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Welcome to the Midwifery Wisdom Podcast
This podcast is your go-to resource for practical education, thoughtful insights, and relevant conversations tailored to modern midwives.
Each week, we bring fresh content and engaging guest speakers to explore key themes in midwifery, including:
Advocacy, business, and clinical skills
Self-care and professional growth
Current issues shaping midwifery today
Listen to meaningful stories and essential advice from leading midwives working to elevate care for families across the globe. Gain clarity, encouragement, and actionable guidance to support your business, practice, and personal life.
Wherever you are in your journey, the Midwifery Wisdom Podcast is here to empower you. Together, we strive to make midwifery the gold standard of care worldwide.
Corina Edit
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[00:00:00] So my brother was born unassisted. My mother, for whatever reason, decided when she was 12 that she was gonna have a natural birth even though that was not what my grandmother did.
And, and so when she got pregnant with my brother, she was seeing an obstetrician. She didn't really know about midwives, so she was just doing the regular care. But she told the doctor that she was gonna birth at home, and the doctor was like, "Well, I don't do home birth." And she said, "Well, that's fine. We'll be fine."
So her and my dad read the Mexican Midwives Manual and the emergency 911 Fire Rescue Guide to Childbirth, and figured, they had it covered. And they had about 20 people at their birth, including the local goat herder who probably had the most birthing experience of anyone in the room.
And everything went well, but my father was very, very relieved when she gave birth with midwives on The Farm the second time just to not have the responsibility of that.
[00:01:00] Corina, you have done so much and you have experienced so much, even starting as a kid being exposed to midwifery, and then choosing it as your career, and then coming back home. And this is such a journey, and I wanna take everyone on this full ride with us. So let's start at the beginning. Corina, will you do an introduction and tell us, where you [00:02:00] are and maybe how you got started in midwifery?
Or even before that, because that's a story, too. I don't know. Start wherever you wanna start Well, okay. So I am, in Tennessee on The Farm, the infamous farm. And, yeah, I, I always like to say that I feel like I was born into midwifery. I was born out in the woods in a bus, an old school bus that was our parent-- my parents' home at the time.
And before my parents came here, they actually lived in a little much smaller commune in Colorado. And so I'm the second child. So my brother was born unassisted. My mother, for whatever reason, decided when she was 12 that she was gonna have a natural birth even though that was not what my grandmother did.
And, and so when she got pregnant with my brother, she was seeing, like, an obstetrician. She didn't really know about midwives, so she was just doing the regular care. But she told the doctor that she was gonna birth at home, and [00:03:00] the doctor was like, "Well, I don't do home birth." And she said, "Well, that's fine.
We'll be fine." So she, her and my dad read the Mexican Midwives Manual and the emergency 911 Fire Rescue Guide to Childbirth, and figured, they had it covered. And they had about 20 people at their birth, including the local goat herder who probably had the most birthing experience of anyone in the room.
And everything went well, but my father was very, very relieved when she gave birth with midwives on The Farm the second time just to not have the responsibility of that. And so yeah, then I grew up here. I lived here till I was 10 years old. We lived in large communal houses with 20, 30 other people and, had a very radically different childhood than most people, including midwifery being, like, at the center of the community.
And I didn't attend any births when I was that [00:04:00] young but my mother did, and, and it was just something that you understood to be, like, a normal community experience that happened in the home. And, and yeah. And then just in terms of, like- Growing up here, it was very communal. We didn't, we didn't really understand or get taught the concept of boundaries or even, like, a yard or a fence.
Those things didn't exist, and we, we, we never... There was no exchange of money during the time that I lived here. so, like, you just went to the store and you got a certain number or a certain amount of beans and rice or tofu, depending on how many people were in your household and that kind of thing.
So, we had our own school. We had a soy dairy. You know, the midwives were a big part of the community. Then there was also, like, the book publishing company. And we had a lot of freedom to just kind of roam the woods in these [00:05:00] big packs that were known as kid herds.
We've come to call The Farm a commune. What was it called at the time? I think back then it was it was called a commune or it was, or it just functioned as a commune. But, now it's called an intentional community. And even when I was younger and I'd, I'd call it a hippie commune, my mom would be like, "We were an intentional community."
So, you know, it was, it was founded on, on certain guiding principles like nonviolence and community, spirit- spiritual living, sustain- uh, sustainability and stewardship of the land and social justice. One of the, uh, organizations that came out of The Farm that still exists today is called Plenty, and it was kind of like our version of, of the Peace Corps.
It was, it was a organization that they've done projects, in this country and abroad to help their fellow humans. So like th- they had a, an ambulance service in the Bronx that they used to [00:06:00] run to, to areas where nobody else would go. A f- it was a free ambulance service. they've done projects in Guatemala and Haiti and many other places.
So yeah. So I kinda grew up with these ideas and principles, ideas around like we are all one was like one of like the, the precepts which is a beautiful concept, and I do believe that in some ways, and also it, it-- that kind of language can erase whole populations of people. So, you know, it's, it's been a journey kind of, yeah, looking at my roots and, and those, like guiding principles that really kind of were instilled in me before I had language for them.
It was just the air that I was breathing. And then, um- This must be so fascinating. I mean, this is one of the reasons I really wanted to talk to you, is I also know you as a social justice advocate and incredibly aware of unpacking racism and privilege, and like you've done so [00:07:00] much maybe modern work on understanding our place in the world.
