Narrator: Welcome to the IT
Matters podcast, where we
explore why IT matters and
matters pertaining to IT.
Keith Hawkey: Welcome to the IT
Matters podcast hosted by
Opkalla. At Opkalla we help IT
teams understand the busy
marketplace of technology,
strategy, and services with a
data driven approach. On this
podcast, we invite technology
leaders to discuss the
challenges facing the modern IT
department. My name is Keith
Hawkey, Technology Advisor with
Opkalla, and today we're
discussing IT leadership and how
empathy plays an important role
in upgrading your IT team with
two very special guests Jess
Levin, Technology Advisor with
Opkalla that has half a decade
of experience working alongside
the brightest CIOs and CISOs in
the business and Glenn Hasteadt.
Glenn is the IT director for
Onslow County and a frequent
speaker and instructor for
cultural change in general
leadership. He has a keen
passion for leadership topics.
He also hosts a workshop for
school and government on how to
build powerful teams. His team
has been recognized as a Digital
Counties Top 10 recipient
recipient for the past seven
years, and Glenn was recognized
as at the NCLGISA IT
professional of the year in
2023. Glenn has served the
public sector since 1998, and
brings almost three decades of
experience to the podcast, Glenn
and Jess, welcome to the IT
Matters podcast.
Glenn Hasteadt: Thanks for
having me.
Jess Levin: Excited to be here.
Keith Hawkey: Likewise, first,
Glenn, what is the Digital
Counties Top 10 and how does one
become recognized?
Glenn Hasteadt: It's published
by e.Republic, I believe. It's a
survey that's sent out to every
county in the country, they then
take all those surveys back and
then rank everybody. It's an
interesting distinction to have,
you know, Onslow County, a
little county here on the coast
in North Carolina, you know, to
get recognized at a national
level, it's pretty big deal for
us.
Keith Hawkey: How many counties
generally apply for?
Glenn Hasteadt: I have no idea.
You know, I don't know how many
apply. I know, there's 100
counties alone in the state of
North Carolina, I don't know how
many there are across the
nation, I have no idea how many
apply. But I'm, I know, it's a
pretty big deal. They give the
awards out at the county
conference every year that they
have, wherever in the country.
Keith Hawkey: It's always nice
to have, you know, IT
departments become recognized.
I've seen more and more of that
lately, particularly. I think IT
for a long time was the unsung
hero, but with the social media
and how IT has become so
integral to the business success
of the modern organization, more
and more accolades, and public,
highlights are becoming more
frequent.
Glenn Hasteadt: Yeah, that's
what you guys do, too. Right. As
you know IT companies become
more successful and you'll get
that limelight, get that shine.
Jess Levin: On the topic of
Keith's point in IT playing a
super integral role in the
greater like development of
organizations as a whole, right?
One thing that I've noticed just
in my shorter tenure has been in
certain organizations, there can
be a divide between the IT
vertical versus some of the
business departments,
operations, etc. In speaking
with you, it feels like there is
a level of camaraderie and
togetherness in the organization
as a whole. And I'd love to hear
a little bit more about the role
that you play as an IT leader in
creating some of that
environment.
Unknown: Without the there's no
point in having us, right. If
all those lines of business were
here, there's no point to have
IT, you know, doing IT for the
sake of IT is fun. But you know,
really doesn't serve a lot of
purpose. And so we recognize
that all the almost 30 different
lines of business that we
support, you know, they're the
ones that are on the pointy end
of the stick that are serving
our citizens that are serving
our communities. You know, we
don't rescue people from burning
buildings and things like that,
but we support the people who do
and that's where we get to make
a difference, right? If we can
make their jobs easier, if we
can make their jobs possible. If
we can make the integration with
the citizen better and easier.
That's where we can win because
we don't we don't get to, you
know, serve the community in a
direct sense. For the most part
Keith Hawkey: Glenn what do you
think is the number one issue
holding back IT leaders today?
They are looking to upgrade
their leadership, upgrade their
their capacity to build the most
cohesive teams. You know, in
your years of experience, what's
what's missing?
