our lifetime, hopefully raise like 30 million bucks or something. I mean, like, it's we are, very, very focused, not about raising money so that the impact. Yeah, obviously. But, and so we're just super passionate about it,
01:03:41:15 - 01:03:43:23
Jamey
And using your platform at network and.
01:03:44:01 - 01:03:58:13
Susan
It's been interesting. So the first couple of years, you know, as much more grassroots, like me asking, you know, our friends or business, colleagues or whatever. And then now we have used our platform to increase donations by, like, look, if you're going to be our attorney.
01:03:58:15 - 01:03:59:18
Jamey
01:03:59:20 - 01:04:05:16
Susan
You're gonna I'm, I need you I'm going to need you to contribute. It's not that I'm like, hey look, it's understood.
01:04:05:20 - 01:04:09:13
Jessica
Really in business means that you care what happens to other people too.
01:04:09:14 - 01:04:09:23
Susan
Yeah.
01:04:10:00 - 01:04:33:02
Jessica
You know and we happen to have a way in which you can help also if. Yeah. If you so feel and, Art of the mine, which is our big fundraising event, has almost come to me when we have that event. Yes, it's a fundraising event and it's really focused on mental health and, the impact that we're making in that space through the fundraising dollars we're putting towards mental health research, and it's about art and all those things.
01:04:33:02 - 01:04:51:00
Jessica
But it's also like a celebration of so many people that have come together to say, we care. You know, like we care about this cause we needed someone to be a champion, to say they care so we can say we care, and now we all care. And so it's a pretty cool thing to see. 3 to 400 people in the same room.
01:04:51:00 - 01:04:55:01
Jessica
Just like elated, talking about mental health research. Yeah.
01:04:55:01 - 01:05:08:01
Susan
The first year we did an event, and we did the very first thing we did, we did this like really intense video, short film. Rainbow. Dinner. Rainbow. Yeah. So she, produced it.
01:05:08:03 - 01:05:09:23
Jessica
She was a director in the Red productions. Director.
01:05:09:23 - 01:05:33:17
Susan
Gender's pretty cool. But it was it. What it did is it took the viewer through, in a, in a experiential way. What it's like to have a mental disease. So there was I mean, it was way intense and weird. But anyways, my point being, we had, like, the mayor in the room and all these, you know, people that obviously don't talk about mental health.
01:05:33:17 - 01:05:53:19
Susan
This is the first year that we did it and we just forced everybody to have a conversation. And it was so interesting. And again, this is pre-COVID, forcing people that are like really successful businesspeople to say, you know, I actually struggle with anxiety or whatever it was. And it was so interesting back today. That doesn't seem that weird.
01:05:53:21 - 01:05:55:13
Susan
7 or 8 years ago, that.
01:05:55:16 - 01:05:56:13
Jamey
Was a bit more taboo.
01:05:56:14 - 01:06:10:01
Susan
Yeah, yeah, for sure. So it was really interesting. Yeah. And so, it just and I think people were willing to do it because, they identified with our personal story. So how the whole thing. Yeah.
01:06:10:01 - 01:06:10:15
Jamey
Do you want to share that?
01:06:10:16 - 01:06:18:01
Susan
Yeah. Okay. Which is really Jessica's story is it's more just a story. That's my story. But again, we're one person, so it's our story. Yeah.
01:06:18:01 - 01:06:18:22
Jamey
Identify as.
01:06:20:00 - 01:06:41:07
Susan
Jessica's first husband, was, I mean, just like he could have been hanging out here with all of us. Totally normal. And then one day, his eyes looked different, and, he suffered a severe mental break and then was, diagnosed with extreme bipolar disorder. This was, seven years ago.
01:06:41:08 - 01:06:42:06
Jessica
It's 2015.
01:06:42:07 - 01:06:59:06
Susan
And so he had all the support in the world nine years ago. Nine years ago. Yeah. That's great. Oh, yeah. That's right. Nine years ago, because it was one of Jessica's pregnant with their first child. And usually, for white males, it comes on later in their 30s and triggered by a major life event, but in their 20s and 20s.
01:06:59:08 - 01:07:22:17
Susan
And it's triggered by a major life event. And there's some other things happening. Anyways, so he had all the support in the world, and we went and talked to the best doctors in the world. Best researchers. Went to the best. I mean, clinics like checked him in places, did ect. Ketamine, anything you could do and we could he we could he could not get better.
01:07:23:16 - 01:07:45:03
Susan
And then ultimately he ended up, passing away, because he was hit by a car in the middle of a manic episode and died and, so we were exposed to literally. Okay, this is somebody has a very severe diagnosis. What are the resources, any any resources possible. And again.
01:07:45:03 - 01:07:48:07
Jessica
Told our entire lives, if you focus on something, you can.
01:07:48:07 - 01:07:49:12
Jamey
Yeah, you're used to we can solve it.
01:07:49:12 - 01:08:12:22
Susan
Yeah. Right. It. Yeah. And so we saw like this is the best the world has. This is the best we have. And so we decided that we couldn't let that happen. And again, we're entrepreneurs by nature. And so we were just like, okay, let's let's, turn our grief into motivation. And it's obviously, I mean, we're so passionate about it, and I and I'm not, bashful about it.
01:08:12:22 - 01:08:42:20
Susan
I don't feel bad asking people for money for it. Like, it's just it is such a needed cause, And I think there's been so much accelerations in the topics over the last couple of years, that I think, I can't wait to see the impact that not only we're going to make, but really where the space is going, like, you know, we where we're ultimately after, there's a number of things that we do on, on advocacy and awareness, which is really talking about it.