And, and yet to come with this baked-in knowledge influence as a kid it must have taken you so long to like make sense of the messages. I'm, I'm just so curious. Yeah. I... Yeah. Yeah. Keep going. I just feel it for you. It's been a journey. It's been a journey. Yeah. I can imagine. Yeah. So I would, I would say the next big thing that happened in my life was leaving The Farm when we were when I was 10, and that happened a year after what's known now as the changeover.
And so before the changeover, we talk about the old farm, and then after the changeover is the new farm. And essentially, it was a lot of different changes that happened, but one of the biggest ones was economically. So it changed from communistic structure, where you never saw money or dealt with money other than your parents.
When they arrived to the commune, they had to take on a vow of poverty and give up any material possessions that they may have had [00:08:00] toward the communal pot. But so anyway, after, it changed to capitalistic, we stayed for one more year. But in that year, there was a mass exodus. Ina May has often referred to it as a, like a mass divorce.
because, you know, like with any charismatic leader, there often are issues with hierarchy and people... And also people were like, you know, when The Farm first started, everyone was in their 20s and having lots of babies, and it was just blossoming and all these children were being born.
And then as they got older, and they're now maybe in their late 20s, early 30s, this idea of like, "Well, Stephen says this," you know, or, "Steven says that," was like I'm not... That's not cool anymore." Like, "I have my own ideas," and that kind of thing. So I thought my parents would never leave, but we left a year later and moved to Hollywood, Florida, where my mother's parents lived.
And, I had a [00:09:00] lot of rude awakenings into life in the, quote-unquote, "real world." Like the first summer we went to, a camp and I was on the camp playground, and there was this girl that didn't go to the camp, but she was on the top of the slide, and she probably was, like, 10 or 12, and she had a lot of makeup on.
And I was so indoctrinated from The Farm of you don't wear makeup, you don't wear jewelry. Like, it's just a big ego thing and whatnot. And so, so I told the girl, like, "You're not so hot just 'cause you got makeup on." And she went down the slide, and then she cornered me with a switchblade. and my brother and sister went and ran and got the camp counselors, but I was just like, "Ah!
Oh my God. Okay, I'll keep my mouth shut from now on." From a concept of nonviolence to, like, in the big, bad world with violence even from children. Yeah. Ooh, that's a big shift. Yeah. That was wild. And then, like, you know, going to school for the first time and everyone standing up to say the Pledge of Allegiance, and I [00:10:00] had never heard it.
I had no idea what was going on, but I wanted to fit in, so I stood up and I put my hand over my heart and pretended to mouth the words. And I didn't tell anyone of my origins until I was in high school. I was very embarrassed by my hippie origins and, like, you know, we cut and feathered our hair.
It was the mid-'80s, and people didn't know what a vegetarian was, much less a vegan, which was how we ate. And so, yeah, I would say, like, despite the fact that I grew up in this very communal situation, I've always struggled with a sense of belonging. Yeah. That, because that was a big shift, and then just, I don't know, I've just always...
That's just been something that's been a part of my journey, I think. But my mother kept attending births even when we moved off The Farm to be an assistant for some Farm midwives that were living in Miami, and she would come home and tell me the stories. And so from when I was about, 11 or 12, I was like that's what I wanna be.
I'm gonna be a, I'm [00:11:00] gonna be a ballerina and a midwife." That's what I was gonna be. And- Good combo. Yeah. And I am a dancer. I've always, I've been a dancer my whole life. I stopped doing ballet in college and got into more, like, African diasporic dance and belly dance and things like that. But, But I did end up doing both.
And I moved out to UC Berkeley when I was 18 to go to college, and I started, um... I did a class with Elizabeth Davis, actually. It was, like, a four-month introductory midwifery class, and I did a doula training and was so excited to go to my first birth, and it took so-- it felt like forever. Like, I did the training in September, and I was volunteering for the Berkeley Free Access Clinic, so it was for low-income moms.
And then they asked if anyone spoke Spanish, and I was like, "Well, I speak some Spanish." And so then they only gave me Mexican clients, and I learned birth Spanish. And, but the thing was, because we [00:12:00] were free, I think people didn't realize the value of what we had to offer, and so they would just forget to call in labor.
So it took-- It didn't end up happening until April 18th. and that was my birthday, my 21st birthday. I love that. So I had my first birth on my 21st birthday. It's so special. Gosh. Ah, so much to think about. Well, so when you attended your first birth, did you know then, like, "Oh, yeah, this is for me," or was it a rude awakening or shocking in any way?
I took it as a sign that I was on the right path, but it was different than I expected. It was... The woman had-- She had gotten an epidural before I got there. So it was a medicated birth, and it was in the hospital. So it was, like, very different from birth as I knew it theoretically because I hadn't been to a home birth yet.
But, just growing up around it, ... but I just remember, like, the head, starting to see the little bit of the head, and, like, when I-- it was just, like, a little bit and then a little bit more, and every time I thought, "Oh, my God, that's it." [00:13:00] And then it would just get bigger and big- and I was like, "Oh, my God."
It was like I couldn't believe how much she expanded. That was, like, mind-blowing to me. Yeah ... and then, Yeah. There's a reason the crowning picture is such a ubiquitous symbol, is it is so miraculous, for sure. It is. It is. Yeah ... and then, so that was April of 1995, and I went back to The Farm that summer and spent the summer.
We u- we would come back every year, pretty much every year, my family and I even after we left, 'cause there was a annual reunion gathering. But that summer was the first time I spent on The Farm for that length of time. I was there for three months to apprentice with the midwives, and, I went to my first home birth.