Glenn Hasteadt: There's a
distinct lack of focus on, on,
frankly, on leadership, you
know, many of us were promoted
out of very technical roles for
being really good technical
people. And this is stuff that
we went to school for. And you
know, we have years of
experience, but then, when
you're thrust into a leadership
position, that's literally an
entirely different job. And if
we don't try to learn the skills
that make that job successful,
then we can't achieve the best
that we can achieve. And our
teams and our teams can't
either. I really feel like an
organization's culture is the
most determinant factor for
current and future success over
any technology or anything, if
you don't have a great culture,
if you don't have an environment
where people feel safe, where
they can innovate and do those
things, then it doesn't matter
what technology you have, you're
only going to be so good. And
you're never going to be able to
like you guys, bring great
technology to organizations, if
they don't have the wherewithal
to leverage that you're never
going to achieve what you
possibly could achieve with all
that.
Jess Levin: I guess what would
be some advice that you would
give to the newer or more newly
emerging technology leaders on
how to clearly communicate
objectives versus expectations?
I know in speaking with you,
that's a framework that you've
followed. And it's, it's worked
for you tried and true. Yeah,
I'd love to hear your
perspective.
Unknown: To me, there's like,
five different things you really
have to focus on. Right?
Obviously, you got to build
trust first, every relationship
is built on trust. Leadership is
nothing but a relationship. But
you have to have clear
expectations, you have to have
clear objectives. If people
don't know where the finish line
is, they can't ever exceed it,
you'll just demotivate them,
because they'll never be able to
reach it, you have to
communicate three times more
than you think you do. That
communication isn't just words
on a paper or spoken word. It's
appreciation and correction.
Right? If like, Jess you do a
great job, if I, if I appreciate
you, I'm going to appreciate you
in front of the whole team. I'm
sure Keith, Keith would do the
same thing, right? When you
appreciate someone you
appreciate them in front of the
whole team. And that's doing
nothing but clarifying
objectives and expectations for
people. Yes, you're appreciating
someone. But you're also you're
also saying, hey, my
expectations are here, you're
way up here. And that's great.
And everybody wants to be
appreciated and valued for, you
know what they bring. So if they
see me praising you, the rest of
the team is gonna go oh, that,
you know, I want to do that, you
know, I want to I want the boss
to call me out for that. And a
lot of times, what we do is we
focus on correcting people, you
know, still communicating
expectations, it's just the
other side of the coin. The
problem with that is you're only
correcting one person, you're
only clarifying expectations for
one person, you really get more
bang for your buck, doing doing
positive reinforcement than you
do with negative. And this is
the one thing I try to get
across whenever I'm speaking or
teaching is if you look for what
people are doing right instead
of what they're doing wrong,
you'll have that material to
clarify expectations for
everybody in a positive way, as
opposed to a negative way. So I
mean, I know when you're working
with companies, relationships,
and communication is huge,
right? So how do you how do you
get your point across when
you're when you're talking to
somebody?
Keith Hawkey: I'll add one
aspect to that, you know, since
we, we work heavily with with
the leadership roles of IT but
also you know, we're in the
trenches with the network admins
and the infrastructure managers
and the cybersecurity analysts
and building them up in front of
in front of their bosses when
they're doing a great job I've
found to to get everyone on
board, get everyone on the same
page when they're making a
transformation. So highlighting
on calls, how how well, everyone
that's that's in the trenches
doing the day to day work, and
the value that they brought,
they brought to bring a trend of
bringing a transformation to
life bringing a technology
change, that requires a
significant amount of effort.
And a lot of times, you know,
these these moves can can go
wrong, you know, whether you're
deploying a new technology or
you didn't onboard properly. So
highlighting the good work of
everyone involved is a key part
to our strategy in helping that
team be cohesive.
Jess Levin: One of the important
aspects to take into
consideration is on the front
end, we really take the time to
understand what is the business
objective and what are they
trying to to do, accomplish,
what is the goal, right. And so
there's a level of
accountability in the
partnership from the technology
advisor, Opkalla side and the
customer side. And so I feel
like it creates a good, good
dynamic for us to help get them
there. But along the way through
the positive reinforcements,
like Keith was mentioning, and
understanding what their role is
in the part that they play and
recognizing how implementing a
new technology may affect them
and the organization at whole.
And so I think it's to your
point, there's a lot of
communication and moving parts
involved.
Glenn Hasteadt: is I'm caring
about the people that I have in
the room that I'm blessed to
have on my team, and I spend
time with them on their careers
and spend time with them and on
whatever issues they're facing
at the time. And, you know, that
goes a long way when when
somebody really feels like you
care about them and their
problems, as opposed to just
making a sale for your, you
know, on your side, or it's just
to get whatever task done on my
side, you know.