01:08:42:20 - 01:09:00:10
Susan
And the other is funding research. But, you know, we're really after, and the doctor that we support finding a biomarker of, that they can, you know, markers, take your blood and, and say, okay, you're predisposed to severe depression or bipolar disorder because the challenge is what happens to today.
01:09:00:10 - 01:09:01:14
Jamey
Have they found that now?
01:09:01:17 - 01:09:16:04
Susan
But they're they're they're making they're making a lot of strides. Because the challenges you suffer severe, severe depression once you you've hit that point, we're treating, you know, stage four cancer with Advil. Yeah. It's too late. So you want to try to.
01:09:16:04 - 01:09:20:20
Jessica
Avoid someone's treatment journey, like, hey, you have an indication you could be like.
01:09:20:20 - 01:09:23:11
Susan
High blood pressure. You need to take it into something.
01:09:23:11 - 01:09:41:06
Jessica
So you need to start. You you need to exercise five times a week. You've got to eat really healthy. You need to make sure you get eight hours of sleep a night. You need to have a tie to you know, we're talking about the book The Awakened Brain, but it's basically about your tie to a higher power or a spiritual journey being resistance to depression.
01:09:41:19 - 01:09:50:04
Jessica
You need to have, in some cases, it will be medication and therapy, but you have to. Those things could help so many people so they never.
01:09:50:06 - 01:09:51:05
Susan
Don't get to the extreme.
01:09:51:05 - 01:09:52:04
Jessica
Or level.
01:09:52:06 - 01:09:52:13
Jamey
Yeah.
01:09:52:16 - 01:10:11:04
Jessica
Yeah. So and the other thing is it would help it helps reduce the stigma for people. It's so different. And I use as example people see, you know, the homeless man under the bridge talking to himself. Everybody runs the other way. You if you see a little kid in Walmart talking to themselves by themselves, everyone's going to rush to that kid to help him.
01:10:11:06 - 01:10:30:06
Jessica
And it's it's because they assume that they're innocent, you know, but then but they're intimidated or scared of the person that it's gone to that level. And so if we can figure out how to get to it sooner that there is a potential predisposition, then, you know, I think we will save, save and help a lot of people in their families not live that type of.
01:10:30:06 - 01:10:46:07
Jamey
Life because that is such a crazy thing. Like in philosophy, you have what's called the mind, mind body. Yeah. Problem. Because you have this physical thing, it's crazy. The somehow affects and makes this nonphysical thing.
01:10:46:07 - 01:10:46:16
Susan
Yes.
01:10:46:19 - 01:10:53:23
Jamey
How do you bridge that gap? But we know physically there's so much involved with that. Yeah. And but then there's a spiritual component.
01:10:54:00 - 01:10:55:01
Jessica
It's very complicated.
01:10:55:01 - 01:10:57:08
Jamey
And then. Yeah it's just such a wild.
01:10:57:08 - 01:10:57:15
Susan
Yeah.
01:10:57:15 - 01:11:11:12
Jessica
So Doctor Trivedi that's, that's I would say one of the main things that, you know, help really guided us to him, is just he looks at the holistic person and studies it from all angles, like it's not going to be one solve for everyone. No.
01:11:11:13 - 01:11:12:13
Jamey
It's not one solved.
01:11:12:14 - 01:11:17:03
Jessica
Yeah, yeah. It's multiple different different types of things. But yeah it's interesting.
01:11:17:03 - 01:11:28:05
Jamey
How did how did you two handle all of that. But because you have a baby now. Yeah. I'm assuming y'all are doing some sort of crazy deal or. Yeah. Yeah. On their stress there.
01:11:28:05 - 01:11:30:10
Jessica
Yeah. Yeah. So we,
01:11:30:12 - 01:11:32:14
Jamey
Did you take a like did you take a break from like.
01:11:32:15 - 01:11:34:04
Jessica
Not really. I mean, well.
01:11:34:04 - 01:11:35:17
Susan
We took a break when he passed.
01:11:35:17 - 01:11:42:12
Jessica
Away. Yeah, we took about a month and a half off. It was during the like holiday season. And it was just like we were so. Okay.
01:11:42:13 - 01:11:53:20
Susan
So I was Elliot the. He died, and Elliot was born five days later, so I was pregnant. So I already was on I just was already taking the laboring or at work. And then she called me and said he passed a.
01:11:53:20 - 01:11:54:10
Jamey
Maternity.
01:11:54:13 - 01:12:14:03
Susan
Maternity leave. He passes away. So and we're at the time there probably was like 2 or 3 people outside of Jessica and I, and it was close to the holidays is October. And our biggest client was the stockyards. And, you know, we're she's talking and we're like, well, you know, maybe we can figure this out. And I said, we got to go.
01:12:14:03 - 01:12:25:16
Susan
Pencils down. I mean, and so we called, our friend at the stockyards, Cry Cavalier, and said, like, we're going to have to take a break. And he said, okay. And we just picked back up in the new year. So we did have to go pencils down.
01:12:25:18 - 01:12:43:10
Jessica
It was like 45 days. But yeah, but really, you know, pre that we, you know, work. I would say again it goes back to our upgrading, our upbringing business and work as like Susan eyes love language. So there's almost like an escape for me during this whole time period.
01:12:43:12 - 01:12:44:09
Susan
Yeah. Yeah.
01:12:44:11 - 01:12:51:13
Jessica
Like exactly. I definitely had to compartmentalize because it was, you know, this at home and then, you know, this here.
01:12:51:15 - 01:12:56:16
Susan
And this chaos at home. It wasn't like, yeah, this is it wasn't even like heavy. It was.
01:12:56:16 - 01:12:58:10
Jessica
Chaos. Yeah. Just chaos.
01:12:58:12 - 01:12:58:20
Jamey
That's right.