I went to, like, three births that summer. It wasn't a lot, but but that first home birth was pretty intense. It was a mom-- It was-- She was having her second baby, and there was way too many people there. There was, like, Ina May and Pamela and Carol and Deborah and Joanne, and then there was, like, three apprentices, including [00:14:00] myself.
That is a crew. And we weren't all in the room at the same time, but we were kind of hanging out in the l- in the dining room area. And anyway, she got hung up at eight centimeters for quite a while, and then, she finally progressed but the baby came out and had a very tight nuchal cord and they had to cut it, before the baby was born.
And then the baby needed resuscitation and then the baby-- they blew a pneumo, and so, they had to take the baby. So that was my first home birth. And for some reason- Yeah ... it didn't scare me away. I was like, "Okay, when I have my license and I know what I'm doing, you know, I'll know what I'm doing and I'll be able to handle it."
And, Wow ... and then I got to go to an Amish birth, which was really cool. And, yeah. And so at, at that point, I was just like, "Okay, I have to decide which school." 'Cause weirdly enough, I was living in California. There was no schools in California at that time- At the time. Yeah ... for direct entry midwifery, and I knew I wanted to be a home birth community midwife.
[00:15:00] I ended up moving back to South Florida because I, there was a school at Miami Dade College that was- Right ... yeah, direct entry. It was, it was basically free 'cause I could get financial aid and and so I went there, and I got to attend births in Jamaica and Haiti as part of my training.
And yeah, got licensed in '99 and started my own home birth practice there. Wow. Did you go to Jamaica with Charlene? With who? Charlene? Charlene. Is that her name? I think so. Me too. Yeah. Yeah. In that, yeah. Yeah. Princess Margaret Hospital. Yes. Yes. And then I decided the school that I went to, Miami Dade College, had a program called Transitional Nursing, that if you had another kind of healthcare license, you could get your RN in one year.
So- Oh, wow. That's cool ... once I got... Yeah. So once I got my midwifery license, I was like, "Okay, I'll just go ahead and do that too." And, ... and so I did that, and then I went [00:16:00] back right before I got a job in the NICU. that was my first job and my only job really, 'cause I mostly, I knew that I-- it wasn't, that wasn't my calling.
Midwifery was my calling. That was more like, "Okay, there's this other skill set that'll probably be helpful and also something I can fall back on if I need to." And, Mm-hmm ... but before I started working full time, I went back down to Jamaica and just volunteered at Princess Margaret for a couple weeks, and that was- Oh, so cool.
Yeah. And I've always had a passion for, for travel, so I've, I'm blessed to have been able to, to do births in, I think, six different countries over my time and, Yeah. I used to take students down to Honduras to do births. I had been licensed for three years, and this other woman that I went to school with, who was, like, a born-again Christian, she had missionary connections in Honduras.
And so she was like, "Oh, do you wanna-- Should we take, like, let's take students." And I was like, I'm like, "We're only three years in." Like, you know? She's [00:17:00] like, "Well, we know more than they do." And I was like, "Oh, I guess you're right. Okay."
And I took- That's cool. I did that for three years, and it was wild to see the hospital change from this very low risk. It was, it didn't-- I guess the low risk part didn't change. Well, yeah, it did. It was low risk. It was kinda like a birth center. They didn't do any C-sections, so you had to transfer them out if they needed one.
Yeah. And then I came back the next year, and they had gotten this big grant from the Japanese government, and they had this beautiful new maternity suite, and they were now doing C-sections and routine Pitocin and episiotomies and so. Amazing how that shifts. Yeah. And it can shift back, but yeah.
Yeah. It takes a long time. Well, so you practiced for a while in Florida, and then at some point you decided to move back to The Farm. Yeah. Will you tell us about that? , I... Well, I would say even before that, 'cause that, that happened after the birth of my third daughter. [00:18:00] But, you know, I didn't-- I was a midwife for seven or eight years before I became a mother, and- Oh, wow
that- That's a big... Yeah. It was a very, a very humbling experience, my, my birth with Nahama, my oldest, who's now 19. And, eh, yeah, humbling birth experience. I, I had some scar tissue on my cervix, so, it took a while to dilate, and then I s- I kinda plateaued at six for, like, many hours, and I was in my head, like, psychoanalyzing my birth, which didn't help.
I was sure that my midwives were on the couch plotting my transport and that I was gonna have a C-section. And then, you know, after, like, 36 hours or so, I finally gave birth, and and then the postpartum journey was really rough because I stepped into motherhood as a single mother, and
Yeah, just, I just had so many [00:19:00] ideological thoughts and expectations about motherhood that were immediately smashed. And so, I really wanted to be, you know, this unconditionally loving, emotionally available, emotionally intelligent, responsive mother but that wasn't my experience growing up. So I was, as so many of us do a- and are doing, like, being these, you know, change makers and lineage changers
and so, Yeah, I guess it was just interesting to see, like, how much I knew as a midwife and how little that helped me as a new mother in s- in many ways. So then I went on to have a second... Well, I got I found a new partner, and I had another child, another daughter, and, and had a completely different experience postpartum.
It was, like, my most blissful postpartum. It was, like, everything that I'd always [00:20:00] wanted. And and I did this huge show with her when I was pregnant because I had a miscarriage 10 months before her, and my journey to conceive her after the miscarriage was much longer and harder than I thought.
And I, and so I wanted to share my story about pregnancy loss and the road to reconception. And so I did it with two different companies that I was a part of; one Venus Rising, which is an all-female percussion and dance ensemble, and then Cican Afro-Cuban Dance Theater, which is an Afro-Cuban company.