Keith Hawkey: Glenn you make a
good point. And I think it all
starts with culture. Yeah, it
all begins with why why are we
doing this? Why why are we here?
Why are we you know, outside of
making, you know, career and
income and supporting our
families? Where do our hearts
lie? One of the ways that
Opkalla engenders a level of
compassion within their their
teams is we have Monday morning
meetings, and we adjourn every
meeting with recognition of
various, you know, everyone
within the company, from, you
know, operations, to sales to
leadership of who has gone above
and beyond and who has fulfilled
one of our cultural
characteristics. There are times
that I'm thinking, What can I do
this week, to be recognized on
that Monday morning meeting? Who
can I help? I think it's brought
about a lot of camaraderie with
within our organization. And
it's very practical, the way
that's implemented,
Glenn Hasteadt: I love that. We
actually start all of our
meetings with kudos. I've been
here eight and a half years,
I've never been able to start a
monthly meeting without kudos.
We also do something fun too. As
you know, I've got a bunch of
introverts in the room, and two
divisions, and one of the
divisions is GIS, which is
geographic information systems.
The whole country is really just
scratching the surface of what
GIS can do. And we really want
to drive that capability into
the organization. And so I
needed them to go out and
evangelize. Well, that's tough
when you got a bunch of people
that really don't want to speak
in front of other people. What
we started doing is we started
having TED Talks every month,
and somebody different on the
team has to give a TED talk.
Everybody in the room has to
sign up. And that's 15 minutes
and I didn't care what they
spoke about as long as it was
safe at work, you know, so it
could have been work related,
not work related, it didn't
matter to me. The point was, I
wanted them to get some
experience doing public speaking
and things like that. It's been
wonderful. We've had like
birdwatching, and origami, and
self defense and just wonderful
topics that range, you know,
just across the board. And
what's great is, it's topics
that everybody's passionate
about. And so when you learn
more about that person, now you
can have that closer
relationship and things like
that. So it's really brought us
even closer together too, which
was kind of cool. But you know,
to do that, to have that
environment. First, though, we
had a focus, you know, I've been
focusing on years and creating
an environment where people feel
safe. Where they feel like they
can be their authentic self. And
that way, when they're doing
these TED talks, you know,
everybody in the room is
cheering for them. They're just
looking for what they're gonna
do right, and the only person
that sees what they're doing
wrong, is the person that's
giving the speech. And they know
that. And that's what empowers
them to do that, I guess. But
that's, yeah, that's an
important part of it. And I
think you're doing that too,
when you're working with
technology teams, you know, when
you call them out for them being
great like that you're really
creating a safe place for them
to make that technology work.
Jess Levin: I think that's an
interesting perspective. Because
the TED talks, they create a
level of confidence in in
specifically this narrow that
the GIS team going out to
evangelize, right, but it also
empowers them to make sure
internally on group meetings
that their voices being heard,
and I think it plays a part so
much greater than maybe that one
specific scenario. They, you
know, think that they're doing
that activity for, I just think
it goes a long way. On the topic
of just empathy, building trust,
truly caring about your team, on
a personal level, what do you do
if somebody is suffering or
experiencing, like personal
hardships? How do you create the
space of trust for them to open
up to you like, as an IT leader,
what are some of your tactics in
handling that.
Glenn Hasteadt: That's probably
one of the most important things
you can do. You know, it's easy
to celebrate when somebody's kid
wins an award at school or
whatever. But when people are
going through health issues, or
whatever it is, you know,
difficulties in life, those
valleys in life that we all
experience. You know, in my
history, when somebody had
anything like that going on,
everybody would kind of walk
around them on eggshells for a
couple of weeks, you know, that
doesn't help them, you know,
that doesn't help you, that
doesn't help them, that doesn't
help the team. You know when
somebody has a problem, I'm
there, and they know that I'm
there with them. And I'm going
to go through it with them, just
like, just like a friend would
just like a family member would,
I'm going to be there with them
as close as they want me to be
or they allow me to be. But they
do know that I care about them.
And that I really, I'm really
there just for them. The other
side of that is you're able to
be there for them, that
relationship that you have with
that person grows exponentially
more so than if you were to just
celebrate with them. Right? If
you say Keith was going through
a hardship, and I leaned into
that and said, Hey, buddy, I'm
here with you. I'm going through
this with you, you know, and,
and I check in with him on, you
know, time to time and I, you
know, we're not just there to
listen, hey, I'm just here to
listen, I'm not going to try to
fix it, you need to talk up
here. And if I'm able to be
there with him, and he feels
that authenticity of me really
being there, we're gonna have a
much tighter relationship when
we're done. I mean, wouldn't you
say that Keith, if I was to lean
into something like that?