01:12:58:20 - 01:13:00:06
Susan
Even it's. Exactly.
01:13:00:07 - 01:13:24:14
Jessica
Yeah. It was very bad. But we ended up separating, you know, when Vivian was around six months old, and then, and then after that, you know, he went probably even more downhill because there was no one there to, you know, really hate to say, but hold him accountable. Yeah. Same for himself, even for himself. And so he went we got divorced and he went downhill pretty quickly and then stopped taking all his medicine and all that type stuff.
01:13:24:14 - 01:13:46:15
Jessica
But, that, that period of my life was very it's hazy now because it was it, it is it like I lived an entire lifetime in, like being married to this person for two years? And seeing him basically die alive and, and, and then live as a totally different human, completely separate from me. And then passing.
01:13:46:17 - 01:14:04:10
Susan
Away. And it really was literally one day his eyes were different and it's just overnight. And we're here like two weeks. Me and Jessica, my mom, were like, do you notice Clint's eyes look a little different? And he was started like acting a little weird, but it literally was like me and you having a conversation one day normal.
01:14:04:10 - 01:14:09:07
Susan
Next day you're gone. It's crazy. I mean.
01:14:09:09 - 01:14:09:22
Jamey
Wild.
01:14:10:04 - 01:14:10:14
Susan
Yes.
01:14:10:14 - 01:14:18:23
Jessica
Yeah. So wild. Yeah. It's scary. Yes. Yeah. It's very and for, for a while you're like but this is possible. Yeah. Like walking around with something.
01:14:18:23 - 01:14:20:12
Susan
Up here that can do it. Yeah.
01:14:20:14 - 01:14:44:19
Jessica
You know, I mean it's, it was a very, eye opening experience and, you know, one, you know, I'll obviously never forget, but it's a hazy, it's a hazy time, that trauma. Yeah. Black out trauma. But, you know, work was, you know, the easier part is to dig in there. And then, of course, I had this beautiful baby who is amazing.
01:14:45:03 - 01:15:15:08
Jessica
And our parents are. They're up here. They live in between me and Suzanne. Like, we have the best family. They're super supportive. I've amazing friends. I have Susan, around towards the end of that whole process, I'd started dating my current husband, Garrett, who is an amazing human, and just he stepped in fully as like, the we got this role, and he's continued to be a really great supporter of our mental health initiative and making sure Clint's memory is still, you know, the why is still there.
01:15:15:09 - 01:15:16:11
Jessica
Yeah, it's pretty amazing.
01:15:16:14 - 01:15:34:12
Jamey
Yeah. Well, I, I love that you have stepped into it because you could like, hide that. Yeah, push it down for sure. But y'all have stepped into and said we're going to have one bring awareness to talk about it. So we invite people in. Yeah. And the for like let's fight it. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think that shows a lot of resilience.
01:15:34:12 - 01:15:42:11
Jamey
Yeah. It's it's really cool. It's been it's been fun to see how. Thank you. And the passion for it now and just the difference you're making in it.
01:15:42:19 - 01:15:58:04
Susan
It's the best work you can. I mean, because we've had some tough times in business, especially in the last couple of years when, you know, rates started going up and we're like, where's all my money going? But you can imagine you've got a shitty day at work, and all of a sudden somebody sends me an a $10,000 check for mental health.
01:15:58:06 - 01:16:04:06
Susan
I'm like, yeah, I'm good. Yeah, yeah. Like that's the that's the real work, you know? Yeah.
01:16:04:08 - 01:16:16:06
Jessica
And we're doing we're doing lots of cool stuff right now on it. And we're going to do some cool stuff this year. So I'm excited. Yeah. And like our, our first goal is a million. Now we're at 1,000,006. Now we're about to go real big goal.
01:16:16:06 - 01:16:16:16
Susan
Yeah okay.
01:16:17:14 - 01:16:18:03
Jessica
And.
01:16:18:14 - 01:16:20:04
Susan
I don't know, like maybe ten. We're not sure yet.
01:16:20:05 - 01:16:21:20
Jessica
We're not sure exactly what it's going to be, but.
01:16:21:21 - 01:16:24:17
Susan
We're about to really we're going to alienate some people about.
01:16:24:17 - 01:16:27:02
Jessica
Vision. And yeah, really setting that up.
01:16:27:02 - 01:16:31:16
Jamey
For this is coming after 2025. Yeah yeah yeah.
01:16:31:18 - 01:16:32:08
Susan
Bagley.
01:16:32:15 - 01:16:48:10
Jamey
Well thanks for sharing all that. Yeah. Thanks for for opening up about that. I'd love to pivot now and talk about so I want there's two things I wanted to cover. Want I want to talk about just scaling. Yeah. But I also want to talk about, like, the financial component. Yeah. Just selfishly.
01:16:48:10 - 01:16:49:02
Susan
Yeah.
01:16:49:04 - 01:16:49:20
Jessica
Let's do scaling.
01:16:49:21 - 01:16:54:08
Jamey
Let's do scaling. Like, because you went from, like, we can have this company to us. And the guy that in turn.
01:16:54:10 - 01:16:55:07
Susan
Yeah. Now like, fell.
01:16:55:07 - 01:16:56:08
Jessica
Off the face of your.
01:16:56:10 - 01:17:03:16
Jamey
People. Yeah. And you also pivoted from like being so hands on and doing these like. Yeah. Colorful projects okay. Yeah. To now doing.
01:17:03:18 - 01:17:04:06
Jessica
Industrial.
01:17:04:06 - 01:17:05:10
Susan
Scale projects. Yeah.
01:17:05:11 - 01:17:08:19
Jamey
Big old. Yes. City bigger than city blocks. Millions of square feet.