So it was, like, narrated. It was, like, Afro-Cuban dance, North African dance, Middle Eastern dance, and drumming, and storytelling, and ritual, and it just it brought together all of the pieces of myself. Mm-hmm ... and, and so it was, it was like this just explosion of creativity when I was pregnant with her.
And then- Wow ... and that was, like, 40 when I had her. And then, a year and a half later, surprise, pregnancy. And [00:21:00] I was very stressed during that pregnancy. We had just moved into a new house because the place where we were living, there was increasing gun violence. And so I moved out of the house that I owned into a rental and paid three times as much for that.
And at the same time, I wasn't working as much because I had a little baby. I had my middle daughter, and she was young. And my partner was very full of a lot of empty promises, let's say. He just, he was working on his own business and it was always about to explode but never happening.
So fast-forward, I give birth and, Just like a period of complete identity collapse and burnout. I had another midwife who was going to take call for me so that I could actually have a babymoon, but then I realized I can't afford to pay her. I need to start going back to birth.
So I was carrying her to births with me, and I was the sole provider, both financially and care-wise [00:22:00] for my family. And then I was, like, 42, so I think, you know, retrospectively, I was like, "Oh, I was probably going through perimenopause or beginning perimenopause and I'm postpartum having this major identity crisis," because for the first time...
Like, motherhood has always been something that has challenged me in a way where, like, I've had a lot of self-judgment and, like, guilt and shame and like, "Oh, I'm not, I'm not a good enough mom." But midwifery, I always felt that was, like, my zone of genius. I always felt really confident, and all of a sudden- Hmm
I was like, it, that was seeping into every aspect of my life, this feeling of being an imposter or not knowing enough. And yeah, and I had never had any mental health experience before, but I entered what would become really like a Nine-year journey with mental health Oh ... challenges. Yeah. That I'm just- That's so many
coming out of. and it was during that time, like I w- I was five months postpartum [00:23:00] with Amaya, my youngest, and I had this idea, this vision for a new archetype for motherhood that I call Motherfly. And then I founded an organization with that name. So it was a new organization dedicated to maternal wellness and empowerment, and Motherfly as an archetype is like this sharp pivot from the martyr and the supermom into a mother that is rooted in her own inherent worth, and into a mother that is thriving, she's flying like a butter- you know, like transformation like a butterfly, right?
Motherfly, like that symbol of transformation. but she's thriving not because she's a supermom. She's thriving because she's living within a matrix of relational support. And, ... and Amaya, like each of my daughters gave me something that b- later became part of my Motherfly matrix. My first daughter, Nahama, gave me the idea of a container, like we have to like create [00:24:00] containers for ourselves.
And then my, my, like the foundation for the container that I speak about is self-compassion. Which was a huge lesson for me in this whole journey because I, you know, I thought of myself as this superwoman that could do anything, you know? And I thought of myself as, you know, I thought, "Well, I'm a midwife.
I'm like, quote unquote, 'an expert,' or quote unquote, 'the one who knows.'" And here I am, and I have all these tools, all these tools that I've gathered from my life as a seeker, as a midwife, as all these different things that I'm into, and none of them were working. And- Mm ... so it was, I had so like so much shame in that.
I didn't even tell anyone that I was suffering from depression and anxiety until about a year into my depression, aside from my therapist. Mm-hmm. Wow So yeah, so I just became really passionate about maternal wellness. And then Jade, what I learned from her- ... creativity, which is part of that matrix.
Like we are as mothers, [00:25:00] as humans, but as mothers we are creative beings, and I think we can often lose sight and lose touch with our creative selves when we become mothers, and it's just so vital. It's not a luxury. It's so vital to, I love that. Yeah, to feeling alive. And then Amaya really brought me the piece around community because even though like I grew up in community, everywhere I've lived in my life, whether it was California or South Florida, I have created community.
Like some it's just something that I naturally do. But it could no longer, I could no longer pay lip service to the village. It had to be a lived experience, and that's what brought me back What brought me back to The Farm was really like seeking sanctuary more than anything else because like I said, I did have a really incredible community in Miami that I loved.
We were a part of a really amazing homeschool co-op, and then my birth worker community, my dance community. But I was really struggling I broke up with my second two daughters' [00:26:00] father, in 2019, and that was hugely liberating because he was very unsupportive and I was like, "God, at least I don't have to deal with him."
Being a single mom is hard, but like having to take care of somebody else or just deal with their crap is, uh, just a whole 'nother layer. And then he left and moved to Atlanta, so I was, you know, I was on my own and, I was selling my house, and I was on this road trip with my best friend who grew up here, with our kids, and we're coming up to The Farm to spend winter break.
And in the last like hour before we get here, our kids finally fall asleep. It's a 19-hour drive, right? So we could finally have a conversation, and I was not doing well at the time. I was kind of having these like waves of depression and anxiety and she said, "Well, maybe you should move back to The Farm."
And she just like said that, and I was like, okay." Then when we got to The Farm, when we passed the gate, it was like 2:00 in the morning, and we just rolled down our windows, and I just felt a complete shift in my [00:27:00] nervous system where like I could breathe again and, and it...
I was just like, "Wow, I could come back here," and The Farm could be like this chrysalis to help me transition from Belly Mama Midwifery, which was my home birth practice, to Motherfly. And Motherfly to, for me, was not only like this new passion, but it was also like my solution to the lack of sustainability that I was feeling as a single mom of three with two little ones, being a solo entrepreneur and a midwife and so, yeah, I basically during that trick, that trip, I, I just was like all about it. I... and then the pandemic hit, and I was like, "Okay, all the more reason to get out of the city." But you know, it was not easy coming back driving through the South in 2020, the middle of the pandemic, with my Black daughters right before the election and seeing Confederate flags, and I was [00:28:00] like, "What the fuck have I done?"