Keith Hawkey: Absolutely. And it
reminds me of why, why we, why
we stick with companies and how
loyalty is is is inculcated, you
know, the number one reason that
people leave companies is
because they don't feel a
connection with the leadership
and the people they work with,
you know, there's obviously
money is obviously, you know,
perhaps the, you know, the brand
of the company, who they are and
how that matches onto your
identity. But you'll you'll come
across people and professionals
in jobs that, you know, they
could go find something that
pays them more, they could find
a company that's more reputable,
reputable in a way, but they
stay there because of the
relationships they've built with
their colleagues, maybe maybe
leadership. And in our world,
especially a couple of years
ago, when COVID was in its full
throes, it seemed attracting and
retaining talent was incredibly
difficult. You know, you could
get a 15% pay raise every six
months if you change jobs during
that time. So the you know, the
way that IT leaders that I've
worked with, leaned in on
establishing that rapport and
watering the plant every day.
It's it is a relationship
relationships, take work. I'm
married. So I know a little bit
about this. And, you know,
treating the relationship as
important as the job they're
doing. You know, it keeps people
around, keeps people engaged.
And they'll go the extra mile,
not because they need to impress
somebody, but but because they
care about your relationship.
They care. You know, they'll
care about your success Glenn,
as a leader. They'll want you to
look good, because you've
reached out and made sure that
you know, they care.
Glenn Hasteadt: I mean, I think
you just made a great point. You
know, we're intentional about
our relationships and our
marriage, kids, friends, you
know, we spend time on those.
We're here, we're at work more
than we're home. Why wouldn't we
be more intentional about those
relationships? Why wouldn't we
be more lean into those
relationships more? I think a
lot of leaders, you know, we've
been told, you need to be a
leader and not a friend. Okay,
you know, we still need to care
about people. We still you know,
yes, there's a mission there's
job that we have to do and, and
those management tasks are
important but leadership tasks
are really built on
relationships and trust and
things like that. I can't build
an environment in this room, if
people don't trust me and my
motives, I can't build an
environment in this room, if
people don't feel supported,
like they can make a mistake and
actually fail forward. I don't
get all the benefits of the team
if they don't feel safe. I'm
sure if you ever worked anywhere
where it was relatively toxic, I
mean, what did you do, you kept
your head down, you did what you
were told and that was it.
Meanwhile, if you work somewhere
where you feel safe, where you
feel like you can contribute,
where you can fail forward, well
now the sky's the limit, now I
get access to all of your skills
and abilities and the
differences that make you you.
And you get to leverage them
towards our mission. And I'm
sure you guys see that quite a
bit. When you go from place to
place, there's different people
everywhere you go. And it's a
matter of how they can leverage
those skills and abilities.
Right?
Jess Levin: Yeah, I think it
helps to foster innovation
across the team too. When you
feel safe, you feel more open to
sharing the ideas that maybe you
wouldn't necessarily if you
weren't super comfortable. I
know especially for the more
introverted folks, I think it
benefits, it does so much more
than just build their personal
confidence, I think it creates,
again, a space for innovation,
which is going to impact the
team, the organization. I had a
question regarding the time
management or the aspect of
being an IT leader, and you
invest so much time and
resources and energy into
creating these strong
relationships and building the
culture and building trust
amongst the team. Right? And do
you feel like in the beginning,
you had to spend more time
creating a framework that worked
and now it's kind of a well
oiled machine? And how do you
sort of manage that with the
tactical responsibilities that
come with IT leadership as well?
Glenn Hasteadt: Yeah I mean, as
technical people we're familiar
with keeping them keeping the
lights on, you know, keeping
things running and keeping
things safe, right. And that
that part, you know, we don't
have to really think about
anymore. But creating this
culture in here, you know, it's
conceptually easy to, you know,
actually just care about people
and build trust. And it sounds
easy, but actually putting your
feet there every minute, being
intentional about that every
minute of every day is really
hard. I had notes on my desk,
like my first six to nine
months, I had notes on my desk,
with my culture goals. You know,
this is what I want to this is
the kind of culture that I'm
trying to create. And don't
forget this. And don't forget
that. And my desk was literally
covered with post it notes,
reminding me what to do. And I
would go out and we'd be doing
stuff. And I'd come back to my
desk, and oh, yeah, I go back
out. And, you know, that was
really hard for about six to
nine months. But frankly, after
that, it just became who I was.