01:17:08:19 - 01:17:22:10
Susan
There's a there's a lot there I'd say big picture. You know, back on our personalities, Jessica and I've always been, our we're not the smartest, but we are out workers. That's just how we've always been. And so for the first.
01:17:22:10 - 01:17:29:06
Jessica
Couple of years, from our dad. Yeah, I mean, told us early on that working. You may not be the smartest person in the room. You can for sure be the hardest worker. Yeah.
01:17:29:21 - 01:17:51:15
Susan
And, so pre kids, you're able to do that then? Awesome. We started having kids and, you know, I'm like, oh, I can't wake up at 4:00 in the morning and do like eight hours of analysis and time. Yeah, right. Shrunk your time is very shrunk. And so and then we were realizing, oh, hey, we're not able to hit the goals that, you know, we're always been goal people.
01:17:51:15 - 01:17:58:02
Susan
We weren't able to hit them because there's only two of us. So then in 2018, we.
01:17:58:02 - 01:18:00:04
Jessica
Probably ten people on the team. Yeah. This time. Yeah.
01:18:00:09 - 01:18:22:10
Susan
In 2018, Vivienne and Elliot were both here, and, we realized that, we needed smarter people to do, you know what they were really good at? Instead of us just being of all trade and everything, one because of sheer exhaustion. And then number two, we could tell we were not going to hit any of our goals.
01:18:22:16 - 01:18:44:21
Susan
So we started hiring meaningfully starting in 2018. For the longest time, we would hire, we would go get business, and then we'd hire people after we got the business so we could always cover the overhead of the humans based upon the fee revenue we were bringing in. And so that that led to us not scaling as fast.
01:18:46:01 - 01:18:49:04
Susan
And then, in 20.
01:18:49:04 - 01:18:54:18
Jamey
And when you say that meaning you're now having properties you're holding that are using.
01:18:54:19 - 01:18:55:15
Susan
And so that we could not.
01:18:55:15 - 01:18:57:11
Jamey
At the mercy if I got to. Yeah.
01:18:57:12 - 01:18:58:23
Susan
Exactly. So then we get on.
01:18:58:23 - 01:18:59:11
Jamey
That payroll.
01:18:59:11 - 01:19:11:09
Susan
That exactly. Yeah. We could afford it. And then in 2021 we, we got more brave, and realized, we wanted to be excellent. And in order to be excellent. So we.
01:19:11:09 - 01:19:12:12
Jessica
Wanted our platform.
01:19:12:12 - 01:19:13:18
Susan
To be excellent. Yeah.
01:19:13:20 - 01:19:14:12
Jamey
What does that mean?
01:19:14:18 - 01:19:33:22
Jessica
So our company, like the platform that we're building is it's bigger than Susan and I, it's, you know, and in our mind, you know, if there's like a vision up there to tame and ninjas that come out at the same time, that platform needs to be sharp, tight and able to get you to the next level. And it's expensive and it's.
01:19:34:00 - 01:19:35:03
Susan
Super expensive.
01:19:35:07 - 01:19:38:23
Jessica
But it's it's important. Like, we we strive for excellence in everything that we do.
01:19:38:23 - 01:20:05:21
Susan
Yeah. So our biggest our biggest challenge is not burning people out candidly, but so anyways so then decided then we are going to start investing. And so, started scaling the business. Switched we still what were the best in the world at quote unquote? I still think it's mixed use. But mixed use, the way we do it and the scale of the product that we do, it's not that's not really a scalable business.
01:20:05:21 - 01:20:08:21
Susan
That's like, okay, this is my passion. This is what I'm really good at.
01:20:08:23 - 01:20:15:10
Jessica
Has to be for the project to be successful. That's what it needs. It's got to have a caretaker basically.
01:20:15:10 - 01:20:28:17
Susan
Right. So we said, okay, we're going to do mixed use opportunistically. And we're not going to do a bunch of so we have three projects right now on the mixed use side that are of, you know, we call them once in a lifetime projects. And we don't we're not asking for more projects running at full scale.
01:20:28:17 - 01:20:30:01
Susan
Yeah. And then, you know.
01:20:30:01 - 01:20:33:10
Jamey
These properties you're buying or these properties you're doing for somebody else. Both. Okay.
01:20:33:12 - 01:20:35:22
Jessica
Both depends on how the opportunity comes up.
01:20:35:22 - 01:20:38:16
Jamey
Stockyards would be one you're doing for somebody else. Exactly.
01:20:38:18 - 01:20:49:13
Jessica
Yeah. We have another one that'll get announced soon. So I can't I can't say it, but we're doing it for someone else. And then we have another one that we've been selected. It'll be, you know, we'll brand capital just like we do. Anything else?
01:20:49:16 - 01:21:08:06
Susan
Yeah. Yeah. But then, so then we said, okay, what's going to be our, like, rinse and repeat, which we can't help ourselves. Nothing is rinse and repeat. But if we had one, it'd be industrial. And we in 2018, the same time we decided we were going to start investing in people said, you know, we're entrepreneurs, we're going to do real estate.
01:21:08:06 - 01:21:22:23
Susan
The rest of our lives. What other asset classes do we want to make sure that we're invested in? And so we were like, oh, we don't want to, we want to. Industrial is going to be it's the wave of the future going into The Jetsons or whatever. So we added industrial back then and then. So that's how we started really scaling the business.
01:21:23:16 - 01:21:26:05
Jamey
And now industrial is the bulk.
01:21:26:06 - 01:21:30:12
Jessica
It's it's not the bulk of the dollars. It's the bulk of the square footage.
01:21:30:16 - 01:21:34:16
Susan
Yeah. It's probably 70% of our business. Yeah. Okay.