You know? And I was freaking out. And, it was a huge relief for me financially to be here. It's, so much cheaper than Miami. And I knew I was coming into, like, a very white community, but I thought that somehow being in the woods would make up for that. And I realized pretty early on that it, it didn't, that, it didn't make up for it, and I didn't know what I was gonna do, and I didn't think we would last here for more than a year, and here we are six years , a lot has... I mean, there's been a lot of changes, and I thankfully, I'm part of that. I'm on the membership committee now here. And yeah, I think there's a lot, there's a lot of passion for evolving this community. I think it, it has, stagnated in many ways for a while because especially, like, the more cut off you are from the outside world, like, it's just really easy to be stagnant in your own bubble, and, Yeah. So, and it was, it was just the-- I had to [00:29:00] face a lot of disillusionment, but as I realized it wasn't the utopia that I had remembered it being as a young child. And, and at the same time, there's it's really incredible to live in a small village where my daughters can roam the streets and go to the store or go down to the swimming hole on their own, or drive the golf cart wherever they want.
Or, you know, their friends just pop over. Nobody calls, they just show up at your door. And, when my older daughter was here, she used to always go to my apprentice's house and steal stuff from her fridge. And be like, "I borrowed some sugar," or whatever. And so there's something about that's really special, and, like, the level of safety that they have.
And then it just to- It's also really special that you're practicing midwifery- Yeah ... in The Farm. You know? Like that, that's such a full circle. Are there any other children of The Farm that are midwives that have come back? well, there's-- myself and two, apprentices, and then another woman who is the [00:30:00] daughter of one of the older midwives, Leah we all formed a new collective called Community Birth and Wellness.
And so Laura is from here. I think she was born here. I'm pretty sure she was born here. and she-- I don't-- she's lived here pretty much her whole life, and and she is about to be licensed. And Serena, who you saw on the peer review call, she got licensed six months ago, and she isn't from here, but she married...
Her husband grew up with me. Her husband is from The Farm, so she kinda married into The Farm, and, and she moved here, I think, like six months before I did. And yeah, it's been quite the journey. You know, when I was, like, in my-- when I was, like, 19, 20, I thought-- I always kinda planned to come back.
I was like, "Oh, once I have kids, I'm gonna go back 'cause I want them to be raised in community." But then, you know, life happens differently than you expect, and part of the reason I didn't come back earlier was because I have melanated daughters and I want them to be connected to their Black roots as well, [00:31:00] and so I have to make a concerted effort to do that here, whereas in Miami it was just built in, well, so Corina, I want to hear more about your practice and your plans for the future. But before we get into that, I wonder if you would be willing to talk about some of the controversies that surround The Farm. How has it been, forging your own way, because I know some of the, like you said, some of the policies and procedures had stagnated.
Some of the beliefs had crystallized into something that didn't quite resonate any longer. Ina May have been called out for some statements that don't quite align, and I just wonder because you have done so much personal work and evolution, like how has it been bridging that, arriving there, and obviously you're part of the revolution, of the new guard.
But what's it been like to maybe have some pushback or address the challenges? Yeah. It's been challenging for sure. Thankfully Leah's mother, Deborah Flowers, she's from [00:32:00] the old guard I guess you could say, but she's younger than the, the rest of them.
She was very warm and welcoming from the beginning. She was the one that really encouraged me and I didn't learn this till later, but she stepped back right around the time that I stepped in to give me space because there was definitely a sense of scarcity, and I think that is one of the old farm things was that vow of poverty, the mentality like that is not something we wanna keep.
But that still nevertheless, remains to be a thing, I think particularly for those that are in their 70s that are, you know, were the founding members. I-- you know, when I first came back, I had, this sign that was from my Miami office that said, "Midwives for Black Lives." And so once I got my license, it took several months just, to get my license, and, I sent an email to all the midwives and I was like, "Hey, I got my license," and blah, blah, blah, and can...
And I was like, "Oh, also I have [00:33:00] this sign, like I would love to put it up in the clinic," and nobody responded. And so a couple weeks later, I wrote again and I said, "Hey, I'd really love to put this up." I'm like, " I think this is important, and especially considering some of the comments that Ina May said at the Texas conference, I really think this is like a very small but, but significant step that we can make to show that we care and, that we're allies."
And and then one of the midwives responded and she was like, "Yeah, sure." She's like, "Good luck, like if you can find a spot for it or something, ha." And and basically there, there's like one midwife that just has been really, really difficult, and Well, Deborah has been always an ally and always had my back, and I'm so grateful for her, and the rest, were in different shades of like being complicit with this one older midwife.
So it kind of felt like maybe when Ina May left, this other person, and I don't wanna call out names, but [00:34:00] she kinda took that spot maybe. And I remember saying to Deborah, like after being treated poorly a couple times by this woman, I'm like, "The Farm culture was always like that you call people out on their shit, like you, you're direct, and like why has nobody ever called her out?"
And, and she was like, "That's a really good question." So anyway, I, I have this onboarding meeting. It's a Zoom meeting 'cause it's COVID, and, and I had actually completely forgotten about it, and then Debra's texting me like, "Are you coming on?" I was like, "Oh, shit." So I get on, and the first thing that happens is I get, like, this woman says to me like, "Who do you think you are coming in here and telling us how to practice?"