And the joy of it is it's really
hard in the beginning. But now
eight and a half years later, it
gets exponentially easier,
right? When we onboard people, I
don't have to go through the
effort to get them integrated
into our culture. The team does
it, you know, just it just
happens. And actually, it's kind
of fun when we hire new people
they, they normally they'll be
like, Oh, this is just, you
know, everybody's been nice to
me, because I'm new, you know,
and it's fun, because I get to
watch them and like, you know,
however long it takes two, three
months, and they go, Oh, no,
this is how these people are.
And yeah, it's just to me, it's
fun to watch that light bulb go
on. Yeah, they've been waiting
for the other shoe to drop for
two or three weeks or whatever
it is. And then then they like,
No, this is it. This is how
these people are and it's just
it's wonderful.
Keith Hawkey: Really makes it
easy to go into work.
Glenn Hasteadt: Oh, I love it.
Yeah. And that's what a great
way to to think about your
culture. Right? Your your
culture of your organization is
how you think Sunday night with
Monday coming. And it's not just
you, right? It's how it's the
people on the team. How do they
think about going in Monday
morning, Sunday night? Are they
dreading it? Are they ambivalent
or are they excited? You know, I
had a lady that was in the team.
She was out for Thanksgiving
with family and stuff. She's
like, I couldn't wait to get
back to work. That's, that's
awesome. Yeah.
Keith Hawkey: What are your
thoughts on the the youth coming
through the IT department today?
Are you you know, I think that
bring humanity into leadership
is universal. However, you know,
from a management standpoint and
leadership standpoint, is there
any difference when you're
working to build rapport and to
get the most out of some of the
younger generation that are
coming through IT, compared to
those that have been around for
a couple of decades, personality
differences that you're noticing
or any tactics that are more
effective?
Glenn Hasteadt: People are
people, right? You want to feel
cared for, you want to feel like
you're valued, you want to feel
like you matter. And that it's
important that it's you and not
somebody else in that chair.
Right. I think, you know, we got
people at all different stages
of their career here are people
that are ready to retire, people
that still have a few years and
people that are younger than my
youngest, you know, just
starting out their career. To
me, what's important is, well,
you got to, you got to
communicate with everybody a
little differently, you know,
the communication is a little
different, but spending time
with them, you know, in my
office and understanding what
their goals are, what their
challenges are, where they need
help, where they, you know,
where they see themselves
exceeding, you know, and things
like that is really helpful. I
actually especially take a
little more time with the
younger staff coming in, because
they're not thinking for the
most part of their career and
their career path. Nobody's ever
asked them what they want their
business card to say when they
retire. You know, nobody's ever
asked them what they want their
career to look like in five or
10 years. And so they have to
really spend a lot of time
thinking about that. But just
asking that question and getting
them to think about that, and
making sure they know that it's
important to you is huge. And
that's true of people in the
middle of their career as well.
Maybe nobody's ever asked them
their entire career, and they've
been in the industry for 20
years, just spending that time
with them, hey, where do you
want to go? And let's see how we
can get you there. Give me a
project that that lines up with
that and things like that. So
you can get some experience and
see if that's really what you
want to do. I know anybody on my
team says they want to go into
leadership. I mean, they they
buckle up, because they know
it's coming. And, you know,
we're reading books, and we're
talking about them. And, you
know, we're giving the behind
the scenes. You know, why did I
say this a certain way, why did
I write this email like that.
And this was my goal. And that
kind of I can peek behind the
curtain, so to speak, and they
can understand, you know, how
much effort is really put into
it. And they can see if that's
what they really want to do. But
I think that's really what it
is, is understanding. Just like
you guys, when you're working
with, if you're working with a
technology leader, what they say
they want sometimes isn't what
their goals really are, right?
You have to kind of discover the
best way to solve to solve that
problem, right?
Jess Levin: And that's hard to
do if there's not trust in the
relationship. So I feel like
it's a full circle conversation,
right? There's investments into
that. And then it creates a nice
cohesive relationship for us to
take a seat, you know, in the
front seat with them and help
them really roadmap like you
said, you want this but maybe
this is actually what you want
playing a part in that is
special.