01:21:35:06 - 01:21:36:20
Jamey
But you had never done industrial before that?
01:21:36:20 - 01:21:38:04
Susan
No. Outside of.
01:21:38:04 - 01:21:39:13
Jamey
How did you learn? How did you know how.
01:21:39:18 - 01:21:40:21
Susan
We did it? I mean.
01:21:40:23 - 01:21:46:00
Jessica
So we've always dabbled in it, you know? Why buy a warehouse? Sell it. And it was it.
01:21:46:00 - 01:21:46:15
Susan
Don't forget, we.
01:21:46:15 - 01:21:47:20
Jessica
Institutions, literally.
01:21:47:20 - 01:21:50:18
Susan
Every asset class we invested in as children.
01:21:50:18 - 01:21:52:06
Jessica
So like parents did it.
01:21:52:07 - 01:21:57:00
Susan
We did self storage to land, subdivisions to retail, to office.
01:21:57:03 - 01:22:15:00
Jessica
And pre pre have a m2 g and even the early stages of m2 g I did I was, Tesla's representative for Texas for their what they called their showroom dealership model. And so we started looking at a lot of industrial.
01:22:15:00 - 01:22:15:20
Susan
Property from.
01:22:15:20 - 01:22:38:12
Jessica
That, because that's primarily where those spaces were. And so that we just serendipitous that we were it's always happening at one time. But once we, you know, we did a white paper on industrial and then we said, all right, let's go. And then we go do it, you know? So, we started meaningfully investing in that in 2018 as like a dedicated strategy versus different than a one off, you know?
01:22:38:12 - 01:22:39:02
Susan
Yeah.
01:22:39:04 - 01:22:41:02
Jessica
Like we're going to deploy a lot of capital in this.
01:22:41:11 - 01:23:08:08
Susan
And, and I am Jessica thing has more energy than I do for whatever reasons. And, I, I was really motivated, to get into that space because of the, the tailwinds behind it. You know, she's she's not afraid of, like, things being hard and, like, fighting through it. I'm not knowing. I'm not either.
01:23:08:08 - 01:23:20:16
Susan
However, there is something in my head that pushed this pushing me like, we've got to we've got to get to something that is, there's capital demand behind it, and that we can not kill ourselves.
01:23:21:06 - 01:23:40:09
Jessica
And two, I would say, you know, we both identified with we need something that also works for us when you're not there. Because we wanted to have meaningful relationships in our family and children in our own personal lives. And so, you know that that's there's only a couple things that can do that, you know, industrials, one of them.
01:23:40:09 - 01:23:41:01
Jessica
Yeah.
01:23:41:03 - 01:24:12:05
Susan
So that's really why we scaled the business. It is I'd say we've been through, really, really, really, really, really hard. Several times. I feel like knock on wood, I feel like at least so far for 2025, this it feels a little, easier. Because for a while we were like.
01:24:12:05 - 01:24:12:14
Jessica
Chewing.
01:24:12:14 - 01:24:34:19
Susan
Glass. Yeah. Exactly. We were. Yeah. Which is, that's what Elon Musk says. He said that's it. Starting a business is like telling your server to to glass. Yeah. You know for a while we were, it was just us. And then we were like too small. It was so hard. And then we were like, too small to be big, and then, then we're too big, too big, too small.
01:24:34:19 - 01:24:41:10
Susan
And now we're like, okay, I think we've it's just it just feels a little bit easier.
01:24:41:10 - 01:24:43:07
Jamey
It's the teams in place. It's.
01:24:43:07 - 01:24:44:20
Susan
Yeah, I mean we've got markets.
01:24:44:20 - 01:24:45:12
Jamey
Doing the right thing.
01:24:45:12 - 01:24:46:06
Susan
Yeah, yeah.
01:24:46:10 - 01:24:47:01
Jessica
Trying to.
01:24:48:13 - 01:25:10:11
Susan
Hopefully. So it feels, it feels better. I can see, I can see today. I can see the reason why we scaled, there is 80 checkpoints along the way that you're like, should I go backwards? I mean, as we all know. Yeah. And, and those times are really hard, for sure.
01:25:10:13 - 01:25:34:13
Jessica
But I would say, scaling was less to me about how to service the business we were going after. It was more about the vision that we have for ourselves and the company, and the goals require scale to get there. And so we scaled, and I think there's, there's probably still more of that that will need to be done in order to accomplish those.
01:25:34:15 - 01:25:44:03
Jamey
Yeah. The challenges now you went from were running and gunning and making decisions, and we can move quickly and know how to do it. Exactly. I'm a people manager.
01:25:44:03 - 01:25:50:05
Susan
And the boat doesn't go like this anymore. The boat goes like this. That's which is that would be.
01:25:50:05 - 01:25:51:18
Jessica
It's more like.
01:25:51:20 - 01:26:12:17
Susan
Okay. Yeah. Which kills me. Yeah. For the record, I get a lot of feedback from the team, you know, and I, you know, constantly need to improve, but I'm, I'm, my, the pace at which I set things, is anxiety producing for the rest of the team, for sure.
01:26:12:18 - 01:26:44:20
Jessica
I would just say, you know, I think we've moved there. There are things that brought us to where we were, which at that time we said we're successful enough that we should scale. Those type of behaviors will not get us from that point to the next version. Yeah. Things like really strong leadership, well, strategic mindset, trying to stay out of the weeds, mentoring, finding the right people on the way and partners, those are going to be the things that are going to get us to accomplish the vision that we have set out for the company.
01:26:46:06 - 01:27:02:16
Jessica
And those behaviors that Susan and I had, you know, call it for the first 4 to 5 years of our company. Yes, they got us there. And there's nuggets of those things that we need to impart on the team. But doing it that way does it because it was the way we did it. Does it mean that that's how they should do what they're doing?