And I was like, "What are you talking about?" And then it became clear what she was talking about, and I was like, I'm like, "How does me asking to put up a sign in the office how is that telling you how to practice? Like, that doesn't make any sense." And then, you know, we went back and forth around, Ina May, and, and I was like, "Listen, " maybe you guys [00:35:00] aren't aware of what a big deal this, that was," but, like, there was, like, an In- Ina ain't shit hashtag going around. And, and I'm like, "And I don't feel like I have to cancel everything that Ina May has done." Like, she has changed the landscape of birth globally, and in a good way for the most part.
But she messed up, And it was also, like, a huge lost opportunity, being the person that she was and what she could have said. It was just such a huge missed opportunity. And so, yeah. So I was just like, "You know, I think there's a way that we can hold people accountable without trashing them and just canceling them completely."
And this midwife was like, "Well, you know, it is true, like, nutrition plays a role." And I'm like, "Yeah, well then we have to talk about food deserts." You can't just be like, " They eat shitty" or whatever. And then I was like, it was just me and her, and so I was like how does anyone..." I'm like, "You all are silent.
Like, how does everyone else feel?" I'm like, "This is really important to me." And I was, on the verge of tears. And [00:36:00] and then some people spoke up and were, uh, one of-- Yeah, they were like, "I, I share your concern, Corina." And so yeah, that was my welcoming meeting. It's a big deal, Corina.
I mean, it's a big deal. Like, I just feel the weight that fell onto your shoulders. Having lived outside The Farm, you had this vista, this greater perspective that is just obvious, but to that community it really wasn't. And for you to have to bridge that pushback, hold that space, it's kind of really a big deal.
Yeah. Yeah, especially because of where I was mentally at that time too. Yeah, yeah. And I just-- I listened to that-- You had sent the link for the podcast about the postpartum bipolar. and I was like, "Oh, that was me." I ended up being diagnosed with bipolar years later- Mm ... after doing different medications and stuff, and so.
Yeah, so I was navigating That's so much ... all that and yeah, just-- And then there was like, there was a breech birth that I did that they, you know, they're kind [00:37:00] of the older guard. This is part of why we started our new collective is like we wanna ho- uphold that part of the legacy. There's things that- Right
we don't wanna uphold but the-- what we were just talking about, but like that, twin and breeches and they're just... I think, you know, when you, when you're in your 70s or 80s, risk, you're more risk-averse, and that's totally acceptable. Yeah. Like, it makes sense, but just, like, don't put that on us.
We're younger. Right. We're younger. Right. We're not even young. Right. We're younger. And- Right ... and anyway, so like, yeah, that was a big deal 'cause I did that birth, and they found out about it, and, I had to defend myself in front of all of them. but here we are, like I I was able to bring Serena through.
She was working first with that other midwife and then with me, and Laura's about to get her license. And for me, it was like this, this is, this just happened in, February. We kind of gave our-- We sent our letter and let them know [00:38:00] we're starting this new thing. And so we're both on The Farm.
We have a different space. And, yeah, it, it-- for me, this was, like, the moment I've been waiting for since I got here. For them, it was like they were finally, like, to the point where they're getting licensed, and they're like, "Oh, yeah, I really don't wanna deal with this." 'Cause I just kind of separated and worked.
I never really worked with that particular midwife. I just kind of kept my distance, and, I dealt with her.
I don't know. Maybe it's out of place, but I feel the need to, like, thank you. No, I mean, really. I mean- Yeah ... I really, I-- It's not a small thing what you have done. Yeah. It makes me teary, honestly. Yeah. No, it- Because there is such tremendous value in what The Farm has done for all of midwifery, and there was also harm.
Yeah. And so for you to be able to hold the good with the bad and usher in something is really special, and I don't [00:39:00] even, I don't even know all the things that you're doing, but I just... thank you. Yeah. Yeah, and obviously, I didn't do it alone, and I'm so grateful for my- Sure.
There's always a team, but Yeah ... like- I mean, I feel like I did feel alone in a lot of it just because They weren't practicing midwives. They were apprentices. They didn't have as much say. It was just me and this other woman. She's the only one left that's still practicing, and she's in her late 70s.
I don't wanna be practicing when I'm that old. That's- Yeah ... part of why I started Motherfly as well is for that, to be able to serve and midwife women in different ways. Mm. But there was a lot of really challenging points along the way, and one of the things that was hard for me was that I would I would speak to these other midwives that were all retired about whatever issue, and they would all in kind of in preparation for a meeting that we were all gonna have, and they would be like, "Oh, yeah, yeah, I agree.
I got your back," blah, blah, blah, and then in the [00:40:00] meeting, it was, like, only one, which was Deborah, would stand her ground, and the rest would just turn into accomplices or I guess they were just intimidated by her and Yeah, so it's... i'm glad that we made it through, and I think one of the main issues and this is not just within midwifery on The Farm.
I was talking to this other guy in the community, and he's "Oh, I call that founder's syndrome," but it's like this- Yeah ... unwillingness to pass the baton. Yeah, I call it founderitis. Oh, yeah, founderitis.
Yeah. Yeah. Same thing, yeah. Mm-hmm. But we have this we have this, this thing called the Sanctuary Summit. We had our third year. It's a beautiful festival. It's here in the spring, and it's really, like, the life of everything that we want to be here, and so there's always a, a birth panel as part of it.
It's a festival. It's got, you know, music and workshops all around sustainability and communal living and that kind of thing. And so this time we had a panel, and I had, I think it was three or, three or four elder- no, it was four elders and [00:41:00] then the four of us that, that founded Community Birth and Wellness.