Keith Hawkey: Vulnerability
plays a pretty key part in
relationship building. You know,
I think I think in our industry,
you run across a lot of people
that certainly like to have the
appearance that they know
everything. That they can solve
all of your problems. That
doesn't bring about trust, from
from my experience, you know, I
think leading with some level of
vulnerability, of humanity, you
know, humility in a way and
coming across in a manner that,
look, there are ways that you
might be able to help but you're
still human. And if you don't
know, the answers to questions,
you want to demonstrate that
you'll go find the answers. You
don't you don't have to be an
expert in everything. Leading
with humility is a way that I've
think personally, I've been able
to form some of my closest
relationships is they've gotten
to know me as a flawed person,
as a flawed individual. Whoever,
whatever IT leader that I'm
working with, if you lead this
way, they will reciprocate and
they will open up in that
manner. So yeah, I'd say leading
with humility has certainly been
one of my most powerful
strategies to bring about a deep
rapport.
Glenn Hasteadt: Yeah because I
told my team if I got the best
idea in the room, we're messing
up. I mean, because, you know,
they're, they're amazing. I got
the best team in the state. I
mean, they're just fantastic and
got the awards to prove it.
That's right. And I want I need
to get them like to address this
point, they need to feel safe,
and they need to have that
trust. That's one mistake I
think a lot of leaders make is
when they're promoted, now, they
feel like they have to have all
the answers, they have to be the
best in the room they have to.
And that's not true. Otherwise,
why would you have the team? You
know, if you could do it all,
then why do you have a team, you
have that team for the different
points of view and, and, and the
different abilities that they
bring, it's not just a pair of
hands, to do your ideas, you
know, and, and when I came here,
and I was able to say, Hey, this
is what I like, the way I would
bring them into that is, you
know, a lot of times people are
afraid to disagree with the
boss. I would have to give them
kind of permission. So I would
say, Hey, I think this tells me
where this is wrong. Or tell me
where this goes bad. And so I'm
giving them the permission then
to disagree with me. And that's
what started it. Now, I'm always
wrong. You know, now, they
always have, there's always a
better idea in the room, which
is wonderful, which is exactly
why I have everyone there. And
you know, I start with this, and
then they build on it. And then
someone else builds on that
inside innovation that just was
talking about earlier, just kind
of steamrolls until we have
something that's really, really
cool.
Jess Levin: You're able to
storytell specific engagements,
or just like action items that
you created that have actually
developed your team to, to grow
and meet the objectives that you
were you were looking for, right
like to I'm sure a lot of
leaders say I want to create a
space of innovation, right?
That's the goal. But in you
saying you open up conversations
to make them feel comfortable to
tell you how you're wrong or
tell you how things could feel
differently. Like that's that's
action. And I feel like that's
that's the difference maybe that
some leaders don't have or could
be looking for to fill that gap.
So I think your perspective is,
is really, really cool and
hopefully it will help a lot of
people who choose to listen.
Glenn Hasteadt: When a lot of
people talk about culture
change, when I hear leaders talk
to me about culture change. A
lot of times they talk about it
as how they want the team to
change. And that's not how it
works, right? The culture in the
room is a reaction to me. Right?
It's they react to the leader,
for the most part. And if I see
something that I don't like in
the first place, I need to look
in the mirror and say, What am I
doing that's allowing or
promoting that behavior? And
then then I can address it. And
that perspective of I'm the
first person that needs to
change is essential to creating
this environment. And like I
talked about changing culture, I
speak quite a bit. And I'll do
it with people on my team in the
room. Yeah, so if I if I wasn't
saying what I what I what I
actually do, that would be
incredibly disruptive.
Keith Hawkey: But the change
begins with the leader, not the
other way around. I think that
is a perfect message to leave on
here as we conclude our
conversation. Glenn, how can
people find you if we have our
listeners that would like to
bounce some ideas off of you or
learn from your experience?
Glenn Hasteadt: I'm really
active on LinkedIn. There's not
too many Hasteadts on LinkedIn,
or any I don't think so I'm
really active on LinkedIn. And
you know, if you want to reach
out if you need, want me to come
talk to your group, or talk at
your conference, that would be
powerincaring.com,
powerincaring.com. And that's a
great way to get in touch with
me there too.
Keith Hawkey: Thank you, Glenn
and Jess for hopping on the IT
Matters podcast. We will include
how to get in contact with Glenn
in the show notes. We appreciate
you tuning in to the IT Matters
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time.
Narrator: Thanks for listening.
The IT Matters Podcast is
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advisory firm that helps
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