01:27:02:16 - 01:27:23:17
Jessica
Like, yeah. Otherwise then, you know, we might as well be doing it for ourselves. Yeah. So in then that change in mindset, especially for a hard charging entrepreneur with those scores, you looked at it that is you know, that's what I manifest every morning is to show up as a great leader that's patient, kind and listens to the things that people are saying takes us into account, and we all make the best decision.
01:27:23:18 - 01:27:25:16
Jessica
Yeah, I manifest that every morning.
01:27:25:19 - 01:27:26:18
Jamey
I love that it's a choice.
01:27:26:18 - 01:27:29:03
Jessica
It's a choice. It is for me because.
01:27:29:05 - 01:27:30:00
Jamey
It's not the default.
01:27:30:01 - 01:27:31:10
Susan
Yeah. No, it's definitely not.
01:27:31:15 - 01:27:32:14
Jamey
You got to choose it. Yeah.
01:27:32:14 - 01:27:49:10
Jessica
To choose it. Because my default is I'm going to go in here and just bulldoze. Well I'm getting my gas can and my lighter and we're just going to go to blaze and you know. Yeah. So but I mean I hope, you know, in five years I'll look up and go, I said that over and over and over again.
01:27:49:10 - 01:27:54:11
Jessica
And now it's closer to my default. Yeah. You know. Yeah, yeah. So you do.
01:27:55:01 - 01:28:02:16
Jamey
Well, we, we just have a few more minutes. So I was going to talk about finance, so I think I'm up. Yeah I'm going to pivot. We went we went deep. We covered some.
01:28:02:16 - 01:28:03:17
Susan
Yeah. Got to get some.
01:28:03:17 - 01:28:05:03
Jessica
Financing to any other time.
01:28:05:03 - 01:28:17:22
Jamey
Okay. Yeah I may pick yours for sure that I would love to any in terms of scaling and, and one of it is like your own mindset and that's power.
01:28:17:22 - 01:28:18:18
Jessica
90% of it.
01:28:18:21 - 01:28:22:21
Jamey
Is like any other like tips or tricks or things you've learned or lessons or principles.
01:28:22:21 - 01:28:31:15
Jessica
I would say Susan touched on it, but just say it bluntly. If you have big goals and dreams.
01:28:31:17 - 01:28:57:13
Jessica
That I'm going to I'm going to call out that they're out there. It's a it's a big number. It's a big amount of something. It is. And it's very clear in your mind that's your definition of success. For us, our definition of success was we went and basically said if our portfolio looked like this and we had done these things, what is what's that dollar amounts we did in the reverse because we think of, you know, our our mission statement is to inspire evolution through impact and innovation.
01:28:57:18 - 01:29:24:00
Jessica
So when we think about impact, we think about the places that we have along the way. And then you assign a dollar amount to those things based off the vision that's there. And then that's so I would say getting to your vision, if you can assign a picture to it, then go into the the numbers behind it, it's going to feel a lot more real and a lot more like you can own it.
01:29:24:02 - 01:29:43:22
Jessica
Let's say that the second one I would say is hire people smart if if you want, if you can, if you can do what I just described, then you want to hire the smartest people first and get them on your team. Don't try and do the reverse if you can. I mean, we obviously we're doing it because financial strengths also we could have done SBA loan or something like that.
01:29:43:22 - 01:29:53:09
Jessica
We didn't even that wasn't even on our radar in terms of a top. Yeah, right. If you can get really clear on where you were going, then you should put the right people in the right spot sooner. Yeah. Because you're going to get there.
01:29:53:09 - 01:30:02:04
Susan
Don't start with the low level. And then and this is what we did. Yeah. And and then we were like oh my God. You say Bill I'll need direction. I need people that can give them a direction, you know. Yeah.
01:30:02:16 - 01:30:22:10
Jessica
So I would say those two things, and then I this is a one that sounds completely opposite to my personality. But when you're scaling, be slow to make major changes. So once you start down a path, you're going to get a lot of shiny pennies on the way because you're scaling.
01:30:22:12 - 01:30:23:06
Jamey
Yeah.
01:30:23:08 - 01:30:42:08
Jessica
And you know what I'm talking about. I think, you know, you're going to get calls from so-and-so. Sounds kind of exciting over here. Yeah. And tell us from so-and-so, this is kind of exciting. We could go this way, we could go this way. And it's fine to make a pivot, but be very intentional if you make that pivot, because once you've you're scaling, then your scale goes very quickly in that direction too.
01:30:42:20 - 01:30:49:01
Jessica
So it's easier to your, your misstep will take you down a different path. Yeah.
01:30:49:03 - 01:30:50:16
Jamey
I that there's a lot of wisdom in that.
01:30:50:16 - 01:31:02:04
Jessica
Yeah for sure because normally mine is like ooh shiny penny. Let's go do that. Sounds fun. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, oh, that sounds like something we thought about for like six months and then decided not to do that. So let's remember we talked about that for like six months.
01:31:02:04 - 01:31:03:09
Susan
Yeah I know it's coming.
01:31:03:09 - 01:31:09:10
Jessica
Back up again you know. Yeah. So I would say those three things are something that sticks with me anyway.
01:31:09:10 - 01:31:28:05
Susan
Yeah I think those are good. Mine was going to be the only other thing I was going to say, which sounds counterintuitive to what you were saying on your last bullet, but mine is, I think people, when you're scaling, you're like, oh, should I do this or should I, and my just do it?
01:31:28:05 - 01:31:32:04
Jessica
Yeah. Don't be afraid. I think back to like, what you like.