Wow. And, and I was moderating the panel, and the topic was modern spiritual midwifery. And so- Wow ... I had this idea, like, just before it was happening, that here we are, we were gonna be passing the mic. And so- Mm-hmm ... as I introduced them, I'm like, "Okay, so we're gonna-- when you pass the mic, I want you to imagine that you're passing the baton with all of your- Mm
care, with all of your blessings, with all of your wisdom. And, you know, if you're receiving the mic that you receive it with humility and care and grace." And so it was just kinda like this spontaneous, passing of the torch. Imagery, yeah. Beautiful. Imagery. Yeah. And, I was like, "You know, it's not always easy.
It's kinda like birth. It hurts. It's painful. It's complicated. But you know, it's always worth it." And, I hope that, you know, that's part of the legacy that we change. That, you know, we're, we're really like... cause we were getting a [00:42:00] lot of, like, emails from different people all the time. Like, I just had a student from Yale come and spend a month, and, uh, a National Geographic photographer.
And for a while, I think nobody was just-- people were just ignoring the emails. Like the, the, you know, the older generation, they were just not even responding. Mm. So- Mm ... so yeah, we really wanna be open. We really wanna be collaborative. We really wanna be part of the solution for the maternal health crisis that exists.
And, we actually-- I made a c- a really cool connection with this woman at a Juneteenth festival recently who's, running for the mayor of a local city. And she then, uh, came out to The Farm 'cause I was showing a screening of this Women in Power interview that I was on recently. And, and then we had lunch, and she is l- she's putting us in front of-- She got a meeting with us in front of some funders to present an initiative which is [00:43:00] modeled after s- SBJN, the Southern Birth Justice Network, and their mobile unit.
So, to be able to go into, underserved areas and provide pre- and postnatal care and- very cool. Yeah. So hopefully- Corina, so much- ... yeah. So much is happening. Well, is it okay if we link that that interview in the show notes here? Absolutely, yeah. Okay, great. Well, so,
there's a lot of potential in front of you, both personally, obviously with your incredible new founding of Motherfly, and then at The Farm and what you're leading there. And I just wonder if you would share what your vision is for the future, what's coming, how people can follow you or get involved, and, and what's happening.
Yeah. Well, as far as Motherfly, I, I-- my main two offerings are a nine-month group coaching container called Motherfly: Thrive Beyond Burnout, and that is really intended to [00:44:00] hold mothers particularly, uh, uh, really at any point in their mothering, 'cause I've had people do it that had adult children, and then I've had people do it that were pregnant.
So, but, you know, those first- Mm-hmm ... three, four years are, Kind of at the heart of matrescence. Are you familiar with that word? Yeah, you are. Yeah. So- Yeah, we'll give a definition. Yeah, please. Yeah, so I discovered that during my postpartum journey with Amaya, and it, it just gave me a whole new lens for what I was experiencing.
And so matrescence, it was a term coined by Donna Raphael back in the 1970s, same woman who coined the term doula. And here we are 50 years later, and, and a lot of people, even people in birth work, even midwives, have never heard of this w- word. But it's kind of like, uh, adolescence, right? Has a, has a similar root.
So it's all the, the physical, the emotional, the psychological, the hormonal, the spiritual, the social changes that happen when we become mothers, [00:45:00] and all of the neuro- neuroplasticity and the brain changes, which we're really just beginning to understand, are so fascinating to me because they help me understand my experience so much deeper.
so it's really, that Motherfly program is in support of that journey of matrescence. I think that, and we know, like, you know, the, the burnout rates in mothers are, like, above 90%. One in five moms is experiencing a, a mental health disorder. Black mothers are dying- So many are medicated, and then we have fa- So many are medicated.
20- Yeah. Yeah. We're talking, like, I mean, this is 20% of the birthing population, and we have to begin to wonder what's the real problem. And, Yeah ... and so my programs really get at the heart of that, and it, it brings together my, you know, my decades of experience as a midwife with embodied movement and feminine power, transformational facilitation, matrescence, [00:46:00] and, motherhood studies.
So I recently, that's my last certification is as a motherhood studies practitioner. And, motherhood studies just basically gives you that sociological lens. And so that we can see, like, you know, it's actually not mothers that are the problem here. It's, it's what, what's the, what is the water that we're swimming in?
And, and so without... I think that, first of all, we need acknowledgement and we need language, and that's what I love so much about matrescence. but we also need support. And we, I think that we're in this crisis point as mothers because of, of huge forces, patriarchal, capitalistic forces, But with the right support, motherhood is not meant to be a crisis.
It's, uh, I really believe that it is it's, it's an enrichment program. It's a tr- it's a transformational experience. And, that's the hidden potential of matrescence, is that it actually, with the [00:47:00] right support and the right guidance, it can lead you to your most powerful, most embodied self.
And that's- Hmm ... what happened to me in terms- Yeah ... of my experience of, of motherhood and, and all the challenges that I had to go through. But, like, it brought me to a whole new purpose. And I think for me, one of the most painful parts of my period of, of depression was like feeling like I didn't have purpose.
I didn't know what my purpose was. I knew from when I was a little girl what my purpose was, and all of a sudden it was like, I can't be a midwife anymore. This is way too much. Like, I can't do it. It's not sustainable." Mm. And so, you know, having, is having somebody to guide you through these archetypal energies and help you see the, the water that you're swimming in and g- and be a mirror for you.