01:31:32:06 - 01:31:38:03
Susan
What's the worst thing that happens? You pivot like, yeah, but go like, if you if you're.
01:31:38:05 - 01:31:40:09
Jessica
Once you make that decision, go, go. Yeah.
01:31:40:09 - 01:31:42:10
Susan
Indecision is a decision.
01:31:42:10 - 01:31:43:05
Jamey
Indecision is.
01:31:43:06 - 01:31:44:12
Susan
Yeah yeah yeah.
01:31:44:14 - 01:32:07:01
Jessica
And if you're there I mean I would say being an entrepreneur, it's not the same as like, you know, being a professional scuba diver, scuba diver or skydiver. But I mean, that's kind of the risk. Yeah. I tell the team that you sign up for if you're, if you if you're going to go to those great lengths, that's the I mean, you're kind of swimming with the great sharks, right, right.
01:32:07:04 - 01:32:12:23
Jessica
Sharks. And you're jumping out kind of with, you know, one parachute, but maybe your safety parachutes. Yeah.
01:32:13:01 - 01:32:30:20
Susan
Like every time I go to the dentist, I'm like, I should have been a dental hygienist. They their hours are right. They make pretty good money. They're not stressed out. They know every day what they're doing. I mean, who knew? Entrepreneur is basically like brain surgeon, but way harder. Like, it's so hard to know.
01:32:30:20 - 01:32:33:00
Jessica
Roadmap. Yeah. No fooling. Yeah.
01:32:33:02 - 01:32:41:21
Jamey
Were there any books, resources, podcasts like lessons that were really instrumental along the way?
01:32:42:00 - 01:33:03:00
Jessica
I would love to say that there were pre, I would say what helped us from year one to year six was and and there's no other way to put it. Grinding it out. Grind it out. Having crucial conversations. We got to tips. We're we're huge goal planner. So we do we've perfected kind of a goal session that we do every year.
01:33:03:00 - 01:33:18:21
Jessica
We've perfected over ten years. But I would say recently two books come to mind has really nothing to do with business. But I think for an entrepreneur, I think they're helpful. One is called The Power of Now. Have you read that? Oh, man, you got to read it.
01:33:18:22 - 01:33:19:13
Jamey
Really?
01:33:19:15 - 01:33:24:18
Jessica
Yeah. Like, don't don't buy it. So we'll send it to you as a gift from this. I'm gonna send you a what's the.
01:33:24:18 - 01:33:25:17
Susan
What's the one that I love?
01:33:25:17 - 01:33:30:12
Jessica
And the second one is the awakened brain. And that's another really good one.
01:33:30:12 - 01:33:32:00
Susan
What's the one that I you like?
01:33:32:10 - 01:33:33:17
Jessica
Journey.
01:33:33:19 - 01:33:38:16
Susan
Journey to the heart. No. No, I think so.
01:33:38:18 - 01:33:39:20
Jessica
Yeah.
01:33:39:22 - 01:33:41:01
Susan
Oh, God, it's so good.
01:33:41:01 - 01:33:43:15
Jessica
Another good one. But.
01:33:43:17 - 01:34:04:18
Susan
But those are more touchy feely books, but. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My my two tips are not tips. They are people. Oh, good. And I would say, and again, they're not, they're more touchy feely, but I think, the way you can scale your business or succeed in whatever you're doing is by being a better human.
01:34:05:15 - 01:34:23:02
Susan
And so one is Doctor Julie Kennedy, who's Jessica. Mine's, functional medicine doctor. She is amazing. She changed my life completely. Literally. And then she here in Fort Worth? Yes. Okay. She's amazing. And then second is a lady named Faith Guyger. Did you. Faith.
01:34:23:04 - 01:34:23:09
Jamey
Faith?
01:34:23:10 - 01:34:42:11
Susan
Yeah. Faith, I was pregnant with Elliot, and I was on maternity leave, and I came back from maternity leave, and they hanging out with Jessica. And just because, like, I don't know what this lady is going to do, but I know we want to hang out with her and, hire her. And so, Faith, has been Jessica and mine's,
01:34:42:13 - 01:34:43:06
Jessica
Is a great sounding.
01:34:43:06 - 01:35:05:22
Susan
Board sounding board, you know, somewhat of a life coach, very good friend for seven years. And, guided us through a lot of change and is a constant reminder about how important it is to continue working on yourself. Yeah. And to those two people and both of those people, you too can have, I love that.
01:35:05:23 - 01:35:07:01
Susan
They're awesome. Yeah.
01:35:07:01 - 01:35:27:13
Jessica
Yeah, I would say and if you can't have them for some reason then there. But what, what the one thing I do want people to have met is have advisors, have mentors, have people in your life paid or not paid, that you're constantly that know to check in on you and you can run ideas by. Yeah, yeah. And I think that's that's very important.
01:35:27:13 - 01:35:27:17
Jessica
Yeah.
01:35:27:17 - 01:35:44:04
Jamey
It's I think it's like even, I went through a season about a year or so ago, like just reading the Proverbs a lot. Yeah. And so much I was, I was really blown away and kind of like convicted because so much of Proverbs is the wise man seeks counsel, wise house counsel, the wise man once counsel the way like.
01:35:44:06 - 01:35:59:03
Jamey
And I you know, super power is I think I can do it on my own. Yeah. Right. And but it's also your Achilles heel. Yes. And I have learned the value as I've gotten older of like have people. Yeah. That call you out and challenge you and.
01:35:59:06 - 01:36:06:07
Susan
And it's also more dangerous. You can go by yourself somewhere whatever it is and a goal, whatever you you eliminate some life jackets.
01:36:06:07 - 01:36:07:23
Jamey
Yeah. Isolationism. Yeah.
01:36:07:23 - 01:36:09:08
Susan
It's not good isn't it.
01:36:09:14 - 01:36:18:04
Jamey
So yeah. And what's interesting, I think so much of the conversation we've had today has consistently gone back to your personal self.
01:36:18:04 - 01:36:18:11
Susan
Yeah.
01:36:18:14 - 01:36:19:22
Jamey
Self health.
01:36:20:00 - 01:36:20:14
Susan
Yeah.
01:36:20:16 - 01:36:35:14
Jamey
Be it mentally physically emotionally yeah. You know etc.. So very fascinating. Love love love love it. Last question. If you could go back and and give yourself advice, your younger self advice, what would it be.
01:36:35:16 - 01:36:37:12
Susan
Oh man.
01:36:39:05 - 01:36:56:03
Jessica
And this one's come up for me a lot because I'm thinking about my ten year self. I'm doing this guided meditation. That's a visualization of ten years from now. Yeah. And you ask your ten year self in this visualization what you should know. And I think it's relevant to what my ten year, ten, ten year old self before would have said.
01:36:56:05 - 01:36:59:03
Jessica
But be patient and focus.
01:36:59:21 - 01:37:01:05
Jamey
What do you what do you mean by that?
01:37:01:06 - 01:37:26:12
Jessica
So be patient. I mean, Susan and I, you know, we were wearing suits when we were 21 years old, ready to go work like 60 hours a week and like, you know, like, just just drive straight to success. It's okay that life is a marathon. It is not a sprint. And you don't realize that, especially when you have our personality type, you feel like you have to sprint everywhere and there's times for that.
01:37:26:13 - 01:37:32:13
Jessica
But if you can just be patient, as long as you keep your eye on the end game, you don't have to run everywhere, you know? And that's.
01:37:32:15 - 01:37:34:00
Jamey
Great. That's a great I mean.
01:37:34:02 - 01:37:38:11
Jessica
You'll say that's literally I would say my 20s. That's what I feel like running it.
01:37:38:11 - 01:37:38:14
Susan
Yeah.
01:37:38:14 - 01:38:02:06
Jessica
Running in place. Yeah. And then focus. Like, you know, I truly believe everyone has all the, all the tools they have up here. If you can just minimize the noise. And that could be multiple things. That could be you have surround yourself with people that are not maybe good for you. That could be you need to put yourself in a place on, you know, higher education to get you to the next level.
01:38:02:06 - 01:38:28:03
Jessica
That could be, you really need to study X, y, Z market in order to get where you're going. That could be anything. Yeah, could be personal health, whatever. But just focus. You know, try, try not to have which that's also brilliant. A brilliant thing for entrepreneurs is the shiny penny because that's how you find opportunities. But the more that you can edit and focus, the more you're going to feel grounded in what is somebody who always is running in place to the next kind of version?
01:38:28:07 - 01:38:28:19
Jamey
Great stuff.
01:38:28:23 - 01:38:43:14
Susan
Mine. So up until, I don't know, five years ago, you, I was that person that any of my mentors or advisors would, you know, tell me what they worried about about me is that, I didn't enjoy.
01:38:44:08 - 01:38:45:08
Jamey
Onto the next, on.
01:38:45:08 - 01:39:01:17
Susan
To the next. And they were like Susan, you know, you'll, you'll, you'll kill yourself that way. And I remember in my head when they would say that to me like you, that I wasn't having fun or whatever, but like, I didn't even it wasn't even my capacity to understand what they were saying. I'm like, I don't.
01:39:01:19 - 01:39:03:05
Jamey
It was a foreign category.
01:39:03:06 - 01:39:37:20
Susan
I'm like, what do you mean? And so for me, and how I got to that was by starting to take care of myself and prioritize myself because I lived like, probably, I don't know, ten, 12 years working my ass off of basically asleep. And, you know, if I could go back and do anything different, it would be how can I get to a place where I can be awake and aware in the beginning, and I can't imagine the different decisions I would have made along the way to know how much more I would have done if I just would have been awake in a way, or a long time ago.
01:39:38:03 - 01:40:02:07
Susan
So mine is, I think it would be around like, you've got to take care of yours. Take care of yourself early. Because I definitely had, I was, I had the threat to me was very real around never being satisfied. And I remember thinking, like, I don't even know how to get there, like, what are y'all talking about?
01:40:02:07 - 01:40:03:02
Susan
So that be mine.
01:40:03:03 - 01:40:04:15
Jessica
Interesting. Yeah.
01:40:04:17 - 01:40:09:04
Jamey
Very good guys. Lots of wisdom. Good stuff. I got some bombs today.
01:40:09:04 - 01:40:09:17
Susan
Good stuff.
01:40:09:23 - 01:40:12:02
Jamey
Thanks for sharing your stories and for for being so vulnerable.
01:40:12:04 - 01:40:13:08
Jessica
Yeah. Of course. Yeah.
01:40:13:08 - 01:40:14:02
Jamey
Inspiring.
01:40:14:02 - 01:40:14:15
Susan
We love it.
01:40:14:15 - 01:40:15:05
Jamey
Pumps me up.
01:40:15:10 - 01:40:16:14
Jessica
Thank you for leading us.
01:40:16:17 - 01:40:22:17
Susan
Thank you. Thanks for being here. Thank you. Yep.
01:40:22:19 - 01:40:47:11
Jamey
Congratulations. You made it to the end. You listening? If you enjoy what you heard. If you enjoy these episodes, please subscribe and like and share wherever you listen to podcasts. When you do that, it goes a long way and helps us continue to produce great new content. This episode is brought to you by six App Storytelling, where we help businesses grow their brands.
01:40:47:13 - 01:40:55:07
Jamey
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