And then not just that, but it's a, it's a group program, so there's community. And so I'm launching my next cohort in September. And then I have an ongoing membership group called the Matrescent Circle [00:48:00] that I have been doing since 2021. , yeah, actually when I first moved to The Farm, it was 2020.
In 2021, I did-- In 2021 and 2022, I did two global summits, uh, where I brought together, like, 20, 30 speakers from several different countries around the world to talk about- Mm ... all things birth and motherhood and postpartum. And, and in that- Mm ... in doing those interviews, I realized I really liked to do interviews, and so I started a podcast.
Wow. Yay. And- That's awesome ... and out of the summit was one of the, the people, the participants were like, "We want a community." So I started the Matrescent Circle. So in many ways The Farm has been that chrysalis that I needed. Um- Mm. I'm still not at the point where- Like an incubator. Yeah. Yeah. I'm still not at the point where I would-- where I'm making my, the majority of my income from Motherfly.
That's, that is my goal. That is my vision. And to do midwifery less, so that I can-- Because I like to travel and I like to-- I wanna be a [00:49:00] digital nomad like you. Mm-hmm. And so, um- That's awesome. But all of my programs, there's always a group component, and that's one of the things that I do here at Community Birth and Wellness, is we have a monthly prenatal group.
so, and then I have a postpartum group that I've been doing for, like, 10 years. Because, you know, just like when we think of, like, a caterpillar turning into a butterfly, they have to, like, completely dissolve, disintegrate, and turn into this, like- Yeah ... mush. And so the thing- Such amazing imagery. Yes.
That's it. Right. Yes. Yes. And so the, the thing that creates the safety for that dis- dissolution or whatever, dissolving, is, is the structure of the chrysalis, the safety and the structure of the chrysalis, right? Beautiful. And so for mothers, the village is our chrysalis. And I always, one of my, my s- my Motherfly sayings is, "It takes a village to raise a mother."
Mm ... because we, we really do, we need community not just for the [00:50:00] practical "Can you watch my kid? Can you get me some, stuff from the store?" But also just for growing ourselves. The, for being a compassionate presence, for being somebody that can say, "Hey I see s- this potential in you."
because often we don't see our own gifts because they're so natural to us, and we need other people to mirror that back to us. As well as point out the areas where we might need to grow ourselves. Beautiful. So clear, so succinct. Everyone can get that imagery. That's just epic. I know. Thank you for that.
I love it. Like- I was ... you've hit on a goldmine here. Like, keep pushing this. I wanna see this be a global phenomenon. This is a beautiful, beautiful offering. Mm. Thank you. Yeah. I I want- So exciting ... I really I want that too. I want, I want matrescence to be a household word. I want- Mm ... Motherfly to be something like a word like the supermom but it ha- Right
completely different meaning, completely different values. Completely different. Yeah. Yeah. The [00:51:00] values is the big difference that you have instilled this much more holistic, realistic reality. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and- Lena, that's so exciting. Mm. Thank you. Yeah. I'm ex- I'm excited. I'm excited to make some money.
Yeah. Well- Seriously, like I've been doing this- ... that's part of it, isn't it? Yes ... I've been working on this for a while, so. Yes. And I love it.
I absolutely love it. But yeah, I guess I just need to find the right people that, you know- You're through, you're through the chrysalis stage. You're ready to, to take flight, right? So that's- Yeah ... that's what we need to do. Well, in the interest of that, where can people follow you? How can they refer clients?
How, how do we get involved? Yeah. You can find me at motherflymom.com. And I'm on social media. I'm back on social media. I was banned, and so I was off for, like, six months, but I'm back. Banned by children or the algorithm? The algorithm, I think. Yeah. Oh, gosh. I think I was, I was hacked, and then I was banned, and I've been fighting with Meta for months, and I finally- Oh my God
gave up and just started a new account. But, so I'm kind of starting over as far as my [00:52:00] social media reach. But, I'm @motherfly.tribe on Instagram and Corina Fitch on Facebook and Motherfly Tribe- Okay ... on TikTok. And I also have- Okay ... a podcast. It's called Mother Tongue. Yes. Let's link that.
It's about reclaiming motherhood from the patriarchy. So, Mm. Yeah. Yes. I'd love to have you on it if you, if you have the time. Yes. For sure. But yeah, Mother Tongue is just conversations with all types of, moms and birth workers, often birth workers, but sometimes it's authors, other podcasters, people that are doing work that somehow impacts and empowers mothers.
And you know, what I, what I realized shortly, you know, after Amaya was born and as I was giving birth to Motherfly, was that I remembered, in your advanced midwifery skills, you talked about this triangle of, like, why people get into birth, either for the baby, the mother, or for themselves, right?
Mm-hmm. And I, and I remember thinking about it. I was like, [00:53:00] and when I first started, I would say it was for the babies. I was very into the babies. And then I, it, then I became into the mothers. And when I thought about Motherfly and how I could continue to midwife mothers in this different way, I realized that what I really, really love about midwifery is not just childbirth, but mother birth.
And- Mm ... it's that transformation of identity that happens when women become mothers, whether it's for the first time or the ninth time. You know, every baby- Mm ... brings that, that process up again. You enter a new labyrinth of matrescence. And and I think that our culture, does a so-so job at birthing babies and a terrible job at birthing mothers.
And, um- Mm ... and so that's- Yes. That is- ... my vision. Corina, thank you for holding your vision, for birthing your vision through all the adversity so that everyone can benefit from your wisdom and knowledge. It's been an absolute pleasure today. Thank you so much. Thank you for [00:54:00] having me.